Is this the decade with the highest concentration of bettors dying off?

[ZippyChippy423]

All the guys who have been betting horses the last 6 decades are approaching 80 years average age. They are all dying off and it shows at the OTB’s . I wonder what the ratio is comparing new fans to the ones dying off? Maybe for every 10 lost 1 is gained or am I way off? Maybe some tracks are losing money but sources say there are definitely less horse bettors but those betting are wagering more. Makes sense.

[AlsoEligible]

Maybe some tracks are losing money but sources say there are definitely less horse bettors but those betting are wagering more.

I think a lot of that is attributable to whale betting, and was discussed at the recent Jockey Club Round Table.

http://jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=RT&year=2018&area=4

A third but related shift is the growth of computer-assisted wagering, which is professional bettors using computer algorithms and automated bet placement software to place their bets. This activity has almost doubled in the past seven years at five tracks that McKinsey looked at and is now estimated to be between 16 to 19% of all handle.

Many experts that McKinsey spoke to believe that this growth has a natural limit, which they put at about 20% of overall handle.

You see, computer wagering players don't want to bet just against each other. They need recreational players in the pool to be profitable and continue betting. So we may be nearing the limits of the growth of the computer wagering that we've seen over the past seven years. If so, overall handle will decline again in the future, unless racing can grow to recreational bettors.

So from 2005-2011, overall handle was in a tailspin, dropping an average of -4.65% per year. From 2012 to present, that's leveled off, and handle has either remained steady or slightly increased (average increase of 0.22% per year).

Source: http://www.jockeyclub.com/default.asp?section=FB&area=8

I think there's a direct correlation between those numbers leveling off, and the rise of robobetting that started around the same time. The whales have effectively stopped the bleeding, but in doing so have covered up the fact that average bettors are still dying off, or walking away, and aren't being replaced. Meanwhile the industry is content to take their quarter-point increase in handle every year, and pretend that everything is fine.

But as McKinsey points out, the whales can only bet so much before they hit a point of diminishing returns, and they're very nearly there. Once they hit that wall - and coupling that with competition from sports betting - I think we see handle numbers start to drop again, which will set off a domino effect that will cause the contraction that racing has desperately needed. I expect to see a lot of tracks closing their doors over the next decade.

[baconswitchfarm]

All the guys who have been betting horses the last 6 decades are approaching 80 years average age. They are all dying off and it shows at the OTB’s . I wonder what the ratio is comparing new fans to the ones dying off? Maybe for every 10 lost 1 is gained or am I way off? Maybe some tracks are losing money but sources say there are definitely less horse bettors but those betting are wagering more. Makes sense.








If I was guessing i would say 50 lost to 1 gained would be closer.

[biggestal99]

If i we’re guessing I’d say racing was safe until people who are 40 (now) or so and younger are 70. that’s about 30 years. Unless racing powers change up it will die off around 2040 or so.

Sad....

Allan

[bobphilo]

This is a very sad development and this decline is painfully evident when one tries to discuss racing amongst friends or people in general. Compared to other sports, most people know little and care less about it. The only exception being the Kentucky Derby, but even there knowledge is lacking. Compare this to the "golden age" of Secretariat, Affirmed vs. Alydar and Ruffian.
The only people I can even discuss racing with are online and now most think handicapping has something to do with the disabled.

[AskinHaskin]

Is this the decade with the highest concentration of bettors dying off?

Depends upon whether you mean that literally, or figuratively.


If literally, then of course each subsequent decade will have more (horse) bettors dying off, with this one eventually the new leader, for a short time.


But if figuratively, then it was probably the 1990's or the 2000's, as there are so relatively few left anymore that the effect of their own mortality is but a small fraction of that which track management largely drove away with pure stupidity in the 1990's and the 2000's.


You should also define when those bettors are counted as 'gone':


Was it when somebody wrote their obituary? Or was it the day after the latest pinheaded move by track management effected their final wager on a horse?

