Will your child be drafted?

[ljb]

With a reduction in people joining the Guard and many troops attempting to refuse return to Iraq, the draft is becoming more and more possible.
Here is a quote from another source:
""The war on terror will continue," says the president. "It's going to take a while and no, we don't need a draft."

But Beverly's not buying it. She's a Republican, but also a single-issue voter.

Would she vote for a Democrat? "Absolutely," she says. "I would vote for Howdy Doody if I thought it would keep my boys home and safe."

In fact, there are at least three votes in this house riding on the draft: Beverly's and her sons' Carmen and Nick.

Are her sons worried about being drafted? "Yeah," says Nick. "It's the talk; the talk's there. Though people aren't actually coming out and saying it, it's there."

What worries the Coccos is the continuing need for more troops in dangerous places. And the machinery for a draft is already in place: all men have to register when they turn 18 [...]

There hasn't been a draft since 1973, but that's not much comfort to Beverly Cocco.

So she is keeping a sharp eye on the political traffic. She's a Bush supporter today, but if she doesn't like what she hears between now and November, she could easily cross over.
"
Think about it before you vote this year.

[cj]

Who implemented the last draft?

[Equineer]

Sitting and would-be Commanders In Chief should not let populist politics dictate their position on the draft.

IMHO, a military tour is a bad thing only when the cause is flawed and lives and limbs are needlessly sacrificed. In peace time, a draft would expose a multitude of young men and women to harsh realities and unambiguous consequences that too many parents and educators are loathe to address.

What better than a few hundred iterations of "Road guards out... Road guards in" to burn off a college beer belly? :)

[betchatoo]

This may come as a shock to conservatives on the board, but I'm in favor of a draft (I volunteered for the draft in '68). I like the idea of the Swiss and Israeli of having everybody serve. Serving your country is an honorable thing and it could help a lot of people
mature.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Kerry has been terrorizing the voters with his BS.
He says if Bush is reelected we will all be forced to carry bullets, bibles, and babies.

[sq764]

LJB, do you have any statistics on re-enlistment into the Guards? Would be curious to see them..

[JustRalph]

I am for a mandatory 2 year term in the service. Now!

[Tom]

Who the hell is Beverly Cocco?:confused: :confused: :confused:

[delayjf]

I see the logic of manditory service for all, but the cost would be enormous, I mean how many people are we talking about??

[sq764]

..There is not going to be a draft ever again, it's ludacrous to think so..

It's just another pathetic attempt from Kerry's people to attack Bush and Iraq. It's another fear tactic being tried (miserably)... "Oh my God, if Bush stays in office, my 15 year old may be drafted in 2 years, I better vote for Kerry"

Fortunately, the majority of voters are not idiots.

[Equineer]

Originally posted by delayjf
I see the logic of manditory service for all, but the cost would be enormous, I mean how many people are we talking about?? Cost? Per capita and adjusted for inflation, probably less than ever before in history... considering current demographics and extended careers prior to full Social Security benefits.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by delayjf
I see the logic of manditory service for all, but the cost would be enormous, I mean how many people are we talking about??

25-30 million men and women between15-25 years of age.

Do the math........$5000 to train a basic grunt in the Army thru basic training. Probably 250k for a pilot thru basic flight training.

But I also would be for allowing other types of government service besides Military service.

[dav4463]

John McCain was a guest on ESPN radio today and he said there would absolutely be no draft . The population has enough people who want to be in the service. No draft is necessary. It is just another scare tactic by Kerry who is grasping at anything now as he sinks deeper and deeper into obscurity.

[Equineer]

Originally posted by JustRalph
25-30 million men and women between15-25 years of age.

Do the math........$5000 to train a basic grunt in the Army thru basic training. Probably 250k for a pilot thru basic flight training.

But I also would be for allowing other types of government service besides Military service. Plus all the career training and skills that are a byproduct... all military specialties are more challenging than flipping burgers!

[Tom]

Kerry will sink to any depths.
Is this really the quality of a man you want to lead this nation???

[SilverSow]

I saw this report when it aired... on CBS news, of course... so I'm taking this particular one with a grain (OK, more than a grain) of salt.

But the issue is still there... and I'd like to see it addressed in one of the debates. As much as I agree with those who say the Democrats are pushing this issue to terrorize folks (much like they do when they say specific things are being cut when it's really the rate of increase in spending that's being cut... lies like that really suck when they aim 'em at seniors, by the way), I'd like to see some concrete position taken by each party on this one.

And preferably sooner trhan later so I can start looking for friends in Canada for Bubbles... LOL

Dave

[Equineer]

SiverSow,

Bush said it in O'Reilly's No-Spin Zone, but it could just as easily come from Kerry since it is consistent with recent U.S. foreign policy: Iran will not have nuclear weapons on my watch.

