pricci on desormaeux

[sour grapes]

in horserace insider,he is critical for california punting on the decision not to suspend him and says at least florida was swift to hand down a 60 day suspension to maragh,saying both cases cheated the bettor out of their money.

[GMB@BP]

in horserace insider,he is critical for california punting on the decision not to suspend him and says at least florida was swift to hand down a 60 day suspension to maragh,saying both cases cheated the bettor out of their money.

I dont think these two are remotely related, one was an intention put over in a race, another was a rider gettting a little lazy at the end of the race. Both punished the bettor but the intentions are not close to the same, at least to me.

[jay68802]

The cases were different in that, in one, the connections were betting and trying "influence" the outcome. In the other case, the jockey seemed to be the culprit. Both cases had the same ending, where the betting public was defrauded. Both cases should have involved a suspension. Saying one is a worse offence than the other is sending the wrong message to the public.

[GMB@BP]

The cases were different in that, in one, the connections were betting and trying "influence" the outcome. In the other case, the jockey seemed to be the culprit. Both cases had the same ending, where the betting public was defrauded. Both cases should have involved a suspension. Saying one is a worse offence than the other is sending the wrong message to the public.

how many days you looking for with the jockey error?

just to extrapolate it, in the EU the fine riders for changing the running style of horses, do you think maybe we should also delve into those type of suspension, in a way they certainly mislead the betting public on the horse.

[jay68802]

Was thinking at least 3 to 7 days.
As far as changing running styles, not something I can see happening here. With the difference in the style of racing in America compared to across the pond. Here, early speed is crucial, and is really important in maiden races. As the horse moves up the ladder, the running style might appear to change, but a lot of times it is just that the horse is facing faster runners. In Europe, even the young horses are taught to rate, and you see a lot more maiden winners that come from off the pace.

And one more thing, here, the stewards have a hard time figuring out herding and not keeping the horse in a straight line. I do not think they would be any better at judging if a rider changed the horses running style, or if it just broke poorly.

[cj]

how many days you looking for with the jockey error?

just to extrapolate it, in the EU the fine riders for changing the running style of horses, do you think maybe we should also delve into those type of suspension, in a way they certainly mislead the betting public on the horse.

Do you take into account that this is season 20, episdode 10 for Kent?

[AltonKelsey]

Do you take into account that this is season 20, episdode 10 for Kent?


This is true.


Wonder why he has so much trouble remembering to just ride past the wire.

[Tom]

Do you take into account that this is season 20, episdode 10 for Kent?

Gosh, the way he rides, I thought he had been in syndication for a few years now! :D

[GMB@BP]

Do you take into account that this is season 20, episdode 10 for Kent?

I would.

I think maybe 10-15 days. I just cant equate being dumb to a betting/intentionally holding horses kind of thing.

[cj]

I would.

I think maybe 10-15 days. I just cant equate being dumb to a betting/intentionally holding horses kind of thing.

I agree with that. I don't equate them. I'd give Kent a month, the other guys would be much, much longer.

[castaway01]

Gosh, the way he rides, I thought he had been in syndication for a few years now! :D

You'd think he might get cancelled....

[v j stauffer]

I agree with that. I don't equate them. I'd give Kent a month, the other guys would be much, much longer.

A month is a MASSIVE suspension.

[cj]

A month is a MASSIVE suspension.

I agree. How many times should it take to get a massive suspension?

[v j stauffer]

I agree. How many times should it take to get a massive suspension?

Has he been fined or given days for this type situation before?

Usually to get to something like a 30 day suspension it will be an accumulation of past sanctions.

An ascending penalty scale.

[cj]

Has he been fined or given days for this type situation before?

Usually to get to something like a 30 day suspension it will be an accumulation of past sanctions.

An ascending penalty scale.

Yes, to the best of my memory, and not just once or twice either.

[GMB@BP]

Yes, to the best of my memory, and not just once or twice either.

I believe this would be the third serious suspension for this, and there have been other "questionable" non suspensions.

[cj]

I believe this would be the third serious suspension for this, and there have been other "questionable" non suspensions.

I think I recall other times he was just fined too.

[v j stauffer]

I think I recall other times he was just fined too.

I don't think I've ever seen days for the infraction he's accused of.

If there have been fines, which I think you're right about, he's probably looking at days.

I would be very surprised if it was more than 3, 5 at the most.

[GMB@BP]

I don't think I've ever seen days for the infraction he's accused of.

If there have been fines, which I think you're right about, he's probably looking at days.

