Brown fined $1.6 million after government investigation

[JayTris07]

https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Report_Brown_fined_1_6_million_after_government_in vestigation_123

[Psychotic Parakeet]

A shining example as an Eclipse award winner for the 2018 Outstanding Trainer to boot too. :ThmbDown:

[The_Turf_Monster]

$1.6MM for 150 employees? Whoa

[RunForTheRoses]

Here's the original article:

https://www.saratogian.com/news/labor-investigation-targets-area-racing-trainer-brown/article_c2d59daa-7cb7-11e9-99e5-8bba3a1bee86.html

[theiman]

Shouldnt his horses be forced to scratch until he makes good on the money owed. Isnt that what is done if a trainer is in arrears with the feed, vet or blacksmith?

[Someday Silent]

The next time someone whines about how "we just can't find Americans to doooo theeese jooooobssss"... well, Chad Brown is one of the reasons why.

$1.6 MILLION could feed, house, and insure alot of Americans.

[thaskalos]

A thread about such a serious issue deserves a more appropriate title...IMO.

[Suff]

The entire back side business is guilty of this. Heavy wears the crown Brown.

[elhelmete]

The entire back side business is guilty of this. Heavy wears the crown Brown.

You got that right. I know enough about employment and payroll rules in CA and NY and this is gonna be the tip of the iceberg.

[riskman]

Nine replies to such a serious matter. What the hell is going on in this business of horse racing?

[lamboguy]

how do you fall behind $1.6 with the type of money he makes

[PaceAdvantage]

how do you fall behind $1.6 with the type of money he makesWho said he did?

The fine was 1.6M. Nothing was said about how much the employees were owed. Nothing was said about how much of the fine is punitive in nature.

You guys sure jump to a lot of conclusions based on a catchy headline.

[biggestal99]

Who said he did?

The fine was 1.6M. Nothing was said about how much the employees were owed. Nothing was said about how much of the fine is punitive in nature.

You guys sure jump to a lot of conclusions based on a catchy headline.

Comn PA here is a better article

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/chad-brown-must-pay-1-6m-for-federal-labor-violations/

10 employees owed at least 10k and the top non paid employee 27k

He is a chronic cheat, making people work long hours for low pay.

150 employees are owed money.

Blank time sheets.

It’s really bad. Just pay the help.

Allan

[thaskalos]

I wonder...do the LESS successful trainers pay their help any better?

[alydar]

As has already been said, I think this type of abuse is very wide spread in the industry. You don't have to be Columbo and any detective for that matter to see that workers on the back stretch are being taken advantage of.

[Tom]

He should be banned until all money owed is paid.
Didn't notice it in the article, but is he behind on his vet bills?

If you can't work by the rules, you should not be working in the industry. No sympathy.

Byk may have a guest today to discuss this in more depth...not sure what hour.

[clicknow]

Wow. These actions by him and his operation are so abusive.
Forget about suspended. We don't need people like this in the business at all........ever.

[PaceAdvantage]

I wonder...do the LESS successful trainers pay their help any better?Oh most definitely...:lol:

Remember Rick Dutrow? Many of his fines were due to administrative and paperwork ****ups...not drug overages...so you can imagine how widespread this particular problem might be in the industry for the folks toiling in the backstretch. This is probably an OH SHIT moment for a lot of operations out there.

Maybe Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel can run another feel-good story on racing...only this time, it's about the human connections.

[Tom]

Can racing do anything without tripping over it's own feet?
They might as well send a letter requesting governmental oversight. :rolleyes:

[clicknow]

Can racing do anything without tripping over it's own feet?
They might as well send a letter requesting governmental oversight. :rolleyes:

How can you not trip, when the rug that you're sweeping so much under has become lumpy and unnavigatable?

[Racetrack Playa]

Wow. These actions by him and his operation are so abusive.
Forget about suspended. We don't need people like this in the business at all........ever.
:rant:ban him and his elk.maybe he needs to do some time in PRISON, I think so.

[elhelmete]

It boils down to this. What I'm about to lay out is based on by 20 years experience managing teams of people including several who are basically just like the backstretch workers in racing.

(DISCLAIMER: there may be something I don't know about certain industries being treated differently, like agricultural workers or some classification that may apply to backstretch workers)

You can't pay non-exempt (hourly wage) employees like grooms and some assistants, a flat day rate. Why? A lot of reasons. One that matters a lot is that at some point on the time clock, a day rate averages out to less than minimum wage, a big no-no.

What we do (common and open practice in my line of work), is pay these people minimum wage and for all actual hours worked. In most cases, when workload can be properly managed, everyone ends up getting close to what a "day rate" would be, give or take a few bucks either side. Sometimes I end up paying a ton of overtime. SOmetimes employees make a little less than they assumed. But the thing that keeps everyone out of trouble is that everyone puts in actual hours worked, and breaks, on their timecards.

We know groom work is hardly 9-5 with a tidy lunch break in the middle.

Therefore, a racing operation has a gargantuan job to do to manage their backstretch employees if they want to make sure everyone gets paid properly AND there's no un-approved overtime.

It's a ton of work. In my business, and I'm the top person in my department, payroll takes up a frigging inordinately huge chunk of my time.

Here's how it goes off the rails in MY line of work, and maybe it will illustrate how much worse it could be in racing.

Say I hire 20 production assistants on a show. They all make min wage and the schedules on average will yield them each, say, $180/day before taxes. This includes OT rates for work over 8 hours (which in my line of work is always assumed, as it is in racing). We bend over backward to make them understand that they get paid for all/only hours worked, not a flat.

Now they go out and work for a week. Typically:

14 of the 20 will be pretty much working their expected hours and hit their "day rate"

3 or 4 will somehow end up working fewer hours and will make under their "day rate" and be perplexed, sometimes OK, sometimes angry. We explain it over and over. We remind them they cannot put fake hours on their timecards to get more $.

The last few will be the trouble-makers. They will claim they were never explicitly told to take a meal break (they get +1 hour of pay as a penalty). They will claim they were never explicitly told to wrap for the evening (and accrue OT until they claim they were). They screw around with their timecards in subtle ways that game the overtime pay. And officially questioning a timecard is almost always a losing battle for management...and you just don't want to engage that battle.

It's not an excuse for a trainer to be lax in this regard. But it's no small task to be 100% right on payroll across all those jurisdictions AND it's pretty much guaranteed that within a week's batch of workers' timecards you could probably find a problem in like 2 seconds, that can't be simply explained away. Courts will side with the employees almost all the time in these cases.

[showonly]

He falsified documents to defraud. Are the criminal charges and suspension forthcoming.

[alydar]

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/233824/trainer-brown-to-pay-1-6-million-in-back-pay-fines?fbclid=IwAR050OSAs6bxBYDMqIc6hyjDP2Zc2-ZVgI3e-4vCBcFErOf6ZG7u7jcrLEQ

This article breaks down the violations and related costs pretty well.

[showonly]

According to the consent judgment’s itemized list of Brown’s 150 employees who are owed money, at least 10 of them are owed more than $10,000 in combined back wages and liquidated damages. The highest combined amount owed to an individual worker is $27,911.




No big deal I'm sure none of them NEEDED the money they EARNED. Suspension and Criminal charges to follow.

[Secondbest]

I would like to hear from some of the trainers and ex- trainers who post here. Maybe they could shed some light on how widespread this is.

[classhandicapper]

I wonder how much a trainer like Chad Brown actually nets after all expenses. The purses are huge and the daily rates are high, but unless you get to see all the day to day bills, insurance costs, required paperwork etc.. it's hard to make a guess.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised by something like this from a smaller trainer trying to make ends meet, but for someone with a stable like this it sounds more like mismanagement from someone below him than trying to screw people or lack of funds. I have no idea though.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I wonder how much a trainer like Chad Brown actually nets after all expenses. The purses are huge and the daily rates are high, but unless you get to see all the day to day bills, insurance costs, required paperwork etc.. it's hard to make a guess.
.

Large-scale operations typically make a very modest amount on the day rate and crush it on their 10% cut (pure profit outside of any stable/asst trainer stakes). In addition, someone like Chad Brown most likely receives stallion shares gratis on his really successful horses.

[delsully]

:rant:ban him and his elk.maybe he needs to do some time in PRISON, I think so.

Why ban his elk? He’s a monster on turf...



