Roulette

[ronsmac]

The race 2 roulette pool at Santa Anita was $659 dollars. I'm not sure what the motivation was to create this bet in the first place , but it's not catching on.

[Jeff P]

In my opinion:

The new bet is geared towards simplicity - as in a bet the casual fan can play requiring very little in the way of handicapping or critical thinking.

That by itself is actually a good idea.

However, whoever decided to call it Roulette failed to think things through.

Roulette has been soundly vilified as a bad bet in just about every coffee table gambling book ever written because of the 5.26% house edge.

Compared to other casino games like craps, 21, and baccarat: Roulette really is a bad gamble for the player.

Here the casual race fan is being asked to play Roulette at the track.

But instead of the 5.26% house edge Roulette has been soundly vilified for in casino gambling:

The casual race fan is being asked to pay 15.43% plus breakage for the privilege of playing Roulette at the track.

Can't say I'm surprised at the lackluster response.

Happy New Year Everyone.



-jp

.

[Suff]

The race 2 roulette pool at Santa Anita was $659 dollars. I'm not sure what the motivation was to create this bet in the first place , but it's not catching on.

Neither my Xpressbet nor Nyrabets account is even showing that pool. May I ask where you see it?

When I saw your post I was persuaded to go play it. So I got the card at drf.

I like the 8 in the 5th and the 5 in the 6th.

So I play a $5 dub, cold 8-5 that's paying Boxcars and I play $3 PS saver the 8, and the 8 run$ out. So next race, rather than bet the 5 to win...at 15-1. I bet $5 roulette , 3, 4 & 5 at 8/5

Mind you.....I'm only betting it to just experience once. What happens? The 5 wins and pays $31.80... Now I hate the Roulette!:lol:

https://i.ibb.co/g6WQmN1/5-horse.png

[ronsmac]

Neither my Xpressbet nor Nyrabets account is even showing that pool. May I ask where you see it?

When I saw your post I was persuaded to go play it. So I got the card at drf.

I like the 8 in the 5th and the 5 in the 6th.

So I play a $5 dub, cold 8-5 that's paying Boxcars and I play $3 PS saver the 8, and the 8 run$ out. So next race, rather than bet the 5 to win...at 15-1. I bet $5 roulette , 3, 4 & 5 at 8/5

Mind you.....I'm only betting it to just experience once. What happens? The 5 wins and pays $31.80... Now I hate the Roulette!:lol:

https://i.ibb.co/g6WQmN1/5-horse.png
I was watching the live feed and they showed the pool totals after the race went official. The 1st race roulette had $897.

[VigorsTheGrey]

A few days ago 3 longshots were listed as Green... All over 30-1...one of those wins and pays over $90....the Green Roulette pays $14. Why not put $2 to win on each long shot instead...?

Even though the odds are listed in the program and DRF, isn't this bet parimutuel and not fixed odds, right?

Where are the will pays...? Isn't this the same odds when using a dutching calculator ...?

[green80]

Is this bet available at any of the ADW's or is it on track only?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

They had a roulette play at Santa Anita in R4 yesterday in which the :1: and :7: were packaged together as the black group. The roulette payout for black the last I saw was like $12.40 or so.

The :1: was scratched and the :7: went off at 13/1. :pound:

The :1: was an early scratch before the day started. Anybody who bet on black in that race yesterday should have been guided to the exit and told to go home.

[Suff]

Is this bet available at any of the ADW's or is it on track only?


I bet it in xpressbet, and likely on-track and there are the only 2 places you can probably bet it.

Just like the Late pick5 at NYRA can only be bet on NYRA BETS or on-track.

I can't even open my NYRA BETS APP while I am on Gulfstream property because they block the DNS address entirely.

That's the only reason that I even have Express Bet APP. I prefer NYRABETS mobile and web interface to anything else.

Also, I had to forfeit my DRF BETS account to even get an XPRESSBET account because The Stronach Group handles the back-end for DRF BETS.

They have a policy that you cannot have both.. That was no Biggie because I only used DRF BETS to get enough free cards.

And even that turned into a debacle.

I buy formulator cards exclusively by renewable subscription. But when I used one of the FREE cards, none of the Race Replays or CHART links in Formulator were working.

