Racetracks without remodels why?

[ZippyChippy423]

There are dozens of t-bred and harness tracks across the country that have gone without an update for several decades why? One track in particular is Pimlico. The history behind this place and look at what it has become. Another example is Monticello harness. Talk about being depressing.

[Hambletonian]

OK, I will bite because I am bored.

The reason is that there is no money to invest to complete the remodel, and then the return on that investment would be nearly zero. Monticello has completely given up on attracting folks to their live product, they could build a new grandstand that seated only 100 people and the folks that show up would have plenty of elbow room.

The only way Pimlico will be renovated would be if it were turned into a full scale casino. Otherwise, every dollar invested in a renovation would be wasted.

Since the US is approaching France in the percentage of $$$ bet offtrack, the best plan would be to not worry about the live crowd for the vast majority of tracks, simply turn them into simulcasting signal providers, build them in the middle of nowhere where land is cheap, and provide modern-but very small-facilities for the live crowd.

A great example of a right-sized facility is Ajax Downs in Ontario. Decent sized slots area, nice restaurant, and small but modern grandstand.

[JustRalph]

There are dozens of t-bred and harness tracks across the country that have gone without an update for several decades why? One track in particular is Pimlico. The history behind this place and look at what it has become. Another example is Monticello harness. Talk about being depressing.

Have you driven around Baltimore? Especially the area around Pimlico?

Would you put money into it?

[AlsoEligible]

The estimated price tag to bring Pimlico up to snuff is $300-$500 million.

Why in the world would Stronach pay that when he has another track 20 miles down the road, where they've already spent $30-$50m (and counting) on renovations? It makes absolutely no business sense.

The only way Pimlico is getting updated is if the state or city pays for it. Locals pretend that the track needs to be saved (even though no one gives two shits about it aside from one weekend in May), but let's see if they're as passionate when asked to foot the bill themselves.

It was a great track in its prime, but now it's a crumbling building (literally, water was leaking through the roof during rain this past Preakness) in an even worse neighborhood. It's past time for it to be put out of its misery, and move the Preakness to Laurel.

[bobphilo]

Pimlico's connection to the Preakness is the only reason the track hadn't been closed long ago.

[Dave Schwartz]

I wrote this fictional article in 1991 and have been surprised at how much of it came true.

Unfortunately, the best stuff - like ESPN's Monday Night at the Races never happened. (Not that I really expected them to.)

2001 A Race Oddessy (https://pacemakestherace.com/2001-a-race-odyssey-a-future-history-of-racing-as-seen-from-the-early-21st-century/)

[horses4courses]

Where's the guy with the Spanky gif???
Tossing the cash out the window......:pound:

[ZippyChippy423]

It makes zero sense for a track to not want a remodel unless it foresees it to go out of business. As far as I know the track makes a much larger profit if money is wagered on location. The other thing is you always hear track management or owners complaining that nobody comes out to the track anymore and bet online etc blah blah blah. Ya know 20-30 years ago couples, friends and groups came out to the track because it was a nice venue at the time. Who the hell wants to go out of there way to visit depressing cemeteries like Monticello and Pimlico? Imagine bringing a date there? I think a track like Aqueduct should be shut down and NYRA switches between Belmont and Saratoga. Summer/ fall racing at TOGA would be sweet. When Gulfstream rebuilt they saw the future( smart people) and made a much smaller grandstand area. It’s my favorite track except for the turf course which is being redone for the winter meet !

[sour grapes]

aqueduct has had some upgrades since the casino opened,it actually is one of the best tracks to watch a race live outside.

[ZippyChippy423]

Is the walking ring paddock still a pit below ground? If so Aqueduct needs to shut the track down. Nobody looks forward to the 4/5 horse fields in the winter..

[Tom]

Have you driven around Baltimore? Especially the area around Pimlico?

Would you put money into it?


You know, Pimlico is my favorite track of all time.
And I like it just the way it is.

The ambiance is reminiscent of my misspent youth visiting track up and down the east coast, leaving Pimlico and racing to get to Penn for the first race. Sitting in a bar the night before the PReakness listening to the buzz about Spectacular Bid the next day.

Holding a pic 4 ticket with 4 shots at a min payout of $3800 at a Satin seminar at Pim ( I finished 2-3-4-and 5. :rant:)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

It's not the track for me, it's the game.

[Tom]

aqueduct has had some upgrades since the casino opened,it actually is one of the best tracks to watch a race live outside.

I have never been there, but I've seen some photos here from posters who had meeting there. Looks like a great view from the upper grandstand. FL has a similar view, albeit a smaller scale.

:ThmbUp:

[wisconsin]

I wrote this fictional article in 1991 and have been surprised at how much of it came true.

Unfortunately, the best stuff - like ESPN's Monday Night at the Races never happened. (Not that I really expected them to.)

2001 A Race Oddessy (https://pacemakestherace.com/2001-a-race-odyssey-a-future-history-of-racing-as-seen-from-the-early-21st-century/)


Wow...pretty good.

[Tom]

Is the walking ring paddock still a pit below ground? If so Aqueduct needs to shut the track down. Nobody looks forward to the 4/5 horse fields in the winter..

They really should consider 3 days a week - Fri-Sat-Sun.
The just cannot fill races anymore.

