Bush goes to U.N. with tail tween his legs

[ljb]

G.W. Bush went to the U.N. today. Seems he told them he had totally (Cheney expletive deleted) 'ed up. Asked them if they would bail his ass out. Said "back in the old days when I totally (Cheney expletive deleted)'ed up, my daddy would bail my ass out. I asked daddy for help in this and he said Bar sez what goes around comes around son, sorry." :D :D :D

[Larry Hamilton]

I agree.

What he should have done in his speech was tell the members they could keep the building, gratis, but leave the USA now, you may take the building with you. You may not take all the grants we have given over the years. And oh, by the way, if we decide to straighten out Iran, dont get in the way.

[Tom]

Ljb, you need to get yourself a dictionary. I think you need to look up some words.
Bush gave a steller speech that showed what the UN is all about - failure. Kagi Annon should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. He is a little puke who thinks he is some kind of great leader. He is a little insignificant POS who is not fit to kiss Bush's arse. He is a coward and the preside over an organiztion full of worst criminal thant he mafia ever had.
The UN is a joke and it is pollution to NYC. I agree with Larry - kick them out, level the building, and sla tht eearth is stands on.
We should not be allowing the misfits and mental midgets walk our streets. I would rather eat sitting next to a rat than a UN ambassador from any 3rd-4th-5th rate POS country.
I am sure some pople here have betting bankrolls larger thant he budgets of some these nation-wannabes.

[JustRalph]

Send Trump in there and have him "Fire" Koffi

Then give the building to Trump and turn it into a casino..........

[WALLENDA]

Originally posted by Tom
Ljb, you need to get yourself a dictionary. I think you need to look up some words.
Bush gave a steller speech that showed what the UN is all about - failure. Kagi Annon should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. He is a little puke who thinks he is some kind of great leader. He is a little insignificant POS who is not fit to kiss Bush's arse. He is a coward and the preside over an organiztion full of worst criminal thant he mafia ever had.
The UN is a joke and it is pollution to NYC. I agree with Larry - kick them out, level the building, and sla tht eearth is stands on.
We should not be allowing the misfits and mental midgets walk our streets. I would rather eat sitting next to a rat than a UN ambassador from any 3rd-4th-5th rate POS country.
I am sure some pople here have betting bankrolls larger thant he budgets of some these nation-wannabes.



Very well said!!! *APPLAUSE*

[wes]

The UN is about effective as it's twin sister the Leagur of Nations.
Which was started in 1920 and ended in 1946. After WWII the Same old thing with a new name United Nations. I think there were 63
nations that belonged to the League of Nations at one time. Only 28
countrys were members the entire period.

United Nations did not have a very good start when formed. Like to see the USA get the hell out. Send all those who are taking up space home. It's a pink elephant for the American People. No one want's to talk about how much the USA has spent on such a crappy outfit called the UNITED NATIONS.


wes

[fmazur]

LJB posted

Bush goes to U.N. with tail between his legs


Questions to ljb. Is there some kind of filter liberals have when they listen to speeches? Do their brains cease functioning when Bush says something?

I suggest you go back and listen to the speech again.

[ljb]

Ok guys I'll fess up.
I did not listen to Bush's campaign speech at the U.N. From what I hear Bush basically continued in his efforts to Piss Off the world.
The New York Times has an editorial regarding his campaign speech. I have taken the liberty to paste it here.
***********************************************

We did not expect President Bush to come before the United Nations in the middle of his re-election campaign and acknowledge the serious mistakes his administration has made on Iraq. But that still left plenty of room for him to take advantage of this one last chance to appeal to an increasingly antagonistic world to help the Iraqis secure and rebuild their shattered nation and prepare for elections in just four months. Instead, Mr. Bush delivered an inexplicably defiant campaign speech in which he glossed over the current dire situation in Iraq for an audience acutely aware of the true state of affairs, and scolded them for refusing to endorse the American invasion in the first place.
***********************************************
Bush just don't get it does he?

[sq764]

Wow, how unusual for the NY Times to run an anti-Bush editorial..

Do you ever read any fair news media? Or just enjoy the Bush bashing ones? Figured so..

[ljb]

Ok here are a few quotes from others.

It's not just Democrats who are questioning the President's grip on reality.

Senator Chuck Hagel (NE), a Republican, says: "The worst thing we can do is hold ourselves hostage to some grand illusion that we're winning. Right now, we are not winning. Things are getting worse." "The fact is, we're in trouble. We're in deep trouble in Iraq."

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) also supports releasing the NIE and says: "We made serious mistakes right after the initial successes by not having enough troops there on the ground, by allowing the looting, by not securing the borders."

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), says "he believes the situation in Iraq is going to get worse before it gets better, adding that he believes the administration has done a 'poor job of implementing and adjusting at times.'" and says "We do not need to paint a rosy scenario for the American people...."

Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN) says it's "exasperating for anybody look at this from any vantage point."

Those are Republicans talking.

Now what do you think ? biased ?

[fmazur]

ljb

You are now comparing apples and oranges. None of what you just posted has anything to do with the UN speech by Bush. Just typical liberal garbage, when proven wrong go on to something else.

