View Full Version : The Case: DNC vs Russian Federation and others...
VigorsTheGrey
08-27-2018, 10:35 PM
https://cryptome.org/2018/04/dnc-006.pdf
VigorsTheGrey
08-27-2018, 11:27 PM
General Allegations:
1. Trump and Trump’s associates pre-existing relationships with Russia and Russian oligarchs provided fertile ground for Russia-Trump conspiracy.
2. The common purpose: Bolster Trump and denigrate the Democratic Party nominee.
3. The conspiracy to disseminate stolen DNC data to aid Trump.
(Items A through N)
4. Defendants’ repeated efforts to cover up contacts with Russians evidence their consciousness of guilt.
5. The significant harm inflicted upon Plantiff (DNC).
VigorsTheGrey
08-28-2018, 12:52 AM
Russia not the only country spying on election matters..https://www.reuters.com/article/us-election-intelligence-commentary-idUSKCN10F1H5
General Allegations:
1. Trump and Trump’s associates pre-existing relationships with Russia and Russian oligarchs provided fertile ground for Russia-Trump conspiracy.
2. The common purpose: Bolster Trump and denigrate the Democratic Party nominee.
3. The conspiracy to disseminate stolen DNC data to aid Trump.
(Items A through N)
4. Defendants’ repeated efforts to cover up contacts with Russians evidence their consciousness of guilt.
5. The significant harm inflicted upon Plantiff (DNC).
So what? This suit was demised legally unfortunately.
Democratic National Committee v. Russian Federation, et al. is a civil lawsuit filed by the Democratic National Committee in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York against the Russian Federation and other entities and individuals. The case, relating to Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, was filed on April 20, 2018.[1] Judge John G. Koeltl will preside over the case.[2]
Outcome..
But Huvelle made clear that her decision was a technical one based on issues of legal jurisdiction and was not a definitive ruling on allegations that the Trump campaign struck an illicit deal with the Russians during the presidential contest.
I repeat SO WHAT?
What is your point?
VigorsTheGrey
08-28-2018, 03:15 AM
So what? This suit was demised legally unfortunately.
Democratic National Committee v. Russian Federation, et al. is a civil lawsuit filed by the Democratic National Committee in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York against the Russian Federation and other entities and individuals. The case, relating to Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections, was filed on April 20, 2018.[1] Judge John G. Koeltl will preside over the case.[2]
Outcome..
But Huvelle made clear that her decision was a technical one based on issues of legal jurisdiction and was not a definitive ruling on allegations that the Trump campaign struck an illicit deal with the Russians during the presidential contest.
I repeat SO WHAT?
What is your point?
I didn’t know that the case was dismissed...I haven’t followed the details of all this that closely.
So are there any cases filed with the correct legal jurisdiction that mirrors the allegations from this case..?
Or did this entire scenario prove to be a fiction..? I’m not clear on what Donald is being accused of having done wrong that is an impeachable offense for him personally...?
With regard to the Russian spying on the US to influence elections, doesn’t the populace who condemn this hacking realize that the USA is much better at it and has probably been doing it for longer than Russia has...
Still doesn’t make it right but the outrage is hypocritical...and again, our own government SPIES ON US as well, as Edward Snowden so courageously revealed for the world to see...and not just our State, but most technologically advanced nations are in league with the USA AND DOING IT TO THEIR OWN PEOPLE AS WELL...!
The modern totalitarian/ democratic/ Republican state security apparatus simple cannot be trusted to do what is in the best interests of the citizens...we KNOW this FOR SURE after decades and decades of being LIED TO...it doesn’t matter who gets into office...it’s the same crap every time...
Donald Trump supposedly was elected on a populist wave of disgust with the status quo politics of the Bushes, Clinton’s, Obama included...But my greatest fear is that Trumps entire plutocratic being and the fact that he is in charge of over 500 of his own companies will leave him very little time to act in the interests of the American people..
