Take me to an OTB that’s like it was 20 years ago.

[ZippyChippy423]

One that is busy all week long like it use to be. Do any still exist? Someone once told me the only place would be a race book in Las Vegas but they have sports betting mixed in so it’s not the same. The busiest OTB’s I have visited over the last 25 years have been: Atlantic City casinos, Mohegan Sun Casino Racebook, Plainridge Park Foxboro Mass, Bradley Teletrack Windsor Locks Ct, BestBet Jacksonville Florida, Manhattan OTB, Albany NY OTB. BTW all of these OTB’s remain open except for Manhattan ones. Attendance as you would expect is drastically down from 2 decades ago. Maybe somewhere in the country an OTB still thrives?

[Zman179]

One that is busy all week long like it use to be. Do any still exist? Someone once told me the only place would be a race book in Las Vegas but they have sports betting mixed in so it’s not the same. The busiest OTB’s I have visited over the last 25 years have been: Atlantic City casinos, Mohegan Sun Casino Racebook, Plainridge Park Foxboro Mass, Bradley Teletrack Windsor Locks Ct, BestBet Jacksonville Florida, Manhattan OTB, Albany NY OTB. BTW all of these OTB’s remain open except for Manhattan ones. Attendance as you would expect is drastically down from 2 decades ago. Maybe somewhere in the country an OTB still thrives?

The Meadowlands has always done very well with simulcasting, even before sports wagering began there.

[mountainman]

At mountaineer simulcast, we are reduced now to 12 or 15 smartest guys in the room, with about half that number of followers spread out among their infallible feudal lords. It's a dwindling, but fascinating colony to observe, as some of the infallible lords loudly berate their sycophants after hard beats.

One guy got barred for threatening a teller after getting shut out. And he has this deep, booming voice that makes the whole room shake.

When you play just one track, it sure enlivens the time between races.

I might just blog about that sub-culture

[AskinHaskin]

One that is busy all week long like it use to be. Do any still exist? Someone once told me the only place would be a race book in Las Vegas but they have sports betting mixed in so it’s not the same. The busiest OTB’s I have visited over the last 25 years have been: Atlantic City casinos, Mohegan Sun Casino Racebook, Plainridge Park Foxboro Mass, Bradley Teletrack Windsor Locks Ct, BestBet Jacksonville Florida, Manhattan OTB, Albany NY OTB. BTW all of these OTB’s remain open except for Manhattan ones. Attendance as you would expect is drastically down from 2 decades ago. Maybe somewhere in the country an OTB still thrives?

I wonder if the Potawatomi Casino in central Milwaukee merits a mention. Tiz the only OTB in a city of 600,000, centrally located, and in a place just 80 miles from Arlington Park (where otherwise-novices might have caught the bug). Now surely Saturday afternoons are more busy than Tuesday mornings, but it's pretty lively.

I've been to Windsor Locks, CT a couple of times, and it became a vacuum as soon as New York racing was over, even though it was just after 4pm, and California tracks had only just begun. I am certain Potawatomi is more consistently busy than that example.

[ZippyChippy423]

Sub-culture pretty much sums up the types of people you can find in any OTB across America. It’s funny how a lot of these people have the same mannerisms and lingo no matter what OTB you are in. Someone really should right a book...I find it very interesting. I once had a conversation with an OTB manager and he said most of the patrons were middle to upper class with a lot of discretionary income. He was talking about the degens that visit 7 days a week. I guess it makes sense...how can anyone go to the track that often unless they had a lot of money.

[Tom]

I remember OTBs around here.
No video, just the audio.
All the entries on poster boards on the wall.
Manager would come out and make scratched with a red pen, and mark results as the races finished.

We would hear that voice saying "The flag is up......" and everyone would gather in front of the wall of entries and watch them like a TV monitor.

My buddy and I would stand right at the wall and face the crown - some would get visibly shaken with us looking at them! :lol::lol:

[Zman179]

At mountaineer simulcast, we are reduced now to 12 or 15 smartest guys in the room, with about half that number of followers spread out among their infallible feudal lords. It's a dwindling, but fascinating colony to observe, as some of the infallible lords loudly berate their sycophants after hard beats.

