No Whipping at Santa Anita

[showonly]

The Guardian is reporting that Santa Anita is eliminating the whip except in the case of safety issues. I can't confirm another source for the story.




https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/mar/24/horse-racing-santa-anita-park-whip-ban

[woodbinepmi]

Have fun playing Santa Anita

[dilanesp]

The Guardian is reporting that Santa Anita is eliminating the whip except in the case of safety issues. I can't confirm another source for the story.




https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2019/mar/24/horse-racing-santa-anita-park-whip-ban

Wasn't that part of the deal they made with PETA?

[Tom]

Now, when a rider goes to the whip out of habit in the mist of a race, what happens?

DQ, or just fine the rider?

[jocko699]

Now, when a rider goes to the whip out of habit in the mist of a race, what happens?

DQ, or just fine the rider?

My understanding is they will have to watch reruns of Hank Goldberg picking winners!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Afleet]

Have fun playing Santa Anita

They need to move the BC

[Jeff P]

Why not do away with the racing part altogether?

Why not show the horses being saddled, and then do a post parade followed by warmups?

While this is happening the public would be betting on the outcome.

But instead of an actual race to determine the outcome:

After warmups, at post time, ring a bell to signal the close of betting. Then have the riders send the field once around the track at a slow gallop --

From there have the stewards judge the horses (subjectively) on different attributes like best turned out, coat, dapples, muscle mass, comportment, etc.

Afterwards, give the stewards a few minutes to finish filling out their scorecards.

Then collect the scorecards and scan them into the tote system. At which point the scores could be tabulated to determine first place, second place, third place, etc.

Have the placing judges double check the scorecards and declare the contest official. Then post the results and payoffs.

Isn't that where we are headed? :rolleyes:



-jp

.

[bob60566]

Why not do away with the racing part altogether?

Why not show the horses being saddled, and then do a post parade followed by warmups?

While this is happening the public would be betting on the outcome.

But instead of an actual race to determine the outcome:

After warmups, at post time, ring a bell to signal the close of betting. Then have the riders send the field once around the track at a slow gallop --

From there have the stewards judge the horses (subjectively) on different attributes like best turned out, coat, dapples, muscle mass, comportment, etc.

Afterwards, give the stewards a few minutes to finish filling out their scorecards.

Then collect the scorecards and scan them into the tote system. At which point the scores could be tabulated to determine first place, second place, third place, etc.

Have the placing judges double check the scorecards and declare the contest official. Then post the results and payoffs.

Isn't that where we are headed? :rolleyes:



-jp

.
Could we not make it the horse with the best Vet record is the winner, That would speed things up.:confused:

[chadk66]

bad bad day for racing. beginning of the end

[showonly]

LOLOLO


The start is the beginning of the end.

[airford1]

Glad that racing isn't based on ya'll's involvement. 3 weeks without Santa Anita and the Game is over. Ya'll broke wallets needed a break anyway.

[dilanesp]

My personal view of whipping is that if they would simply enforce rules on excessive use of the whip strictly, it would be fine. Everyone knows the difference between hitting a horse a couple of times to keep him straight or to coax her to start her run, and beating a tired horse 12 times in the stretch as he drops back. One is proper horsemanship, the other is animal abuse. And the sport should be against animal abuse whenever possible.

The Santa Anita rule looks overbroad.

And by the way, I am known here as a California homer, but I kinda of agree with the idea of moving the BC at this point. We are still in quite a mess, and there's a nonzero possibility that Santa Anita may fall back into a crisis. I am sure Churchill can take the BC on short notice, and that would probably be a good idea for the health of the sport. They could give the BC back to Santa Anita if/when it is clear that the track has its house in order.

[zawaaa]

i like it

the whip in horse racing is archaic, at best

as long as everyone's on a level playing field, what's the problem?

