validator 3

[topgun]

I am looking for a copy of this program,any one out there with a copy that may not be using it.Please let let know!

Topgun

[thelyingthief]

ive got it. maybe i could email it to you?

tlt

[First_Place]

I have it too. Except I don't have a user's manual (does one exist?). Not much use if one doesn't have an idea of what the various indicators (for lack of a better term) are supposed to measure, as well as the theory behind them. And let me tell you, there are plenty of them!

My knowledge of the Sartin Methodology is limited to what is presented in Tom Brohamer's Modern Pace Handicapping and Dick Schmidt's and Tom Hambleton's book Pace Makes The Race. According to what I've read both have gone the way of the dinosaur, at least according to Doc Sartin.

I think this is one shortcoming of Sartin's Methodology, i.e., it's very elusive and arcane. I understand Doc did not cater to the masses but this is ridiculous. From what I've concluded, if you weren't in it from the start (at least post-Phase III) and didn't attend the ongoing seminars and subscribe to the bi-monthly Follow Ups you don't have much chance of ever learning it (on your own) outside of perhaps a knowledgeable friend or mentor who can take you by the hand and teach it to you.

Am I right?

FP

[shanta]

Originally posted by First_Place
I have it too. Except I don't have a user's manual (does one exist?). Not much use if one doesn't have an idea of what the various indicators (for lack of a better term) are supposed to measure, as well as the theory behind them. And let me tell you, there are plenty of them!

My knowledge of the Sartin Methodology is limited to what is presented in Tom Brohamer's Modern Pace Handicapping and Dick Schmidt's and Tom Hambleton's book Pace Makes The Race. According to what I've read both have gone the way of the dinosaur, at least according to Doc Sartin.

I think this is one shortcoming of Sartin's Methodology, i.e., it's very elusive and arcane. I understand Doc did not cater to the masses but this is ridiculous. From what I've concluded, if you weren't in it from the start (at least post-Phase III) and didn't attend the ongoing seminars and subscribe to the bi-monthly Follow Ups you don't have much chance of ever learning it (on your own) outside of perhaps a knowledgeable friend or mentor who can take you by the hand and teach it to you.

Am I right?

FP


I would suggest anyone who wants to learn about the use of any advanced methodology programs check out "Binder's" website:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/VDCMessengerService/

He has made followup's available online as well as audio and visual help to members. He also helps whomever he can and gives of his time freely.


The people who taught at those long ago seminars were dealing with racing in the late 80"s and early 90's. racing in 2004 is a very different animal and is probably why most if not all of those teachers are now playing golf or playin the markets. Their "edge" is gone. Foot per second readouts, track models, profiles etc. Once they were in the hands of only a few. Now the "masses" have access to all of that info as well.

Richie

[socantra]

Originally posted by First_Place
I have it too. Except I don't have a user's manual (does one exist?). Not much use if one doesn't have an idea of what the various indicators (for lack of a better term) are supposed to measure, as well as the theory behind them. And let me tell you, there are plenty of them!

My knowledge of the Sartin Methodology is limited to what is presented in Tom Brohamer's Modern Pace Handicapping and Dick Schmidt's and Tom Hambleton's book Pace Makes The Race. According to what I've read both have gone the way of the dinosaur, at least according to Doc Sartin.

FP

The methodology has not been an ongoing commercial entity for several years now. I think expecting really good support at this point is a bit much. If you are really familiar with Brohammers book, you can understand a great deal of it, even though it has changed a great deal. Doc Sartin had a pretty intensive support structure while he was operating. I'm not sure how much you can blame him for lack of support now that he's left the business. He's not really recruiting new members.

To the Brohammer figures, he added some chaos math, energy consumption, deceleration and other features, but the Phase I readouts are still there. Pace makes the Race can help, although Hambleton & Schmidt left the Sartin and Pizzola contributions out of their later edition.

Binder's group (mentioned by shanta) is a great help, and probably the best current source of information available. It is a non commercial site, and he does it for the love of Doc Sartin and the methodology. There's also a Yahoo group called SartinAlums that has some coverage of a program called Speculator, which is done by Guy Wadsworth, Doc Sartin's last programmer. Unfortunately, it's also meant for those already familiar with the methodology, and offers little help to the beginner.

If you are going to go in for things that are hard to learn, somewhat esoteric, contrarian, and no longer in current circulation, you have to expect some difficulties.

socantra...

[First_Place]

I see. In your view, what state of the art commercially available methodology/software most closely mirrors Sartin's complex way (e.g., measuring acceleration vs deceleration, etc.) of analyzing horse races?

FP

[Binder]

Hi Shanta and Socantra
Thanks for the nice words
It great members like you guys that make it work
The group means a lot to me
I hope to continue to make it better
:)

[socantra]

Originally posted by First_Place
I see. In your view, what state of the art commercially available methodology/software most closely mirrors Sartin's complex way (e.g., measuring acceleration vs deceleration, etc.) of analyzing horse races?

FP

I'm afraid none I know of. That's why I'm still using Validator.
It sounds like HTR measures many of the same things, but in different ways. I've never used it but I've heard good things about it, and Ken Massa was the programmer for Brohammer on MPH. It certainly is well documented. There's a ton of material on his website.

I'm intrigued by Rubin Boxer's Computrak 2005, but he doesn't seem to use the individual fractions, and I'm so committed to that I'm not sure I could visualize a race without it. His version of deceleration is called friction and his paper on Engineering Concepts in Racing is worth a read.

Validator is hard to learn. I'm still discovering things about it almost daily, but I suppose any good software is like that if you really get into it. Validator is also old DOS software, and kind of clunky. It lacks many of the refinements of newer windows software. The whole thing still goes on a single floppy.

You seem very familiar with Pizzola. he's ex-Sartin. The Doc spun off in some new directions after the breakup, but most of the fundamentals are still there from Phase I.

Binder's now got the manual for Validator 2 up. He also had the audio in mp3. It's basically going over a few races with the Doc and Guy Wadsworth, I believe. Hardly comprehensive. Sartin always considered The Followup to be his documentation, and even that was pretty cryptic most of the time.

Good Luck,
Socantra