[bobphilo]

Racing has lost it's place in the imagination of the American population. I bet if one were to do a "Man in the Street" survey of awareness of the Super Bowl compared to the Breeder's Cup the ratio would be 100 to 1 - unless that street was located across the street from Saratoga or Santa Anita. Compare this to the days when the racing exploits of Seabisbuit helped a nation cope with the Great Depression.

I wonder if the same state of affairs exists in Europe or Asia ? Maybe the U.K. and Australia would be exceptions.

[AltonKelsey]

I think it has a lot to do with the American public's IQ dipping below the 80 level.


Much easier to buy a lottery ticket or watch a few kneeling goons throw a ball around.

[AndyC]

I think it has a lot to do with the American public's IQ dipping below the 80 level..

I think that people viewing horse betting from the outside would make the same claim about the horseplayer's IQ. With so many options for gambling at lower costs why would the expectation be growth?

[thaskalos]

I think that people viewing horse betting from the outside would make the same claim about the horseplayer's IQ. With so many options for gambling at lower costs why would the expectation be growth?

:ThmbUp:

Whenever I admit to people that I am a horseplayer...I always receive a "Wow, and I thought you were a smart guy" look in return.

[bobphilo]

I think it has a lot to do with the American public's IQ dipping below the 80 level.


Much easier to buy a lottery ticket or watch a few kneeling goons throw a ball around.

:ThmbUp:
With horse racing being the one of the few forms of legal gambling where skill outweighs dumb luck, this is one occasion where I agree with you completely.

[spiketoo]

:ThmbUp:
With horse racing being the one of the few forms of legal gambling where skill outweighs dumb luck, this is one occasion where I agree with you completely.

I dunno. I'm a pretty skillful guy but after hitting 4 of 6 at BEL today, coulda used some dumb luck with Ortiz in the finale.:bang::bang::bang:

[AndyC]

:ThmbUp:
With horse racing being the one of the few forms of legal gambling where skill outweighs dumb luck, this is one occasion where I agree with you completely.

Both poker and sports betting require skill for long term success and the price to play is much cheaper than racing.

[aaron]

:ThmbUp:

Whenever I admit to people that I am a horseplayer...I always receive a "Wow, and I thought you were a smart guy" look in return.

You should ask all the "smart guys" how much profit they are showing from gambling ?

[ReplayRandall]

You should ask all the "smart guys" how much profit they are showing from gambling ?

Aaron, what are you implying when you posed your question to Thaskalos?...:cool:

[thaskalos]

Aaron, what are you implying when you posed your question to Thaskalos?...:cool:

Is he making fun of me, Randall...I couldn't tell. Should I give him a spanking over at HorseTourneys? :cool:

[ReplayRandall]

Is he making fun of me, Randall...I couldn't tell. Should I give him a spanking over at HorseTourneys? :cool:

I think you're past your limit of 10 spankings at HT....:cool:

[Nitro]

WOW! Day-by-day the thread topics around here are becoming more and more amusing. Now there’s morbid concern about the dying off and reduction of the horse betting population. Unbelievable! What a joke!

I’m sure those who’ve passed must surely appreciate the concern by others over the loss of they’re immeasurable betting dollars. I mean those of us who still play should really devote more time and energy to solving this ongoing crisis.

I think Zippy should immediately take it upon himself to contact all those families who’ve lost a horse playing family member and let them know how concerned he is about his feelings of loss. Maybe he could also try to convince them how important it would be for one among them to take up the game where their passed relative left off. After all wouldn’t that be the proper tribute to a family member who was so devoted to a GAME? At the same time he would be recruiting new players to replace those who’ve passed. In fact, who knows a few PA members with similar sentiments might even want to join you in this endeavor!

Come on Zippy! You can do it! We’ll all be cheering you on! :jump:

[ZippyChippy423]

Haters gonna hate . What would you like the thread topics to be oh narcissistic one?

[1GCFAN]

I know these horseplayers: Age 51, Age 52, Age 61, Age 61, Age 65. All younger than me. All other folks I know think we are crazy not to center our life around the NFL and fantasy football.

