On the Republican Party

[betchatoo]

Several people, in various links, have described their disappointment in what the Democratic party has become. I have felt the same way about the GOP and thought about expresssing it. Then I came across this article by Garrison Keillor (of Prarie Home Companion fame) that I thought worded it well.

August 26, 2004

Something has gone seriously haywire with the Republican Party. Once, it was the party of pragmatic Main Street businessmen in steel-rimmed spectacles who decried profligacy and waste, were devoted to their communities and supported the sort of prosperity that raises all ships. They were good-hearted people who vanquished the gnarlier elements of their party, the
paranoid Roosevelt-haters, the flat Earthers and Prohibitionists, the antipapist antiforeigner element.

The genial Eisenhower was their man, a genuine American hero of D-Day, who made it OK for reasonable people to vote Republican. He brought the Korean War to a stalemate, produced the Interstate Highway System, declined to rescue the French colonial army in Vietnam, and gave us a period of peace and prosperity, in which (oddly) American arts and letters flourished and
higher education burgeoned - and there was a degree of plain decency in the country. Fifties Republicans were giants compared to today's. Richard Nixon was the last Republican leader to feel a Christian obligation toward the poor.

In the years between Nixon and Newt Gingrich, the party migrated southward down the Twisting Trail of Rhetoric and sneered at the idea of public service and became the Scourge of Liberalism, the Great Crusade Against the Sixties, the Death Star of Government, a gang of pirates that diverted and fascinated the media by their sheer chutzpah, such as the misty-eyed flag-waving of Ronald Reagan who, while George McGovern flew bombers in World War II, took a pass and made training films in Long Beach. The Nixon moderate vanished like the passenger pigeon, purged by a legion of angry white men who rose to power on pure punk politics. "Bipartisanship is another term for date rape," says Grover Norquist, the Sid Vicious of the GOP. "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." The boy has Oedipal problems and government is his daddy.

The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong's moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt's evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No. 1 reason the rest of the world thinks we're deaf, dumb and dangerous.

Rich ironies abound! Lies pop up like toadstools in the forest! Wild swine crowd round the public trough! Outrageous gerrymandering! Pocket lining on a massive scale! Paid lobbyists sit in committee rooms and write legislation to alleviate the suffering of billionaires! Hypocrisies shine like cat turds in the moonlight! O Mark Twain, where art thou at this hour? Arise and
behold the Gilded Age reincarnated gaudier than ever, upholding great wealth as the sure sign of Divine Grace.

Here in 2004, George W. Bush is running for reelection on a platform of tragedy - the single greatest failure of national defense in our history, the attacks of 9/11 in which 19 men with box cutters put this nation into a tailspin, a failure the details of which the White House fought to keep secret even as it ran the country into hock up to the hubcaps, thanks to generous tax cuts for the well-fixed, hoping to lead us into a box canyon of debt that will render government impotent, even as we engage in a war against a small country that was undertaken for the president's personal satisfaction but sold to the American public on the basis of brazen misinformation, a war whose purpose is to distract us from an enormous transfer of wealth taking place in this country, flowing upward, and the deception is working beautifully.

The concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the few is the death knell of democracy. No republic in the history of humanity has survived this. The election of 2004 will say something about what happens to ours. The omens are not good.

Our beloved land has been fogged with fear - fear, the greatest political strategy ever. An ominous silence, distant sirens, a drumbeat of whispered warnings and alarms to keep the public uneasy and silence the opposition. And in a time of vague fear, you can appoint bullet-brained judges, strip the bark off the Constitution, eviscerate federal regulatory agencies, bring public education to a standstill, stupefy the press, lavish gorgeous tax breaks on the rich.

There is a stink drifting through this election year. It isn't the Florida recount or the Supreme Court decision. No, it's 9/11 that we keep coming back to. It wasn't the "end of innocence," or a turning point in our history, or a cosmic occurrence, it was an event, a lapse of security. And
patriotism shouldn't prevent people from asking hard questions of the man who was purportedly in charge of national security at the time.

Whenever I think of those New Yorkers hurrying along Park Place or getting off the No. 1 Broadway local, hustling toward their office on the 90th floor, the morning paper under their arms, I think of that non-reader George W. Bush and how he hopes to exploit those people with a little economic uptick, maybe the capture of Osama, cruise to victory in November and proceed to get some serious nation-changing done in his second term.

This year, as in the past, Republicans will portray us Democrats as embittered academics, desiccated Unitarians, whacked-out hippies and communards, people who talk to telephone poles, the party of the Deadheads. They will wave enormous flags and wow over and over the footage of firemen in the wreckage of the World Trade Center and bodies being carried out and
they will lie about their economic policies with astonishing enthusiasm.