After a lengthy and frustrating email exchange that lasted two weeks. DRF discovered something. The FREE cards that you earn are not fully functional in forumaltor.

Long story short, they gave me some free cards for my troubles, but those Free cards did not work in Formulator! :lol:


The DRFBET interface was torturous too. I disliked it.

Moral of the story: It was time for a change so I willingly jumped to Express bets.

[davew]

has anyone seen the pool and what is bet on what?

on xpressbet, they have the current 'odds' when placing the bet

3rd today winner paid $3.00 and roulette paid $3.80 with this horse and another.

[chiguy]

You can bet it at off-track locations as well. We got a button on our machines the day Santa Anita opened. Nobody has bet it yet with me and I did see the pool after the last race last Saturday and I believe it was 1200-1400. I don't see this lasting unless they decide to do a roulette pick six or roulette place pick all.:lol:

[davew]

race 7 had less than $300 in pool
winner paid $4.40 roulette (winner/3rd) paid $4.60

[elhelmete]

race 7 had less than $300 in pool
winner paid $4.40 roulette (winner/3rd) paid $4.60

Through 7 races today the roulette paid more than the win price one twice, and for a whopping $0.80. All other times it paid less than the win price, often significantly so.

I should take a look at roulette vs. place and show prices. The roulette bet almost seems like a 3 horse show bet??

[davew]

Through 7 races today the roulette paid more than the win price one twice, and for a whopping $0.80. All other times it paid less than the win price, often significantly so.

I should take a look at roulette vs. place and show prices. The roulette bet almost seems like a 3 horse show bet??

It is closer to a multi-horse win dutch bet.

[horses4courses]

The major attraction to most roulette players
is that you get paid 35-1 on a straight up win.

This bet should have been called "Coin Flip".

[Jeff P]

Look at it this way --

How many horses does a player win bet that turn out to be actual +EV overlays?

For me, a realistic number might be a handful out of say 65-80 runners on a given race card.

For others, your mileage may vary.

Now, how many +EV overlays can you realistically expect when a track employee creates a betting interest for Roulette where he takes that rare actual +EV overlay and combines it with other random horses? Thus diluting the value.

For me, the answer would be just about never.

But again, for others, your mileage may vary.



-jp

.

[davew]

Look at it this way --

How many horses does a player win bet that turn out to be actual +EV overlays?

For me, a realistic number might be a handful out of say 65-80 runners on a given race card.

For others, your mileage may vary.

Now, how many +EV overlays can you realistically expect when a track employee creates a betting interest for Roulette where he takes that rare actual +EV overlay and combines it with other random horses? Thus diluting the value.

For me, the answer would be just about never.

But again, for others, your mileage may vary.



-jp

.

Jeff, your thoughts pretty much echo the linked op/ed

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/op-ed-racing-roulette-a-good-idea-and-why-it-will-never-work/

But both of you are assuming there are not any overlays and the takeout will kill you. I disagree but the pools are small (most I have seen lately are in the $300 to $1200 range) and partly hidden (can find current odds, but not pool size before race)

If you add up the probabilities in each group and then compare odds, there are some bets. Here are a couple examples

52,41,7 -- 3/5, 1, 6
44,48,8 -- 2, 1/5, 5

[Buckeye]

I'm only guessing here but aren't they just trying to simplify the problem in order to bring in more action?

Christina would probably say obviously.

I support the idea of it though because it may lead to more eyeballs.

[davew]

at Gulfstream today on Xpressbet

[ultracapper]

Didn't Fuss say he played it online once or twice?

[davew]

first day at GP and the pools must be small (not showing totals after replay like SA)
2nd race winner $4.6 roulette $6.6
7th race last minute went from 3/5 to paying $8.40

[cj]

first day at GP and the pools must be small (not showing totals after replay like SA)
2nd race winner $4.6 roulette $6.6
7th race last minute went from 3/5 to paying $8.40

First five or six races yesterday only a couple topped $200. I haven't paid attention, just saw a tweet about it.

[davew]

The pools in results charts today. Most in the $300 to $600 area. It is more like a slot machine now, as pools are hidden and someone betting $50 makes the other 2 decent overlays.

[SG4]

I wish Gulfstream spent more time on communication with the public & less time instituting wagers that handle a few hundred dollars per race.