[Nitro]

Haters gonna hate . What would you like the thread topics to be oh narcissistic one?
Oh Zippy please don’t take my comments personally. I certainly wouldn’t want to deter you from introducing so many thought provoking and enlightening topics. I hope you won’t mind if I pass on posting on those which I find so thoroughly uninformative as they pertain to the game itself.

[thaskalos]

Nitro is absolutely right! Can't we start some threads about the majesty of Hong Kong racing...so we could keep him AMUSED? After all...aren't we all here so we can keep Nitro from getting BORED? :jump:

[Nitro]

Nitro is absolutely right! Can't we start some threads about the majesty of Hong Kong racing...so we could keep him AMUSED? After all...aren't we all here so we can keep Nitro from getting BORED? :jump:
WOW! Imagine that a thread about some affirmative aspects of horse racing! Heaven forbid that sort of topic should appear among all the complaints about local racing.

You know you such a smart cookie, why don’t you peruse the lists of all the recent thread topics and tell everyone why you believe that they provide such optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game you profess to enjoy so much. Oh, I’m sorry if that last appraisal was a bit exaggerated.

Then you can also ponder about how those who might be new to the game might re-think their involvement after reading those topics.

[ReplayRandall]

WOW! Imagine that a thread about some affirmative aspects of horse racing! Heaven forbid that sort of topic should appear among all the complaints about local racing.

I've got a nice horseshoe shaped watch from the Hong Kong Jockey club, if your interested....

[Nitro]

I've got a nice horseshoe shaped watch from the Hong Kong Jockey club, if your interested....
Thanks for the offer, but I’m not sure it would match my diamond studded gold horseshoe ring.

[ReplayRandall]

Thanks for the offer, but I’m not sure it would match my diamond studded gold horseshoe ring.
It wouldn't, the watch is made of platinum...;)

[thaskalos]

WOW! Imagine that a thread about some affirmative aspects of horse racing! Heaven forbid that sort of topic should appear among all the complaints about local racing.

You know you such a smart cookie, why don’t you peruse the lists of all the recent thread topics and tell everyone why you believe that they provide such optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game you profess to enjoy so much. Oh, I’m sorry if that last appraisal was a bit exaggerated.

Then you can also ponder about how those who might be new to the game might re-think their involvement after reading those topics.

The only "exaggeration" of yours that I've been able to notice on this board is your estimation of what you YOURSELF have contributed to our handicapping discussions here. Unless you consider your endless touting of your Hong Kong "betting prowess" to be the sort of 'optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game' that you seem to crave. According to my memory, the only time that you ever endeavored to give us a realistic and "constructive" demonstration here...your Hong Kong betting presentation went so horribly awry that you brought the experiment to a sudden and unceremonious end...and you hid away in embarrassment for a considerable amount of time...only to return here when you thought that we had forgotten about your prior wagering debacle.

Spare me the smart-alecky remarks about any "optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game", friend...we all know that you have nothing of substance to offer about the game here. Why don't you confine yourself to the selections forum...where you can bore people to tears with your "ultra-sophisticated" Hong Kong exotic selections. :rolleyes: And, if you should ever feel the need to prove to yourself how truly ignorant you are about the game...then take me on in a little handicapping contest...and I promise to put you in your place in short order. Any track in the land would be fine with me. :ThmbUp:

[jahura2]

This is a very sad development and this decline is painfully evident when one tries to discuss racing amongst friends or people in general. Compared to other sports, most people know little and care less about it. The only exception being the Kentucky Derby, but even there knowledge is lacking. Compare this to the "golden age" of Secretariat, Affirmed vs. Alydar and Ruffian.
The only people I can even discuss racing with are online and now most think handicapping has something to do with the disabled.

This is what specifically bugs me. I live in the heart of thoroughbred country (Lexington) yet people rarely discuss racing at all.
I just got back from my 1st trip to Saratoga and was in heaven as everywhere I went, and I'm not exaggerating , people asked "are you going to the track?" or "how did you do today?"
I would love it if for once I could just have racing discussions with people who actually care about the sport in person. You would think Kentucky might be one of those places .Not so. Even during the Keeneland meets its all about what to wear, who you are with, .....sick of it. I feel like I'm in a rowboat out in the middle of the ocean.
Pace Advantage and Paulick Report are the only things keeping me sane.

