Thoughts on $95 Quick Horse/Free Data handicapping software?

[UnifiedTheory]

Hi guys, I'm new to the thoroughbred handicapping scene and to this forum.


I've downloaded a free trial of the Quick Horse software (by Quick Reckoning) and I'm enjoying using it so far. The free database that goes back 5 years makes it unusual to say the least. Unfortunately the interface is small and rather ugly but it functions quickly and overall the software can be customized many different ways. It seems to have value but then again I have a lot to learn. (This software was first made available in 2003.)


I'm highly interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on Quick Horse and/or the viability of it's free data.


I'm glad to be a new member on this forum.


Thank you in advance for your replies.

[Nutz and Boltz]

Review here...
https://download.cnet.com/QuickHorse/3000-2130_4-10596953.html

[UnifiedTheory]

Thanks Nutz & Boltz but I've already read those reviews. It was actually the second of the two user reviews which convinced me to give the product a try.


I appreciate your response.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hi guys, I'm new to the thoroughbred handicapping scene and to this forum.


I've downloaded a free trial of the Quick Horse software (by Quick Reckoning) and I'm enjoying using it so far. The free database that goes back 5 years makes it unusual to say the least. Unfortunately the interface is small and rather ugly but it functions quickly and overall the software can be customized many different ways. It seems to have value but then again I have a lot to learn. (This software was first made available in 2003.)


I'm highly interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on Quick Horse and/or the viability of it's free data.


I'm glad to be a new member on this forum.


Thank you in advance for your replies.Pardon me, but you sound like a shill. And not just because your very first post is about this software (though that helps....a lot!)

From your post, we know that the software has a free trial AND a FREE DATABASE that goes back 5 years (has this been authorized by Equibase?) I didn't realize Equibase allowed software makers to include 5 years of data...luckily, Equibase posts and reads this board, so I'm sure they'll be able to verify.

We've also learned from your post that it's been around a long time (2003), so we can trust it's not some fly-by-night operation.

All in all, I'm betting you either own or work for the company in some regard.

No need to answer.

[thaskalos]

Well...he did say that the interface is small and rather ugly...

[UnifiedTheory]

Wow I'm surprised by such negativity.


I get why you might think I'm a shill in a way but why would a shill say the interface is small and ugly or for that matter say he's so new to the scene he doesn't really know much about software at all?! Whatever, I'm new and I'm just trying to figure out my handicapping direction.



I became interested in handicapping thoroughbreds just five weeks ago. I spent three weeks primarily using Betmix (no I'm not paid to say that either) and I've spent the past two weeks using Quick Horse. I'm leaning heavily towards buying Horse Street Handicapper because of everything positive I've read about it.



Have a nice day. :coffee:

[Dave Schwartz]

I'm leaning heavily towards buying Horse Street Handicapper because of everything positive I've read about it.

Have a nice day. :coffee:

Now you're talking!

Better hurry though. October 1st the price goes back to $1,597.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow I'm surprised by such negativity.


I get why you might think I'm a shill in a way but why would a shill say the interface is small and ugly or for that matter say he's so new to the scene he doesn't really know much about software at all?! Whatever, I'm new and I'm just trying to figure out my handicapping direction.



I became interested in handicapping thoroughbreds just five weeks ago. I spent three weeks primarily using Betmix (no I'm not paid to say that either) and I've spent the past two weeks using Quick Horse. I'm leaning heavily towards buying Horse Street Handicapper because of everything positive I've read about it.



Have a nice day. :coffee:Well, at least you get why I might think you're a shill...95% of the time, posts like that are just that...but maybe you're in the other 5%.

Either way, don't expect that free 5yrs of data to be given away much longer once Equibase sees that post.

[FakeNameChanged]

Hi guys, I'm new to the thoroughbred handicapping scene and to this forum.


I've downloaded a free trial of the Quick Horse software (by Quick Reckoning) and I'm enjoying using it so far. The free database that goes back 5 years makes it unusual to say the least. Unfortunately the interface is small and rather ugly but it functions quickly and overall the software can be customized many different ways. It seems to have value but then again I have a lot to learn. (This software was first made available in 2003.)


