Max Cleland and Dan Rather? Forgery

[JustRalph]

Ex-Guardsman: I Contacted Kerry Campaign


By KELLEY SHANNON, Associated Press Writer

AUSTIN, Texas - A retired Texas National Guard official mentioned as a possible source for disputed documents about President Bush (news - web sites)'s service in the Guard said he passed along information to a former senator working with John Kerry (news - web sites)'s campaign.

Saturday, a White House official said Bush has reviewed disputed documents that purport to show he refused orders to take a physical examination in 1972 and did not recall having seen them previously.

The long-running story on Bush's Texas Air National Guard service took an unusual twist when CBS broadcast a report on what it said were the newly discovered records. The authenticity of the documents has come into doubt.

In his first public comment on the CBS documents controversy, the president told The Union Leader of Manchester, N.H., "There are a lot of questions about the documents, and they need to be answered."

The retired Guard official, Bill Burkett, said in an Aug. 21 e-mail to a list of Texas Democrats that after getting through "seven layers of bureaucratic kids" in the Democrat's campaign, he talked with former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland about information that would counter criticism of Kerry's Vietnam War service. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the e-mail Saturday.

"I asked if they wanted to counterattack or ride this to ground and outlast it, not spending any money. (Cleland) said counterattack. So I gave them the information to do it with," Burkett wrote.

Burkett, who lives just outside of Abilene, wrote that no one at the Kerry campaign called him back.

The e-mail was distributed to a Yahoo list of Texas Democrats. The site, which had about 570 members Saturday, is not affiliated with the state party.

Republican National Committee (news - web sites) spokesman Jim Dyke suggested collaboration between Burkett and the Kerry campaign. "The trail of connections is becoming increasingly clear," he said.

In the telephone interview published Saturday, Bush replied "I don't know" to a question whether the White House had evidence that either the Kerry campaign or the Democratic Party were involved in releasing the disputed papers.

"The Kerry campaign had absolutely nothing to do with these documents, no ifs, ands or buts," spokesman David Wade said. "Jim Dyke inhabits the fantasy world of spin where George Bush (news - web sites) pretends we haven't lost millions of jobs and everything in Iraq (news - web sites) is coming up roses. He'd be better served getting answers from the president, not hurling baseless attacks."

Burkett, who identifies himself as a Democrat, did not return several phone messages left by The Associated Press over the past week. There was no answer at his telephone number Saturday.

Burkett's lawyer, David Van Os, a Democratic candidate for the Texas Supreme Court, issued a statement this week saying Burkett "no longer trusts any possible outcome of speaking to the press on any issue regarding George W. Bush."

Burkett, who retired from the National Guard in 1999, has been cited in media reports as a source for the CBS News "60 Minutes" story about documents allegedly written by one of Bush's former commanders that indicated the future president ignored an order to take a physical.

The authenticity of the documents has been called into question by some experts and relatives of the late Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who supposedly wrote them when he supervised Bush in 1972 and 1973. One of the memos indicated that Killian had been pressured to sugarcoat Bush's performance.

CBS has stood by its reporting, but said the network would redouble its efforts to determine the authenticity of the documents.

Leading operatives for the Texas Democratic Party did not receive Burkett's August e-mail, said Kelly Fero, one of the state party's strategists.

"The Democrats who run the party and are sort of the main strategists in Texas never saw it," Fero said. "We have lots of groups of Democrats who communicate among themselves constantly by e-mail."

Burkett, 55, told the AP in a lengthy telephone interview in February that he now is a supporter of Democrats, although at the time he said he didn't necessarily back Kerry.

He said he overheard a conversation in 1997 between then-Gov. Bush's chief of staff, Joe Allbaugh, and then-Adjutant Gen. Daniel James of the Texas Air National Guard in which the two men spoke of getting rid of any military records that would "embarrass the governor."

Burkett said he saw documents from Bush's file discarded in a trash can a few days later at Camp Mabry in Austin. Burkett described them as performance and pay documents. Allbaugh and James denied the allegations.

Burkett retired from the National Guard after more than 28 years of service because of medical reasons. He was involved in a lawsuit against the Guard over his medical benefits, which he lost on appeal.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Thanks for the info.
______________
Move to Screen Bush File in 90's Is Reported

By Ralph Blumenthal
The New York Times

Thursday 12 February 2004

HOUSTON, Feb. 11 — A retired lieutenant colonel in the Texas National Guard complained to a member of the Texas Senate in 1998 that aides to Gov. George W. Bush improperly screened Mr. Bush's National Guard files in a search for information that could embarrass the governor in future elections.

The retired officer, Bill Burkett, said in the letter to Senator Gonzalo Barrientos, a Democrat from Austin, that Dan Bartlett, then a senior aide to Governor Bush and now White House communications director, and Gen. Daniel James, then the head of the Texas National Guard, reviewed the file to "make sure nothing will embarrass the governor during his re-election campaign."

A copy of the letter was provided to The New York Times by a lawyer for Mr. Burkett to support statements he makes in a book to be published this month, which Mr. Burkett repeated in interviews this week, that Mr. Bush's aides ordered Guard officials to remove damaging information from Mr. Bush's military personnel files.

Mr. Bartlett denied on Wednesday that any records were altered. General James, since named head of the Air National Guard by President Bush, also denied Mr. Burkett's account. But Mr. Bartlett and another former official in Mr. Bush's administration in Texas, Joe Allbaugh, acknowledged speaking to National Guard officials about the files as Mr. Bush was preparing to seek re-election as governor.

Both said their goal was to ensure that the records would be helpful to journalists who inquired about Mr. Bush's military experience.

Questions about Mr. Bush's service in the National Guard have arisen in every campaign he has run since his 1994 race for governor. His 2004 re-election campaign is no different, as Democrats have pointed to apparent gaps in his service record with the National Guard.

On Tuesday, the White House released 18 months of payroll records that it says demonstrate that Mr. Bush fully completed his service. And on Wednesday, the White House spokesman, Scott McClellan, said the administration was awaiting more records and promised to make public any previously undisclosed information from the file.

Mr. McClellan and other administration officials criticized the Democrats for their attacks on Mr. Bush's service in the National Guard during the Vietnam War. "What you are seeing is gutter politics," Mr. McClellan said. "The American people deserve better. There are some who are not interested in their facts. They are simply trolling for trash."

Mr. Burkett's letter to Senator Barrientos was part of a running battle that he waged with the National Guard after retiring in January 1998. In it, Mr. Burkett complained of "severe retaliation" from General James for what he said was reporting "illegal acts" within the National Guard. He also complained about the government's failure to pay for his medical care after suffering from a tropical disease after a military assignment to Panama in 1997.
*************Before finally winning medical benefits in July 1998, he said, he suffered a nervous breakdown and was hospitalized for depression.