I would be very surprised if it was more than 3, 5 at the most.

No he has had days for this, once was when he was the absolute top rider on that circuit in 1993, and I think the other was 2006ish?

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-05-23/sports/sp-38892_1_hollywood-park

[Andy Asaro]

30 days

[v j stauffer]

No he has had days for this, once was when he was the absolute top rider on that circuit in 1993, and I think the other was 2006ish?

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-05-23/sports/sp-38892_1_hollywood-park

Wow. Good work. The Stewards can easily find that on the CHRB website. Doesn't bode well for him.

On a personal note. I've known Kent for 25 years. I like and respect him very much and IMO he's one of the top 20 riders ever.

I've never spoken to him about his proclivity to make this mistake.

But I sure wish he'd give it respect.

Very puzzling to me. :confused:

[GMB@BP]

Wow. Good work. The Stewards can easily find that on the CHRB website. Doesn't bode well for him.

On a personal note. I've known Kent for 25 years. I like and respect him very much and IMO he's one of the top 20 riders ever.

I've never spoken to him about his proclivity to make this mistake.

But I sure wish he'd give it respect.

Very puzzling to me. :confused:

as humans, and as professionals in our craft we all have our faults. His is just more public.

I know lots of the riders over the years, Kent though though less than just about everyone so personally I have nothing to offer.

I wish he would not do this, when I got in the game in 1991 in socal he was the absolute best rider by a very large margin.

[Elkchester Road]

Has he been fined or given days for this type situation before?

Usually to get to something like a 30 day suspension it will be an accumulation of past sanctions.

An ascending penalty scale.

This was what I was referring to in the other thread about this. The Stewards have not dealt with this properly before and this is a huge part of why this idiocy has persisted. :)

[Andy Asaro]

Sent to email list.

Again. Stewards get the knee pads out for Desormeaux AGAIN. Only 3 day suspension. Bullshit.

Good thing we have people looking out for the integrity of the game. NOT

Pull your heads out of your *sses. Why should people have confidence when the bet California Racing.

Wise up people cuz this was a travesty :puke:

We never quit,

A

[GMB@BP]

Sent to email list.

Again. Stewards get the knee pads out for Desormeaux AGAIN. Only 3 day suspension. Bullshit.

Good thing we have people looking out for the integrity of the game. NOT

Pull your heads out of your *sses. Why should people have confidence when the bet California Racing.

Wise up people cuz this was a travesty :puke:

We never quit,

A

yea, thats crap....can take them for Los Al likely as well.

[Andy Asaro]

yea, thats crap....can take them for Los Al likely as well.

They're tone deaf. McHargue likely made the call and I don't think to highly of him as he has precided over the former crew that made all the mistakes.

[v j stauffer]

As I predicted 3 no more than 5 days. IMO this was 100% the correct sanction. Anytime days are meted out it's a VERY big deal. Days are the gift that keeps on giving. Not only does the rider lose the $$$ he would have won. But when those horses win he doesn't get them back next time.

30 days would have been a GROSS overreaction.

That's the kind of sanction jocks get for complete failure to make any effort or down right race manipulation.

Having Darrel McHargue make this decision IMO was a VERY smart move by the CHRB and it's Executive Director.

I worked with Darrel in the stand at both Golden Gate and Fresno.

He was a GREAT rider in his own right back in the day. I know for a fact he is very sensitive when anybody screams that a rider held a horse or gave less than a complete effort.

We had a situation at Fresno one year when a jock flat out stiffed a mule. Darrell showed me a due diligence in making that tough decision that made an impression I remember to this day.

He would bristle at the suggestion of a horse being held. Wanted to look for and listen to every possible reason why it wouldn't be true until the facts and film showed no other recourse. That jock ended up being suspended for 10 days.

Kent's transgressions are foolish, careless and a total mystery to me given what a brilliant god given talent he is. I just don't understand why he continues with these brain farts??

Let me say this again. Days are a VERY big deal. This is a VERY harsh sanction for the rule that was broken.

IMO the CHRB, So Cal stewards and Chief Steward Darrel McHargue got this one spot on correct.

[Andy Asaro]

Now you know what I mean right?

[GMB@BP]

As I predicted 3 no more than 5 days. IMO this was 100% the correct sanction. Anytime days are meted out it's a VERY big deal. Days are the gift that keeps on giving. Not only does the rider lose the $$$ he would have won. But when those horses win he doesn't get them back next time.

30 days would have been a GROSS overreaction.