I'm highly interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on Quick Horse and/or the viability of it's free data.


I'm glad to be a new member on this forum.


Thank you in advance for your replies.

Welcome to Pace Advantage. Let's see what the top review says,

EDITORS' REVIEW BY DOWNLOAD.COM STAFF / JULY 21, 2010
Many people who go to the racetrack are casual gamblers, placing bets based on the horses' names or their lucky numbers. Then there are those who take handicapping a little more seriously. QuickHorse '10 Horse Racing Software is designed for those serious handicappers, and not only because it assumes that users already have a fundamental understanding of how horseracing and wagering works. We can imagine only the most hardcore racing fans taking the time to wade through this program's abstruse interface and difficult navigation.

The program was designed with neither form nor function in mind. All of the text is capitalized, and if that weren't hard enough to read, it's also displayed in several garish colors on a dark gray background. The program's navigation takes place entirely via the use of buttons, and since it's incapable of scrolling, some parts of the interface are inaccessible. More than once we found ourselves trapped in a part of the program that we couldn't get out of, with no choice but to shut it down and start over. To say that we were not impressed with the program's interface would be a grave understatement.

It's unfortunate that the program is so difficult to navigate, because it does seem to contain some useful features. Users can view both past performances and upcoming race cards, and while the program can download free information from Brisnet, it also supports the use of paid subscription sites for users who are already members. Users can employ a variety of predefined handicapping methods or enter a custom method, and the program will print tipsheets for the day's card. The online Help file--which opens automatically in Internet Explorer regardless of whether it's your default browser-- is fairly detailed, and does a decent enough job of explaining the program to those who are patient enough to use it. Overall, though, we don't think that QuickHorse is easy to use enough for us to recommend.

So you're new to handicapping and this review, the top one, gave you confidence? According to that web site you linked, this software was released August 2018, but maybe that's just the latest version?

[CheckMark]

Welcome to Pace Advantage! In a HONEST REVIEW I think you should not buy that software. Tried and was difficult to put in the work for all the different categories that the software offered and if you want to check out my results for it I did use it recently at Belmont and found only 2 winners and a few place horses. It’s up to you if you want to put in the work for it but if you want to try a much better software, you should try RDSS. Ted and I have went back a forth for all the questions I had and I have had success with it too! Again, up to you man!

[mikesal57]

Pardon me, but you sound like a shill. And not just because your very first post is about this software (though that helps....a lot!)

From your post, we know that the software has a free trial AND a FREE DATABASE that goes back 5 years (has this been authorized by Equibase?) I didn't realize Equibase allowed software makers to include 5 years of data...luckily, Equibase posts and reads this board, so I'm sure they'll be able to verify.

We've also learned from your post that it's been around a long time (2003), so we can trust it's not some fly-by-night operation.

All in all, I'm betting you either own or work for the company in some regard.

No need to answer.

BIG MOUTH!!!!!

Now for sure the Data Police is coming

[Red Knave]

Either way, don't expect that free 5yrs of data to be given away much longer once Equibase sees that post.They've been around a long time. Maybe they create their own database from result charts?

[Mr.XXX]

I use this... and have used practically all commercial software out there.
OP not shilling.
Program scrapes free data and gives it away as database... guy makes his own pars n variants. Or you can use Bris data(or the jcapper version).
Program has everything other programs have, BUT requires a lot of digging thru and tinkering. A steep learning curve. Then again, it's practically free. I Use it along with TIMEFORM. Nothing else needed... IF you thoroughly scour and learn it.
You can do database queries, sartin pace, form charting, etc.
Buutttt you have to spend time and force yourself to dig through it.
Different things work at different tracks.
It's a stick shift, but if you learn it, you can do things other programs can't.
If you use it casually without learning the details and features, you will lose money and blame the program.