The Union is what needs defending this year. Government of Enron and by Halliburton and for the Southern Baptists is not the same as what Lincoln spoke of. This gang of Pithecanthropus Republicanii has humbugged us to death on terrorism and tax cuts for the comfy and school prayer and flag burning and claimed the right to know what books we read and to dump their
sewage upstream from the town and clear-cut the forests and gut the IRS and mark up the constitution on behalf of intolerance and promote the corporate takeover of the public airwaves and to hell with anybody who opposes them.

This is a great country, and it wasn't made so by angry people. We have a sacred duty to bequeath it to our grandchildren in better shape than however we found it. We have a long way to go and we're not getting any younger.

Dante said that the hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who in time of crisis remain neutral, so I have spoken my piece, and thank you, dear reader. It's a beautiful world, rain or shine, and there is more to life than winning.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Garrison Keillor is the host and writer of A Prairie Home Companion, now in its 25th year on the air. This adapted excerpt is from Keillor's new book, Homegrown Democrat (c 2004)

[lsbets]

Wow - I never realized I was a racist, neo Nazi, tax cheat before. The author says that this nation was not made great by angry people - a look in the mirror is recommended. I hope Garrison Keillor feels better after spewing hate like this, he truly is a worthless POS, and so is anyone who blanketly agrees with this piece of trash that he wrote. I lay my ass on the line everyday to defend assholes like this only to be called a racist, nihilist, hack, brownshirt, etc. simply because I vote Republican. I'm glad you thought it was worded well betchatoo, it speaks volumes about your lack of character.

[ljb]

I like this. Garrison has defined some on this board. Oops looks like the truth has already bit someone in the arse. :D :D :D

[lsbets]

So ljb are you saying that I am a racist Nazi? Sounds that way to me. Would you be man enough to stand infront of me or any of my comrades and say that. I didn't think so.

[ljb]

So lsbets,
are you challenging me to a duel? Zig zag zell's leap back to the eighteenth century lives on!

[lsbets]

A duel would imply that you had something resembling a fair chance. I am calling you a worthless, gutless POS, and a coward who would not have the guts to stand in front of me and repeat his words.

[ljb]

Wow !
It appears that Garrison had you pegged. If taken in small doses the truth can help you, try not to accept it all at once. You may want to take some valium and calm down a bit. Have a good day!

[lsbets]

Ljb,

Glad to see that you are still the fine human being that you always were.

Pa, can we reopen that poll on this POS?

[Secretariat]

Isbets,

I read Keilor's piece. Where does he use the word Nazi or racist and accuse you of such? Just curious.

Seems the article is about the transition of the Republican party over the years into something different than it was, rather than an attack on you.

[lsbets]

Sec,

Here is where he states who he thinks composes the Republican Party today:


"The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong's moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt's evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No. 1 reason the rest of the world thinks we're deaf, dumb and dangerous"

Note the words racist and brownshirt. Brownshirt refers to Nazis.

[ljb]

from lsbets
"Pa, can we reopen that poll on this POS? "
Translation:
This guy is getting to me, can't we ban him?

lsbets, I hate to hit you with more truth. You are in a stressful situation and I don't want you to blow a gasket there. BUT: You are putting your ass on the line to protect the interests of the Saudi royal family.

[lsbets]

ljb,

I am putting my ass on the line to protect the interests of America and that includes pieces of crap such as yourself. Hide behind your keyboard in the safety of your home, and when you sleep next to your wife at night and get to see your children think of the people like me who make it possible for you to live the life of a total ass.

Would I prefer not to listen to your crap - absolutely. I come on this board for a little taste of home while I spend my time in this shithole. You take your life for granted, I have seen what the cost of freedom is. You can be proud thinking that your words might bring down the morale of a soldier, but I can tell you they do not, and to think that you would be proud of something like that only reveals what a disgusting person you are. I am proud to serve here in Iraq, and am proud of what we are doing here.

The way I read the last part of your post, you are attempting to casue doubt and demoralize a soldier in the Army who is at war. In my book that is treason. You are attempting to aid the enemy by discouraging our troops. A fine man you are ljb, a fine man.

[sq764]

Isbets, the unfortunate part is that in addition to fighting for his safety and well being, you also fight for his freedom of speech, as disgusting and Michael Moore-like as it is...