..But I feel that he is probably just as disgusted with politics as those who support him are...so i’m Giving him the benefit of the doubt here and allowing him the space to work his own magic and lead us to a better place for as many as humanly possible...deep down, I think the man is bored of power roles and wants to do what is right for the many...
I am only going to deal with your speculations one or two at a time. Your previous posts 1 and 2 have very little to do with your new ones.
I didn’t know that the case was dismissed...I haven’t followed the details of all this that closely.
So are there any cases filed with the correct legal jurisdiction that mirrors the allegations from this case..? You are not paying much attention. The Mueller investigation is very much about Russians interfering in the 2016 elections. With individuals from the Trump campaign and very possibly Trump himself. Mueller was appointed "with the correct legal jurisdiction "
Latest allegations have led back to the SDNY, and the second Manafort trial. To uncover Manafort and Gates full connections with the Russian, Ukrainian intel hub, with Konstantin Kilimnik, an Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska
Except it is a criminal investigation not civil. And many Russians have already be indicted.
VigorsTheGrey
08-28-2018, 12:59 PM
I am only going to deal with your speculations one or two at a time. Your previous posts 1 and 2 have very little to do with your new ones.
You are not paying much attention. The Mueller investigation is very much about Russians interfering in the 2016 elections. With individuals from the Trump campaign and very possibly Trump himself. Mueller was appointed "with the correct legal jurisdiction "
Latest allegations have led back to the SDNY, and the second Manafort trial. To uncover Manafort and Gates full connections with the Russian, Ukrainian intel hub, with Konstantin Kilimnik, an Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska
Except it is a criminal investigation not civil. And many Russians have already be indicted.
This must be the case you are referring to...
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/mueller-12-russians.pdf
VigorsTheGrey
08-28-2018, 03:15 PM
Please find below the dossier reputed to be “fake news” source...originally published (leaked) apparently, by Buzzfeed...
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984/Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.pdf
I believe the dossier is the “Steele Dossier”...
https://themoscowproject.org/dossier/
VigorsTheGrey
08-28-2018, 03:59 PM
https://themoscowproject.org/chapters/
VigorsTheGrey
08-29-2018, 09:46 PM
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/FISA-Spy-Carter-Page.pdf
Republicans believe it is important for Americans to know what is in the black redacted portions of the document...the document clearly suggests that Page is an “agent of a foreign power” or is acting “as an agent of a foreign power..”
Excerpt from The Daily Caller: “House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes claimed last month that the FBI and Justice Department failed to include exculpatory evidence in surveillance warrant applications against former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page. (RELATED: Nunes: FBI Failed To Include ‘Exculpatory’ Evidence In Carter Page Fisas)
“I think you are accusing an American citizen of a crime for which he has not been charged. So I’m going to leave that between you and your libel lawyer to sort out,” Carlson responded. “But keep in mind, the person you accused of being a Russian agent has denied it and never been charged with it, and there’s no evidence that he was. So it’s a very heavy thing to say about a fellow American.”
https://dailycaller.com/2018/07/29/maria-bartiromo-devin-nunes-interview/
chadk66
08-29-2018, 10:32 PM
I thought those 13 Russians showed up for court against Mueller:lol:
VigorsTheGrey
08-29-2018, 10:40 PM
I thought those 13 Russians showed up for court against Mueller:lol:
Just trying to stay current on all this...bizarre how reports say Hillary was responsible for Steele Dossier...and this Ohr character is very intriguing, like Hillary’s go-to guy in the Justice Dept...and now there are rumors that this whole Trump Russia thing was a set-up from the beginning...oh vey...wheels within wheels...