...I’ll show myself out. :pout:

[Jeff P]

It boils down to this. What I'm about to lay out is based on by 20 years experience managing teams of people including several who are basically just like the backstretch workers in racing....

...Therefore, a racing operation has a gargantuan job to do to manage their backstretch employees if they want to make sure everyone gets paid properly AND there's no un-approved overtime.

It's a ton of work. In my business, and I'm the top person in my department, payroll takes up a frigging inordinately huge chunk of my time...

I agree with your comments about payroll being a ton of work.

Back in the day (mid 1980's to mid 1990's) I worked as an accounting manager for a company that had several hundred employees. Among other things, I did payroll twice a month. (And yes, it was a ton of work.)

I'm guessing being a trainer if you have a smaller string of horses (5 to 10 or so) means you can be a lot more hands on. You probably don't need an army in the way of hired help.

I'm guessing a govt agency conducting a payroll audit of a smaller barn isn't as likely to net significant dollars vs. the same govt agency conducting a payroll audit of a barn with several hundred horses and a small army of hired help.

One of the things I dislike about the way the game has been headed for a while is that smaller independent barns keep getting smaller or even disappearing. (Imo, in large part because they're finding it really tough to compete with the mega barns.)

That said --

After reading about this, a random thought popped into my head.

Does anyone else see this as a potential tipping point?

Is it possible that other mega barns will face similar payroll audits? If so, how likely is it that similar violations are found and similar penalties levied?

Could this be a catalyst that causes mega barns to start downsizing?

If that were to happen, is there any possibility the pendulum starts to swing the other way? --

With the result being that smaller independent barns begin making a comeback?



-jp

.

[showonly]

I wonder how much a trainer like Chad Brown actually nets after all expenses. The purses are huge and the daily rates are high, but unless you get to see all the day to day bills, insurance costs, required paperwork etc.. it's hard to make a guess.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised by something like this from a smaller trainer trying to make ends meet, but for someone with a stable like this it sounds more like mismanagement from someone below him than trying to screw people or lack of funds. I have no idea though.






Would you mind explaining how you found your way to ""mismanagment after reading the press release. I believe it used the words "sham paper work".

[showonly]

Would you mind explaining how you found your way to ""mismanagment after reading the press release. I believe it used the words "sham paper work".


Some took it upon themselves to private message to tell me I left the E off mismangement. It's 90% typing and 10% spelling that is my issue. you must have a lot of free time on your hands. thank you though you DHF.

[The_Turf_Monster]

Bottom line is I don't expect any trainer to know the details of payroll or labor law, just like I wouldn't expect any business owner or CEO to either. But I'd expect that they have a SME in place to know it

[classhandicapper]

Would you mind explaining how you found your way to ""mismanagment after reading the press release. I believe it used the words "sham paper work".

I was making an assumption that an operation as large and as important as Chad Brown’s would have accountants and other administrative assistants handling payroll, visas, insurance, and other employee issues.

No matter what, if the reports are accurate he’s ultimately responsible and it’s a terrible situation.

it’s just hard for me to comprehend how a guy that’s as successful as him is knowingly cheating employees that are in need of those thousands.

[showonly]

I was making an assumption that an operation as large and as important as Chad Brown’s would have accountants and other administrative assistants handling payroll, visas, insurance, and other employee issues.

No matter what, if the reports are accurate he’s ultimately responsible and it’s a terrible situation.

it’s just hard for me to comprehend how a guy that’s as successful as him is knowingly cheating employees that are in need of those thousands.




Are you really struggling to understand human greed?

[bob60566]

I was making an assumption that an operation as large and as important as Chad Brown’s would have accountants and other administrative assistants handling payroll, visas, insurance, and other employee issues.

No matter what, if the reports are accurate he’s ultimately responsible and it’s a terrible situation.

it’s just hard for me to comprehend how a guy that’s as successful as him is knowingly cheating employees that are in need of those thousands.

This might help K Cox. on Twitter

To put this in proper context, during this time his horses earned approximately $60.8 million, of which he gets about 11%(pre-tax). Additionally, there's a $125 day rate for an estimated 180 horses($8.2 million) which is supposed to cover all training

[taxicab]

In addition, someone like Chad Brown most likely receives stallion shares gratis on his really successful horses.
^
This.
Stallion Shares equals big scratch.....

[elhelmete]

Bottom line is I don't expect any trainer to know the details of payroll or labor law, just like I wouldn't expect any business owner or CEO to either. But I'd expect that they have a SME in place to know it

I vigorously disagree. "Not Knowing" is the source of many, many high profile problems.

He needs to know enough to tell his assistants responsible for the day-to-day what he expects from them: accuracy, transparency etc.

[thaskalos]

I was making an assumption that an operation as large and as important as Chad Brown’s would have accountants and other administrative assistants handling payroll, visas, insurance, and other employee issues.

No matter what, if the reports are accurate he’s ultimately responsible and it’s a terrible situation.

it’s just hard for me to comprehend how a guy that’s as successful as him is knowingly cheating employees that are in need of those thousands.

You were complaining some days ago, because of the "one-sidedness" of the recent 'investigative' articles about this game. In this case...is anyone preventing Chad Brown from answering his phone, and presenting the "other side"?

[AMPHAR]

“Not Knowing” blah!

Man-up and run your business and treat your employees fairly. I seriously hope he doesn’t play the not knowing card.

No excuse to not have the overhead in place for an operation that size.

[elhelmete]

“Not Knowing” blah!

Man-up and run your business and treat your employees fairly. I seriously hope he doesn’t play the not knowing card.

No excuse to not have the overhead in place for an operation that size.

I agree.

Part of this too is setting the expectation that even the employees on the lowest rung will be expected to account for their time accurately, knowing that in exchange they will be paid fairly.

In my world, where I do hire a lot of people at that low level, that sometimes means my managers have to hold the hand of the least intelligent ones to make sure it happens.

That said...even on my tightest projects I'm certain that someone with an axe to grind could find problems.

[Trips]

BTW I have always paid salary and have never heard of backside workers being hourly.

[Suff]

Some took it upon themselves to private message to tell me I left the E off mismangement.

This is how you distinguish between a human and a non-human. Humans are not bothered by typo's and misspellings.

[Fager Fan]

BTW I have always paid salary and have never heard of backside workers being hourly.


Yes, a long tradition of paying $X by the horse, and it's not legal. The trainer will get away with that if he has time cards that ultimately prove when you do the math that the employee didn't drop under minimum wage or went over 40 hours.

Right now, most trainers are considering their employees either as independent contractors or salaried employees. Again, illegal except for maybe the assistant trainers (salary) or exercise riders (independent contractors if they also ride for others). Definitely illegal for the grooms and hot walkers. They're hourly employees, and as such are due mandatory breaks every X hours and overtime.

I think there are about 8-10 big-name trainers who are all about to pay the piper on this issue, so Brown won't be alone for long.

The only trainer I've ever heard of who has a time clock is Lukas. Can't verify it, but that's what I heard.

[clicknow]

it sounds more like mismanagement from someone below him than trying to screw people or lack of funds. I have no idea though.

Throwing "the little people" under the bus seems to be a popular choice when desperately seeking an excuse..........

Once abuses reach the level of federal investigation, and don't pass muster, its because the practices are well-entrenched .... and ongoing.

If somebody is the head guy, and doesn't have enough of a grasp on what is going on, it just makes them look worse when they try to come off as clueless, and it's pretty cowardly to throw "the underlings" under the bus.

I'm amazed at people who are "going there."

[clicknow]

“Not Knowing” blah!

Man-up and run your business and treat your employees fairly. I seriously hope he doesn’t play the not knowing card.

No excuse to not have the overhead in place for an operation that size.

Thank you.

[clicknow]

Bottom line is I don't expect any trainer to know the details of payroll or labor law, just like I wouldn't expect any business owner or CEO to either.

Um..........what?

You think somebody gets to level of CEO and doesn't know jack about payroll or labor laws?

:bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

Another negative thread about racing that somehow attracts people out of the woodwork, who don't post much for years, but are suddenly nonstop chatty cathys with TONS to say...weird how that works.

Well, not really. I know what the jig is...and it's getting old.

[elhelmete]

Another negative thread about racing that somehow attracts people out of the woodwork, who don't post much for years, but are suddenly nonstop chatty cathys with TONS to say...weird how that works.

Well, not really. I know what the jig is...and it's getting old.

huh?