That's the kind of sanction jocks get for complete failure to make any effort or down right race manipulation.

Having Darrel McHargue make this decision IMO was a VERY smart move by the CHRB and it's Executive Director.

I worked with Darrel in the stand at both Golden Gate at Fresno.

He was a GREAT rider in his own right back in the day. I know for a fact he is very sensitive when anybody screams that a rider held a horse of gave less than a complete effort.

We had a situation at Fresno one year when a jock flat out stiffed a mule. Darrell showed me a due diligence in making that tough decision that made an impression I remember to this day.

He would bristle at the suggestion of a horse being held. Wanted to look for and listen to every possible reason why it wouldn't be true until the facts and film showed no other recourse. That jock ended up being suspended for 10 days.

Kent's transgressions are foolish, careless and a total mystery to me given what a brilliant god given talent he is. I just don't understand why he continues with these brain farts??

Let me say this again. Days are a VERY big deal. This is a VERY harsh sanction for the rule that was broken.

IMO the CHRB, So Cal stewards and Chief Steward Darrel McHargue got this one spot on correct.

days at los al for kent are not a big deal, they just are not. unless they stipulated it has to be the first 3 days at SA this just like a small fine.

[turfnsport]

As I predicted 3 no more than 5 days. IMO this was 100% the correct sanction. Anytime days are meted out it's a VERY big deal. Days are the gift that keeps on giving. Not only does the rider lose the $$$ he would have won. But when those horses win he doesn't get them back next time.

IMO the CHRB, So Cal stewards and Chief Steward Darrel McHargue got this one spot on correct.

You know the gift that also keeps on giving? Horseplayers constantly not protected by the industry.

[Andy Asaro]

You know the gift that also keeps on giving? Horseplayers constantly not protected by the industry.

When you don't have any financial ties to the Industry it helps. All other are suspect as we already know;

[v j stauffer]

days at los al for kent are not a big deal, they just are not. unless they stipulated it has to be the first 3 days at SA this just like a small fine.

I agree. I would have stipulated they be at Santa Anita or perhaps the first 3 days of the Del Mar fall meet.

[v j stauffer]

You know the gift that also keeps on giving? Horseplayers constantly not protected by the industry.

They SUSPENDED him for an infraction that usually is a small fine. What would you have preferred they do to better protect the players?

[v j stauffer]

Now you know what I mean right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5iQj1OByZk

[PaceAdvantage]

They SUSPENDED him for an infraction that usually is a small fine. What would you have preferred they do to better protect the players?If this were his first time pulling this stunt, I'd agree with you.

We're FAR from that scenario however. Don't act like this is happening in a vacuum.

[turfnsport]

They SUSPENDED him for an infraction that usually is a small fine. What would you have preferred they do to better protect the players?

Yup you are right. The Cal stewards and the CHRB can do no wrong. Carry on.

[v j stauffer]

If this were his first time pulling this stunt, I'd agree with you.

We're FAR from that scenario however. Don't act like this is happening in a vacuum.

I completely agree. It's been a problem for a long time. What I'm trying to say is giving days for this is almost unprecedented. It's usually a small fine. Slap on the wrist.

Many people don't feel this is an appropriate penalty. My point is IMO it is a very significant sanction.

[Tom]

The jerk is a repeat offender - make an example of him.
One HE will never forget.
What he does is the same as stealing from the players pockets.
The little creep has no integrity.
Give him 60 days.

[bobphilo]

I recall in an interview Kent once said, "I ride as if the eight pole was the finish line". While he was referring to his aggressive riding style the quote now appears to have a new meaning.

His problems with alcohol are well documented, as is the case with many jockeys. I wonder if alcohols' effect is causing him to have brief phaseouts. Perhaps the authorities should mandate a neurological exam.

[v j stauffer]

Yup you are right. The Cal stewards and the CHRB can do no wrong. Carry on.

What the hell!!! I didn't say anything about what they can or cannot do wrong or right.

I asked a respectful question.

What would you have done differently to protect to best interests of the horse players?

The ULTIMATE I don't have anything to say so I'll take my bat and condescend away response.

Jesus. It never F-ing ends with you guys! OMG:bang:

[v j stauffer]

The jerk is a repeat offender - make an example of him.
One HE will never forget.
What he does is the same as stealing from the players pockets.
The little creep has no integrity.
Give him 60 days.

Jocks at his level make about $15,000 a week in So. Cal. That would be a fine of approx. $120,000 plus more to reestablish lost business.