[boxcar]

LJB posted

Bush goes to U.N. with tail between his legs

fmazur replied:

Questions to ljb. Is there some kind of filter liberals have when they listen to speeches? Do their brains cease functioning when Bush says something

I suggest you go back and listen to the speech again .

Good point, Fmazur -- most especially when LJB's newest hero and U.S. and World Savior's take on the speech was that Bush was arrogant and "lectured" the U.N. Ironically, I agree with the part about lecturing, for that body of Useless Numbskulls (for the most part) needs lecturing...and then some!

Boxcar

[sq764]

LJB, these were quotes from the NY Times about Bush's speech?? Wow, kind of odd responses out of the blue about the war, in reference to his speech..

Or are we selectively pulling quotes from all over the place to try to salvage a point here?

[Equineer]

At the United Nations, in a joint press conference with the (U.S. appointed) interim Iraqi leader, it was disappointing to hear Bush say our latest (pessimistic) NIE report represents "just guessing" by our intelligence agencies. My god, we are finally on the ground right in Iraq! Before the war, when we had little or no presence in Iraq, Bush sold the invasion based on WMD intelligence from the same agencies! The "just guessing" remark makes us really sound stupid... since I watched him say it on CNN International, which is what the world watches.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by ljb
Ok guys I'll fess up.
I did not listen to Bush's campaign speech at the U.N. From what I hear Bush basically continued in his efforts to Piss Off the world.
The New York Times has an editorial regarding his campaign speech. I have taken the liberty to paste it here.
***********************************************

We did not expect President Bush to come before the United Nations in the middle of his re-election campaign and acknowledge the serious mistakes his administration has made on Iraq. But that still left plenty of room for him to take advantage of this one last chance to appeal to an increasingly antagonistic world to help the Iraqis secure and rebuild their shattered nation and prepare for elections in just four months. Instead, Mr. Bush delivered an inexplicably defiant campaign speech in which he glossed over the current dire situation in Iraq for an audience acutely aware of the true state of affairs, and scolded them for refusing to endorse the American invasion in the first place.
***********************************************
Bush just don't get it does he?
From a canadians point of view

The USA needs to scold these other countries,Most of these crybabie country has done nothing but prosper because of the USA.Th problem I see is people are used to a different kind of war where its fought on the beaches and won, This is a war where you dont know who your enemy is until its too late.Iraq dearly needs help and Im sure once all is fine and dandy, These countries (Canada Included ) will be looking to invest in the iraqi economy.I thinks its very wrong not to help the USA..The USA is the first country to ever offer help to other places when needed,Whats the big deal?. All these beheadings would never happened if everybody pulled together and had this thing called iraq finished.I do agress with your president, I think he has doe a fine job, Most of hs presidency has been under the gun.Everybody makes mistakes and yes im sure more will be made, Do you think J kerry could come in and actually make it all better.

[ljb]

McSchell
Just curious,
As a Canadian, how much time do you spend in Florida?

[sq764]

Ljb, as a Frenchman, how much time do you spend in Michigan/Arizona?

[Tom]

Ljb, as a whatever it is you are, how much time do you spend on earth?

Really, guys. cut Ljb som eslack...he is out $100 on his Cat Stevens concert tickets. :D

[Tom]

McSchell......Thank you.
I'll take Canada and Britain over ALL the outher countries combines. :D

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by ljb
McSchell
Just curious,
As a Canadian, how much time do you spend in Florida?

Dear Sir,I am a legal resident,I spent 12k for getting all my papers in order,It took me 4 years just to get my ss number and a work visa,I have my stable at Calder in Miami..Why do you ask?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by ljb
Ok here are a few quotes from others.

It's not just Democrats who are questioning the President's grip on reality.

Senator Chuck Hagel (NE), a Republican, says: "The worst thing we can do is hold ourselves hostage to some grand illusion that we're winning. Right now, we are not winning. Things are getting worse." "The fact is, we're in trouble. We're in deep trouble in Iraq."

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) also supports releasing the NIE and says: "We made serious mistakes right after the initial successes by not having enough troops there on the ground, by allowing the looting, by not securing the borders."

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), says "he believes the situation in Iraq is going to get worse before it gets better, adding that he believes the administration has done a 'poor job of implementing and adjusting at times.'" and says "We do not need to paint a rosy scenario for the American people...."

Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN) says it's "exasperating for anybody look at this from any vantage point."

Those are Republicans talking.

Now what do you think ? biased ?

Todays Miami Herald says BUSH now ahead in the polls..They say the hurricanes have bonded the Bush brothers to Florida, Showing pix and clips of the 2 brothers helping hand out water.Looks lke J kerry ( old Stoneface ) will miss out in florida as the voters love the governor and that may sway the state against kerry..I may be talking out my butt on this but its just my opinion

[ljb]

McShiels response

" Dear Sir,I am a legal resident,I spent 12k for getting all my papers in order,It took me 4 years just to get my ss number and a work visa,I have my stable at Calder in Miami..Why do you ask?