[fastfasterfastest]

Another negative thread about racing that somehow attracts people out of the woodwork, who don't post much for years, but are suddenly nonstop chatty cathys with TONS to say...weird how that works.

Well, not really. I know what the jig is...and it's getting old.


So now people aren't allowed to have an opinion? It shouldn't matter what brings people out of the "woodwork". Everyone's entitled to an opinion, whether you agree with that opinion is solely on you, but bashing people for speaking out is ridiculous.

[lamboguy]

Who said he did?

The fine was 1.6M. Nothing was said about how much the employees were owed. Nothing was said about how much of the fine is punitive in nature.

You guys sure jump to a lot of conclusions based on a catchy headline.from what i just read, 90% of the money was what was owed in backwages to 150 different employees. the other 10% comprise the amount of fines and penalties over a 3 year period.

i do agree with you though that the penalties should have been a lot higher on this particular case.

[Tom]

Paying your employees is not rocket science. Millions of small businesses do it every day.

What leeway do you suppose Chad allows his employees to not do all that their jobs require?

[classhandicapper]

You were complaining some days ago, because of the "one-sidedness" of the recent 'investigative' articles about this game. In this case...is anyone preventing Chad Brown from answering his phone, and presenting the "other side"?

I would like to know the full story because I have no idea how it all works these days. I know how it was for me in the late 70s when I was a hotwalker for trainer David Sazer at Aqueduct for a summer job.

I had to be there at 6:00am. My day was done when the training schedule for that day was done. Sometimes that meant I was done at 10:30am and sometimes that meant later. Once or twice a week it was my turn to help with the afternoon feeding. So after the morning rounds I hitched a ride in the back of a truck with the horses that were going to Belmont to race, bet the daily double, and then hitched my way back in time for feeding. If we shipped out of town I sometimes rode with the horses and either stayed overnight on the backstretch of the out of town track or came back much later that day. The job was 7 days a week. I can only recall being given 1 day off over 3 months, but maybe it was 2. I got a flat weekly salary no matter how many hours I worked. It was basically the same deal for everyone in the barn as far as I know. I assume it's different now, but I surely haven't got the foggiest idea how it works for a major outfit.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Paying your employees is not rocket science. Millions of small businesses do it every day.

What leeway do you suppose Chad allows his employees to not do all that their jobs require?

My exact reaction. With his scale, CB could easily absorb the cost of a payroll service, such as Paychex. If there was/is confusion around hours worked, install a biometric-based time and attendance system. Again, the costs of such a system would be immaterial to his operation. With these two systems in place, no more issues.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I would like to know the full story because I have no idea how it all works these days. I know how it was for me in the late 70s when I was a hotwalker for trainer David Sazer at Aqueduct for a summer job.

I had to be there at 6:00am. My day was done when the training schedule for that day was done. Sometimes that meant I was done at 10:30am and sometimes that meant later. Once or twice a week it was my turn to help with the afternoon feeding. So after the morning rounds I hitched a ride in the back of a truck with the horses that were going to Belmont to race, bet the daily double, and then hitched my way back in time for feeding. If we shipped out of town I sometimes rode with the horses and either stayed overnight on the backstretch of the out of town track or came back much later that day. The job was 7 days a week. I can only recall being given 1 day off over 3 months, but maybe it was 2. I got a flat weekly salary no matter how many hours I worked. It was basically the same deal for everyone in the barn as far as I know. I assume it's different now, but I surely haven't got the foggiest idea how it works for a major outfit.

Unless the law was different in the 1970s, this was not a salary/exempt eligible position, meaning you should have been paid hourly.

[clicknow]

Another negative thread about racing

I didn't really see it as another negative thread about *racing*, only a thread about one of the cheaters in racing.

Not everyone in racing is a cheater. But once those individuals are *exposed*, having a topic running on them seems like part of the penance they must pay for their bad actions. It also puts potential cheaters on notice. That "we" see them, that we monitor them, that we don't approve of them, etc.

AFAIC, the more folks who see a topic like this, the better. Paying a fine then just moving on really isn't enough (which is basically all that would usually happen, then the person disappears for while and reemerges at a later date, and often much of this just goes unnoticed.) . That happens with corporations who commit actions that are against the interests of the public good. I say they need to not just pay fines, but face the embarassment of being spotlighted.

The one thing that social media and internet does well is shine a flashlight. Sometimes, that's good and just.

[showonly]

Another negative thread about racing that somehow attracts people out of the woodwork, who don't post much for years, but are suddenly nonstop chatty cathys with TONS to say...weird how that works.

Well, not really. I know what the jig is...and it's getting old.




Does this mean that the jig is therefore up?

[PaceAdvantage]

So now people aren't allowed to have an opinion? It shouldn't matter what brings people out of the "woodwork". Everyone's entitled to an opinion, whether you agree with that opinion is solely on you, but bashing people for speaking out is ridiculous.lol

Whatever you say...

[PaceAdvantage]

I didn't really see it as another negative thread about *racing*, only a thread about one of the cheaters in racing.You shouldn't use the word "cheater." It has a whole other meaning when it comes to racing. This is not one of those cases.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Does this mean that the jig is therefore up?

I have a question for you - what's DHF stand for? Over my head.

[FantasticDan]

I have a question for you - what's DHF stand for? Over my head.
In this case I believe it is Die Hard Fans..

[Saratoga_Mike]

In this case I believe it is Die Hard Fans..

wouldn't have guessed that in a million years - thanks.

[clicknow]

You shouldn't use the word "cheater." It has a whole other meaning when it comes to racing. This is not one of those cases.

I thought about that. And know what you are saying.

However, if you cheat a certain group of people, like your employees, try to get over on them.....you don't think that might cross over to doing the same thing in *other areas*?

it's like liars. Do you think they only lie to their wives? Or do you think they might lie to others as well?

Just thinking out loud.

Somebody with a very well-anchored "sense of fairness" wouldn't cheat their employees, right?

[elhelmete]

I thought about that. And know what you are saying.

However, if you cheat a certain group of people, like your employees, try to get over on them.....you don't think that might cross over to doing the same thing in *other areas*?

it's like liars. Do you think they only lie to their wives? Or do you think they might lie to others as well?

Just thinking out loud.

Somebody with a very well-anchored "sense of fairness" wouldn't cheat their employees, right?

I would not call him a cheater in this respect.

What I didn't say explicitly in my oh-so-very-exciting (LOL) discourse on payroll is that all it takes is one or two grooms either innocently or maliciously ignorant to drop a dime to an eager labor authority or attorney. Think every barn has at least one of these types? Yep.

And then it starts rolling and gets out of control and causes a lot of collateral damage.

[showonly]

wouldn't have guessed that in a million years - thanks.




Fantastic Dan is right on.

[clicknow]

^^^ also considered somebody might have it out for him.

But heck, we've all had people try to slay you then step over your dead body to "get the corner office with the great view of the bay" and will find a way to try to find an infraction, illegality, etc. to bring you down.

The antidote to that is stay clean and develop a reputation for doing things fair n' square and on the level when it comes to laws, rules, etc..... and conduct yourself and your business accordingly. Shortcuts have a way of refluxing on you.

When your detractors can't find a "chink" to exploit, that means you've armed yourself in the best way possible way.

[elhelmete]

Unless the law was different in the 1970s, this was not a salary/exempt eligible position, meaning you should have been paid hourly.

The laws have changed quite a bit, and from state to state. It keeps the lawyers in business, that's for sure!

Here's a very plausible but simplified example of why trainers are in a really tough position, adapted from my own similar experience.

Say up until now, you pay your grooms $150 a day, flat, no matter how many hours. Now you have to comply with strict labor law and pay them hourly.

Groom A is awesome, a real team player, gets there an hour earlier than he needs to be and stays until his last animal is fed and bedded. Helps everyone else, runs errands he's not obligated to, etc. Let's say he works 12 hours a day.

Groom B is Mr. Bare Minimum. Does a fine enough job but doesn't work a minute longer than absolutely required.

If Trainer X pays them both the same hourly rate, let's say close to minimum wage, Groom A will make more than the old "day rate" due to OT. Groom B may not even make his day rate if he doesn't work enough hours. No matter what Groom A will always make more than Groom B.

So now what?