[airford1]

I'm a Santa Anita Homer too and they really got stupid in this case. People can say what they want about Stronich , but he has taken good care of an old facility that needed repairs when he bought it. He got screwed when they forced synthetic tracks on him in California. This has been blown way out of proportions and they needed to tell Peta to STFU. The only thing I would like to see is a carry no whip rule. Keep the medication and stop the milkshakes. When I started as fan horses races or breezed every 5 to 7 days. Hay Oats and water along with a generous tax write-off .

[chadk66]

I think some people need to watch a couple dozen head on views down the stretch. Horses drift back and forth all the time. Most of the time the whip is what keeps them from wiping out the horse next to them or the rail, etc. without a whip a jock will have to check up and physically yank a horses head over to prevent that. Which I'm fine with but then bettors will be pissed as hell and yelling the jock was crooked and took the horse back lol. This is going to be extremely interesting

[burnsy]

Its clear as day, the knives are out and track management has been put on notice. Its laughable that people think Stronach "volunteered" to do this and are bitching about them. California is the perfect state to come after horse racing. I'm quite sure phone calls and ultimatums have been delivered...…...and its got nothing to do with PETA. We are talking about political might here.

For all the "racing is fine deniers" that have been looking the other way for decades......the wolves are at the door, they see an opening with the public, and they smell blood. The word "hearings" is rumbling around. This is what happens when "business as usual" means never looking at yourself internally. In comes people you really don't want managing your game....as in, you reap, what you sow. You wont scale the game back and run the appropriate amount of races for the horses you have. Someone gonna step in and do it for you! Make no mistake about it.....they after you!

Of course, many states sanction all this racing.....they want the money. But never under estimate the walking of a "political pony."

[chadk66]

I have no doubt California will be the first state to loose all it's racing. Why wouldn't it be?

[ubercapper]

I have no doubt California will be the first state to loose all it's racing. Why wouldn't it be?

From an article at the Las Vegas Review - Journal-

"and limiting jockeys to use of the cushion crop — aka the whip — only as a “corrective safety measure,”

Whips are not banned. I mention this because someone in an earlier post on the thread commented about horses drifting.

[burnsy]

From an article at the Las Vegas Review - Journal-

"and limiting jockeys to use of the cushion crop — aka the whip — only as a “corrective safety measure,”

Whips are not banned. I mention this because someone in an earlier post on the thread commented about horses drifting.

That's not the big picture. The track was closed down. Now, out of the goodness of their hearts...…..they are doing this? And the Meds declaration? I'm pretty sure they were told to do something or the track will be the next "Condo Community", Mall. The heat is on.

I don't care what the silly rule is. If things keep going wrong, while the spotlight is on that track...…...more to come. If horses keep breaking down....for any reason....this is far from over.

[classhandicapper]

i like it

the whip in horse racing is archaic, at best

as long as everyone's on a level playing field, what's the problem?

As long as they have a pseudo whip available to try to straighten a horse out that's trying to bear in or bear out I think it will be safe and fine. Maybe it puts a bigger premium on the riders that are strong enough to finish well using their hands.

[dilanesp]

As long as they have a pseudo whip available to try to straighten a horse out that's trying to bear in or bear out I think it will be safe and fine. Maybe it puts a bigger premium on the riders that are strong enough to finish well using their hands.

FWIW, Wille Shoemaker very rarely used the whip. He was excellent at hand riding.

[ronsmac]

FWIW, Wille Shoemaker very rarely used the whip. He was excellent at hand riding.Watching Shoemaker in the stretch in the 88 Big Cap is a little painful to watch,but sometimes I wonder if any of that matters. I remember a meet at Charles Town around 89 90 or 91. I can't remember for sure the year but lady jocks finished 1-2-3 in the standings and none appeared particularly strong or used the whip much.

[dilanesp]

Watching Shoemaker in the stretch in the 88 Big Cap is a little painful to watch,but sometimes I wonder if any of that matters. I remember a meet at Charles Town around 89 90 or 91. I can't remember for sure the year but lady jocks finished 1-2-3 in the standings and none appeared particularly strong or used the whip much.

Well, the 1978 JCGC is a nice counterexample. Shoemaker sure got Exceller to finish.