[ljb]

lsbets,
You are quite full of yourself aren't you?
If you don't wish to read my posts, put me on your ignore list. In the meantime, the mellow dramatics are a bit much. I have had conversations with a young man who spent time in Iraq (dessert storm), Afghanistan, and Iraq again. A career soldier. He is scheduled to muster out within a year. He has had enough and is ready to get on with his life. The government has other ideas and he will most likely be "drafted" to spend more time in the shithole with you. I have no intention of demoralizing anyone. It seems your commander in chief is doing that quite nicely thank you.
ps. I fully supported going after Bin Laden and I demonstrated against Bush's irrational invasion of Iraq.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
from lsbets
"Pa, can we reopen that poll on this POS? "
Translation:
This guy is getting to me, can't we ban him?

lsbets, I hate to hit you with more truth. You are in a stressful situation and I don't want you to blow a gasket there. BUT: You are putting your ass on the line to protect the interests of the Saudi royal family.

Translated: I know Lsbets can't get in my face, so like a little girl in 2nd grade I'm hiding behind my mommy while I'll taunt him. I know it's not bravery, but it's the best I can roll out given my mental makeup.

Lsbets,

Just ignore their sh-t. This is the same BS from the early 1970s. It's like seeing an instant replay.

[ElKabong]

as for Garrison Keilor....

Exactly what qualifies him to be a "spokesman" for the left? What on his resume makes him an expert on politics any more than any one of us?

[ljb]

Elk,
They were proven to be right in the 70s and they will be proven right in this event also. Oh and I did suggest to lsbets that he ignore me. Thanks for the support.

[JustMissed]

Posted by Betchatoo:"fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience".

I told you guys in another post that the Devil had highjacked the Demorcratic Party.

I told you part of his plan is to attack Christians at every opportunity.

Out of one side of the DemLib's mouth he says he wants to talk about the issues, out of the other side he spews this venom about good and descent Christians.

I'm begging you, don't let lying John Kerry drag you down the road to death and darkness.

It is time for you guys to look at the big picture and see the light.

It's not about Republican v. Democrat

It's about Good v. Evil

JM

[ljb]

From Elk
"as for Garrison Keilor.... Exactly what qualifies him to be a "spokesman" for the left? What on his resume makes him an expert on politics any more than any one of us?
Nothing, he just wrote his opinion. For as he said remaining silent is the worst kind of sin.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
Elk,
They were proven to be right in the 70s and they will be proven right in this event also. Oh and I did suggest to lsbets that he ignore me. Thanks for the support.

Ljb,

So let me get you straight. You're comparing the current Middle East situation to Vietnam in importance of nat'l security *and* personal safety? Is that right?

Btw, you get no support from me until you apologize to lsbets for being an ass.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
From Elk
"as for Garrison Keilor.... Exactly what qualifies him to be a "spokesman" for the left? What on his resume makes him an expert on politics any more than any one of us?
Nothing, he just wrote his opinion. For as he said remaining silent is the worst kind of sin.

Too bad he didn't mention cowardice and ignorance, both of which keilor has plenty of.

[lsbets]

sq,

Yes, i am also fighting for his freedom of speech, but that same right also gives me the right to call him the piece of crap that he is.

ljb,
The gutless thing to do would be to ignore you, that is a path that you might take. Instead i will call you the piece of crap that you are. You call it mellow dramatics, I call it reality.

elk,
ljb personifies the type of people that i reference in another thread who i believe could cause us to lose the war on terror, he just doesn't get it, and probably never will.

JR,
If you stumble upon location info for ljb let me know, I'd like to look him up when I get home :)

[ElKabong]

P.S to ljb,

The radical left was not proven "right" in the Vietnam war. You're showing an incredible amount of ignorance in that statement. Go read the last letter by a Vietnam war POW in the thread "similarities of Vietnam and present day war/ politics". I doubt you'll absorb it, but give it a try anyway.

[GameTheory]

Getting back to the original article, why is it that there are only a handful of people -- and by people I mean commentators who write such articles (or who go on TV or radio, etc) that display any degree of intellectual honesty? This applies to both sides -- there are so very very few people actually committed to the TRUTH that it is truly amazing. (I can only think of Dennis Prager off the top of my head -- you may not agree with him, but his integrity and honesty in dealing with issues is absolutely bullet-proof.)

For instance, when you start saying stuff like "tax cuts for the rich" you know you are being deceptive, don't you? DON'T YOU? (And why don't you care?) That is just one small simple example of hundreds that we see thrown around every day by both sides. Now I realize this particular snippet from Keillor is just preaching to the liberal choir (apparently with the title "Homegrown Democrat"), but doesn't ANYONE have enough integrity to just speak the truth the way it is rather than just presenting one-side of an argument (and often lying about even that) as if that were the whole argument? To listen to most political and societal commentators, you would think that every issue is a slam-dunk (for whatever side they happen to be on) and there isn't even anything worth debating.