As a contingency, I think Bubbles should begin concentrating on Woodbine.

Unlike Saddam, Iran will have many Middle East friends and neutral nations arguing that Iran is to Israel as Pakistan is to India.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Anyone remember back in August, one of Kerry's Campaign Proposals was to hire 40,000 permanent troops, to reduce the number of Guardsman being used long-term. If re-enlistments are down and volunteers are down, Kerry would have to either draft, or offer some damn nice incentives, to get his 40,000.

Right now, I'd be more concerned with Kerry reimplementing the draft than Bush, unless Kerry's changed his mind about the 40,000 by now. It's been a month now.

[ljb]

from sq764
LJB, do you have any statistics on re-enlistment into the Guards? Would be curious to see them..

It is in all the papers. Tonight's local paper states a 10 percent drop this year in new recruits not sure about re-enlistments.

[ljb]

From Kenwoodall
Kerry has been terrorizing the voters with his BS.
He says if Bush is reelected we will all be forced to carry bullets, bibles, and babies.

______________

Could you provide the source for this slanderous statement?

Speaking of terrorizing:
Roosevelt said we have nothing to fear but fear itself.
Bush says we have nothing but fear.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by JustRalph
I am for a mandatory 2 year term in the service. Now!

How about that JR? Something we agree on

[sq764]

LJB, so a 10% decline in enlistment for one year will result in and require a draft?

I even give you enough credit to realize that is absolutely ridiculous..

I know desperate times call for desperate measures, but at least come up with some semi-realistic scenarios..

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by JustRalph
25-30 million men and women between15-25 years of age.

Do the math........$5000 to train a basic grunt in the Army thru basic training. Probably 250k for a pilot thru basic flight training.

But I also would be for allowing other types of government service besides Military service.

If all these young people went into service, had something to do besides hang on the streets and learned a trade, I wonder how much we'd save in welfare, unemployment and jail costs.

[Tom]

Originally posted by betchatoo
If all these young people went into service, had something to do besides hang on the streets and learned a trade, I wonder how much we'd save in welfare, unemployment and jail costs.

I don't think I want theses people in the service. Last time we had a draft, we had fragging and many bad soldiers. The draft is just no answer to anything.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by Tom
I don't think I want theses people in the service. Last time we had a draft, we had fragging and many bad soldiers. The draft is just no answer to anything.

Tom:

The reason for fragging in VIet Nam had nothing to do with the draft (we had the draft during World War II). We got ourselves in bad situation where we were losing officers so fast that we had to bring in many that had minimum training and little or no experience. This did not inspire confidence in combat soldiers and the sometimes resulted in fragging

Having everyone serve might actually combat this. We would have many more experienced people on hand.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
from sq764
LJB, do you have any statistics on re-enlistment into the Guards? Would be curious to see them..

It is in all the papers. Tonight's local paper states a 10 percent drop this year in new recruits not sure about re-enlistments.


Read it and weep, ljb. I know you libs hate seeing good, positive news. This must be a stake in your hearts.

http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_numbers_041404,00.html?ESRC=airforce-a.nl

Military Numbers Are Rising
Virginian-Pilot
April 14, 2004

Despite a rising tide of combat deaths and the prospect of deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan for years to come, Americans continue to volunteer for duty and are re-enlisting at record rates..............

"The war is not only not having a negative effect, but it is helping to reinforce the number of people who want to join," said Cmdr. John Kirby, a spokesman for the Navy's Bureau of Personnel.

Even the Army National Guard, which has had 150,000 citizen soldiers mobilized for up to a year, has seen retention rates "going through the roof," said Guard spokesman Maj. Robert Howell.

"Mass exodus has not been the case in the Army National Guard," said Howell, deputy chief of the Strength Maintenance Division at the National Guard Bureau in Washington. ......

The Guard's goal for first-term re-enlistments , for those with less than six years of service, had been 65 percent this fiscal year but has rocketed to 141 percent - which indicates that additional members re-enlisted early, usually to take advantage of bonuses.

The goal for second- and third-term enlistments, or those considered "career" soldiers, was set at 85 percent in the Guard but has come in at 136 percent, Howell said.

The Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps and Coast Guard all met or exceeded their year-end recruiting goals for fiscal year 2003, which ended Sept. 30. The figures continued to climb in the first half of fiscal year 2004, which was reached March 31.

[sq764]

Seriously doubt he'll respond.. His M.O. seems to be make up some story, see how long I can run with it, once it's proven wrong, move on to another thread..

[Equineer]

Anyone who has served knows that attaining goals is SOP.

The re-up goals are set with a high confidence level that they will be attainable.

Substantial re-enlistment bonuses help:

The 2003 Army pay chart shows than an SGT (E-5) with 8 years of service receives $2151.90 per month in base pay (plus the normal military benefits package).