_
I asked the question because you had stated an opinion in a previous thread as a Canadian. No big deal. I was just curious. others on this board seem to get upset over such simple questions. Please forgive me if I offended you, no offense intended.

[Tom]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
Dear Sir,I am a legal resident,I spent 12k for getting all my papers in order,It took me 4 years just to get my ss number and a work visa,I have my stable at Calder in Miami..Why do you ask?

And as one who is gainfully employeed and pays his taxes, you are already ahead of at least 80% of the registered democrates:D

[Buckeye]

They need to turn in their membership and just admit "we are actually Democrats."

Would make sense to me. ;)

[Buckeye]

Italy might be third.

No, make that second, they're ahead of the Canadians.

[Tom]

Kerry's plan for the War on Terror....

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Tom
Kerry's plan for the War on Terror....

He does speak fluent French

[46zilzal]

Continue to think about all those dumb schmucks who have not experienced life enough to think they are actually putting their asses on the line for something. Wake up. You're there to make Halliburton and their ilk RICH.

Greater than 50,000 dead so we could keep selling helicopters for the fat cats wasn't lesson enough? Did we ever LIBERATE Vietnam?

SEVEN fellows in my high school graduating class never saw their 25th birthday and now the idiots are at it again and no one notices? These are warmongers in office. They are an embarassment to all that the U.S. stands for and they are uisng FEAR to sell this piece of crap war to the public just like they do every time.

I tell my young friends who have never seen it to watch "Coming Home." To take special notice fo John Voight's speech to high school students at the end. Very quickly these poor schmucks fade into the background and the ONE thing they learn is war settles nothing, especailly when it is totally unnecessary.

[46zilzal]

I get a real kick out of reading political posts. Ideologies are NOT black and white the way many would like to characterize them. The right would have ANYONE who disagrees with people whom we VOTE INTO OIFFICE, and are there, in theory to WORK for our wishes as LIBERAL because they question what that elected official does and get label un-patriotic. In the fifties the same poeple migh get labeled as eggheads or beatnicks, in the 60's hippies or yuppies......etc. whatever the popular vernacluar of the day might be. The left , in turn, has labels for the conservatives as well.

Because an idea is uttered by a Dem or Republican does not mean it is true. We have brains, and (some of us are lucky enough to have) an education to decide.

When someone questions soemthing, WHATEVER TIS IS, they believe it can be accomplished better that's all. Don't need labels, just the notion that there is NO ONE WAY to do anything, and as a matter of fact there are LOTS of ways.

[dav4463]

There is ONLY ONE WAY to fight radical Islamic terrorists. It is to kick their ass before they kick yours. Plain and simple. President Bush will fight....John Kerry will not.....I'm voting for Bush.

[Buckeye]

Actually, there is only one right way (best way) to do anything.

As for who escalated the Vietnam conflict, I do believe it was a liberal who did that.

Would you call Lincoln a right winger? How about George Washington or FDR?

Just vote for Kerry.

[ljb]

From Dave
"There is ONLY ONE WAY to fight radical Islamic terrorists. It is to kick their ass before they kick yours. Plain and simple. President Bush will fight....John Kerry will not.....I'm voting for Bush. "
Dave,
The radical Islamic terrorists were from Saudi arabia, they hid in Afghanistan/Pakistan, they were also strong in Indonesia and Yemen. President Bush invaded Iraq ? Who is he fighting? We are losing in Iraq, while Osama and his apprentices are planning their next attack safely somewhere in the mountains. We need a better plan !
We now know that Iran harbored al queada and has nuke capabilities. Iraq-- Iran Oh I see they were only off by one letter, not bad in a world with so many countries.
:D :D :D

[sq764]

Hey LJB, what did you hero Clinton do to stop Osama and his clan? You seem to overlook the fact that 9/11 was planned during his administration.. I guess it's just easier to blame the Republicans.. Makes sense..

[ljb]

Clinton told the Bushites "Osama will be your greatest threat." Just like the PDB said "Osama determined to strike in U.S." The Bushites responded with a round of golf.
ps.
Clinton ain't running this time.

[sq764]

No he's not running, but I believe just yesterday you said you wish the 2 term limit was lifted so he could run again..

Funny how you bash Bush, but you would want a guy back in office that did nothing to address terrorism.. Typical hypocricy..

[ljb]

sq764,
You are getting better at your spinning efforts, have you been watching faux news?
Clinton did not invade a country that had no ties to al queada! But like we said, alas he is not running this time.

[sq764]

Not spinning, just asking you (again) what Clinton did to address terrorism and Osama.. Just waiting for an answer..

[hcap]

Isn't it amazing that anytime we criticize the current bush administration, the hackneyed comeback is "hey so did clinton, so there!".

Well, in order to provide additional fuel for a nifty comeback-other than it's clinton's fault, I submit the following


How many members of the Bush Administration does it take to replace a light bulb?

The Answer is TEN:
1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed
2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs
to be changed
3. One to blame Clinton for burning off the light bulb
4. One to tell the nations of the world that they are either: "For changing the
light bulb or for darkness"
5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Haliburton for
the new light bulb
6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor,
standing on a stepladder under the banner "Light Bulb Change Accomplished"
7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting
in detail how Bush was literally "in the dark"
8. One to viciously smear #7
9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has
had a strong light bulb-changing policy all along
10. And finally one to confuse Americans about the difference
between screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.

