FISA court held no hearings on Carter Page warrant

[PaceAdvantage]

They just rubber stamped it...fun times:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-justice-department-discloses-no-fisa-court-hearings-held-on-carter-page-warrants/

[chadk66]

someones nuts are gonna be put in a vice I think. Can congress impeach this group?

[fast4522]

Who to start with?

[VigorsTheGrey]

Democrats: corruption, as usual...
Republicans: corruption, as usual...
Presidents: corruption, as usual...
People taking sides...
Fanboys and Fangirlies run amuck...
Devotees, loyalists all...
The turncoats dispised, as usual...
Hatreds stirred in vast pots...
Anarchy in the making...

All for what...?

[fast4522]

So we just let criminals be.

[davew]

What is the purpose of having a hearing when the judge is just going to sign it anyway? If you can't trust the leaders of the FBI and DOJ, who can you trust?

[fast4522]

What is the purpose of having a hearing when the judge is just going to sign it anyway? If you can't trust the leaders of the FBI and DOJ, who can you trust?

I can tell you who not to trust.

[VigorsTheGrey]

What is the purpose of having a hearing when the judge is just going to sign it anyway? If you can't trust the leaders of the FBI and DOJ, who can you trust?

I wonder who the judge was, history, an if FISA court has appointed judiciary...if so, then who appointed this judge..?

[JustRalph]

Phoned it in......

[chadk66]

I wonder who the judge was, history, an if FISA court has appointed judiciary...if so, then who appointed this judge..?it's a panel of judges. four I believe.

[davew]

I wonder who the judge was, history, an if FISA court has appointed judiciary...if so, then who appointed this judge..?

Just more names to be added to the 'YOU'RE FIRED' list.

[ReplayRandall]

it's a panel of judges. four I believe.
FYI, the identities of FISA judges are kept secret, but the person who appoints the Judges that sit on the FISA Courts is ----->Chief Justice John Roberts

[VigorsTheGrey]

For those of you who have not seen the FISA document...here it is in all its redacted glory...composed of several parts, each containing multiple pages.

The page numbers are at the bottom of each page. The legal persons ssociated with these filings sign in at the end of each section.

Some of the names that are shown include:

James Comey
Sally Q.Yates
Rod J. Rosenstein
Dana J. Boente

Andrew G. McGabe

Michael W. Mosman
Anne C. Conway
Raymond J. Deanie
Please forgive me if I get the names wrong...

This document may very well go down as one of he most important documents in US History...my suggestion is for all of us to become very acquainted with it...there is a very important political education here... That no doubt will become the focus of lively discussion for years...

...too bad the TopSecret document was only released in heavily redacted format...I would have loved to read the full account...maybe someday it will be made into a movie....
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/FISA-Spy-Carter-Page.pdf medium size download.

[Burls]

Democrats: corruption, as usual...
Republicans: corruption, as usual...
Presidents: corruption, as usual...
People taking sides...
Fanboys and Fangirlies run amuck...
Devotees, loyalists all...
The turncoats dispised, as usual...
Hatreds stirred in vast pots...
Anarchy in the making...

I think that pretty much tells it the way it is.

[fast4522]

You will see a movie about it, likely not what you want.

[Tom]

Judge Judy has more integrity than the entire US Judicial System.

TRUMP - appoint JJ!:headbanger:

[VigorsTheGrey]

You will see a movie about it, likely not what you want.

Really not sure how this all ends, and I don't have a side one way or another...it would be nice if the real story were told to us all but slim chance of that...

Stuff like this often gets obscured for ages, lost in the vaults of secrecy, national security, you know...that's why I don't pick sides anymore.

[fast4522]

Really not sure how this all ends, and I don't have a side one way or another...it would be nice if the real story were told to us all but slim chance of that...

Stuff like this often gets obscured for ages, lost in the vaults of secrecy, national security, you know...that's why I don't pick sides anymore.

I tell you what, you and I can revisit this one year from now.

[davew]

For those of you who have not seen the FISA document...here it is in all its redacted glory...composed of several parts, each containing multiple pages.

The page numbers are at the bottom of each page. The legal persons ssociated with these filings sign in at the end of each section.

Some of the names that are shown include:

James Comey
Sally Q.Yates
Rod J. Rosenstein
Dana J. Boente

Andrew G. McGabe

Michael W. Mosman
Anne C. Conway
Raymond J. Deanie
Please forgive me if I get the names wrong...