VigorsTheGrey
08-29-2018, 10:44 PM
Manafort’s Trial Exhibit List:
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/manafort-189.pdf
VigorsTheGrey
08-30-2018, 09:14 AM
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/ssci-russia-2018-07-03.pdf
Source Report for above:
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/ica-2017.pdf
VigorsTheGrey
08-30-2018, 09:26 AM
https://dailycaller.com/2018/07/21/doj-release-carter-page-fisa/
VigorsTheGrey
08-30-2018, 09:40 AM
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-dossier/trump-presses-supreme-court-chief-justice-for-action-on-dossier-idUSKCN1LF06A
This must be the case you are referring to...
https://cryptome.org/2018/07/mueller-12-russians.pdfI said one point at a time. You refuse to stay on topic.
You heve a shotgun approach to debate. No depth, just throws all the nonsense you can find up on the wall. You did the same with your chentrails blather. You never responded to my criticisms of the patents you mindlessly posted going back over 100 years ago, or that patents prove absolutely nothing.
I notice on the religious thread you do similar unfocused posts.
I think I will let you fire your shotguns without me.
boxcar
08-30-2018, 10:47 AM
I said one point at a time. You refuse to stay on topic. You heve a shotgun approach to debate. No depth, just throws all the nonsense you can find up on the wall.
You have truly found your soul mate in Vig. :coffee:
VigorsTheGrey
08-30-2018, 12:56 PM
You have truly found your soul mate in Vig. :coffee:i find it quite pointless to attempt dialogue with a party who is confirmed in their position such that they do not attempt to even listen to what the other person has to offer to the conversation.
...look how long you and Actor have gone at it, or how long you and Hcap have attacked one another....? What really is the point on all that one-up-man-ship...? To “prove” that “I am right” over essentially unprovable things or opinions...?
I’m right because I like vanilla... you are wrong because you like chocolate...
I get rather bored with “fixed ideas” and with people who embrace them...
..oh, but I know, you speak the truth...yes and Hcap speaks, the truth, and Actor speaks the truth, and yes of course Vigors speaks the truth...ho hum, we all are really not as important as we think we are..
...nor are our ideas as important as we deem them to be...live and let live...
i find it quite pointless to attempt dialogue with a party who is confirmed in their position such that they do not attempt to even listen to what the other person has to offer to the conversation.
I poked plenty of holes in your chentrails conspiracy theory. Here you post more conspiracy theories one after another.
I reply to one, and you post another set of many more.
I do not have the time, inclination or desire to spend months poking holes in your theories that have already appeared here on off topic by similar Trumpeteer fans, I have already spent months dealing with. Too many headaches. If you can post one topic at a time, I will skip answering you
I should have known your vague references to a questionable book written Uncle Joe Stalin to make an absurd point, is your vague scattered style.
chadk66
08-30-2018, 08:03 PM
with all this new stuff leaking out and if Trump axes Sessions, it could get damn interesting in a hell of a hurry if he puts the right guy in there.
fast4522
08-30-2018, 08:43 PM
He will not have to fire him.
chadk66
08-30-2018, 09:39 PM
He will not have to fire him.trying to save his pension :pound:
VigorsTheGrey
08-31-2018, 12:40 AM
You have truly found your soul mate in Vig. :coffee:
You can have your friend back Boxcar, as you probably are aware, I'm souless now...
VigorsTheGrey
08-31-2018, 01:56 AM
I found this from an anonymous poster on the internet...this is NOT ME speaking...but sounds plausible...
"As the “failed coup” narrative continues to escalate, I have noticed a disturbing trend in America which matches certain elements of the coups in Turkey and Saudi Arabia. That is to say, it is possible that another “failed coup” is pending for the U.S, opening the path for Donald Trump to initiate martial law-like measures.
I warned of this possibility months before the election in my article ‘Clinton Versus Trump And The Co-Option Of The Liberty Movement‘, which partially explains the reasons why I predicted that Trump would win and ascend to the Oval Office.
At that time I was certain that the globalists would find great use for a Trump presidency, more so in fact than a Clinton presidency. However, I was not sure whether Trump was controlled opposition or simply a useful scapegoat for the economic crisis that globalists are clearly engineering. Now it appears that he is both.
