SoCal Racing - Very disturbing story!

[cj]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=24221

Read it and weep...

[Equineer]

Roy C. Wood Jr., the board's executive director, also began bypassing stewards hearings and cutting deals directly with the trainers as a way to save money after a series of contested cases ended up in drawn-out litigation that ate into the CHRB's approximately $8.5-million annual budget. The CHRB is defended in these cases by state deputy attorneys general who bill the CHRB for their time and expenses.The crux of the problem lies in the last sentence.

Who do the state attorneys bill when convicted murderers and rapists are trying to appeal their way out of prison? By California logic, I guess maybe the families of the victims should be billed. :eek:

[Dave Schwartz]

CJ,

>>By California logic, I guess maybe the families of the victims should be billed.<<

Indirectly, they do.

Dave

[Dancer's Image]

This whole issue needs to be reevaluated. I'm all for eliminating "performance enhancing" drugs, but other than EPO, I can't think of what they, "performance enhancing" drugs, are. I don't know, are anabolic steroids performance enhancing, for horses?

The 5 substances mentioned in the article, Acepromazine (a tranquilizer similar to Thorazine), Morphine (a narcotic pain killer), Clenbuterol (a bronchodilator), meprobamate (a minor tranquilizer), and mouthwash are not performance enhancing drugs! With the obvious exception of mouthwash, they are therapeutic drugs, ie. they treat genuine medical conditions. If the horse has one of these genuine medical conditions, then administering these drugs to the horse may help him run better. And why shouldn't we treat genuine medical conditions in horses like we do in humans? If the horse does not have one of these medical conditions, these drugs are not going to help the horse run better.

We do need a list of banned drugs, but just because we develop the test to detect a certain drug, that doesn't mean we have to include that substance on the banned list. Like I said, we need an industry wide reevaluation of this whole issue.

[Zaf]

Hey anything goes in So.Cal , we know that. Its like the Wild West. Drugs, Sponges, Breakdowns and track employees trampled during the races. If Baffert or Mullins come up with a positive test, they convienently forget about the suspension or hearing.

Heck, Frank Monteleone still has his training license :eek: :eek: :eek:

ZAFONIC

[RXB]

Frankel. Baffert. Mitchell. Mullins. Glatt.

Anybody surprised that those names surfaced in this story?

As far as the specific drugs go, well, morphine might not be a performance-enhancing drug, but if it is being used to dull pain then I don't think that the animal should be in the race. If you allow infirm animals to race, you're just begging for dead jockeys and dead horses.

I feel badly for the horsemen who play by the rules, who do what is best for their horses, and are getting beaten by the cheaters.

[Dancer's Image]

RXB posted...

As far as the specific drugs go, well, morphine might not be a performance-enhancing drug, but if it is being used to dull pain then I don't think that the animal should be in the race. If you allow infirm animals to race, you're just begging for dead jockeys and dead horses.

...but that's a pretty gray area, don't you think, RXB? I mean really, how do you prove that a horse is in pain? And if a horse is in pain, should we not treat that pain? And if a horse runs and wins a race, how can you say that the horse was infirm and shouldn't have been allowed to race in the first place? And if you eliminate all drugs, and have a bevy of vets all check and clear every horse before every race, you still will have horses breaking down and accidents with both horses and jockeys....it's the nature of the game!

I'm not saying I have all the answers, I'm just saying there are a lot of questions that need further thought.

[Figman]

What happens to future generations of racing thoroughbreds if we breed "drug dependent" stallions to "drug dependent" mares?

Are these offspring unsound?
Do they race less?
Are breakdowns more common?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[BillW]

There is also quite a difference in treating ailing horses while laid up and running them on pain masking drugs.

Bill

[Dancer's Image]

Figman,
Drug dependency is not an inherited trait. There is also quite a difference between drug dependency, where withholding the drug from the drug dependent animal prodices physical signs of withdrawl, and treating an animal with a drug. No one is advocating creating drug dependent animals.

Bill W,
I agree that there is quite a difference between treating ailing horses while laid up and running them on pain masking drugs. But what exactly is the difference? And I'm being serious when I ask that question. For instance, 1) is it okay to give an ailing horse a pain medication while laid up? 2) Is it okay to treat pain in a horse that is racing?

