AZ OTB 'isues'

[spiketoo]

FTR, Monarch = Stronach.

Never been a big fan of Simms et al that own TP. Funny when he states what will happen if Stronach gives the 2 AZD OTBs their signal - "We're done. Turf Paradise is finished". Worse things have happened.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2019/01/15/turf-paradise-otb-monopoly-upsets-arizona-downs/2548349002/

[cj]

It all really comes down to this:

Furthermore, Monarch is embroiled in a lawsuit with a member of Arizona Downs' ownership team, Corey Johnson.

Daruty said, "Why would we choose to do business with these people? We distribute our product on a thoughtful approach designed to maximize revenues."

I'm friends with Corey so take my comment in that light, but I'd objectively bet any amount I'm right.

[GMB@BP]

Was just about to post this to other thread discussing Arizona Downs from a ways back.

I am not going to comment about Jerry Simms and his "associates", anyone can google it.

This is no surprise to say the least.

[AlsoEligible]

FTR, Monarch = Stronach.

Never been a big fan of Simms et al that own TP. Funny when he states what will happen if Stronach gives the 2 AZD OTBs their signal - "We're done. Turf Paradise is finished". Worse things have happened.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona/2019/01/15/turf-paradise-otb-monopoly-upsets-arizona-downs/2548349002/

To be fair, Simms quote is in response to what would happen if TSG yanked their signals from all of AZ, not what would happen if the OTBs also got the signals.

Auther asked commissioners to adopt a regulation forcing Monarch to provide a simulcast feed to all licensed OTB outlets in the state.

Simms then warned that, if commissioners tried to force Monarch to contract with Arizona Downs, the company would simply leave the state. In that case, he added, "We're done. Turf Paradise is finished."

It is funny (in sad way) to see how quick AZ Downs is willing to drop one of their founding partners to make this work:

Furthermore, Monarch is embroiled in a lawsuit with a member of Arizona Downs' ownership team, Corey Johnson.

Daruty said, "Why would we choose to do business with these people? We distribute our product on a thoughtful approach designed to maximize revenues."

At Thursday's Racing Commission meeting, Auther said Arizona Downs agreed to drop Johnson as a partner, but Monarch still refused to supply simulcasts.

It's a dog eat dog world out there.

[Afleet]

AZ sounds like a phuked up place

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Knowing the ins and outs of the state, it is really sad what they allow TP to get away with

[spiketoo]

Bill HB2547 that I think in essence says that Monarch has to give there sig to all was approved by legislature here and sent to gov last week. He has until today June 5th to do something with it and if he does nothing it will become law.

Interesting to see what happens other then TP whining like a cow.

[Clocker]

I have talked to some folks down there, and there is a lot of "he said, she said" going on. Rumor is that there is bad blood between Monarch and some folks at Az Downs due to prior relations elsewhere. The bill says that Monarch has to provide service under the same terms and conditions to all tracks in Az.

One rumor is that Monarch is threatening to pull out of Az if they are required to do this. I also heard that the governor has until June 8 to sign it, but have no confirmation of that.

[spiketoo]

Yeah check out the TP site - they're saying they'll have to close their doors if this passes as they say Monarch will pull their sig from the simul. Boo hoo hoo. No loss if TP were to close...

My understanding is that the gov has until today to sign\veto it. Inaction and it automatically becomes law. Checking some sites to try and get status.

[Clocker]

The AZ Gov has signed the bill into law. TuP and Monarch will challenge it in federal court. It is still not clear whether Monarch can't comply with the law, or just doesn't want to.



Turf Paradise remains hopeful that a new Arizona law, HB2547, will be invalidated in federal court.
​A request for a temporary injunction will soon be filed by the Phoenix-based track. That’s because HB2547 is a violation of federal law. Both Turf Paradise and Monarch Content Management which supplies such tracks as Santa Anita, Del Mar, Gulfstream Park, Pimlico, Laurel Park, Golden Gate Fields, Los Alamitos, Meadowlands, and Tampa Bay Downs will be challenging this law in federal court.
​
Hopefully, the courts will do what the State of Arizona failed to do and that is stand up for horse racing in Arizona and respect federal law. Without this relief signals from these tracks will stop in 90 days and all horse racing in Arizona will be imperiled as critical signals from these horse racing tracks across the country are withdrawn for all tracks in the state.
http://www.turfparadise.com/latest-news/statement-on-hb2547-being-signed-into-law

[spiketoo]

Maybe they can get on the docket after the whining Wests.

If only they would close their doors then we could get interweb wagering here. Races wouldn't be missed tho hate to see the 4 mutual clerks lose their jobs (actually more clerks at their OTBs than on track. Nicer too.)

[spiketoo]

Their whining continues....

https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2019/06/11/new-horse-racing-law-could-lead-to-lawsuit/

I believe cj is correct in that Monarch has a bug up its azz for a lawsuit they lost a couple years back when Johnson was at KD and they dumped Monarch and went elsewhere for their historical racing software.

The good thing that would come if both held true and Monarch pulled its sig and TP closed is that we'd probably get web-based ADW back. Had it for a few years and then Vince whined the track was losing $$$ since they get less from ADW bets then OTB takeout.

And Monarch President Scott Daruty couldn't be more disingenuous with this statement:

He said Monarch also has been selling its signal to Arizona Downs for teletrack wagering at its Prescott Valley facility. What it is not willing to do, Daruty said, is sell to Arizona Downs’ six OTB sites, including three in the Phoenix area that he said are close to OTB sites operated by Turf, two of them within one mile.