[aaron]

Aaron, what are you implying when you posed your question to Thaskalos?...:cool:
What I was trying to say. Is that Thaskalos is probably showing a profit, while those who don't think he is smart are probably losing a significant amount of money on other forms of gambling.

[turfnsport]

Racing has lost it's place in the imagination of the American population. I bet if one were to do a "Man in the Street" survey of awareness of the Super Bowl compared to the Breeder's Cup the ratio would be 100 to 1 - unless that street was located across the street from Saratoga or Santa Anita. Compare this to the days when the racing exploits of Seabisbuit helped a nation cope with the Great Depression.

I wonder if the same state of affairs exists in Europe or Asia ? Maybe the U.K. and Australia would be exceptions.

100-1? You left out a couple of zeros.

[ReplayRandall]

What I was trying to say. Is that Thaskalos is probably showing a profit, while those who don't think he is smart are probably losing a significant amount of money on other forms of gambling.
Aaron, I knew what you meant, I was just having a little fun with Gus...

[chiguy]

I would be curious to know how many active customers the ADW's have. While I do see a decline in attendance at the brick and mortar facilities I have been using for years, my assumption has been that it is pretty well related to the rise and use of ADW's. I am 57 so while no spring chicken, I do have a decent handle on technology. I am still teachable. The average age of an ADW customer must be lower than my age. This may be part of the perception that the horse player is dying off. The younger ones are doing it through an ADW and not showing up at the track or simulcast facility except for some big days for the atmosphere. I am pretty sure that there are overall less players than there used to be but there is only so much gambling capital out there and not having an almost exclusive hold on it like horse racing did in the 50's and 60's would naturally lead to a decline. I believe I have also mentioned in the past on another thread that since I first started going to the track in 1985, everyone has been telling me the horse player is a dying breed. I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!:D

[aaron]

Aaron, I knew what you meant, I was just having a little fun with Gus...

Didn't want anyone to think,I was disparaging them.

[Nitro]

The only "exaggeration" of yours that I've been able to notice on this board is your estimation of what you YOURSELF have contributed to our handicapping discussions here. Unless you consider your endless touting of your Hong Kong "betting prowess" to be the sort of 'optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game' that you seem to crave. According to my memory, the only time that you ever endeavored to give us a realistic and "constructive" demonstration here...your Hong Kong betting presentation went so horribly awry that you brought the experiment to a sudden and unceremonious end...and you hid away in embarrassment for a considerable amount of time...only to return here when you thought that we had forgotten about your prior wagering debacle.

Spare me the smart-alecky remarks about any "optimistic, constructive and encouraging information about the game", friend...we all know that you have nothing of substance to offer about the game here. Why don't you confine yourself to the selections forum...where you can bore people to tears with your "ultra-sophisticated" Hong Kong exotic selections. :rolleyes: And, if you should ever feel the need to prove to yourself how truly ignorant you are about the game...then take me on in a little handicapping contest...and I promise to put you in your place in short order. Any track in the land would be fine with me. :ThmbUp:

I guess I struck a nerve, because your response is completely out of context to what I was referring to and suddenly directed at me. How convenient! I suppose you would also like us to believe that this thread is about “handicapping”. LOL

I certainly wouldn’t want to offer much in the way of handicapping advice anyway because as you know I gave that up quite a while ago. But your description based on a piss-poor memory (I might add) sure makes my little Dutching demonstration look like some more of the negative commentary that you seem relish. If you even followed it at all you might have noticed that the only controversy at the time was my use of the HK odds versus the US equivalent with a 1-point deduction. So, if that in your mind constitutes “horribly awry” then I would put it once again in your “exaggeration” category. My little hiatus from the PA forum had absolutely nothing to do with that thread.

What do you mean “we all know”? So, now you’re speaking for the entire group of PA members? You got some pair buddy! As far as offering anything goes, when was the last time you offered a selection or two?