If you answer yes to 1), then why shouldn't we treat an animal that is racing? I'm not saying you are wrong, I'd just like to hear your answers.

[delayjf]

To the best of my knowledge. Steroids are a legal drugs for thoroughbreds. Clenbuterol has the same effects as ephedrine, only stronger, I believe it also has some anabolic properties as well (muscle sparing).

I know one trainer on the SoCal circuit who claims that the big reason Ted West was winning all those races a few years ago was clenbuterol. I've heard that Mike Mitchell give his horses injectons of novacaine in their knees.

Problem is, how do we know when they are getting the drugs and when they are not? I'd say that the CHRB needs to simply hire their own legal team and pay them a Salary. How many lawyers does 8.5 million buy.:confused:

[BillW]

Re. performing with drugs

I don't know the whole answer. With humans we have the benefit of feedback from the athlete. I have no problem making a horse comfortable, but when we cannot differentiate between simple discomfort and pain that is a harbinger of injury, we should exercise extreme caution and not allow the horse to run.

The absolute banning of pain masking drugs is an effective way of avoiding the subjectivity that is sure to occur in making these decision.

Bill

[so.cal.fan]

:(
sad commentary............I wish I could defend our racing.....I can not.

[GameTheory]

We do breed drug-dependent animals already, except not quite literally. We are not breeding animals that are actually addicted to drugs, but we are breeding animals that can only run well with Lasix, etc because they are bleeders. If we didn't allow any race-day medication at all, animals that couldn't perform without drugs wouldn't produce offspring and the breed would be much hardier. This would also make it impossible to use a legal drug to mask an illegal one because they'd all be illegal.

[Valuist]

I think RXB put it best. The guys who do play be the rules are really screwed over by the Mullins of the world.

[RXB]

I'm not sure what 'grey area' there could possibly be regarding morphine. It is a powerful narcotic that should be administered only when significant pain is present. Any horse that has recently been shot up with morphine has no business being entered into a race.

[kenwoodallpromos]

At GGF they admitted too many breakdowns and injuries were caused by sealing the track (hard track) for the rain; but that was BS because it did not rain too much.
The racing industry knows the harder the track, the more injuries; but they want to please handicappers, and want to vary the track speed to make races less predictable.
If they want to decrease the need for painkillers, they would need to run deeper tracks more often.
Do the fastest track have the worst drug problems?

[Valuist]

I think this story sounds worse when you first read it. Haven't we all suspected Mullins of drugging? And Mitchell? Frankel has a lot of high quality stock but even he has had some dramatic form turnarounds and he got his start as a claiming trainer. I know there's a number of trainers I suspect are drugging on the Chicago, Kentucky and New York circuits. I'm not going to name any names but I'll give you one hint. I definitely wasn't surprised when one big name was recently sat down for 15 days.

In the early 90s, Noel Hickey absolutely dominated Arlington. One year he won with something like 45% of his turf starters. He would eventually win a Breeders Cup race w/Bucks Boy. But he got caught drugging. His win percentage now? He may be around 10%. Don't think it couldn't happen to Mullins.

[Dancer's Image]

Delayjf posted...

To the best of my knowledge. Steroids are a legal drugs for thoroughbreds. Clenbuterol has the same effects as ephedrine, only stronger, I believe it also has some anabolic properties as well (muscle sparing).

...interesting! I looked up Clenbuterol and one site said it had anabolic properties and another said it didn't! But you say that anabolic steroids are legal for thoroughbreds anyway, so why not just use anabolic steroids then? I had assumed that Clenbuterol was just like Albuterol, which humans use for asthma.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
This whole issue needs to be reevaluated. I'm all for eliminating "performance enhancing" drugs, but other than EPO, I can't think of what they, "performance enhancing" drugs, are. I don't know, are anabolic steroids performance enhancing, for horses?

The 5 substances mentioned in the article, Acepromazine (a tranquilizer similar to Thorazine), Morphine (a narcotic pain killer), Clenbuterol (a bronchodilator), meprobamate (a minor tranquilizer), and mouthwash are not performance enhancing drugs! With the obvious exception of mouthwash, they are therapeutic drugs, ie. they treat genuine medical conditions. If the horse has one of these genuine medical conditions, then administering these drugs to the horse may help him run better. And why shouldn't we treat genuine medical conditions in horses like we do in humans? If the horse does not have one of these medical conditions, these drugs are not going to help the horse run better.