I didn't see any mention anywhere that roulette was coming to GP, and more importantly I didn't see any mention from any official Gulfstream outlet (website, twitter page of theirs or any employees) that they had rescinded their decision to make this Sunday a mandatory payout for the pick 6. The only place I could find a mention of this was from DRF's Mike Welsch on twitter and then an item on DRF Live, so not even in an article. Glad I caught wind of this earlier this evening just as I was about to dive into the Sunday PP's.

[therussmeister]

I believe it was the first Gulfstream race on Friday the pool was $72.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I get that the roulette is parimutuel in structure, and the odds do change from the initial offering...so how come there are no boards that show what the CURRENT ODDS are...? Why would I bet on something that I didn’t know what it is going to pay...? Or at least make the attempt cause I know odds change anyway with late betting, but gee whiz, make the attempt...it is probably going to be dropped very soon anyway, the sooner the better, IMO...

[davew]

I believe it was the first Gulfstream race on Friday the pool was $72.

On Sunday 1/27 the first pool was $28 -

[davew]

I get that the roulette is parimutuel in structure, and the odds do change from the initial offering...so how come there are no boards that show what the CURRENT ODDS are...? Why would I bet on something that I didn’t know what it is going to pay...? Or at least make the attempt cause I know odds change anyway with late betting, but gee whiz, make the attempt...it is probably going to be dropped very soon anyway, the sooner the better, IMO...

on Xpressbet, on the wager board it shows current odds - but meaningless without pool size as your $2 bet could easily move odds.

[elhelmete]

on Xpressbet, on the wager board it shows current odds - but meaningless without pool size as your $2 bet could easily move odds.

I see the odds too.

Vigers, where aren't you seeing them?

[rastajenk]

Holy Bull winner paid $60+, but the Roulette paid $4.00.

I'm not seeing where this can get any kind of traction at all.

[davew]

Holy Bull winner paid $60+, but the Roulette paid $4.00.

I'm not seeing where this can get any kind of traction at all.

You must not understand the bet - you get a 'basket of horses'
and in your example there were 3 other horses

generally it seems Red is favorite averaging near 50% probability, Black is next near 40% probability and green is longshot near 10% probability.

The highest pay-off I have seen was first at Gulfstream today green $17.20
and lowest at $2.10

[rastajenk]

I understand it. And I am still not seeing where the traction will come from.

[chenoa]

It's a stupid bet.

$2 to win $4 and you get three bombs. Might as well bet each to win. If you can't afford to lose $6 why are you wasting time on the game.:pound:

[cutchemist42]

So is it basically acting like an automatic ditching bet?

[airford1]

Opening day at Santa Anita the tellers couldn't explain the bet and they struggled to even punch the ticket. As dumb as the Jackpot. New players are a bit confused anyway why create something that makes no sense.

[Robert Fischer]

(I haven't read up on the rules or taken more than a superficial glance)It seems like it may be equivalent to dutching pre-selected groups of horses, in a 3 or 4 horse/interest parimutuel pool without the requisite accompanying significant reduction in takeout.

Right now there's a popular business idea going around that involves making products simple and intuitive, in order to broaden the market. One of the big obvious leaders is the video game industry. Wii came out with very simple, intuitive controllers. Now microsoft had that wonderful, touching Super Bowl commercial introducing their simple, intuitive controllers.
So everyone wants in on the action, and it's a popular idea in board-rooms and class rooms galore.

Cut it to 4%? takeout or so, and it has potential among the elderly and the casual casino-oriented fan.

As-is it is destined to die, or like the 'grand slam'; fade away into bolivian.

[Jeff P]

On a Saturday no less --

[Jeff P]

One more --

[rastajenk]

Cut it to 4%? takeout or so, and it has potential among the elderly and the casual casino-oriented fan. I think they could offer it at a 0% takeout and it still wouldn't get any momentum.

[AskinHaskin]

Wednesday Feb. 13

Gulfstream 7th race


Total wagering was $791,000


Roulette pool = $25


What more needs to be said, about this absurd wager?

[davew]

Wednesday Feb. 13

Gulfstream 7th race


Total wagering was $791,000


Roulette pool = $25


What more needs to be said, about this absurd wager?

If you don't like micro pools, don't play them. Greyhound races occasionally have place or show cashers with no dollars in that position.

[dilanesp]

How about we have another bet, where we set an over-under on the roulette pool and bet on that?