BTW it sounds like your “OK Coral” mentality is a result of watching too many Westerns. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. As far as my ignorance goes, I probably should have let this rebuttal go, but I wasn’t about to let your incendiary remarks go unchallenged. Besides as I said, you seem to delight in these sort of things. So enjoy! :jump:

[thaskalos]

I guess I struck a nerve, because your response is completely out of context to what I was referring to and suddenly directed at me. How convenient! I suppose you would also like us to believe that this thread is about “handicapping”. LOL

I certainly wouldn’t want to offer much in the way of handicapping advice anyway because as you know I gave that up quite a while ago. But your description based on a piss-poor memory (I might add) sure makes my little Dutching demonstration look like some more of the negative commentary that you seem relish. If you even followed it at all you might have noticed that the only controversy at the time was my use of the HK odds versus the US equivalent with a 1-point deduction. So, if that in your mind constitutes “horribly awry” then I would put it once again in your “exaggeration” category. My little hiatus from the PA forum had absolutely nothing to do with that thread.

What do you mean “we all know”? So, now you’re speaking for the entire group of PA members? You got some pair buddy! As far as offering anything goes, when was the last time you offered a selection or two?

BTW it sounds like your “OK Coral” mentality is a result of watching too many Westerns. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. As far as my ignorance goes, I probably should have let this rebuttal go, but I wasn’t about to let your incendiary remarks go unchallenged. Besides as I said, you seem to delight in these sort of things. So enjoy! :jump:

Yes...yes...a very typically predictable response.

My "OK Coral mentality" comes in handy, pal...because it puts a quick end to any argument where the occasional poster here might bring my "love" of this game, or my dedication to it, into question. That's the great thing about horseracing forums; there is a "theory", AND a "practice" component to them. This helps in separating the "practitioners" from the 'theorists' around here...when our discussions take a "personal" turn.

Run along now, back to your Hong Kong selection threads...so you -- who have nothing to prove here -- can continue to enlighten us with your brilliant wager-construction. :ThmbUp: Just don't start betting in the neighborhood of $450 a race again, lest you make another few thousand dollars disappear in record time...causing you to go on another "unrelated" hiatus. :)

And, I think I owe you an apology for mentioning your "ignorance" about this game. At least you had the sense to refuse my "OK Coral" invitation. Smart move. :ThmbUp:

[lex]

This is what specifically bugs me. I live in the heart of thoroughbred country (Lexington) yet people rarely discuss racing at all.
I just got back from my 1st trip to Saratoga and was in heaven as everywhere I went, and I'm not exaggerating , people asked "are you going to the track?" or "how did you do today?"
I would love it if for once I could just have racing discussions with people who actually care about the sport in person. You would think Kentucky might be one of those places .Not so. Even during the Keeneland meets its all about what to wear, who you are with, .....sick of it. I feel like I'm in a rowboat out in the middle of the ocean.
Pace Advantage and Paulick Report are the only things keeping me sane.

jahura2 don't feel so alone. When Saratoga isn't running there's almost no talk of horse racing in the area. I know lots of people that go to Saratoga and they think I'm crazy for popping down to Belmont or the Big A the rest of the year.

[JohnGalt1]

I would be curious to know how many active customers the ADW's have. While I do see a decline in attendance at the brick and mortar facilities I have been using for years, my assumption has been that it is pretty well related to the rise and use of ADW's. I am 57 so while no spring chicken, I do have a decent handle on technology. I am still teachable. The average age of an ADW customer must be lower than my age. This may be part of the perception that the horse player is dying off. The younger ones are doing it through an ADW and not showing up at the track or simulcast facility except for some big days for the atmosphere. I am pretty sure that there are overall less players than there used to be but there is only so much gambling capital out there and not having an almost exclusive hold on it like horse racing did in the 50's and 60's would naturally lead to a decline. I believe I have also mentioned in the past on another thread that since I first started going to the track in 1985, everyone has been telling me the horse player is a dying breed. I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!:D

Ding-ding-ding. We have a winner, at least in my opinion.

At Canterbury the simulcast betters used to number in the dozens, now it is much less. Yes some have died, some have gotten too old to drive.