Back to the Keillor article again -- he basically paints all Republicans as greedy, selfish sub-humans as if it were all too obvious (which if it were he wouldn't need to try so hard to convince the reader). How can anyone take that seriously?

[so.cal.fan]

Jeff,
According to the profile of this man, he is 64 years old.
I am a few years younger, and most of you are many years younger......
I pray I do not ever become this angry and bitter.
Pay it no mind, dearheart.....the vast majority of the people in our country are proud and grateful to you.

ljb:
I'm very sorry you are so ANGRY......you need to get some help.

[ljb]

I had pointed out to many here that the republican party had been taken over by the neo-cons. Keillor is listing the characteristics of those republicans. Not all republicans fall under those characteristics. But the party is now controlled by those type individuals.
My anger stems from seeing so many on this board being duped into believing Rove's progaganda machine. You are all being led down a primrose path.
My comparison of Viet Nam with Iraq is they were/are both a wasted use of resources both monetary and human lives, which have proven to be a mistake.

[chickenhead]

GT -- Don't know Prager, will have to look him up, I like Thomas Friedman, I think he at least attempts to be honest.

[GameTheory]

http://www.dennisprager.com

He has a daily radio show (which you can listen to on the internet, BTW) and you can peruse his articles linked from his website (mostly at townhall.com). At first he might sound like a typical blowhard, but read a bunch of his articles and you'll see that is a reasoned thinker...

[JustRalph]

LBJ is a whack job

Dennis Prager is a hell of a guy and a great radio show he does

Garrison Keilor is famous for writing this crap.........and the prairie home companion......

Lsbets is a patriot and taking up the fight for all of us. Including the Whack jobs................from around Dearborn.............

[so.cal.fan]

"from around Dearborn"???????
Isn't that where most of the Muslim population is?
Ralph?

[Lefty]

Keillor was on O'Reilly a couple weeks ago and O'Reilly ripped him to shreds with calm and analytical reason. Keillor had no defense. He's just another hate spewing liberal.

[lsbets]

Someone who is great to listen to, and takes an honest look at the issues is Mark Davis in Dallas. He is on 820 WBAP. I think you can hear him on the net. IMHO, he is the best that I have heard on the radio - no bombast and a lot of fun.

[doophus]

Originally posted by so.cal.fan
"from around Dearborn"???????
Isn't that where most of the Muslim population is?
Ralph? POS ljb probably isn't a Muslim. He didn't vote for BUSH in 2000.

[ElKabong]

JR,

Dearborn, LOL !! Hey if you can be more specific, that PM function is always open on this end.

Lsbets,

I know it's a late night show, but Charley Jones is good also. He's heard all over the southwest on several stations. The show is called Texas Overnight. He's one of the few that will take calls and not cut them off or belittle his callers or guests. Traits that are missing among the nat'l shows' hosts.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by lsbets
Sec,

Here is where he states who he thinks composes the Republican Party today:


"The party of Lincoln and Liberty was transmogrified into the party of hairy-backed swamp developers and corporate shills, faith-based economists, fundamentalist bullies with Bibles, Christians of convenience, freelance racists, misanthropic frat boys, shrieking midgets of AM radio, tax cheats, nihilists in golf pants, brownshirts in pinstripes, sweatshop tycoons, hacks, fakirs, aggressive dorks, Lamborghini libertarians, people who believe Neil Armstrong's moonwalk was filmed in Roswell, New Mexico, little honkers out to diminish the rest of us, Newt's evil spawn and their Etch-A-Sketch president, a dull and rigid man suspicious of the free flow of information and of secular institutions, whose philosophy is a jumble of badly sutured body parts trying to walk. Republicans: The No. 1 reason the rest of the world thinks we're deaf, dumb and dangerous"

Note the words racist and brownshirt. Brownshirt refers to Nazis.

IThanks, my eyes are failing me. I missed the racist refernece and I didn't know brownshirts meant Nazis. I agree with you, too much rant and hyperbole from Keilor. It almost sounds a little like Rush commenting on the left.

[GameTheory]

Careful now, I was born in Dearborn...

[ljb]

I just love it when you rightys get all upset and start your name calling and such. Just waiting for one of you to tell me to go (Cheney expletive deleted) myself...Truth sure does seem to rile you fellows up.:D :D :D

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't let LJB push your buttons. He's Derek2u with half a brain.