One guy got barred for threatening a teller after getting shut out. And he has this deep, booming voice that makes the whole room shake.

When you play just one track, it sure enlivens the time between races.

I might just blog about that sub-culture

Reading the first paragraph, for a second I thought I was reading National Geographic. :pound:

[mountainman]

Reading the first paragraph, for a second I thought I was reading National Geographic. :pound:

But the women all have tops on.

[thaskalos]

But the women all have tops on.

Women, at a track simulcast center? I demand PROOF. :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

once betting from home became an option, what possible reason would exist for me to ever step foot into an OTB ever again?

[thaskalos]

once betting from home became an option, what possible reason would exist for me to ever step foot into an OTB ever again?

At the tracks and the OTBs, the winning horseplayers collect their profits anonymously...whereas the online winners leave behind a paper trail which must be dealt with at considerable expense...lest that lead to some sleepless nights.

[lex]

Women, at a track simulcast center? I demand PROOF. :eek:

I'm proof but I kept my top on.

[classhandicapper]

At the tracks and the OTBs, the winning horseplayers collect their profits anonymously...whereas the online winners leave behind a paper trail which must be dealt with at considerable expense.

Even if there was going to be a paper trail, there was always a 10 percenter available to make sure that paper trail did not include you. ;)

Personally, I miss neighborhood and restaurant OTBs (at least the handful of nice ones around Queens) In my old neighborhood I used to run into people I grew up with and sometimes didn't see in decades. It was nice.

Plus, even though the tracks might argue they recaptured that handle with phone accounts and now online betting, they are 100% wrong. A lot of those players went to OTB to socialize and bet. They weren't hardcore fans. If they were hardcore they already had an OTB phone account and didn't bother going to the OTB other than to make deposits and withdrawals like a bank branch. Yet many of those OTBs were stick packed and there were some big bettors going straight to the windows eating the surcharge.

Having a lot of them is not a viable business strategy, but I'm still pretty convinced that a handful around the city would raise handle and more than pay for themselves.

[thaskalos]

Even if there was going to be a paper trail, there was always a 10 percenter available to make sure that paper trail did not include you. ;)

Personally, I miss neighborhood and restaurant OTBs (at least the handful of nice ones around Queens) In my old neighborhood I used to run into people I grew up with and sometimes didn't see in decades. It was nice.

Plus, even though the tracks might argue they recaptured that handle with phone accounts and now online betting, they are 100% wrong. A lot of those players went to OTB to socialize and bet. They weren't hardcore fans. If they were hardcore they already had an OTB phone account and didn't bother going to the OTB other than to make deposits and withdrawals like a bank branch. Yet many of those OTBs were stick packed and there were some big bettors going straight to the windows eating the surcharge.

Having a lot of them is not a viable business strategy, but I'm still pretty convinced that a handful around the city would raise handle and more than pay for themselves.

I may be wrong about this...but my opinion is that the vast majority of the bettors wager a lot less online than they would if they were at a "live" betting outlet. When you bet online, you are limited to the funds that you hold in your ADW account...and my guess is that the vast majority of the bettors would much rather carry that money in their pockets.

[dlivery]

I may be wrong about this...but my opinion is that the vast majority of the bettors wager a lot less online than they would if they were at a "live" betting outlet. When you bet online, you are limited to the funds that you hold in your ADW account...and my guess is that the vast majority of the bettors would much rather carry that money in their pockets.

Or just in the back seat of the car:lol::lol:

[ElKabong]

Lone star park's simulcast pavilion

[onefast99]

Victory Bar at the Meadowlands and William Hill sports bar are packed with both horse players and sports wagering folk. Was in Victory Bar yesterday while it was pouring rain outside and people were out. Pace is right with the comment about people betting online from their own homes or workplace.

[SG4]

A lot of those players went to OTB to socialize and bet. They weren't hardcore fans. If they were hardcore they already had an OTB phone account and didn't bother going to the OTB other than to make deposits and withdrawals like a bank branch. Yet many of those OTBs were stick packed and there were some big bettors going straight to the windows eating the surcharge.


