What’s up with Charles Town?

[takeout]

They just put a handful of millions into a redo of the track and now they’ve started with the cancellations again. ???

[Buddha]

this is pure speculation, but my guess would be that they redid the track, and from what I heard, it was basically just a widening of the track, and something probably isnt right with the track right now and the jocks or management deem it not safe to ride on. on equibase the reasons for cancellation is Track Conditions

[sq764]

I thought they cancelled due to the hurricane rains..

[takeout]

Buddha,
That would be my guess too. I see they’ve closed yet again. That’s 3 in a row. I guess the forecast of heavy rain is scaring them now. Wouldn’t surprise me now if they stayed closed through the weekend.

sq764,
I think the track was dry the first two days they cancelled. ??

[sq764]

Ahh, I only knew they cancelled last night.. I was in AC and they said that's why they cancelled.. Had no idea that was the 3rd time..

[takeout]

I see they’ve changed the message on their site from “weather permitting” to “cancelled until further notice.”

[takeout]

Work Continues on Charles Town Racing Surface
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=24418

[takeout]

Jim Buchanan, senior vice president of public relations at the track said that all the repairs have been completed. "Everything seems to be fine," Buchanan said, "we're actually getting hit right now by (hurricane) Gene and the drainage system is working very well."
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=24523

Don't know why but they are still not using the 4&1/2 chute and are running those races at 4f instead.

[sq764]

Wow, they really said 'Gene'??? Isn't it Jean?

[takeout]

Beats me. I just copied and pasted. :D

[takeout]

You made me curious. Turns out it’s Jeanne. :)

[sjk]

7 furlongs is still a 2 turn race? I thought the track was going to be bigger.

[BillW]

Originally posted by sjk
7 furlongs is still a 2 turn race? I thought the track was going to be bigger.

sjk,

same size (except apparently chute @ 4f :D)

[Hosshead]

I would gladly trade changes to the CT track in exchange for getting a new ML Oddsmaker !!!

[takeout]

Originally posted by BillW
sjk,

same size (except apparently chute @ 4f :D)
Yeah, not only did they not make it bigger… they shrunk it! :D

I kept reading that they were going to make it bigger but it never happened. They must’ve forgotten to tell the press that they changed their minds.

They cancelled again last night after only 4 races but they worked out on it that morning. Go figure. I’m wondering how long they can keep this up before they have to shut down the precious slot side? They’re already running 12-race cards now to make up for all of the previous cancellations. At this rate it won’t be long before they’ll be running more races than a dog track.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Hosshead
I would gladly trade changes to the CT track in exchange for getting a new ML Oddsmaker !!!

not me........ I like it when the ML is off.............I think that gives me an edge

[BillW]

Originally posted by JustRalph
not me........ I like it when the ML is off.............I think that gives me an edge

I was thinking same thing. I need all the help I can't get. :D

Bill the contrarian

[cj]

Originally posted by Hosshead
I would gladly trade changes to the CT track in exchange for getting a new ML Oddsmaker !!!

Hey, watch it now! Costy is DA MAN!

[cj]

Originally posted by takeout
... They’re already running 12-race cards now to make up for all of the previous cancellations. At this rate it won’t be long before they’ll be running more races than a dog track.

...and still filling the starting gate nearly every race!

[takeout]

Cancelled again. :rolleyes:

[takeout]

Originally posted by cj
...and still filling the starting gate nearly every race!
I think they ought to widen the track, use a gate that holds 14 and go back to 9 races a day.:D

Costy IS ‘DA MAN’ but I have never quite figured out his ML. Seems like some combo of a ML and betting line.??

[takeout]

... and CT is closed again. Through 10/7 this time. :rolleyes:

[takeout]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=24583
[snip]
The Charles Town Horsemen's Benevolent and Protective Association has hired former Maryland Jockey Club track superintendent John Passero to be its consultant on the project. Passero, who is recognized as one of the best track superintendents in the country, is assisting PNGI on the project but is meeting with resistance, according to individuals close to the situation.
[snip]

Unbelievable! I'm not even sure what theyre talking about. I mean, you either hire the guy or you don't. What's this resistance crap? From who? If I didn't know better I would think that Joe DeFrancis was running that place. Gawd!

[CryingForTheHorses]

I was at Gulfstream yesterday, Looks worse then better, Am thinking maybe the same thing may happen there this winter as maybe the track wont be settled in time for the races,The backside is a war zone with the whole 1/4 mile chute removed and another being built,Still need a lot of work, Hope everything is on shedule.

[Zaf]

Maybe they should race at Hialeah.

ZAFONIC

[takeout]

Hialeah Close to 'Death Knell' After Ruling
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=24600

[takeout]

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=49538&subsec=1
[snip]
Wayne Harrision, acting president of the West Virginia Horsemen’s Benevolent and Protective Association, said his organization was told by Dickey Moore, who oversees racing operations at Charles Town, on Tuesday that the horsemen would no longer be allowed to continue using former Maryland Jockey Club superintendent John Passero as a consultant on the project.

