Formely Matt Carothers thread, but hijacked by Vic

[ronsmac]

He needs to be a solo host. I have tvg on in the background and I'm barely paying attention to it, yet still annoyed at how many times Matt steps on Eurton and vice versa. I finally changed the channel. He's not bad on television just not good when he has to work with someone else.

[turfnsport]

Whoever he works with he interrupts nearly every sentence. He steps on everyone ALL the time. It's incredibly annoying. Nobody can finish a sentence when he is on the air.

I have been using RTN and the NYRA app to stream on TV lately, and the silence in between races is very relaxing.

[Tom]

He has been 10 years old for 30 years now.

[thaskalos]

If the TVG host isn't named Nick Hines...then I reach for the mute button.

[Mike_412]

I have been using RTN and the NYRA app to stream on TV lately, and the silence in between races is very relaxing.


So much this. I bought a Roku prior to the Saratoga meet. Between the free NYRA Now app and buying a subscription to RTN playing from home has been much more enjoyable. Highly recommend to anyone on the fence.

[Tom]

If the TVG host isn't named Nick Hines...then I reach for the mute button.

Is that the Sarge guy?
He's always going "He yaw"
I though he was throwing up.:lol:

[v j stauffer]

If the TVG host isn't named Nick Hines...then I reach for the mute button.

What???

[castaway01]

If the TVG host isn't named Nick Hines...then I reach for the mute button.

Don't lie, we know you're writing down Vic's picks...

[v j stauffer]

Don't lie, we know you're writing down Vic's picks...

Even if he isn't. I KNOW I'm not on mute. Thasky will be listening for me to say something stupid that he can bust my balls about.

Warning: I'm on next weekend the 28th, 29th & 30th. Combination of TVG & TVG2.

[v j stauffer]

Whoever he works with he interrupts nearly every sentence. He steps on everyone ALL the time. It's incredibly annoying. Nobody can finish a sentence when he is on the air.

I have been using RTN and the NYRA app to stream on TV lately, and the silence in between races is very relaxing.

Next time I do a shift on TVG 2 if you'd like I'll have you on as a guest handicapper.

Spice up the silence. :)

[thaskalos]

What???

Truth be told...I've only seen you there once lately, and it was for a shorter-than-normal session. The other guys have a more "regular" working schedule...so, I naturally thought only of them when I made my prior "mute button" comment. No...I don't mute you out, VIc...and I particularly like when you go out on a limb once in a while. That's what I admire about The Sarge too. The other guys there are too "wishy-washy" for my taste. :ThmbDown:

[thaskalos]

Next time I do a shift on TVG 2 if you'd like I'll have you on as a guest handicapper.

Spice up the silence. :)

Does this offer apply to me, as well? But...I'd like you to know that, with me as a guest handicapper...you'd be lucky to get a word in edgewise.

[NY BRED]

Matt actually ran his own show on TVG about three years ago.

I think the perfect co-host would be Simon who gives insight into breeding.
and/or Dave Weaver who provides picks based on the sheets.

[v j stauffer]

Truth be told...I've only seen you there once lately, and it was for a shorter-than-normal session. The other guys have a more "regular" working schedule...so, I naturally thought only of them when I made my prior "mute button" comment. No...I don't mute you out, VIc...and I particularly like when you go out on a limb once in a while. That's what I admire about The Sarge too. The other guys there are too "wishy-washy" for my taste. :ThmbDown:

The Sarge is a terrific handicapper. Has a feel like an elite player. Or at least what I hear elite players are like.

[v j stauffer]

Does this offer apply to me, as well? But...I'd like you to know that, with me as a guest handicapper...you'd be lucky to get a word in edgewise.

Sure Thasky. First rule of broadcasting is don't bring on a guest that knows more than you. But what the heck. Columbus took a chance. You can come on too.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Sure Thasky. First rule of broadcasting is don't bring on a guest that knows more than you. But what the heck. Columbus took a chance. You can come on too.Vic, anyway you could plug PaceAdvantage Website in the interest of getting talent on the board...? ;)...you could suggest that it is a great online discussion board for race fans, owners, trainers, jockeys, and other racing “personalities”...?

[turfnsport]

Next time I do a shift on TVG 2 if you'd like I'll have you on as a guest handicapper.

Spice up the silence. :)

Haha... I think I'd be more suitable for TVG3 or TVG4...I don't watch RTN when you are on though.

[JustRalph]

Vic, anyway you could plug PaceAdvantage Website in the interest of getting talent on the board...? ;)...you could suggest that it is a great online discussion board for race fans, owners, trainers, jockeys, and other racing “personalities”...?

Why? They all have been here and still lurk.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Why? They all have been here and still lurk.I think there are a lot of race fans that have never heard of PA and Vic’s presence at TVG would be a great opportunity to get the word out, no..?

[how cliche]

my problem with matt carruthers is he appears to be drunk on the air. the next time any of you are setting up to grind for a day, note how he seems cogent and lucid at the beginning of his shift. contrast that with how he looks and acts the end of it.

[turfnsport]

my problem with matt carruthers is he appears to be drunk on the air. the next time any of you are setting up to grind for a day, note how he seems cogent and lucid at the beginning of his shift. contrast that with how he looks and acts the end of it.

Cmon man. He's not drunk. No need to go there. Although I do think by the end of his of shift many of the TVG viewers may be.

[Tom]

My boss used to tell us that if we want to drink at lunch, we should drink bourbon and not vodka. He would rather the customers knew we were drunk than think we were stupid!

[the little guy]

Matt is extremely knowledgable and well prepared. Does that not count for a lot? He's also a personality. All of these things make him good at his job. The fact that you are talking about him means he's doing his job well.

[turfnsport]

The fact that you are talking about him means he's doing his job well.

By your logic if I read a bad review of a new album in Rolling Stone I should still buy the record?

[the little guy]

By your logic if I read a bad review of a new album in Rolling Stone I should still buy the record?

Not an analogy I would have used.

i guess, to start, that would depend on your opinion of the reviewer. But that would just be scratching the surface.

[turfnsport]

Not an analogy I would have used.

i guess, to start, that would depend on your opinion of the reviewer. But that would just be scratching the surface.

And I don't read Rolling Stone anymore. Who does?

[metro]

Matt is extremely knowledgable and well prepared. Does that not count for a lot? He's also a personality. All of these things make him good at his job. The fact that you are talking about him means he's doing his job well.

Plenty of knowledge on the TVG set and yes that includes Matt, just have to wade through the mindless minutia to get to it sometimes. As a viewer I'm interested in Matt's knowledge, not his hair.

[jimmyb]

I'll listen when Simon Bray or Vic are on.

[turfnsport]

I'll listen when Simon Bray or Vic are on.

Yes I really like Simon..People trash Todd but when Todd & Simon work together I find it entertaining. There are some things about TVG that are not good but overall I enjoy all the talking heads except one or two.

[ronsmac]

Plenty of knowledge on the TVG set and yes that includes Matt, just have to wade through the mindless minutia to get to it sometimes. As a viewer I'm interested in Matt's knowledge, not his hair.He does have great hair.

[anotherCAfan]

Sarge, Vic, Rich Perloff, and Kurt Hoover are some of my favorites.

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

Matt, Rich, and Kurt give best insights IMO. Don't understand any of the knocks on Matt. Yes, he and others seem awkward teamed up w/Brittney, but I think more generational and a matter of style.

Never got the Sarge thing as a TV personality, but he seems like a smart, good guy. Haven't noticed him pulling in many Pick 4's or Pick 5's but will nail a horse that I never saw (bombs).

[Nitro]

Matt is extremely knowledgable and well prepared. Does that not count for a lot? He's also a personality. All of these things make him good at his job. The fact that you are talking about him means he's doing his job well.
It’s certainly refreshing to read something positive about Matt. Your assessment couldn’t be more factual and true than some of the other nonsense posted on this thread. Isn’t it always amazing how some offer unwarranted criticism as if they could do a better job.

You handicapping gurus don’t have to agree with anything a TV announcer has to say about their selections or play suggestions, but keep in mind these guys are also ambassadors of a game that can certainly use some positive PR. It’s something unfortunately that’s lacking on the PA forums. So who can we criticize for that?
I suspect that much of the pessimistic commentary is a reflection of how the game has impacted the bank roll and the resulting attitude.

[turfnsport]

It’s certainly refreshing to read something positive about Matt. Your assessment couldn’t be more factual and true than some of the other nonsense posted on this thread. Isn’t it always amazing how some offer unwarranted criticism as if they could do a better job.

You handicapping gurus don’t have to agree with anything a TV announcer has to say about their selections or play suggestions, but keep in mind these guys are also ambassadors of a game that can certainly use some positive PR. It’s something unfortunately that’s lacking on the PA forums. So who can we criticize for that?
I suspect that much of the pessimistic commentary is a reflection of how the game has impacted the bank roll and the resulting attitude.

Huh? The person that started this thread stated nothing about his handicapping ability, just that he talked over his colleague. I then stated he does it all the time, and I mentioned nothing about his handicapping ability either.

I do not think that is "unwarranted criticism" at all.

[Tom]

You handicapping gurus don’t have to agree with anything a TV announcer has to say about their selections or play suggestions, but keep in mind these guys are also ambassadors of a game that can certainly use some positive PR. It’s something unfortunately that’s lacking on the PA forums. So who can we criticize for that?
I suspect that much of the pessimistic commentary is a reflection of how the game has impacted the bank roll and the resulting attitude.

First of all, I am a customer of the game it is not my role to provide PR for it. I don't get paid to do their work for them.

Criticize them for not earning it.

My betting has nothing at all to do with my opinion of Matt.
I never listen to his picks. I try not to listen him period.

He may well be doing his job fantastically, but, I am not his boss and MY criteria for whether or not not I enjoy listening to him has nothing to do with his job or how well he does it.

I think he is like listening to a 10 year old more often than not.
Maybe a smart 10 year old, who can pick winners.

But still a 10 year old.

Where does everyone get the idea that we are supposed to give TVG a pass because their mission is not to entertain the customers? I pay to get TVG on my service.

So, maybe he does work for me after all.:rolleyes:

[pandy]

Matt is extremely knowledgable and well prepared. Does that not count for a lot? He's also a personality. All of these things make him good at his job. The fact that you are talking about him means he's doing his job well.

Very good point. Being animated, like you are, by the way, and Matt is, helps keep people from falling asleep. Some people are made for TV, some aren't. Like Andy Beyer. As a writer, he's one of the all-time greats. On TV, he makes watching paint dry seem exciting.

[v j stauffer]

my problem with matt carruthers is he appears to be drunk on the air. the next time any of you are setting up to grind for a day, note how he seems cogent and lucid at the beginning of his shift. contrast that with how he looks and acts the end of it.

Nonsense

[v j stauffer]

Matt is extremely knowledgable and well prepared. Does that not count for a lot? He's also a personality. All of these things make him good at his job. The fact that you are talking about him means he's doing his job well.

I agree with all of that. Would add Matt is an original TVG personality. Meaning he's been on the air since 1999.

Almost 20 years in and he's ALWAYS prepared. He's ALWAYS energetic. He ALWAYS give the feel that's he's engaged, excited and happy to be on the air.

4 hours of live television requires a lot of prep time. Rule of thumb is the same time as the shift. That's pretty much the way it works for me. Four hour shift. Four hours to be ready.

Don't do the work. Gloss over. Phone it in. Do it on the fly and the show suffers mightily.

On a personal note I can say of all the people I've worked with on TVG Matt is the most consistent of character. Always upbeat. Always respectful. Looks for the good in others. Fine family man.

[thaskalos]

Very good point. Being animated, like you are, by the way, and Matt is, helps keep people from falling asleep. Some people are made for TV, some aren't. Like Andy Beyer. As a writer, he's one of the all-time greats. On TV, he makes watching paint dry seem exciting.

