when to call Gambler's Anonymous for help

[fishorsechess]

This is for the unfortunate folks who have a gambling
addiction and don't know it. I've been to only 1
GA meeting in my life long ago. When I told the
group I only wanted to "control" my gambling and
not stop it, they almost threw me out in the
wet rain. Really though, when is the time for
any gambler/horseplayer to know they have
a problem? I think its when you compulsively
can't stop gambling and losing. My heart goes
out to those unfortunate souls.

[NoDayJob]

:D Sooner than later, that's fo' sure! :D

NDJ

[Skanoochies]

I heard if you feel the urge to gamble coming on, you call G.A. and they send a member over with a bottle and you get drunk together. :D :D :D

[Dave Schwartz]

This is (potentially) a huge topic but I will take a shot a a short answer.


Gambling is not automatically a problem. It is the losing that is the problem. (Of course, the GA folks would disagree with you, but that is because there is not a winning player in the room.)

So, the question is "When is gambling a problem?"


Gambling (or golf, television, the stock market; you fill in the blank) when it interferes with life.

"Interferes with life" also includes the lives of those around you that are within your sphere of responsibility to lead or support.


Just my opinion. I await your comments.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Bruddah]

decided he had a gambling problem. He found the GA number and gave them a call. After describing his gambling binges and all of it's problems, a voice on the other end, said Sir, I make it 100 to 1 you will ever be able to quit gambling. ;) :confused: ;)

[JustMissed]

It all goes back to winning.

Nothing but losers at GA.

I can't remember who has this on all their post but it goes something like this:

"No wife can tolerate a gambling husband, unless he's winning."

I really like that.

JM

[chickenhead]

GA members should write a book..."What doesn't work". Probably save us all some time and money.

[Tom]

I should look for GA meetings and bring a deck of cards with me.:D

[betchatoo]

Hell, if I could follow 12 steps I'd be a better gambler

[Tom]

Originally posted by betchatoo
Hell, if I could follow 12 steps I'd be a better gambler


LOL!

[stuball]

Gambling is not wrong ----Losing is wrong
So lose less and win more
all of a sudden it is not gambling
it is investing.....

Stock market was investing till people
started losing money...then it was gambling...

that's my take on gambling---
do your homework....hard work...

Stuball

[sq764]

Dave, couldn't you still be very successful, winning, AND it still interferes with your life?

I would imagine that, for the most part, the problematic gamblers are ones that lose money they need for bills, food, rent, etc.. But, I would also imagine that some people have a problem because of the time they spend gambling.. Time that should be spent with wives, children, families...

Just my 2 cents..

[GameTheory]

Originally posted by sq764
Dave, couldn't you still be very successful, winning, AND it still interferes with your life?

I would imagine that, for the most part, the problematic gamblers are ones that lose money they need for bills, food, rent, etc.. But, I would also imagine that some people have a problem because of the time they spend gambling.. Time that should be spent with wives, children, families...

Just my 2 cents..

That's not a gambling problem, that's a "workaholic" problem. Successful gamblers by definition do not have a gambling problem because people that have gambling problems do it complusively and can't control themselves (they crave the action). You can't be successful (consistently) without being in control -- "gambling problem" is really short for "compulsive gambling problem".

[sq764]

I disagree with you there.. And here is why..

I play poker online and not for a lot, but enough to a) make a nice little profit on the side and b) get my 'fix'..

I could play for an hour and be happy, but in reality, I like playing for 3-4 hours a night.. I can bring $20 to a table, get to $40, cash out then bring $20 back in.. With patient play, you can make a nice little profit..

Problem is, I have a 6 month pregant wife who hates poker and horses.. So... I cannot play 3-4 hours per night. Some nights when she falls asleep at 8 pm, I certainly can, but most nights not.

If I was single and was able to play 3-4 hours a night, and make a nice profit doing so, does that mean I have a gambling problem??

[GameTheory]

I would not say you had a gambling problem in any of those scenarios. You are not a problem gambler. If you played 12 hours a day and made a profit (or even if you didn't, but were in control of yourself), I still wouldn't say you had a gambling problem.

The problem in that case would be one of priorities, i.e. spending all your time doing one thing to the exclusion of everything else that might need attention. But you could have that problem with anything -- it is not a problem specific to gambling, gambling just happens to be the activity that is filling up too much of your time. To me a gambling problem is specifically about gambling -- craving action, losing the rent money, etc. Just spending a lot of time on gambling is not a gambling problem, although it could still be a problem in general.

[sq764]

I think the point of all of this is that you can have someone that loses $5000 a year that has a wicked gambling problem. You could also have someone that loses $20,000 a year that does not have a gambling problem..

If someone who makes $30K a year loses $300 per week on gambling, chances are, they have a problem.. If someone who makes $200K a year loses $400 a week on gambling, this may simply be disposable income that they have budgeted for ‘entertainment’..