Harrison believes that parent company Penn National Gaming Inc. removed Passero from the project because he and the track owners had a difference of opinion on how to proceed with the work.
[snip]

Well, now I know what’s up with CT. :rolleyes:

[takeout]

I just read that Penn Gaming had over a billion in revenues last year.

And they can’t do CT’s surface properly? That’s sad.

[mjdevita]

They are back running tonight 10/08.


Our partnership is located at Charles Town...always looking for additional partners.

[PaceAdvantage]

oh brother......:rolleyes:

[mjdevita]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
oh brother......:rolleyes:

I will provide BETTER quality posts in the future..


I am new at the forum..I am just learning the standards of Pace Advantage which is the best horse racing forum that I have found. :)

[sq764]

Well you have made 10 posts so far, 9 of them are for your partnership.. A good start in providing quality posts might be to participate in some threads without advertising your partnerships.. Just a thought..

[Zaf]

Don't worry SQ, Quality Posts are on the horizon.

ZAFONIC

[mjdevita]

Originally posted by sq764
Well you have made 10 posts so far, 9 of them are for your partnership.. A good start in providing quality posts might be to participate in some threads without advertising your partnerships.. Just a thought..

I agree...I now know the rules and will abide.

I think this forum is very informative with many knowldegable people.

Thanks for your patience...

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
I was at Gulfstream yesterday, Looks worse then better, Am thinking maybe the same thing may happen there this winter as maybe the track wont be settled in time for the races,The backside is a war zone with the whole 1/4 mile chute removed and another being built,Still need a lot of work, Hope everything is on shedule.

Gulfstream construction worker killed yesterday..crushed with a forklift..another worker killed in a sewer not far from the track..Was there yesterday...still looks in sad shape, Poor workers are under the gun for the Nov 8 stable opening. Turf course looks wonderful

[WILD MONEY]

Right from the horses mouth.

I galloped a horse around CT track this morning and the track is fine. It is raining today . If it holds up and I am sure it will racing will continue.

CT is a 6F track. Not 7F. They are going to add a chute
at the 1/8 pole to make extra F.

Turns are now banked. Way back when a well was capped and the recent new race track construction uncapped this old well and water got into the track. Problem is solved.

The penn national people are as slick as they come and if a problem develops they will be on it.

Nice to see such interest in CT . I could remember when we were a joke and now we have some of the highest purses in the country for the class of horse.

Costy's picks are right on the money percentage wise. Use him as a guide and you will make money.

[BillW]

WILD MONEY,

Any idea when they are going to return to the back of the 4 1/2 f chute?
I surely could have used that extra 1/2f in Wed. nites 11th. :mad:

Bill

[BillW]

WILD MONEY,

The 12th tonite brings up another question. Does CT have any rules for listed works before a start? The winner in this one last started 75 days ago and no intervening works were listed.

Bill

[Buddha]

I know at MNR any horse that hasnt raced in 60 days must have a work on paper, or an approved or something work that is broadcast on the loud speaker.

[takeout]

It’s the same at CT. They announced a work for that horse at the track.

BillW, you must’ve had that l-o-n-g shot that finished 2nd to the Gill horse in that race. Bummer.

Gill had two break down tonight. I think they were both put down. There was a time when “humanely destroyed” was put in the result charts but now it just says “fell” or “pulled up” and there is no way of knowing how/if the horse came out of it. I can’t believe Equibase doesn’t put this information in their charts.

I saw something unusual in the CT PPs tonight. The 9-horse in the 3rd race, Junior Ruler, showed a win in his last start and he was running in a maiden race tonight. Huh? He went off at 6-5 in his last race and there was no sign of a DQ. I use the TSN PPs so I checked with a guy who had a DRF and it was the same way in there. Then I check the track program and they don’t have that race. Turns out it was not sanctioned, or some such, so... how did it slip through into everyone’s PPs except the track’s? The track was Sdy, wherever that is.

PS: I noticed DRF still has A Huevo as holding the track record for 9 furlongs. :D

[JimG]

Originally posted by WILD MONEY
Way back when a well was capped and the recent new race track construction uncapped this old well and water got into the track. Problem is solved.



Maybe that was in the presses, but I missed it. Thanks for the information.

Jim

[takeout]

Well, it’s back to the original question of what’s up with Charles Town?

The jocks refused to ride today on a wet track. (???) So much for the “rebuild” and the supposed millions that were spent. I heard they were thinking of running 6 days a week to make up for all of the time that they’ve already lost. Hell, they can’t even get a 5-day week in if the track gets wet. And the serious weather isn’t even here yet. The place will probably be closed half of the winter.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by takeout
Well, it’s back to the original question of what’s up with Charles Town?