I have seen Beyer on TV several times...and I find myself hanging on his every word. A Beyer/Serling TV segment that I saw a few years back remains as the single most enjoyable horse racing commentary that I can ever recall. I might be in the minority, but I don't much value the "glibness" of the TV hosts when I watch a horse racing show. My "entertainment" comes from the genuine handicapping knowledge that the hosts possess...and the sincerity with which they relay it to the viewer. Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and I'll take that over "style" ANY day!

[metro]

I have seen Beyer on TV several times...and I find myself hanging on his every word. A Beyer/Serling TV segment that I saw a few years back remains as the single most enjoyable horse racing commentary that I can ever recall. I might be in the minority, but I don't much value the "glibness" of the TV hosts when I watch a horse racing show. My "entertainment" comes from the genuine handicapping knowledge that the hosts possess...and the sincerity with which they relay it to the viewer. Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and I'll take that over "style" ANY day!

Aaron Vercruysse and Jeff Siegel on the now defunct HRTV used to provide some good handicapping back and forth, one of the downsides when TVG bought that network out was the two of them basically disappearing from broadcast television.

[v j stauffer]

Aaron Vercruysse and Jeff Siegel on the now defunct HRTV used to provide some good handicapping back and forth, one of the downsides when TVG bought that network out was the two of them basically disappearing from broadcast television.

Jeff and Aaron are terrific. Their work is still available on XBTV. However, my preference is you watch TVG. We're pretty good too.

See you on the air this coming Fri, Sat & Sun.

[metro]

Jeff and Aaron are terrific. Their work is still available on XBTV. However, my preference is you watch TVG. We're pretty good too.

See you on the air this coming Fri, Sat & Sun.

I do check in on them on XBTV occasionally, especially on the bigger race days.

Any idea who you will be paired with next weekend? With Santa Anita opening kind of hoping you get paired with Kurt Hoover at least one afternoon.

[v j stauffer]

I do check in on them on XBTV occasionally, especially on the bigger race days.

Any idea who you will be paired with next weekend? With Santa Anita opening kind of hoping you get paired with Kurt Hoover at least one afternoon.

Kurt is fabulous. Worked with him many times at Hollywood Park. Be thrilled to work with him anytime.

Friday: Solo on TVG2 from 1:00 to 4:30

Saturday: Solo on TVG2 from 1:00 to 4:00 then what's called The Bridge on TVG from 6:00 to 7:00.

Sunday: Solo on TVG2 from 3:00 to & 7:30

Send me a tweet during any of those shows and I'll say someting, probably nice, about PA. :cool:

[VigorsTheGrey]

Kurt is fabulous. Worked with him many times at Hollywood Park. Be thrilled to work with him anytime.

Friday: Solo on TVG2 from 1:00 to 4:30

Saturday: Solo on TVG2 from 1:00 to 4:00 then what's called The Bridge on TVG from 6:00 to 7:00.

Sunday: Solo on TVG2 from 3:00 to & 7:30

Send me a tweet during any of those shows and I'll say someting, probably nice, about PA. :cool:

TVG comes in on my cable...but doesn’t mention that it is TVG1...how is TVG2 accessed on cable..?

[ReplayRandall]

I have seen Beyer on TV several times...and I find myself hanging on his every word. A Beyer/Serling TV segment that I saw a few years back remains as the single most enjoyable horse racing commentary that I can ever recall. I might be in the minority, but I don't much value the "glibness" of the TV hosts when I watch a horse racing show. My "entertainment" comes from the genuine handicapping knowledge that the hosts possess...and the sincerity with which they relay it to the viewer. Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and I'll take that over "style" ANY day!

Here ya go Gus...

https://youtu.be/5OuETNXDaf0

[cj]

TVG comes in on my cable...but doesn’t mention that it is TVG1...how is TVG2 accessed on cable..?

Dish Network has it.

[v j stauffer]

TVG comes in on my cable...but doesn’t mention that it is TVG1...how is TVG2 accessed on cable..?

I get my TVG2 on Roku. Perhaps others know if there are other ways.

[cj]

I get my TVG2 on Roku. Perhaps others know if there are other ways.

The problem with those is you have to have a TVG account, and depending where you live not everyone can get one. For example, Oklahoma. Weird because every other ADW I have found besides TVG and NYRABets takes Oklahoma.

[thaskalos]

Kurt is fabulous. Worked with him many times at Hollywood Park. Be thrilled to work with him anytime.

Friday: Solo on TVG2 from 1:00 to 4:30

Saturday: Solo on TVG2 from 1:00 to 4:00 then what's called The Bridge on TVG from 6:00 to 7:00.

Sunday: Solo on TVG2 from 3:00 to & 7:30

Send me a tweet during any of those shows and I'll say someting, probably nice, about PA. :cool:

I haven't as of yet been able to motivate myself to open a tweeter account. Maybe now I will.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I haven't as of yet been able to motivate myself to open a tweeter account. Maybe now I will. Email mail@tvg.com should work for Vic if he checks it on air...or at least that’s what Rich Perloff tells viewers when he is on...

[v j stauffer]

Email mail@tvg.com should work for Vic if he checks it on air...or at least that’s what Rich Perloff tells viewers when he is on...

I asked Rich about how to access emails. He said it was very complicated and I needed IT to help since I use my PC when on the air.

Rich suggested I push everybody to my twitter. So I did.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I asked Rich about how to access emails. He said it was very complicated and I needed IT to help since I use my PC when on the air.

Rich suggested I push everybody to my twitter. So I did.

Email complicated..? Now I know Rich is a Dis-info agent like me..:lol::lol:...there must be more to THIS “obvious fabrication”...
Better ask Rich if he wants to come clean about THAT ONE..:lol:

[VigorsTheGrey]

Email complicated..? Now I know Rich is a Dis-info agent like me..:lol::lol:...there must be more to THIS “obvious fabrication”...
Better ask Rich if he wants to come clean about THAT ONE..:lol:Honestly, I would like to Email, you see, like Gus I am twitter-less...and don’t really like the idea of becoming a Tweeter...
But alas, I’ll understand...as there no doubt are technical constraints involved...the portable handicapsule has not been invented yet...

[v j stauffer]

Honestly, I would like to Email, you see, like Gus I am twitter-less...and don’t really like the idea of becoming a Tweeter...
But alas, I’ll understand...as there no doubt are technical constraints involved...the portable handicapsule has not been invented yet...

If you want to email during my show. Here's my personal email. thegoofontheroof@hotmail.com I'll remind myself to check it during breaks.

[v j stauffer]

Email complicated..? Now I know Rich is a Dis-info agent like me..:lol::lol:...there must be more to THIS “obvious fabrication”...
Better ask Rich if he wants to come clean about THAT ONE..:lol:

This isn't espionage. Everybody that checks the emails when on the air is using a TVG owned laptop that's connected to the corporate email. I was told it was very complicated to tap into that system from an outside computer. Laugh all you want. But that's the story.

[chiguy]

Matt is extremely knowledgable and well prepared. Does that not count for a lot? He's also a personality. All of these things make him good at his job. The fact that you are talking about him means he's doing his job well.


100% agree with this. You can tell when he is on that he has capped the races and put time in. I like that he takes a shot on some races and gives you excellent background on why while fully acknowledging that he is taking a shot. My favorite guy on that channel.

[Tom]

I have seen Beyer on TV several times...and I find myself hanging on his every word. A Beyer/Serling TV segment that I saw a few years back remains as the single most enjoyable horse racing commentary that I can ever recall. I might be in the minority, but I don't much value the "glibness" of the TV hosts when I watch a horse racing show. My "entertainment" comes from the genuine handicapping knowledge that the hosts possess...and the sincerity with which they relay it to the viewer. Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and I'll take that over "style" ANY day!

Amen.
(insert bowing emoticon)

[castaway01]

Very good point. Being animated, like you are, by the way, and Matt is, helps keep people from falling asleep. Some people are made for TV, some aren't. Like Andy Beyer. As a writer, he's one of the all-time greats. On TV, he makes watching paint dry seem exciting.

I don't find Beyer boring at all on air, though he's better with TLG or (before he retired) Steven Crist because obviously that's a different relationship than he has a random DRF host. Sounds more like two opinionated friends talking about the races, which is the ideal format to me.

[AndyC]

I have seen Beyer on TV several times...and I find myself hanging on his every word. A Beyer/Serling TV segment that I saw a few years back remains as the single most enjoyable horse racing commentary that I can ever recall. I might be in the minority, but I don't much value the "glibness" of the TV hosts when I watch a horse racing show. My "entertainment" comes from the genuine handicapping knowledge that the hosts possess...and the sincerity with which they relay it to the viewer. Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and I'll take that over "style" ANY day!

You beg the question as to what substance is. Having spent a small amount of time with Matt while I was leaching a seat in his dad's box at Del Mar, I would say that he has great handicapping knowledge and a passion for racing that rivals Beyer's. So in my view it would come down to style. If somebody is giving me good information I can overlook their style.

[castaway01]

I get my TVG2 on Roku. Perhaps others know if there are other ways.

If you're a TVG customer, like we're forced to be here in NJ, you can stream TVG and/or TVG2 through the TVG site as well.

[castaway01]

You beg the question as to what substance is. Having spent a small amount of time with Matt while I was leaching a seat in his dad's box at Del Mar, I would say that he has great handicapping knowledge and a passion for racing that rivals Beyer's. So in my view it would come down to style. If somebody is giving me good information I can overlook their style.

You could also ask the question of why people don't respect the information Matt is giving, considering they've had so many years to get used to his style on air. Personally I'm neutral on him---I don't watch much TVG these days but if I put it on I don't mute it or anything---but do you think people are just so biased against his intrusive, chatty style that they're not noticing the info he's giving out?

[thaskalos]

You beg the question as to what substance is. Having spent a small amount of time with Matt while I was leaching a seat in his dad's box at Del Mar, I would say that he has great handicapping knowledge and a passion for racing that rivals Beyer's. So in my view it would come down to style. If somebody is giving me good information I can overlook their style.

The most I can do here is relate things as I see them...from my own point of view. I've never sat anywhere near Matt at Del Mar...but I know for a fact that I would have MUCH rather chosen to sit with BEYER. I am glad that Matt seems equally "substantial" to you...and I will endeavor to add this fact to my list of the REST of the horse-related things that you and I are in disagreement about. :ThmbUp:

[turfnsport]

The most I can do here is relate things as I see them...from my own point of view. I've never sat anywhere near Matt at Del Mar...but I know for a fact that I would have MUCH rather chosen to sit with BEYER. I am glad that Matt seems equally "substantial" to you...and I will endeavor to add this fact to my list of the REST of the horse-related things that you and I are in disagreement about. :ThmbUp:

In my mind comparing the two is like comparing Stephen Hawking and Sheldon Cooper.

As someone that has sat at the racetrack with Andy, for me personally, there is nobody else that could come close to matching that experience. However, if not for Andy's books I'd probably be selling shoes. The only impact Matt has made on me is maybe breaking a pen or something.

[turfnsport]

I will add that Matt has been doing basically the same job for 20 years. Whether you like his style or not, he still brings it enthusiastically day after day and you have to give him credit for that.

[jimmyb]

It can't be easy being loquacious for four straight hours. That being said, I appreciate someone who appears genuine.


(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjU_-OL7NTdAhUD31MKHW-2DXsQFjAHegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbandictionary.com%2Fdefine .php%3Fterm%3Dloquacious&usg=AOvVaw014XSdFxUBGAlEu7FmOp1s)

[AndyC]

The most I can do here is relate things as I see them...from my own point of view. I've never sat anywhere near Matt at Del Mar...but I know for a fact that I would have MUCH rather chosen to sit with BEYER. I am glad that Matt seems equally "substantial" to you...and I will endeavor to add this fact to my list of the REST of the horse-related things that you and I are in disagreement about. :ThmbUp:

You certainly read a lot into my response. I was not making a case of one over another, just a case that Matt is not without substance with regard to his handicapping knowledge. I did not choose to sit with one over the other and I made no comment about anybody being equally "substantial". I said that Matt has passion that I think rivals Beyer's.

If the "facts" that you might disagree with me are derived by the methodology shown in your post above then you are disagreeing with fiction.

