Bush's latest tax plan

[ljb]

This from Business week online.
"President George W. Bush has the tax code back in his sights -- but this time he's not just talking about tax cuts. In his Sept. 2 speech to the Republican National Convention and on the stump since, he has called for making the tax system "fairer, simpler, and more pro-growth" than the current "complicated mess."

snip

...allowing investment income to go tax-free would have to be coupled with ending the tax deduction for interest paid by corporations and by homeowners on their mortgages -- a huge and far less popular change.
"

[kenwoodallpromos]

Repubs are for the rich and demos are for the upper middle class.
They both want to get rid of Nader. So what else is new?

[ljb]

Ken,
Does your reply have anything to do with the topic? I am having a hard time relating the two.

[ljb]

This is a real issue. Haven't you rightys figured out some way to smear Business week ?:D :D :D

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
This is a real issue. Haven't you rightys figured out some way to smear Business week ?:D :D :D


Why would we want to smear anyone who is not lying, like moveon.org, MM, cBS, YOU, etc?
:confused:

[ljb]

From Tom
Originally posted by ljb
This is a real issue. Haven't you rightys figured out some way to smear Business week ?

Tom's reply

Why would we want to smear anyone who is not lying, like moveon.org, MM, cBS, YOU, etc?
So then, what are your thoughts on eliminating mortgage interest as a tax deduction ?

[schweitz]

My thoughts----never happen.

[ljb]

Schweitz,
Never say never. This is a new and different group running the show now.
A couple of examples:
I never thought the Republicans would sway from their states rights position.
I never thought the Republicans would sway from their fiscal responsibility position.

[Equineer]

Originally posted by schweitz
My thoughts----never happen. The homeowner's real estate tax deduction is not under assault, but clearly something has to be done to deal with the huge deficits.

Some political strategists have floated the idea of eliminating two personal interest deductions: home mortgage interest expense and investment interest expense.

Whatever you think of this, the overriding consideration is to enable politicians to find tax revenues without having to publically endorse "higher taxes."

In the case of eliminating the two personal interest expense deductions, the spin attempts to convince Joe Schmoe that the rich are being asked to give up more than the poor, namely big deductions for margin account interest expenses that only the rich can qualify for, and interest on multi-million dollar mortgages that only the rich can obtain. This, of course, is pure nonsense, and lower/middle income voters would once again be duped.

If you think this won't fly, think twice. The special interests know that their time is now when the blanket of patriotism can cover many agendas.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by ljb
This from Business week online.
"President George W. Bush has the tax code back in his sights -- but this time he's not just talking about tax cuts. In his Sept. 2 speech to the Republican National Convention and on the stump since, he has called for making the tax system "fairer, simpler, and more pro-growth" than the current "complicated mess."

snip

...allowing investment income to go tax-free would have to be coupled with ending the tax deduction for interest paid by corporations and by homeowners on their mortgages -- a huge and far less popular change.
"

Ljb--Are you saying that the above are Bush's comments and if so please provide a link.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Equineer
The homeowner's real estate tax deduction is not under assault, but clearly something has to be done to deal with the huge deficits.

Some political strategists have floated the idea of eliminating two personal interest deductions: home mortgage interest expense and investment interest expense.

Whatever you think of this, the overriding consideration is to enable politicians to find tax revenues without having to publically endorse "higher taxes."

In the case of eliminating the two personal interest expense deductions, the spin attempts to convince Joe Schmoe that the rich are being asked to give up more than the poor, namely big deductions for margin account interest expenses that only the rich can qualify for, and interest on multi-million dollar mortgages that only the rich can obtain. This, of course, is pure nonsense, and lower/middle income voters would once again be duped.

If you think this won't fly, think twice. The special interests know that their time is now when the blanket of patriotism can cover many agendas.

You are right--I don't think it will fly.

[boxcar]

poor ljb confesses:
[/i]
Schweitz, Never say never. This is a new and different group running the show now. A couple of examples:

I never thought the Republicans would sway from their states rights position.
I never thought the Republicans would sway from their fiscal responsibility position.

Proof positive this guy rarely, if ever, thinks.

Boxcar

[Equineer]

Schweitz,

Tax reform is thorny because Republicans are smarter than Democrats. The gap between rich and poor has never been greater. This enables tax reform proposals get measured by comparing tax revenues from the rich to tax revenues from the poor. Republicans always look good from this perspective.