A spokesman for Senator Barrientos, Ray Perez, said on Wednesday that "Mr. Burkett did correspond with this office." Senator Barrientos said he was trying to find the six-year-old records of contacts with Mr. Burkett. Another Texas legislator contacted at the time by Mr. Burkett, Representative Bob Hunter, Republican of Abilene, said Mr. Burkett had appeared before his committee overseeing military affairs and had complained of mishandling of his medical claims but did not mention Mr. Bush's files. He called Mr. Burkett "disgruntled."

In telephone interviews this week from his home near Abilene, Mr. Burkett, 55, a systems analyst with 27 years in the National Guard including service as deputy commandant of the New Mexico Military Academy, said he happened to be in General James' office at Camp Mabry in Austin in mid-1997 and overheard Mr. Allbaugh on a speakerphone telling General James that Mr. Bartlett and Karen P. Hughes, another aide to Governor Bush, would be coming to the Guard offices to review Mr. Bush's military files.

Ms. Hughes, who left the White House in 2002, did not return a call.

Mr. James said though a spokesman that "that discussion never happened" and that he would "never condone falsification of any record." Mr. Allbaugh called the account "pure hogwash," but said he talked to General James about making Mr. Bush's records available to reporters.

"We spoke about a lot of things," Mr. Allbaugh said. "I'm sure we had a conversation with General James where all the records were kept because it was an issue in 1994 and 1998 and would be in 2000. We wanted to make sure we could refer people of your profession where to go."

Mr. Burkett further said that about 10 days later he and another officer walked into the Camp Mabry military museum and saw the head of the museum, Gen. John Scribner, going through Mr. Bush's personnel records. Mr. Burkett said he saw a trash basket with discarded papers bearing Mr. Bush's name. Mr. Burkett said the papers appeared to be "retirement point certificates, pay documents, that sort of thing."

General Scribner dismissed the account. "It never happened as far as I know," he said. "Why would I be going into records?"

Mr. Burkett is quoted at length in a book to come out by the end of the month, "Bush's War for Re-election" by James Moore, a former Texas television reporter and co-author of "Bush's Brain."

The other Guard officer who Mr. Burkett says was with him the day he saw General Scribner going though the records, George Conn, declined in an e-mail message to comment on Mr. Burkett's statements. But Mr. Conn, a former chief warrant officer for the Texas Guard and now a civilian on duty with American forces in Europe, said: "I know LTC Bill Burkett and served with him several years ago in the Texas Army National Guard. I believe him to be honest and forthright. He `calls things like he sees them.' "

A retired officer, Lt. Col. Dennis Adams, said Mr. Burkett told him of the incidents shortly after they happened. "We talked about them several different times," said Mr. Adams, who spent 15 years in the Texas Guard and 12 years on active duty in the Army. He now works for the Texas Department of Public Safety as a security officer guarding the state Capitol.

[Secretariat]

Now let me get this right.

1. Somehow Bill Burkett is now the definitive source for the CBS documents correct?

2. John Kerry somehow is connected with this Bill Burkett and in cahoots with Rather right?

3. Max Clelland met with Burkett (who is this source for CBS I guess) and he somehow decided to promote thise docs right?

I can see none of you guys studied syllogistic logic in school.

If you did some research this info with Bill Burkett came out before the year 2000. It's very old stuff.

1. You're consumed with innuendoes based on a source (which you think is Burkett for CBS - oh that's right, Elk knows),

2. You want to tie Rather to Kerry without a shred of a connection. I'm ok with you stating its your opinion that there was a connection, but you've nothing even remotely close.

3. Reading this article it appears Burkett tried to contact the Kerry group and got the run around. So what? I'm sure a lot of people contact the Kerry camp. Heck, I have and told them I'm voting for JFK. Does that make my connnection some type of conspiracy? I thought only the far left were the conspiracy buffs. I now see otherwise.

You guys ever gonna talk abotu the issues? I may disagree with Lefty on well just about everything, but I respect him in that he at least knows that its the issues that matter. You guys should subscribe to the National Inquirer.

[PaceAdvantage]

HEY! That's National ENQUIRER to you BUB!

[ElKabong]

This is absoutely CLASSIC. Burkett not only has his hand in the cookie jar, he gets it chewed off.

Btw, to join the (losers) tx dem yahoo group, here's where you'll find them (link below). Ask for "the dumbass from Baird". He'll thrill you with tales of all kinds of chit, lol.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TexasDemocrat2/

Funny scenario #1...Burkett faxes the memos/ fake documents from the Abilene Kinko's (the nearest copy center from Burkett's hometown) to Max Cleland in mid-late August.

Exactly WHEN did Mary Mapes of CBS get these (fake) documents from her source?? According to teh LA times article, it was EXACTLY that time frame...Quoting the Times article " Although CBS News notes that Mapes had been chasing the National Guard story for five years, it only came back on the active burner in mid- to late August. .......-end.

Here's the article's link...Ties this chit in quite well. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-cbs18sep18,1,1428308.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Not saying one way or another if Cleland was the source, but it damn sure looks more than possible. On Aug 21, Burkett sent the email to the tx dem yahoo group that he "gave them the information" on how to counteract the swift's beating up on Kerry. That's about the same time Mapes rec'd her material.

Funny side item #1....Recall what Scott McClelland was doing with their cy's of the docs a couple of days after the 60 Minutes story broke?? He was passing them around to anyone in the press that wanted them. Sly as a FOX, they (white house) knew these were fake docs! "Here ya go boys, look these over RRREAL close, just like them blogger folk do, hehe".

Brilliance...

[JustRalph]

I don't remember when cleland went to crawford to ask Bush to sign something or whatever........but, I wonder if he had a meeting with anybody during that time.....makes you wonder.....

[superfecta]

Originally posted by Secretariat
You guys ever gonna talk abotu the issues? I may disagree with Lefty on well just about everything, but I respect him in that he at least knows that its the issues that matter. You guys should subscribe to the National Inquirer. Do you ever reread your posts before sending them?Why don't you ever post the changes Kerry proposes if hes elected?All I get from most pro kerry posters is George bush is an idiot so Kerry should be elected.But no real positive reasons why,just why bush should not be re elected.ABB is not a valid reason for change.

[ElKabong]

JR,

I think it was Aug 16-17 when Cleland was sent to Crawford by Kerry. He did have a posse with him whne he showed up, wouldn't doubt if he was with Jim Moore or Burkett, or both that week.