We do need a list of banned drugs, but just because we develop the test to detect a certain drug, that doesn't mean we have to include that substance on the banned list. Like I said, we need an industry wide reevaluation of this whole issue.

Hey Dancer!
I disagree and agree with you,Ventipulmin (clembuterol) is a paformence enhancment drug. For a horse that has never been on it!!.You give this to a horse 5 days 10cc then have to have him off it 5 days before a race (state rules florida) This will make a horse run faster because like you say is a bronchiolator and enables them to run faster.Beleive it or not, I have given 10cc to a horse before a work instead of lasix and horse worked fine and didnt bleed...so that told me it did help him,I dont know why a guy would trank his horse before a race (shady??) Very easy to blame the ast trainer.I detest these kind of rules that they have in Cali.If you do the crime you do the time,I also think that just fineing a trainer for drug infractions is way out of control,Yes it will invite more shady guys to drug their horses and know they are only going to get fined.As for these so called "Milkshakes".More crap!! Most of the above drugs are used on a every ay basis and most trainers heed to the rules that go with them.There will always be someone trying to make that fast buck, Forgeting that he is hurting the integrity of racing.

[cj]

I think we've gotten off topic here, I think the main point of the article is how drug infractions are just given a slap on the wrist without the stewards even having a chance to intervene. What a sham SoCal racing is becoming!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Why not fine the owners the amount of the winner's share? A cheating or negligent trainer will lose owners or fly right.

[Valuist]

Owners are hit with enough charges. Its hard enough to encourage new people to enter ownership with $18K/year in upfront costs (more in some locales). Go after the trainers. If they tell a rider to use a buzzer guess who gets caught and who comes away w/no punishment?

[Dancer's Image]

Wow....nice thread!!! We got a nice little discussion going here at least.

McSchell,
I'm not sure what part you agree with me and what part you disagree with! LOL But that's okay because I'm not really sure where I stand yet either....I'm just rethinking the issue myself and asking questions. Let's start with Clenbuterol since you mentioned it. When I first heard about Clenbuterol, I assumed it was just like Albuterol, which most of us are familiar with because millions of people use it for their asthma. But now today, I look up Clenbuterol and find that it may have anabolic steroid-like properties! And someone here (I think it was delayjf) said that Clenbuterol acts like Ephedrine. So now you claim that Clenbuterol enhances perfromance, and it may, but you need to say and prove how it enhances perfromance. For example, a superstitious person might claim that rubbing some salve or balm on a horse's legs enhances perfromance, but that does not necessarily mean that the salve/balm actually scientifically enhances perfromance. So how does Clenbuterol enhance performance in a horse? Is it by improving the breathing of the horse? Or is it by its anabolic steroid-like effects? Surely you don't have a problem with giving a horse drugs to improve the horse's breathing? I lost my train of thought....my wife chose now to wanna talk incessantly.....back later.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by Dancer's Image
Wow....nice thread!!! We got a nice little discussion going here at least.

McSchell,
I'm not sure what part you agree with me and what part you disagree with! LOL But that's okay because I'm not really sure where I stand yet either....I'm just rethinking the issue myself and asking questions. Let's start with Clenbuterol since you mentioned it. When I first heard about Clenbuterol, I assumed it was just like Albuterol, which most of us are familiar with because millions of people use it for their asthma. But now today, I look up Clenbuterol and find that it may have anabolic steroid-like properties! And someone here (I think it was delayjf) said that Clenbuterol acts like Ephedrine. So now you claim that Clenbuterol enhances perfromance, and it may, but you need to say and prove how it enhances perfromance. For example, a superstitious person might claim that rubbing some salve or balm on a horse's legs enhances perfromance, but that does not necessarily mean that the salve/balm actually scientifically enhances perfromance. So how does Clenbuterol enhance performance in a horse? Is it by improving the breathing of the horse? Or is it by its anabolic steroid-like effects? Surely you don't have a problem with giving a horse drugs to improve the horse's breathing? I lost my train of thought....my wife chose now to wanna talk incessantly.....back later.