I never understood the mindset of these patrons for so many years. I'd go to the OTB to watch some races, but when there I'd take out my cell phone & call in my bets & get track prices, or in the early years always knew where the closest pay phone was. I'd see all the people there still pushing $ through the windows & getting stuck with surcharge payouts & I couldn't comprehend why any one of them would do that considering the ease in opening a phone account.

[ZippyChippy423]

I never understood the mindset of these patrons for so many years. I'd go to the OTB to watch some races, but when there I'd take out my cell phone & call in my bets & get track prices, or in the early years always knew where the closest pay phone was. I'd see all the people there still pushing $ through the windows & getting stuck with surcharge payouts & I couldn't comprehend why any one of them would do that considering the ease in opening a phone account.

It was already explained in an earlier post that most people did not want to leave a paper trail of betting. Some of the older guys I hung out with at the OTB even had secret bank accounts or stashes of money just for gambling . They did this to keep it from their wives.

[Zman179]

I may be wrong about this...but my opinion is that the vast majority of the bettors wager a lot less online than they would if they were at a "live" betting outlet. When you bet online, you are limited to the funds that you hold in your ADW account...and my guess is that the vast majority of the bettors would much rather carry that money in their pockets.

I would think it’s the opposite, because when you bet with cash you see the amounts dwindle or rise and your betting reflects that. Plus if you want to make additional bets, you have to get back on line again.

But with online betting the balance is just a number that goes up and down, and making an additional bet is as simple as a click of the mouse.

Kind of like the same mentality when you make a purchase with cash or credit/debit. One is more likely to spend more using a card, because you don’t actually see the money being spent. But if you see the money come straight out of your wallet, sometimes you’ll hold back on a certain purchase. I know I do, that’s why I prefer to carry cash. I spend less that way.

[River11]

once betting from home became an option, what possible reason would exist for me to ever step foot into an OTB ever again?

Exactly, I used to tell the manager of the Simalcast (Blue Grass Downs) the time is coming when we will no longer need you and it did and haven't been back since the early 90's.
Of course there are those who enjoy the audience, however small while screaming at a TV monitor.

[Afleet]

once betting from home became an option, what possible reason would exist for me to ever step foot into an OTB ever again?

no one tracking what you are doing, no paper trail?

I didnt see Thasks post

[SharpCat]

once betting from home became an option, what possible reason would exist for me to ever step foot into an OTB ever again?

No real good reason for me to step foot in Ellis Park ever again. I've been there maybe 3 times this year to see a friend. Why in the world would I drive 30 minutes, pay $11 for a form, $2.50 for a program and pay to much for bad food just to bet this?

https://i.imgur.com/stpof8Y.png

I can bet on TwinSpires from home, pay $60 a month for unlimited DRF programs, eat much better food that's cheaper and I can bet this. I can almost bet 24hrs everyday of the year except Christmas.

https://i.imgur.com/dlgSH0l.png?1 https://i.imgur.com/P4jQe1L.png?1

[classhandicapper]

I never understood the mindset of these patrons for so many years. I'd go to the OTB to watch some races, but when there I'd take out my cell phone & call in my bets & get track prices, or in the early years always knew where the closest pay phone was. I'd see all the people there still pushing $ through the windows & getting stuck with surcharge payouts & I couldn't comprehend why any one of them would do that considering the ease in opening a phone account.

In my experience, some of them were older and didn't even own a mobile phone. Others probably didn't want to have any money tied up in an account or any record of actually cashing big bets or IRS tickets. In some neighborhoods I think the cash they were betting was "ill gotten" if you know what I mean.

On the flip side, I knew a kid (in his early 20s) that used to play at several of the Queens OTBs regularly. He'd bet 1k-2k per race several times a day all in cash. One day he was complaining to me that all his horses were going off the favorite. I had to explain to him that when he bets those really small out of town tracks HE was making them the favorite. :rolleyes:

[Pigpen]

Lone star park's simulcast pavilion

I was last there in approx. 2000, is it still the same? I went on a Monday when Saratoga was running. I enjoyed it.