This document may very well go down as one of he most important documents in US History...my suggestion is for all of us to become very acquainted with it...there is a very important political education here... That no doubt will become the focus of lively discussion for years...

...too bad the TopSecret document was only released in heavily redacted format...I would have loved to read the full account...maybe someday it will be made into a movie....
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/FISA-Spy-Carter-Page.pdf medium size download.

it is interesting that Trump has not declassified any documents yet, maybe Adam Shiffty is right :D:D

[VigorsTheGrey]

FYI, the identities of FISA judges are kept secret, but the person who appoints the Judges that sit on the FISA Courts is ----->Chief Justice John Roberts

Mosman/ G.W Bush
Conway/ Roberts
Dearie/ Roberts

[VigorsTheGrey]

Dana J. Boente resigned abruptly in Oct 2017
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/08/senator-seeks-explanation-for-career-us-prosecutors-abrupt-resignation.html

Also,

Wikipedia:
On October 27, 2017 Boente announced his intention to resign as U.S. Attorney and as acting assistant attorney general for the National Security Division; he said he would remain in the positions until a replacement is confirmed.[18][19]

On January 23, 2018, Boente was named general counsel to the FBI by the director Christopher Wray, filling the vacancy after James Baker's reassignment to another part of the bureau.[20]

On April 11, 2018, Rachel Maddow showed on The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC notes from Boente where Boente documented his conversation with James Comey about Comey's experiences with Donald Trump. Maddow also showed a letter from Boente to the Department of Justice wherein Boente relays a request to other officials to preserve "Documents and Responsive Materials" about Trump's dismissal of James Comey as Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.[21]

[VigorsTheGrey]

They just rubber stamped it...fun times:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-justice-department-discloses-no-fisa-court-hearings-held-on-carter-page-warrants/

"Also rare is for FISA warrant requests to be turned down. During the 25 years from 1979 to 2004, 18,742 warrants were granted, while only four were rejected. Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004. The four rejected requests were all from 2003, and all four were partially granted after being submitted for reconsideration by the government. Of the requests that had to be modified, few were before the year 2000. During the next eight years, from 2004 to 2012, there were over 15,100 additional warrants granted, and another seven being rejected. Over the entire 33-year period, the FISA court granted 33,942 warrants, with only 12 denials – a rejection rate of 0.03 percent of the total requests.[5] This does not include the number of warrants that were modified by the FISA court.[6]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Co urt
Since FISA was enacted in 1978, we've had three chief justices, and they have all been conservative Republicans, so I think one can worry that there is insufficient diversity."[32] Since May 2014, however, four of the five judges appointed by Chief Justice Roberts to the FISA Court were appointed to their prior federal court positions by Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

[chadk66]

FYI, the identities of FISA judges are kept secret, but the person who appoints the Judges that sit on the FISA Courts is ----->Chief Justice John Robertsso is Roberts the only one that can remove them or can congress do it?

[mostpost]

They just rubber stamped it...fun times:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-justice-department-discloses-no-fisa-court-hearings-held-on-carter-page-warrants/
Just what sort of hearing should they have held? Do you think Carter Page or his attorneys should have been allowed to argue why he should not have been surveilled? The whole idea behind a wiretap is that the person not know that he is being watched/listened to. Otherwise he will change his behavior. He will be "A good boy".


Justice Department has done thousands of these warrants. I'm sure they know what to put in these warrants; and I am sure if the court has questions they will ask them.


I read the application posted by Vigors the Grey in this thread. in the unredacted part there is no mention of the Steele Dossier, no mention of Hillary Clinton, no mention of Bruce Ohr, no mention of Peter Strozk and no mention of the DNC. So all that is just a diversion by Judicial Watch.

Remember that all the material that was redacted for the public release, was not redacted in the version the court saw. The entirety of the document was all the court needed to approve the request.

[PaceAdvantage]

Just what sort of hearing should they have held? Do you think Carter Page or his attorneys should have been allowed to argue why he should not have been surveilled?Oh yes. That's exactly what I was talking about and expected. That's because I'm a ****ing moron who didn't go beyond a 3rd grade education. Thanks for setting me straight.

[davew]

Just what sort of hearing should they have held? Do you think Carter Page or his attorneys should have been allowed to argue why he should not have been surveilled? The whole idea behind a wiretap is that the person not know that he is being watched/listened to. Otherwise he will change his behavior. He will be "A good boy".


Justice Department has done thousands of these warrants. I'm sure they know what to put in these warrants; and I am sure if the court has questions they will ask them.