When you think of it in that sense, the reality of the situation is clear.

[Tom]

Originally posted by lsbets
Ljb,

Glad to see that you are still the fine human being that you always were.

Pa, can we reopen that poll on this POS?


I vote OUT!
Ljb, what do you hope to accomplish by your constant insulting posts? Does it really make up for your small penis? Just curious.
I guess you have an excuse....no matter how much you post and whine and cry, nobody cares what you think.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Tom
no matter how much you post and whine and cry, nobody cares what you think.

I do.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I do.

You guys ever heard of email.......? you are already on the Dem list from Your Daddy Terry M. I am sure he wouldn't mind you two using your connections to email each other.

Better than that, you guys can download Instant messenger and sit around with your pants off and do google searches in a weird kind of Liberal mutual flagellation of each other into the odd hours of the morning..............

[Secretariat]

Sorry JR...was just pointing out that techincally Tom was wrong when he said nobody cared what LJB posted...

[ljb]

From Tom
"I vote OUT!
Ljb, what do you hope to accomplish by your constant insulting posts? Does it really make up for your small penis? Just curious. I guess you have an excuse....no matter how much you post and whine and cry, nobody cares what you think. "

Tom ,
Please define "insulting posts" and "small penis".
And it appears to me that many care what I think based on the vicious replies I get. But thanks for thinking about me anyway. With your continued support I shall forge on. :D

[ljb]

Jr,
I remember long time ago when I first posted on this board. Many of the rightys got upset because I was upsetting their private little circle jerk. Are you having those same feelings?

[Lefty]

lbj, blve me your posts aren't informative enough or cogent enough to upset anything.

[ljb]

From Lefty
"lbj, blve me your posts aren't informative enough or cogent enough to upset anything. "
Ok Lefty, and the vote to ban me is just a silly right wing game.
The rightys on this board are trying to do the same thing the gang of four is trying. Namely, silence all dissenters.

[Lefty]

lbj, for the record, i voted to keep you.

[ljb]

Lefty,
For the record I voted to ban me. Go figure!

[Lefty]

lbj, isn't that what the left does all the time? Didn't Kerry threaten to sue tv stations that carried the "swiftboat" ads? Kerry and the dnc has been calling Bush names and denigrating him for over a yr. But when the criticism is about him he whines, "unfair"

[Lefty]

lbj, you finally got a laugh from me with that last crack.

[ljb]

Lefty,
I honestly do not know if Kerry threatened to sue tv stations for showing the swift boat ads. Mind you I am not saying he didn't do it, I just do not know. As far as I am concerned both sides have used negative ads and will continue to do so. This is politics and politics is down and dirty no holds barred. My personal opinion is that Karl Rove is the most ruthless bastard ever to run a campaign but of course I am biased. While i am on the subject i may as well share my disgust with Senator McCain. Here it was only 4 short years ago when the Rove bunch were slandering McCain and his family, now McCain is allowing Bush to slobber all over him. My guess is McCain has been promised Rove's backing in 08 .

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
Lefty,
I honestly do not know if Kerry threatened to sue tv stations for showing the swift boat ads.

Then get educated, ljb. Here's the letter your cowardly POS candidate's henchmen sent to tv stations....scroll down a bit to see what you're candidate does to business that try to pay their bills when it doesn't suit the DNC's interests.

http://humaneventsonline.com.edgesuite.net/unfit_pdf.html

[ElKabong]

since I'm unable to paste from the doc, paragraph #8 states "your station is responsible for the false and libelous charges made by this sponsor". The letter is signed by lawyers for Kerry/ Edwards and the DNC as their letter clearly designates.

The charges are neither false nor libelous. If they were, Kerry would sue O'Neill as O'Neill has openly dared Kerry to do.

Kerry tried strongarm tactics. Didn't work, so he cowered down like the loser he is.

[ljb]

Elk,
Hate to burst your bubble but you are wrong in your thoughts about the swift boat ads. The ad is not running anymore. Seems the lawsuit had some merit.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
Elk,
Hate to burst your bubble but you are wrong in your thoughts about the swift boat ads. The ad is not running anymore. Seems the lawsuit had some merit.

Wrong again, ljb. The 3rd swiftvetsfortruth ad is coming out very soon, you can view it at the swift site tomorrow. Should hit the air next week.

Also, stolenhonor.com has their ads run today for the press, it will hit the air within a few days. These are ads made by POWs detailing their experiences after Kerry's 1971 treasonous speech.

I dare Kerry to sue former POWs, lol..