Trump’s history was already suspicious. He was bailed out of his considerable debts surrounding his Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City in the early 1990s by Rothschild banking agent Wilber Ross, which saved him from embarrassment and possibly saved his entire fortune. This alone was not necessarily enough to deny Trump the benefit of the doubt in my view.
Many businessmen end up dealing with elitist controlled banks at some point in their careers. But when Trump entered office and proceeded to load his cabinet with ghouls from Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, the Council on Foreign Relations and give Wilber Ross the position of Commerce Secretary, it became obvious that Trump is in fact a puppet for the banks.
Some liberty movement activists ignore this reality and attempt to argue around the facts of Trump’s associations. “What about all the media opposition to Trump? Doesn’t this indicate he's not controlled?” they say. I say, not really."
VigorsTheGrey
09-02-2018, 12:50 AM
Some of the best information on the Internet from a conservative viewpoint....very troubling information contained indeed...I just want the truth...I don't trust the either of the political parties at all...and this thing stinks to high heaven all the way around...https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/the-gop-memo-proves-the-deep-state-is-real/
https://www.conservapedia.com/Russiagate_timeline_2018
VigorsTheGrey
09-02-2018, 01:52 AM
Timeline portal
Great website
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2017/12/a-timeline-of-treason-how-fbi.html
fast4522
09-02-2018, 08:56 AM
There are tons of anonymous posters on the internet, post just one that is not by design disinformation. Why don't you copy and paste the commie news network "the walls are closing in" crap. Trump screwed the central bankers when Atlantic City went upside down, it is called leverage. If you have no leverage it is because of bad timing and poor representation by tax attorneys and accountants. Elitist and globalist types are everywhere, did they have any ability to stop President Donald J. Trump from not using tariffs that crushed their investments in emerging markets? NFW.
Disinformation seems useless against our President who currently is good for our 401K's. Keep trying maybe you will find anonymous something that has some legs.
VigorsTheGrey
09-02-2018, 11:45 AM
There are tons of anonymous posters on the internet, post just one that is not by design disinformation. Why don't you copy and paste the commie news network "the walls are closing in" crap. Trump screwed the central bankers when Atlantic City went upside down, it is called leverage. If you have no leverage it is because of bad timing and poor representation by tax attorneys and accountants. Elitist and globalist types are everywhere, did they have any ability to stop President Donald J. Trump from not using tariffs that crushed their investments in emerging markets? NFW.
Disinformation seems useless against our President who currently is good for our 401K's. Keep trying maybe you will find anonymous something that has some legs.
We have more to fear from the "Deep State" or "Permanent Government" than from Donald...the Presidency as an institution is finished... The clear message to the sheep is "Elect OUR Candidate, or else...politicians like the Bushes and the Clinton's, the Charles Shumers of the world make me physically ill...just how much a renegade Trump is remains to be seen...he could be just Business as Globalist Usual by another means...the message is clear....Play by our rules or else...that is what the " Insurance Policy" is all about...he Trump doesn't buckle to Globalist demands, he will be destroyed...made to fail, etc...
VigorsTheGrey
09-04-2018, 10:21 AM
Sam Patten case..short download from Cryptome...
https://cryptome.org/2018/09/patten-007.pdf
Sam Patten case..short download from Cryptome...
https://cryptome.org/2018/09/patten-007.pdf
Why do you post Court case documents? More of your shotgun approach without a point to be made?
It is enough to knows Mueller is moving along flipping and indicting more the Trump/associates tangled web of Russian Trump campaign connections.
The many investigations, Mueller, the SDNY, the NYS attorney general, the Manhattan DA, the Senate intel committee are pointing to the most corrupt preznit in US history.
VigorsTheGrey
09-04-2018, 12:21 PM
Why do you post Court case documents? More of your shotgun approach without a point to be made?
It is enough to knows Mueller is moving along flipping and indicting more the Trump/associates tangled web of Russian Trump campaign connections.
