TSN versus DRF Formulator Files

[cj]

I originally wrote all my homemade stuff to use DRF Formulator files because I was used to DRF, and like it the best.

I have begun trying to modify things to also use TSN or BRIS files if needed. I have to say, these files (one file, by the way) are a DREAM compared to working with the DRF files (7 files!) Anyone had similiar experiences?

I'm sure I'll still use primarily DRF because its what I'm used to seeing and I like the data not in the TSN/BRIS files, but I sure wish DRF would change their files to be similiar.

[midnight]

You're right about DRF files being hard to work with.

My homegrown longshot program works with BRIS or TSN and I have a module for Trackmaster, although I don't download those currently. I gave up on figuring out Formulator after a few hours. Way too much trouble.


Does ANY well-known software program out there work with DRF Formulator files? I can't think of any offhand.

[Speed Figure]

Fast Fred takes DRF Formulator.

[masterpeg]

For those of you who keep saying "home grown programs"....how are you creating your own programs. What are you using/how do you do it and how can I learn to do it. This was one of my goals (to create my own program), however simple, but I haven't the faintest idea how to start.

[BillW]

Originally posted by masterpeg
For those of you who keep saying "home grown programs"....how are you creating your own programs. What are you using/how do you do it and how can I learn to do it. This was one of my goals (to create my own program), however simple, but I haven't the faintest idea how to start.

masterpeg,

You'll have to be a bit more specific. Do you have any programming experience? If so what languages/environments?

Bill

[masterpeg]

No experience writing programs....but was going to invest some time in learning C+ once. The thing is, I don't want a phd in it, I just want to learn enough to write a simple program for horseracing. I am not informed enough to know if this is possible. If I had some information such as what program to use in writing, one thats the most efficient (easiest learning curve) I would buy the materials and give it a go. I am one who will put the time in....after all, I taught myself Adobe premiere and After Effects...enough to land a job teaching it to others. I am not sure how much more difficult what your doing is....that is why I ask?

[BillW]

Originally posted by masterpeg
No experience writing programs....but was going to invest some time in learning C+ once. The thing is, I don't want a phd in it, I just want to learn enough to write a simple program for horseracing. I am not informed enough to know if this is possible. If I had some information such as what program to use in writing, one thats the most efficient (easiest learning curve) I would buy the materials and give it a go. I am one who will put the time in....after all, I taught myself Adobe premiere and After Effects...enough to land a job teaching it to others. I am not sure how much more difficult what your doing is....that is why I ask?

C++ is a rather complex language (probably the most complex available today) and I would not recommend it for a beginner. Probably the best approach would be to specifically ask for input from the self taught guys on the site and have them relate their experiences and recommendations.

As far as handicapping goes, you must have a goal. What is it you want to do with your handicapping program? It's not enough to say "I want to write a handicapping program". A handicapping program can be anything from a small utility to help calculating an odds line to a 10 year effort you see in some of the commercial products available. The extent in which you want to get into it will impact the language/environment you will want to use.

Best of luck,

Bill

[masterpeg]

basically, I just want a program that I can use to make my calculations for me. This would require simple mathematical calculations to find Brohammers pace numbers...calculations I currently do with excell, but I would like to be able to imput pacelines from Formulator or other importable files.

Nothing to extravagant by my perception anyway.

[BillW]

Originally posted by masterpeg
basically, I just want a program that I can use to make my calculations for me. This would require simple mathematical calculations to find Brohammers pace numbers...calculations I currently do with excell, but I would like to be able to imput pacelines from Formulator or other importable files.

Nothing to extravagant by my perception anyway.

masterpeg,

With that description you should be able to find at least a few guys that will be able to help. What you want is certainly doable by someone that is just starting out. I know there are at least a few guys working with Excel/Access/Visual Basic etc. that is probably appropriate for that kind of work. Maybe start your own thread if you don't get any bites here.

Good Luck,

Bill

[NoDayJob]

Originally posted by masterpeg
basically, I just want a program that I can use to make my calculations for me. This would require simple mathematical calculations to find Brohammers pace numbers...calculations I currently do with excell, but I would like to be able to imput pacelines from Formulator or other importable files.

Nothing to extravagant by my perception anyway.

If you intend to learn how to program pick a language that can be debugged without having to compile it each time, such as Visual Basic, XBasic, XBasicLite, Python or RealBasic. "C" and "C++" are great if you plan to do commercial applications. RealBasic is good if you use an "Apple confuser". XBasic is not a true Windows language, however it will operate on most systems. It's almost as fast as "C" and there is an application which allows you to translate directly to "C" without having to write in "C". X-Basic is "free-ware" with lots of I-NET user group support. I'm sure there are others that will disagree with me but that's what makes this business so interesting and rewarding.

