Survey says.....no shit?

[JustRalph]

https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates

No kidding....

[baconswitchfarm]

At least they are all law abiding saints.

[chadk66]

This won't surprise anybody. Might make a couple blush a little but not surprise em. Be interesting come Nov. when many of these people are afraid to vote this time.

[Inner Dirt]

I never believed the 11 million number as I lived in California for 50 years. Cali has to have around 5 million. There are huge areas of cities where pretty much no one in public speaks English.

[Tom]

It over 22 million easily.

[Dave Schwartz]

“Instead of a number which was smaller, we got a number that was 50% higher. That caused us to scratch our heads.”

Hmm... From 11m to 22m is 50% higher?

A mathematician said that?
There's a bone in my head that says this is 100% higher.

[Tom]

And there is our government, summed up nicely! :lol:

[FakeNameChanged]

Hmm... From 11m to 22m is 50% higher?

A mathematician said that?
There's a bone in my head that says this is 100% higher.
Actually they "found" the number to be 16.7 million. But they estimated it could be as high as 22 million. Hence the 50% number.

[Tom]

It was over 22 million back when Lyin' Ted Kennedy reneged on his promise to Reagan regarding immigration and amnesty.

[Marshall Bennett]

40-50 million and I'd bet anything on it. They're scattered everywhere now. They've learn survival here is best if not grouped together. There, you're neighbor may be the reason you're arrested. Until they settle it may be their only option however.
Democrat leaders know this very well, but they've chosen instead of fixing it, to use it as a tool against conservatives. They will fight just about anything conservatives find formidable.

[Dave Schwartz]

Actually they "found" the number to be 16.7 million. But they estimated it could be as high as 22 million. Hence the 50% number.

Ah, thanks.

I missed that.

[Suff]

mini-trap. They're trying to de-fang the crime rates.

Doubling the undocumented , also cuts the crime rate in half.

At 22 million, the undocumented now have the same crime rate as the Amish.

[davew]

Anywhere that has heavy farming has heavy illegal (oops, I mean non documented) populations. Farmers say they can not get Americans to fill those jobs, but in many cases it is the management style that Americans are unwilling to put up with. This carries over into agricultural processing as well.

I wonder at what percentage of racetracks on the backstretch over half the grooms and hot-walkers are undocumented?

[rastajenk]

That would be zero percent, dave.

[Tom]

mini-trap. They're trying to de-fang the crime rates.

Doubling the undocumented , also cuts the crime rate in half.

At 22 million, the undocumented now have the same crime rate as the Amish.

Uh oh......

[hcap]

mini-trap. They're trying to de-fang the crime rates.

Doubling the undocumented , also cuts the crime rate in half.

At 22 million, the undocumented now have the same crime rate as the Amish.No one is minimizing anything. However....

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5b7ec10d959f34202e8b5277-1920-1440.png

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5b7ed2e9e199f3592e8b4854-1920-1401.png

https://www.businessinsider.com/undocumented-aliens-violent-crime-murder-statistics-data-2018-8

[hcap]

http://criminology.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190264079.001.0001/acrefore-9780190264079-e-93

In the context of crime, victimization, and immigration in the United States, research shows that people are afraid of immigrants because they think immigrants are a threat to their safety and engage in many violent and property crimes. However, quantitative research has consistently shown that being foreign born is negatively associated with crime overall and is not significantly associated with committing either violent or property crime. If an undocumented immigrant is arrested for a criminal offense, it tends to be for a misdemeanor. Researchers suggest that undocumented immigrants may be less likely to engage in serious criminal offending behavior because they seek to earn money and not to draw attention to themselves. Additionally, immigrants who have access to social services are less likely to engage in crime than those who live in communities where such access is not available. In regard to victimization, immigrants are more likely to be victims of crime. Foreign-born victims of crime may not report their victimization because of fears that they will experience negative consequences if they contact the police. Recently, concern about immigration and victimization has turned to refugees who are at risk of harm from traffickers, who warehouse them, threaten them, and physically abuse them with impunity. More research is needed on the relationship among immigration, offending, and victimization. The United States and other nations that focus on border security may be misplacing their efforts during global crises that result in forced migrations. Poverty and war, among other social conditions that would “encourage” a person to leave their homeland in search of a better life, should be addressed by governments when enforcing immigration laws and policy.

[chadk66]

Anywhere that has heavy farming has heavy illegal (oops, I mean non documented) populations. Farmers say they can not get Americans to fill those jobs, but in many cases it is the management style that Americans are unwilling to put up with. This carries over into agricultural processing as well.

I wonder at what percentage of racetracks on the backstretch over half the grooms and hot-walkers are undocumented?far more work in construction than farming I think

[Tom]

hcap is trying to make you believe ILLEGAL aliens are counted as part of immigration.

hcap is a funny guy.

[davew]

far more work in construction than farming I think

There are millions in construction, agriculture, food service.

I am not sure which has highest percentage or highest total number.

[hcap]

hcap is trying to make you believe ILLEGAL aliens are counted as part of immigration.

hcap is a funny guy.Fact free and delusional as usual.
You gents are irrationally afraid crime and "danger" presented by the "brown man.

Seriously Tom, what's wrong with the data I posted? I dfid not dispute how many undocumented aliens are here, but instead went to the core of the issue.

[Tom]

If you do not include ALL the immigrants and illegals, you are telling a lie about the date.

FACT Jack.

NO one is saying LEGAL immigrant are a problem.
In fact, most of them who came here legally and followed the rules and are here to better themselves aer BETTER Americans the dems who favor open borders.

I would trade 3 dems for every LEGAL from anywhere in the world.