Does the trainer want to make sure everyone gets paid the same?
Does Groom B know why he makes less (he WILL find out, that's for sure), and is he a douche that will start rabble-rousing?
Does the trainer have to tell Groom A to scale back his hours so as to not accrue as much OT pay?
Does the trainer go to a system where everyone gets paid a different hourly rate?

ANy choice you (the trainer) makes in this scenario has its ups and downs, and in the end you cannot fully control what your employees will perceive and act on.

[the little guy]

The one thing that social media and internet does well is shine a flashlight. Sometimes, that's good and just.



Another thing it does is allow people completely ignorant about situations to spout off and make shameful accusations about people they know nothing about.

[Saratoga_Mike]

The laws have changed quite a bit, and from state to state. It keeps the lawyers in business, that's for sure!

Here's a very plausible but simplified example of why trainers are in a really tough position, adapted from my own similar experience.

Say up until now, you pay your grooms $150 a day, flat, no matter how many hours. Now you have to comply with strict labor law and pay them hourly.

Groom A is awesome, a real team player, gets there an hour earlier than he needs to be and stays until his last animal is fed and bedded. Helps everyone else, runs errands he's not obligated to, etc. Let's say he works 12 hours a day.

Groom B is Mr. Bare Minimum. Does a fine enough job but doesn't work a minute longer than absolutely required.

If Trainer X pays them both the same hourly rate, let's say close to minimum wage, Groom A will make more than the old "day rate" due to OT. Groom B may not even make his day rate if he doesn't work enough hours. No matter what Groom A will always make more than Groom B.

So now what?

Does the trainer want to make sure everyone gets paid the same?
Does Groom B know why he makes less (he WILL find out, that's for sure), and is he a douche that will start rabble-rousing?
Does the trainer have to tell Groom A to scale back his hours so as to not accrue as much OT pay?
Does the trainer go to a system where everyone gets paid a different hourly rate?

ANy choice you (the trainer) makes in this scenario has its ups and downs, and in the end you cannot fully control what your employees will perceive and act on.

1) You can't treat a groom as a salary exempt employee on track. At a farm, I suspect you can apply the ag exemption.

2) Honestly, I don't even see the point of your example. How is it different from running a landscaping business? Some employees work harder than others. The lazy ones are either fired or the good ones make a higher hourly rate.

3) To avoid fines, hire a reputable payroll processor and install a time and attendance system. Perhaps CB had a poor bookkeeping system. I have no idea.

[elhelmete]

1) You can't treat a groom as a salary exempt employee on track. At a farm, I suspect you can apply the ag exemption.

2) Honestly, I don't even see the point of your example. How is it different from running a landscaping business? Some employees work harder than others. The lazy ones are either fired or the good ones make a higher hourly rate.

3) To avoid fines, hire a reputable payroll processor and install a time and attendance system. Perhaps CB had a poor bookkeeping system. I have no idea.

I think you mis-read my post. I know you have to pay hourly. I am going to suspect that someone who use to get paid a flat $150 per day, day in and day out, might be confused when transitioning to hourly and if they're a jerk, might complain about it. Especially if some of his cohorts, all of whom used to get a flat $150, now make amounts commensurate with the hours they actually work.

I've always used an A+ payroll company, and way back in the day they'd play along when we would sometimes back-time someone's work hours into an hourly rate in order to fake a day rate. Often differing each day of the week! NOBODY in the reputable payroll business will do that anymore.

[Robert Fischer]

This is all way outside my competence, but hey this is what the internet is for, right?

My best guess is that the issue has been clouding around racing for a long time, in a wide-spread manner, and that Brown was selected because of his prominence in such a system and not for egregiousness. There is a market for the enforcement and standards, and that incentive will drive this.

but, like I said, this is B.S.
I don't know anything about this.

[classhandicapper]

Unless the law was different in the 1970s, this was not a salary/exempt eligible position, meaning you should have been paid hourly.

I had no clue. I wasn't there for the money. I was a teenager that loved betting on horses and wanted to see how the inside worked. It was loads of fun. The best part of it in hindsight is that Mark Casse worked in the same barn. His father owned some horses that were trained by David Sazer. We are a couple of years apart and were friendly for that summer. Even though I doubt he would remember me, he'd surely remember the horses (Papa Pia and Status). I think I even lent him "Picking Winners" :lol: I'm happy for his success.

[Saratoga_Mike]

I had no clue. I wasn't there for the money. I was a teenager that loved betting on horses and wanted to see how the inside worked. It was loads of fun. The best part of it in hindsight is that Mark Casse worked in the same barn. His father owned some horses that were trained by David Sazer. We are a couple of years apart and were friendly for that summer. Even though I doubt he would remember me, he'd surely remember the horses (Papa Pia and Status). I think I even lent him "Picking Winners" :lol: I'm happy for his success.

I understand - you weren't there for the money and it sounds like you had a great experience.

[Trips]

This is all way outside my competence, but hey this is what the internet is for, right?

but, like I said, this is B.S.
I don't know anything about this.
From what keeps getting posted it’s obvious you are not alone sir.

[clicknow]

Another thing it does is allow people completely ignorant about situations to spout off and make shameful accusations about people they know nothing about.

I made no shameful accusations.

But the United States Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division investigators, who found willful violations of the Fair Labor Standards Act at Chad C. Brown, Inc., did.

I just read the articles about their findings. ;)

Is Mr. Brown going to appeal the findings?


And sorry, I disagree with PA about not using word "cheating". Not paying your workers what they rightfully earned is "cheating" them. That makes you a cheater if you do that. ;)

[clicknow]

To avoid fines, hire a reputable payroll processor and install a time and attendance system.

I guess it's easier to keep splitting hairs and justifying things, rather than bring in professional fiduciaries who handle these things as a matter of course for many companies, LLCs, etc.

What was the part about "Collecting payment from employees for visa costs, which should be paid by the employer...." ?

[fastfasterfastest]

lol

Whatever you say...

Wow such an intellectual response. I've already taught my 7 year old about the brain capacity of a person that uses "whatever" as a rebuttal.

[jocko699]

Wow such an intellectual response. I've already taught my 7 year old about the brain capacity of a person that uses "whatever" as a rebuttal.

I see a trip in your future:pound::pound::pound::pound:

[classhandicapper]

There is a good article in the DRF about the situation.

https://www.drf.com/news/brown-agrees-pay-16-million-violating-labor-laws?type=

It sounds like the Dept of Labor is cracking down on some of the complex laws related to using immigrant labor (H-2B). Other trainers are being audited also as they try to figure out how to comply with rules they don't always understand.

[fastfasterfastest]

I see a trip in your future:pound::pound::pound::pound:

If that's the case so be it. I'm fairly new here and if having an opinion that differs from the big cheese leads to a timeout/ban, i'll gladly move on. If one person has the right to state an opinion, so should everyone else.

[RunForTheRoses]

There is a good article in the DRF about the situation.

https://www.drf.com/news/brown-agrees-pay-16-million-violating-labor-laws?type=

It sounds like the Dept of Labor is cracking down on some of the complex laws related to using immigrant labor (H-2B). Other trainers are being audited also as they try to figure out how to comply with rules they don't always understand.

From that it appears this is not uniquely Brown. Rice and Weaver are also mentioned.

[airford1]

If that's the case so be it. I'm fairly new here and if having an opinion that differs from the big cheese leads to a timeout/ban, i'll gladly move on. If one person has the right to state an opinion, so should everyone else.

First requirement here is Thick Skin.

[clicknow]

It sounds like the Dept of Labor is cracking down on some of the complex laws related to using immigrant labor (H-2B).

If you don't want illegals then that is what is necessary I guess.

" Many trainers rely on the H-2B visa program to fill positions that they claim U.S. workers do not typically want."

This will always surprise me........it was true during times of high unemployment and still true during times of low unemployment.

But if only a select group of people are WILLING to do these kinds of job, I'd say it would be beneficial all around to treat them like the valuable employees they ARE.

There's a lot of work involved taking care of horses, and I personally think what they do is very valuable work.


I still don't get the part where H-2B employees were asked to pay their own "importation" fees.

I also still don't understand the part about not "understanding" the regs. Surely an above board fiduciary company that people hire to take care of benefits and payroll, as well as attorneys, are experts who perform these services for companies and KNOW what the laws, rules and regs are? I mean, people do this for a living and they do stay abreast of the laws.

It just sounds like excuses to me........the "play dumb" excuse. I've worked in high tech where there are many H2-Bs in the corporation, they had a group who "handled all that" in human resources.