Ventipulmin is a steriod laden drug,Opens the airways by constricting the blood vessels enabling he horse to breath better.If you put a small amount on your finger you feel like you just ate 10 pepermints,Horses also take ALbuterol, We have nibuliazer machines that we use for that.Horses with allergys use this method.I do know for a fact that this drug will make r horse sweat more in the morn as he trains, It also clears infections in the lungs and should not be abused.As for me wanting to help a horse with his breathing..Ask Air Cool

[DJofSD]

While all the drugs mentioned are of concern, I believe the greater concern are the drugs we don't know about. That is, what other drugs are being used and are being masked by the known one?

DJofSD

[Dancer's Image]

McSchell,
Ventipulmin (clenbuterol) is NOT steroid laden...

_
VENTIPULMIN® SYRUP Reference Page

Description

Ventipulmin® Syrup is a colorless, palatable syrup. Clenbuterol (4-amino-alpha-[(tert-butylamino) methyl]-3,5-dichlorobenzyl alcohol hydrochloride), a beta-2-adrenergic agonist, provides bronchodilating properties with minimum effect on the cardiovascular system.

Features

Only FDA-approved solution for reversible respiratory problems.

Treat-to-effect dose schedule provides optimum level of treatment.

Duration of effect from 6 to 8 hours.

Colorless, palatable syrup provides for easy oral administration.

Benefits

Relieves reversible bronchospasm arising from a variety of respiratory conditions.

Increases mucous secretions for improved airway resistance.

Improves mucociliary transport by decreasing thickness of mucous.

....I had to look up Ventipulmin to make sure it was not a mixture of Clenbuterol and a steroid, but here as you can see, it only contains Clenbuterol, which is a Beta-2 adrenergic agonist. And once again, this site makes no reference to any anabolic steroid-like effect of Clenbuterol, so I am still confused as to whether Clenbuterol has anabolic effects or not!

This is the classic drug to be discussing in this thread as I can't understand why it is a banned substance to begin with, (other than the fact that there are other alternatives to use, like Albuterol). Everyone here would like to have their horses or anyone's horses able to breathe?

[Jeff P]

Posted by GameTheory...

We do breed drug-dependent animals already, except not quite literally. We are not breeding animals that are actually addicted to drugs, but we are breeding animals that can only run well with Lasix, etc because they are bleeders. If we didn't allow any race-day medication at all, animals that couldn't perform without drugs wouldn't produce offspring and the breed would be much hardier. This would also make it impossible to use a legal drug to mask an illegal one because they'd all be illegal.


GT,

Sometime last year I watched a documentary on Animal Planet about a herd of wild mustangs in Wyoming that were rounded up by the U.S. Government (B.L.M. I think) because of overpopulation on their ever shrinking home range. Two things really struck me when watching this show. The first was video of the way these mustangs interacted with each other and their simple grace and beauty and their seemingly boundless energy. It was really moving just to watch them do what they do.

The other thing that stuck in my mind was the interview of the vet who examined each animal rounded up. The vet stated on camera that every single animal appeared well fed, healthy, and exceptionally sound. He then went on to explain that these horses were basically capable of running and playing all day long without benefit of horshoes. He explained how their stamina, soundness, durability, and boundless energy had to do with natural selection- something their domestic counterparts no longer had the benefit of. He went on to explain that, for whatever reasons, aesthetics, pretsige, money, we humans had managed to create thoroghbreds- a breed of animals now far removed from what nature had intended. He went on to show how the bone structure, specifically that of the front legs, and the durability of the hooves, differed between the modern thoroghbred and the wild mustang.

His interview left me wondering if the modern thoroghbred had evolved to the point where, as a breed, they had now become so delicate that if one were simply turned loose among a herd of wild mustangs, would it most likely turn up lame with leg and hoof problems within a matter of days from the rigors of constant running and playing that it wasn't used to?

What are we breeding nowadays? Certainly not durability. Smarty Jones and Lion Heart, the one-two finishers from this year's Kentucky Derby are now both retired because of physical problems. Hell, neither one was durable enough to even finish out his three year old campaign. Why is that?