[thaskalos]

Wednesday Feb. 13

Gulfstream 7th race


Total wagering was $791,000


Roulette pool = $25


What more needs to be said, about this absurd wager?

$102 on the Roulette in race 11...out of an $808,000 total mutuel pool. So...things could be looking up for the wager. :ThmbUp:

[horses4courses]

$102 on the Roulette in race 11...out of an $808,000 total mutuel pool. So...things could be looking up for the wager. :ThmbUp:

Some guy that was toasted was trying to bet $50 WP and hit the wrong button.
:cool:

[ReplayRandall]

Some guy that was toasted was trying to bet $50 WP and hit the wrong button.
:cool:

Stupid is as stupid does.....with a stupid bet, the "Roulette"....:lol::lol::lol:

[oughtoh]

Instead of this why don't they have odds for who finishes last and an exacta for the last two horses. Or you could have twin exactas, first two horses and the last two horses.

[horses4courses]

Instead of this why don't they have odds for who finishes last and an exacta for the last two horses. Or you could have twin exactas, first two horses and the last two horses.

If you thought it was easy to fix the outcome of a race on the win end,
getting paid for coming last opens up a huge can of worms on the integrity factor.
Not worth offering. :ThmbDown:

[davew]

Instead of this why don't they have odds for who finishes last and an exacta for the last two horses. Or you could have twin exactas, first two horses and the last two horses.

too easy to fix

I thought I was going to see a dead heat today, curious on how they split the pool (one got DQ'd to 2nd)

Betfair with low priced horses deadheat can get back less than your bet :(

[dilanesp]

If you thought it was easy to fix the outcome of a race on the win end,
getting paid for coming last opens up a huge can of worms on the integrity factor.
Not worth offering. :ThmbDown:

Yeah. Honestly I am not much of a fan of the Super High Five. Even 5th place is far enough back that there can be integrity issues.

[ultracapper]

Yeah. Honestly I am not much of a fan of the Super High Five. Even 5th place is far enough back that there can be integrity issues.

Agree. Every jockey seems to have their own way of finishing a race when it becomes apparent that they aren't competing for the win money any longer. I hate watching helplessly as the horse I need to finish third for my trifecta has a 1/2 length lead over the 4th place horse at the 16th and the jock has basically started to think about the next mount.

God help you if you're in this spot and KentD is on your horse.

[rastajenk]

Similarly, who wants to see a jock whipping and scrubbing furiously to pass tired runners to get from seventh to fifth...15 lengths behind the leaders? Not a good look.

[airford1]

Similarly, who wants to see a jock whipping and scrubbing furiously to pass tired runners to get from seventh to fifth...15 lengths behind the leaders? Not a good look.

But that is where the nature of the wagers have gone. That is what makes the game look bad to a bettor that is playing these wagers. I as a former owner dont want the jockey to to waste my horse to finish 4th or 5th if their best race can be save.

[LemonSoupKid]

This is included in my Stronach 5 post, maybe you all can help. I was at the OTB a few weeks back and wanted to bet the Roulette at SA on my automated teller ... I didn't see it listed. Similarly I'm wondering if you can, and how you can, bet the Stronach 5

Does anyone know the functionality of this? I doubt the tellers at my OTB know, they have worse keypads, just numbers, ya know?

[LemonSoupKid]

You can bet it at off-track locations as well. We got a button on our machines the day Santa Anita opened. Nobody has bet it yet with me and I did see the pool after the last race last Saturday and I believe it was 1200-1400. I don't see this lasting unless they decide to do a roulette pick six or roulette place pick all.:lol:

I've seen a few similar posts. Occasionally I'm around Chicagoland ... how do you do it at the Hawthorne or Arlington OTB machines?

[AlsoEligible]

I've seen a few similar posts. Occasionally I'm around Chicagoland ... how do you do it at the Hawthorne or Arlington OTB machines?

Pretty sure it’s only available at locations/adws that use AmTote, as the other tote companies haven’t put in the development work for it. Hard to blame them given the handle so far.

So Stronach tracks and ADWs work. Other California locations. But Arlington/Hawthorne and their OTBs are United Tote or Sportech, so no dice.