What should be measured is who gives up "what" when reforms are proposed. Democrats seem unable to articulate that taking $1 from the poor has greater impact than taking $1000 from the rich.

If your taxes are increased by $10,000, you may be left with less discretionary income, but even a $10 tax increase to someone who has no discretionary income (just massive credit debt) has severe consequences.

[ljb]

Boxcar,
You have entered my post in bold print, are you trying to say something?

[ljb]

From Schweitz
"Ljb--Are you saying that the above are Bush's comments and if so please provide a link.

No I am not saying these are Bush's comments, I am saying this is something the neo-cons are considering. And as you know the neo-cons are now running the show.
Bush, not wanting to offend his big bucks base will surely support this.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Equineer
Schweitz,because Republicans are smarter than Democrats.

which is why there will never be an elimination of the mortgage interest tax deduction........it would instantly stop the mortgage industry..........

In a much broader sense I agree with the quote...........

[chickenhead]

I'm not so sure I would necessarily be opposed to it. There are upsides to it. One being a more reasonable cost of housing. Second being less borrowing through seconds....could help with the national savings rate.

[ljb]

From Just Ralph
"quote:Originally posted by Equineer
Schweitz,because Republicans are smarter than Democrats.

which is why there will never be an elimination of the mortgage interest tax deduction........it would instantly stop the mortgage industry..........

Just like the elimination of credit card and auto loan interest shut down the credit card/auto loan business hey JR!
Your assumption sort of disproves the republicans being smart statement, don't you think?

[Equineer]

JustRalph,

You misquoted me... I never said, "Schweitz, because Republicans are smarter than Democrats."

You made "Schweitz" into a clause to serve your cause. If someone is inclined to exclaim "Nonsense, how ridiculous," would "JustRalph, how ridiculous," be synonymous?

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Equineer
JustRalph,

You misquoted me... I never said, "Schweitz, because Republicans are smarter than Democrats."

You made "Schweitz" into a clause to serve your cause. If someone is inclined to exclaim "Nonsense, how ridiculous," would "JustRalph, how ridiculous," be synonymous?

I want no part of being a clause for a cause---sounds uncomfortable :D ;)

[JustRalph]

I agree I manipulated the post for fun. Touche! Equin

On the subject of Mortgage interest and the difference in Credit card interest. The amounts financed are the diffrence. I have a 200k plus mortgage.........how many people do you know who have 200k in Credit Card debt? There probably are some out there.........but tons of people have mortgage amounts in that area and probably much higher since I live in a place where the real estate is pretty cheap compared to other places. LJB you are comparing the proverbial apples to oranges...........

[ljb]

Wrong answer JR,
Used to be all interest was deductible on income taxes. credit card and auto loans included. These are no longer deductible yet credit card debt, like the national debt, is at an all time high.
You've got one of them type two errors or is it type one ? One of the statiticians on board will have to help me on this. But it is the type where you think you are rignt but you are WRONG ! .
Also when or if the republicans eliminate this deduction will your tax cut cover the loss you will get from not being allowed the deduction? Just curious.
I say IF because there is a very likely chance the republicans won't be doing anything except crying come Nov. 3

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by ljb
Wrong answer JR,
Used to be all interest was deductible on income taxes. credit card and auto loans included.

Say what you will.........the amounts are so diverse, it is apples and oranges. Find me someone with 200k in Credit card debt etc. Remember, that is a low number.

[Equineer]

The mortgage interest deduction has become vulnerable because the new maximum standard deduction of $9400 applies to more people than you might think.

MSN ran a lengthy analysis by their tax/finance columnist that showed why itemized deductions may be a popular tax reform target everywhere except the two "gold" coasts. Median house prices in cities like Atlanta, St. Louis, plus many other cities are such that few families have itemized deductions that exceed $9400.

Politicians may propose eliminating the mortgage interest deduction as a way of counterbalancing tax cuts on investment income favored by special interests. Elimination of the interest deduction on big mortgages will sound like taxing the rich to those folks who cannot itemize today. But the result will not be merely a reduction in discretionary income for the debt-burdened middle class.

[ljb]

So what about it JR ? Will the tax cut cover the loss you are going to feel from not deducting your mortgage interest?