Big barns don't have attorneys or accountants or any kind of people like that???

[lamboguy]

There is a good article in the DRF about the situation.

https://www.drf.com/news/brown-agrees-pay-16-million-violating-labor-laws?type=

It sounds like the Dept of Labor is cracking down on some of the complex laws related to using immigrant labor (H-2B). Other trainers are being audited also as they try to figure out how to comply with rules they don't always understand.

it certainly looks like its not that easy to run big operation like what Brown has.
according to the article, he signed a consent decree which is a tough way to travel going forward for sure. that explains why the fines and penalties were so low on this case. if this happened to me i would immediately retire from horse racing and go into something else that the government wouldn't have hanging over my head.

[Tom]

There is a good article in the DRF about the situation.

https://www.drf.com/news/brown-agrees-pay-16-million-violating-labor-laws?type=

It sounds like the Dept of Labor is cracking down on some of the complex laws related to using immigrant labor (H-2B). Other trainers are being audited also as they try to figure out how to comply with rules they don't always understand.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Hire someone who does understand them.

Racing is not above the law. As a taxpayers, I welcome a few million bucks in the general fund from the tracks!

From the article.....
The release states that Brown signed a consent judgment May 13 agreeing to the back pay and fines. Under the judgment and a separate agreement under the Immigration and Nationality Act, Brown has agreed to pay $1.2 million in back wages,

This is not chump change. It sure looks like the CB Barn has no clue what is going on with its finances. How the hell do you NOT pay this much money??? Is he talking advantage of people here on the visas thing they will not complain?

He needs to be banned from racing until this is all settled. And criminal charges might be worth investigating. Yo can't be this incompetent. Even in racing.:rolleyes:

[jocko699]

If that's the case so be it. I'm fairly new here and if having an opinion that differs from the big cheese leads to a timeout/ban, i'll gladly move on. If one person has the right to state an opinion, so should everyone else.

In some places opinions are not rights but privileges. This is a privately owned location, not your house.

[showonly]

In some places opinions are not rights but privileges. This is a privately owned location, not your house.




Opinions are always your right. There is always the possibility that you will suffer unjust consequences for voicing your opinion.

[GMB@BP]

Unless the law was different in the 1970s, this was not a salary/exempt eligible position, meaning you should have been paid hourly.

I always got a flat weekly rate per horse I took care of Do I got a claim, it was 25 years ago, lol.

[davew]

I always got a flat weekly rate per horse I took care of Do I got a claim, it was 25 years ago, lol.

Did you work any overtime?



The groups bringing in H-2A and H-2B workers are not going to these countries and doing the recruiting directly, they go through employment agencies to fill 'slots'. What is understood by the contract worker, what was said by the employment agency, and what was understood by the US group hiring/paying are frequently not the same thing.

[GMB@BP]

Did you work any overtime?



The groups bringing in H-2A and H-2B workers are not going to these countries and doing the recruiting directly, they go through employment agencies to fill 'slots'. What is understood by the contract worker, what was said by the employment agency, and what was understood by the US group hiring/paying are frequently not the same thing.

Lets see 7x -8 to 10 hours, yea I worked some overtime.

And at the horse farm I worked at next I did 6x9, never got a penny of overtime.

I just figured its part of learning the ropes, I didnt care much. I could still afford to eat.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow such an intellectual response. I've already taught my 7 year old about the brain capacity of a person that uses "whatever" as a rebuttal.In my world, you get the response you deserve. No more, no less.

And please be more precise in the future. My response was not "whatever."

It was "Whatever you say."

Frighteningly different.

[PaceAdvantage]

If that's the case so be it. I'm fairly new here and if having an opinion that differs from the big cheese leads to a timeout/ban, i'll gladly move on. If one person has the right to state an opinion, so should everyone else.I love it when they post this type of thing. It's like a broken record. Soon will be the "i've gotten tons of PMs and emails telling me...."

When you've been around the block 20 times, you start to notice some patterns.

[Suff]

Its 4am to 8pm, 7 days a week directly caring for horses, and 24/7 watching them. Backside workers are largely indentured servants who get to live in peace and raise families.

Exceptions aside and there's many, that is a reality. Worldwide Indentured Servitude is more common than wages, but generally most agriculture work in the USA is a hybrid of indentured servitude.

My Grandfather did it. In 1909, in certain Irish counties Catholics did not have the right to own land. In order to live and grow their own vegetables my Grandfather worked for the Protestant family that owned the land. He was 11 years old and did it until he was 19. For $0.00 an hour.

[TheOracle]

Doo Doo Brown has been 1 for 7 since this post at Belmont


1 05-23-2019 4th race 1 Financial System (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good
2 05-23-2019 4th race 1A Unleveraged (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 2.9 2.1 2.1
3 05-23-2019 7th race 8 Morelikelythannot (KY) Mdn Spcl1 3/8 M C C Brown 4/1# Turf Good
4 05-24-2019 7th race 9 Chiclets Dream (NY) Alw 7 Furl C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm S 2.2
5 05-24-2019 8th race 6 Too Cool to Dance (KY) Alw 1 1/8 M C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm
6 05-25-2019 6th race 7 Positive Skew (KY) Alw 6 Furl C C Brown 7/2# Turf Firm
7 05-25-2019 9th race 2 Fog of War (KY) Stakes 7 Furl C C Brown 8/5# Turf Firm

Strts 1st 2nds 3rds Win % Win $ Cost Return % Return
C C Brown 7 1 0 1 14.2% $2.9 $14 $-11.1 -80%

WPS % WPS $ Cost Return % Return Shw $
28.5% $9.3 $42 $-32.7 -78% 4.3


He tries the Dirt today at Belmont


1 05-26-2019 3rd race 2 Rumor Driven (NY) Allowance One Mile C C Brown 1/1# Dirt

2 05-26-2019 6th race 6 Minsky Moment (NY) Allowance Opt Clm One And One Sixteenth Miles C C Brown 8/5# Dirt

3 05-26-2019 9th race 7 Cyber Currency (NY) Maiden Special Weight Six And One Half Furlongs C C Brown 3/1# Dirt


Too bad they can't all just walk out and let him do it all by himself

[Suff]

Only view I have of Chad Brown is that he is ultra-professional and runs a first class operation. That's from my limited experiences of seeing him up close at a couple of race tracks. Anything could be going on, but his manner is solid.

[Tom]

You could have said that same thing about Carlo Gambino.:rolleyes:

[TheOracle]

Doo Doo Brown has been 1 for 7 since this post at Belmont


1 05-23-2019 4th race 1 Financial System (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good
2 05-23-2019 4th race 1A Unleveraged (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 2.9 2.1 2.1
3 05-23-2019 7th race 8 Morelikelythannot (KY) Mdn Spcl1 3/8 M C C Brown 4/1# Turf Good
4 05-24-2019 7th race 9 Chiclets Dream (NY) Alw 7 Furl C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm S 2.2
5 05-24-2019 8th race 6 Too Cool to Dance (KY) Alw 1 1/8 M C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm
6 05-25-2019 6th race 7 Positive Skew (KY) Alw 6 Furl C C Brown 7/2# Turf Firm
7 05-25-2019 9th race 2 Fog of War (KY) Stakes 7 Furl C C Brown 8/5# Turf Firm

Strts 1st 2nds 3rds Win % Win $ Cost Return % Return
C C Brown 7 1 0 1 14.2% $2.9 $14 $-11.1 -80%

WPS % WPS $ Cost Return % Return Shw $
28.5% $9.3 $42 $-32.7 -78% 4.3


He tries the Dirt today at Belmont


1 05-26-2019 3rd race 2 Rumor Driven (NY) Allowance One Mile C C Brown 1/1# Dirt

2 05-26-2019 6th race 6 Minsky Moment (NY) Allowance Opt Clm One And One Sixteenth Miles C C Brown 8/5# Dirt

3 05-26-2019 9th race 7 Cyber Currency (NY) Maiden Special Weight Six And One Half Furlongs C C Brown 3/1# Dirt


Too bad they can't all just walk out and let him do it all by himself

Doo Doo Brown went 0 for 3 today


1 2019-05-26 3rd race 2 Rumor Driven (NY) Allowance One Mile C C Brown 1/1# Dirt Fast 0.0 0.0 2.1