Do you feel that is appropriate given the nature of the infraction?

[Tom]

Jocks at his level make about $15,000 a week in So. Cal. That would be a fine of approx. $120,000 plus more to reestablish lost business.

Do you feel that is appropriate given the nature of the infraction?

Yes, I do.
What is the amount of money wagered on him that was STOLEN by his inept riding? Add that up for all the races over the years. That is the real nature of his infraction. He failed to do his jobs and costs CUSTOMERS tens of thousand of dollars over and over.
Does anyone inside racing know what CUSTOMER means? :rolleyes:

All the jerk has to do to avoid the severe penalty is to HIS FREAKING JOB. Screw him is he loses a fortune. Self-inflicted.

No one is making ride like a sack of potatoes. If he is not up to the job, perhaps he should find other employment. (PLEEEEEZE)

Racing is a big time game - lots of money involved.
No room for two-bit riders.

What would you thing would be a fair penalty for a stock broker who habitually failed to sell when he was told to?

Same thing. Exactly the same thing.
Incompetence is not acceptable.

[Andy Asaro]

Now you guys know what I've been going through.

Knee Pad paradise.

[PaceAdvantage]

Now you guys know what I've been going through.

Knee Pad paradise.Still doesn't justify how you responded in that other thread.

[turfnsport]

What the hell!!! I didn't say anything about what they can or cannot do wrong or right.

I asked a respectful question.

What would you have done differently to protect to best interests of the horse players?

The ULTIMATE I don't have anything to say so I'll take my bat and condescend away response.

Jesus. It never F-ing ends with you guys! OMG:bang:

Sorry just not really interested in having a discussion with someone that has defended just about every dumb decision ever made by the Cal stewards and the CHRB. Its exhausting...LOL...Kent's long history of screwing horseplayers is well documented. It should have been handled a decade ago. Kent rode for us in his hey day in Maryland and never did that crap.

And it's 1/9 it won't be long before he does it again.

[v j stauffer]

Yes, I do.
What is the amount of money wagered on him that was STOLEN by his inept riding? Add that up for all the races over the years. That is the real nature of his infraction. He failed to do his jobs and costs CUSTOMERS tens of thousand of dollars over and over.
Does anyone inside racing know what CUSTOMER means? :rolleyes:

All the jerk has to do to avoid the severe penalty is to HIS FREAKING JOB. Screw him is he loses a fortune. Self-inflicted.

No one is making ride like a sack of potatoes. If he is not up to the job, perhaps he should find other employment. (PLEEEEEZE)

Racing is a big time game - lots of money involved.
No room for two-bit riders.

What would you thing would be a fair penalty for a stock broker who habitually failed to sell when he was told to?

Same thing. Exactly the same thing.
Incompetence is not acceptable.

Ok. We disagree. Are you going to block me? And call me a career criminal? Say I'm a blight on the racing industry? Block my wife?

Or just say we agree to disagree?

[Andy Asaro]

Ok. We disagree. Are you going to block me? And call me a career criminal? Say I'm a blight on the racing industry? Block my wife?

Or just say we agree to disagree?

This is who he is.

[GMB@BP]

I think most people would want to see a increasing punishment for a long standing violation on the same circuit, it would feel more fair.

[Andy Asaro]

I think most people would want to see a increasing punishment for a long standing violation on the same circuit, it would feel more fair.

Haven't you figured out that they could care less about fairness? Vic is living proof.

[v j stauffer]

Sorry just not really interested in having a discussion with someone that has defended just about every dumb decision ever made by the Cal stewards and the CHRB. Its exhausting...LOL...Kent's long history of screwing horseplayers is well documented. It should have been handled a decade ago. Kent rode for us in his hey day in Maryland and never did that crap.

And it's 1/9 it won't be long before he does it again.

There have been MANY times I've disagreed with decisions made by the stewards and or the CHRB.

Often I've been accused of being a CHRB homer when all I was doing was explaining how the process works and what the rule book says.

For example the non starter issue that's caused all these attacks.

The ONLY thing I've ever said about that incident is I knew what the stewards would HAVE to decide because I know how the rule is written.

For sharing that I'm the anti-christ.

Talk about killing the messenger.

[Andy Asaro]

:popcorn::puke:

[v j stauffer]

This is who he is.

I know you're going to be shocked by this. But just because the great Andy Asaro says it doesn't make it true.

You continue to make personal, unfounded, slanderous, defamatory attacks towards me and all I've ever said in response is I disagree with your opinion as to whether that horse should have been a non starter or not.