I can only bet live racing on track. but now bet mostly at home and avoid the 45 minute drive.

[thaskalos]

I would be curious to know how many active customers the ADW's have. While I do see a decline in attendance at the brick and mortar facilities I have been using for years, my assumption has been that it is pretty well related to the rise and use of ADW's. I am 57 so while no spring chicken, I do have a decent handle on technology. I am still teachable. The average age of an ADW customer must be lower than my age. This may be part of the perception that the horse player is dying off. The younger ones are doing it through an ADW and not showing up at the track or simulcast facility except for some big days for the atmosphere. I am pretty sure that there are overall less players than there used to be but there is only so much gambling capital out there and not having an almost exclusive hold on it like horse racing did in the 50's and 60's would naturally lead to a decline. I believe I have also mentioned in the past on another thread that since I first started going to the track in 1985, everyone has been telling me the horse player is a dying breed. I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!:D

I used to think the same thing...but a rather recent development caused me to change my mind. A couple years ago, an oversight by the Illinois lawmen cause ADW wagering to be rendered ILLEGAL in Illinois, and this travesty went on for a couple of months(I think) before it was finally remedied. During that time, I would go to the more popular OTBs on a daily basis...to see if this ADW illegality would lead to a bigger crowd gathered there. I mean...wouldn't an ADW customer opt to visit an OTB in order to place his wagers, instead of waiting for MONTHS for ADW wagering to become legal again? To my great surprise, the OTB clientele in the Chicagoland area were as sparse as they had ever been...ADW or no ADW. It made me think that the ADW crowd might not be as large as we imagine it to be.

[elhelmete]

I used to think the same thing...but a rather recent development caused me to change my mind. A couple years ago, an oversight by the Illinois lawmen cause ADW wagering to be rendered ILLEGAL in Illinois, and this travesty went on for a couple of months(I think) before it was finally remedied. During that time, I would go to the more popular OTBs on a daily basis...to see if this ADW illegality would lead to a bigger crowd gathered there. I mean...wouldn't an ADW customer opt to visit an OTB in order to place his wagers, instead of waiting for MONTHS for ADW wagering to become legal again? To my great surprise, the OTB clientele in the Chicagoland area were as sparse as they had ever been...ADW or no ADW. It made me think that the ADW crowd might not be as large as we imagine it to be.

This doesn't surprise me, unfortunately.

The OTBs I've seen in person aren't terribly hospitable places to spend an afternoon. A couple exceptions...the OTBs at Del Mar (Surfside) and up in Ventura, CA are big and clean (though pretty plain).

[bobphilo]

I do have three grown kids and I would on occasion (Del Mar only) take them to the track for the day. None of them showed any interest in the game at all and still don't care to this day. I even used to try and help them with fractions by showing them how to handicap. Maybe that was a big mistake!:D

I think you had the right idea. Too bad it didn't work out. Fortunately, I have had the opposite experience in my life. Back in Jr. High, like all pre-teens, I hated all things mathematical. Then one day my mom took me to the track (Aqueduct) and I discovered the racing form and learned that numbers (speed figures) could tell things about horses and racing - my 2 great loves in life. They could also tell me all kinds of stuff about people and everything else. I was hooked for life and ended up years later doing graduate work in and teaching statistics and research methods. I guess one has to love racing to begin with for it to work.

[bobphilo]

This doesn't surprise me, unfortunately.

The OTBs I've seen in person aren't terribly hospitable places to spend an afternoon. A couple exceptions...the OTBs at Del Mar (Surfside) and up in Ventura, CA are big and clean (though pretty plain).

I remember the OTB parlors in NYC (before it went bankrupt) tended to be rather sleazy places, with some exceptions, depending on the neighborhood.

[Afleet]

Oh Zippy please don’t take my comments personally. I certainly wouldn’t want to deter you from introducing so many thought provoking and enlightening topics. I hope you won’t mind if I pass on posting on those which I find so thoroughly uninformative as they pertain to the game itself.