The dogshit left by these a-holes is still fresh. Burkett posts on 8/21 that he finally gets thru to Cleland and speaks to him. http://www2.swiftvets.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9834 ...that means it was sometime before 8/21, maybe a day or two. Mary Mapes at CBS (who has been on this subject for 5 frikken years) gets her material in "mid- late August.

To think Burkett might have sent those docs to Cleland, only to get knifed in the back and named as a source, is funny as hell. Burkett is a crackpot. No doubt in my mind that Burkett furnished thos fakes. It'd be rich if Cleland was outed but that won't happen. Rather would walk off teh set (again) before that happens.

[ElKabong]

Superfecta,

Speaking of Kerry.... :D

Kerry was on Imus' show last week. Here's a part of the "interview".

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6009011/

KERRY: I mean, what you ought to be doing and what everybody in America ought to be doing today is not asking me ; they ought to be asking the president, What is your plan? What’s your plan, Mr. President, to stop these kids from being killed? What’s your plan, Mr. President, to get the other countries in there? What’s your plan to have 90 percent of the casualties and 90 percent of the cost being carried by America?

IMUS: We’re asking you because you want to be president.


--nuff said.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by JustRalph
I don't remember when cleland went to crawford to ask Bush to sign something or whatever........but, I wonder if he had a meeting with anybody during that time.....makes you wonder.....

Even better, JR...Cleland went to Crawford on Aug 26... I looked it up, read 16th the first time, was the 26th, tho.

[JustMissed]

The DemLibs are so busted on this one-no way they can spin their way out of this and really no way to CYA.

Remember how Martha Stewart tried to spin her lying to Feds-guess whose getting ready to go to prision.ROTFLMAO

What is it about DemLibs and lying. They all seem to think its OK to lie. I don't get it.

Hey, could someone help me out?

What was the word Dan Rather used to describe his source for the forged docs-it was something like "most reliable", "unimpeachable" or something like that.

I can't remember but I really need to know.

See ya,

JM

[Derek2U]

LIES LIES LIES. Get over it. DEMS & REPUBLICANS & NeoCons
& Religious ------------ALL HAVE LIARS AMONG THEM. I work
on Wall St & guess what .... even Wall St has some liars. Grow UP
But there are LIES & then there are LIES. Imagine like the Enron
folks making a total life's work of LYING (and Stealing). The way
those LIES were weaved into a philosophy -- a world view. And,
BTW, I think Ken Lay could be included here, but that could be
beside the point. Martha S. lied, of course. A limited lie with very
narrow consequences. Some (me incl) would say a lie that was
made to occur by the way the FEDS set it up. It was great for
her to ask to get it done with NOW ... since MS now realizes that
she has a great life still awaiting her after.

[Equineer]

I think Wall Street often foreshadows inevitable truths by discounting untenable promises and policy misrepresentations.

How good are promises that the most recent tax cuts will remain permanent? Well, Goldman-Sachs, CitiGroup, and others have studied this question, and the answer must be "NO" else the markets would really be tanking! By Wall Street estimates, extending these cuts through ten more years would add $5.5-TRILLION to our national debt... so such a promise is simply untenable and has already been discounted as such by Wall Street.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
HEY! That's National ENQUIRER to you BUB!

Sorry, PA..I stand corrected. I figured you guys would know the spelling of it.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by superfecta
Do you ever reread your posts before sending them?Why don't you ever post the changes Kerry proposes if hes elected?All I get from most pro kerry posters is George bush is an idiot so Kerry should be elected.But no real positive reasons why,just why bush should not be re elected.ABB is not a valid reason for change.

Fair enough super...I've put a link which lists Kerry's position on just about everything if you care to look which the media seems uninterested in.

http://www.johnkerry.com/index.html

You may not like those views, but he's been consistent with them since before obtaining the primay nomination. Why I am amazed about GW is his record is abysmal. How can anyone want someone who has exploded the deficit, engaged us in a pre-emptive war based on faulty information and admits he miscalcuated, has fellow Repubs such as Lugar STATE today on ABC with Stephanpoluous state that this adminstration has been incompetent when it comes to Iraq, is recognized as the worst environmental president in history, the biggest job loss of any president in history, a worldwide increase in terrorism by Powell's own words, and a secretary of treasurer who states outsourcing is good for Americans.

Kerry has made the pledge to reduce the deficit (wipe it out? -- that is gonna be impossible), guarantee not to privatize social security, promise our troops out of Iraq prior to the next election, include other countries in the war on terrorism, and reward companie who DO NOT outsource as well cut loopholes which benefit outsourcers.

In my opinion, it comes down to a President who has the worst record I have ever seen in foreign policy alientating most of the world, a Pres who has presided over a sluggish economy, and a President who prefers bluster and swagger rather than telling the truth. I admire men like Lugar and Hagel who are not trying to deceive the American people by telling them as Bush did yesterday "I'm pleased with our progress in Iraq." at a time when insurgency has increased fourfold by his own Secretary of Defense's words.

I realize this is a very partisan board, and maybe people don't like the way I come on in my revealing the Bush record on issues, or in my admiration for John Kerry's service to our country, but I think if you believe that our country can handle four more years of the Bush approach then by all means vote for him.

But don't say there is not an alternative and Kerry has not laid out his plan. His specifics go way beyond what Mr. Bush has outlined.

[Derek2U]

EQUINEER ... I work for one of those firms & IT says this: The
Economy is TEPID, at best; Fragile. The TAX CUTS are scarey.
Wall ST roots 4 Bush cause (1) The STREET hates the UNknown;
(2) Privatizing SS funds; (3) MORE CORP Profits; (4) MORE TAX
CUTS vis capital gains etc. ********* All MONEY reasons. With
that in mind, they also know that the TAX CUTS will kill future
generations & social programs but they DO NOT CARE cause
they will make even greater MONEY in the future. SECRETARIAT ..
Bush remains vague because he's been rewarded by vagueness,
deception, and pig-headed to changing events. If cappers didn't
adjust their thinking when Belmont turned VERY WET yesterday,
well, they probly picked badly. When will this country insist that
their leader MUST be VERY INTELLIGENT ... and more, of course.
I see ~~10 issues that Bushies ignore & I think we will pay dearly eventually. Maybe peeps are just fearful to reason. Bush
has had 4 years & in 5 (at least) categories he has FAILED. It
beats me why so many want him for 4 more.

[Secretariat]

Thank you for posting the link so I could actually read the interview rather than your selective post from it.