[sq764]

What you fail to realize is that Bush stepped into a pile of shit that was left by the former administration (which just happened to be Clinton's)..

9/11 occurred during Bush's tenure, but in reality it happened during Clinton's.. 8 years of not addressing terrorism resulted in 9/11..

For the hand Bush was dealt on terrorism, he is doing a pretty damn good job... But please don't reflect on the situation leading up to 9/11, it would be too logical for you Dems to get through your thick skulls.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by JustRalph
He does speak fluent French
Speaking of the french..This country to me is the one to watch..Dont trust the french goverment,The french president seems to love the fact that the USA is going it alone, This is a guy who will backstab us for his gain.He is a puke, Kind of reminds me of the french Canadian goverment wanting to seperate form the Canadian goverment.This guy loves to kick a dog when he is down and then screams fowl when he doesnt get his own way.I still say the french goverment had dealing with Iraq and iran..We just havent got all the answers yet. Thats why they were so opposed to this war

[sq764]

Chirac should feel personally responsible for all the terror and bombings in Europe. It's a known fact that he sold weapons to Pakistan and God only knows where they were shipped to.

It's ironic how France wants to be the peacekeeper and lay low, when in reality they have been one of the biggest contributors to terrorism..

[Derek2U]

You seem like a harmless village idiot so I'm gonna spare you any
criticism. "I will say that the French Gov't had dealing with Iraq
and Iran." ---- wow, McSchell, beautifully said. I'm convinced.
Now ... to real prose that did make its creator, at age 19, rich &
famous.
"A strange melancholy pervades me, to which I hestitate to give
the grave and beautiful name of sorrow."
So began Francoise Sagan's novel "Bonjour Tristesse." She died
yesterday in France and I read her obit now in the NY Times.
When I met my wife Solange she set-out to make me love things
French and one of her fav movies was "Bonjour Tristesse." We saw it and it was ~B movie to me, but hey .... Classic French
food has way to much butter (which I HatE) but French clothing
is 2nd only to Italian --- but my point is this: this French bashing
is lame & it's a DISTRACTION once again. A lover's quarrel that
WILL pass. And why should anyone rubber stamp policy when
so many bona fide VOTING & POLITICALLY ACTIVE guys like me
HATE ~254 Bush doings? If Bush Wins or Loses is NOT the issue
to me --- but THINK about what's at stake & STOP just parroting
slogans. ***

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
sq764,
You are getting better at your spinning efforts, have you been watching faux news?
Clinton did not invade a country that had no ties to al queada! But like we said, alas he is not running this time.

Yerah, he just stood there doing nothing after they attacked the USS Cole. He repeatedly failed to stop OBL when he had the chance. Terrorism came of age un Clinton. The 9-11-01 attacks where already in motion and some of them already here during his term. And you want him back? You are brain dead after all.

[Tom]

Originally posted by hcap
Isn't it amazing that anytime we criticize the current bush administration, the hackneyed comeback is "hey so did clinton, so there!".

Well, in order to provide additional fuel for a nifty comeback-other than it's clinton's fault, I submit the following


How many members of the Bush Administration does it take to replace a light bulb?

The Answer is TEN:
1. One to deny that a light bulb needs to be changed
2. One to attack the patriotism of anyone who says the light bulb needs
to be changed
3. One to blame Clinton for burning off the light bulb
4. One to tell the nations of the world that they are either: "For changing the
light bulb or for darkness"
5. One to give a billion dollar no-bid contract to Haliburton for
the new light bulb
6. One to arrange a photograph of Bush, dressed as a janitor,
standing on a stepladder under the banner "Light Bulb Change Accomplished"
7. One administration insider to resign and write a book documenting
in detail how Bush was literally "in the dark"
8. One to viciously smear #7
9. One surrogate to campaign on TV and at rallies on how George Bush has
had a strong light bulb-changing policy all along
10. And finally one to confuse Americans about the difference
between screwing a light bulb and screwing the country.

http://www.barbneal.com/wav/ltunes/foghorn/fogleg33.wav

[Tom]

Originally posted by JustRalph
He does speak fluent French



http://www.barbneal.com/wav/addams/speakfr.wav

[betchatoo]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tom
. Terrorism came of age un Clinton. The 9-11-01 attacks where already in motion and some of them already here during his term. QUOTE]

Tom:

The fact is that 9-11 took place under Bush' watch. He'd been in office almost a year and the country was his responsibility no matter when the plot started. But instead those around him do a parroting of "It's Clinton's fault," instead. Whatever happened to the philosophy of "the buck stops here?" No, with Bush if something goes wrong it's somebody elses fault. However,if things go right, he's happy to take credit.

I want a President who is willing to take full responsibility for those things that happen under his administration. Is Kerry that man? Frankly, I don't know. I just know that Bush isn't.

[sq764]

Betchatoo, you mention that the 'buck must stop here'. Fair enough.