[mikesal57]

I use this... and have used practically all commercial software out there.
OP not shilling.
Program scrapes free data and gives it away as database... guy makes his own pars n variants. Or you can use Bris data(or the jcapper version).
Program has everything other programs have, BUT requires a lot of digging thru and tinkering. A steep learning curve. Then again, it's practically free. I Use it along with TIMEFORM. Nothing else needed... IF you thoroughly scour and learn it.
You can do database queries, sartin pace, form charting, etc.
Buutttt you have to spend time and force yourself to dig through it.
Different things work at different tracks.
It's a stick shift, but if you learn it, you can do things other programs can't.
If you use it casually without learning the details and features, you will lose money and blame the program.

Can you export all their data to a spreadsheet?

[PaceAdvantage]

BIG MOUTH!!!!!

Now for sure the Data Police is comingLook man, I didn't create this thread. Blame the OP.

[biggestal99]

Pace-view platinum is number one for laying horses.

Allan

[mikesal57]

Pace-view platinum is number one for laying horses.

Allan


My God....you are one sick dude.........:lol:


Mike

[Mr.XXX]

Can you export all their data to a spreadsheet?

Yes sir.
Also, those who are adept at scripting n databases (I'm not), can change / create new types of queries, and the various columns within the program.

[castaway01]

Pace-view platinum is number one for laying horses.

Allan

We know you like the exchange Allan, you've said it 10,000 times, but these details about your personal life are going too far. Keep it behind closed doors.

[Mr.XXX]

It's free to try full featured 30 days, can even ask for a second 30 days.
MIGHT use if for years before learning it completely.
$95 yearly best bargain in horse racing.

[UnifiedTheory]

Welcome to Pace Advantage! In a HONEST REVIEW I think you should not buy that software. Tried and was difficult to put in the work for all the different categories that the software offered and if you want to check out my results for it I did use it recently at Belmont and found only 2 winners and a few place horses. It’s up to you if you want to put in the work for it but if you want to try a much better software, you should try RDSS. Ted and I have went back a forth for all the questions I had and I have had success with it too! Again, up to you man!


Thanks for your reply CheckMark.


I actually decided to try HTR. I've only been checking out HTR software since yesterday so I've got a lot left to discover. And Ken has be giving me great customer service and terrific support.


I'm still on the fence though. I'm starting to wonder how HTR compares to RDSS or if I should forget both of them and buy HSH before the price skyrockets to $1600 by Oct 1/2018?


Thoughts? :cool:

[CheckMark]

Thanks for your reply CheckMark.


I actually decided to try HTR. I've only been checking out HTR software since yesterday so I've got a lot left to discover. And Ken has be giving me great customer service and terrific support.


I'm still on the fence though. I'm starting to wonder how HTR compares to RDSS or if I should forget both of them and buy HSH before the price skyrockets to $1600 by Oct 1/2018?


Thoughts? :cool:


Well, I have tried both which is great news. HTR has different rankings like Pedigree, Jockey/Trainer rankings, KRating, few others, it was a sort of simple way to handicap, but I enjoyed it, just wanted to switch since I was in school! The reason I have RDSS is that Ted gave me a trial run for it and gave it to me to test out and pick races on my own The only difference is that RDSS is based on the Sartin Methodology, which is determining the horses velocity, pace and incremental energy, disbursement and deceleration. In my opinion, RDSS is a slight better because a) you can easily download the data straight from the software and 2) Ted is a AWESOME teacher with his knowing of the software and also if you need help he is there! Take whatever you like and are comfortable with! Good luck sir!



PS. To get the software data off of trackmaster, it costs (for 20 downloads) the year price is $300.00, and for the unlimited plan for the year costs $1,200. So the price difference is $400 cheaper with RDSS.

[ubercapper]

Look man, I didn't create this thread. Blame the OP.


This line in an earlier post in the thread "Program scrapes free data and gives it away as database" points to a clear violation of the terms of use of the web sites from which the information is obtained.



Most if not all sports web sites, including those in the racing industry, contains language the information is for personal, noncommercial use and may not be transferred or distributed in any way, as well as stating any use of robots, spiders and scrapers are prohibited.



This shouldn't be that hard to understand.

[Mr.XXX]

This line in an earlier post in the thread "Program scrapes free data and gives it away as database" points to a clear violation of the terms of use of the web sites from which the information is obtained.