2 2019-05-26 6th race 6 Minsky Moment (NY) Allowance Optional Claiming One And One Sixteenth Miles C C Brown 8/5# Dirt Fast 0.0 0.0 0.0

3 2019-05-26 9th race 7 Cyber Currency (NY) Maiden Special Weight Six And One Half Furlongs C C Brown 3/1# Dirt Fast 0.0 0.0 0.0



Since the fine he's been 1 for his last 10 only 3 have hit the board since then


1 05-23-2019 4th race 1 Financial System (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good
2 05-23-2019 4th race 1A Unleveraged (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 2.9 2.1 2.1
3 05-23-2019 7th race 8 Morelikelythannot (KY) Mdn Spcl1 3/8 M C C Brown 4/1# Turf Good
4 05-24-2019 7th race 9 Chiclets Dream (NY) Alw 7 Furl C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm S 2.2
5 05-24-2019 8th race 6 Too Cool to Dance (KY) Alw 1 1/8 M C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm
6 05-25-2019 6th race 7 Positive Skew (KY) Alw 6 Furl C C Brown 7/2# Turf Firm
7 05-25-2019 9th race 2 Fog of War (KY) Stakes 7 Furl C C Brown 8/5# Turf Firm
8 05-26-2019 3rd race 2 Rumor Driven (NY) Alw 1 M C C Brown 1/1# Dirt Fast S 2.1
9 05-26-2019 6th race 6 Minsky Moment (NY) AOC 1 1/16M C C Brown 8/5# Dirt Fast
10 05-26-2019 9th race 7 Cyber Currency (NY) Mdn Spcl6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1# Dirt Fast

Strts 1st 2nds 3rds Win % Win $ Cost Return % Return
C C Brown 10 1 0 2 10% $2.9 $20 $-17.1 -86%

WPS % WPS $ Cost Return % Return Shw $
30% $11.4 $60 $-48.6 -81% 6.4


To paraphrase a very famous line Karma is a dish best served cold...

[TheOracle]

Doo Doo Brown has these today at Belmont


1 05-27-2019 2nd race 1 More Mischief (NY) Allowance 6.5 Furlongs C C Brown 3/1# Dirt

2 05-27-2019 5th race 1 Fifty Five (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 1/1# Turf
3 05-27-2019 5th race 7 Lovely La La (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 12/1# Turf

4 05-27-2019 7th race 4 Kathryn the Wise (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 8/5# Dirt

5 05-27-2019 8th race 3 Offering Plan (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 6/5# Turf


Let's hope the carnage continues!!!

[GMB@BP]

Doo Doo Brown has these today at Belmont


1 05-27-2019 2nd race 1 More Mischief (NY) Allowance 6.5 Furlongs C C Brown 3/1# Dirt

2 05-27-2019 5th race 1 Fifty Five (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 1/1# Turf
3 05-27-2019 5th race 7 Lovely La La (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 12/1# Turf

4 05-27-2019 7th race 4 Kathryn the Wise (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 8/5# Dirt

5 05-27-2019 8th race 3 Offering Plan (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 6/5# Turf


Let's hope the carnage continues!!!

Did Baffert have payroll issues as well, he has been colder than a witches tit lately.

[tbwinner]

It is ridiculous to think trainers are using timeclocks or punchcards... 95 percent of barn help is paid by the day, by the head for grooms, weekly,etc. No one is punching clocks or keeping records to 40 hour OT rules.

Illegally? yes... and I am sure people are scrambling to falisfy records...

Chad Brown is the first of many....whos next?

[GMB@BP]

It is ridiculous to think trainers are using timeclocks or punchcards... 95 percent of barn help is paid by the day, by the head for grooms, weekly,etc. No one is punching clocks or keeping records to 40 hour OT rules.

Illegally? yes... and I am sure people are scrambling to falisfy records...

Chad Brown is the first of many....whos next?

The thing is this goes way way back, in theory people could be owed back pay for decades if they are going to enforce this.

[Suff]

Housing,laundry, bar, schools,churches, medical care, picnics, bingo nights, group outings.

Plantation Living.

[clicknow]

My Grandfather did it.


Ex neighbor who is in late 80s, his papa did it.

That is, until the Company Store took away his oxen team. :(:ThmbDown:

He was telling me stories about being a share-croppers son, back in the day.

The year crops didn't come in due to drought. The Company Store upped and took away his dad's oxen team because he couldn't pay for the seed.

He said it was the only time in his entire life he saw his dad break down sobbing........because w/out his oxen, there would be no way to plow and feed his family.

Back in that day, the Company Store owned the shack you lived in, and they owned the store where you shopped. That included buying all your seeds.

The sharecroppers son who told me this story was in his late 80s when he told it to me, and it was still one of his strongest and saddest memories of life...a tear came into his eye telling it. They did, by the way, pretty much starve for the next few years. Him, and his brothers and sisters.

I hope whoever took away his pappy's oxen is in a very HOT PLACE right now. ;)

Thing is, there will always be more vultures to take their place.

[TheOracle]

Doo Doo Brown has these today at Belmont


1 05-27-2019 2nd race 1 More Mischief (NY) Allowance 6.5 Furlongs C C Brown 3/1# Dirt

2 05-27-2019 5th race 1 Fifty Five (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 1/1# Turf
3 05-27-2019 5th race 7 Lovely La La (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 12/1# Turf

4 05-27-2019 7th race 4 Kathryn the Wise (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 8/5# Dirt

5 05-27-2019 8th race 3 Offering Plan (NY) Stakes One Mile C C Brown 6/5# Turf


Let's hope the carnage continues!!!

Doo Doo Brown had 2 winners today


1 05-27-2019 2nd race 1 More Mischief (NY) Alw 6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1# Dirt Fast P 3.8 2.3
2 05-27-2019 5th race 1 Fifty Five (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 3.1 2.6 2.1
3 05-27-2019 5th race 7 Lovely La La (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 12/1# Turf Good
4 05-27-2019 7th race 4 Kathryn the Wise (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 8/5# Dirt Fast W 6.3 3.7 2.5
5 05-27-2019 8th race 3 Offering Plan (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 6/5# Turf Good S 2.1

Strts 1st 2nds 3rds Win % Win $ Cost Return % Return
C C Brown 5 2 1 1 40% $9.4 $10 $-0.6 -6%

WPS % WPS $ Cost Return % Return Shw $
80% $28.5 $30 $-1.5 -5% 9


He had a $12.50 number across the board in the 7th race that was an 8/5 Morning Line Favorite

Too bad the stable hands won't see any of that purse money

[TheOracle]

Doo Doo Brown now 3 for 15 since this post


1 05-23-2019 4th race 1 Financial System (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good
2 05-23-2019 4th race 1A Unleveraged (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 2.9 2.1 2.1
3 05-23-2019 7th race 8 Morelikelythannot (KY) Mdn Spcl1 3/8 M C C Brown 4/1# Turf Good
4 05-24-2019 7th race 9 Chiclets Dream (NY) Alw 7 Furl C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm S 2.2
5 05-24-2019 8th race 6 Too Cool to Dance (KY) Alw 1 1/8 M C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm
6 05-25-2019 6th race 7 Positive Skew (KY) Alw 6 Furl C C Brown 7/2# Turf Firm
7 05-25-2019 9th race 2 Fog of War (KY) Stakes 7 Furl C C Brown 8/5# Turf Firm
8 05-26-2019 3rd race 2 Rumor Driven (NY) Alw 1 M C C Brown 1/1# Dirt Fast S 2.1
9 05-26-2019 6th race 6 Minsky Moment (NY) AOC 1 1/16M C C Brown 8/5# Dirt Fast
10 05-26-2019 9th race 7 Cyber Currency (NY) Mdn Spcl6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1# Dirt Fast
11 05-27-2019 2nd race 1 More Mischief (NY) Alw 6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1# Dirt Fast P 3.8 2.3
12 05-27-2019 5th race 1 Fifty Five (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 3.1 2.6 2.1
13 05-27-2019 5th race 7 Lovely La La (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 12/1# Turf Good
14 05-27-2019 7th race 4 Kathryn the Wise (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 8/5# Dirt Fast W 6.3 3.7 2.5
15 05-27-2019 8th race 3 Offering Plan (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 6/5# Turf Good S 2.1

Strts 1st 2nds 3rds Win % Win $ Cost Return % Return
C C Brown 15 3 1 3 20% $12.3 $30 $-17.7 -59%