Let me ask you one question. How many terrror attacks have occurred in the US since 9/11/01?

Just want a numeric answer please..

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by sq764
Betchatoo, you mention that the 'buck must stop here'. Fair enough.

Let me ask you one question. How many terrror attacks have occurred in the US since 9/11/01?

Just want a numeric answer please..

None. Now answer, how many terrorist attacks took place in the US between the time of the first Trade Center bombing in '92 and 2001? Clinton must have been on top of his game, huh?

[sq764]

So you want a president that addresses the issue of terrorism with "the buck stops here" attitude.. And we have had zero occurrences since 9/11, with Bush in office..

AND Bush is not the man for the job.. Maybe you need to rethink what you are really looking for in a president, because there are some holes in your logic..

[Tom]

Originally posted by betchatoo
None. Now answer, how many terrorist attacks took place in the US between the time of the first Trade Center bombing in '92 and 2001? Clinton must have been on top of his game, huh?

Nope. Blackhawk attacks, USS COle, all attacks on the US by OBL. I do not say 9-11-01 was all Clinton's fault...but then idiots like LJB keep putting that sorry sack of shot on a pedastile, I have to remind them that o other president inthe history of our country allowed so many foreign attacks upon us as thie slug did. His complete failure as a president led to the growth of terrorism. Bush made mistakes, but he was QUICK to rectify them and I know this moron Kerry will only allow millions to die in terror attacks. Kerry - death to America.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by sq764
So you want a president that addresses the issue of terrorism with "the buck stops here" attitude.. And we have had zero occurrences since 9/11, with Bush in office..

AND Bush is not the man for the job.. Maybe you need to rethink what you are really looking for in a president, because there are some holes in your logic..

Gee SQ:

I took logic as part of my math and statistics in college (and yes, I passed with A's) and I fail to see the IF A and B then C sequence in your statement.

Not having terrorist attacks since 9-11 may have nothing to do with the Bush Presidency, but even if I were to concede the point (for sake of argument) it doesn't show how Bush has taken any more responsibility for his actions or stopped "the blame game."

[sq764]

It's not even the USS Cole and 9/11 that are the scary part about Clinton..

It was the failed attempt on The SULLIVANS, a Navy boat, which led up to the USS Cole being attacked.. Why was nothing done when the first attempt failed??

Or in 1995 when another terrorist attack was thwarted when Osama planned to hijack some french planes and hit the Eiffel tower... Clinton's administration was well aware and warned about this, but did nothing.. Wonder what ever came of the idea of hijacking planes and hitting something... oh yeah.............

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by sq764
It's not even the USS Cole and 9/11 that are the scary part about Clinton..

It was the failed attempt on The SULLIVANS, a Navy boat, which led up to the USS Cole being attacked.. Why was nothing done when the first attempt failed??

Or in 1995 when another terrorist attack was thwarted when Osama planned to hijack some french planes and hit the Eiffel tower... Clinton's administration was well aware and warned about this, but did nothing.. Wonder what ever came of the idea of hijacking planes and hitting something... oh yeah.............

SQ:

Whether or not Clinton should have done more is not the point. It's a debate we could have had in 1996. Still seems to me that 9-11happened after Clinton left office. Who was president then? Who was responsible for our security? Hadn't he been briefed by that time?

[Lefty]

Of course you forget about the 3-4 chances Clinton had to get Bin Ladin and didn't and you forget about the "wall" Dems constructed to keep agencies from communicating with each other. And now you have a candidate who can't make up his mind from one day to another whether he's for or against the war and he's supposed to keep the country safe? I think not.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by betchatoo
SQ:Whether or not Clinton should have done more is not the point. It's a debate we could have had in 1996. Still seems to me that 9-11happened after Clinton left office. Who was president then? Who was responsible for our security? Hadn't he been briefed by that time?

yes in fact he was briefed. And two days before 9-11 he had a meeting with the national security staff and they had decided to go after OBL. This was in the 9-11 report and testified to by Powell in the hearings. They have also concluded that the threat assessment by the Clinton Team was wrong. It did not weigh the OBL threat as heavily as it should have. In fact Richard Clarke was glorified during the hearings because he supposedly had been screaming for "years and years" that these threats were coming. You don't turn around a government in 8 months.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by JustRalph
yes in fact he was briefed. And two days before 9-11 he had a meeting with the national security staff and they had decided to go after OBL. This was in the 9-11 report and testified to by Powell in the hearings. They have also concluded that the threat assessment by the Clinton Team was wrong. It did not weigh the OBL threat as heavily as it should have. In fact Richard Clarke was glorified during the hearings because he supposedly had been screaming for "years and years" that these threats were coming. You don't turn around a government in 8 months.

JR:

Still missing my point. I don't hold Bush at fault for 9-11 (I don't hold anyone at fault but the terrorist scum that planned and did the attack), but I do say it was his administration in charge and therefore his responsibility. The Clinton administration can't be held responsible they weren't there then. So, instead of pointing fingers and saying "it was him that done it," i want a man who says, "okay, this happened on my watch, I will take responsibilty of what happened and fix it."