The jocks refused to ride today on a wet track. (???) So much for the “rebuild” and the supposed millions that were spent. I heard they were thinking of running 6 days a week to make up for all of the time that they’ve already lost. Hell, they can’t even get a 5-day week in if the track gets wet. And the serious weather isn’t even here yet. The place will probably be closed half of the winter.

This could become even a bigger problem for them people up there,When you resurface a race track, All the dirt is taken away and the bottom of the track is then exposed, Showing you the rutts and holes, The problem I sure lies here where they dug into the bottom and it isnt settled..It has to be rock hard in order for the dirt to sit level and give the horses a level to run on rather then a plowed field like they are getting. This problem will not go away and the weather is going to get worse. The more water and no bottom will only make them jocks very hungry as It will be to dangerous to ride or even train on. Im sure parts of the track are solid then you hit deep stuff..I dont blame the jocks...

[takeout]

CT obviously has some big problems up there that they don’t know how to, can’t, or won’t deal with. All of that money that they’ve got up there now and they can’t make a track that jocks won’t refuse to ride on. Ridiculous. It boggles the mind that the powers that be at Penn Gaming can’t get a decent “road” built that’s only ¾ of a mile long.

[WILD MONEY]

It is getting under control. Track is fine. Jockeys are making too much money.

[jotb]

Originally posted by WILD MONEY
It is getting under control. Track is fine. Jockeys are making too much money.

Where do you get your information from Wild Money? The track should have been closed down the other night after the 10th race. The track had too many dry spots and too many wet spots which is a concern for the rider's. Since you gallop at CT, you should be fully aware of what's been happening.

[WILD MONEY]

9 Jockeys were ready to ride Sunday. The best rider in the place was willing to ride. Travis.

It gets a little hairy when it rains no matter where you ride.

My namesake , wild money , was in Sunday and he was ready to romp so perhaps our disappointment clouds our judgement.

This track is safe for riders and horses. It is a different breed riding today. Go back 15 years and take the vote the riders took Sunday and and 90% of the riders would have chosen to ride.

Of course none of them was making $15,000 per week.

[Dancer's Image]

I am fascinated by this discussion; let me admit at the outset that I am just a player and I don't claim to have any expertise about whether the track should race or not race. I am listening to McSchell (whom I trust as a trainer and backstretch insider) and jotb, who both believe the track should be closed whenever the jockeys don't want to race, ie. whenever it rains. And I am listening to Wild Money, who says he gallops over the track and believes it is safe.

Like I say, I don't have any special qualifications to make the determination of when Charlestown should race and when they shouldn't. Of course I wouldn't want the jockeys to race on an unsafe surface; (and on the safest of racetracks, I've also seen catastrophic injuries to horse and jockey, it's just the nature of the game); but the safeness of any racing surface is so subjective that it seems impossible to have any objective criteria. I mean I've seen them race in so much rain and mud at some tracks and conversely it seems they cancel whenever it rains at some places. But I think it would be prudent for racing in general to try to have some sort of objective criteria for when to cancel racing due to inclement weather.

From Wild Money's last post, it seems that the current system is for the jockeys to vote and a majority determines whether they race or not. That does not seem like the best system to me(and of course, I'm not surprised, after all this is horseracing where it seems everything is done to the overall detriment of the sport). Take for instance the situation at Charlestown on Sunday when 9 jockeys voted to ride. What if they raced with those 9 jockeys? Of course the union would never allow that, but if they were allowed to race with the 9 willing jockeys, I'm sure some of the unwilling jockeys would then return to ride. It seems like someone has to be responsible for determining if the track is safe to race upon or not...and then the jockeys can either ride or not ride. But the track is not really concerned about racing anyway; racing is just a necessary evil to tolerate for the privilege of having their slot machines.

[takeout]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
But the track is not really concerned about racing anyway; racing is just a necessary evil to tolerate for the privilege of having their slot machines.
That’s so true and I can’t help but wonder how indifferent to racing that the big tracks will become once they get slots and have had them for awhile.

[mjdevita]

Originally posted by takeout
That’s so true and I can’t help but wonder how indifferent to racing that the big tracks will become once they get slots and have had them for awhile.

Of course, I hate to rely on government to do the policing but it will be up to the State Commissions or Departments that oversee the slots along with local State Racing & Wager Commission to insure that the horsemen are being taken care of properly.

On the flip side, if the horsemen don't do the "right" thing and put on a good show along with integrity, the powers to be will find a new way to spend the millions of $$ that the horseman currently get.

[WILD MONEY]

The races are off and running tonight. Wednesday , Oct 27th.

Track in good condition.

Keep in mind that management spent $7,000,000 to redo the track not to mention the millions spent on the backside building new barns and roads so there is a commitment to racing. They just need a little more close attention paid to what is going on here. The politics of the place haven't changed at all in spite of all that has happened.

Keep tuned to the handicapping slection page thread as the wild one may hear from another $28 horse as he did last Friday evening.