If one looks at the question IMUS asked leading into Kerry's response (which you conveniently left out), you'd understand his response:

Here is the question IMUS asked:

"Meanwhile, we had three soldiers dead in Iraq YESTERDAY and how many die before -- wind up over there in the rehab room at Walter Reed before a plan like this kicks into effect? Also, I was talking to...

KERRY's RESPONSE:

KERRY: Well, Don, I realize that, but the fact is that the president iIS the president. I mean, what you ought to be doing and what everybody in America ought to be doing TODAY is not asking me; they ought to be asking the president, What is your plan? What's your plan, Mr. President, to STOP these kids from being killed? What's your plan, Mr. President, to get the other countries in there? What's your plan to have 90 percent of the casualties and 90 percent of the cost being carried by America? I mean, he is the president TODAY, and we have given him advice from day one; from day one, from the floor of the Senate when we debated it where I said don't -- you know, you've got to have other countries with you, don't make an end runaround the U.N., the difficulty is not winning the military, it's winning the peace; and he ignored it. And others -- the bipartisan, Dick Lugar, the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and Joe Biden, and the Foreign Relations Committee gave him advice that he chose to ignore. And since then, many times we've stood up and said, "Mr. President, this is what you have to do." He's chosen not to do those things."

In other words Kerry was responding to Imus's question about deaths yesterday and current people going to Walter Reed hospital. For god's sake, he has no control over the next months until late January. His response was HOW can he deal with current decisions in Iraq. These are Bush's decisions until late January. Ask Bush about the boys who died in Iraq yesterday. Ask the President who has ignored the advice that the Lugar and Hagel and Biden and Kerry have made.

And Kerry's response after Imus's we're asking you was:

KERRY: I can't tell you what I'm going to find on the ground on January 20th.

Exactly, the situation keeps getting worse and worse. He has said he'll try to involve other countries to help pay WHICH Bush will have a snowball chance of hell of doing.

IMUS then attempted to change the subject:

IMUS: He's not calling me (Bush) to be on the program. I had his dad on, so dad's still sore at you, some of those votes you cast when he was president, by the way.

KERRY: Well, his dad was the one who recommended military cuts back then, and Dick Cheney was the vice president of the United States, who recommended those military cuts back then.

Elk,I'm glad you posted the link, and let us read the actual interview, but I'd leave the truncated Swift Vote type of editorializing out if it.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Actually Sec, I was pasting the story so we could get to the issue of Bush's people gleaning records- it appears Bill's ravings on that subject is colored by his proximate breakdown and depression; therefore the sustance of his accusations of Bush shredding documents is highly suspect. Never mind for now if he faked the later memos.
I would like you to answer- how common do you think it was for a lot of people to get special treatment in regard to Vietman? I think it was common, whether those recieving favors were aware or not.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
I would like you to answer- how common do you think it was for a lot of people to get special treatment in regard to Vietman? I think it was common, whether those recieving favors were aware or not.

I am in agreement, and to show no partisanship here, I beleive Bentsen's boy benefitted from the Champagne Unit in Texas, as Sununu claimed in the 88 campaign.

[JustMissed]

Originally posted by Derek2U
EQUINEER ... I work for one of those firms & IT says this: The
Economy is TEPID, at best; Fragile. The TAX CUTS are scarey.
Wall ST roots 4 Bush cause (1) The STREET hates the UNknown;
(2) Privatizing SS funds; (3) MORE CORP Profits; (4) MORE TAX
CUTS vis capital gains etc. ********* All MONEY reasons. With
that in mind, they also know that the TAX CUTS will kill future
generations & social programs but they DO NOT CARE cause
they will make even greater MONEY in the future. SECRETARIAT ..
Bush remains vague because he's been rewarded by vagueness,
deception, and pig-headed to changing events. If cappers didn't
adjust their thinking when Belmont turned VERY WET yesterday,
well, they probly picked badly. When will this country insist that
their leader MUST be VERY INTELLIGENT ... and more, of course.
I see ~~10 issues that Bushies ignore & I think we will pay dearly eventually. Maybe peeps are just fearful to reason. Bush
has had 4 years & in 5 (at least) categories he has FAILED. It
beats me why so many want him for 4 more.

DEREK2U , I was wondering, how often do you have to vacuum those big buildings?

I'm sure you empty the waste baskets every night but do you have to vacuum & dust and mop every night also. Seems like a lot of work!

JM

[Equineer]

So many charges and countercharges, spins and lies... I wish both sides would level with us.

I heard about this from an Indian businessman (motel owner)... what do you think?

Native-born Indians are allowed to maintain dual citizenships after they emigrate. This encourages naturalized U.S. citizens from India to invest in India's economic development because they are entitled to extra privileges via dual citizenship.

Since every vote counts, a group calling itself Indians For Bush is campaigning in India, hoping that Indians will influence their dual-citizen relatives in America to vote for Bush.

Puppet shows are very popular in India. The Indians For Bush sponsor several traveling puppeteer troupes that entertain villagers with heavily politicized puppet shows. In one popular skit, the Bush puppet saves villagers from a rogue tiger and promises to give every village family at least one American job.

However, the Indians For Bush never mention Kerry's name, much less indulge in Kerry-bashing. This seems to me how both U. S. parties should run campaigns... by exalting their own candidates rather than trashing opponents... and by addressing current issues that will impact the lives of every voter.

Don't you wish Kerry and Bush would stop negative campaigns against each other and then start talking straight with us?

[Secretariat]

Is this a joke or on the level?

I can understand Indians for Bush. The amount of outsourcing to India has helepd their economy dramatically. Puppet shows or not. Lou Dobbs, no friend to liberals, has attested often enough to that.

[JustMissed]

HUGE!

From the drudgereport.com:

"CBS to Air Interview With Suspected Source of Bush Guard Memos

CBS Rather has interviewed retired lieutenant colonel Bill Burkett widely believed to have provided disputed National Guard documents. CBS plans to air interview in coming days, WASH POST reports Monday, sources tell DRUDGE. Rather was in Texas over the weekend for the interview with Burkett... Developing... "

Wonder what's going on. Has to be favorable to Rather(or so he thinks) or they wouldn't be showing it. Probably just more DemLib lies.

Could be an angle of Bill Clinton trying to explain the meaning of the word "is".

Maybe Rather will claim that the word "reconstruct" does not mean the same thing as "forged". Can't wait til tomorrow.


JM

[boxcar]

More Unadulterate Drivel from Secretariat:

But don't say there is not an alternative and Kerry has not laid out his plan. His specifics go way beyond what Mr. Bush has outlined.

Oh...you mean like the "specifics" stated in the blurb below on that page to which you linked us?