For those people (and obviously I am not among them) that feel he has done things right since then, applaud him for that, but stop the blame game. If you're the new manager of a team you don't blame the old manager (At least not if you're the real deal) because your middle relief doesn't hold up. You take responsibility and fix the problem

[sq764]

Betchatoo, so you honestly believe that a president can, in 8 months, effectively address the nation's security risks AND address the terror plots that were in the works during the previous 8 years?? All this in 8 months?

If so, then yes, under your criteria, Bush failed the country.. Completely and entirely.

I guess it's all relative as to seeing things realistically..

[Larry Hamilton]

This aint baseball, it's life and deat h.

Clinton gutted our military, security, and intelligence and is PRIMARILY responsible for the consequences. That is a fact supported by actual counts of money and personnel. He gutted the very things necessary to preclude an invasion of our country.

Bush has been building up as quickly as Congress allows.

And you want to blame Bush using some stupid ass baseball analogy?

[Lefty]

And don't forget it took many months for Bush to make the transition to the office. The Pres that's leaving always offers a transition team to help with this but Clinton and his peopledid not and even trashed offices and stole things like teen vandals. Yeah, he was a big help. Hey, what's Kerry's position on the war today? Haven't heard yet.

[betchatoo]

Lefty, SQ, Larry:

Not one of you got my point (in fact in some ways you made my point) and I will not go on and on with this.

Never did I blame Bush. But when you take a job, any job, the responsibility for what happens is yours from day one. Accept it, make things better, don't point fingers. That's what leaders do

[sq764]

If you want a baseball analogy, use Frank Robinson, manager of the Expos..

He was left with no stars, no pitching and a bunch of cheap players.. Not to mention an attendance averaging less than 10,000 per game.

What could he do the first year? Or even the second year? Is he responsible for the horrible record of his team, even thoughhe was left with ruins? Sure.. Is the expectation that he can erase years of futility in one year or 4 years? Hell no..

And I don't get where Bush said "this was his fault, leave me out of this".. I think he has acknowledged what happened, dealt with it, and has made Americans feel safer.

What more can you ask??

[ljb]

You Fellows are overlooking one thing brought out by the 9/11 commission.
We have been lax in our responses to terroists activities since Ronald Reagon was President.

Hcap nice post, i love it when someone posts the truth with humor. Makes the righty's chuckle as the cover their arses! :D :D :D

[sq764]

LJB, so admitting Clinton was laxon terrorism, you still would want him in office again if it were possible?

[ljb]

Sq764,
You are starting to lose it here. But yes I would prefer Bill Clinton to G.W. Bush in the Whitehouse for more reasons then just Bush's botching the war on terroisim.

[sq764]

It's tough and useless to argue with someone that gets all their information from Michael Moore films..

Open your eyes sometime, you're missing a lot along the way..

Fortunately, the majority of the voting population is semi-coherent and understands the big picture.. This is why I feel confident Bush will be in office for 4 more years.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Derek2U
You seem like a harmless village idiot so I'm gonna spare you any
criticism. "I will say that the French Gov't had dealing with Iraq
and Iran." ---- wow, McSchell, beautifully said. I'm convinced.
Now ... to real prose that did make its creator, at age 19, rich &
famous.
"A strange melancholy pervades me, to which I hestitate to give
the grave and beautiful name of sorrow."
So began Francoise Sagan's novel "Bonjour Tristesse." She died
yesterday in France and I read her obit now in the NY Times.
When I met my wife Solange she set-out to make me love things
French and one of her fav movies was "Bonjour Tristesse." We saw it and it was ~B movie to me, but hey .... Classic French
food has way to much butter (which I HatE) but French clothing
is 2nd only to Italian --- but my point is this: this French bashing
is lame & it's a DISTRACTION once again. A lover's quarrel that
WILL pass. And why should anyone rubber stamp policy when
so many bona fide VOTING & POLITICALLY ACTIVE guys like me
HATE ~254 Bush doings? If Bush Wins or Loses is NOT the issue
to me --- but THINK about what's at stake & STOP just parroting
slogans. ***

This kind of post makes me laugh..not with you but at you sir!! Village Idiot!! I beg your pardon..Have I ever insulted you??..Have I ever even said 1 thing to you??.FRENCH bashing!!!..The french are very sneaky and very self centered..Do they use underarm deodorant yet??. seems to me this VERY backward country is very lucky to have the USA as a friend..If I was Bush, I would slam the door shut on them, Who the hell is this guy (French President ).Have you ever lived somewhere where your scorned because you dont speak french?, Have you ever gone into a french town and because you couldnt speak english you were treated like crap, Frenchman and French-Canadiennes are all alike, They want for everything and want to give nothing.

[46zilzal]

There is a rather crummy movie about folks climbing mountains which contains a good line.

Lady is real bitchy and a friend is explaining.

"She is French-Canadian...which means she is very nice when she is acting Canadian, but today she is acting French."

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
This aint baseball, it's life and death.

Clinton gutted our military, security, and intelligence and is PRIMARILY responsible for the consequences. That is a fact supported by actual counts of money and personnel. He gutted the very things necessary to preclude an invasion of our country.