The many investigations, Mueller, the SDNY, the NYS attorney general, the Manhattan DA, the Senate intel committee are pointing to the most corrupt preznit in US history.
I like to read what the facts are, or at least what the allegations are...I wouldn't want anyone here on PA to think that I was mere " theorist of the conspiratorial" now would I..?
I like to read what the facts are, or at least what the allegations are...I wouldn't want anyone here on PA to think that I was mere " theorist of the conspiratorial" now would I..?Are you a lawyer? Are you quoting an expert legal opinion? Any mainstream news site can inform you correctly. It's only the alt right news sites that spin a mile a minute on the Mueller investigation.
VigorsTheGrey
09-04-2018, 01:56 PM
Are you a lawyer? Are you quoting an expert legal opinion? Any mainstream news site can inform you correctly. It's only the alt right news sites that spin a mile a minute on the Mueller investigation.
No, not a lawyer but I have a legalistic mind ..and I have been thought to have an overly rigid mindset...something quite common...this mental rigidity gets in the way sometimes...over the years I have learned to be more flexible...it is healthier, IMO...
No, not a lawyer but I have a legalistic mind ..and I have been thought to have an overly rigid mindset...something quite common...this mental rigidity gets in the way sometimes...over the years I have learned to be more flexible...it is healthier, IMO...Then drop Sarah Palin's advice. BTW, I brought up 3 instances of government wrong doing exposed by the Mainstream media. I asked you which, if any conspiracy theories by fringe or alt right sources, have been proven?
VigorsTheGrey
09-04-2018, 02:47 PM
Then drop Sarah Palin's advice. BTW, I brought up 3 instances of government wrong doing exposed by the Mainstream media. I asked you which, if any conspiracy theories by fringe or alt right sources, have been proven?
Edward Snowden has proved that the US government has secretly built and maintains hyper intrusive spying apparatuses in collusion with large telecoms capable of listening in on various communication formats of virtually anyone through out the world...
Edward Snowden has proved that the US government has secretly built and maintains hyper intrusive spying apparatuses in collusion with large telecoms capable of listening in on various communication formats of virtually anyone through out the world...Not too bad but not a fringe or alt right disclosure.
In April 2012, NSA contractor Edward Snowden began downloading documents.[87] That year, Snowden had made his first contact with journalist Glenn Greenwald, then employed by The Guardian, and he contacted documentary filmmaker Laura Poitras in January 2013.[88][89]
Last I heard The Guardian was a mainstream media source.
Global surveillance disclosures (2013–present)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013%E2%80%93pres ent)#Disclosures
VigorsTheGrey
09-04-2018, 03:52 PM
Not too bad but not a fringe or alt right disclosure.
Last I heard The Guardian was a mainstream media source.
Global surveillance disclosures (2013–present)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013%E2%80%93pres ent)#Disclosures
Why don't you give me a list of the "so-called fringe or alt right disclosures" and I'll let you know if I believe in any of them and how firmly...OK?
VigorsTheGrey
09-05-2018, 01:10 AM
https://archive.org/details/InfiltrationRunsDeepOperationCounterClownsCongress IsInSessionsEpisode1655b_201809
VigorsTheGrey
09-05-2018, 02:23 AM
https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/1-Complaint.pdf
Lert's see a "Q" video, and a court documentary
You are not helping your conspiratorial case.
VigorsTheGrey
09-07-2018, 10:51 PM
Comey firing...