John Kerry and John Edwards know how to spend responsibly, and they believe that Americans deserve to expect more than record deficits and reckless spending. In their first term, they will cut the deficit in half and cut taxes for middle-class Americans and small businesses while funding better, more affordable health care for all Americans, improving our schools, and securing our country.

No wonder nearly everyone here thinks you're as Clueless as the Clueless Wonder you're supporting!

Boxcar

[Dave Schwartz]

Derek,

You said:

>>>LIES LIES LIES. Get over it. DEMS & REPUBLICANS & NeoCons
& Religious ------------ALL HAVE LIARS AMONG THEM. I work
on Wall St & guess what .... even Wall St has some liars.<<<


"Some liars?" LOL

But you have made the point and I agree with you.

Lest my fellow republicans fail to recall, there was a guy named Nixon a few years back that got caught doing a few left-field kind of things.

Left and right politicos are peas in a pd.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[sq764]

Derek, honestly, that was the most well thought out, intuitive post I have ever seen you make on PA..

And I happen to agree with most of it..

A lot of the process is based on money, no doubt.. You think the reason they didn't lynch Clinton was POSSIBLY that people were making money hand over fist??

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Sorry, PA..I stand corrected. I figured you guys would know the spelling of it.

And I figured this would be your exact reply. Glad we have each other figured out....

[superfecta]

Originally posted by boxcar
More Unadulterate Drivel from Secretariat:

But don't say there is not an alternative and Kerry has not laid out his plan. His specifics go way beyond what Mr. Bush has outlined.

Oh...you mean like the "specifics" stated in the blurb below on that page to which you linked us?

John Kerry and John Edwards know how to spend responsibly, and they believe that Americans deserve to expect more than record deficits and reckless spending. In their first term, they will cut the deficit in half and cut taxes for middle-class Americans and small businesses while funding better, more affordable health care for all Americans, improving our schools, and securing our country.

No wonder nearly everyone here thinks you're as Clueless as the Clueless Wonder you're supporting!

Boxcar I read the Kerry Plans and don't see any difference in what he will do as opposed to what is being done now.Maybe the only argument could be made about tax cuts,but no specifics,only generalities,saying the tax cuts Bush made are bad.the rest is typical politician talk.but that line about making sure companies stay here instead of going overseas is ironic.Guess he forgot to tell the wife about that one?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by boxcar
More Unadulterate Drivel from Secretariat:

But don't say there is not an alternative and Kerry has not laid out his plan. His specifics go way beyond what Mr. Bush has outlined.

Oh...you mean like the "specifics" stated in the blurb below on that page to which you linked us?

John Kerry and John Edwards know how to spend responsibly, and they believe that Americans deserve to expect more than record deficits and reckless spending. In their first term, they will cut the deficit in half and cut taxes for middle-class Americans and small businesses while funding better, more affordable health care for all Americans, improving our schools, and securing our country.

No wonder nearly everyone here thinks you're as Clueless as the Clueless Wonder you're supporting!

Boxcar

When Bush walks the walk on deficit control rather than talk the talk then maybe you can say something.

As is, look at Kerry's record, he was a Dem who advocated the balanced budget amendment. Bush has never balanced a ledger sheet in his life. Never ran a company with a profit, why would you think he could run a government that was balanced?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
And I figured this would be your exact reply. Glad we have each other figured out....

Yep.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by superfecta
I read the Kerry Plans and don't see any difference in what he will do as opposed to what is being done now.Maybe the only argument could be made about tax cuts,but no specifics,only generalities,saying the tax cuts Bush made are bad.the rest is typical politician talk.but that line about making sure companies stay here instead of going overseas is ironic.Guess he forgot to tell the wife about that one?

Sure there are specifics. He targets those making over 200,000 with the burden of helping to pay for the war on Iraq for one. That's one way to recoup 200 BILLION rather than adding more debt. He beleives in diplomacy not unilateralism. He is OUR only chance to get other countries to help pay the bill in Iraq. He has guaranteed no privatization of Social Security, which Bush has not done. He has promised troops will be out of Iraq by end of his first term which Bush has not done. In fact the Iraqi Defense Minister is talking 5 to 10 years of American troops in Iraq. He has advocated a balanced budget amendment which Bush has not done. Today, he is speaking about his 4 point plan on Iraq at NYU in contrast to a President who has no plan. Who insists elections will be held when huge portions of the country are not even stabilized. Who, by the Iraqi defense minster's onw accoutn says mores and more terrorists are now entering Iraq, by Senate Repub Hagel who wants to make sure there is "grand illusion we are winning" and Senator Lugar who says the Iraq post-war has been handled "incompetently" by this adminstration.

This isn't Ted Kennedy or Hilary Clinton saying these things about Bush (they say far worse), but members of Bush's own party.

I realize many on this board don't like Kerry for whatever reason. His comments after Nam, his painting by the Repub party of being a flip flopper, or maybe they don't like his wife. Whatever...What I do know is the current President's record has been a disaster, both economically and in terms of worldwide inclusion and fostering the peace in Iraq, and in his failed attmepts to reduce terrorism worldwide. His ONLY claim to fame is we have not been hit again in the US since 911, yet we are told continually it is going to happen.

To say Kerry is the same as Bush is inaccurate, AND many Repubs on this board would agree with that. Right Lefty?

I think he has made a number of very specific pledges. Many more so than Bush.

[Big Bill]

According to Neal Boortz:

WAS SAD MAX THE PART OF THE PHONY DOCUMENTS SCAM?

How long has it been now? Two weeks? Two weeks ---- and Dan Rather is still stonewalling. Even though CBS seems to be ready to admit that it was duped, Rather is holding fast. He still has not admitted that those documents he so proudly flourished on 60 Minutes II the week before last were fakes. Forgeries. Phonies.

This past weekend CBS came up with a rather unusual twist. It was yet another glorious explanation of just why Dan Rather used those documents ... and how he was so terribly, absolutely, completely right to do so. See if you can follow this. Before the ill-fated 60 Minutes II show was aired some CBS reporters showed the documents to the White House and asked for comments. Since the White House didn't charge that the documents were forgeries at that time that must mean that they were real. So, you see, it was all the fault of the White House.

This morning we have the New York Times saying that CBS is preparing an announcement .. possibly for today ... that they were duped; that they had been deceived as to the origin of the documents. Unidentified CBS officials told Times reporters that the report was too flawed to go on the air. This turn-around was apparently prompted by the results of a weekend interview of retired National Guard Lt. Col Bill Burkett by Dan Rather and a CBS executive. Burkett is the man identified as the possible source of the CBS documents.