[mountainman]

In my experience, some of them were older and didn't even own a mobile phone. Others probably didn't want to have any money tied up in an account or any record of actually cashing big bets or IRS tickets. In some neighborhoods I think the cash they were betting was "ill gotten" if you know what I mean.

On the flip side, I knew a kid (in his early 20s) that used to play at several of the Queens OTBs regularly. He'd bet 1k-2k per race several times a day all in cash. One day he was complaining to me that all his horses were going off the favorite. I had to explain to him that when he bets those really small out of town tracks HE was making them the favorite. :rolleyes:

There was once a guy at simulcast, reputedly a baker, who would bet 3 or 4K on 1/9 cinches and wave winning tickets in people's faces. He would actually RUN from person to person squealing : "I'm so happy for meeeeeeeeee.... soooooooo happy for MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"

I heard somewhere that he met his demise falling into a huge oven. For real. I wonder if they did the fork test before pulling him out.

[Zman179]

There was once a guy at simulcast, reputedly a baker, who would bet 3 or 4K on 1/9 cinches and wave winning tickets in people's faces. He would actually RUN from person to person squealing : "I'm so happy for meeeeeeeeee.... soooooooo happy for MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"

I heard somewhere that he met his demise falling into a huge oven. For real. I wonder if they did the fork test before pulling him out.

Talk about a job well done. :pound:

[chiguy]

once betting from home became an option, what possible reason would exist for me to ever step foot into an OTB ever again?


I have tried the phone betting thing and to me it is just not a real race experience. Maybe because it is more of a hobby thing. I get no thrill from sitting at home and hitting an exacta. Hanging at the track or OTB with my friends is so much more of a good time. I also like to golf and I never understand those guys who set up a driving range in their garage.

[letswastemoney]

I'll probably never use an OTB again, but all OTBs should be free. I remember the one by Pleasanton racetrack in California charges $5 just to get in.

If I'm paying $5 to get inside a betting facility for horse racing, I better be watching some actual live horses too. It's not worth it without that.

[ElKabong]

I was last there in approx. 2000, is it still the same? I went on a Monday when Saratoga was running. I enjoyed it.

Very different. Some ways for the better.

Back then on Friday thru Sunday you had to pay to park (a line formed at 10am), stand in line to get in the pavilion. When the pavilion opened, stand in another line to pay for a carrel. You had to arrive early on those days to hope to get a carrel

Around 2002 or so they did away with parking fees

Now you get for free, carrels are still $3. The food is a lot better, not as much gouging. As nice as the place was, and still is, the original ownership did everything they could to piss off serious bettors and drive people away.

The current ownership is far better. Saturday's are still a packed house, but at least you can get a carrel any other day.

[metro]

Not 20 years ago but Churchill had a great simulcast venue about 10 years ago. Just up and off of the escalators in the main entrance. One very large open area with a food court, bars, rest rooms, etc. just a short walk away. TwinSpiresClub nearby if you wanted to cash in your rewards or get a personal carrel.

The carrels were awesome too. Could watch and wager all the tracks they carry right from your seat TVG, HRN, ball games or other non horse racing channels available too. Ability to watch race replays to assist with handicapping was another great feature. Heck, you could even order food and beverages from your carrel and have someone on staff deliver it to you. It was state of the art compared to what most tracks offered.

Of course they slowly did away with them and made their main simulcast area a more generic version you see at virtually ever track. No betting carrels, just your standard room with a couple dozen TVs (big screen and smaller) and a large seating area with self serve machines along the wall. I think they realized that the majority of their regulars really didn't care how they were treated as customers, and would show up regardless.

I would go there at least a couple days a week back then. Now I might go a couple of times a year.

[ultracapper]

I would think it’s the opposite, because when you bet with cash you see the amounts dwindle or rise and your betting reflects that. Plus if you want to make additional bets, you have to get back on line again.

But with online betting the balance is just a number that goes up and down, and making an additional bet is as simple as a click of the mouse.

Kind of like the same mentality when you make a purchase with cash or credit/debit. One is more likely to spend more using a card, because you don’t actually see the money being spent. But if you see the money come straight out of your wallet, sometimes you’ll hold back on a certain purchase. I know I do, that’s why I prefer to carry cash. I spend less that way.