[thaskalos]

You certainly read a lot into my response. I was not making a case of one over another, just a case that Matt is not without substance with regard to his handicapping knowledge. I did not choose to sit with one over the other and I made no comment about anybody being equally "substantial". I said that Matt has passion that I think rivals Beyer's.

If the "facts" that you might disagree with me are derived by the methodology shown in your post above then you are disagreeing with fiction.

All I was doing in my reply to Pandy, which you responded to, was disagreeing with his opinion that Beyer is very boring on TV. Pandy said that the televised Beyer makes paint-watching exciting...and that strongly contradicts my own opinion of him. I made no mention of Matt in my post to Pandy...nor had I mentioned Matt anywhere else in this thread. Now...if you agree with Pandy that Beyer is excruciatingly boring on TV, then argue with me on THAT! Don't argue with me about something that I never said. I never questioned Matt's "passion" for the game...nor did I refute that his passion for the game equals that of Beyer's.

I said that Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and you countered by questioning me on what I meant by that. And then you brought the Beyer/Carothers comparison into the discussion. Did that have anything to do with the "substance" that I talked about? Do you really need me to define what "substance" means, for you? When Carothers talks handicapping...does what he says have the same "substance" as when BEYER addresses the topic?

Tell me what you are disagreeing with me about...and then I'll argue with you.

[turfnsport]

Tell me what you are disagreeing with me about...and then I'll argue with you.

I'm so stealing this for a few trolls on Facebook. :lol:

[cj]

Guys, please don't respond to posts that are pretty obviously going to be red carded and / or deleted. It just makes that many more posts that have to be deleted. By all means report posts like that so moderators don't just happen to stumble onto them.

Thanks in advance.

[AndyC]

All I was doing in my reply to Pandy, which you responded to, was disagreeing with his opinion that Beyer is very boring on TV. Pandy said that the televised Beyer makes paint-watching exciting...and that strongly contradicts my own opinion of him. I made no mention of Matt in my post to Pandy...nor had I mentioned Matt anywhere else in this thread. Now...if you agree with Pandy that Beyer is excruciatingly boring on TV, then argue with me on THAT! Don't argue with me about something that I never said. I never questioned Matt's "passion" for the game...nor did I refute that his passion for the game equals that of Beyer's.

I said that Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and you countered by questioning me on what I meant by that. And then you brought the Beyer/Carothers comparison into the discussion. Did that have anything to do with the "substance" that I talked about? Do you really need me to define what "substance" means, for you? When Carothers talks handicapping...does what he says have the same "substance" as when BEYER addresses the topic?

Tell me what you are disagreeing with me about...and then I'll argue with you.

I apologize if you were not referring to Matt in the following: "My "entertainment" comes from the genuine handicapping knowledge that the hosts possess...and the sincerity with which they relay it to the viewer. Beyer has SUBSTANCE...and I'll take that over "style" ANY day!" Seeing how the thread is about Matt you can certainly understand my confusion. No?

I still would like to know what you mean by "substance" when referring to what Beyer brings. I am not saying he doesn't bring "substance" whatever that may mean but you imply that it is something that others don't bring.

[TrackingTVG]

Sorry that my post got deleted. I thought I was being nice compared to what I could say.

But explaining the whole story---

About a year ago, during Saratoga, I decided I was gonna set up a twitter account and track the TVG "experts" plays. We all know they suck, but I wanted to see just how much they suck. Keep in mind, I wasnt being a dick about it--- I wasnt trying to make enemies, I just wanted to track the results.

Well, when they were very predictably bad, I got a lot of heat from people at TVG- between the on air personalities and the producers. Alot of people messaging me, alot of people giving me excuses about bankroll limitations, etc. But the bottom line- Everyone but a few did HORRIBLY. Thats fine.. I expected the backlash.

Some people were sooo gracious, and actually said they liked me tracking the results- Dave Weaver, Meghan Devine, the dude who announces at Pompano, etc. etc. Basically, the people who enjoy handicapping and are in it for the right reasons.

At the same time, I interact with these guys in real life. They are all accessible when they are at the track. Some wanna talk, some dont.

My friend calls me one day... they are talking shit about you on the air. Mike Joyce and Todd Schrupp.... absolutely rag on me, saying I have no life, etc.

Most of the TVG guys blocked me just for posting the results. I talked to Joaquin at Saratoga and he told me some people were real upset/bothered by the postings.

Well... on twitter, Mike Joyce continues to trash me. We've been going back and forth for a year now-- He defended the guy who beat up the horses at Delaware... he defended the jockey situation at GP with Rajiv's family, saying he didn't deserve the suspension. He just doesn't care about the horses or the integrity of the sport. Often times, we interact and its reasonable---usually starts with him defending himself cause he is just on the air "cause of how handsome he is", and ends with agreeing to disagree.



Fast forward to this month, and a horse that I am very fond of (Bunyaan) needs help. He was running 30K claimers at Belmont and even won a race in April. In the beginning of May, he clearly got hurt in a race at Belmont and got pulled up 1/4 in the mile. EVer since that race, Persaud ran him once and then just gave him away to a low level trainer at Finger Lakes. At Finger Lakes, he has been running 5K claimers--- He has beaten 1 horse total in his last 5 races. Hes not okay... He is hurt, and doesnt want to run anymore.

I am ttrying to get him help--- I reach out to people in the industry who can help me get him a good home. The trainer said I could buy him from him for $1000, but the vet costs would be too much for me. I went on twitter for help.

I ask Mike nicely 3 times if he can just retweet it for me.. That Bunyaan needs our help and needs to find a good home to be retired. He ignored me and than blocked me.

I can insult him and argue back and forth with him for a year, and he doesnt block me, but the second I ask for the help for a horses well being, he blocked me.

Shows his true colors and what he really cares about ($$$)

[turfnsport]

So you want to save a horse (very noble) so instead of going to people like the Thoroughbred Aftercare Alliance or an accredited rescue for help, you go to a TVG personality that you have had a checkered past with. That makes no sense.

[Tom]

Tell me what you are disagreeing with me about...and then I'll argue with you.

Now that needs to be on a statue somewhere. :lol::lol::lol:

[TrackingTVG]

So you want to save a horse (very noble) so instead of going to people like the Thoroughbred Aftercare Alliance or an accredited rescue for help, you go to a TVG personality that you have had a checkered past with. That makes no sense.


Ive contacted literally everyone I can.... including every aftercare organization in the northeast. Most are not willing to spend the $1000+ to buy him.

The more people that see it, the better chance of getting help. Everyone else I contacted retweeted it or replied.... Mike Joyce has 10k+ followers. That would have been 10K more people that saw it. If you are in the game of horse racing, you should want to help a horse who is being run into the ground.

[the little guy]

Mike Joyce is VERY high on the list of "good guys ( and gals )" in racing.

[v j stauffer]

Sorry that my post got deleted. I thought I was being nice compared to what I could say.

But explaining the whole story---

About a year ago, during Saratoga, I decided I was gonna set up a twitter account and track the TVG "experts" plays. We all know they suck, but I wanted to see just how much they suck. Keep in mind, I wasnt being a dick about it--- I wasnt trying to make enemies, I just wanted to track the results.

Well, when they were very predictably bad, I got a lot of heat from people at TVG- between the on air personalities and the producers. Alot of people messaging me, alot of people giving me excuses about bankroll limitations, etc. But the bottom line- Everyone but a few did HORRIBLY. Thats fine.. I expected the backlash.

Some people were sooo gracious, and actually said they liked me tracking the results- Dave Weaver, Meghan Devine, the dude who announces at Pompano, etc. etc. Basically, the people who enjoy handicapping and are in it for the right reasons.

At the same time, I interact with these guys in real life. They are all accessible when they are at the track. Some wanna talk, some dont.

My friend calls me one day... they are talking shit about you on the air. Mike Joyce and Todd Schrupp.... absolutely rag on me, saying I have no life, etc.

Most of the TVG guys blocked me just for posting the results. I talked to Joaquin at Saratoga and he told me some people were real upset/bothered by the postings.

Well... on twitter, Mike Joyce continues to trash me. We've been going back and forth for a year now-- He defended the guy who beat up the horses at Delaware... he defended the jockey situation at GP with Rajiv's family, saying he didn't deserve the suspension. He just doesn't care about the horses or the integrity of the sport. Often times, we interact and its reasonable---usually starts with him defending himself cause he is just on the air "cause of how handsome he is", and ends with agreeing to disagree.



Fast forward to this month, and a horse that I am very fond of (Bunyaan) needs help. He was running 30K claimers at Belmont and even won a race in April. In the beginning of May, he clearly got hurt in a race at Belmont and got pulled up 1/4 in the mile. EVer since that race, Persaud ran him once and then just gave him away to a low level trainer at Finger Lakes. At Finger Lakes, he has been running 5K claimers--- He has beaten 1 horse total in his last 5 races. Hes not okay... He is hurt, and doesnt want to run anymore.

I am ttrying to get him help--- I reach out to people in the industry who can help me get him a good home. The trainer said I could buy him from him for $1000, but the vet costs would be too much for me. I went on twitter for help.

I ask Mike nicely 3 times if he can just retweet it for me.. That Bunyaan needs our help and needs to find a good home to be retired. He ignored me and than blocked me.

I can insult him and argue back and forth with him for a year, and he doesnt block me, but the second I ask for the help for a horses well being, he blocked me.

Shows his true colors and what he really cares about ($$$)

I don't suck. I have a massive positive ROI in everything I've done on TVG. Check Marks as well as Pick 3's, 4's & 5's.

Documented if you'd like to see.

[ReplayRandall]

I don't suck. I have a massive positive ROI in everything I've done on TVG. Check Marks as well as Pick 3's, 4's & 5's.

Documented if you'd like to see.


I'd like to see, if you don't mind....

[v j stauffer]

I'd like to see, if you don't mind....

It will be a massive undertaking because I will have to piece it together from my notes and charts.

Also, some of the bigger hits were back when I was doing morning shifts and calling the races in the afternoon at Hollywood Park.

It was sometime around 2004 to 2006 I hit a nice Pick 6. Can't remember exactly but it was over $10,000.

So actually that one hit goes a long way to covering everything.

However, I've also hit some other good stuff.

I do know I'm known for having hit 4 check mark winners that paid over $70.00.

A researcher and I were talking about that the other day.

I'll see what I can compile.

What I'm totally willing to do is keep track of everything I do going forward. Check marks for the win ROI and multiple race wagers. If it doesn't show a profit between now and when I go back to Oaklawn. I'll give Tracking TVG his $1000 to help Bunyaan or whatever horse he'd like.

Deal?

[v j stauffer]

Mike Joyce is VERY high on the list of "good guys ( and gals )" in racing.

Where are you and me on that list? :pound:

[TrackingTVG]

It will be a massive undertaking because I will have to piece it together from my notes and charts.

Also, some of the bigger hits were back when I was doing morning shifts and calling the races in the afternoon at Hollywood Park.

It was sometime around 2004 to 2006 I hit a nice Pick 6. Can't remember exactly but it was over $10,000.

So actually that one hit goes a long way to covering everything.

However, I've also hit some other good stuff.

I do know I'm known for having hit 4 check mark winners that paid over $70.00.

A researcher and I were talking about that the other day.

I'll see what I can compile.

What I'm totally willing to do is keep track of everything I do going forward. Check marks for the win ROI and multiple race wagers. If it doesn't show a profit between now and when I go back to Oaklawn. I'll give Tracking TVG his $1000 to help Bunyaan or whatever horse he'd like.

Deal?

Its gonna be too late for Bunyaan... as his trainer told me that when he goes on the market soon, it will be "first come first serve."... He said they "USUALLY get reputable guys to buy the horse."

Doesn't sound too convincing.

As for the $$... The $1000 is not the problem. Its the vet costs that come with a sore fetlock joint. He likely has huge problems in his knees right now. As anyone with horses knows, the vet bills can really add up.

[TrackingTVG]

And Vic, if you werent posting picks in the summer/fall of 2017, I likely didn't track you.