“We’re a business and we want to see our product distributed successfully,” he said. “And we don’t think that sort of marketplace works.”

He compared it to someone wanting to set up a McDonald’s franchise, telling the corporation they know it’s a good location because it’s across the street from an existing McDonald’s.

“They’re going to tell you to get lost,” Daruty said.

“They’re not going into new markets and creating new distribution for our product,” he said. “What they’re really doing is, I believe, going out and trying to just cannibalize or just cherry-pick off of the business that Turf Paradise has and hope that they can attract some of it over to their location.”

Bullsheet. You can draw a triangle around the THREE closest TP OTBs to be me and the longest distance you's travel from one to another is 7 miles. And the newest was opened just a year ago. Not across the street but all penetrating\cannibalizing the same market

That is all (for now).

[AlsoEligible]

Yeah, I'd say Daruty's concerns about the proximity of OTBs is disingenuous, and they really just have a beef with AZD/Johnsen that goes back to his KYD days.

That said, I really hate this law. And Daruty brings up a couple good points that I think could result it in being struck down by a higher court:

One issue, said Daruty, is the 1978 federal Interstate Horseracing Act which is designed to ensure that states do not use their own laws to interfere with interstate off-track wagering. Then there is the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution that has its own limits on the ability of states to interfere in matters of interstate commerce.

If Monarch/TSG doesn't want to do business with AZD, for whatever reason, that's their prerogative. It sucks for AZD (for now; if they put on a good live racing product that Monarch/XpressBet patrons want to wager on, then suddenly they'll have more leverage to negotiate a deal).....and this kind of in-fighting isn't good for racing, but it should not be the concern of the government.

This would be like a state mandating that out-of-state distributors have to sell their products to every retail store within the state, at the same wholesale price. That's not how a free market works, nor should it be.

[spiketoo]

Well we knew this was coming...

Interesting that now the media slant is that AZD says their biz model is in jeopardy if they don't get all sigs for their OTBs. Prior to the law passing TuP was whining that they'd have to close their dump if it DID pass.

Company sues over new Arizona law that forces it to share horse-racing simulcasts

https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2019/08/12/off-track-betting-company-challenges-2019-law/

[AlsoEligible]

Say what you will about TSG/Monarch, but the more I see of this new law, the more I think they're in the right.

Potentially more significant, it gives the Arizona Racing Commission the authority to review any contracts to determine whether the fees are “excessive or unreasonable” by comparing it to what is charged to others and determining whether the practices are “anti-competitive or deceptive.”

So not only is the state mandating that a private company has to do business with all racing licensees in the state, but they can also veto those contracts if they find the terms "unreasonable", and no one knows what "unreasonable" means. Yeesh, talk about government overreach.

I feel for AZD but if Monarch doesn't want to come to the table, then tough shit. Find another way to get people in the doors, or close them. Sooner or later this industry needs retraction, and it needs the free market to help get us there. Having state governments circumvent that may help a few in the short term, but hurts everyone in the long run.

[spiketoo]

I think all parties in this are being a bit disingenuous at best, but honestly if TuP didn't squash online ADW wagering after trying it for a year, this probably would mostly be moot. But I digress...

AZD probably shouldn't have their OTBs w/n a few miles of existing TuP OTBs. Like McD's, there probably should be some geo limitions on distance between competitors of the same signals. That being said, a couple do exist and I believe they receive the same signals with the exception of Monarchs content.

TuP was whining all along that if the law passed and Monarch shared their sig with AZD OTBs that TuP would close as 44% of their churn is from OTBs (or some number like that). Again each tracks OTBs are receiving the same signals with the exception noted above tho I think AZD has a few that TuP doesn't carry.

Monarch is the biggest azz here IMHO. Besides Daruty having an issue with Johnson for previously using another vendors software at KD, they do sell their signal to AZDs main plant for simul. So they'll sell it 'here' but not sell it 'there'.
That's what the issue is. Again, if they want to use geo location limitations and say won't sell within XX amount of miles of an existing OTB than that makes a bit more 'sense' than just saying 'nope, TuP says no and BTW we don't like you' (but FTR, they do sell the sig to TuP OTBs that just miles down the street from the main TuP plant - go fig). Capitalism in a democracy (actually Republic) has limitations.

[ReplayRandall]

Arizona has many, many issues on numerous fronts and is a tough place to live a good life.....Notoriously corrupt for decades in Govt., Law Enforcement, Corp. Businesses, to name a few....

It was a great place back in the 60's thru 80's, but is just terrible now....Especially Phoenix...:ThmbDown:

[GMB@BP]

Arizona has many, many issues on numerous fronts and is a tough place to live a good life.....Notoriously corrupt for decades in Govt., Law Enforcement, Corp. Businesses, to name a few....

It was a great place back in the 60's thru 80's, but is just terrible now....Especially Phoenix...:ThmbDown:

Ummm, my life is pretty good here. Being a horse player it sucks for sure, no one dare argue that one.

[ReplayRandall]

Ummm, my life is pretty good here. Being a horse player it sucks for sure, no one dare argue that one.
I'm happy for you....You're one of the few...:cool:

[speldedo]

Have to agree, live here as well and not many complaints outside of horse racing. Oh wait, it was 111 today and Kyler Murray looked horrible tonight!

[ReplayRandall]

Have to agree, live here as well and not many complaints outside of horse racing. Oh wait, it was 111 today and Kyler Murray looked horrible tonight!
You live in a gated community or on a small ranch out in Paradise Valley?

[speldedo]

No, moved here from Buffalo!