I read the application posted by Vigors the Grey in this thread. in the unredacted part there is no mention of the Steele Dossier, no mention of Hillary Clinton, no mention of Bruce Ohr, no mention of Peter Strozk and no mention of the DNC. So all that is just a diversion by Judicial Watch.

Remember that all the material that was redacted for the public release, was not redacted in the version the court saw. The entirety of the document was all the court needed to approve the request.

the hearings are for the judges to ask questions to clarify vague points

the 0bama administration weaponized the government and only the dimwits do not recognize this or feel it is alright because the end justifies any means possible.

wiretaps are a joke anyway, because the NSA is keeping ALL calls for later reference ... (after terrorists attacks and such)

[mostpost]

"Also rare is for FISA warrant requests to be turned down. During the 25 years from 1979 to 2004, 18,742 warrants were granted, while only four were rejected. Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004. The four rejected requests were all from 2003, and all four were partially granted after being submitted for reconsideration by the government. Of the requests that had to be modified, few were before the year 2000. During the next eight years, from 2004 to 2012, there were over 15,100 additional warrants granted, and another seven being rejected. Over the entire 33-year period, the FISA court granted 33,942 warrants, with only 12 denials – a rejection rate of 0.03 percent of the total requests.[5] This does not include the number of warrants that were modified by the FISA court.[6]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Co urt
Since FISA was enacted in 1978, we've had three chief justices, and they have all been conservative Republicans, so I think one can worry that there is insufficient diversity."[32] Since May 2014, however, four of the five judges appointed by Chief Justice Roberts to the FISA Court were appointed to their prior federal court positions by Presidents Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

That is the same link that I clicked on with very different results. Why did you only include results up to 2004 when they go all the way to 2018. In the past two years with a similar number of applications, 68 requests have been rejected and 1220 modified before being approved.


According to the same Wikipedia article, this is how the court guards against rubber stamping.
The accusation of being a "rubber stamp" was rejected by FISA Court president Reggie B. Walton who wrote in a letter to Senator Patrick J. Leahy: "The annual statistics provided to Congress by the Attorney General ... – frequently cited to in press reports as a suggestion that the Court's approval rate of application is over 99% – reflect only the number of final applications submitted to and acted on by the Court. These statistics do not reflect the fact that many applications are altered to prior or final submission or even withheld from final submission entirely, often after an indication that a judge would not approve them."[17] He added: "There is a rigorous review process of applications submitted by the executive branch, spearheaded initially by five judicial branch lawyers who are national security experts and then by the judges, to ensure that the court's authorizations comport with what the applicable statutes authorize."[18] In a following letter Walton stated that the government had revamped 24.4% of its requests in the face of court questions and demands in time from July 1, 2013 to September 30, 2013.[19][20][21] This figure became available after Walton decided in the summer of 2013 that the FISC would begin keeping its own tally of how Justice Department warrant applications for electronic surveillance fared – and would track for the first time when the government withdrew or resubmitted those applications with changes.[21] Some requests are modified by the court but ultimately granted, while the percentage of denied requests is statistically negligible (11 denied requests out of around 34,000 granted in 35 years – equivalent to 0.03%).[7][16][22][23] The accusation that the FISC is a "rubber stamp" court was also rejected by Robert S. Litt (General Counsel of Office of the Director of National Intelligence): "When [the Government] prepares an application for [a section 215 order, it] first submit[s] to the [FISC] what's called a "read copy", which the court staff will review and comment on. [A]nd they will almost invariably come back with questions, concerns, problems that they see. And there is an iterative process back and forth between the Government and the [FISC] to take care of those concerns so that at the end of the day, we're confident that we're presenting something that the [FISC] will approve. That is hardly a rubber stamp. It's rather extensive and serious judicial oversight of this process."[24]


You can see by reading the second bolded portion above that the reason there are so few rejections is that requests are carefully reviewed and modified even before they reach the court itself.

[Tom]

In the past two years with a similar number of applications, 68 requests have been rejected and 1220 modified before being approved.

All the more reason to hold a hearing and NOT rubber stamp anything.

Why do you whine and cry when all anyone is asking is due diligence and the following of the law? Whatcha hiding, dude?

[mostpost]

the hearings are for the judges to ask questions to clarify vague points
See my reply #27 in this thread. The reason there is seldom a need for judges to clarify vague points is that there is a process in place to make sure there are no vague points before the request goes to the court.

the 0bama administration weaponized the government and only the dimwits do not recognize this or feel it is alright because the end justifies any means possible.