WPS % WPS $ Cost Return % Return Shw $
46.6% $39.9 $90 $-50.1 -56% 15.4


Would be great to see all of the stable hands across the country under him go on strike

[cj]

Doo Doo Brown now 3 for 15 since this post


1 05-23-2019 4th race 1 Financial System (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good
2 05-23-2019 4th race 1A Unleveraged (KY) Alw 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 2.9 2.1 2.1
3 05-23-2019 7th race 8 Morelikelythannot (KY) Mdn Spcl1 3/8 M C C Brown 4/1# Turf Good
4 05-24-2019 7th race 9 Chiclets Dream (NY) Alw 7 Furl C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm S 2.2
5 05-24-2019 8th race 6 Too Cool to Dance (KY) Alw 1 1/8 M C C Brown 5/2# Turf Firm
6 05-25-2019 6th race 7 Positive Skew (KY) Alw 6 Furl C C Brown 7/2# Turf Firm
7 05-25-2019 9th race 2 Fog of War (KY) Stakes 7 Furl C C Brown 8/5# Turf Firm
8 05-26-2019 3rd race 2 Rumor Driven (NY) Alw 1 M C C Brown 1/1# Dirt Fast S 2.1
9 05-26-2019 6th race 6 Minsky Moment (NY) AOC 1 1/16M C C Brown 8/5# Dirt Fast
10 05-26-2019 9th race 7 Cyber Currency (NY) Mdn Spcl6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1# Dirt Fast
11 05-27-2019 2nd race 1 More Mischief (NY) Alw 6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1# Dirt Fast P 3.8 2.3
12 05-27-2019 5th race 1 Fifty Five (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 1/1# Turf Good W 3.1 2.6 2.1
13 05-27-2019 5th race 7 Lovely La La (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 12/1# Turf Good
14 05-27-2019 7th race 4 Kathryn the Wise (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 8/5# Dirt Fast W 6.3 3.7 2.5
15 05-27-2019 8th race 3 Offering Plan (NY) Stakes 1 M C C Brown 6/5# Turf Good S 2.1

Strts 1st 2nds 3rds Win % Win $ Cost Return % Return
C C Brown 15 3 1 3 20% $12.3 $30 $-17.7 -59%

WPS % WPS $ Cost Return % Return Shw $
46.6% $39.9 $90 $-50.1 -56% 15.4


Would be great to see all of the stable hands across the country under him go on strike

He's won six of his last 25 including five stakes around the country. I think he'll be ok.

[LemonSoupKid]

The next time someone whines about how "we just can't find Americans to doooo theeese jooooobssss"... well, Chad Brown is one of the reasons why.

$1.6 MILLION could feed, house, and insure alot of Americans.

We need H2B visas for groom and hot walkers? And people wonder why populism is so obviously supported by Americans.

This is awful, I am sad this will conflict me on rooting or betting on his horses from now on. Damn.

[LemonSoupKid]

it certainly looks like its not that easy to run big operation like what Brown has.
according to the article, he signed a consent decree which is a tough way to travel going forward for sure. that explains why the fines and penalties were so low on this case. if this happened to me i would immediately retire from horse racing and go into something else that the government wouldn't have hanging over my head.

I also don't want to be too sure or harsh because I'm sure this is complicated, but the problem is that the culture has become so bad over the years of spoiling the top guys (chamber of commerce types) with global labor, they now expect dirt cheap 3rd world prices for solid labor. It's one of the reasons why we have so many problems, and it's exacerbated by those who make "capitalism" an idol. I'm a huge markets guy but this kind of stuff is what makes having a country meaningless. If you want global labor but people have differing currencies and standards of living, it's not fair to call that "competition" to the local area. It's the same argument as idolizing "free trade" which is Chamber of Commerce BS so they can sweatshop people and sell it back to us in the US for 10 or 100-fold the price it would otherwise be.

If you have any delusions about this being the way "business" people think, just listen to Mark Cuban on Shark Tank. He's a clear example, unabashed of how brazen these types still are. They don't even care about throwing it in your face.

[The_Turf_Monster]

I also don't want to be too sure or harsh because I'm sure this is complicated, but the problem is that the culture has become so bad over the years of spoiling the top guys (chamber of commerce types) with global labor, they now expect dirt cheap 3rd world prices for solid labor. It's one of the reasons why we have so many problems, and it's exacerbated by those who make "capitalism" an idol. I'm a huge markets guy but this kind of stuff is what makes having a country meaningless. If you want global labor but people have differing currencies and standards of living, it's not fair to call that "competition" to the local area. It's the same argument as idolizing "free trade" which is Chamber of Commerce BS so they can sweatshop people and sell it back to us in the US for 10 or 100-fold the price it would otherwise be.

If you have any delusions about this being the way "business" people think, just listen to Mark Cuban on Shark Tank. He's a clear example, unabashed of how brazen these types still are. They don't even care about throwing it in your face.

He's just an example of somebody not bright enough to comprehend the effects of 'free trade' on a domestic/importing population. All the dude has is profits in mind and for him, 'free trade' doesn't affect anything but his bottom line. It's sad to watch tbh, history won't be kind to people like him

[Tom]

So has Chadsy paid all his employees, and us taxpayers yet?
Or is he still playing dumb?

[clicknow]

(chamber of commerce types)

Ha. Yes. I know the type. I lived in a town like that, where the only thing the top Chamber of Commerce people did was make things better for themselves (their rental vacation cabins, their car dealerships, their sweatshops, etc. ) ------ while the rest of the town remained seriously economically depressed because they kept out any and every company that wanted to come in from the outside with jobs for the townsfolk. The townsfolks remained a captive audience ( with small paychecks) for the chamber-of-commerce people who ran and owned every business in town. (and were on all the boards like the economic development committees, etc. too).

I waited 17 years for that to change, but it never did, and it never will, unless these people just die off, but then they taught their kids the same value system, so they will just take over where mom n' dad left off. I"m sure there are many small Southern towns like this.

[NY BRED]

uncertain if this part of the equation has been discussed, but:

If these employees were not paid ,and taxes were filed stating they were paid ,i believe both the trainer and accountant(s) committed fraud and could face heavy penalties from the IRS,massive litigation from the employees,possibly even jail time.

Based upon the information stated , the proper action would be for all tracks
to suspend Chad Brown until this matter is clarified.

[TheOracle]

Doo Doo Brown 10 entered at Belmont before scratches
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152631

[TheOracle]

Doo Doo Brown 7 for 22 at Belmont since the fine



1 05-23-2019 4th race 1 Financial System (KY) Alw Turf Good 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1#
2 05-23-2019 4th race 1A Unleveraged (KY) Alw Turf Good 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# W 2.9 2.1 2.1
3 05-23-2019 7th race 8 Morelikelythannot (KY) Mdn SpclTurf Good 1 3/8 M C C Brown 4/1#
4 05-24-2019 7th race 9 Chiclets Dream (NY) Alw Turf Firm 7 Furl C C Brown 5/2# S 2.2
5 05-24-2019 8th race 6 Too Cool to Dance (KY) Alw Turf Firm 1 1/8 M C C Brown 5/2#
6 05-25-2019 6th race 7 Positive Skew (KY) Alw Turf Firm 6 Furl C C Brown 7/2#
7 05-25-2019 9th race 2 Fog of War (KY) Stakes Turf Firm 7 Furl C C Brown 8/5#
8 05-26-2019 3rd race 2 Rumor Driven (NY) Alw Dirt Fast 1 M C C Brown 1/1# S 2.1
9 05-26-2019 6th race 6 Minsky Moment (NY) Alw Op CDirt Fast 1 1/16M C C Brown 8/5#
10 05-26-2019 9th race 7 Cyber Currency (NY) Mdn SpclDirt Fast 6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1#
11 05-27-2019 2nd race 1 More Mischief (NY) Alw Dirt Fast 6.5 FurlC C Brown 3/1# P 3.8 2.3
12 05-27-2019 5th race 1 Fifty Five (NY) Stakes Turf Good 1 M C C Brown 1/1# W 3.1 2.6 2.1
13 05-27-2019 5th race 7 Lovely La La (NY) Stakes Turf Good 1 M C C Brown 12/1#
14 05-27-2019 7th race 4 Kathryn the Wise (NY) Stakes Dirt Fast 1 M C C Brown 8/5# W 6.3 3.7 2.5
15 05-27-2019 8th race 3 Offering Plan (NY) Stakes Turf Good 1 M C C Brown 6/5# S 2.1
16 05-30-2019 3rd race 3 Dunbar Road (KY) Alw Dirt Good 1 1/16M C C Brown 3/5# W 2.7 2.1 2.1
17 05-30-2019 3rd race 4 South of the Shore (KY) Alw Dirt Good 1 1/16M C C Brown 4/1# P 4.4 2.8
18 05-30-2019 7th race 7 Smooth With a Kick (KY) Mdn SpclDirt Sloppy 1 1/16M C C Brown 5/2# S 2.5
19 06-01-2019 2nd race 1 Cafe Americano (KY) Alw Op CTurf Good 1 1/8 M C C Brown 8/5# W 4.4 3.0 2.2
20 06-01-2019 4th race 5 Highest Honors (KY) Mdn SpclDirt Fast 1 1/16M C C Brown 1/1# W 2.6 2.1 2.1
21 06-01-2019 8th race 1 Value Proposition (GB) Stakes Turf Good 1 1/8 M C C Brown 5/2#
22 06-01-2019 8th race 3 Demarchelier (GB) Stakes Turf Good 1 1/8 M C C Brown 9/2# W 12.4 6.0 3.0