The bottom line... most of your fellow co workers are trash when it comes to selections or any kind of knowledge.


Rich Perloff just posted a pick 4 ticket: 3 deep in every race.... the first race of the pick 4 were the 3 favorite betting selections. Absolutely horrible ticket structure.

[v j stauffer]

I will add that Matt has been doing basically the same job for 20 years. Whether you like his style or not, he still brings it enthusiastically day after day and you have to give him credit for that.

A LOT of credit for that. Some would say. Hey he's being paid to be on TV. How tough can that be? I get that to a point. However, to still come across as though you're pumped about being there. Excited about a Tuesday off the turf card at Parx. And do it every time for 20 years is IMO very classy and impressive.

I've NEVER heard anyone at TVG say a bad word about Matt. He's never been anything but 100% gracious, helpful and professional with me.

Echo those exact sentiments from me about Mike Joyce.

[v j stauffer]

Its gonna be too late for Bunyaan... as his trainer told me that when he goes on the market soon, it will be "first come first serve."... He said they "USUALLY get reputable guys to buy the horse."

Doesn't sound too convincing.

As for the $$... The $1000 is not the problem. Its the vet costs that come with a sore fetlock joint. He likely has huge problems in his knees right now. As anyone with horses knows, the vet bills can really add up.

Vet bills add up if you're trying to keep a horse in training. Making him comfortable in his retirement is relatively inexpensive.

[ReplayRandall]

I had a good time with Dave Weaver at the NHC, earlier in the year, gambling side by side at the TI, while talking horses and life in general......Great guy.

[TrackingTVG]

Mike Joyce is VERY high on the list of "good guys ( and gals )" in racing.

Coming from you, Andy, that means absolutely nothing.

You, just like Mike, feel a sense of entitlement despite your selections and opinions being badly wrong. Didn't you, yourself, block the person on twitter just cause they were tracking your record? LMAO. Talk about not being able to face the music.

[TrackingTVG]

I had a good time with Dave Weaver at the NHC, earlier in the year, gambling side by side at the TI, while talking horses and life in general......Great guy.

Dave is pure class. As is Meghan Devine and Brittany Eurton. Hell, Paul Loduca was and always has been too. Its too bad he had to go associate himself with a longterm loser like Serling though.

[v j stauffer]

And Vic, if you werent posting picks in the summer/fall of 2017, I likely didn't track you.

The bottom line... most of your fellow co workers are trash when it comes to selections or any kind of knowledge.


Rich Perloff just posted a pick 4 ticket: 3 deep in every race.... the first race of the pick 4 were the 3 favorite betting selections. Absolutely horrible ticket structure.

Now you're switching from "they all suck" to "most". It seems like you've really got a ax to grind with everything TVG. Hope I haven't contributed to that.

Regarding knocking Rich's Pick 4. What if he has 3 favorites to start the sequence and many long shots in the subsequent 3 legs? That wouldn't be horrible ticket structure.

IMO Rich does a damn good job not only trying to keep people in action and alive. He puts his heart and soul into his Monday & Tuesday shifts.

Uses a lot of time trying to teach the intricacies of how he arrives on the horses he likes.

I can tell you from having sat in that chair myself. It's a personal choice to go the extra mile and try to present quality programming.

He could just phone it in, read back the Racing Form, but he doesn't. He tries to offer solid content every shift.

Rich, like Matt, is also a TVG lifer. And one hell of a Thespian.:popcorn:

[v j stauffer]

I had a good time with Dave Weaver at the NHC, earlier in the year, gambling side by side at the TI, while talking horses and life in general......Great guy.

"Dream" Weaver. Many people say the TVG hosts aren't horse players just like the rest of us. Dave perhaps more so than anybody belies that statement. He's in the trenches, firing away at the windows, with as much passion as any other, card carrying, broken down horse player.

I've seen Dave at several tournaments, big money tourneys, as well as the NHC.

At the NHC they put me in a off room way back in the corner every year Randall. :rant:

[v j stauffer]

Coming from you, Andy, that means absolutely nothing.

You, just like Mike, feel a sense of entitlement despite your selections and opinions being badly wrong. Didn't you, yourself, block the person on twitter just cause they were tracking your record? LMAO. Talk about not being able to face the music.

Is there anybody you DON'T hate?

Not trying to be overly critical but sheesh.

Do we know each other?

I have an idea who you are. But it's just a guess.

Send me a PM. I will respect your privacy with the rest of the Forum.

[the little guy]

Coming from you, Andy, that means absolutely nothing.

You, just like Mike, feel a sense of entitlement despite your selections and opinions being badly wrong. Didn't you, yourself, block the person on twitter just cause they were tracking your record? LMAO. Talk about not being able to face the music.

The opinion here that means nothing is yours. You have zero credibility. I am comfortable with mine and my contributions to the game, both in general and on a daily basis. How you and your pathetic pals choose to evaluate me is of zero interest to me other than occasional comic relief.

The very idea that you believe you have the right to tell others how to behave is utterly laughable. You don't actually know me, or Mike Joyce, or anybody really, yet somehow think you are entitled to judge us. Good luck with that.

The internet gave you a supposed voice. That doesn't automatically make it one of value.

[PaceAdvantage]

I agree...clown show over

[Poindexter]

Seems like it would take very little effort for TVG and NYRA and every other source of public handicappers, to track a handicappers performance. Why would anybody that is providing picks for the public, not want their picks tracked? The answer is sort of obvious. Most of the so called experts will not look so expert if you look at their long term roi. Seems to me if TVG is going to have hosts check marking horses and giving out pick 4's, I should be able to have acces to that person's record, whether in the last 30 days, last 6 months, all time...

[v j stauffer]

I agree...clown show over

Did I miss something? We're there posts deleted?

I was busy watching someone named A. Salgado almost kill himself and his horse by running up on heels and flat out dropping himself in a race at Parx. Very scary.

[v j stauffer]

Seems like it would take very little effort for TVG and NYRA and every other source of public handicappers, to track a handicappers performance. Why would anybody that is providing picks for the public, not want their picks tracked? The answer is sort of obvious. Most of the so called experts will not look so expert if you look at their long term roi. Seems to me if TVG is going to have hosts check marking horses and giving out pick 4's, I should be able to have acces to that person's record, whether in the last 30 days, last 6 months, all time...

There's some merit to what you're saying. I have ZERO problem with anybody tracking my plays.

However, please consider this.

TVG hosts don't get to pick and choose what tracks they cover. Sometimes we are forced to handicap and provide plays for a track that we have little or no local feel for. That makes grinding out a profit much much more difficult.

Any player would have better figures if they could make only spot plays at their favorite track.

When we're assigned a shift covering a less familiar track we are still duty bound to roll up our sleeves and try to come up with something live.

Sometimes it's very hard to make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

We do our very best. But you must agree and understand it's going to adversely impact our total ROI. :pout:

[ReplayRandall]

There's some merit to what you're saying. I have ZERO problem with anybody tracking my plays.

However, please consider this.

TVG hosts don't get to pick and choose what tracks they cover. Sometimes we are forced to handicap and provide plays for a track that we have little or no local feel for. That makes grinding out a profit much much more difficult.

Any player would have better figures if they could make only spot plays at their favorite track.

When we're assigned a shift covering a less familiar track we are still duty bound to roll up our sleeves and try to come up with something live.

Sometimes it's very hard to make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

We do our very best. But you must agree and understand it's going to adversely impact our total ROI. :pout:

Are you only allowed to produce "caveman" tickets all the time?....How about showing multi-tickets with some of your keys? And why are you limited by what you can "mythically" wager, such as $40-60 max?....TVG always looking for the small player to be involved, I guess.

[Poindexter]

There's some merit to what you're saying. I have ZERO problem with anybody tracking my plays.

However, please consider this.

TVG hosts don't get to pick and choose what tracks they cover. Sometimes we are forced to handicap and provide plays for a track that we have little or no local feel for. That makes grinding out a profit much much more difficult.

Any player would have better figures if they could make only spot plays at their favorite track.

When we're assigned a shift covering a less familiar track we are still duty bound to roll up our sleeves and try to come up with something live.

Sometimes it's very hard to make chicken soup out of chicken shit.

We do our very best. But you must agree and understand it's going to adversely impact our total ROI. :pout:

Fair enough, but part of the search mechanism can be by track as well. So while you may be up 5% on your check marks for Belmont, you might be down 15% at Finger Lakes and 30% at Hawthorne.. All that should be decipherable. Seasoned horseplayers know how hard it is to show a positive roi when playing every race. This is just a way for the public to handicap cappers to see whose opinion is of more value than someone elses. IF you have a .85 return on your check marks and capper x has a .65% roi on his check marks, should that info not be made available to the public? I also suggest that plays be rated as strong, regular or action and the roi on each should be seperated. So my search might be for Vic Stauffer, Belmont, Last 6 Months, and te results would be displayed,

Strong 15 plays 6 wins +21% roi
Regular 98 plays 27 wins +7% roi
Action 198 plays 40 wins -21% roi

That gives the public all the info they need to make informed decision about handicappers. If they wanted to they could add dirt/turf, sprint/route to the filters as well.

Imo there is no reason no to provide the public this information. If the public is going to listen to hosts give their handicapping theories for hour at a time, shouldn't they at least have access to how good a handicapper that host is?

[turfnsport]

Seems like it would take very little effort for TVG and NYRA and every other source of public handicappers, to track a handicappers performance. Why would anybody that is providing picks for the public, not want their picks tracked? The answer is sort of obvious. Most of the so called experts will not look so expert if you look at their long term roi. Seems to me if TVG is going to have hosts check marking horses and giving out pick 4's, I should be able to have acces to that person's record, whether in the last 30 days, last 6 months, all time...

A horseplayer has his Pick 5 ticket made out and then watches someone like Andy Serling talk about a vulnerable favorite in one of the legs that raced against the bias or on a golden rail and said horseplayer restructures his ticket using that info and hits a nice Pick 5 because of that info. Do you think that horseplayer will care whether Andy went 1 for 9 or 5 for 9 with his picks that day?

It's not all about PICKS. it's about INFORMATION.

[Poindexter]

A horseplayer has his Pick 5 ticket made out and then watches someone like Andy Serling talk about a vulnerable favorite in one of the legs that raced against the bias or on a golden rail and said horseplayer restructures his ticket using that info and hits a nice Pick 5 because of that info. Do you think that horseplayer will care whether Andy went 1 for 9 or 5 for 9 with his picks that day?

It's not all about PICKS. it's about INFORMATION.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Who is asking Andy Serling not to say a favorite is vulnerable because he took advantage of a golden rail? I simply want him and every other handicapper to have their picks tracked so the public has and idea of what they are capable of. This has nothing to do with their abilities to host a show and both educate and entertain the public. One has nothing to do with the other. I feel that it their long term records and roi is basic information that should be provided to the public, good or bad. Not suggesting that the host be replaced because their record sucks either. It is just additional information that I believe should be provided. But if a handicapper is only getting back 50 cents on the dollar long term and he is providing me his worlds of wisdom, I would like to know those pearls are likely not worth much.

[turfnsport]

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? Who is asking Andy Serling not to say a favorite is vulnerable because he took advantage of a golden rail? I simply want him and every other handicapper to have their picks tracked so the public has and idea of what they are capable of. This has nothing to do with their abilities to host a show and both educate and entertain the public. One has nothing to do with the other. I feel that it their long term records and roi is basic information that should be provided to the public, good or bad. Not suggesting that the host be replaced because their record sucks either. It is just additional information that I believe should be provided. But if a handicapper is only getting back 50 cents on the dollar long term and he is providing me his worlds of wisdom, I would like to know those pearls are likely not worth much.

If it's that important to you track them yourself. Problem solved.

My point, which you did not seem to comprehend, is that a handicappers value is not just based on how many top winners he picks. In this day and age of Pick 4 and Pick 5's, nobody gives a crap about a handicappers ROI with his top picks anymore.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did I miss something? We're there posts deleted?No posts were deleted.