Could it be that what's really happening is that at first some (and now enough) trainers are working with vets to mask a horse's pain? And if that pain can be masked long enough so that the horse wins a black type race or two, then really big money awaits the horse's owners in the form of stud fees- even if the only reason it won the black type races was that it was in less pain than its competition?

Could it be that each successive crop of three year olds is ever so slightly less durable than the last because we are consistently sending the wrong horses out to stud? Could it be that by this process of reverse natural selection we will someday breed a crop of three year olds so delicate that the simple act of starting and finishing all three Triple Crown races will see the owner presented with a $5 million bonus from Visa because the very idea of winning all three races has now become so ludicrous that it is considered impossible?

[GameTheory]

Jeff --

All that could be and in my opinion IS.

A little known fact -- percentage-wise cheap claimers break down much less than than high-priced stakes horses...

[Dancer's Image]

Jeff P/Game Theory;
We are breeding thoroughbreds for speed so it should be no surprize that other qualities become less pronounced. In natural selection, speed is less important than size, strength, toughness, and yes, durability when it comes to a stallion exerting his dominance. No question about it, Jeff, one of our modern day thoroughbreds, let loose in the field with these wild mustangs, would not be the dominant stallion! But the contrary is true also, ie. one of these wild mustangs put on the racetrack with our thoroughbred would not have a chance in hell of beating him in a race!

GT;
It sounds like you want to eliminate all drugs; I think they actually do this in some countries? But why stop there? Let's also eliminate other forms of technology, let's say, horseshoes, for instance. My thinking is that if the technology exists, why not use it?

[Tuffmug]

Great article. Now I know Mullins secret- It's mouthwash! Never knew fresh breath made a horse run faster <G>. Must be a confidence booster. Wonder if the other "supertrainers" use it too.

[Tom]

Jeff P,
Wow, that was one interesting post. And it might just be good argument against cloning. Not to get off topic, but maybe nature knows better than man how to use genetic engineering. Are futur generations doomed to 1 and 2 furlong races, and the classic distance of 3 furlongs, for derbies? Yikes!

[kenwoodallpromos]

What kind of surface were the mustangs running on? Were they free ranging?
It would be interesting to see the documentry to observe herding habits- lots of times when I watch race replays it seems some of the thoroughbreds are not really "racing", but just running like they would do in a herd.
Mixed breed racers seem to just run together for a while, like herding. Some non-thoroughbreds win.l
If feeding thoroughbreds beer is legal, they should not need mouthwash...

[Tom]

"...it seems some of the thoroughbreds are not really "racing", but just running like they would do in a herd. "

Is that the horse's instinct of the rider's?
:D

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Tom
Is that the horse's instinct of the rider's?
:D

That is funny...............

More Racing Scandal.........

Pigeons In The News
Police swoop on pigeon-fanciers in doping scandal
Source: Ananova, 2001-04-20
Source URL: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_266273.html

Police in Belgium have raided several pigeon fanciers' homes after traces of drugs were found in birds.

The raids on breeders' and feed suppliers' homes followed tests revealing traces of banned chemicals in racing pigeons.

A public prosecutor said police found a large number of pharmaceutical products which could have been used for doping pigeons. No arrests have yet been made.

The birds are understood to have tested positive for cortisone, which raises their endurance threshold and slows the moulting process, preserving their wing feathers.

According to The Times, the raids were welcomed by Jean-Louis Jorissen, director of Belgium's World Pigeon Centre which breeds and trains birds for pigeon fanciers in more than 30 different countries.

The results were "a little bit painful" he said, but "nothing to be ashamed of" because they show action is being taken to clean up the sport.

Belgium claims it held the world's first pigeon race in 1828 when a pastor put several birds in a basket, cycled to a nearby town and released them to see which would return home first.

Bob Moffatt, president of the 48,000-member Royal Pigeon Racing Association, acknowledged concern about drugs but insisted: "We have never had a proven case of the use of drugs in this country."

The offenders are all currently negotiating a deal with CHRB for minor fines................pigeon feed........surely........

[Zaf]

Great Post Ralph :D Great Avatar Again !!!