O'Neill dared Kerry to sue him...Kerry blinked b/c he knows O'Neill holds the cards....UNFIT for COMMAND.

[ljb]

Elk,
I was referring to the first batch of lies they put out.

[ElKabong]

Well lookie here, ljb...Here's a new swift ad that came out recently. Why dontcha download it and enjoy! Haven't seen this one hit the air yet, if it has it's been in the past week or so.

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/index.php?topic=Ads

p.s...my favorite is still Steve Gardner's ad! Gardner served under Kerry's command longer than any other crewman and calls Kerry a coward, a liar and an indecisive leader in interviews. Be sure to watch his ad too, hehehe.

[ljb]

Here's another ad. This ones from a Texan also.
http://www.moveonpac.org/10weeks/#

[ljb]

Elk,
I am not sure if you are a Viet Nam vet or not. But you sound like one. If so I wonder how you can condemn a man who served in Viet Nam and accept one who used his political connections to avoid serving and then even went AWOL from the National Guard. splain that to me will ya?

[sq764]

What's funny is that all you Dems are STILL stuck on the armed forces records.. You just don't get it do you.. You ran your whole campaign around your great war records, then you had to realize that no one gives a shit.. (See no bounce)..

Let it go....While you are patting yourself on the back for your flesh wounds, Bush is gaining even more momentum and starting to turn it into a rout...

[cj]

Even if what you say is true ljb, which it isn't, Kerry did more harm upon his return after he shot himself in the ass than he ever did good while in Viet Nam.

[ljb]

cj,
You are sounding rather full of it today. Did you ever get the body count on dead Iraqui children? Went up a bit in the last 24 hours you know.

[cj]

Not to the thousands it didn't, as you try to claim.

[sq764]

ljb, did you catch the dead children bodycount in Russia, due to terrorists?

If Kerry ever got into office, you would likely see that in the US.. Be thankful that you are safe with Bush

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by sq764
ljb, did you catch the dead children bodycount in Russia, due to terrorists?

If Kerry ever got into office, you would likely see that in the US.. Be thankful that you are safe with Bush

Have you been channeling Cheney? Did I miss something or wasn't Bush president when the last attack occured?

[sq764]

Um, are you in some fantasy land thinking that the 9/11 attack was constructed in less than 2 years? That was in planning when Clinton was in office..

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
Elk,
I am not sure if you are a Viet Nam vet or not. But you sound like one. If so I wonder how you can condemn a man who served in Viet Nam and accept one who used his political connections to avoid serving and then even went AWOL from the National Guard. splain that to me will ya?


I condemn Kerry because his 1971 speech accelerated and worsened POW beatings. Listening to Galani and others tell the story of prison guards reading the Kerry 1971 treasonous speech to prisoners before beating them runs my blood cold. It should do the same for any American. The guards would yell at the prisoners and tell them their beatings were now justified because of Kerry's speech and confessions.

Kerry was self serving then as he is today. How many POWs became MIAs after Kerry's speech, ljb?....I don't know how many either, but it's clear there were.

Kerry cares of nothing but himself. He left Vietnam as fast as possible and fabricated stories to get 2 of his PH's to leave. He lied on his AAR's. He lied of xmas in Cambodia. He lied in his book. He lied on the Senate floor. He lies to this very day.

I remember the day Kerry ran out his lies to Fullbright's senate committee in 1971 and I recall my dad's and brother's responses. My dad earned a PH (shot 3 times, was given 6 weeks to live) in Saipan in WW2. To this day I haven't seen him that pissed.

Kerry's unfit to be Commander in Chief. He admitted to committing atrocities in Vietnam. He's unfit to be a prison guard in Iraq let alone President..

No I didn't serve in Vietnam. I enlisted in the USAF in 1975 and served with many Vietnam vets who served there honorably, unlike Kerry, and wouldn't put their fellow airmen or soldiers in a spot Kerry did in 1971....Neither would I. I can't imagine anyone giving the speech Kerry did while POWs were being beaten regularly. What a pathetic thing to do....step over your fellow soldiers for personal gain and exposure.

Sq has the proper response on GWB's records.. He has an Honorable Discharge, if you go AWOL you can kiss an Honorable Discharge good bye. One would think dems are smart enough to figure that out, but not so. You dems just keep on ragging because it's bogging you down. I'm glad Kerry's not sharp enuff to figure it out.

[Lefty]

Bush has proven himself as Commander In Chief, that makes his National Guard service Irrelevant.

[Tom]

Originally posted by sq764
Um, are you in some fantasy land thinking that the 9/11 attack was constructed in less than 2 years? That was in planning when Clinton was in office..

