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cj
03-10-2002, 07:33 PM
Saw this on ESPN.com...anybody have to deal with this?

Way to go Gulfstream...I thought this stuff only happened at bush league tracks. Oh, wait a minute, I guess it did, because GP is quickly approaching that status!

CJ


http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2002/0310/1348918.html

BillW
03-10-2002, 08:24 PM
I didn't think another clod or two would even be noticed at GP. :)

Bill W.

karlskorner
03-10-2002, 08:41 PM
cjmilkowski;

After 2 days of heavy duty rain, the turf course was far from being firm. Although it looked good in the AM, after the 6th it was chewed up and during the 9th it really took a beating. You could see mud clods everywhere through your glasses in the 6th and 9th race. Rene Douglas received a fairly solid bruise.

It may not have been the best decission, but it was the only decission to make.

Karl

linrom1
03-10-2002, 09:14 PM
It was not the right decision to make since it came after most bets were already made.

The so called consolation DD payed less then the winning bet on the first leg of the DD. Also since GP gives you the post time favorite, it literally screwes all P3 nad P6 players.

GP should've cancelled the the race, and paid out P3, and P6 to all live players.

cj
03-10-2002, 10:02 PM
I agree...I was not saying the race had to be on turf, but the bettors got screwed. Much like the Pimlico race on Preakness day when some idiot ran on the track and some were given refunds while others were not. The race should have been cancelled or at the least consolation payoffs issued for the exotic wagers that had already been placed. To force someone to keep a bet they made when the race was slated for turf is wrong!

Only similiar incident I recall was one day at Laurel, a turf race had been slated for 1 1/16 miles. Although everyone was well informed that the race was "off the turf", all were shocked to see the horses start out of the chute and run 7f. It was never once announced.

CJ

karlskorner
03-10-2002, 10:21 PM
linrom1

There is no question that you are right, it was a raw deal for the exotic players, I for one just didn't play the race.

Part of the problem as I understand it was finding someone with authority to switch to the dirt. You just can't cancel a race, that's a big no no. After the jocks refused, the stewards could have caused them to race, but the jeopardy of life and limb of both jocks and animals was at stake. Bad decission, but it had to be made.

Karl

Jeff P
03-10-2002, 10:51 PM
Just when you think you've seen it all...

Yes, we the bettors (pick three and double players) got screwed. But it's not the first time this has happened at Gulfstream. Or other tracks for that matter.

The Monday before last, (at Gulfstream oddly enough) they essentially did the same thing- announced that a race was being taken off the turf just as the horses two races prior were approaching the gate. At the time they announced it, on that particular Monday, no information as to scratches was available. Then, AFTER the first leg of that pick three was run, scratches for the turf race now being run on the dirt (the third leg of the pick three) were made available. That particular pick three paid over $1400.00 for $2.00.

Funny thng is, had I known which horses would be scratched from the third leg of the pick three BEFORE the first leg of the pick three was run, it was one that I very easily could have had. Of course, had accurate information as to the scratches in the third leg been available, it probably would have paid no more than $200.00 or so. The reason for the high payout was that all the pick three money on the horses that were scratched went to the post time favorite who ran out. The winner, who was probably the sixth or seventh logical choice before any scratches were made, became, in my opinion, the second or third logical choice AFTER the scratches were made.

I'm going to file that one away for later. It won't happen but three or four times a year. But the next time I face a situation like that, where I want to play a pick three that includes a race being taken off the turf, where I just KNOW that there are going to be scratches, but no announcement has yet been made- That is one time that I am going to use that ALL button.

charleslanger
03-11-2002, 01:35 AM
supposedly the jocks had telephoned stewards with their decision almost one hour before actual track announcement. Track should've immediately notified everyone and then spent time debating ancillary issues, not even the trainers had an inkling! With 11 minutes to post(time of announcement) three horses had to be scratched because there was not enough time for so simple a chore as to outfit them with rundown bandages! The first mistake(delay in announcement) was followed by an even more egregious one: not delaying or cancelling race so the poor beasts could run with proper shoes and other equipment so as not to compromise their own lives as well as their riders', and so all bettors could recoup previous wagers. What a callous placing of a few dollars' profits above all else!

sq764
03-11-2002, 09:36 AM
What the hell is happening to Gulfstream? Fields shorter, short prices? Is this simply because Magna made them increase the racing dates? Is this what stretched the horses thin?

rrbauer
03-11-2002, 11:26 AM
The GP turf fiasco was predictable. The only uncertainty was what shape it would take.

Last year, if you will recall, the GP turf course got so bad that they had to cancel a lot of turf races and then finally ran out the meet using the turf course at HIA. This year there is no HIA to fall back on. And, to boot, the meet at GP is longer this year.

Yet in spite of past history and the lack of any alternative track to turn to (remember CRC is a CDSN track) here is GP running all of these MSW turf races chewing up the turf course in the process. I haven't played GP since the Fountain of Youth and I think that the only thing that I've missed is agony!!

As someone wagged on another board, "Wonder if they cancelled the concert!" :)

FortuneHunter
03-11-2002, 01:47 PM
I have always felt that NYRA pulls Turf Races too quickly particularly at Saratoga. They make their decision early in the day and always on the very conservative side.
Now I will stop bitching.
FH

anotherdave
03-11-2002, 01:58 PM
I don't know about this one. Sounds like they were a little slow at GP, but there have been several occasions when I had live doubles or pick 3s when there was a major jockey change out of nowhere. Wouldn't that be as unfair? And what could we do about it? Should we cancel the bets because one of the horses went from the best jock at the track to the worst?

Worst thing that happened to me: At a bush track 20 years ago I had a ton of live doubles in my hand as I watched my 6-1 shot cross the finish line in first. 30 seconds later an announcement came that said "Ladies and Gentleman, due to a problem with the tote system we have lost all the daily double information. So we are cancelling the Double and all tickets will be refunded." The other wagers were paid out. My friend Pat and I were so upset. We were talking to the management, got nowhere. It had to be illegal. Almost caused me to quit the game..................almost!

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Figman
03-11-2002, 02:20 PM
Frank Stronach's Gulfstream Park is taking quite a "hit" this Winter. Thru yesterday the total handle is down $95.3 million as compared to last year.
Aqueduct is doing quite well considering the added competition of a third contemporaneous thoroughbred signal throughout NYS as of 1/15. The reduction in takeout (especially the multiple takeout reduction to 17.5% from 20% ) is the only explanation for the Aqueduct increase.

I think the best comparison is to total the handle and total the races....then get a "handle per race" figure. For Gulfstream and Aqueduct it looks like this:

2002 Aqu (thru Sun.3/10) 450 races with $416.1 million total all source comingled handle for an average per race handle of $924,752.

2001 Aqu (thru Sun.3/11) 471 races with $388.7 million total all source comingled handle for an average per race handle of $825,260.
************************************************** **************************************
2002 GP (thru Sun.3/10) 589 races with $463.5 million total all source comingled handle for an average per race handle of $786,974.

2001 GP (thru Sun.3/11) 615 races with $558.8 million total all source comingled handle for an average per race handle of $908,540.