The above soldier would receive 2 X 4 X $2151.90, or $17,215.20 as an SRB bonus for reenlisting for 4 years in any of the MOS specialties where the SRB multiplier is 2. SRB multipliers range between 0.5 and 4.0, depending on MOS.

[Tom]

Drafting people is never a good idea. Especially today. How many muslems are living here that would end up in uniform, in our camps, over there? Wer can live without that situation.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Equineer
Anyone who has served knows that attaining goals is SOP.

The re-up goals are set with a high confidence level that they will be attainable.

.


When I left in 1979 the retention rate goals were not met. I recall hearing at the time that they were at all time lows for peacetime.

Reason= Jimmy Carter. Now he's a Kerry shill....go figure.

I was reminded of this poor retention rate in the late 70s when I was doing a lil research on Kerry and his pitifully short swiftboat duty and the swiftvet accusations of his lack of integrity and inability to lead. I noticed Lehman signed his SSM citation and saw Lehman's comments on poor retention rates from the 70s.

[Equineer]

Originally posted by ElKabong
When I left in 1979 the retention rate goals were not met. I recall hearing at the time that they were at all time lows for peacetime.

Reason= Jimmy Carter. Now he's a Kerry shill....go figure.

I was reminded of this poor retention rate in the late 70s when I was doing a lil research on Kerry and his pitifully short swiftboat duty and the swiftvet accusations of his lack of integrity and inability to lead. I noticed Lehman signed his SSM citation and saw Lehman's comments on poor retention rates from the 70s. When we first switched to all-voluntary military services, wasn't pay a bigger issue that we read about today?

Do you have any links to info that shows the history of military compensation since Nam, including inflationary adjustments and benefit changes?

When I looked at the Army re-up examples, it seemed that promotions may be slower in coming. Good troops often made E-4 in under four years when I was in (USAF).

The re-up bonuses are no substitute for good basic pay. Impulse purchases like a Harley or new car are not a good reason to re-up.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Equineer
When I looked at the Army re-up examples, it seemed that promotions may be slower in coming. Good troops often made E-4 in under four years when I was in (USAF).

in the early 80's only the top 2% made E-4 in 4 years.

I remember the wait from E-3 to E-4 rolling every month. One month it would be 22 months and the next it would be 28. They had a thing called "below the zone" that got you promoted earlier, but it was a tough nut. This was about 82 or 83.

CJ.... can you fill us in on what it is nowadays?

[lsbets]

JR,

I have soldiers making E-5 in two years. A lot of them, but in times of war that is normal. Promotions come much faster for the enlisted soldiers. Its always been that way.

I can tell you, I would not want a draft. It is tough enough to instill discipline in troops who volunteered. If we had a draft, my concern would be more and more problem soldiers who take up too much of a leaders time.

We have the finest soldiers in the world. In the history of the world. Too bad the left cannot acknowledge that.

If you want to read about that story on CBS news, go to ratherbiased.com. They have a great piece on what a horrible story it is. CBS should register as a 527 PAC.

[Equineer]

Lsbets,

Similar wirh Viet Nam. Lots of AF troops made staff sergeant (E-5) before their discharge or first re-enlistment.

However, it seems to me that if there was ever a time to review military compensation it would be now.

We can be pretty confident that the $-Billions allocated for Iraqi reconstrction will be diluted by the corruption that pervades business in the Middle East.

Let's pay our troops first.

About a potential draft... news reports of contigency planning seems to indicate that the old exemptions would not be honored... this was a big quality control problem during the Viet Nam era.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Tom
Who the hell is Beverly Cocco?:confused: :confused: :confused:

Well, it seems this is just an random mother cBS picked to interview. She is political activitst, anti-war and anti-Bush advocate.

Credibiltiy --------------------------------------------------------->->->cBS

"moving away like a tremendous machine!"

[Tom]

The two bills about re-starting a draft are both democrate sponsered. Good TIme Charlie Rangle has concluded that when someone volunteers for the military, it is racist (??????) so he is sponsering a bill to draft white people. I would guess he will insist that the make up of the draft mirror the racial make up of the country...so whites go first.
So GTCR starts it, then JFKlown pics it up as a threat by Bush.
If therses guys weren't in congress, they would be running a three card monte game in the Bronx.

[sq764]

What surprised me is that kerry did not even try the whole 'exhausting our troops in Iraq could lead to a draft' card... I guess he put some more thought into it and realized the whole idea was a flat out lie..

(That puts him one step ahead of LJB :-)

[sq764]

What's ironic (and not been mentioned by LJB) is that there were 2 draft/mandatory enlistment bills drawn up in 2003 and both were sponsored by Democrats only.. Repubicans had nothing to do with them..

So this certainly goes right along with Kerry's attempt to scare families into thinking Bush would implement a draft