Most if not all sports web sites, including those in the racing industry, contains language the information is for personal, noncommercial use and may not be transferred or distributed in any way, as well as stating any use of robots, spiders and scrapers are prohibited.



This shouldn't be that hard to understand.
















As Johnny Carson used to say.

Anyhow...
Sports results are in the public domain; in fact, data providers give away charts results as free downloads. Many users collect them, import them into databases(hard to do with pdf, but doable), slice them and dice them, etc.

The results are NOT being resold.
NO proprietary figures / formulas from the data providers are used AT ALL. And in fact, the lack of that makes the data kinda lacking. Users that want better buy their own data files and import them into the program.

I do find something hard to understand:

Putting aside technicalities...what is YOUR agenda here?
What do YOU wish to accomplish?
HOW are you helping promote the game here?
WHAT are you gaining from this?

PS I'm just a private bettor and have zero connections to the software provider.
But the poor guy works his tail off, gives lengthy free trial, then practically gives it away for $90...he has no fallback of a big salary for yakking away from some industry behemoth.

[ubercapper]

Sports results are in the public domain; in fact, data providers give away charts results as free downloads. Many users collect them, import them into databases(hard to do with pdf, but doable), slice them and dice them, etc.

The results are NOT being resold.



Re: Sports results are in the public domain.

There is usually a misunderstanding when a generalized statement like this is made, because although some racing information is factual (some examples being finish position, odds and payoffs), some of it is subjective information which is the product of someone's work, a few examples being internal positions and lengths ahead/behind. These are not in the public domain.



Additionally, charts may be available for free but their mere availability does not place them in the public domain, and use of the data is still subject to terms of use.



Re: The results not being sold.

It appears this is not the case here because whatever the fee is, it entitles the user access to the data which was scraped.

[PaceAdvantage]

PS I'm just a private bettor and have zero connections to the software provider.
But the poor guy works his tail off, gives lengthy free trial, then practically gives it away for $90...he has no fallback of a big salary for yakking away from some industry behemoth.Or, in other words, he's making a buck off of somebody else's hard work and investment (Equibase)....one could say that now, couldn't one, if one were to examine all sides of the coin.

[Mr.XXX]

Technicalities, Schtechnicalities.

Maybe the software is downloading individually for each user, at the provider's site...thus rendering my initial description erroneous(And again, most people import pay data with it, which is tons superior).

There is Fair Use too. And Frivolous Action.

I can't see any court rendering any potential Equibase action in their favor-- here, Public at large, you can eat the results for free...but only from my spoon & recipe...one mouthful at a time, no simultaneous mouthfuls...don't alter the flavor / add your own seasonings.

Don't shed any tears for Equibase, it was created by the Jockey Club to promote horse racing customer base and handle.
It doesn't compare to a private DRF, HDW, ITS, BRIS, etc...that can claim at least loss of potential revenue.

And have you been recently to the Equibase site? It's almost unusable with the ton of adware and security measures!
Firstly, you need a top of the line Android flagship or loaded Windows computer for a semi-decent surfing experience there.
Then, once you take care of that issue, you have to overcome ridiculous tricky captchas and lengthy puzzle solving both on initial entry and at random while already working at the site...seemingy triggered once you click more than a couple of different pdf results or database queries.
We need Bill Nader to be head of the Jockey Club, or at least of Equibase.

Anyhow,
back to what's the point of all this? It's akin to squashing squirrels or pigeons at the park. The software sells for peanuts(folks debate whether to spend this tiny amount, even with lengthy & full free trial :bang:), and free data is not sold-- it's more used to gauge the potential of the paid data.

I'LL GIVE AWAY ONE SECRET:
Some of you ol' geezers who relied on fig providers way back in the day when there were only one or two around, and suffered a service interruption...forcing you to rely on raw times(+other factors, to compensate)...will really understand this.

I have multiple installations and compare different provider figs(fyi the Bris module will accept JCapper Silver data, for those wishing to do better than mechanized numbers) including TimeForm & the free data # for example.