So .. now CBS is the victim? After two weeks of drinking their own Kool-Aid...insisting that the documents were accurate, and trotting out experts who supported their claims, suddenly CBS is the victim here? CBS wasn't duped - their viewers were. The documents were obvious forgeries, and CBS ignored the warnings from their own experts that they didn't look authentic. In other words, they're acting like they accepted a $100 bill drawn with a green crayon and were deceived. We're going to buy that, aren't we?

The story out today says that Rather still believes that what is in the documents is accurate. Sorry, but there's no logical way to arrive at that conclusion. The man who didn't write the memos died 20 years ago. His surviving kin (son and wife) say there's no way he wrote them. Yet we're supposed to believe Dan Rather and CBS News that the memos might be fake, but hey the contents are accurate! So why would they think that?

Because they want to believe it. Such is their pent-up Bush-bashing hatred that they are willing to broadcast a false story based on forged documents to advance a political cause. Dan Rather wanted revenge...and he smelled blood. This was going to be his big story to go out on....the news story that brought down a sitting president and led to his re-election defeat. Instead, their carefully constructed fantasy collapsed - and with it what was left of a major media institution's integrity. In the end, Rather didn't take down George W. Bush, he took down CBS News and his career.

The mystery has been just why Rather has seemed almost afraid to step forward and admit that the documents are forgeries! At this point virtually everyone else in the media -- and that includes the DC and NYC press corps -- knows the documents are fakes, his CBS bosses are about to capitulate, yet Rather is still using his "the documents may be fake, but they're correct" escape valve?

Dan Rather is perhaps the most partisan of the major broadcast network news anchors. His hatred of all things Bush approaches the pathological. I would submit to you that Dan Rather's burning desire to see John Kerry elected this fall has clouded his news judgment. He was all-too-eager to jump on a story that he thought could wound or possibly cripple Bush. I don't think for a moment that Rather would intentionally present documents he knew to be forged to his audience, even if he thought those documents would help his chosen candidate. Rather's eagerness to hurt George Bush caused him to stumble blindly into the forged documents scandal.

Stand buy, folks. This story just might get far more interesting. CBS can't be allowed to get by with a "we were duped" admission. If they admit that the documents were forged, then the documents, who forged them, and how they got to CBS become the story. There should be no pretense at protecting sources. You don't protect sources who feed you bogus documents. To maintain even a sliver of journalistic integrity CBS will have to divulge just where those documents came from.

Divulging the source of those documents would be no problem to Dan Rather if that source was operating independently of the Democratic Party or of the Kerry Campaign. That appeared to be the case last week when Burkett was identified as a probable source. Burkett was known to hold a grudge against George Bush for some perceived wrongs during Burkett's service in the Guard. In some of his writings Burkett had compared Bush to Hitler. So, if Burkett supplied the documents, then we can expect to see CBS finger him sooner rather than later.

But what if CBS didn't get those documents from Burkett? What if there was an intermediary? What if there was a intermediary who commanded enough respect in the CBS newsroom that the authenticity of the documents was merely assumed? After all, if Burkett had been the source of those documents, don't you suppose that the CBS producers might do just a bit of research on Burkett before they used them? Wouldn't that research reveal the "Hitler" remark and other troubling aspects of Burkett's past? Would Rather use documents provided by a relative unknown with a demonstrable grudge without some fairly heavy duty vetting? So ... again; maybe the documents didn't come from Burkett, at least not directly.

Enter the man not named in this morning's New York Times story. Enter Max Cleland.

This weekend we learned that Bill Burkett developed an itchy keyboard finger a few weeks ago and decided to do a bit of bragging to his Texas Democrat friends. On August 21st Burkett wrote an email to a group of Texas Democrats saying that he had passed some information to a former senator who was out there working for John Kerry. Burkett said that he initiated a contact with the Kerry campaign that resulted in him getting a phone call from Max Cleland. Cleland, as you probably know, is the obsessively bitter Vietnam War veteran who lost his first race for reelection to the U.S. Senate representing Georgia. The Georgia voters resented the manner in which Cleland became a lap dog to Tom Daschle and his choice to work to strengthen government employee unions at the expense of a strong Department of Homeland Security. In his email message Burkett said that he gave Max Cleland information that could be used to mount a counterattack against the critics of Kerry's service in Vietnam.

Information? What information? Isn't it perfectly logical to believe that the information that Burkett is talking about is, in fact, the forged documents used by Dan Rather?

Here is where we see a possible reason for Rather's stonewalling.

Is it possible that Max Cleland is actually the source of those documents? Possible, yes. Proven, no. Could Burkett have passed the documents to Cleland who then made them available to CBS News? I'm just saying it's possible, folks. But this scenario would explain why Rather had circled the wagons. Max Cleland is part of the Kerry campaign team. It was Max Cleland that John Kerry sent to the gates of the Bush Ranch in Crawford, Texas for a publicity stunt. Kerry is Cleland's instrument of revenge against the Republican Party that deprived him of his seat in the U.S. Senate, and the Kerry Campaign knows all-to-well how to take advantage of an eager dupe. If ... and I'm saying IF ... the source of the documents was Cleland, then the Kerry Campaign is directly implemented in the scandal. Turn out the lights.

Let me add that I hope that the scenario I put forward here is completely false. I've known Max Cleland for years. I love the man, truly .. though I doubt that he would throw a glass of water on me if I caught fire. I and many other Georgians watched in total despair as he sold his very soul to Tom Daschle and the Democratic Party. Cleland would have been Georgia's Senator for Life if he had simply put the interests of the country and his state above the interests of his party and government employee unions. Some of hope that one day the kind, gregarious and gentle man that was Max Cleland will come home.

If CBS does, in fact, admit that the documents were fakes, and that the vaunted CBS news team was tricked, we can't let the story end there. It can't end with an apology for airing the memos, a statement that the content of the memos are still believed to be accurate, and a producer thrown to the wolves. If CBS continues to cover up where the documents came from ... the entire chain of possession ... then we'll know that the bigger story hasn't yet seen the light of day.

Big Bill

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Secretariat
He beleives in diplomacy not unilateralism. He is OUR only chance to get other countries to help pay the bill in Iraq.

which means he will reward France and Germany who were both profiting from the oil for food program and selling arms to Iraq........and it looks like now they were also maybe allowing money to go to Al Qauda

[/B]

There are so many other problems with your post......I don't have time to mention them all.........

[boxcar]

Sec, Kerry has been very, very (to the point of tedious) long on Bush criticisms (most of them unconstructive to boot) and just as short on details on how he would implement his stated policies. For example: HOW would he get Ultra Reluctant France and Germany on board to help out militarily?

And how come the Prermier Flip Flopper, who said just several weeks ago that he would get our troops out of Iraq within 6 months of him being in office has now changed that period to within 48 months.