I don't need to say anything negative about you.

You're doing it for all of us.

Very Sad.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Andy Asaro]

Stop stalking. Go away

Balan on CHRB dealing with Desormeaux. CHRB a comical shit show. Really

After the case was sent to CHRB investigators, Herbuveaux said the stewards were instructed that "the investigative staff need not be involved in the decision-making process. That was a matter for the stewards to decide." When asked who gave those instructions, Herbuveaux said, "I didn't talk to him, but I believe it was (CHRB chief steward) Darrel McHargue."

When asked why the stewards initially sent the case to CHRB investigators instead of ruling on the case immediately, Baker said, "I don't think there (was) apprehension. We wanted to be thorough."


https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/229376/stewards-suspend-kent-desormeaux-for-riding-effort

[PaceAdvantage]

Stop stalking. Go awayThis might be a shock to you, but this board ISN'T TWITTER.

You can't tell someone to go away. They have just as much right to post in any thread as you do. Even threads you start.

Take this bullshit to twitter if you must, but stop it here. Last warning.

[jay68802]

Recently the CHRB has avoided addressing poor decisions by the Stewards, until some "industry insiders" spoke publicly about it. Acted surprised when they were told that the public found that the late odds movement, due to large rebated wagers, was suspicious. (The CHRB knows who the "whales" are and comp them hotel rooms and meals when it is requested) And appointed a committee to look into it. (We don't care, but a token committee should hold them over) Caved to the owners and trainers stance on out of competition drug testing, giving them the ability to designate who is responsible for the horse. And now decide that no investigation is needed, we will give out a short suspension, and that should be good enough. (Not that this was a surprise) And their lack of action, when a trainer has some horses die from a heart medication, was comical to say the least.

All of these actions by the CHRB show a bias towards the "industry people" and a complete disregard for the betting public.

[GMB@BP]

Haven't you figured out that they could care less about fairness? Vic is living proof.

leave me out of your personal feud, thanks.

[Nitro]

It always amazes me how intolerant some people can be. They’re involved in a game where so many intangibles can affect the outcome of a race including human error.
I’ve followed Kent’s career for quite a while and it certainly took me some time to get over the Big Brown debacle in the Belmont Stakes. Yet, I’ve caught so many solid long shots when he’s been aboard that I can’t fault him for an occasional blunder. I was so glad to hear that he’s been able over come his alcohol problem so far, and I hope he’s able to continue making progress.

[turfnsport]

It always amazes me how intolerant some people can be. They’re involved in a game where so many intangibles can affect the outcome of a race including human error.
I’ve followed Kent’s career for quite a while and it certainly took me some time to get over the Big Brown debacle in the Belmont Stakes. Yet, I’ve caught so many solid long shots when he’s been aboard that I can’t fault him for an occasional blunder. I was so glad to hear that he’s been able over come his alcohol problem so far, and I hope he’s able to continue making progress.

These are not "occasional blunders", they are conscious decisions to wrap up on horses when he feels he can't win. And I think it is completely unrelated to his alcohol problems.

[Elkchester Road]

Recently the CHRB has avoided addressing poor decisions by the Stewards, until some "industry insiders" spoke publicly about it. Acted surprised when they were told that the public found that the late odds movement, due to large rebated wagers, was suspicious. (The CHRB knows who the "whales" are and comp them hotel rooms and meals when it is requested) And appointed a committee to look into it. (We don't care, but a token committee should hold them over) Caved to the owners and trainers stance on out of competition drug testing, giving them the ability to designate who is responsible for the horse. And now decide that no investigation is needed, we will give out a short suspension, and that should be good enough. (Not that this was a surprise) And their lack of action, when a trainer has some horses die from a heart medication, was comical to say the least.

All of these actions by the CHRB show a bias towards the "industry people" and a complete disregard for the betting public.

Jay, your last sentence is like hitting a nail with a sledgehammer!!! Industry Officials/Regulators DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE BETTING PUBLIC!!! Their every action/inaction shows they are beholden to "industry people". I suppose it has always been this way to some extent but now it is almost like it is done brazenly and with a high degree of hubris. Medication issues off-track...drag feet/kick the can down the road. Tilted playing field with rebates/CRW teams? Their shortsightedness sees this as "good business". Now...even on track performance/behavior by the humans involved gets treated with kid gloves. Does anybody ever ask these geniuses what their plan of action will be when "the chicks come home to roost" regarding the environment they create? It seems their every move tells the betting public "this is our world and YOU DON'T MATTER". News flash for these arrogant clowns...we all know they could care less about the droves they have driven away. When these "whales" see their opportunity dry up...they will take their piles of money to the next opportunity. They couldn't give a rat's ass about the well-being of racing...only their R.O.I. Then racing will finally have their Utopia. They won't have to answer to anybody but themselves...which is what they deserve.