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3711188/Rosenstein-letter-on-Comey-firing.pdf
VigorsTheGrey
09-10-2018, 02:25 PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=british+spy+documents+shows+obama+intent+ to+spy+on+Trump&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwio-rbfhrHdAhWGGXwKHfXgCncQ_AUIEigC&biw=1366&bih=922#imgrc=2x65mVkHT5l1GM:
http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/world-news/1937-proof-british-intelligence-spied-on-donald-trump-at-the-direct-request-of-president-barack-obama-and-a-later-renewed-request-by-susan-rice
fast4522
09-10-2018, 11:41 PM
FBI OFFICIALS DISCUSSED ‘MEDIA LEAK STRATEGY’ AHEAD OF MAJOR TRUMP-RUSSIA REVELATION
https://dailycaller.com/2018/09/10/strzok-media-leak-text/
VigorsTheGrey
09-11-2018, 04:04 PM
https://archive.org/stream/Russian-Active-Measures-House-Intel-2018/HRPT-115-1#page/n0/mode/1up
March 22, 2018
VigorsTheGrey
09-11-2018, 08:29 PM
https://ia802806.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/1/items/Russian-Active-Measures-House-Intel-2018/HRPT-115-1_jp2.zip&file=HRPT-115-1_jp2/HRPT-115-1_0069.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0
https://ia802806.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/1/items/Russian-Active-Measures-House-Intel-2018/HRPT-115-1_jp2.zip&file=HRPT-115-1_jp2/HRPT-115-1_0070.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0
https://ia802806.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/1/items/Russian-Active-Measures-House-Intel-2018/HRPT-115-1_jp2.zip&file=HRPT-115-1_jp2/HRPT-115-1_0071.jp2&scale=4&rotate=0
Apparently, the Committee didn’t find anything....
fast4522
09-12-2018, 06:10 PM
Trump authorizes sanctions to punish foreign interference in US elections
Is this you VigorsTheGrey?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/trump-authorizes-broad-sanctions-on-future-election-interference.html
VigorsTheGrey
09-12-2018, 06:42 PM
Trump authorizes sanctions to punish foreign interference in US elections
Is this you VigorsTheGrey?
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/12/trump-authorizes-broad-sanctions-on-future-election-interference.html
Me, influence..? I can’t even influence Fast4522 or Hcap...you give me too much credit really...armchair propagandist..? Here, nobody listens to me at all, they all think I am some kind of kook....I have just 7 reputation points...do you really think anyone here takes me seriously...it is all about content and facts, and how those can be verified...it is not about me per se, but about the CONTENT of what is displayed...address the content, instead of trying to discredit, or taint the messenger...
fast4522
09-12-2018, 06:47 PM
We listen to you, you and ET had a thread to yourselves for a couple of days till someone did not figure out what the rest of us were doing. Your reference to war and Israel and the United States fighting it's war was so cute. By now everyone is doing a ping on your addy.
Continue on.
davew
09-12-2018, 06:51 PM
Then drop Sarah Palin's advice. BTW, I brought up 3 instances of government wrong doing exposed by the Mainstream media. I asked you which, if any conspiracy theories by fringe or alt right sources, have been proven?
Are you a lawyer? Are you quoting an expert legal opinion? Any mainstream news site can misinform you liberally.
Hillary said that pres Bills blow jobs were just alt right conspiracy theories. I was not there, but they seem to have been acknowledged as true.
elysiantraveller
09-12-2018, 07:19 PM
We listen to you, you and ET had a thread to yourselves for a couple of days till someone did not figure out what the rest of us were doing. Your reference to war and Israel and the United States fighting it's war was so cute. By now everyone is doing a ping on your addy.
Continue on.
How did I get dragged into this?
I was mostly just discussing the war in Syria. I took no sides in that thread on anything.
VigorsTheGrey
09-12-2018, 07:45 PM
We listen to you, you and ET had a thread to yourselves for a couple of days till someone did not figure out what the rest of us were doing. Your reference to war and Israel and the United States fighting it's war was so cute. By now everyone is doing a ping on your addy.
Continue on.
Cool, thanks...really, I am not some quit of spook...in fact, i’m prolly one of THE most unconnected persons in the USA...that’s why I lurk in here....I LIKE the people here...many of them have senses of humor...a rare commodity nowadays...
Say you teach me how to “ping the addy”. ...I’ve never done it...I’ll do it for you and you can do it for me...ok...? See, I’m not completely immune to quid pro quo...:)
fast4522
09-12-2018, 10:06 PM
I am just a pro Israel kind of guy, noticing your content is all.