[AndyC]

....Imo there is no reason no to provide the public this information. If the public is going to listen to hosts give their handicapping theories for hour at a time, shouldn't they at least have access to how good a handicapper that host is?

Posting results can also be misleading. A huge P-4 win on the first day of the meet might mean a positive ROI for the entire meet. A casual watcher might tune in one day and see a positive ROI and bet based on that info alone.

I believe that the best thing a host can do is provide information. Bad break, traffic trouble, bore in bore out, didn't change leads, etc. If good information can be disseminated by the host then why should anybody care about an ROI.

[v j stauffer]

Are you only allowed to produce "caveman" tickets all the time?....How about showing multi-tickets with some of your keys? And why are you limited by what you can "mythically" wager, such as $40-60 max?....TVG always looking for the small player to be involved, I guess.

Forgive me but what is a caveman ticket? When I first started I asked about putting in tickets that were larger the $50.00. I was told a $50.00 bet for the average player is a massive bet. I've come to find out that is very true. We don't want to crush out players' bankrolls if we go on a cold streak.

[v j stauffer]

I agree...clown show over

I asked if I missed something because of this statement about the clown show being over. I didn't understand that.

[v j stauffer]

Posting results can also be misleading. A huge P-4 win on the first day of the meet might mean a positive ROI for the entire meet. A casual watcher might tune in one day and see a positive ROI and bet based on that info alone.

I believe that the best thing a host can do is provide information. Bad break, traffic trouble, bore in bore out, didn't change leads, etc. If good information can be disseminated by the host then why should anybody care about an ROI.

Strong post.

[PaceAdvantage]

I asked if I missed something because of this statement about the clown show being over. I didn't understand that.And I answered you that no posts were deleted.

[v j stauffer]

And I answered you that no posts were deleted.

Why are trolling me? I've tried to be a productive respectful member of the forum since my return.

If you want to re-ban me. Go ahead. If not then please stop busting my balls over petty bull-shit.

[Poindexter]

If it's that important to you track them yourself. Problem solved.

My point, which you did not seem to comprehend, is that a handicappers value is not just based on how many top winners he picks. In this day and age of Pick 4 and Pick 5's, nobody gives a crap about a handicappers ROI with his top picks anymore.

My point, which you don't seem to comprehend, is that a cappers opinions, is only as valuable as his talents as a capper. Since the information provided is a check mark(top pick) and pick 4's picks, then the only way for anyone to measure how good a capper they are is to look at the roi on each. It is the only unbiased measure. Any blowhard can whistle dixie about how they are Gods gift to the handicapping world, and use any kind of lingo they want, but their expertise can only be gauged one way. How do their picks perform? There is no getting around it. You cannot tell me capper b is a great handicapper if his top pick is losing 30% a year. Just not possible.

If nobody cares then nobody will look at their records and there is nothing to worry about it. So why not give the public access to their record. The answer is obvious. In most instances their records suck and their expert status will be put in serious doubt. Otherwise TVG and everyone else would have been doing this for years and touting how great, capper x and capper y and capper z are. Because what can be better for handle then spotlighting that capper y has generated a +25% pick 4 roi over his lifetime, or Capper Z has a +20% roi on his top pick over the last year? I guess there just aint too many capper y's and capper z's out there.

I get it, this sport is brutally tough But I do think if you are going to claim someone is an '"expert", it is nice to actually provide some kind of evidence that they are indeed experts. Of course if there is no evidence to provide you stick with the status qo and fool whoever you can.

[ultracapper]

Matt actually ran his own show on TVG about three years ago.

I think the perfect co-host would be Simon who gives insight into breeding.
and/or Dave Weaver who provides picks based on the sheets.

58 flat. It was a pretty decent show, though it was early in the day and all NY and FLA racing.

He's pretty consistent in that he does tout value.

[ultracapper]

He does have great hair.

Ha!! I remember one day a couple years ago when he was saying how lucky his teenage daughter is that she has a good looking dad who's hip and knows how to dance.

I kid you not. He went there..........on national TV.

Maybe he was sauced????

[turfnsport]

Ha!! I remember one day a couple years ago when he was saying how lucky his teenage daughter is that she has a good looking dad who's hip and knows how to dance.

I kid you not. He went there..........on national TV.

Maybe he was sauced????

Matt is known to say silly stuff looking for a laugh. I have been watching TVG
since day one and at NO time did I ever think he was "sauced"...Now I'd bet a few bucks if you looked in the bottom drawer of his desk you might find a couple of empty cans of this stuff:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/resizer/FFtXHSI5KdKhVZ0-oZ2nIy9EhgM=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/arc-anglerfish-tgam-prod-tgam.s3.amazonaws.com/public/5T2VMHCGYFAOJNRBOHOR5W3K2M

[thaskalos]

My point, which you don't seem to comprehend, is that a cappers opinions, is only as valuable as his talents as a capper. Since the information provided is a check mark(top pick) and pick 4's picks, then the only way for anyone to measure how good a capper they are is to look at the roi on each. It is the only unbiased measure. Any blowhard can whistle dixie about how they are Gods gift to the handicapping world, and use any kind of lingo they want, but their expertise can only be gauged one way. How do their picks perform? There is no getting around it. You cannot tell me capper b is a great handicapper if his top pick is losing 30% a year. Just not possible.

If nobody cares then nobody will look at their records and there is nothing to worry about it. So why not give the public access to their record. The answer is obvious. In most instances their records suck and their expert status will be put in serious doubt. Otherwise TVG and everyone else would have been doing this for years and touting how great, capper x and capper y and capper z are. Because what can be better for handle then spotlighting that capper y has generated a +25% pick 4 roi over his lifetime, or Capper Z has a +20% roi on his top pick over the last year? I guess there just aint too many capper y's and capper z's out there.

I get it, this sport is brutally tough But I do think if you are going to claim someone is an '"expert", it is nice to actually provide some kind of evidence that they are indeed experts. Of course if there is no evidence to provide you stick with the status qo and fool whoever you can.

TVG isn't in the "customer service" business. Their only concern is to get the unsophisticated fan into the betting pools in any way that they can...and, if they do what you suggest, that will undermine their efforts to get as many people as possible to bet...because most of their hosts will be revealed as the total incompetents that they are.

Have you ever asked yourself why they pitch as many horizontal bets as they do? IMO...it's because you can look pretty dumb pretty quickly when you bet strictly to win...whereas the horizontals keep you in the action a lot longer...thus keeping the suspense going until the latter stages of the bet. You spread by using 3 horses in the first race...you "buy" the second race...and you find yourself half-way through the pick-4, without offering a single handicapping opinion...or allowing anyone to find out how clueless of a handicapper you are. When you bet WIN...you lose race after race...and people write you off as an "expert" in short order.

If TVG published their hosts ROI...then their telecast would be relegated to the comedy channel.

[ultracapper]

I was just funnin' about the sauced. I'm sure he wasn't. But he had me and my brother-in-law rolling on the floor, because he seemed pretty serious about it all.

Over all I like the guy from where I stand. We all get whacked now and then. He got whack that day. It was uncomfortable, but damn funny.

[v j stauffer]

My point, which you don't seem to comprehend, is that a cappers opinions, is only as valuable as his talents as a capper. Since the information provided is a check mark(top pick) and pick 4's picks, then the only way for anyone to measure how good a capper they are is to look at the roi on each. It is the only unbiased measure. Any blowhard can whistle dixie about how they are Gods gift to the handicapping world, and use any kind of lingo they want, but their expertise can only be gauged one way. How do their picks perform? There is no getting around it. You cannot tell me capper b is a great handicapper if his top pick is losing 30% a year. Just not possible.

If nobody cares then nobody will look at their records and there is nothing to worry about it. So why not give the public access to their record. The answer is obvious. In most instances their records suck and their expert status will be put in serious doubt. Otherwise TVG and everyone else would have been doing this for years and touting how great, capper x and capper y and capper z are. Because what can be better for handle then spotlighting that capper y has generated a +25% pick 4 roi over his lifetime, or Capper Z has a +20% roi on his top pick over the last year? I guess there just aint too many capper y's and capper z's out there.

I get it, this sport is brutally tough But I do think if you are going to claim someone is an '"expert", it is nice to actually provide some kind of evidence that they are indeed experts. Of course if there is no evidence to provide you stick with the status qo and fool whoever you can.

If your top pick is hitting at 30% you're most likely losing. I doubt I'm at 20%. But I'm picking the right kind of plays.

[v j stauffer]

I was just funnin' about the sauced. I'm sure he wasn't. But he had me and my brother-in-law rolling on the floor, because he seemed pretty serious about it all.

Over all I like the guy from where I stand. We all get whacked now and then. He got whack that day. It was uncomfortable, but damn funny.

I once did a shift with Tom Cassidy where I wasn't drunk but I was OUT OF IT :eek:big time.

My wife would always put two Altoids in my shirt pocket. I always tried to be respectful of my partner. Nothing worse than 4 hours of bad breath. :puke:

So I reached into my pocket during a break and popped them both into my mouth. We where coming back out of a break. I only had a few second so I quickly chewed and swallowed them both.

Wow. Something wasn't right. They tasted terrible. Could an Altoid go stale?

Turns out she doesn't know how it happened but instead of the mints she accidentally put two percocet's in my pocket. They actually look very similar.

About 20 minutes later I was just staring at the screen and smiling at Tom.

Oh. " look at the pretty horses " :cool:

[coachv30]

I think everyone here is stating the obvious, the experts on TVG are wrong more times than they are right. This goes for their checkmarks, pick 4's pick 5's, etc.....But I would venture to say that so are all of us.

I just think people are taking it to heart and getting rubbed the wrong way because these guys are being deemed as experts. However, I don't see why the network can't hold them to their expertise and keep a ROI on them like they do with the NFL panel and their weekly picks. Add some fun and competition to the broadcasts.

[coachv30]

I once did a shift with Tom Cassidy where I wasn't drunk but I was OUT OF IT :eek:big time.

My wife would always put two Altoids in my shirt pocket. I always tried to be respectful of my partner. Nothing worse than 4 hours of bad breath. :puke:

So I reached into my pocket during a break and popped them both into my mouth. We where coming back out of a break. I only had a few second so I quickly chewed and swallowed them both.

Wow. Something wasn't right. They tasted terrible. Could an Altoid go stale?

Turns out she doesn't know how it happened but instead of the mints she accidentally put two percocet's in my pocket. They actually look very similar.

About 20 minutes later I was just staring at the screen and smiling at Tom.

Oh. " look at the pretty horses " :cool:


:D Great story!!

[metro]

I don't see why the network can't hold them to their expertise and keep a ROI on them like they do with the NFL panel and their weekly picks. Add some fun and competition to the broadcasts.

That would probably mean more work than it would seem to entail.

I'm far from a TVG apologist as I've posted some of my thoughts about them either in this thread or in others. One thing I wouldn't hold them accountable for though is their ROI or any form of it.

Handicapping is all about variables and plenty of variables can occur from when one of their analysts submit their on-air picks and the races are actually run. Those that feel the need to moan about the ROI of TVG analysts I would suggest they post their picks along side those of the TVG ones and let everyone see the results. Would imagine they wouldn't differ much unless you are going up against a commentator like Mike Joyce and not someone more capable like a Simon Bray, or our fellow poster Vic Stauffer.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why are trolling me? I've tried to be a productive respectful member of the forum since my return.

If you want to re-ban me. Go ahead. If not then please stop busting my balls over petty bull-shit.Ok then.

Back to reality. My clown show comment:

a) had NOTHING to do with you
b) but you made it about YOU
c) typical

How's that for a troll?

IF YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION, YOU WOULD SEE MY CLOWN SHOW REPLY WAS TO thelittleguy, and HIS REPLY TO WAS SOMEONE ELSE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU

Thank me very much.

[biggestal99]

I get my TVG2 on Roku. Perhaps others know if there are other ways.


Verizon FIOS has TVG2



Always happy when Vic is on. :-)


when he got hired I did a happy dance.