A fair amount of times most numbers will agree or not be so far off from each other, including the free data number.
Other times, the latter assigns a worse number than the paid...and it is right less often than the others, as it should be.
SOMETIMES, most paid #'s concur(or are in similar range) BUT the free number differs to the high, assigning what looks to be too good #(either much the best, or much the second best despite large ML), usually at a big price. This is a great moneymaker in the horizontals and the lower slots of verticals.

PS QH has a pick auto selection algorithm that throws positive ROI "especially when you edit some of the paceline selection criteria and weighted factors to better suit the particular race type".

[Mr.XXX]

...Quick Horse software (by Quick Reckoning)..the interface is small and rather ugly

That's because you haven't done even the basics(same as the negative reviewer)...have you clicked through the menu bar? It's huge....you can edit the colors of columns, background & text... you can set the program different sizes up to full screen...It opens up small initially-- the trend is to work on phone, tablet, small laptop these days-- looks like any other high res program when you enlarge it / it's no ancient low res program.

You can add, remove, edit or create brand new any of the columns.

I suggest you revisit all the tutorials at least twice, and more important-- click every single command, method, filter, script, tool, sort by, etc. within the program. You won't break anything, all have help files and examples/starter scripts...can always revert to default. ..

You can go to the next level by taking a free scripting in windows tutorial(google it). Ditto for working with databases.
While you learn all that you can use the pace module(brohamer bpace in Methods, then click Sort By and add all the different Sartin segments) and pp's inside it. In Filters select your auto paceline preferences...can also manually select paceline(s).... You can use its picks, edit the criteria for its pick calculations....

It may take months to learn everything-- but will be worth it. You can do anything you want with the program...just about anything you can think of.

$95 is like basically free, but you need to be the self-starter type. You can pay more for other programs, which will hold your hand more, but will be much more limited in scope and function.
Another thing-- the folk who have their little gold mine going will either be afraid to divulge, or too busy to post.
You have to "go get it" with this software.

[Buckeye]

Thank you Sir for explaining the general theory of physics.

Now I truly do know it all.

[UnifiedTheory]

I use this... and have used practically all commercial software out there.
OP not shilling.
Program scrapes free data and gives it away as database... guy makes his own pars n variants. Or you can use Bris data(or the jcapper version).
Program has everything other programs have, BUT requires a lot of digging thru and tinkering. A steep learning curve. Then again, it's practically free. I Use it along with TIMEFORM. Nothing else needed... IF you thoroughly scour and learn it.
You can do database queries, sartin pace, form charting, etc.
Buutttt you have to spend time and force yourself to dig through it.
Different things work at different tracks.
It's a stick shift, but if you learn it, you can do things other programs can't.
If you use it casually without learning the details and features, you will lose money and blame the program.






Mr. XXX - I agree now with everything you've said about Quick Horse. And I think you've accurately described QH's unique position in the handicapping software marketplace.


I regret hastily saying the interface is small and rather ugly. The interface window sizing cannot be adjusted properly during initial setup but once that's complete the interface can be made full size through the edit part of the menu bar. And while the interface could look better...so could I. :D The main thing is it's functionality.


I'm still new to this hobby, but overall I'm thinking Quick Horse is in the Top 5 or at least in the Top 10 of all thoroughbred handicapping software at a small fraction of the usual prices. :headbanger: In my humble opinion.

[oughtoh]

My problem with it was if I uploaded it in the hotel room, and then turn computer off, when I got to the sports book I have to reload it again. Some of their wifi is not the best.

[JJMartin]

Maybe the poll question would be better posed as:


If you have Software ABC, What is your avg ROI?
And then provide several options for ranges.


Otherwise software XYZ might appear to be garbage but only because not that many people used it.

[UnifiedTheory]

Maybe the poll question would be better posed as:


If you have Software ABC, What is your avg ROI?
And then provide several options for ranges.


Otherwise software XYZ might appear to be garbage but only because not that many people used it.




Excellent point. I will keep that in mind for future polls.

[jimmyb]

I've been using this for about a month, and yes, there surely is a learning curve but worth the effort IMO. As another poster stated, it is a bargain.