Around 11 A.M. this morning, The Windbag spouted one criticism after another for about 40 minutes...only to end his diatribe with (to paraphrase) -- I have a plan for a new strategy. But he never uttered a word about any specifics of that "plan". Not a word.

In summary: John Windbag Kerry has a seemingly inexhaustable supply of Wind containing not an iota of Substance.

Boxcar

[superfecta]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Sure there are specifics. He targets those making over 200,000 with the burden of helping to pay for the war on Iraq for one. That's one way to recoup 200 BILLION rather than adding more debt. He beleives in diplomacy not unilateralism. He is OUR only chance to get other countries to help pay the bill in Iraq. He has guaranteed no privatization of Social Security, which Bush has not done. He has promised troops will be out of Iraq by end of his first term which Bush has not done. In fact the Iraqi Defense Minister is talking 5 to 10 years of American troops in Iraq. He has advocated a balanced budget amendment which Bush has not done. Today, he is speaking about his 4 point plan on Iraq at NYU in contrast to a President who has no plan. Who insists elections will be held when huge portions of the country are not even stabilized. Who, by the Iraqi defense minster's onw accoutn says mores and more terrorists are now entering Iraq, by Senate Repub Hagel who wants to make sure there is "grand illusion we are winning" and Senator Lugar who says the Iraq post-war has been handled "incompetently" by this adminstration.

This isn't Ted Kennedy or Hilary Clinton saying these things about Bush (they say far worse), but members of Bush's own party.

I realize many on this board don't like Kerry for whatever reason. His comments after Nam, his painting by the Repub party of being a flip flopper, or maybe they don't like his wife. Whatever...What I do know is the current President's record has been a disaster, both economically and in terms of worldwide inclusion and fostering the peace in Iraq, and in his failed attmepts to reduce terrorism worldwide. His ONLY claim to fame is we have not been hit again in the US since 911, yet we are told continually it is going to happen.

To say Kerry is the same as Bush is inaccurate, AND many Repubs on this board would agree with that. Right Lefty?

I think he has made a number of very specific pledges. Many more so than Bush. Maybe you should voice your opinion to the Kerry website ,you are doing a better job of detailing Kerry better than Kerry or his organization .In one post.

[Tom]

France, Russia, Germany, in the oil for food scam, and now the terroroists are found using weapons supplied by...France, Russia, and Germany!
Sec, what do they have to do to get your attention? Drop two towers on it? Did you learn nothing since 9-11-01?
Get real man, the terrorists in Iraq are funded and aided by Europe and the UN.
And your boy Kerry is NOT the man to stop them. He will destroy the economy with his absolutely stupid tax the rich sheme. It might work for one guy, a gigilo like him, but you CANNOT single the group of people who make this economy go and expect to solve anything.

[JustRalph]

Noticeable Absences on the board tonight.........

[Tom]

IT is a liberal holiday....LayLow.
Features whine and cheeses.


Must be OT at DNC headquarters tonight. That'll get the economy going! Hehehe.

[Steve 'StatMan']

I was tempeted to take a poll asking how long it would take before some of our Notable Off Topic buddies posted again, but I didn't want to open the door to a bunch of personal attacks on our obviously disappointed fellow board-members and Off-Topic antagonists. Gotta be hard to have a national story like this blow up in their faces - like a punch in the guts, or maybe being torn a new a-hole without any anestesia. :eek: :D

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
I was tempeted to take a poll asking how long it would take before some of our Notable Off Topic buddies posted again, but I didn't want to open the door to a bunch of personal attacks on our obviously disappointed fellow board-members and Off-Topic antagonists. Gotta be hard to have a national story like this blow up in their faces - like a punch in the guts, or maybe being torn a new a-hole without any anestesia. :eek: :D


Can only speak for me :D

According to Sec, I was supposed to "feel real bad" when Burkett was found not to be the source for the fake docs showing up at cBS....Imagine my shock when I saw Burkett on the cBS evening news sitting across from Rather talking about the docs he gave to Rather ;)

[Steve 'StatMan']

I remembered that post! :D I just couldn't find it to quote from it. I'd wanted to say that none of us could possibly feel as bad as Dan Rather & CBS News if they found out the documents were fake. And yet it happened. And here it is. :D :rolleyes: :D

[Steve 'StatMan']

In fact, Burkett seemed rather obstinant, and rather proud of himself, in that interview with Dan Rather, didn't he?

FLUSH! Away goes their credibility down the drain.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Now let me get this right.

1. Somehow Bill Burkett is now the definitive source for the CBS documents correct?

2. John Kerry somehow is connected with this Bill Burkett and in cahoots with Rather right?

3. Max Clelland met with Burkett (who is this source for CBS I guess) and he somehow decided to promote thise docs right?

I can see none of you guys studied syllogistic logic in school.

If you did some research this info with Bill Burkett came out before the year 2000. It's very old stuff.

1. You're consumed with innuendoes based on a source (which you think is Burkett for CBS - oh that's right, Elk knows),

2. You want to tie Rather to Kerry without a shred of a connection. I'm ok with you stating its your opinion that there was a connection, but you've nothing even remotely close.

3. Reading this article it appears Burkett tried to contact the Kerry group and got the run around. So what? I'm sure a lot of people contact the Kerry camp. Heck, I have and told them I'm voting for JFK. Does that make my connnection some type of conspiracy? I thought only the far left were the conspiracy buffs. I now see otherwise.

You guys ever gonna talk abotu the issues? I may disagree with Lefty on well just about everything, but I respect him in that he at least knows that its the issues that matter. You guys should subscribe to the National Inquirer.

Sec, It is amazing how stupid this post makes you look. Now it has come out that Lockhart and Cleland both spoke with Burkett and that the CBS producer actually has been working all along with the Kerry Campaign. The producer's father was interviewed on the radio on her home town today. He said that it is disgraceful what she has become. " A Liberal with a Feminist Agenda"

Oh by the way, syllogism has a definition that implies using deductive reasoning. I am going to use a little of your "syllogistic logic " and tell you that I have deduced that the Kerry campaign was behind this, or at minimum involved in a colluded effort with CBS to effect the outcome of the election. They conspired to make a difference in a National Election. This is downright criminal. The DNC and the Kerry Campaign issued an email release about the sixty minutes spot within about 12 minutes of the sixty minutes broadcast conclusion. You think they might have had an inside on the facts and what was about to be broadcast? Or do you think they can whack out a press release and run it up the chain for approval and then produce and email it in 12 minutes? I hope there is a U.S. Attorney somewhere who has the balls to look for criminal indictments of the CBS troup and Burkett et al. I will be writing a letter to the U.S. Attorney for the district Burkett lives in.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Steve'StatMan'BTW
In fact, Burkett seemed rather obstinant, and rather proud of himself, in that interview with Dan Rather, didn't he?