NDJ

[Jeff P]

No experience writing programs....but was going to invest some time in learning C+ once. The thing is, I don't want a phd in it, I just want to learn enough to write a simple program for horseracing. I am not informed enough to know if this is possible. If I had some information such as what program to use in writing, one thats the most efficient (easiest learning curve) I would buy the materials and give it a go. I am one who will put the time in....after all, I taught myself Adobe premiere and After Effects...enough to land a job teaching it to others. I am not sure how much more difficult what your doing is....that is why I ask?

I'd recommend Visual Basic over C or C++. Shorter learning curve and easier for most human minds to digest. That's the path I chose back in the mid 1980's. I started out with a product Microsoft had called Quick Basic. That was back in the days before Visual Basic even existed. When Visual Basic was introduced I found that much of my Quick Basic code also worked in Visual Basic and the stuff that didn't work could be made to work after some debugging and converting.

But don't expect this, or any other programming project, to be a simple thing. I can tell you first hand that the path you are considering is a long one. It's a road few end up taking. But don't let me discourage you either. For me, I've enjoyed the journey on the road less travelled immensely.

When I first started out, like you, I knew absolutely nothing about programming. I have an accounting degree and was working as an accountant. In college, I think I had one programming class and that was in COBOL. And I couldn't tell you today anything about COBOL other than how to spell it. I simply hated the line of work I was in. We were always up to our necks in paper. The office was an absolute zoo. The phones rang constantly, and our clients, although they were paying us to perform audits, always hated it whenever we discovered anything wrong.

For whatever reason, while writing code for my own handicapping project, after about two years, the how and why and best practices of writing code somehow just began to click for me. I realized then that companies were paying good money for programmers and made a career change. Through personal contacts I was lucky enough to get hired on as a junior programmer by one of our clients- even though my only programming experience was my own pet handicapping project.

That was ten years ago. In addition to the personal satisfaction I've gotten from working on a lifetime handicapping project, and the money won, that project has opened up a lot of doors for me. Since then I've been hired on a contract basis to code out projects for companies like American Express, Trammell Crowe, ST Microelectronics, Experian, and Verizon Wireless. Sometimes the road you're on leads to places you can't even imagine.

[masterpeg]

Wow, very inspirational...I don't have any plans to make it a career change as you did, but you never know. I love learning new things and never give up until I have reached my goal. I will ponder the mountain I am about to climb before venturing up it. And I won't be setting any goals Im not willing to go all out for. I just needed some advice as too which mountain to scope out first.

so keep the ideas coming so I have some different avenues and experiences to choose from. And along with them please list some text materials I will need so I can start hitting the library.

[cj]

Does anyone have a reliable conversion from BRIS speed figures to TSN speed figures. I know the TSN are generally a little lower on average, but how much?

[Speed Figure]

The 2nd and final call figures are about 4-7 pts lower on avg.

[Brian Flewwelling]

Originally posted by masterpeg
Wow, very inspirational...I don't have any plans to make it a career change as you did, but you never know. I love learning new things and never give up until I have reached my goal. I will ponder the mountain I am about to climb before venturing up it. And I won't be setting any goals Im not willing to go all out for. I just needed some advice as too which mountain to scope out first.

so keep the ideas coming so I have some different avenues and experiences to choose from. And along with them please list some text materials I will need so I can start hitting the library.

I agree with JeffP's recomendations.

You wil be working with downloaded data, and storing that data in your own files. That means VB and data files, which will likely be Access files (you don't need Access to created Access files in VB). Access has VB built in (a form of it, at least) and it is easier to work with data in the Access environment, than in VB alone.

So i recommend giving consideration to starting in Access and learning coding as it comes along.

Re Library: INTERNET, and GOOGLE!! and the help files in the programs.

good luck and have fun

Brian

[masterpeg]

So, just to be sure I have this....you're saying I should go out and get a book or two on Access (which I have the program but know little about)? Will Access be able to do what I want to do or is this just a stepping stone to VB? I realize Im talking from no vantage point here being so illiterate in this area of computers and I don't expect you to teach me anything here, but I want to be sure my path is set first and I was a little confused by you saying you agreed with Jeff when Jeff never mentioned Access. For some reason Access seams less intimidating to me though so If it will be to my advantage I like the idea.

IF Access is what I need to learn and if you have a recommendation to a book that would get me started please let me know.

[sjk]

I've been able to do anything I set out to do using Access. It is certainly not the only way to get there but it can get the job done.