ML Odds Strts 1st 2nds 3rds Win % Win $ Cost Return % Rtrn
all odds 22 7 2 4 31.8% $34.4 $44 $-9.6 -22%

WPS % WPS $ Cost Return % Rtrn Shw $
59% $94.3 $132 $-37.7 -29% 30.1


He tries with 10 today at Belmont before scratches interesting, his horses seem to be doing better on a wet surface

We had some rain in the Tri-State area last night I hope it all dries out by the 1st race

[bob60566]

And it is only early June

2019 STATISTICS*
Starts Firsts Seconds Thirds Earnings
268 82 50 36 $9,394,996


Must be the Feed that earns 31% win average this year. lol

[Racetrack Playa]

This was in the Asmussen thread ,
figured Id drop it here.



Posted by lex

:Now some kids want Chad Brown booted from speaking at a high school graduation.:

https://www.timesunion.com/news/arti...r-14056139.php (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Mechanicville-seniors-upset-by-graduation-speaker-14056139.php)


below is from the Times Union-

"When the teens brought their concerns to teachers and to the high school administration office, they said they were either ignored or told to respect Brown and mind their own business. No one will answer Bub's question as to who booked him as a speaker."


-sounds like some here.:rolleyes:


"This makes me extremely uncomfortable that he will be giving us words of advice," said Bub, who plans on attending College in the fall to become a vet tech-

They are also mulling over a silent protest such as standing and turning their backs to Brown as he speaks.:ThmbUp:

[the little guy]

I know this thread is only for "evil Chad Brown" stories, so maybe I should have started a new thread for this article, but I figured, what the heck....


http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/on-aftercare-program-helps-teens-thanks-to-funding-from-chad-brown/

[clicknow]

I know this thread is only for "evil Chad Brown" stories, so maybe I should have started a new thread for this article, but I figured, what the heck....


http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/on-aftercare-program-helps-teens-thanks-to-funding-from-chad-brown/

Nobody said, anywhere in this topic, that people who break the law don't do some good things.

That doesn't excuse them breaking the law.

Maybe a topic called "law breakers who donate to charity".... that way they can be recognized for their philanthropic activities and tax breaks.

I remember when Ken Lay of Enron went down, how much many arts groups, scholarship funds and medical facilities missed getting the charitable contributions his company made....yes those contributions "did good".

I'm sure Mr. Brown cares a great deal for horses as well and the program at his former high school that involves horses and students there seems like a good match.

[o_crunk]

Mechanicville seniors upset by graduation speaker (https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Mechanicville-seniors-upset-by-graduation-speaker-14056139.php)

Saying it sends a "very negative message," some graduating seniors at the city's high school are angry that the thoroughbred race horse trainer who underpaid his stable workers and has to pay $1.6 million in back wages and fines will deliver the keynote address at their commencement's ceremony on Saturday.

.....

This situation is further exacerbated as both teens oppose horse racing. Bub, who just spent two years in the WSWHE BOCES Horse Care program, said the class deepened her conviction that the sport of horse racing is cruel.

Do read the whole thing.

There's been a lot of the usual racing industry defenses for Brown - that paying workers is complicated and that hours are tough to keep track of. That different rates are paid at different tracks. And those *are* compelling defenses. But I've yet to hear a defense of how Brown's stable was charging back H2B's for their visas. That seems extraordinary to me and if it's as the government contends, it's a pretty bad look on his part and would seem to be deliberate short changing of his hired help.

[Tom]

Really good message for graduating kids - life is hard, take short cuts, breaks laws.

They have to be crazy to allow him to speak there.
:puke:

[Grits]

I know this thread is only for "evil Chad Brown" stories, so maybe I should have started a new thread for this article, but I figured, what the heck....


http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/on-aftercare-program-helps-teens-thanks-to-funding-from-chad-brown/


I'm glad you posted this!! Really glad, and I thank you. I've not, and will not speak of Chad's recent problems except to say....before I'm anything I'm a mother. If he were my son, I'd be by his side all the way. Any of us would be, because, it's our child. I'd be the same over Steve Asmussen and Jerry Hollendorfer.

Gentlemen, Jerry and Pattie Brown are my friends, as some of you know, and they are fine, fine people. I love them dearly. I hope for Chad and all of his family that this works out going forward.

Thank you guys for reading. Hope all of you are doing well. :kiss:

[NY BRED]

I'm glad you posted this!! Really glad, and I thank you. I've not, and will not speak of Chad's recent problems except to say....before I'm anything I'm a mother. If he were my son, I'd be by his side all the way. Any of us would be, because, it's our child. I'd be the same over Steve Asmussen and Jerry Hollendorfer.

Gentlemen, Jerry and Pattie Brown are my friends, as some of you know, and they are fine, fine people. I love them dearly. I hope for Chad and all of his family that this works out going forward.

Thank you guys for reading. Hope all of you are doing well. :kiss:

you should since recent articles on the new refer to Jerry Hollendorfer and his
caring for retired thoroughbreds

[NY BRED]

I'm glad you posted this!! Really glad, and I thank you. I've not, and will not speak of Chad's recent problems except to say....before I'm anything I'm a mother. If he were my son, I'd be by his side all the way. Any of us would be, because, it's our child. I'd be the same over Steve Asmussen and Jerry Hollendorfer.

Gentlemen, Jerry and Pattie Brown are my friends, as some of you know, and they are fine, fine people. I love them dearly. I hope for Chad and all of his family that this works out going forward.

Thank you guys for reading. Hope all of you are doing well. :kiss:

anyone aware of this horror story has actually hit the press or was litigated by employees of other trainers throughout the United States?

BTW, was Chad's "idol" Bobby Frankel the inspiration for this tactic?

While I seriously doubt Frankel would be Chad's inspiration, an equal
question are the accountants who followed his directions , who , in my
opinion should be facing fines and portential loss of their licenses.

Would also be interesting if the IRS is investigating this matter.

[PaceAdvantage]

anyone aware of this horror story has actually hit the press or was litigated by employees of other trainers throughout the United States?

BTW, was Chad's "idol" Bobby Frankel the inspiration for this tactic?

While I seriously doubt Frankel would be Chad's inspiration, an equal
question are the accountants who followed his directions , who , in my
opinion should be facing fines and portential loss of their licenses.

Would also be interesting if the IRS is investigating this matter.You post as if you know exactly what went down. But you also post like you have no clue, precisely because you're posting as if you know how this went down.

It's clear you do not know. You just go with what "feels good."

Makes for a painful read for this observer.

Not everything is so cut and dried. Not everyone who is associated with some bad things is the devil incarnate. You don't know the whole story behind this, so you should stop posting on the topic like some slavish media fool.

[Fager Fan]

You post as if you know exactly what went down. But you also post like you have no clue, precisely because you're posting as if you know how this went down.

It's clear you do not know. You just go with what "feels good."

Makes for a painful read for this observer.

Not everything is so cut and dried. Not everyone who is associated with some bad things is the devil incarnate. You don't know the whole story behind this, so you should stop posting on the topic like some slavish media fool.

I can't even figure out what she's talking about, so good for you that you were able to translate.