[cutchemist42]

A lot of this falls on the industry for not educating the public on what the modern whip actually is. I mean, even the Guardian had that reporter who got whipped to prove the air cushion just produces a sound. It cant even hurt a human.

Instead they allowed the image of the whip to be the traditional kind from years ago. This is what a reactive industry does sadly...

[Robert Fischer]

A lot of this falls on the industry for not educating the public on what the modern whip actually is. I mean, even the Guardian had that reporter who got whipped to prove the air cushion just produces a sound. It cant even hurt a human.

Instead they allowed the image of the whip to be the traditional kind from years ago. This is what a reactive industry does sadly...

I have a hot pink riding crop from a year in the range of 1990-1994 (guessing 1993).

Jockey Mike Luzzi (at that time one of the meet's leading riders) threw the whip at the rail (grazing my fingers) when Luzzi was frustrated after being dismounted by a bad actor during a post parade at Pimlico. Mike apologized soon after, calling my father and I up to the jockey's room and presenting the whip to us.

Has there been a change to the riding crop since the mid-'90s?

I wouldn't call the riding crop that I have 'barbaric' but I wouldn't call it an 'air-cushion' either.

Thanks

[dilanesp]

I have a hot pink riding crop from a year in the range of 1990-1994 (guessing 1993).

Please don't tell us about your private life! :P

[Robert Fischer]

strictly memorabilia ;)

[classhandicapper]

Well, the 1978 JCGC is a nice counterexample. Shoemaker sure got Exceller to finish.

As a huge Slew fan, that was painful for me to watch, but for different reasons. :pout:

[dilanesp]

As a huge Slew fan, that was painful for me to watch, but for different reasons. :pout:

Shoemaker beat Slew twice with amazing rides.

[chadk66]

From an article at the Las Vegas Review - Journal-

"and limiting jockeys to use of the cushion crop — aka the whip — only as a “corrective safety measure,”

Whips are not banned. I mention this because someone in an earlier post on the thread commented about horses drifting.
banning them will happen I can guarantee you that.

[Hosshead]

Does the no whip apply to Golden Gate too ?

Wouldn't that make a great cartoon ?
The jockey in the walking ring (reign in hand) on his knees, begging the horse to give it his all.
The horse with a sly grin - " Shure Buddy ".

[dirty moose]

Can we just do away with the jocks? =)

[jocko699]

Can we just do away with the jocks? =)

Yes finally!!!!!! Monkeys will ride!!!:headbanger::headbanger::headbanger:

[cj]

Yes finally!!!!!! Monkeys will ride!!!:headbanger::headbanger::headbanger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbzLF57VAz0

[Suff]

My peanut gallery comment.

I can't see it. You can't handle a horse without one and be safe. Its deadly dangerous.

I'm warmer to the theory that Stronach doesn't want the place.

[chadk66]

drone jocks are on their way

[bitkey]

Hearing that they will compromise and use international rules as to number of times a horse can be hit

[cutchemist42]

I'm just worried this fires up PETA to get the low 600,000 signature barrier to banning the sport. They are pissed about this and carry more weight than the industry does there.

[Dahossdaboss]

I'm just worried this fires up PETA to get the low 600,000 signature barrier to banning the sport. They are pissed about this and carry more weight than the industry does there.

PETA’s response to the possible compromise was “They better not,” and a bunch of other misinformed nonsense.

This is where California needs to get a backbone and decide they are not going to let PETA dictate to them. Especially since PETA was non existent during the San Luis Rey fire.

[bob60566]

Are the new bug boys not allowed to carry whips and still win races .?

[dilanesp]

PETA’s response to the possible compromise was “They better not,” and a bunch of other misinformed nonsense.

This is where California needs to get a backbone and decide they are not going to let PETA dictate to them. Especially since PETA was non existent during the San Luis Rey fire.

I don't think you understand. PETA is popular here. Santa Anita used to be, but not so much anymore.

So concessions to PETA are the only way the sport survives here.