Bush has been building up as quickly as Congress allows.

And you want to blame Bush using some stupid ass baseball analogy?

Great post ! I was about to post something similar. Thanks Larry

[hcap]

911 happened on dubyas watch.


Some history

1. A mere 38 days after taking office, the World Trade Center is attacked for the first time. Clinton captures and imprisons Ramzi Yousef, Abdul Hakim Murad, and Wali Khan Amin Shah.
2. January 1994: Clinton's first crime bill provides for stringent anti-terrorism measures, as does the more specifically targetted Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. Clinton also requested and received funding for sponsoring simulated terrorist attacks to test the effectiveness of municpal response teams.
3. July 1996: Congressional Republicans object to Clinton's proposed expansion of the intelligence agencies wiretap authority. Newt Gingrich tells Fox News Sunday: "When you have an agency that turns 900 personnel files over to people like Craig Livingstone... it's very hard to justify giving the agency more power."
4. September 1996: Republicans in Congress refuse all of Clinton's requested counterterrorism spending. Orrin Hatch (R-UT): "The administration would be wise to utilize the resources Congress has already provided before it requests additional funding."
5. Summer 1998: Clinton issues series of top secret directives to the CIA authorizing the assassination of Osama Bin Laden and several of his top lieutenants.
6. August 1998: Alleged chemical weapons factories in Sudan are bombed. The bombings are met with bipartisan approval: "The President did exactly the right thing. By doing this we're sending the signal there are no sancturies for terrorists." -Newt Gingrich. Richard Clarke, counterterrorism expert under both Bush and Clinton, testifying before the 9-11 commission, on the bombing: "To this day, there are a lot of people who believe that it was not related to a terrorist group, not related to chemical weapons. They're wrong, by the way. But the President had decided in PDD-39 that there should be a low threshold of evidence when it comes to the possibility of terrorists getting their access -- getting their hands on chemical weapons. And he acted on that basis."
7. Paul Bremer to the Washington Post on Clinton: "he correctly focused on bin Laden". "Overall, I give him very high remarks" - Robert Oakley, Reagan counterterrorism czar.
8. Economy prospers, crime is down, abortions are down, and teenage pregnencies are down. Clinton, however, very concerned about the "growing threat of terrorism".
9. August 2000: Bush says "If called on by the commander in chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, 'Not ready for duty, sir.'" Proceed to kick the crap out of Afghanistan the following September.
10. October 2000: USS Cole is attacked by suicide bombers, killing seventeen sailors and wounding 39 others. Clinton decides to leave any response to the incoming Bush administration.
11. Winter 2000: Sandy Berger briefs Condolezza Rice on al Qaeda. Later NSA Rice denies then confirms that this meeting took place.
12. Richard Clarke lays out the whole Clinton al Qaeda plan; NSA Rice likes him so much she decides he should stay.1
13. January 2001: Outgoing Clinton officials say "The Bush team thinks we're obsessed with terrorism".
14. February 15: Former US Senators Gary Hart and Warren Rudman issue a report that warns "mass casualty terrorism directed against the US homeland is of serious and growing concern". Recommends the creation of a National Homeland Security Agency.
15. April 30: Clarke presents plan to fight al Qaeda and to start a National Homeland Security Agency. Gets floated around the office, but is more or less ignored.
16. May: The Bush administration gives $43 million to the Taliban in an attempt to convince them to quit growing and exporting opium.
17. July 10: FBI agent sends headquarters a memo concerning some middle eastern students learning to fly who have no interest in taking off or landing.
18. July: Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet warns NSA Rice that a major attack on American soil is probably imminent.
19. August 6: George Tenet delivers to the vacationing Bush a memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.", saying al Qaeda is planning on hijacking planes and possibly attacking New York. No action is taken. The next day Bush tells the press pool "I've got a lot of national secuirty concerns that we're working on - Iraq, Macedonia, very worrisome right now."
20. August 16: INS arrests Moussaoui, saying he's "the type of person who could fly something into the World Trade Center".
21. August 25th: Bush still on vacation. Clarke's memo of fighting terrorism still sitting around, waiting for his attention. Bush tells press "Spot's a good runner. You know, Barney-terriers are bred to go into holes and pull out varmint. And Spotty chases birds. Spotty's a great water dog. I'll go fly fishing this afternoon on my lake." Later builds a nature trail.
22. Feeling the heat in August about an "imminent terrorist attack", acting FBI Director Thomas Pickard requests an additional $58 million in anti-terrorism funding from the Department of Justice.
23. September 5: Eight months after Rice had been briefed, and 11 months after Clinton suggested Bush create it, Clarke's plan finally reaches the principals comittee. Bush is back from his month-long August vacation. Cheney, Rice, Powell, and Rumsfeld decide to advise Bush to adopt Clarke's plan with a phased in approach. They wait several days before they put it on his desk.
24. September 9: The Senate Armed Services Committe recommends shifting $814 million from missile defense to anti-terrorism funding. Secretary Rumsfeld informs the Senate that he will recommend the President veto this.
25. September 10: Ashcroft sends his budget request to Bush. Includes spending increases in 68 different programs, none of which deal with terrorism. Ashcroft passes around a memo to his department of his seven top priorities, again terrorism isn't on the list. Acting FBI Director Pickard receives Ashcroft's official denial for Pickard's request for more anti-terrorism funding.
26. September 11: Using hijacked airliners, Saudi and Egyptian members of al Qaeda attack the World Trade Center and Pentagon, killing thousands. Another hijacked airline crashes to earth in eastern Pennsylvania, apparently brought down as part of a battle between the hijackers and the passengers. Military moves to DefCon 3, all domestic flights are grounded.
27. September 11-15: Some 142 Saudi nationals, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, are allowed to fly out of the country.
28. November: Clinton's "defunct, cut, non-battle ready military" kicks the crap out of Afghanistan.
29. Military is so dismantled it prompts Lawrence J. Korb, director of national secuirty studies at the Council of Foreign Relations, to say after the Iraq invasion "[t]he fact of the matter is that most of the credit for the successful military operation should go to the Clinton Admnistration."