And it would not have occurred had Clinton done his job and took out OSB one of the times he had him in the crosshairs.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
cj,
You are sounding rather full of it today. Did you ever get the body count on dead Iraqui children? Went up a bit in the last 24 hours you know.

The continuing boby count on both sides in Iraq is the result of terrosits not the US military. I you cannot see that, then you have earned your POS title. The majority of Iraqis are thankful for what we did to take out SH.

[Tom]

Originally posted by ljb
Elk,
I was referring to the first batch of lies they put out.

Lies? Why is that you libs choose to believe one small group of SBV and call the larger group liars?
Curious as to how it is so easy for you guys to just totally ignore people who were there. Like Kerry's commander.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by sq764
Um, are you in some fantasy land thinking that the 9/11 attack was constructed in less than 2 years? That was in planning when Clinton was in office..

Then can I assume you blame the first President Bush for the world trade center attack in 1993? By the way, there were no more terrorist attacks on American soil after that till 2001. So I guess George the 2nd has to get all the way through his second term to prove that he's as good a Commander-in-Chief as Clinton at keeping terrorists out of the country.

[Tom]

Originally posted by betchatoo
Then can I assume you blame the first President Bush for the world trade center attack in 1993? By the way, there were no more terrorist attacks on American soil after that till 2001. So I guess George the 2nd has to get all the way through his second term to prove that he's as good a Commander-in-Chief as Clinton at keeping terrorists out of the country.
But don't forget the USS Cole, Blackhawk Down, the embassy's, all direct attacks on America. The attack on the Cole was an act of war and whould have resulted in complete and total war on Islam.
And you cannot blame Bush I for anything-don't forget he liberated Kuwat, ran a near perfect war, and his only misteake was stopping when he did because he listened to the UN.
The Al Qeada threat was not anywhere near as serious a thing
in 1993 as it is today, or was in 2001.
Clinton did not pursue his attacks on terorism becaseu he got flack that he was trying to knock out the Lewinski headlines. So his male itch was more improtant to him than national security.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by ljb
Jr,
I remember long time ago when I first posted on this board. Many of the rightys got upset because I was upsetting their private little circle jerk. Are you having those same feelings?

You're fantasizing again. There was no private circle jerk going on. YOU started the jerking. You were looking for the response and you got it.

What do you think, there were gobs of posts ALL supporting whatever Republican happened to be on the menu that week?

You know and I know that CONTROVERSY and DIFFERENCE OF OPINION is what FUELS message boards and creates lots and lots of posts.

If indeed there was some circle jerk going on, where everyone was in agreement, it would have been deader than a doornail around here, and you wouldn't have even bothered posting.

So give the fantasy a rest.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by Tom
But don't forget the USS Cole, Blackhawk Down, the embassy's, all direct attacks on America. The attack on the Cole was an act of war and whould have resulted in complete and total war on Islam.
And you cannot blame Bush I for anything-don't forget he liberated Kuwat, ran a near perfect war, and his only misteake was stopping when he did because he listened to the UN.
The Al Qeada threat was not anywhere near as serious a thing
in 1993 as it is today, or was in 2001.
Clinton did not pursue his attacks on terorism becaseu he got flack that he was trying to knock out the Lewinski headlines. So his male itch was more improtant to him than national security.

Actually, Bush stopped when he did on the advice of his advisors, including Cheney and Rumsfield, who told him that if he toppled Sadam he'd be in the middle of a quagmire that would be almost impossible to get out of. It's too bad they didn't listen to their own advice the second time around

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by betchatoo
Actually, Bush stopped when he did on the advice of his advisors, including Cheney and Rumsfield, who told him that if he toppled Sadam he'd be in the middle of a quagmire that would be almost impossible to get out of. It's too bad they didn't listen to their own advice the second time around

This makes no sense. There must be another part to this story. The truth is out there....

[ljb]

From Elk,
" Sq has the proper response on GWB's records.. He has an Honorable Discharge, if you go AWOL you can kiss an Honorable Discharge good bye.
If you believe that, I have some wmds in Iraq you may be interested in buying. How did Bush jump to the top of the list to get in the guard in the first place?
Connections in high places changes all the rules.

[boxcar]

JustMissed wrote:

It's not about Republican v. Democrat

It's about Good v. Evil

JM

You're on the money! However, the problem is that there is very little good in politics and way too many evil politicians of all stripes and persuasions.

To paraphrase what a thoughtful person penned about the democratic form of government, thereby succinctly highlighting the horrible moral dilemma with which we're faced:

Democracy is composed of many jackasses electing some jackals.