[incoming]

I'm not a quick horse user. I was a quick dog user for at least 5 years and I am familiar with Mike Groves work. Quick dog was also very quirky with a very long learning curve. I do remember a few years back that a QH user took the time to list many of the quirks, the post should be in the archives. Mike Groves is very helpful about his software programs. I would contact him and ask for a report of any bugs that haven't been repaired and any information he has on hand that might help.

[Sea Hero]

Pardon me, but you sound like a shill. And not just because your very first post is about this software (though that helps....a lot!)




If I remember correctly, Mike Groves (Quickhorse) was an authorized advertiser here not that long ago. Why would he bother to shill his software after that?

The free data from Quickhorse doesn't need Equibase authorization. It doesn't use an Equibase product for its data, and its ratings are all home-made. Mr. Groves has been doing the same exact thing for many years, and if it was against Equibase's terms of service, they would have shut him down a long time ago.

Now before I get accused of being a shill, I'll offer my own review of QuickHorse, which isn't favorable.

It offers free data (ongoing for the price of the yearly subscription, also the entire data set can be downloaded with the 30 day trial). The user can also use Brisnet "single" files, which the user has to supply, in order to get some Brisnet ratings instead of home-brewed ones.

The software is very pedestrian. It's a crude reinvention of several old wheels. The software comes with several pre-built "columns" which are simplified uses of one factor or another, and some "methods" that are comglamerations of said columns. For personal systems, a simplified version of Reverse Polish Notation is used to input personal systems/columns/methods. Users can input differentials between column ratings to achieve a higher win percentage. Testing is done on a track-by-track basis. There's no way that I ever found to test multiple tracks at once.

The net result of all of this is that the free version will achieve a modest win percentage, and the ROI with the free data will be in the range of 15-25% loss on almost everything. I tried 90 days of BRIS files, and that improved the win percentage some, but the ROI seldom got better than a 15% loss. In other words, the software sucks for making money. It's a nice toy for those who want to fool around with their own systems or those provided, and test them by track over a long period of time, but it isn't a tool to use for profitable play, and it isn't close.

Mr. Groves has another product, for greyhounds, that uses the same interface and pulls data from freely available greyhound programs. It's known as Quickdog. That software does better, mainly because there's virtually no competition for it, but it also has trouble reaching profitability, since pools are small and shrinking every year, and almost everybody who still seriously plays greyhounds is using the software.

[jimmyb]

I started using the quick horse in September. After the 30 day trial, decided to go for the year. I spent a good month getting aquainted with the software. On the 19th of October, Using the free data, I started a test $250.00 bankroll, spot playing to win. I started with $5.00 win bets and have increased it to $10.00. The bankroll now stands at $502.65


It's too early for excitement but it holds potential.

[ubercapper]

If I remember correctly, Mike Groves (Quickhorse) was an authorized advertiser here not that long ago. Why would he bother to shill his software after that?

The free data from Quickhorse doesn't need Equibase authorization. It doesn't use an Equibase product for its data, and its ratings are all home-made. Mr. Groves has been doing the same exact thing for many years, and if it was against Equibase's terms of service, they would have shut him down a long time ago.




The data that is being provided was derived from a source such as DRF, BRIS, Equibase, TrackMaster, HDW or another authorized reseller.



Every authorized reseller has "Terms of Use," "Terms and Conditions" and/or a "Subscriber Agreement" which specifically states the data is for personal use only and cannot be redistributed. Anything other than personal use requires permission, which means a license.



Just because someone hasn't been shut down does not mean they are not violating the agreements they entered into when they obtained the data.

[UnifiedTheory]

I appreciate the opinions and test results very much.


I've since moved on to the RDSS software which in my humble opinion is much better software with a much more enjoyable learning curve.


Happy trails!

[PaceAdvantage]

If I remember correctly, Mike Groves (Quickhorse) was an authorized advertiser here not that long ago. Why would he bother to shill his software after that?Not that I recall...if he was, it was a LONG time ago....

[Sea Hero]

Not that I recall...if he was, it was a LONG time ago....

It was a while back. By his posts (username quickhorse) he must have bought advertising for 2015.