All that may change if customers are asking for it though, so I’d bring it up with someone at the facility. Be the change you want to see. :)

[Irishfever]

Well this bet provides good insight into the market for horse racing. Most are knowledgeable with different levels of sophistication.

Horse bettors don't get excited from slot bells ringing or watching a ball bounce around a track. I don't fault them for trying to convert the zombies.

However as a parimutuel bet where you cannot predetermine its odds dissociates itself from roulette. Too bad because if there was enough liquidity you coud use it as a hedge instrument on last legs of multis.

[PaceAdvantage]

I wonder how long they're going to stick it out with this wager. Those pools are beyond embarrassing.

[v j stauffer]

Similarly, who wants to see a jock whipping and scrubbing furiously to pass tired runners to get from seventh to fifth...15 lengths behind the leaders? Not a good look.

Speaking as an owner and bettor. I want to see it.

[v j stauffer]

I wonder how long they're going to stick it out with this wager. Those pools are beyond embarrassing.

I don't understand why anybody cares about Roulette?

If a total novice thinks it's interesting that's cool.

The existence of the wager is meaningless to the rest of us.

Isn't it?

[chiguy]

On the machines in cali we have a keyboard with the usual bet types hard wired to a key. W P S Ex Tri Super etc. Hi-Five got the last unused button if I remember this correctly. We also have a touch screen that has another 15 or so options that are things like Select Track Default (what track you want set as the default track on your machine), Return cash key, draw cash key etc. They added Roulette to one of these buttons and that is where it is for us. Not sure about the automated terminals.

[Profesor]

The race 2 roulette pool at Santa Anita was $659 dollars. I'm not sure what the motivation was to create this bet in the first place , but it's not catching on.
Today’s 8th race roulette pool at GULF WAS $88😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[therussmeister]

I think a bridge jumper should start bombing the pools. This will either make the tracks cancel this wager or, if he misses, get people excited about the wager.

[therussmeister]

Today’s 8th race roulette pool at GULF WAS $88😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

The first race was $26 or was it $23 I forget.

[davew]

The first race was $26 or was it $23 I forget.

and green was the winner - paid $4.20 with the 13 and 14/1

I got shut out, would have been $25

[Jeff P]

I don't understand why anybody cares about Roulette?

If a total novice thinks it's interesting that's cool.

The existence of the wager is meaningless to the rest of us.

Isn't it?

The pages here at Paceadvantage contain hundreds (if not thousands) of suggestions from players to track management and horsemen that would make the wagering expericence more attractive to new fans making their first few track visits.

And yet --

Horse Racing Roulette at 15.43 percent takeout plus breakage at Santa Anita and 17 percent takeout plus breakage at Gulfstream is what The Stronach Group came up with for 2019.

In my opinion --

This demonstrates once again how out of touch upper track management and horsemen are when it comes to actual customer needs and wants.

It's insulting (to me) because (Imo) this game is being sorely mismanaged by track management and horsemen who THINK they know about horse race betting --

When it's obvious to a LOT of horseplayers that nothing could be further from the truth.

It's frustrating (to me) because (Imo) acting on actual customer needs and wants could make this game SO much better track revenue-wise and purse money-wise than it currently is.

Think $30B to $50B handle a year vs. (what?) $10.6B a year.


But instead, we are currently being spoon fed Horse Racing Roulette --

I use the word spoon fed here because while the graphic below was being shown on the track video stream Gulfstream's track announcer was telling us that the Roulette payoff at $3.00 was (and I quote) "not bad."

Maybe it was "not bad" because $3.00 was also what the win mutuel paid.

BUT --

More than $960,000 was bet on yesterday's Gulfstream Race 8.

Of that only $88 was bet on Horse Racing Roulette.

Vic, at first I shared your opinion that "The existence of the wager is meaningless to the rest of us."

But the more I think about it the more I'm convinced the game is being sorely mismanaged by those who THINK they know what they are doing --

After a certain point I find THAT to be both frustrating and insulting.

[Jeff P]

There's something else I find objectionable --

In an effort to spoon feed us Horse Racing Roulette, Gulfstream is now cutting into track signal screen real estate that was formerly available for showing the horses during pre-race warmups.

Speaking strictly for myself, I'd much rather see:

The Stronach Group decide to drop Horse Racing Roulette right now (because it's a bad idea that's clearly not being embraced by the public.)