[bitkey]

Every horsewoman/man I know hates peta. But they are on this bandwagon. No other horse sport uses whips like we do. They don’t want our bad optics bringing bad light on their horse sports. So it is not just nutter peta pushing this.

Bad optics killed orca shows,circuses and dog racing.

[castaway01]

PETA’s response to the possible compromise was “They better not,” and a bunch of other misinformed nonsense.

This is where California needs to get a backbone and decide they are not going to let PETA dictate to them. Especially since PETA was non existent during the San Luis Rey fire.

The thing is, if PETA points out the many questionable ethical things going on in racing---and we've pointed them out here over and over again, so it's not like they have to make them up---no one is going to remember their lack of assistance after the fire. We all know they are inconsistent and at times purely unethical, but the current situation with breakdowns is going to win the day. Between the breakdowns and drugging, the value of land in California, the in-fighting in the Stronach empire, etc., racing is more vulnerable than you think.

[AlsoEligible]

Listening to the CHRB meeting now, so much for a compromise. Proposed rule would ban use of the crop "except when necessary to control the horse for the safety of the horse or rider."

Representative from the Jockeys Guild speaks up in opposition, and is torn apart by Winner and Auerbach.

Very clear that California is running scared from PETA...who, coincidentally, has someone speaking at the meeting right now in support of the new rule.

[Suff]

drone jocks are on their way

Not crazy. When you think Hail Mary. Life or death now. What are some crazy ideas that might kill it quick or light a fire?
No idea to much.

Drone Jockeys I like.

Cloning, DNA editing ( Xbleeding chromosomes), Artificial Skeletal Parts. Medical research. Turn them into part machine-part living being.

[cutchemist42]

Horse racing Twitter is really clueless tonight...

[Al Gobbi]

The California Horse Racing Board voted on Thursday to ban jockeys from using whips to urge their mounts, the first stage of a process that will take several months and fundamentally change the way races are ridden.

The rule will limit riders to using whips “when necessary to control the horse for the safety of the horse or rider.” The current rule allowing jockeys to use the whip three times in succession before pausing to give a horse a chance to respond will be eliminated.

The rule change was approved unanimously, by a vote of 5-0, and will be subject to a 45-day public comment period before the board votes on the matter again. It is possible that the language of the rule could be changed in coming months, pending public comments, which could further delay implementation.

Once approved by the board for the final time, the rule is subject to a review by the state’s office of administrative law before going into effect, possibly in the second half of the year.
https://www.drf.com/news/chrb-takes-first-step-toward-banning-whip-use-california?type=news/all-news

[bob60566]

https://www.drf.com/news/chrb-takes-first-step-toward-banning-whip-use-california?type=news/all-news

Please stand by normal service will resume as soon as possible.

Got to love people making decisions.

[taxicab]

Interesting:

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/op-ed-the-chrb-may-just-have-saved-the-sport-of-horse-racing/

[bobphilo]

Great idea. Now the naturally more competitive horses that run on their own courage have the advantage. Nothing wrong with that. Plus it will improve the optics of racing considerably.

[citygoat]

All they have to do is reduce the purse by 5% for everytime the horse gets whipped

[sharkie187]

Wonder if I can get some help on this issue.
Wherever you are, if you can take a selfie with a small post it on social media that reads
“No whips, no bets”.
Its small but it shows where CA tracks are being wagered on.
#nowhipsnobets on twitter.

Basically, its letting the CHRB know that you will not play a CA track if this rule goes into effect. The whip, when used correctly, is used to encourage a horse especially when its in contention or to make it stay focus when alone on the lead.

To be clear, this isn’t limited to Santa Anita, but ALL CA tracks (I think thats how I read it from the CHRB meeting).
I’ve been reviewing the latest runs at SA and there are many instances where I see a jock would’ve been out of the money without the use of his whip to encourage him to keep going.

I really want to attend the next CHRB meeting where they hear public comment on this matter and express my opinion as a horse player the vital need for a whip in a race and could use the hastag to show that there are others who think the same. Thanks!