[ronsmac]

Roughly 20 years ago, before I was betting by phone or internet. I would drive 50 minutes to York otb rather than driving 15 minutes to Pimlico, and York otb was no Taj Mahal.

[ZippyChippy423]

I know at one time they had several OTB’s in Mahattan. Does anyone know if they still do and what would be a better locstion visit?

[elhelmete]

It makes zero sense for a track to not want a remodel unless it foresees it to go out of business. As far as I know the track makes a much larger profit if money is wagered on location. The other thing is you always hear track management or owners complaining that nobody comes out to the track anymore and bet online etc blah blah blah. Ya know 20-30 years ago couples, friends and groups came out to the track because it was a nice venue at the time. Who the hell wants to go out of there way to visit depressing cemeteries like Monticello and Pimlico? Imagine bringing a date there? I think a track like Aqueduct should be shut down and NYRA switches between Belmont and Saratoga. Summer/ fall racing at TOGA would be sweet. When Gulfstream rebuilt they saw the future( smart people) and made a much smaller grandstand area. It’s my favorite track except for the turf course which is being redone for the winter meet !

Track owners can "want" something all day long but redevelopment in major markets is $$$$ and there's ZERO reason to believe there would be a break even during their grandchildren's lifetimes.

Have you been to Gulfstream in person? Nice place, agreed, but on-track crowd is nothing to brag about, and the opening of the nearby Aventura Mall made it even sparser. I'd almost rather be at a depressing cemetery than I would an empty but 'upscale' restaurant.

[bobphilo]

I have never been there, but I've seen some photos here from posters who had meeting there. Looks like a great view from the upper grandstand. FL has a similar view, albeit a smaller scale.

:ThmbUp:

I've been to both Belmont and Aqueduct and found them both great for fans/bettors.

Belmont is a BIG beautiful park and a terrific place for everyone from families to serious bettors. I've lived on the Belmont backstretch and it is like a picturesque village, though the buildings are over 100 years old and could burn like matchboxes. Plenty of space and if you show up early, even on big race days, you can get a great grandstand seat.

Aqueduct has been called a "racing factory" and though it's meant as a derogatory description, is really a good efficient place for betters and fans.

Both have excellent grandstand views but you're going to need a good pair of binoculars to see the Belmont backstretch as Big Sandy really is big.

Of course, I haven't been there in years so some things may have changed.

[lex]

Is the walking ring paddock still a pit below ground? If so Aqueduct needs to shut the track down. Nobody looks forward to the 4/5 horse fields in the winter..

Heresy!!

I love the Big A, the paddock, the gulls and the always interesting patrons. Wish they had kept the inner.

[bobphilo]

I know at one time they had several OTB’s in Mahattan. Does anyone know if they still do and what would be a better locstion visit?

NYC OTB went bankrupt several years ago. I remember betting there back when I lived in the Big Apple.

[porchy44]

Scioto Downs on the South side of Columbus, Ohio is an embarrassment. The grandstand has been unsafe and hasn't been used for a few years. Last year they had port-johns outside for people to use.

[JustRalph]

Scioto Downs on the South side of Columbus, Ohio is an embarrassment. The grandstand has been unsafe and hasn't been used for a few years. Last year they had port-johns outside for people to use.

Really? What about the casino next door?

[porchy44]

Adjacent newer slot building next door is well maintained. There is an old mattress laying in their infield now.

[JustRalph]

It makes zero sense for a track to not want a remodel unless it foresees it to go out of business. As far as I know the track makes a much larger profit if money is wagered on location. The other thing is you always hear track management or owners complaining that nobody comes out to the track anymore and bet online etc blah blah blah. Ya know 20-30 years ago couples, friends and groups came out to the track because it was a nice venue at the time. Who the hell wants to go out of there way to visit depressing cemeteries like Monticello and Pimlico? Imagine bringing a date there? I think a track like Aqueduct should be shut down and NYRA switches between Belmont and Saratoga. Summer/ fall racing at TOGA would be sweet. When Gulfstream rebuilt they saw the future( smart people) and made a much smaller grandstand area. It’s my favorite track except for the turf course which is being redone for the winter meet !

Scenario

A track spends 5 million to upgrade (low number) and how long do you think it takes to fill those seats in a Senario like above? 2 years? 3 years? Businesses cannot wait that long for a return. I don’t care who you are. You put your money where you will get the fastest return. Btw, I don’t think you will fill those seats in your remodeled track. YOU JUST LOST 5 MILLION BUCKS

There are very few tracks out there that could survive the remodel scenario. There should be ten tracks in this country. Not fifty.
The fact that 30-40 tracks nurse themselves off the crappy profit they make now, only hurts everyone involved in the sport. It’s just not a viable sport anymore with so many participant tracks, no horses etc.

There are way too many choices for young people today. They will not be attracted to racing ever again. Racing does nothing to attract them, and they consider the game too hard. There is nothing going to change the course the game is on.

Nobody takes a date to the track, btw. Not anymore.

[Redbullsnation]

Finger Lakes is trying to get a turf course in but that hasn't got off the ground yet. You need money in order to remodel these tracks. The owners does HAVE money but is it worth paying for these upgrades? Maybe not

[stlseeeek]

look for a bunch of tracks to promise major renovations, if given Sports betting at their establishments.

Fairmount Park has already started their lobbying, with Casino Queen their Casino partner.