It's Obama. It's always Obama.:rolleyes:

wiretaps are a joke anyway, because the NSA is keeping ALL calls for later reference ... (after terrorists attacks and such)

Do you think that every call made in the United States is being recorded by the NSA? It may be that phone companies are maintaining a record of who called who and when. And it may be that the NSA could have access to those records at some time, but that does not mean there is any record of the content of those calls.

[mostpost]

All the more reason to hold a hearing and NOT rubber stamp anything.

Why do you whine and cry when all anyone is asking is due diligence and the following of the law? Whatcha hiding, dude?

Judicial Watch is nothing more than an arm of the Republican Party. Totally in bed with the conservatives. There sole purpose is to sow doubt among the ignorant faithful.

[Tom]

Judicial Watch is nothing more than an arm of the Republican Party. Totally in bed with the conservatives. There sole purpose is to sow doubt among the ignorant faithful.

Nice. You totally ignored every valid point and substituted liberal BS. Couldn't handle the truth again.

You are just like hcap. Only even more arrogant.

Mailman, deliver thyself (from ignorance.)

[VigorsTheGrey]

Really not sure how this all ends, and I don't have a side one way or another...it would be nice if the real story were told to us all but slim chance of that...

Stuff like this often gets obscured for ages, lost in the vaults of secrecy, national security, you know...that's why I don't pick sides anymore.
Civilians, even criminal organizations, have been secret partners with US intelligence agencies at least since WW2, maybe earlier...now we have news reports of a secret government program to "flip Russian Oligarchs" ...

..for all we know, Trump himself could be a secret Government intelligence asset....look at how Obama came out of nowhere with little history to become President...Obama was almost certainly a State Asset prior to his election...

...maybe the reason Trump is so bold about things is that he knows he'll receive immunity for his "crimes"... if he is implicated or ordered illegal activities... That's what I mean about this political stuff...we can never really know who is " working " for whom...and the real reason behind, what on the surface, seem like improprieties, or breaches of law...as usual, the ends justify the means...

[hcap]

...maybe the reason Trump is so bold about things is that he knows he'll receive immunity for his "crimes"... if he is implicated or ordered illegal activities... That's what I mean about this political stuff...we can never really know who is " working " for whom...and the real reason behind, what on the surface, seem like improprieties, or breaches of law...as usual, the ends justify the means... Maybe Putin is offering him asylum?

Your "maybe's" are too specious lacking evidence and rationality, to be any more correct than mine

[fast4522]

t....look at how Obama came out of nowhere with little history to become President...Obama was almost certainly a State Asset prior to his election...

Just can not agree with that statement, you just don't follow politics that closely or your looking for those much less intelligent than yourself to sell that crap to.

Barack Hussein Obama was supported by a huge list of degenerates, a list I will spare others of hearing their putrid names and why they are disgusting. So to sum things up Barack Hussein Obama had the full support of Senator Ted Kennedy and his full range of connections. Kennedy knew it did not matter who, they could beat anyone after George W. Bush gets the blame of a crashed economy.

[mostpost]

Nice. You totally ignored every valid point and substituted liberal BS. Couldn't handle the truth again.

You are just like hcap. Only even more arrogant.

Mailman, deliver thyself (from ignorance.)

You ignored the three posts in which I addressed the substance and only replied to the one where I did not. One the other hand it would be impossible to address Judicial Watches valid points because there were none.

[VigorsTheGrey]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/clinic/document/fisc_rule_62_motion_for_page_orders_and_applicatio n_materials.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwig2uW3-ZrdAhVXFzQIHeCJDl4QFjAFegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1NXmJF4QlueHwxJIbek5Qv

Interesting explanations..short download.
Motion for publication of court records (carter page re:)

Also, Nunes Memo..https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/clinic/document/fisc_rule_62_motion_for_page_orders_and_applicatio n_materials.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwig2uW3-ZrdAhVXFzQIHeCJDl4QFjAFegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1NXmJF4QlueHwxJIbek5Qv

[JustRalph]

Judge Judy has more integrity than the entire US Judicial System.

TRUMP - appoint JJ!:headbanger:

The pay cut would be devastating

[VigorsTheGrey]

Regarding Democrats response to Nunes memo..https://www.vox.com/world/2018/2/24/17048936/democrat-rebuttal-nunes-schiff-memo

https://intelligence.house.gov Nunes discusses investigation

[VigorsTheGrey]

Really good article: After 2 years, why hasn't Carter Page been charged with any crime yet..?
https://amgreatness.com/2018/08/04/where-is-carter-pages-exoneration-by-the-fbi/

[CincyHorseplayer]

This is the most sore ass loser phenomenon of all political times isn't it? A guy that thinks you and yours are total inept assholes got elected and he tells you just that...