VigorsTheGrey
09-12-2018, 10:50 PM
I am just a pro Israel kind of guy, noticing your content is all.
That’s fine...I’m just learning all sorts of things about how the political world really functions...The name that keeps coming up for me: Bibi Netanyahu, a very interesting man...I find it fascinating that his main support in America should come from Evangelical Christians and not from liberal, secular Jews...what is your opinion of Bibi...?
fast4522
09-12-2018, 11:42 PM
Go figure for yourself, your the guy who thinks he is well received.
So carry on and lets see where you go next.
VigorsTheGrey
09-13-2018, 01:00 AM
I am just a pro Israel kind of guy, noticing your content is all.
Off the subject, but I decided to respond anyway...This document, IMO sums up the Current Israeli position and most probably Netanyahu’s rhetoric...written in 1923 by Ze’ev Jabotinsky.
“The Iron Wall
We cannot offer any adequate compensation to the Palestinian Arabs in return for Palestine. And therefore, there is no likelihood of any voluntary agreement being reached. So that all those who regard such an agreement as a condition sine qua non for Zionism may as well say "non" and withdraw from Zionism.
Zionist colonisation must either stop, or else pive population. Which means that it can proceed and develop only under the protection of a power that is independent of the native population – behind an iron wall, which the native population cannot breach.
That is our Arab policy; not what we should be, but what it actually is, whether we admit it or not. What need, otherwise, of the Balfour Declaration? Or of the Mandate? Their value to us is that outside Power has undertaken to create in the country such conditions of administration and security that if the native population should desire to hinder our work, they will find it impossible.
And we are all of us ,without any exception, demanding day after day that this outside Power, should carry out this task vigorously and with determination.
In this matter there is no difference between our "militarists" and our "vegetarians". Except that the first prefer that the iron wall should consist of Jewish soldiers, and the others are content that they should be British.
We all demand that there should be an iron wall. Yet we keep spoiling our own case, by talking about "agreement" which means telling the Mandatory Government that the important thing is not the iron wall, but discussions. Empty rhetoric of this kind is dangerous. And that is why itis not only a pleasure but a duty to discredit it and to demonstrate that it is both fantastic and dishonest.”
Ze’ev Jabotinsky 1923
VigorsTheGrey
09-23-2018, 08:18 PM
Massive New York Times Article released Thursday...
https://www.wral.com/the-plot-to-subvert-an-election-unraveling-the-russia-story-so-far/17860408/
Tread lightly, let me know what you think after reading it...
VigorsTheGrey
09-24-2018, 12:04 AM
Massive New York Times Article released Thursday...
https://www.wral.com/the-plot-to-subvert-an-election-unraveling-the-russia-story-so-far/17860408/
Tread lightly, let me know what you think after reading it...
I thought it was a good article :ThmbUp::ThmbUp: and recommend that you do indeed read it through...it flows well and keeps your attention...like a spy, mystery mini-series that we all are now living through...
you get to know all the characters involved and their various parts being played...how much of it is fact over fiction only time will time...provided we can trust Mueller to out the truth...
I have my reservations about Mueller...he didn’t do a very good job, IMHO, with the 911 Non-Investigation...so do I think he is capable of covering things up...?
At this point it is kind of like we are all blind men feeling our way around different parts of an elephant and convincing ourselves what type of non-elephant it is...
You see, most of us are, as the joke goes, company mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed BS...
I dislike being in that position, but it is difficult to know who or what to believe and have any confidence about an obvious spy versus spy set-up or cover-up game of some sort...
I bothers me now that Trump is backing down from the disclosures he promised, citing the interest of our “allies” who are protesting their release...
I sincerely hope we get to the bottom of this, and either outcome is (not) fine with me, but what I fear is that the American people are getting the shaft from BOTH SIDES now...but then again, that has been straight from the playbook for sometime now...:ThmbDown:
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