I agree w/this. Board getting hard to read

[clicknow]

the only time that you ever endeavored to give us a realistic and "constructive" demonstration here...your Hong Kong betting presentation went so horribly awry that you brought the experiment to a sudden and unceremonious end...and you hid away in embarrassment for a considerable amount of time...only to return here when you thought that we had forgotten about your prior wagering debacle.

wow. I guess you don't read the selections topics much.

If people knew that their picks, which I assume they post in order to help other horseplayers (not a chest-beating one-upmanship exercise)
, were being scrutinized to the point where if they didn't show huge profits, and/or winning picks, that they should somehow be embarassed about it........ then I doubt they'd be posting 'em.

The best topic on this board (IMHO) is probably the longshot play along topic. That is where I was posting when I first came here, and the reason I joined. I will probably just go back to that mostly, beccause it's a place where horse players actually congratulate each other when they win, there's a whole lot of comraderie, and nobody has EVER made a snide remark about anyone's picks in that topic.

I haven't seen any of Nitro's wagers, I have only seen his topics on the positives of horse racing in Hong Kong, and why it is better for bettors in so many ways (and that is true). If anything, he is sharing and introducing a positive experience to share with others, i.e. that they might enjoy it.

And, perhaps he is right about Zippy Chippy. Really, it's a downer reading his topics, there is never anything positive or uplifting about them at all.

I have been too busy lately to follow my virtual stable, but if I have a horse I think might be a $30 winner, I would post it up,..........not to be right, but to help other players make a few bucks. I thought that was the whole point of a forum? That, and to discuss races for angles, etc. and ways we can not only improve our ROI, but to improve the game/sport overall???

[clicknow]

I just got back from my 1st trip to Saratoga and was in heaven as everywhere I went, and I'm not exaggerating , people asked "are you going to the track?" or "how did you do today?"

It's a boutqiue meet. Nobody would otherwise BE in Saratoga (except hikers and campers maybe) if there wasn't a horse racing meet. :)

DURING that meet, it becomes a "horse racing town". That's also the entire economic "windfall" for a town that is normally rural and somewhat economically depressed. Believe me, normal people who live there aren't having $18 martinis at those tony bar restaurants in January. They are depending on the deep pocket metro / urban types to come and spend.


Oaklawn is similar in the way boutique meets are, to an extent.. It's always been a horse racing town historically, but during the meet (which is longer than SAR) it is not unusual to go on a big race Saturday and there are 30K people there. You go in waffle house and people are reading DRF, etc. The rest of the town in a way also lives around the racing season, too, because the traffic on Central Ave.. is so bad in front of the racetrack on weekends, everyone not into racing plans their errands for different days or takes an alternate route. People move here in retirement just to enjoy the national parks and horse racing.

You can't really say the same about tracks that run mostly year round. It's just not the same. And many of them are in kinda dangerous run down areas, etc.

[jahura2]

It's a boutqiue meet. Nobody would otherwise BE in Saratoga (except hikers and campers maybe) if there wasn't a horse racing meet. :)

DURING that meet, it becomes a "horse racing town". That's also the entire economic "windfall" for a town that is normally rural and somewhat economically depressed. Believe me, normal people who live there aren't having $18 martinis at those tony bar restaurants in January. They are depending on the deep pocket metro / urban types to come and spend.


Oaklawn is similar in the way boutique meets are, to an extent.. It's always been a horse racing town historically, but during the meet (which is longer than SAR) it is not unusual to go on a big race Saturday and there are 30K people there. You go in waffle house and people are reading DRF, etc. The rest of the town in a way also lives around the racing season, too, because the traffic on Central Ave.. is so bad in front of the racetrack on weekends, everyone not into racing plans their errands for different days or takes an alternate route. People move here in retirement just to enjoy the national parks and horse racing.

You can't really say the same about tracks that run mostly year round. It's just not the same. And many of them are in kinda dangerous run down areas, etc.
I probably didn't make my point well. even during the Keeneland meets in April and October (also boutique meets) there is little racing talk here in Lexington. Just discussions of tailgates, who you saw and are going with, and stupid incessant talk about Ky basketball. I expect more in the heart of the breeding and racing industry. At least at Saratoga people actually talked racing during the live meet.