(Jackasses and Jackals -- a volatile mixture if there ever was one.)

Boxcar

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
From Elk,
" Sq has the proper response on GWB's records.. He has an Honorable Discharge, if you go AWOL you can kiss an Honorable Discharge good bye.
If you believe that, I have some wmds in Iraq you may be interested in buying. How did Bush jump to the top of the list to get in the guard in the first place?
Connections in high places changes all the rules.


Well, ljb, you owe me some wmd's. Staudt said in an interview Friday that he didn't bump GWB to get in.

I knew only one person that got in the NG during the late 60s. Grew up on my block, his family was neither wealthy nor connected. If you qualified to be a pilot (a degree, the physical qualifications, etc) you actualy had a good shot at getting in the ANG, filling a pilot slot. If you couldn't fly, it was tough to get in.

[highnote]

Originally posted by Tom
But don't forget the USS Cole, Blackhawk Down....
And you cannot blame Bush I for anything.....
Clinton did not pursue his attacks on terorism ....

Tom,
I found this article on the internet. Fascinating. What are your thoughts (or anyone elses)?

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/iraq/956-tni.htm

Interestly, the article claims Iraqi intelligence was thinking about planning an operation against America.

Bush I and II and Clinton all knew terrorists were trying to knock down the towers. I don't think you can say it was the fault of any of the presidents. We were caught flat footed.

Hell, even I knew that they were trying to knock them down after that second bombing took place. Could I have stopped an attack by jetliner? Probably not. Could anyone have?

On a different point... I don't think it matters who gets elected president. This a great, strong country. We'll survive no matter who wins. The founding fathers' put enough checks and balances in place that we are usually not lead too far left or right.

When Nixon resigned I remember Tip O'Neill said something to the effect of: "You can tell the U.S. is a great country because during the transfer of power there were no tanks in the street."

This country has some great challenges ahead. I'm glad PA has this board available to horseplayers. Otherwise, I might not get any political analysis to think about and to form my own opinions on.

We have to be aware that there are people in this country and in other countries who are enemies of the United States. (I don't necessarily think they are left wing liberals :) ) In fact, I think the left wing liberals want what is best for this country as much as the right wingers do. Each side just has different ideas on how to get there.

My concern is that there are a lot of angry disinfranchised people of Islamic faith here in the U.S. and abroad who are looking for somewhere to vent their anger and alleviate their dispair. They have chosen the U.S. as their target. We need to be vigilant.

Ironic, that because the Vietnam War made waging war unpopular, the U.S. fought her battles of communism containment by proxy, (we backed Bin Laden in Afganistan, Contras in Central America, Hussein in Iraq); and now Iraq, which was one of the last Stalinist regimes has become the battleground. In a way the fall of Hussein was the end of communism. But it seems to have sort of morphed into a battle of radical Islam against Christianity. Maybe it's more accurate to say a battle of fundamental Islam against fundamental Christianity? George the Evangelical seems more like a fundamentalist Christian, than his more liberal Catholic counterpart. I think the Catholics got the whole "Crusader" thing out of their systems in the middle ages. Maybe the neo-Lutherans are just hitting their stride?

Little of what I say is my hardcore belief. I'm sort of thinking out loud -- trying to understand the situation our country finds herself in today.

When Bob Dylan wrote, "The times they are a changing" in the early 60's he was writing about the events that were forming on the horizon. I think a lot of people saw coming the changes of the 60's, but Dylan, the poet, saw it through the eyes of an artist.

I'm not an artist of the calibre of Dylan, but I do think we're in for some big changes as we confront the Jihad that has been declared on America. I hope that the Jihad fervor dies away, but I'm not counting on. I am concerned that this war could escalate to the level of a world war unless we take the right steps to put an end to it. I don't know if a hawkish or dovish approach is the correct one. But we better find the right one or it's only going to get worse before it gets better. We would all be well advised to prepare ourselves mentally for an escalation or at the very least continued acts of terrorism against us.

I guess that about exhausts the thoughts I've gotten from reading this thread.

Regards,
John

[boxcar]

ljb wrote:

Lefty, For the record I voted to ban me. Go figure!

What's to "figure", Tweety? You're a liberal of the Floridian ilk who couldn't figure out the ballot correctly, and left a chad hangin'.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Originally posted by boxcar
ljb wrote:

Lefty, For the record I voted to ban me. Go figure!

What's to "figure", Tweety? You're a liberal of the Floridian ilk who couldn't figure out the ballot correctly, and left a chad hangin'.

Boxcar


That was a PERFECT reply, Boxman. :D