[Elkchester Road]

Really, everybody...we all knew some semblance of what happened was what was going to happen, didn't we?

Stewards soft-played punishments for this in the past. This time...passed to the CHRB. CHRB soft-plays the situation. Nobody is surprised. Kind of like Hot Potato, isn't it???

And... the reasoning that this is what the rules mandate doesn't fly. CHANGE THE RULES!!!

What I don't get is the disconnect these numbskulls have with realizing this is bad for business. Even if this particular incident didn't affect a bettor, the fact that officials didn't lower the boom on this behavior means similar incidents can and will occur which could affect this bettor. Possibly for a LOT of money. This incident doesn't exist in a vacuum. Not to mention...isn't the prestige of the profession and the money to be earned worthy of maximum effort? Guess not. This entire episode reeks of arrogance and hubris. Think not? Go to a betting window and call out a large bet (but decidedly less than the money Desormeaux cost that horse's connections) as the last horse is loaded. Gate springs open. Inform the Teller (with about as much concern as Desormeaux had/has) your wallet is still at home. Bet the way you are dealt with is drastically different than how Kent was dealt with. Arrogance...accompanied by a middle finger.

[v j stauffer]

Jay, your last sentence is like hitting a nail with a sledgehammer!!! Industry Officials/Regulators DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE BETTING PUBLIC!!! Their every action/inaction shows they are beholden to "industry people". I suppose it has always been this way to some extent but now it is almost like it is done brazenly and with a high degree of hubris. Medication issues off-track...drag feet/kick the can down the road. Tilted playing field with rebates/CRW teams? Their shortsightedness sees this as "good business". Now...even on track performance/behavior by the humans involved gets treated with kid gloves. Does anybody ever ask these geniuses what their plan of action will be when "the chicks come home to roost" regarding the environment they create? It seems their every move tells the betting public "this is our world and YOU DON'T MATTER". News flash for these arrogant clowns...we all know they could care less about the droves they have driven away. When these "whales" see their opportunity dry up...they will take their piles of money to the next opportunity. They couldn't give a rat's ass about the well-being of racing...only their R.O.I. Then racing will finally have their Utopia. They won't have to answer to anybody but themselves...which is what they deserve.

I have worked in the industry for 35 years.

I've been a horse player for 40 years.

Just because people disagree with some of my takes doesn't prove I don't care.

That's total nonsense.

There are many good management people who care deeply about the best interests of horse players.

They are many regulators who have dedicated their career to insuring a level playing field.

Do we have lot's of problems? Yes of course.

Is there NOTHING being done? Of course not.

[ReplayRandall]

There are many good management people who care deeply about the best interests of horse players.




Name two....

[Nitro]

These are not "occasional blunders", they are conscious decisions to wrap up on horses when he feels he can't win. And I think it is completely unrelated to his alcohol problems.
Maybe one these days the so-called handicapping geniuses will come to the realization that EVERY horse entered in a race may not in fact be there in an attempt to win it.

Besides, there could be any number of reasons why a jockey decides to give it up prematurely. They’re riding the horse and can generally sense what they’ve got under them. A riding mistake or not, how it appears to those viewing the ride may not provide a complete explanation.

I never said that the incident was related to any personal issues. I was just glad to hear that he’s so far been able to overcome a disease that permeates our society on so many levels.

[Elkchester Road]

I have worked in the industry for 35 years.

I've been a horse player for 40 years.

Just because people disagree with some of my takes doesn't prove I don't care.

That's total nonsense.

There are many good management people who care deeply about the best interests of horse players.

They are many regulators who have dedicated their career to insuring a level playing field.

Do we have lot's of problems? Yes of course.

Is there NOTHING being done? Of course not.

When it comes to this issue, Vic, nothing is being done. The fact that it keeps happening is proof. If they wanted to fix it...they could. They have free reign to...nobody would argue against it (at least publicly). Is this not big enough of an issue to merit their precious time? Arrogance.

I respect everything you have done within the business and meant nothing personal towards you when I spoke of "officials". :)

[jay68802]

Even if this particular incident didn't affect a bettor, the fact that officials didn't lower the boom on this behavior means similar incidents can and will occur which could affect this bettor.