Allan

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I had a good time with Dave Weaver at the NHC, earlier in the year, gambling side by side at the TI, while talking horses and life in general......Great guy.

I didn't realize you played in the NHC this year. How did you do?

[ReplayRandall]

I didn't realize you played in the NHC this year. How did you do?


I believe you did better than me, as we both didn't cash...:cool:

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I believe you did better than me, as we both didn't cash...:cool:

I was a nose away from finishing around 30th. The thing that got me steamed was that the horse was a sure winner at (23-1). He burst through at the 16th pole, realized no horse was in front of him and he just downshifted enough to get caught on the wire. Took me a while to deal with that one.

I'm 50-50 on trying to qualify for 2019. I've played in four contests and finished in the top 20% each time. I realized that if you want to be a tournament player you have to shift your thinking about which horse to play, and develop some familiarity with tracks you might not normally play.

[thaskalos]

IMO...a gambler lives longer if he doesn't participate in those types of tournaments. In horseracing OR poker.

[ReplayRandall]

I was a nose away from finishing around 30th. The thing that got me steamed was that the horse was a sure winner at (23-1). He burst through at the 16th pole, realized no horse was in front of him and he just downshifted enough to get caught on the wire. Took me a while to deal with that one.

I'm 50-50 on trying to qualify for 2019. I've played in four contests and finished in the top 20% each time. I realized that if you want to be a tournament player you have to shift your thinking about which horse to play, and develop some familiarity with tracks you might not normally play.


I had 3 bombs at the NHC, who all had the lead with less than a 1/16 to go, get caught and finish 2nd...….I know how it goes, my friend.

[ReplayRandall]

IMO...a gambler lives longer if he doesn't participate in those types of tournaments. In horseracing OR poker.


And how do you know this?....From a book?

[v j stauffer]

Ok then.

Back to reality. My clown show comment:

a) had NOTHING to do with you
b) but you made it about YOU
c) typical

How's that for a troll?

IF YOU WERE PAYING ATTENTION, YOU WOULD SEE MY CLOWN SHOW REPLY WAS TO thelittleguy, and HIS REPLY TO WAS SOMEONE ELSE AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU

Thank me very much.

You always get the last word and explanation.

You're always right.

I'm comfortable with that.

[v j stauffer]

I didn't realize you played in the NHC this year. How did you do?

Also ran.

[thaskalos]

And how do you know this?....From a book?

No...the books are for the gamblers in Charlotte. In Vegas...we see these things up-close.

[ReplayRandall]

No...the books are for the gamblers in Charlotte. In Vegas...we see these things up-close.

When was the last time you played in the NHC?....or The WSOP?

[ReplayRandall]

When was the last time you played in the NHC?....or The WSOP?


Look Gus, maybe you had pieces of players in both events and had a major sweat going, I don't know.....It's one thing to have a piece of the action, and another to be "in the action".

[thaskalos]

Look Gus, maybe you had pieces of players in both events and had a major sweat going, I don't know.....It's one thing to have a piece of the action, and another to be "in the action".

Yes, Randall...I've had pieces of players who have played there. And I was able to buy those pieces of them because they weren't able to keep all their pieces to themselves. And, NO...it wasn't because they were trying to "control the variance"...as the saying usually goes. These were BROKEN MEN...who couldn't get off the tournament trail even when it became obvious to them that they didn't belong there. And I got to see their ordeal up-close, and personal.

The dream of the "big score" can be exhilarating for some...but it can become a nightmare for others. And I, personally...no longer want any part of it.

[v j stauffer]

When was the last time you played in the NHC?....or The WSOP?

I have played in multiple editions of both the NHC and WSOP. While both exciting and fun events.

Neither has anything to do with being a day to day winning horse or poker player.

[ReplayRandall]

When was the last time you played in the NHC?....or The WSOP?

Yes, Randall...I've had pieces of players who have played there. And I was able to buy those pieces of them because they weren't able to keep all their pieces to themselves. And, NO...it wasn't because they were trying to "control the variance"...as the saying usually goes. These were BROKEN MEN...who couldn't get off the tournament trail even when it became obvious to them that they didn't belong there. And I got to see their ordeal up-close, and personal.

The dream of the "big score" can be exhilarating for some...but it can become a nightmare for others. And I, personally...no longer want any part of it.


Good post, not for the faint of heart....:ThmbUp:

[kingfin66]

I once did a shift with Tom Cassidy where I wasn't drunk but I was OUT OF IT :eek:big time.

My wife would always put two Altoids in my shirt pocket. I always tried to be respectful of my partner. Nothing worse than 4 hours of bad breath. :puke:

So I reached into my pocket during a break and popped them both into my mouth. We where coming back out of a break. I only had a few second so I quickly chewed and swallowed them both.

Wow. Something wasn't right. They tasted terrible. Could an Altoid go stale?

Turns out she doesn't know how it happened but instead of the mints she accidentally put two percocet's in my pocket. They actually look very similar.

About 20 minutes later I was just staring at the screen and smiling at Tom.

Oh. " look at the pretty horses " :cool:

Yeah, but Altoids come in a tin and meds come in a bottle, so...

You mixing the percs with the curiously strong mints?

[ultracapper]

So, did chewed up percocet, beyond making you not give a damn if it did or not, do anything for your breath?

Lucky for you Tom's able to carry a show.

[v j stauffer]

Yeah, but Altoids come in a tin and meds come in a bottle, so...

You mixing the percs with the curiously strong mints?

I don't know how they got mixed up.

[v j stauffer]

And Vic, if you werent posting picks in the summer/fall of 2017, I likely didn't track you.

The bottom line... most of your fellow co workers are trash when it comes to selections or any kind of knowledge.


Rich Perloff just posted a pick 4 ticket: 3 deep in every race.... the first race of the pick 4 were the 3 favorite betting selections. Absolutely horrible ticket structure.

Today's TRACKING

12 check marks.................7 winners $24.00 bet $42.00 collected

3 Pick 4's ........................ $66.00 bet $177.00 collected

[jimmyb]

Today's TRACKING

12 check marks.................7 winners $24.00 bet $42.00 collected

3 Pick 4's ........................ $66.00 bet $177.00 collected:ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

Tracking, Here's the play. Wait a day or two. A new page will eventually start. Then you can come on and say more slanderous and evil things about Matt or Mike or Brittany or Christina. Someone.

Forget about the fact I picked a couple winners. Who cares?

Don't have to even act like you saw.

Be patient you'll get to be hateful soon enough.

Looking forward.

[metro]

Not taking a side because, again, I know it's not easy just putting together a horizontal wager on a budget and having any real chance of hitting.

But what gets me is the flippant commentary that sometimes comes out of the experts mouths. Perloff just saw his 2-5 Pic 5 single get ran down at the wire and his first words were...."not a particular comfortable trip for Mo Cash." Huh? He had basically the exact trip he had gotten in his previous race! Which was a perfect outside stalking trip, just like he got today!

Not redboarding because I didn't have the winner (I keyed Mr. Jordan 1st and 2nd) but anyone betting 2-5 on a horse trying to do something he had not done previously (stretching out to a mile) is not the recipe for success. Guess Rich left his toolbox at home today.

[coachv30]

This game is a difficult one for everyone who plays it. They are under a microscope by a lot of viewers. I don't think they deserve to be bashed when wrong. However...it's those who come on the set with an attitude like...

"I studied this card top to bottom last night and do I have some plays for you!!"

"I am so confident in a few of these races that I even had to play a P6 ticket today and you will see it later"

True experts will remain humble AFTER their selection wins ( I see it a lot on there). However, some can't even be humble before the race even goes off.

When you are in the spotlight like they are, the first phrase that needs to be avoided is "There's no way this horse can/should lose today".

[Tom]

Other than Andy Serling, I can't imagine giving a good crap what any other handicapper thinks.

And even then, I use the info he give to supplement my handicapping.

But you know they have to make picks in every race, and they will not like every race, so what good is tracking them?

And if you are not playing P6 tickets, I should suggest you not listen to anyone at all. P6 is nothing like win betting.

[ultracapper]

This game is a difficult one for everyone who plays it. They are under a microscope by a lot of viewers. I don't think they deserve to be bashed when wrong. However...it's those who come on the set with an attitude like...

"I studied this card top to bottom last night and do I have some plays for you!!"

"I am so confident in a few of these races that I even had to play a P6 ticket today and you will see it later"

True experts will remain humble AFTER their selection wins ( I see it a lot on there). However, some can't even be humble before the race even goes off.

When you are in the spotlight like they are, the first phrase that needs to be avoided is "There's no way this horse can/should lose today".

The gal at Santa Anita yesterday couldn't get out of her own way concerning Kershaw in one of the later races. Big odds-on favorite was never even a factor. I don't know what happened as I didn't see the entire race, just the stretch run in the recaps, but he didn't run as she expected.

I don't know the answer to all this. These TV guys and gals have to do their job, which is giving out choices. Maybe tone down on the "can't misses" a little, particularly when they don't offer any opportunity, such as this particular choice yesterday.

[v j stauffer]

Today's TRACKING

12 check marks.................7 winners $24.00 bet $42.00 collected

3 Pick 4's ........................ $66.00 bet $177.00 collected

SATURDAYS TRACKING

20 Check Marks..........5 winners $40.00 bet $51.00 collected

4 Pick 4's............$178 bet...............$302.00 collected (hit early and late pick 4 at CD)

[Helles]

Nice work, Vic. :ThmbUp:

[JimG]

2 random thoughts:

1) I still remember the first time I saw TVG (around 1999 or 2000, I think) on a television in my home. Thought I had died and gone to heaven. Hard for me to talk crap on TVG because of this. I would not want to have to provide public picks for all races at any tracks, much less some of the tracks they carry,

2) I qualified 2 out of the 3 years attempted for the NHC and had a blast. Stopped doing it once they stopped providing a decent accounting for what they were taking in compared to what was being paid out.

Jim

[v j stauffer]

2 random thoughts:

1) I still remember the first time I saw TVG (around 1999 or 2000, I think) on a television in my home. Thought I had died and gone to heaven. Hard for me to talk crap on TVG because of this. I would not want to have to provide public picks for all races at any tracks, much less some of the tracks they carry,

2) I qualified 2 out of the 3 years attempted for the NHC and had a blast. Stopped doing it once they stopped providing a decent accounting for what they were taking in compared to what was being paid out.

Jim

Sharp, insightful post. :ThmbUp:

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I have nothing really bad to say about Carothers. I think he overemphasizes early speed in his selections, making his handicapping less than what it could be, but he is a lot more tolerable than Schrupp.

I remember when one of the other personalities called Carothers the best handicapper (I think in the country) for the NYRA tracks. I don't remember Carothers sheepishly going, "Aw shucks, I'm just one of a group of handicappers who understand the NYRA tracks."

[v j stauffer]

SATURDAYS TRACKING

20 Check Marks..........5 winners $40.00 bet $51.00 collected

4 Pick 4's............$178 bet...............$302.00 collected (hit early and late pick 4 at CD)

SUNDAYS TRACKING 12 Check Marks 5 winners $24.00 bet........$54.00 collected.

Pick 4's $96.00 bet............$0 collected

[Inner Dirt]

In defense of people on TVG trying to pick races and I haven't watched them in years, doing old school handicapping with making my own pace figures, it can take 4-6 hours to do a thorough job handicapping a card. If they have to make picks on multiple cards a day they are going to have to take short cuts, I am pretty sure many of those selections are made quickly on the fly.


As for the personalities I remember liking Nick Hines a lot, considered Rich Perloff a condescending jerk (he used to take a lot of calls and talked down to the callers constantly). I found Bob Baedeker annoying as he seemed like a tip sheet tout, he would go on and on after a race if he picked a winner, but never mentioned what happened if he lost, quickly moving on.


Like I said, probably haven't watched TVG since I left California in 2010.

[jahura2]

Other than Andy Serling, I can't imagine giving a good crap what any other handicapper thinks.

And even then, I use the info he give to supplement my handicapping.

.