Burkett does seem to be ALL OVER the place Steve, lol. If ya get a coupla minutes, read this usa today article of Burkett. Seems he's ready to blow his melon off. In a way I feel sorry for him but what he's done is larcenous.

One minute he's a high, the next he's suicidal....now he's making chit up along the way.

http://usatoday.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=USATODAY.com+-+CBS+backs+off+Guard+story&expire=&urlID=11705426&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitic selections%2Fnation%2Fpresident%2F2004-09-21-cover-guard_x.htm&partnerID=1660

---Tired of 'being the bad guy'

Burkett's emotions varied widely in the interviews. One session ended when Burkett suffered a violent seizure and collapsed in his chair. Earlier, he said he was coming forward now to explain what he had done and why to try to salvage his reputation. In the past week, Burkett was named by many news reports as the probable source of the documents.

"It's time," Burkett said. "I'm tired of me being the bad guy. I'm tired of losing everything we've got," a reference to his financial and health struggles since he left the Guard. Turning to his wife, Nicki, he said: "We've lost it all, baby. We've lost everything.".......

---After he received the documents in Houston, Burkett said, he drove home, stopping on the way at a Kinko's shop in Waco to copy the six memos. In the parking lot outside, he said, he burned the ones he had been given and the envelope they were in. Ramirez was worried about leaving forensic evidence on them that might lead back to her, Burkett said, acknowledging that the story sounded fantastic. "This is going to sound like some damn sci-fi movie," he said.

[superfecta]

Originally posted by ElKabong
Seems he's ready to blow his melon off. In a way I feel sorry for him but what he's done is larcenous.

One minute he's a high, the next he's suicidal....now he's making chit up along the way.

http://usatoday.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=USATODAY.com+-+CBS+backs+off+Guard+story&expire=&urlID=11705426&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitic selections%2Fnation%2Fpresident%2F2004-09-21-cover-guard_x.htm&partnerID=1660

---Tired of 'being the bad guy'

Burkett's emotions varied widely in the interviews. One session ended when Burkett suffered a violent seizure and collapsed in his chair. Earlier, he said he was coming forward now to explain what he had done and why to try to salvage his reputation. In the past week, Burkett was named by many news reports as the probable source of the documents.

"It's time," Burkett said. "I'm tired of me being the bad guy. I'm tired of losing everything we've got," a reference to his financial and health struggles since he left the Guard. Turning to his wife, Nicki, he said: "We've lost it all, baby. We've lost everything.".......

---After he received the documents in Houston, Burkett said, he drove home, stopping on the way at a Kinko's shop in Waco to copy the six memos. In the parking lot outside, he said, he burned the ones he had been given and the envelope they were in. Ramirez was worried about leaving forensic evidence on them that might lead back to her, Burkett said, acknowledging that the story sounded fantastic. "This is going to sound like some damn sci-fi movie," he said. whats the over and under on him?I say Nov. 3.Too bad CBS won't have a source anymore.
Whats with burning the supposed originals?He must be crazy to do that,even if they for real.

[ElKabong]

Superfecta,

You ain't too far off. I (almost) feel sorry for the guy, I really do. I've heard him call into a talk show (Texas Overnight) before, he's a shaky dude. All over the place.

To think Dan Rather and cBS News thought of Bill Burkett as an "unimpeachable source" boggles the mind.

[Tom]

This amature investigation by cBS News cast doubt on every singe story they have done on any of thier shows.
No one can believe any of thier investigations any more. The firing has to go right to the top - the CEO and chairman must go.

[boxcar]

ElKabong wrote:

You ain't too far off. I (almost) feel sorry for the guy, I really do. I've heard him call into a talk show (Texas Overnight) before, he's a shaky dude. All over the place.

To think Dan Rather and cBS News thought of Bill Burkett as an "unimpeachable source" boggles the mind.

And to think that Rather said that a mistake was made 'in good faith" makes me more than incredulous, given this "unimpeachable source's" well known reputation for having an axe to grind about Bush, and the fact that CBS was forewarned by experts about the legitimacy of the those docs. What liars these low lifes are!

Boxcar

[ElKabong]

Boxcar,

Any quotes by cBS stating they had no prior knowledge of Burkett's checkered past is blatantly false. Burkett is well known among Texas Dem politics. They knew exactly who (and what) they were dealing with.

Rather's daughter Robin certainly knew the story on Burkett. Dan knew what he had in Burkett, now he's gotta pay the piper.

[ElKabong]

JR mentioned this before....Here's why Mapes and Burkett need to worry:

Title 18 of the United States Code:

Sec. 2197. - Misuse of Federal certificate, license or document
Whoever, not being lawfully entitled thereto, uses, exhibits, or
attempts to use or exhibit, or, with intent unlawfully to use the
same, receives or possesses any certificate, license, or document
issued to vessels, or officers or seamen by any officer or
employee of the United States authorized by law to issue the same; or

Whoever, without authority, alters or attempts to alter any such certificate, license, or document by addition, interpolation, deletion, or erasure; or

Whoever forges, counterfeits, or steals, or attempts to forge, counterfeit, or steal, any such certificate, license, or document; or unlawfully possesses or knowingly uses any such altered, changed, forged, counterfeit, or stolen certificate, license, or document; or

Whoever, without authority, prints or manufactures any blank form of such certificate, license, or document, or

Whoever possesses without lawful excuse, and with intent unlawfully to use the same, any blank form of such certificate, license, or document; or

Whoever, in any manner, transfers or negotiates such transfer of, any blank form of such certificate, license, or document, or any such altered, forged, counterfeit, or stolen certificate, license, or document, or any such certificate, license, or document to which the party transferring or receiving the same is not lawfully entitled -

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both

[boxcar]

ElKabong wrote:

JR mentioned this before....Here's why Mapes and Burkett need to worry:

Title 18 of the United States Code:

So what that there may have been some obscure, archaic and arcane federal laws broken? Forget about phony, forged, fake documents. You're missing the thrust of the real story, which is...Bush didn't deserve his Honorable Discharge because he served dishonorably. Let's stay on message/topic here, okay? And let's focus on the contents of the those phony docs which were given to the masses in "good faith".

Thanks,
Boxcar

[Steve 'StatMan']

Boxcar, did you forget the :D after that last post?

[boxcar]

StatMan, most of the folks around here know me well enough. No need for any icons.

Boxcar