I think it's great! And I've voted Democrat most my life. Not indecisive here. You guys are fuc*ed up. After the 2016 election my opinion is ever altered. You call every non Democrat voter every dirty political name in the book it inspires voting Republican across the board indefinitely..

[VigorsTheGrey]

Do you think that every call made in the United States is being recorded by the NSA? It may be that phone companies are maintaining a record of who called who and when. And it may be that the NSA could have access to those records at some time, but that does not mean there is any record of the content of those calls.

Don't kid yourself, Mostie, the NSA has the ability to tap into your personal phone line and listen to each and every word you utter...phone companies had this ability already as early as 1970, maybe earlier, for sure...content is hugely important, so what if x phoned y on such and such a date...if you don't know what the content was what good is that...? Content is king, and they know it...

[fast4522]

Don't kid yourself, Mostie, the NSA has the ability to tap into your personal phone line and listen to each and every word you utter...phone companies had this ability already as early as 1970, maybe earlier, for sure...content is hugely important, so what if x phoned y on such and such a date...if you don't know what the content was what good is that...? Content is king, and they know it...

Every phone conversation and digital communication is digitized and stored at the UTAH data center.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Every phone conversation and digital communication is digitized and stored at the UTAH data center.

Yes, I know this...and how Orwellian is the motto adorning the front monument "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear"... Yes, and war is peace; freedom is slavery...the Republic has fallen.

[davew]

Every phone conversation and digital communication is digitized and stored at the UTAH data center.

that can't be true, Clapper told Congress it does not wittingly happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGYn7ER5U_0

[mostpost]

Every phone conversation and digital communication is digitized and stored at the UTAH data center.

That picture you posted is a fake. The Utah data center doesn't look anything like that and there is certainly no sign outside saying "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." But I understand why you might be fooled. It fits so well into your paranoid world view.

[mostpost]

Don't kid yourself, Mostie, the NSA has the ability to tap into your personal phone line and listen to each and every word you utter...phone companies had this ability already as early as 1970, maybe earlier, for sure...content is hugely important, so what if x phoned y on such and such a date...if you don't know what the content was what good is that...? Content is king, and they know it...

I don't doubt they have the ability, but I very much doubt if they have the motivation. No matter how much storage space they have, do you think they can store 6,000,000,000 calls a day. That is 2,900,000,000,000 calls a year. In a few years that adds up to a big number. And for what? So the government can listen to you talk? You are not that important.

[mostpost]

Don't kid yourself, Mostie, the NSA has the ability to tap into your personal phone line and listen to each and every word you utter...phone companies had this ability already as early as 1970, maybe earlier, for sure...content is hugely important, so what if x phoned y on such and such a date...if you don't know what the content was what good is that...? Content is king, and they know it...
To answer your question which I highlighted, that information along with other information can be used to obtain warrants to tap the phones of the people involved. For example, an intelligence agency might get word of a pending terrorist attack and know the identities of a few of the people involved, but not know the nature of the attack nor when and where it will occur. If they can show that some of those people are speaking to each other they can get a FISA warrant. so knowing who is speaking to who and when can be critically important.

[davew]

To answer your question which I highlighted, that information along with other information can be used to obtain warrants to tap the phones of the people involved. For example, an intelligence agency might get word of a pending terrorist attack and know the identities of a few of the people involved, but not know the nature of the attack nor when and where it will occur. If they can show that some of those people are speaking to each other they can get a FISA warrant. so knowing who is speaking to who and when can be critically important.

they need to get a warrant to use the information obtained in a court case - all of the other info they have, was not 'legally' obtained.

[VigorsTheGrey]

To answer your question which I highlighted, that information along with other information can be used to obtain warrants to tap the phones of the people involved. For example, an intelligence agency might get word of a pending terrorist attack and know the identities of a few of the people involved, but not know the nature of the attack nor when and where it will occur. If they can show that some of those people are speaking to each other they can get a FISA warrant. so knowing who is speaking to who and when can be critically important.

Yes, we have learned that they store the x to y records only, that's what they tell us anyway ( or what Ed Snowden revealed for us)... And yes you are right that knowing who and when x contacted y can be important. But the content is what is supremely important, which is what they are after to begin with, no doubt have the ability to acquire, and go to FISC to do LEGALLY to get a conviction in court...
Who knows, maybe the actually content is stored but only on a temporary basis and drops out after a certain time...and yes, myself and most people are nobody important and law abiding, good citizens whose daily phone conversations are mundane and nonthreatening, but that is not the point...