Did not affect the bettor? Affected the bettors in the place, exacta, quinella, tri, and super pools. Similar incidents have happened with the same jockey in the past. Not disagreeing with what you are saying in general, but incidents like this always affect the bettor.

[v j stauffer]

Name two....

Wayne Smith & Martin Panza

[Elkchester Road]

Did not affect the bettor? Affected the bettors in the place, exacta, quinella, tri, and super pools. Similar incidents have happened with the same jockey in the past. Not disagreeing with what you are saying in general, but incidents like this always affect the bettor.

Absolutely, Jay. What I was saying was if a bettor saw this happen in a race but it didn't affect his bet in the race, there can still be a lingering thought that it COULD happen to him, and possibly involve a lot of dough. I agree with you totally that these incidents always affect the bettor...even if not directly in a given instance.

[v j stauffer]

When it comes to this issue, Vic, nothing is being done. The fact that it keeps happening is proof. If they wanted to fix it...they could. They have free reign to...nobody would argue against it (at least publicly). Is this not big enough of an issue to merit their precious time? Arrogance.

I respect everything you have done within the business and meant nothing personal towards you when I spoke of "officials". :)

My license says racing official.

But no offense taken.

Where the divide exists here is people who are say the suspension that was handed out was meaningless.

When the fact of the matter is I have NEVER seen a harsher penalty for the rule infraction he was sanctioned for.

IMO the severity of the penalty is proof the regulators ARE in fact looking out for the best interests of the horse players.

[ReplayRandall]

Wayne Smith & Martin Panza


Martin is a personal friend you worked with at Hollywood Park, now at NYRA...

Wayne is the GM of Oaklawn...Good suck up shout-out to your boss...

[turfnsport]

Maybe one these days the so-called handicapping geniuses will come to the realization that EVERY horse entered in a race may not in fact be there in an attempt to win it.

Besides, there could be any number of reasons why a jockey decides to give it up prematurely. They’re riding the horse and can generally sense what they’ve got under them. A riding mistake or not, how it appears to those viewing the ride may not provide a complete explanation.

I never said that the incident was related to any personal issues. I was just glad to hear that he’s so far been able to overcome a disease that permeates our society on so many levels.

All horseplayers ask for is an honest effort by jockeys. This has been an ongoing issue for Kent for quite some time. He is the leading jockey in these types of rides by light years. There is nobody that is a close second.

[Elkchester Road]

My license says racing official.

But no offense taken.

Where the divide exists here is people who are say the suspension that was handed out was meaningless.

When the fact of the matter is I have NEVER seen a harsher penalty for the rule infraction he was sanctioned for.

IMO the severity of the penalty is proof the regulators ARE in fact looking out for the best interests of the horse players.

I just don't see how if the same thing happens over and over again.

The fact that you have never seen a harsher penalty, once again, means that rules/protocols for dealing with this have never been strong enough since it keeps happening.

I understand that tougher sanctions won't guarantee this ever happening again but perception, many times, is reality, and I don't believe racing is in the position to be so nonchalant about things with the current state of affairs in the gaming/gambling world.

I also realize that as more and more tracks are becoming more and more dependent on alternative revenue (slots/gaming/sports betting) this problem doesn't get better. It gets worse because less and less revenue for purses is tied to bettors...many who have fled this scene for a different pursuit. Perception...

[v j stauffer]

Martin is a personal friend you worked with at Hollywood Park, now at NYRA...

Wayne is the GM of Oaklawn...Good suck up shout-out to your boss...

Oh you want people that I don't like and respect?

Ok. Let me work on that.

[jay68802]

My license says racing official.

But no offense taken.

Where the divide exists here is people who are say the suspension that was handed out was meaningless.

When the fact of the matter is I have NEVER seen a harsher penalty for the rule infraction he was sanctioned for.

IMO the severity of the penalty is proof the regulators ARE in fact looking out for the best interests of the horse players.

I do not feel the penalty was meaningless. And when I think about it, I do not remember a harsher penalty for this offense. (But age and probably a slight bias on my part, may have something to do with that) I feel that the penalty is not near harsh enough considering the amount of money that the action affected. Sort of reminds me of when the NFL was handing out $500.00 fines to players making millions.

Would you support increasing the fines and suspensions by 5x their current level, considering the fact that these issues affect hundreds of thousands of wagering dollars?