[46zilzal]

But the clowns in office, much akin to the main character in 1984, just have to revise history...Oh excuse me CORRECT hsitory

[Tom]

Gee, Hcap, thassa lotta stuff Billy did....too bad it didn'd do anything to stop the Blachawk incident, the Cole, the embassy's, etc. etc.

Amd Ljb, your selective history agains missed the mark. BushI was not so soft on terrorism...he led the invasin to liberate Kuway and then he only went wrong when, like all you libs want BushII to do...he listened to the UN and stopped before the job was done. Had he kept going, he would have ended the Iraq threat a long time ago. But NOoooooo. He used the Kerry Doctrine. And L, the jihad had not been declared until well within Clinton's term.

[hcap]

Tom,

I only posted billy's stuff in reaction to "yeah maybe dubya screwed up but it was really clinton's fault" yada yada yada....

In other words clinton's failures or success does not take the focus off of flightsuitboy. The problem many of us on the left, (and evidently, the middle) have is the neverending unnecessary fiasco in Iraq. And the latest that it rea-aaally is jes' a continuation of the war on terror.

Bullticky.

[hcap]

October '04 Atlantic Monthly, "Bush's Lost Year" EXCERPT:

"Let me tell you my gut feeling," a senior figure at one of America's military-sponsored think tanks told me recently, after we had talked for twenty minutes about details of the campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq. "If I can be blunt, the Administration is full of shit. In my view we are much, much worse off now than when we went into Iraq. That is not a partisan position. I voted for these guys. But I think they are incompetent, and I have had a very close perspective on what is happening. Certainly in the long run we have harmed ourselves. We are playing to the enemy's political advantage. Whatever tactical victories we may gain along the way, this will prove to be a strategic blunder."

This man will not let me use his name, because he is still involved in military policy. He cited the experiences of Joseph Wilson, Richard Clarke, and Generals Eric Shinseki and Anthony Zinni to illustrate the personal risks of openly expressing his dissenting view.


Newsweek, "Staying the Course Isn't an Option," by Retired Air Force Col. Mike Turner, a former military planner who served on the U.S. Central Command planning staff for operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm. EXCERPT:

"If the Bush administration remains in power, failure in Iraq is a virtual certainty. "Staying the course" during a crisis spiraling rapidly downward will cost thousands of American and Iraqi lives, will continue to sap the operational readiness of this nation's armed forces, and will continue to strengthen Al Qaeda's hand. To paraphrase FDR, it's time to change horses. The one we're on is about to drown."

[sq764]

The Atlantic Monthly?? Wow, time to bring out the heavy artillery!!

You totally changed my vote..

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by Larry Hamilton
This aint baseball, it's life and death.

Clinton gutted our military, security, and intelligence and is PRIMARILY responsible for the consequences. That is a fact supported by actual counts of money and personnel. He gutted the very things necessary to preclude an invasion of our country.

Bush has been building up as quickly as Congress allows.

And you want to blame Bush using some stupid ass baseball analogy?

I could say that I used that analogy because I wanted to break it down to a level where you could understand my point. But I am far too classy to do anything like that (besides, it didn't work)

[Tom]

Originally posted by sq764
The Atlantic Monthly?? Wow, time to bring out the heavy artillery!!

You totally changed my vote..

Obvioulsy, he must be right. It was in print! Mygosh! Some unidentified writer just has to be right!:eek:

[Lefty]

Bush hasn't blamed Clinton for anything. I and others on this board have done that. Clinton blamed everybody for his failures and took credit for successes he had nothing to do with. Yes, 9-11 did happen on Bushes watch,(thanks to Clinton and "the wall") and unlike Clinton he has taken great measures to prevent it from happening again. You want to blame him for 9-11 and then blame him again for the measures he has taken. Typical liberals...

[Larry Hamilton]

You come in here armed with cliches and opinions, come to conclusions and expect to be taken seriously. You think yourself clever, what I see are the debating skills of a 9th grade civics class.

[JustRalph]

Hey Derek...........

Do the French Still Eat their horses? Maybe Too Much Butter!