...the point is the illegality and breach of ethics that the NSA does routinely and on a gross scale and that is to listen in on virtually anyone WITHOUT a FISA warrant anytime they feel like it...and the scope and breadth of the operations on a global scale, and the fact many large telecoms and large corporations are secret partners is truly alarming... It points to a permanent deep state that has nothing to do with democratic or republican ideals, but is totalitarian in nature and in fact...knowing the content of what foreigners say is critical also is running secret operations worldwide without the pretense of democratic ideals to hinder them...

[fast4522]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1035550712409874432.html

Do not listen to the above idiot, go to the government website below.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

[fast4522]

That picture you posted is a fake. The Utah data center doesn't look anything like that and there is certainly no sign outside saying "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." But I understand why you might be fooled. It fits so well into your paranoid world view.

Dang, just go to that picture from the government website.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

[PaceAdvantage]

Ummm...that's a parody website if I'm not mistaken...you been duped?

And if that popup that greets you didn't tip you off, nothing will.

[VigorsTheGrey]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1035550712409874432.html

Do not listen to the above idiot, go to the government website below.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

"The NSA is constantly seeking to expand its capabilities without limits. They're currently storing so much, and preparing to store so much more, that they have to build a massive, sprawling new facility in Utah just to hold all the communications from inside the US and around the world that they are collecting - communications they then have the physical ability to invade any time they want ("Collect it all, tag it, store it. . . . And whatever it is you want, you go searching for it").

That is the definition of a ubiquitous surveillance state - and it's been built in the dark, without the knowledge of the American people or people around the world, even though it's aimed at them. How anyone could think this should have all remained concealed - that it would have been better had it just been left to fester and grow in the dark - is truly mystifying."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/15/crux-nsa-collect-it-all

[davew]

Dang, just go to that picture from the government website.

https://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center/

all the way at the bottom of the first page ->

This is a parody of nsa.gov (http://www.nsa.gov/) and has not been approved, endorsed, or authorized by the National Security Agency or by any other U.S. Government agency.
Much of this content was derived from news media, privacy groups, and government websites. Links to these sites are posted on the left-sidebars of each page.

[hcap]

all the way at the bottom of the first page ->

This is a parody of nsa.gov (http://www.nsa.gov/) and has not been approved, endorsed, or authorized by the National Security Agency or by any other U.S. Government agency.
Much of this content was derived from news media, privacy groups, and government websites. Links to these sites are posted on the left-sidebars of each page.Good catch.

Garbage in, garbage out.:lol:

[VigorsTheGrey]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xqTZ6d59a7Y

[hcap]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xqTZ6d59a7YAnother idiotic "Q" video.

I give up.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Another idiotic "Q" video.

I give up.

If only you indeed would “give up” ...but your self-assured mission is to enlighten us by berating and belittling us...

So many here at PA have tried to explain things and be nice to you, but you continue to be condescending...do you really think you CAN “give up”...without us, you wouldn’t know what to do with yourself...maybe you should really try and truly give up...

[PaceAdvantage]

I give up.We should be so lucky.

[hcap]

If only you indeed would “give up” ...but your self-assured mission is to enlighten us by berating and belittling us...

So many here at PA have tried to explain things and be nice to you, but you continue to be condescending...do you really think you CAN “give up”...without us, you wouldn’t know what to do with yourself...maybe you should really try and truly give up...You conspiracy theorists "berate" way more than I ever did or do. You can dish out the disrespect, bur can't take me calling you gents conspiracy theorists.

I asked you to find a c theory by a fringe alt right source that turned out true. "Q" hardly fits that. Or are you now buying into "Q" as truth?

[VigorsTheGrey]

You conspiracy theorists "berate" way more than I ever did or do. You can dish out the disrespect, bur can't take me calling you gents conspiracy theorists.

I asked you to find a c theory by a fringe alt right source that turned out true. "Q" hardly fits that. Or are you now buying into "Q" as truth?

What, do you mean that you ARE NOT a conspiracy theorist as well..?

After all, isn’t the whole FISA application on Carter Page to prove a conspiracy involving Trump and the Russians..?

Unfortunately for you, and the crooks, we all will soon see who the real “conspiracy theorists” REALLY are, Hcap...:cool::headbanger:

More disclosures sure to follow.
Think, why hasn’t Page been charged..?
Page was an FBI informant/ asset...before Trump’s run...