[v j stauffer]

Martin is a personal friend you worked with at Hollywood Park, now at NYRA...

Wayne is the GM of Oaklawn...Good suck up shout-out to your boss...

Dr. Edward Allred

Dr. Rick Arthur

I don't know Dr. Allred.

Dr. Arthur I've know and admired for many years.

[ReplayRandall]

Oh you want people that I don't like and respect?

Ok. Let me work on that.


Bad pivot, I've been in the game longer than you and know more than you think.....Took me two minutes to show you "I know" your two guys.

I proved my point....No more to see here....Next.

[v j stauffer]

I do not feel the penalty was meaningless. And when I think about it, I do not remember a harsher penalty for this offense. (But age and probably a slight bias on my part, may have something to do with that) I feel that the penalty is not near harsh enough considering the amount of money that the action affected. Sort of reminds me of when the NFL was handing out $500.00 fines to players making millions.

Would you support increasing the fines and suspensions by 5x their current level, considering the fact that these issues affect hundreds of thousands of wagering dollars?

I wouldn't support increases that severe.

Remember these people have lives and families too.

Mistake are made in professional sports all the time.

If a football player is suspended for PED's should the billions bet on the games be given back?

[thaskalos]

Inasmuch as the track accepts vertical wagers, strict rules backed up by harsh penalties should exist to ensure that the jockeys put forth a maximum effort until the finish of the race. There is no valid excuse for wrapping up prematurely on a horse...and a repeat offender of this sort must be viewed in the same light as the criminals who litter this game, whose grievous actions deprive the "sport" of the little integrity that it has left.

Thirty days may SEEM like a harsh penalty because of the way the current game-policing rules are written...but it hardly fits the transgressions of a repeat offender, IMO. Thirty days should be handed out to a first-time offender in such cases...and if the act is repeated by the same rider, then he should be deprived of the right to earn his living via the support of the wagering public. This is real money we are betting out there...it isn't Monopoly-money.

[thaskalos]

I wouldn't support increases that severe.

Remember these people have lives and families too.

Mistake are made in professional sports all the time.

If a football player is suspended for PED's should the billions bet on the games be given back?

What "mistake" is this that prohibits the jockey from persevering with the horse until the race is over?

[v j stauffer]

Inasmuch as the track accepts vertical wagers, strict rules backed up by harsh penalties should exist to ensure that the jockeys put forth a maximum effort until the finish of the race. There is no valid excuse for wrapping up prematurely on a horse...and a repeat offender of this sort must be viewed in the same light as the criminals who litter this game, whose grievous actions deprive the "sport" of the little integrity that it has left.

Thirty days may SEEM like a harsh penalty because of the way the current game-policing rules are written...but it hardly fits the transgressions of a repeat offender, IMO. Thirty days should be handed out to a first-time offender in such cases...and if the act is repeated by the same rider, then he should be deprived of the right to earn his living via the support of the wagering public. This is real money we are betting out there...it isn't Monopoly-money.

I'm betting my fair share as well. This weekend I really wish it was Monopoly-money.

We agree there should be sanctions. We disagree about the severity.

And so it goes.

[v j stauffer]

Bad pivot, I've been in the game longer than you and know more than you think.....Took me two minutes to show you "I know" your two guys.

I proved my point....No more to see here....Next.

How do you know how much I think you know?

[ultracapper]

Did not affect the bettor? Affected the bettors in the place, exacta, quinella, tri, and super pools. Similar incidents have happened with the same jockey in the past. Not disagreeing with what you are saying in general, but incidents like this always affect the bettor.

On top of that, the game is losing owners annually. Kent was being paid by the owner to place as high as possible, and he continually cheats owners out of placings on a daily basis. There are times on a daily basis that he stops riding at the top of the stretch because he knows he's not going to come close, but he could have easily gotten 4th instead of 7th, and I don't mean by beating the horse to death. I mean by just staying into the ride. It's crazy the way he coasts down the stretch time and time again.

[cj]

My license says racing official.

But no offense taken.

Where the divide exists here is people who are say the suspension that was handed out was meaningless.

When the fact of the matter is I have NEVER seen a harsher penalty for the rule infraction he was sanctioned for.

IMO the severity of the penalty is proof the regulators ARE in fact looking out for the best interests of the horse players.

Of course it is a fake penalty. Kent doesn't ride at Los Al. It is like suspending me from riding for three days. It wasn't a coincidence they waited so long to make sure the Del Mar meet was over before eventually getting around to ruling.