As opposed to:

Keep spoon feeding it to us while making it even harder to see horses during pre-race warmups than before Horse Racing Roulette.

[ReplayRandall]

Hey Jeff....I'm giving you a little heads-up of something I posted in the 20th NHC thread....If you do the work, there's gold be to found.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't understand why anybody cares about Roulette?

If a total novice thinks it's interesting that's cool.

The existence of the wager is meaningless to the rest of us.

Isn't it?I know one thing is for sure. The existence of the wager is certainly meaningless to the bottom line of those tracks that sponsor it, as well as 99.9999999% of the racing wagering public.

[ReplayRandall]

So isn't time to close the thread on this meaningless wager and topic?...I think so...:rip:

[spiketoo]

In my opinion --

This demonstrates once again how out of touch upper track management and horsemen are when it comes to actual customer needs and wants.



Out of touch kinda infers they're not cognizant nor aware. I think they are. I also think they just dont care.

[dilanesp]

I think a bridge jumper should start bombing the pools. This will either make the tracks cancel this wager or, if he misses, get people excited about the wager.

Point me to some $26 pools and I may do this.

[ReplayRandall]

I'd rather wager on which horse will take the biggest dump, just prior to entering the starting gate....No bridge-jumping, just pile-jumping like the roulette wager....:faint:

[davew]

I think a bridge jumper should start bombing the pools. This will either make the tracks cancel this wager or, if he misses, get people excited about the wager.

Someone was doing it today at Gulfstream, but to get 1/9 does not take much $20, $50, maybe $100 in some races.

The problem is you need to pick the WINNER and I haven't seen any horses or combos higher than a 60% chance of winning by my handicapping.

I like this bet more than the 'Jackpot pools' they have been pushing in recent years.

So if you do not like it, come up with some suggestions that are better. Only Santa Anita and Gulfstream Park are doing this now.

[dilanesp]

Someone was doing it today at Gulfstream, but to get 1/9 does not take much $20, $50, maybe $100 in some races.

The problem is you need to pick the WINNER and I haven't seen any horses or combos higher than a 60% chance of winning by my handicapping.

I like this bet more than the 'Jackpot pools' they have been pushing in recent years.

So if you do not like it, come up with some suggestions that are better. Only Santa Anita and Gulfstream Park are doing this now.

I think the point would be to put big roulette bets, then cancel them close to post time. Get the odds fluctuating like crazy.

Drop $200 on Green, wait, then cancel it.

[dilanesp]

I'd rather wager on which horse will take the biggest dump, just prior to entering the starting gate....No bridge-jumping, just pile-jumping like the roulette wager....:faint:

My mother had a friend in the 1950's who actually swore this was a handicapping angle. Carrying less weight, he claimed. :)

[ReplayRandall]

My mother had a friend in the 1950's who actually swore this was a handicapping angle. Carrying less weight, he claimed. :)
I had a friend who swore by this at the Greyhounds...

[dilanesp]

I had a friend who swore by this at the Greyhounds...

If those dogs poop like mine does, it's a substantial weight loss!

[davew]

I think a bridge jumper should start bombing the pools. This will either make the tracks cancel this wager or, if he misses, get people excited about the wager.

I had to miss the first 4 races today. In the 4th at GP, Black won and paid $40.40 - there were some good overlays today.

If one color is bet extra heavy and is 1/9, one or both the others will most likely be overlays.

[horses4courses]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0rt7oWX0AE4WQk.jpg:small

[davew]

Yesterday at Gulfstream pools were mostly near $100. Although most people make fun of the bet, I hope they keep it. A few times I bet more than 5% of the pool, and once I took down half the pool.


Can anyone remember what they called the bet at Santa Anita they tried a few years ago? I can't remember if it was high low or odd even, but it also did not seem to last long.

[Robert Fischer]

I wonder how long they're going to stick it out with this wager. Those pools are beyond embarrassing.

you'd think if Nicoletti/ Blewitt / Acacia would have some on-air rivalry with this wager, while demonstrating that it in fact exists, and demonstrating how to play it, - that it'd at least catch some bored crowd money.


It's such a bad bet though.

[therussmeister]

I wonder how long they're going to stick it out with this wager. Those pools are beyond embarrassing.

Maybe they will stick with it until they recoup the cost of implementing it.