ZAFONIC

[CryingForTheHorses]

Too Much!!
Do they bet on the birds lol? Im sure they do! That is very funny..But to the serious part about the drugs.Its very nice to win when you know in your heart nothing you did to get them ready was to cheat! A winner wins fair and square! Ralph you do have great avatars..Where do you get them. Very cool

[delayjf]

Dancers Image,

What I know about clenbuterol come more from the body building world that horse racing. Bodybuilders take it to cut their weight without losing muscle in the process, That is the muscle sparring properties of Clenbuterol (in humans). It doesn't build muscle but saves muscle per say. I think the performance enhancing affect comes from its ability to a clear the lungs and its ability to stimulate the nervous system. Just like ephedra, its also has a muscle glucose sparring affect, which would allow a horse to work or run hard longer, by releasing fatty acid into the blood stream to be used as fuel before having to tap into the muscles glucose stores. That's why it's a ban substance in the most sports organizations, including the Olympics. I've taken ephedra many times and I'm a stronger runner with it than without it.

Here's the solution:
Quarentine barn for all starter 48 hours prior to post. I've read they do this for the Breeders Cup, which maybe why Frankel is like 1-38.

[JPinMaryland]

>>> If you put a small amount on your finger you feel like you just ate 10 pepermints.

Well Ive never eaten 10 pepermints so I wouldnt know.

Hmm, I'm worried now that I may have missed something during my freewheeling, frat boy days.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by delayjf
Dancers Image,

What I know about clenbuterol come more from the body building world that horse racing. Bodybuilders take it to cut their weight without losing muscle in the process, That is the muscle sparring properties of Clenbuterol (in humans). It doesn't build muscle but saves muscle per say. I think the performance enhancing affect comes from its ability to a clear the lungs and its ability to stimulate the nervous system. Just like ephedra, its also has a muscle glucose sparring affect, which would allow a horse to work or run hard longer, by releasing fatty acid into the blood stream to be used as fuel before having to tap into the muscles glucose stores. That's why it's a ban substance in the most sports organizations, including the Olympics. I've taken ephedra many times and I'm a stronger runner with it than without it.

Here's the solution:
Quarentine barn for all starter 48 hours prior to post. I've read they do this for the Breeders Cup, which maybe why Frankel is like 1-38.

A horse must be off Ventipulman at least 5 days prior to his race, This is a drug where you have to be very careful.All horses are different and all sizes, Seems funny how they all get the same dosage 10cc for 5 days,The breeders cup house all their runners in a special barn. This is to protect tem form onlookers that are strolling around and are armed gaurded around the clock. The only horses that are quarantined for the breeders cup are the european horse's. They stay there for 2 weeks before being allowed to join the rest of the BC horses in the special barn.I dont know if the quarantine barn is on the grounds of the host track

[CryingForTheHorses]

Originally posted by RXB
Frankel. Baffert. Mitchell. Mullins. Glatt.

Anybody surprised that those names surfaced in this story?

As far as the specific drugs go, well, morphine might not be a performance-enhancing drug, but if it is being used to dull pain then I don't think that the animal should be in the race. If you allow infirm animals to race, you're just begging for dead jockeys and dead horses.

I feel badly for the horsemen who play by the rules, who do what is best for their horses, and are getting beaten by the cheaters.

Great post!!

Sooner or later they ALL get caught
RXB I could say a lot on your post, But Ill keep quiet..

[depalma13]

Originally posted by McSchell_Racing
They stay there for 2 weeks before being allowed to join the rest of the BC horses in the special barn.I dont know if the quarantine barn is on the grounds of the host track

It only takes 48 hours to clear quarantine not 2 weeks, otherwise, we wouldn't see any Euro's in the Breeder's Cup races. Most facilities have a quarantine barn.

[JustRalph]

Mullins is the one I think is downright dirty.........some of those horses turned around way to quickly in my opine. I don't know crap about training...........so I may be talking out of my ass on this one.........but I want to know why some of those horses regressed so much after a race or two with Mullins..........?

I only notice a couple at Del Mar.......but what was the difference at Del Mar?

[Jeff P]

What kind of surface were the mustangs running on? Were they free ranging?

Yes. They were out on the open range. The documentary followed them throughout the year. Their territory varied from high desert to alpine. In the summer they migrated up into the mountains and moved down to lower elevation when the snows came.