This isn’t going to go well for you Hcap, but I’m sure you will have some back-peddling to do as the evidence mounts of just how corrupt the former group of Dem/ DNC, FBI, etc, are/ were..:faint:

[hcap]

What, do you mean that you ARE NOT a conspiracy theorist as well..?

After all, isn’t the whole FISA application on Carter Page to prove a conspiracy involving Trump and the Russians..?

Unfortunately for you, and the crooks, we all will soon see who the real “conspiracy theorists” REALLY are, Hcap...:cool::headbanger:

More disclosures sure to follow.
Think, why hasn’t Page been charged..?
Page was an FBI informant/ asset...before Trump’s run...

This isn’t going to go well for you Hcap, but I’m sure you will have some back-peddling to do as the evidence mounts of just how corrupt the former group of Dem/ DNC, FBI, etc, are/ were..:faint:No, there is absolutely no truth to this Page conspiracy theory.

Finally at least an alt right fringe theory from the alt right.

Unfortunately for you and the rest of the cultists, there is zero truth in it. So let me guess. You are going to post another alt right story, probably an un-sourced video from another alt right website.

Post a document from a Mainstream news source validating this claim. Btw, this has been argued by the rest of the cultists here forever

[ReplayRandall]

Post a document from a Mainstream news source validating this claim


At the present time, the MSM is still fully compromised, yet staggering....However, that status will soon change out of pure self preservation....Be patient, we're almost at the appointed time.

[PaceAdvantage]

I suggest you stop using the term "the cultists"

Just like the guy who overused the Tuba Player video clip? Your use of "the cultists" has run its course.

Remember, we're all trying to be kinder and gentler here...you said you were going to try yourself...thaskalos was made moderator..and things have only gotten far worse in terms of rhetoric and name calling (both sides).

[ReplayRandall]

In case you don't read the "Q" thread...


JUST IN: President Trump’s top allies in Congress will ask him tomorrow to declassify a bunch of sensitive documents connected to the FBI’s Russia probe....


https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1037371334727266307

[biggestal99]

They just rubber stamped it...fun times:

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-justice-department-discloses-no-fisa-court-hearings-held-on-carter-page-warrants/

"controversial FISA warrants"

There are no controversial FISA warrants, FISA warrants is for foreign spies.
I am 100% for FISA warrants. we need to monitor foreign spies.

Allan

[davew]

No, there is absolutely no truth to this Page conspiracy theory.

Finally at least an alt right fringe theory from the alt right.

Unfortunately for you and the rest of the cultists, there is zero truth in it. So let me guess. You are going to post another alt right story, probably an un-sourced video from another alt right website.

Post a document from a Mainstream news source validating this claim. Btw, this has been argued by the rest of the cultists here forever

It is only a matter of time, until we ALL see the FISA requests.


Of course the 'intelligence communities' are still trying to hide the 'sources and methods' which involve lying to judges and breaking laws :lol::lol::lol:

[Tom]

I am 100% for FISA warrants. we need to monitor foreign spies.

Two words for you....Joe McCarthy.

[JustRalph]

Two words for you....Joe McCarthy.

McCarthey was eventually proven right. Hollywood was full of communist types. This shit today, no such luxury

[VigorsTheGrey]

Two words for you....Joe McCarthy.
Joe’s one word was ‘Communism’ ...He was right, but only half-right...his task was to figure out who was behind the name and expose the Communists...you see, back then it was anti-American to be a Communist...

Now, of course, that has reversed...it is considered anti-American to be anti-Communist...

Russia is no longer Communist, therefore the Communists hate Russia...

...and America is now Communist, therefore the Communists love America...

America was a pristine “petri dish” filled with wonderful people espousing Enlightment values of individualism, self-sufficiency, and personal Liberty...

...But THAT America cannot withstand the team-strategy of relatively homogenous out-groups who exploit that fertile ground...

...But as more and more of THAT FERTILE GROUND is consumed by out-group group ethos...individual liberty shrinks, then fails to sustain...

...and when all the former “Kings in their Own Right” discover their former Kingdom in ruins due to out-group invasion...they shall resolve to rise up and found a group of their own, and make use of the team strategy as well...

in that time, the leading out-group will gain the reins of power, will ban new in-group formation and consolidation, will “illegalize” the in-group “opposition”...

...the out-group minions will lather for their Oriental rulers...and trample Liberty to the last man...