Whether Thask is correct or you are, I can't say. But I know my experience is I can get mighty sloppy and loose with the online acct. The times that I used to go to the off track betting site I would go there to make a specific play or 2, and that was it.

[Zman179]

Whether Thask is correct or you are, I can't say. But I know my experience is I can get mighty sloppy and loose with the online acct. The times that I used to go to the off track betting site I would go there to make a specific play or 2, and that was it.

I won’t say that Thask is correct or I am, per se. However, it all is based on the mentality of the bettor in regards to the online balance. It’s one thing to see $96 physical dollars in your pocket and another to see: Balance: $96.00 on your online account. If the bettor can treat both scenarios in the same fashion, then he/she shouldn’t be greatly affected. But if the bettor treats the online balance as a virtual balance, then he/she is going to bet far more than if they were using cash. That is why casinos switched slot machines to paper payouts, but only if you hit the Cash Out button.

[classhandicapper]

There was once a guy at simulcast, reputedly a baker, who would bet 3 or 4K on 1/9 cinches and wave winning tickets in people's faces. He would actually RUN from person to person squealing : "I'm so happy for meeeeeeeeee.... soooooooo happy for MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"

I heard somewhere that he met his demise falling into a huge oven. For real. I wonder if they did the fork test before pulling him out.

My best OTB story comes from a place on Northern Blvd in Queens.

A guy came in and started betting 200-300 a race. He cashed a few bets and whenever he won he would start screaming "Shaffer City". Apparently Shaffer City was his favorite seafood restaurant in NY. So if he cashed, that meant he was going to Shaffer City for dinner.

All of a sudden he got on a roll. He was betting every race at every active track and cashing about 50% of his plays. Most were not favorites. He was winning many thousands of dollars. It got to the point where he didn't want to wait on line anymore. So he would tell people "I'll give you a free $20 bet on my horse if you'll let me cut the line". Of course they all said "yes". When he cashed, he was tipping the clerks $20 a pop and sometimes giving them a ticket . Halfway through the day, he was still rolling, but now the entire OTB was screaming "Shaffer City" during the stretch drives. It was crazy. I never saw anyone get this hot for one day and take a whole OTB with him.

Two sad notes.

1. I think I read they eventually closed Shaffer City (I never went there)

2. I saw him a month or two later at Main Street OTB and he was betting $2 a race.

[thaskalos]

My best OTB story comes from a place on Northern Blvd in Queens.

A guy came in and started betting 200-300 a race. He cashed a few bets and whenever he won he would start screaming "Shaefer City". Apparently Shaefer City was his favorite seafood restaurant in NY. So if he cashed, that meant he was going to Shaefer City for dinner.

All of a sudden he got on a roll. He was betting every race at every active track and cashing about 50% of his plays. Most were not favorites. He was winning many thousands of dollars. It got to the point where he didn't want to wait on line anymore. So he would tell people "I'll give you a free $20 bet on my horse if you'll let me cut the line". Of course they all said "yes". When he cashed, he was tipping the clerks $20 a pop and sometimes giving them a ticket . Halfway through the day, he was still rolling, but now the entire OTB was screaming "Shaefer City" during the stretch drives. It was crazy. I never saw anyone get this hot for one day and take a whole OTB with him.

Two sad notes.

1. I think they eventually closed Shaefer City (I never went there)

2. I saw him a month or two later at Main Street OTB and he was betting $2 a race.

Could it be that these two sad developments were related?

[classhandicapper]

Could it be that these two sad developments were related?

I'm not sure, but could be. :D

It was like one of those movies where someone gets hot at the craps table and everyone is betting on him.

[PaceAdvantage]

I have tried the phone betting thing and to me it is just not a real race experience. Maybe because it is more of a hobby thing. I get no thrill from sitting at home and hitting an exacta. Hanging at the track or OTB with my friends is so much more of a good time. I also like to golf and I never understand those guys who set up a driving range in their garage.Well, my post does say what reason would I have for ever stepping foot inside AN OTB...I didn't say racetrack...I still enjoy the track.