This almost sums up my entire approach to public handicappers. I would have to add David Aragona to the short list with Andy. Between the two of them I get a lot of information useful in betting NYRA races.

[cato]

Amen, JimG !

[v j stauffer]

If I made my selections for Belmont and Santa Anita available for purchase do you think there would be a market?

[GMB@BP]

If I made my selections for Belmont and Santa Anita available for purchase do you think there would be a market?

no

sorry

[cj]

This almost sums up my entire approach to public handicappers. I would have to add David Aragona to the short list with Andy. Between the two of them I get a lot of information useful in betting NYRA races.

David had a stellar day yesterday.

[castaway01]

If I made my selections for Belmont and Santa Anita available for purchase do you think there would be a market?

You'd have a better chance of getting a track to pay you to post your handicapping advice/picks on their website, though knowing how things go that would probably just be an additional duty they'd tack on wherever you were calling races rather than something you'd get paid more for.

[Suff]

This almost sums up my entire approach to public handicappers. I would have to add David Aragona to the short list with Andy. Between the two of them I get a lot of information useful in betting NYRA races.


I watch TVG maybe 2 hours a week. I couldn't name any of them, or pick them out of a line up. Its the general Horse chitter and chatter that I enjoy in the background when I play..

They're all good , most of them have been there forever, and I appreciate what they do. To do what they do is not easy at all.

The best guest they ever had was me, 15 years ago. I put them on the Map:lol:.

As far as picks..who needs other peoples picks when you have BB & W?

I was badly traumatized :)by west coast racing. Russel Baze riding glorified quarter horses on Ice at Bay Meadows. I turned away from the west coast and never went back.

Andy Serling is my go-to. I listen closely to him. Andy is selective who he has on so his guest's get a running start with me too.

[Suff]

Footnote: To much of a good thing having industry people here. All they do is lurk and Peacock themselves at any chance.

[v j stauffer]

Footnote: To much of a good thing having industry people here. All they do is lurk and Peacock themselves at any chance.

I don't lurk. I don't Peacock.

[Suff]

I don't lurk. I don't Peacock.

Didn't mean to precisely include you at all. I saw you on an interview and thought you were a pretty sharp horse player. That's all I need , that's the only test I give.

The other stuff you get down with, cat fights, twitter feuds, that's boring and strange to me. But as a horse player I give you props.

[thaskalos]

I, personally, would love it if MORE "industry people" posted here...even if they mostly "Peacocked" themselves. It could only add to the interest generated by our discussions...IMO.

[Suff]

I, personally, would love it if MORE "industry people" posted here...even if they mostly "Peacocked" themselves. It could only add to the interest generated by our discussions...IMO.

Its not like it can be controlled anyway right? We'd need a doorman checking credentials... :)

Its all good. I'm not invested in my own opinion at all. Just jabbering.

Frontsiders are the only people at the racetrack not being paid to be there. And traditionally, old days, Frontsiders kept a distance from backsiders and vis versa. It was culture I guess. Circled in the same orbit but not touching.

You can hurt a trainer talking shit about his horses.
You hurt a gambler by talking shit about his bets.

Also, I hate to think the beautiful sweet likes of Gaby Gaudet and Maggie Wolfendale would see some of my off color remarks. Frontsiders misbehave. Sorry girls.

[Andy Asaro]

I, personally, would love it if MORE "industry people" posted here...even if they mostly "Peacocked" themselves. It could only add to the interest generated by our discussions...IMO.

No upside to it and it could end up costing them their jobs. That's why most don't

[sour grapes]

No upside to it and it could end up costing them their jobs. That's why most don't

thats not true ,ive seen guys like vic and peter berry posting without losing their jobs.

[Tom]

Its not like it can be controlled anyway right? We'd need a doorman checking credentials...

Well YOU would have to be our "greeter."
Who knows more race track people than YOU do? :D

[Suff]

Well YOU would have to be our "greeter."
Who knows more race track people than YOU do? :D

Nah.. If you sat me down and quizzed me I'd fail every time. I know 50% of a 100 things, rather than 100% of 50 things.

I animate my experience as part of my general overall enthusiasm for the sport. I would defer to others for sound advice on reality. I'm an amauter.

How my personality plays on a message board is mostly entertainment.
Talking to anybody in racing, I am usually saying over and over in my head.."don't say anything stupid"

[v j stauffer]

Tracking, Here's the play. Wait a day or two. A new page will eventually start. Then you can come on and say more slanderous and evil things about Matt or Mike or Brittany or Christina. Someone.

Forget about the fact I picked a couple winners. Who cares?

Don't have to even act like you saw.

Be patient you'll get to be hateful soon enough.

Looking forward.

Well this should hold me for a few weeks and hopefully continue with your silence.

Played 2 pick 4's and one pick 5 on the air today. Total investment $134.00

Hit the Remington Pick 5. 4 out of 5 paid $2300!!!.

You're right. We at TVG are just trying to bilk your money and can't possibly show a positive ROI.

Thinking more about your words in this thread. :puke::puke:

[SharpCat]

Well this should hold me for a few weeks and hopefully continue with your silence.

Played 2 pick 4's and one pick 5 on the air today. Total investment $134.00

Hit the Remington Pick 5. 4 out of 5 paid $2300!!!.

You're right. We at TVG are just trying to bilk your money and can't possibly show a positive ROI.

Thinking more about your words in this thread. :puke::puke:

This was your pick 5 ticket listed on the TVG website. Please explain how you hit 4 out of 5 :popcorn:

https://i.imgur.com/7pgjIs4.png

[SharpCat]

Here are the payoffs.

https://i.imgur.com/yE6Khie.png

[sour grapes]

looks like 3 out of 5.does that pay too?

[v j stauffer]

looks like 3 out of 5.does that pay too?

Not as Much. OMG. Somebody actually checked and was watching. It's totally worth it to get caught. BTW you cost me $50.00 I just lost to my producer.

Good catch.

I did have $11.00 and $20.00 check marks during the sequence.

That's pretty good?

[v j stauffer]

This was your pick 5 ticket listed on the TVG website. Please explain how you hit 4 out of 5 :popcorn:

https://i.imgur.com/7pgjIs4.png

THAT'S IT! My accountant is fired!:rip:

Don't you guys know not to trust what you read on the internet?

I did give a shout out to PA on last nights show. That's something.:pound:

I've been doing TVG for 19 years. Last night was the 1st time I did an entire shift without one Thoroughbred race being run.:bang:

[ultracapper]

OMG Vic. We need to know. Was that an honest mistake? Or were you trying to slip one by?

You're going to REALLY get something started here.

[v j stauffer]

OMG Vic. We need to know. Was that an honest mistake? Or were you trying to slip one by?

You're going to REALLY get something started here.

I was REALLY trying to mess with TRACKINGTVG. I thought I had it Ellis. But then I didn't have it.

Next time I hit a big one. I'll leave it off the thread and it will even out. :headbanger:

[ReplayRandall]

I was REALLY trying to mess with TRACKINGTVG. I thought I had it Ellis. But then I didn't have it.

Next time I hit a big one. I'll leave it off the thread and it will even out. :headbanger:


What's going on here, Vic?.....What do we got, a meds problem or a dosage issue?....Don't worry, it's just between us, since hardly anyone reads your posts....:p

[v j stauffer]

What's going on here, Vic?.....What do we got, a meds problem or a dosage issue?....Don't worry, it's just between us, since hardly anyone reads your posts....:p

Thanks Randall. I don't read them either. :headbanger:

[jimmyb]

What's going on here, Vic?.....What do we got, a meds problem or a dosage issue?....Don't worry, it's just between us, since hardly anyone reads your posts....:p

Those pesky little arctic altoids.

[ReplayRandall]

Those pesky little arctic altoids.


Vic's wife is at the studio dispensing again?....:pound::lol::pound:

[TJC]

I read them Vic, and enjoy them, for the most part.

TJC

[v j stauffer]

Vic's wife is at the studio dispensing again?....:pound::lol::pound:

AND my breath is bad. Can't win!!:puke:

[sour grapes]

you can get picks and snake oil from vic too.
he tried to pull a fast one while no one was checking.

[v j stauffer]

you can get picks and snake oil from vic too.
he tried to pull a fast one while no one was checking.

I hit one at Charles Town last night. Two horses I was alive to dead heated for the win and both Pick 4's paid $54.00 on a $40.00 ticket.

You should probably check it Columbo.

I also sell snake oil filters to keep your engine safe.:headbanger:

[Profesor]

[QUOTE=Tom;2377233]Other than Andy Serling, I can't imagine giving a good crap what any other handicapper thinks.

And even then, I use the info he give to supplement my handicapping.

The only 2 that I pay attention to are BRAD THOMAS and MIKE WELCH
all the rest I eliminate their picks to narrow down the field to the true contenders .

[v j stauffer]

[QUOTE=Tom;2377233]Other than Andy Serling, I can't imagine giving a good crap what any other handicapper thinks.

And even then, I use the info he give to supplement my handicapping.

The only 2 that I pay attention to are BRAD THOMAS and MIKE WELCH
all the rest I eliminate their picks to narrow down the field to the true contenders .
Ok. Here's a REAL one. All you Sherlock Holmes's can verify. Late Pick 4 Fresno. $36.00 ticket paid $387.00. AND my check mark top pick won the last 3 races cold. $8.80-$4.60-$30.00. Anybody interested in purchasing some snake oil?

[ReplayRandall]

[quote=Profesor;2383147]
Ok. Here's a REAL one. All you Sherlock Holmes's can verify. Late Pick 4 Fresno. $36.00 ticket paid $387.00. AND my check mark top pick won the last 3 races cold. $8.80-$4.60-$30.00. Anybody interested in purchasing some snake oil?


Sorry, but The Boy Who Cried Wolf = Nobody cares

[v j stauffer]

[quote=v j stauffer;2383226]


Sorry, but The Boy Who Cried Wolf = Nobody cares my TVG account cares. The people watched the show care. Why don't you find a nice freeway and go play in it. I got your Wolf right here.

[ReplayRandall]

my TVG account cares. The people watched the show care. Why don't you find a nice freeway and go play in it. I got your Wolf right here.

Goodbye Vic, you've got four flat tires and your street cred is NIL....:rip:

[SharpCat]

[quote=Profesor;2383147]
Ok. Here's a REAL one. All you Sherlock Holmes's can verify. Late Pick 4 Fresno. $36.00 ticket paid $387.00. AND my check mark top pick won the last 3 races cold. $8.80-$4.60-$30.00. Anybody interested in purchasing some snake oil?

Sherlock Holmes reporting as requested :coffee: Upon further investigation your ticket did cost 36.00 as #:9: was scratched in the 1st leg and it did pay $387.00. Alas the $30.00 winner of the last leg #:9: you claimed was you top pick was not in fact you top pick ;) 2 out of 3 ain't bad. The good news is you never had to sweat the final leg as you had the top 4 spots covered and caught your 2nd best price :headbanger:

https://i.imgur.com/oAlFLUy.png

[v j stauffer]

Goodbye Vic, you've got four flat tires and your street cred is NIL....:rip:

Who made you the master of street cred?

[v j stauffer]

[quote=v j stauffer;2383226]

Sherlock Holmes reporting as requested :coffee: Upon further investigation your ticket did cost 36.00 as #:9: was scratched in the 1st leg and it did pay $387.00. Alas the $30.00 winner of the last leg #:9: you claimed was you top pick was not in fact you top pick ;) 2 out of 3 ain't bad. The good news is you never had to sweat the final leg as you had the top 4 spots covered and caught your 2nd best price :headbanger:

https://i.imgur.com/oAlFLUy.png

Damn. I thought the :9: was my check mark? Why would I take the favorite when I had two longshots? Oh well. I was rushing out to get to the theatre. Thanks for posting the ticket. The :7: who was fairly flying at the end. Got beat a head and a nose and was paying $568. Oh well $387 is enough to keep the ROI in good shape for a few more shifts.

[sour grapes]

I hit one at Charles Town last night. Two horses I was alive to dead heated for the win and both Pick 4's paid $54.00 on a $40.00 ticket.