It has been 11 years since I got started with it. Back then Access actually came with documentation in book form. I don't know which of the current books would be best but I would get a thick one since you will probably need to get to know Access pretty well as time goes by.

[masterpeg]

and I will be able to import drf formulator 4 files (comma delimminated?) into access and manipulate numbers? If you say yes then im excited will set out to the library tomorrow.

[sjk]

I have never looked at Formulator; I'm sure someone who has can give you a definite answer.

You can import comma-delimited files along with many other formats.

Since you have the program, try the file/get external data/import menu item and see what you can do.

[masterpeg]

How do you use access

[Tom]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Does anyone have a reliable conversion from BRIS speed figures to TSN speed figures. I know the TSN are generally a little lower on average, but how much?

CJ,
Someone posted a formula they came up with for comverting TSN to BRIS and vice versa. I copied it down someplace-will look for it. But I am sure it was here somewhere this year.

[masterpeg]

"how do you use access"

not meant to read, teach me...lol
just wondering how you use it in your handicapping? What type of files to you buy and import if you do....what type of functions do you get out of it?

[Tom]

Originally posted by cjmilkowski
Does anyone have a reliable conversion from BRIS speed figures to TSN speed figures. I know the TSN are generally a little lower on average, but how much?

Found it.....

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=134894#post134894

[cj]

Thanks Tom,

I knew it was here somewhere, but I just couldn't find it!

I may have to leave this forum soon. You know the old saying, "Nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded!" :D

[sjk]

Masterpeg,

You asked how I use Access.

Like some of the other board members I started many years ago (1993) to accumulate a database of race data and to analyze the data as an aid to handicapping. Over a period of several years my program went from a handicapping aid to a black box program which is how I have used it for the last 7 years or so.

There are a number of different data sources that people on the board have used to accumulate data which you could then analyze in Access. You can do a search to find some of those threads.

I would say that you can get Access to do whatever you want it to do but for the more sophisticated applications you will probably have to invest a very significant amount of time (years?).

Like JeffP I have found that the programming skills acquired in developing a racing program have been very useful in my work.

[cj]

The problem with Access in my opinion is the limitations on generating decent looking output files or reports.

[cj]

I should say, with using ONLY Access.

[Brian Flewwelling]

Originally posted by masterpeg
and I will be able to import drf formulator 4 files (comma delimminated?) into access and manipulate numbers? If you say yes then im excited will set out to the library tomorrow.

Yes, you can import any comma-deliminated data into access. You need to know the meaning of the fields that are deliminated of course.

Access has as its role, to store and analyze Data. It has tools like queries, forms and reports that allow you to access the data in ways you define. Queries also allow you to change the data, like calculate new numbers from the ones that are there. (eg Speeds from Times ... but you supply all the rules :))

When the query tools get too cumbersome you can move to VB-modules to do your bidding. ... Just a note: Avoid Macros completely, don't even let them enter your mind!

In a few years, you may want to wander past the capabilities of Access, but what you learn in the mean time will stand you in good stead then.


Brian

[sjk]

The macros work find for me.

In fact I would say that queries without macros are fairly worthless. Once a calculation reaches a certain degree of complexity you have to break it up into pieces to get it to run and a macro allows you to do this. If you try to load it all into a single query it will not run.

[Brian Flewwelling]

Originally posted by sjk
The macros work find for me.

In fact I would say that queries without macros are fairly worthless. Once a calculation reaches a certain degree of complexity you have to break it up into pieces to get it to run and a macro allows you to do this. If you try to load it all into a single query it will not run.


Use functions created in Modules... Macros confuse the issue by being limited and then you have both Mods and Macros, and get lost



Brian

[sjk]

Brian,

Too late for me; already have everything done with macros. Probably because the Access users guide I mentioned several posts ago covered macros but I would have had to refer to a different manual to learn about modules.

I found the macros to be very intuitive and easy to use whereas the modules are much more a programming language which would have taken more time to master. I have never felt limited in any way with the macros; have always found a way to do whatever I needed to get done.

[TriSuper]

Very interesting thread.

Was wondering what might be involved in trying to take the result charts found on NYRA's site (HTML format) and convert this into a comma delimited file that could be imported into Excel or Access.

Wednesday charts for example (http://www1.nyra.com/chart/fullchart.asp?track=B)

Thanks.

Trisuper

[BillW]

Originally posted by TriSuper
Very interesting thread.

Was wondering what might be involved in trying to take the result charts found on NYRA's site (HTML format) and convert this into a comma delimited file that could be imported into Excel or Access.