And stick that "brown man" comment where the sun don't shine.
Playing the race card is all you got?
Pathetic old man.

[hcap]

If you do not include ALL the immigrants and illegals, you are telling a lie about the date.

FACT Jack.

NO one is saying LEGAL immigrant are a problem.
In fact, most of them who came here legally and followed the rules and are here to better themselves aer BETTER Americans the dems who favor open borders.

I would trade 3 dems for every LEGAL from anywhere in the world.

And stick that "brown man" comment where the sun don't shine.
Playing the race card is all you got?
Pathetic old man.The article I posted graphs from was about illegals titled

Mollie Tibbetts' death is being used to push debunked ideas about illegal immigration and violent crime

I posted the link. Here it is again

https://www.businessinsider.com/undocumented-aliens-violent-crime-murder-statistics-data-2018-8

[Tom]

My original point was that when they are illegal , your numbers are NOT facts.

That is what FACT FREE is.

[hcap]

My original point was that when they are illegal , your numbers are NOT facts.

That is what FACT FREE is.You are not speaking English.
Again, the study was about "when they are illegal"

[davew]

The article I posted graphs from was about illegals titled

Mollie Tibbetts' death is being used to push debunked ideas about illegal immigration and violent crime

I posted the link. Here it is again

https://www.businessinsider.com/undocumented-aliens-violent-crime-murder-statistics-data-2018-8

Are you saying Mollie had a greater chance of being murdered by a native?
What about if there were not any illegals in her 'sanctuary' city of death?

[JustRalph]

There are millions in construction, agriculture, food service.

I am not sure which has highest percentage or highest total number.

I had to get rid of an applicant this week. Her brand new shiny SSAN and card was fake. She was really upset. She paid $300 for it. Not afraid to tell me either :rolleyes:

My payroll company does the immigration checks for me.

[hcap]

Are you saying Mollie had a greater chance of being murdered by a native?
What about if there were not any illegals in her 'sanctuary' city of death?I have no idea. One crime alone is anecdotal at best A STATISTICAL STUDY is much more meaningful. For instance. From the libertarian Cato Institute.....

Criminal Immigrants in Texas: Illegal Immigrant Conviction and Arrest Rates for Homicide, Sexual Assault, Larceny, and Other Crimes
https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/criminal-immigrants-texas-illegal-immigrant

....Natives were convicted of 409,708 crimes, illegal immigrants were convicted of 15,803 crimes, and legal immigrants were convicted of 17,785 crimes in Texas in 2015. Thus, there were 1,797 criminal convictions of natives for every 100,000 natives, 899 criminal convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and 611 criminal convictions of legal immigrants for every 100,000 legal immigrants (Figure 1). As a percentage of their respective populations, there were 50 percent fewer criminal convictions of illegal immigrants than of native-born Americans in Texas in 2015. The criminal conviction rate for legal immigrants was about 66 percent below the native-born rate.

Homicides supposedly committed by illegal immigrants garner the most public attention.13 On November 30, 2017, a San Francisco jury acquitted José Inés García Zárate, an illegal immigrant from Mexico previously deported five times, of murdering Kate Steinle.14 Her tragic killing galvanized public support for harsher immigration enforcement and the construction of a border wall and provided anecdotal evidence for then-candidate Trump’s claim that illegal immigrants are responsible for a large number of crimes in the United States.15

There were 785 total homicide convictions in Texas in 2015. Of those, native-born Americans were convicted of 709 homicides, illegal immigrants were convicted of 46 homicides, and legal immigrants were convicted of 30 homicides. The homicide conviction rate for native-born Americans was 3.1 per 100,000, 2.6 per 100,000 for illegal immigrants, and 1 per 100,000 for legal immigrants (Figure 2). In 2015, homicide conviction rates for illegal and legal immigrants were 16 percent and 67 percent below those of natives, respectively.

[Tom]

I have no idea. One crime alone is anecdotal at best A STATISTICAL STUDY is much more meaningful.

Unless the data is flawed to begin with.
As in this one.

Fact-FREE!

[hcap]

Unless the data is flawed to begin with.
As in this one.

Fact-FREE! The Cato Institute is wrong? I posted data from more than one source unlike you who never backs up anything you post.

Show us how the Cato study is flawed or suspect.
While you are at it, debunk this one also. If you can.
It's about time you Put up or.....Shut up

Immigration Myths - Crime and the Number of Illegal Immigrants
https://www.cato.org/blog/immigration-myths-crime-number-illegal-immigrants

....Our headline finding is that both illegal immigrants and legal immigrants have incarceration rates far below those of native-born Americans—at 0.85 percent, 0.47 percent, and 1.53 percent, respectively. Excluding illegal immigrants who are incarcerated or in detention for immigration offenses lowers their incarceration rate to 0.5 percent of their population—within a smidge of legal immigrants. As a result, native-born Americans are overrepresented in the incarcerated population while illegal and legal immigrants are underrepresented, relative to their respective shares of the population.

The relatively low number of incarcerated illegal immigrants places some immigration restrictionists in an uncomfortable position: choosing which myth to believe. The first myth is that illegal immigrants are especially crime-prone. The second myth is that there are actually two to three times as many illegal immigrants as is commonly reported. The usual number used by the government and most demographers is that there are 11 to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States but a steady drumbeat of skeptics claim the real number is about 22 to 36 million.

[Tom]

Seriously flawed.

[hcap]

Seriously flawed.As I said put up or shut up. Your getting tiresome.

[Tom]

You believe what you want to.
I prefer unflawed data myself.

[hcap]

You believe what you want to.
I prefer unflawed data myself.Of course you prefer lies and bullshit.

Knew you could not put up. Don't bother responding.