You should probably check it Columbo.

I also sell snake oil filters to keep your engine safe.:headbanger:

so cashed in 90 bucks on a 40 dollar ticket,not even 6-5 on the odds.big difference than claiming a 2300 dollar score that was proved to be bullshit.
I dont know why a celebrity like yourself would try and pull a redboard like this,i find it hilarious someone called you out on it and proved you wrong.:D

[turfnsport]

[quote=SharpCat;2383276]

Damn. I thought the :9: was my check mark? Why would I take the favorite when I had two longshots? Oh well.

Well Vic, If you plan on selling your picks this thread shows you have part of the job mastered. :lol:

[Prioress Ply]

Steward, jockey's agent, TV 'personality,' handicapper par excellence and certainly second to none.

The only thing you aren't is a racetrack announcer. Sorry that Prineville gig got away from you again this year.

Have you checked Rillito? They've got their Diamond Jubilee coming up and Tucson is just a beautiful city!

[cj]

Steward, jockey's agent, TV 'personality,' handicapper par excellence and certainly second to none.

The only thing you aren't is a racetrack announcer. Sorry that Prineville gig got away from you again this year.

Have you checked Rillito? They've got their Diamond Jubilee coming up and Tucson is just a beautiful city!

Is this for Vic? If so you didn't know he is the announcer at Oaklawn Park?

[Andy Asaro]

I don't know. I copied his ticket and got paid on 4 or 5:eek:

[Suff]

You can hurt a trainer talking shit about his horses.
.

Timely example.


https://twitter.com/HandalRacing/status/1050785707197952000

[v j stauffer]

Is this for Vic? If so you didn't know he is the announcer at Oaklawn Park? maybe he knows something I don't. I better put in a call to Hot Springs.

[turfnsport]

After I retweeted this they exchanged a few barbs...Good stuff boys...lol..click on the little bird to see them.

https://twitter.com/turfnsport/status/1051830814416297989

[Suff]

After I retweeted this they exchanged a few barbs...Good stuff boys...lol..click on the little bird to see them.



:popcorn:
TheBigA went low and hard. This is not fair. :)



That is what I said. And if you consider getting beat over seven lengths in a $40K maiden claimer that went in 1:46.77 for 1 1/16 miles running a jump you're nowhere near as smart as everyone else seems to think you are.

[cj]

Timely example.


https://twitter.com/HandalRacing/status/1050785707197952000

I really don't get why a few trainers worry about what analysts think or say. It is two completely different aspects of the sport. Trainers look at the horses one way, analysts look at them as wagering prospects. You'd think the trainers have more important things to worry about.

Anybody know what the specific race/horse they are talking about was?

[Suff]

I really don't get why a few trainers worry about what analysts think or say. It is two completely different aspects of the sport. Trainers look at the horses one way, analysts look at them as wagering prospects. You'd think the trainers have more important things to worry about.

Anybody know what the specific race/horse they are talking about was?

I think there is an intrinsic battle about what types of horses that trainers get to train. Barclay Tagg, Shug, Brown, Pletcher get the Ivy Leagues and the lower tiers trainers get the community college grads.

Talking horses team knows whats in everybody's barns. I thought Ray Handle's horses ran above their pay grade at Saratoga. He had 12th of Never Land run really well at first out and 2nd out and looks like a good turf horse.

When I've seen Ray at the track or caught him on camera in the paddock or the winners circle, he gives off high intensity. It seems to me that he gives 100% and his horses punch above their weight class.

[ReplayRandall]

When I've seen Ray at the track or caught him on camera in the paddock or the winners circle, he gives off high intensity.

Fuss, do me a favor and elaborate on your above comment.....

[Suff]

Fuss, do me a favor and elaborate on your above comment.....

I look at someone and I read their energy. The way he saddles, the way he walks his stock. I traded a couple of tweets with Ray in August about 12NL because I bet 12nl first out and missed a length on dirt. My opinion is not much. Just what I pick up. Did you get a different vibe? or more curious where I come up with my sense of things?

[ReplayRandall]

I look at someone and I read their energy. The way he saddles, the way he walks his stock. I traded a couple of tweets with Ray in August about 12NL because I bet 12nl first out and missed a length on dirt. My opinion is not much. Just what I pick up. Did you get a different vibe? or more curious where I come up with my sense of things?


I'm just interested in the smaller overlooked nuggets of "intentions" that might be added to my toolbox, always looking for an extra edge....Thanks for your perspectives, I find them intriguing.

[the little guy]

Ray and Anthony were just having fun.

Makes the game more fun. Both are good guys.

[turfnsport]

Ray and Anthony were just having fun.

Makes the game more fun. Both are good guys.

Really? They both seem like good guys, but I did not feel the love....lol.. Anthony's temperament on Twitter reminds me of someone else in horse racing, name escapes me.

[the little guy]

Really? They both seem like good guys, but I did not feel the love....lol.. Anthony's temperament on Twitter reminds me of someone else in horse racing, name escapes me.

Further proving the foolishness of deciding someone's temperament based on what they post on the internet.

[turfnsport]

Further proving the foolishness of deciding someone's temperament based on what they post on the internet.

Read carefully... I said "temperament on Twitter."

[the little guy]

Read carefully... I said "temperament on Twitter."

You will have to explain the difference to me.

I think it's all people reading into what is written. Frankly, I have found that the vast majority of the time people get things wrong. I thought a guy was being snide to me the other day, only to realize he was being tongue in cheek, and what he Tweeted to me was actually very funny. I'm not blaming others, I think it's genuinely hard to judge much of the time....and unfortunately, most people ( myself included ) can jump to incorrect conclusions.

[groupie doll]

Interesting last few pages... I think I now have a better understanding of why Mr. Stauffer failed to reply to a question I asked him three times in a row in a different thread a couple of months back.

[sour grapes]

Interesting last few pages... I think I now have a better understanding of why Mr. Stauffer failed to reply to a question I asked him three times in a row in a different thread a couple of months back.

Vic is a snake oil salesman,he floated the idea of him charging for his picks and was immediatly shot down.Then he claimed to have hit a 2300 pick 5 and was exposed as a fraud by a poster who checked his picks,i guess he thought he could stroke his ego on this board and instead was made to look like an idiot.

[v j stauffer]

Vic is a snake oil salesman,he floated the idea of him charging for his picks and was immediatly shot down.Then he claimed to have hit a 2300 pick 5 and was exposed as a fraud by a poster who checked his picks,i guess he thought he could stroke his ego on this board and instead was made to look like an idiot.
Listen pal. I DON'T need this forum to look like an idiot!

[v j stauffer]

Interesting last few pages... I think I now have a better understanding of why Mr. Stauffer failed to reply to a question I asked him three times in a row in a different thread a couple of months back.
What was your question a few months back? I try to answer everything. Please repost it.

[groupie doll]

What was your question a few months back? I try to answer everything. Please repost it.

I'm trying to find the thread. .. it was a thread started asking people to give examples of handicapping methods, analytical methods, etc.
I had asked you to clarify a point you made, but we had a couple of go-arounds and it went unanswered. I'll keep looking since I can't find the thread now.
Anyway, what Sour grapes posted is why I thought maybe you didn't respond then...

[ReplayRandall]

I'm trying to find the thread. .. it was a thread started asking people to give examples of handicapping methods, analytical methods, etc.
I had asked you to clarify a point you made, but we had a couple of go-arounds and it went unanswered. I'll keep looking since I can't find the thread now.
Anyway, what Sour grapes posted is why I thought maybe you didn't respond then...


Here's the thread....Start at post #60 where you begin to interact:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145790

[groupie doll]

Thanks Randall. Yeah, post 77 is where I asked for clarification. Maybe there is none to be had, which is fine too. Either way. .. we did come to some sort of resolution on the exchange any I suppose.

[thaskalos]

Thanks Randall. Yeah, post 77 is where I asked for clarification. Maybe there is none to be had, which is fine too. Either way. .. we did come to some sort of resolution on the exchange any I suppose.

You repeated your clarification request in post #101...and Vic answered you in post #106. No?

[Suff]

Just on handicappers.. The last few days Andy Serling has been dropping winners at the same rate wild cats have kittens.

[ultracapper]

Gotta give credit where credit is due. Todd nailed the Sycamore on TVG today.

[v j stauffer]

Here's another one to verify.

Thursday TVG2 shift.

Delta Downs Pick 4

$40.50 ticket comes back a handy $209.95

I am willing to lie about another one. But I can't because I can't miss baby!

Let's GO!!! :headbanger:

[v j stauffer]

You repeated your clarification request in post #101...and Vic answered you in post #106. No?

Don't know another way to answer the question.

[groupie doll]

You repeated your clarification request in post #101...and Vic answered you in post #106. No?

No he didn't. But, as I said previously, I kind of get why based on this thread and it's no big deal.

[v j stauffer]

No he didn't. But, as I said previously, I kind of get why based on this thread and it's no big deal.

Perhaps you should ask the question in a different way? I feel I've answered it to the best of my ability.

[upthecreek]

https://twitter.com/HorseRaceSite/status/1053368818633003010

[v j stauffer]

Here's another one to verify.

Thursday TVG2 shift.

Delta Downs Pick 4

$40.50 ticket comes back a handy $209.95

I am willing to lie about another one. But I can't because I can't miss baby!

Let's GO!!! :headbanger:

UNBELIEVABLE!! :headbanger:

UNSTOPPABLE!! :headbanger:

I did it again. Delta Downs Pick 4 $48.00 ticket hits and pays.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................$36.00:blush :

Hey deficient spending. It works for our government.:cool:

[Franco Santiago]

UNBELIEVABLE!! :headbanger:

UNSTOPPABLE!! :headbanger:

I did it again. Delta Downs Pick 4 $48.00 ticket hits and pays.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................$36.00:blush :

Hey deficient spending. It works for our government.:cool:


Straight AND strong!


Sometimes it happens. At least you got SOMETHING back. But allow me to ask you to ponder this: is it a leak to include all four morning line favorites in each leg of your P4? (I am not saying you DID this on this ticket (but it looks as though you might have) but instead, I am just throwing out food for thought on your ticket structure. I try very hard never to include all four ML faves on my tickets...there's little chance that it's profitable IMO.)

[HalvOnHorseracing]

UNBELIEVABLE!! :headbanger:

UNSTOPPABLE!! :headbanger:

I did it again. Delta Downs Pick 4 $48.00 ticket hits and pays.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................$36.00:blush :

Hey deficient spending. It works for our government.:cool:

What would the parlay have paid?

I made a lot of money betting P4's before they started making them 50 cents. I'm not saying it's impossible to make big money with 50 cent P4's, but it seems to occur less often than it used to.

I could discuss P4's ad nauseam but it would make little difference in people's betting habits. There is an art to betting the P4, and not every P4 is worth an investment.

I think I wrote about this in American Turf Monthly 25 years ago. Still working on it.

[SharpCat]

What would the parlay have paid?

I made a lot of money betting P4's before they started making them 50 cents. I'm not saying it's impossible to make big money with 50 cent P4's, but it seems to occur less often than it used to.

I could discuss P4's ad nauseam but it would make little difference in people's betting habits. There is an art to betting the P4, and not every P4 is worth an investment.

I think I wrote about this in American Turf Monthly 25 years ago. Still working on it.

No doubt is hard to make real big money on a 50 cent P4. Once in a great while gems like this happen. I would assume the same player took both the P3 and P4 pools :headbanger:

https://i.imgur.com/kTE2446.png
https://i.imgur.com/2cPvTb2.png

[v j stauffer]

I didn't hijack the thread. I stood up for my friend Matt when TrackingTVG said all those terrible and unfounded things about him in particular and TVG hosts in general.

[Clydepuckett]

https://twitter.com/HorseRaceSite/status/1053368818633003010

And she, his wife, supplies a lot of his on air wisdom.....prove me wrong.

And I enjoyed 58 Flat.....

[PaceAdvantage]

For the record, it wasn't *I* who changed the title of this thread...but I do appreciate the humor!