[dilanesp]

Wonder if I can get some help on this issue.
Wherever you are, if you can take a selfie with a small post it on social media that reads
“No whips, no bets”.
Its small but it shows where CA tracks are being wagered on.
#nowhipsnobets on twitter.

Basically, its letting the CHRB know that you will not play a CA track if this rule goes into effect. The whip, when used correctly, is used to encourage a horse especially when its in contention or to make it stay focus when alone on the lead.

To be clear, this isn’t limited to Santa Anita, but ALL CA tracks (I think thats how I read it from the CHRB meeting).
I’ve been reviewing the latest runs at SA and there are many instances where I see a jock would’ve been out of the money without the use of his whip to encourage him to keep going.

I really want to attend the next CHRB meeting where they hear public comment on this matter and express my opinion as a horse player the vital need for a whip in a race and could use the hastag to show that there are others who think the same. Thanks!

So to be clear, as long as the horse might run slightly better, you don't care even if the jockey seriously abuses the animal?

That's a nonstarter here in California. We have a strong animal rights movement here. Enjoy playing other tracks.

[sharkie187]

So to be clear, as long as the horse might run slightly better, you don't care even if the jockey seriously abuses the animal?

That's a nonstarter here in California. We have a strong animal rights movement here. Enjoy playing other tracks.

This is about protecting the betting public. This is about a jockey’s earning a living. This is about trainers and owners and the tac crew earning a living based on how well their horse runs. Horses need encouragement to run a but more and to give more!
And a reporter from the guardian uk actually asked Champion jockey Jim Crowley to whip as hard as he does in a race...he reported that it didn’t hurt. So if it doesn’t the reporter, it shouldn’t hurt the horse.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2011/oct/18/jockeys-whip-didnt-hurt

[dilanesp]

This is about protecting the betting public. This is about a jockey’s earning a living. This is about trainers and owners and the tac crew earning a living based on how well their horse runs. Horses need encouragement to run a but more and to give more!
And a reporter from the guardian uk actually asked Champion jockey Jim Crowley to whip as hard as he does in a race...he reported that it didn’t hurt. So if it doesn’t the reporter, it shouldn’t hurt the horse.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2011/oct/18/jockeys-whip-didnt-hurt

None of that matters to the political situation in California (and I honestly don't believe claims that repeatedly hitting a horse doesn't hurt).

[jocko699]

Two horses down. Arms Runner and the mare La Sardane. FFffing sucks

[Dahossdaboss]

Two horses down. Arms Runner and the mare La Sardane. FFffing sucks

Looks like Arms Runner took a bad step as they crossed the dirt and La Sardane fell over him.

Terrible.

[jocko699]

Two horses down. Arms Runner and the mare La Sardane. FFffing sucks

RIP Arms Runner

[ubercapper]

This is about protecting the betting public. This is about a jockey’s earning a living. This is about trainers and owners and the tac crew earning a living based on how well their horse runs. Horses need encouragement to run a but more and to give more!
And a reporter from the guardian uk actually asked Champion jockey Jim Crowley to whip as hard as he does in a race...he reported that it didn’t hurt. So if it doesn’t the reporter, it shouldn’t hurt the horse.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2011/oct/18/jockeys-whip-didnt-hurt


The science in this video refutes that, and a lot more although it does do a good job of showing both sides of the argument.



https://youtu.be/pYv7j9e2z_0

[Scanman]

The science in this video refutes that, and a lot more although it does do a good job of showing both sides of the argument.



https://youtu.be/pYv7j9e2z_0I saw this video some time ago and it is easily the best review/analysis of the use of the whip. Anyone invested in its use or abolition should watch it.

Races prohibiting the use of the whip (to encouraging the horse to run faster) have already been contested in a few countries. And in each race, there was a winner. The best equine and human athlete prevailed.

For me, I support the rider carrying it for control/directional purposes and allowing 1 strike, back or fore handed; once per furlong only within the final 3 furlongs of a race.