[VigorsTheGrey]

“President Trump, in a clear abuse of power, has decided to intervene in a pending law enforcement investigation by ordering the selective release of materials he believes are helpful to his defense team and thinks will advance a false narrative,” said Rep. Adam Schiff (D., Calif.), the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.”

Wall Steet Journal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-orders-declassification-of-parts-of-fisa-application-related-to-carter-page-1537220786

[ReplayRandall]

“President Trump, in a clear abuse of power, has decided to intervene in a pending law enforcement investigation by ordering the selective release of materials he believes are helpful to his defense team and thinks will advance a false narrative,” said Rep. Adam Schiff (D., Calif.), the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.”

Wall Steet Journal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-orders-declassification-of-parts-of-fisa-application-related-to-carter-page-1537220786

You're all over the place Vigors…..Rein yourself in before the inevitable happens.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I suspect that the fear of disclosure of sources and methods in the Page Application may point to Steele and his Dossier, and the probable London connection as co-conspirators to entrap Trump in criminality, as insurance against a Trump election victory...

...the Trump organization may have been set-up by ‘weaponized’ bi-lateral intel agencies...

London may feel that a Trump presidency would move Washington toward Moscow even more, further displacing London’s former special relationship...

London may correctly perceive that a Trump-Putin alliance would shift power in a Right direction that could by-pass London’s control and machinations...

A few important questions emerge:

Did Trump or the Trump organization, or his associates commit crime...? If so, was Trump, or his associates entrapped...?

Was the FISA process “weaponized” by colluding partisans opposing Trump and his election...?

Was Russia involved in these crimes..? How so...?

Did Russia set-up Trump to destabilize American politics..?

[VigorsTheGrey]

You're all over the place Vigors…..Rein yourself in before the inevitable happens.

My reputation gauge has increased by 14% lately...and as far as I know, I have no red cards against me...Why does my button tell me I have 167 reputation points but only 8 points appear...? Does the point system show only the difference between negative and positive points....? How does one operate the point system, I haven’t figured it out yet...

[ReplayRandall]

My reputation gauge has increased by 14% lately...and as far as I know, I have no red cards against me...Why does my button tell me I have 167 reputation points but only 8 points appear...? Does the point system show only the difference between negative and positive points....? How does one operate the point system, I haven’t figured it out yet...

Hcap tells you to get it together, so does PA Mike, Myself and others....Stop being obtuse, you know what the heck we're talking about....Enough already.

[davew]

“President Trump, in a clear abuse of power, has decided to intervene in a pending law enforcement investigation by ordering the selective release of materials he believes are helpful to his defense team and thinks will advance a false narrative,” said Rep. Adam Schiff (D., Calif.), the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.”

Wall Steet Journal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-orders-declassification-of-parts-of-fisa-application-related-to-carter-page-1537220786

They should have minimum intelligence and logic skill requirements so the ditzy do not get on the House Intelligence Committee.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Hcap tells you to get it together, so does PA Mike, Myself and others....Stop being obtuse, you know what the heck we're talking about....Enough already.
Fine, and I will not belabor this...do you want me to stop posting Tonight’s TruNews as well since Rick Wiles has said it all already and better than me...?

Do you have any idea why my button says I have 167 reputation points but my Rep Power is only 8? What does your button say about your reputation points versus your Rep Power points..?

[ReplayRandall]

Fine, and I will not belabor this...do you want me to stop posting Tonight’s TruNews as well since Rick Wiles has said it all already and better than me...?

Do you have any idea why my button says I have 167 reputation points but my Rep Power is only 8? What does your button say about your reputation points versus your Rep Power points..?

I'll give you a summary of how Rep Power works:

For every YEAR at PA= 1 RP point

For every 1000 posts= 1 RP point

For every 100 positive reputation points= 1 RP point

For every 100 negative reputation points= minus 1 RP point

Your total Rep Power of 8 is correct....

[VigorsTheGrey]

I'll give you a summary of how Rep Power works:

For every YEAR at PA= 1 RP point

For every 1000 posts= 1 RP point

For every 100 positive reputation points= 1 RP point

For every 100 negative reputation points= minus 1 RP point

Your total Rep Power of 8 is correct....

Thanks for sharing this Randall...this means that I show at least 200 more positive points over negative points...and so, I’m a positive member, or member with positive points...

So do you want me to not post TRUNEWS with Rick Wiles or not...?
If this is a source (among many) of your discomforts I want to know and shall no longer post his show (probably should not post Alex Jones as well)...