Wednesday charts for example (http://www1.nyra.com/chart/fullchart.asp?track=B)

Thanks.

Trisuper

Wait till Game Theory answers this thread or send him a PM with the same question. He has a program that you can use.

Bill

[Brian Flewwelling]

sjk

Access is a toolbox with multiple tools ... some would say that the knives are all too dull ... but i have found most of the solutions i wanted in there.

On the Macros question: programming languages were being discussed and i suggested Access for its modules. Macros are easy to start, but if you use them, then go onto VB you may find you have confusion later, like 'what the hell did i do there?'

if VB is in the plans, skip the easy step to macros.

Brian

[Larry Hamilton]

Apparently, I am in a similary situation as sjk. I use macros to take the results of queries and put it in tables. Then I run tables back into queries using SQL. These endless circles are held together with macros. Also, I have two situations that require the use of macros to use them.

Infotran, a free "module" from BRIS and TSN run by hand is TEDIOUS. I use a macro to run it thru the days cards and results sheets.

Unzipping is another TEDIOUS task done by hand. My macros take care of it.

On several occasions in the past, I have switched back and forth from VB to Access. The macros work just fine no matter which application you run them from. FOr those of you who do not know how to run an Access Macro from Visual Basic. About 20 lines of code including dim's does the trick.

Contrary to a comment I noticed earlier. If you plan to get the Advantage Plan and download every track every day, in a 5 years or so, you will be maxing out Access. Even before you get there, you are going to be moving at the speed of mud.

[masterpeg]

have picked up a book on access. Is it possible to learn just what I need to know to accomplish my goals of building a program to crunch the numbers for me or do you recommend me learning from page 1 all the way through. I am a complete novice at access, but with other programs I have gotten away with ths tactic so I was wondering what you guys who use macros think.

[sjk]

You need to understand tables and queries. I wouldn't worry much about forms or reports for now.

[masterpeg]

thanks...would you happen to know of any training cds available on tables, queriies/macros/visual basic because I was searching and couldn't find anything that delved too far into programming.

[sjk]

I learned from the documentation that came with the version of the program I bought in 1993 and have learned the rest through trial and error. Sorry I can't help.

[modred]

masterpeg

For a beginner to programming John Smiley books are good.

Learn to Program with Visual Basic 6
(It also includes the learning edition of the VB6 compiler)

and

Learn to Program Visual Basic Databases

are good to get you going.

First check your local library and nothing is available then try Amazon.com. It has used versions for a $5.00 plus $3.49 shipping.

These will get you going.

[modred]

Oh I forgot one of the best bargans on the net if you like computer aided learning is the following. I have used it and it's great.

http://www.learnvisualstudio.net/

[Tom]

Visual Basic Q?

I used to write program in plain old DOS basic - is Visual Basic the "windows" equivalent to this? Is it a stand alon program I can buy and use like the old basic?
I just write simple programs for horse racing formulas and such.

[Jeff P]

Visual Basic Q?

I used to write program in plain old DOS basic - is Visual Basic the "windows" equivalent to this? Is it a stand alon program I can buy and use like the old basic?
I just write simple programs for horse racing formulas and such.

Tom,

Visual Basic 6.0 is by Microsoft and is a stand alone program. It was considered state of the art in the late 90's. About mid 2001, Microsoft began phasing it out by pushing its .NET platform down the throats of us developers. But it remains a very good programming environment. There is nothing that you can't do with it in terms of authoring handicapping programs.

If you are just getting started, and just want to write simple programs for handicapping, I'd recommend the "Learning Version" over the more expensive "Professional" or "Enterprise" versions. The Learning Version, if you can find one (check E-Bay or a garage sale) came with a book from Microsoft Press (authored by John Halverson) and a CD that explained enough to get me headed in the right direction.

Visual Basic is a different animal than DOS based Q Basic. It offers far more power and flexibility. Once you know what you are doing, you can easily give a professional polished look to your work that is, IMHO, almost impossible to achieve using Q Basic. The only area (again my opinion) where Q Basic is superior is interfacing with the dot matrix printers (remember those?) of yesteryear. The reason I say that is becasue in VB, you send the entire document to the printer. In Q Basic, you could send individual characters to the printer via the LPRINT statement which is not supported in VB 6.

If you have existing Q Basic functions, they are not all that hard, depending on how you structured them, to convert so that they'll work inside Visual Basic.

That said, you probably won't be able to hit the ground running. There is a learning curve involved. A lot of the syntax is very similar. And some of it isn't. All it really takes is some patience and a willingness to learn. The amount of available material on the web and in book form for learning VB 6 is simply staggering.

I say go for it.