I think Michael Jordan had a wicked gambling problem, but since he was a multi-millionaire, losing $200K in a night was nothing and wasn’t viewed as compulsive gambling..

[Dave Schwartz]

SQ,

I said: >>"Gambling (or golf, television, the stock market; you fill in the blank) when it interferes with life.

"Interferes with life" also includes the lives of those around you that are within your sphere of responsibility to lead or support."<<


No place in the above statement do I reference winning or losing.

And perhaps I should have said "excessively" interferes. After all, we are all entitled to an individual "passion;" something that excites us enough to add to the joy of life.

Of course, if our passion takes over our life, then we may well have a problem.

I actually know a serious player who was making over $250k per year at the races and his then-girlfriend (now-wife) said that she would leave him if he could not find more time for her. (Understand that he was also making that much from his career, so money was not an issue in their lives.)


Losing money becomes a problem if it is more than significant relative to your income, lifestyle, etc.

After all, hobbies do not have to be profitable. <G>

Golfers pay greens fees and purchase clubs, lessons, etc. As long as they are not spending money that they do not have, or playing 5 rounds per week rather than earning a living, there is probably no "problem."

The real problem is when the family is carrying part of the payment for our hobbies. If we have money problems then we should not be spending money at the races.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[sq764]

Dave, I think we agree on this..

I was just referincing when you said :


"Gambling is not automatically a problem. It is the losing that is the problem. (Of course, the GA folks would disagree with you, but that is because there is not a winning player in the room.)


I think the amount of time you spend on doing it can be more harmful than the losing aspect of it..

[Valuist]

I would say betting 55-60 races a day, betting on harness and quarters as well as flats would put one in the ballpark......but that might strike a little too close to home for one member on this board:D

[BetHorses!]

I cannot understand how some people don't gamble at all.
Does that mean i am nuts?

I went to a GA meeting once and some guy stood up and said that if anyone here should drop dead now he would be the first one to take your wallet

[InsideThePylons-MW]

Originally posted by Valuist
I would say betting 55-60 races a day, betting on harness and quarters as well as flats would put one in the ballpark......but that might strike a little too close to home for one member on this board:D

Good one!

It's a trade-off which is coming to an end.

[Blackgold]

One of the most profound statements on the entire collection of Handicapping Magic tapes was made by Pizzolla's late partner, Eric, when discussing the emotional aspects of being in the wagering business.

He said, "what ever issues you have in life, this game will find it."

Personally, when I've kept records in excess of normal, by that I mean I was looking at some particular aspect of the game such as layoff runners, etc. . . . anyway, what pops out the most is not anything having to do with racing- but something having to do with me.

Why would my productivity be up for one month and down the next. What was going on in my life when I had a monster month and what was going on different in my life when I had a down month.

Here is another example. The most money I've ever lost in the shortest period of time was right after I'd won the most money in the shortest period of time. Was it good luck followed by bad luck or was it hard work followed by recklessness.

I guess what I'm trying to say is- the better I become at managing me. . . the better horseplayer I become. . . and the better life in general becomes.

One of the knocks I have with gambler's annon or acholol anon or sex anon, etc., etc.- they all focus on abstinesce as the answer. I think the only answer is to get in touch with what drives the compulsion to do anytying destructive to you body or bankroll or mind.

I know someone who quit drinking and is in AA. Yet this same somone relies on some herbal health food type booster when the feeling to get boosted comes on. So didi AA help this person to get in touch with the driver of the compulsion, or the person simply replaced the compulsion.

Don't be upset that this game finds your personal issues. I'm gald I've found a few of my own and by dealing directly with them, I a better player and person.

But you must remember, it is an ever evolving, ever changing process.

We are all and we always will be sinners. . . . and each and everyone of us has what it takes, inside, to be winners.

[shanta]

Originally posted by Blackgold
One of the most profound statements on the entire collection of Handicapping Magic tapes was made by Pizzolla's late partner, Eric, when discussing the emotional aspects of being in the wagering business.

He said, "what ever issues you have in life, this game will find it."

Personally, when I've kept records in excess of normal, by that I mean I was looking at some particular aspect of the game such as layoff runners, etc. . . . anyway, what pops out the most is not anything having to do with racing- but something having to do with me.

Why would my productivity be up for one month and down the next. What was going on in my life when I had a monster month and what was going on different in my life when I had a down month.

Here is another example. The most money I've ever lost in the shortest period of time was right after I'd won the most money in the shortest period of time. Was it good luck followed by bad luck or was it hard work followed by recklessness.

I guess what I'm trying to say is- the better I become at managing me. . . the better horseplayer I become. . . and the better life in general becomes.

One of the knocks I have with gambler's annon or acholol anon or sex anon, etc., etc.- they all focus on abstinesce as the answer. I think the only answer is to get in touch with what drives the compulsion to do anytying destructive to you body or bankroll or mind.

I know someone who quit drinking and is in AA. Yet this same somone relies on some herbal health food type booster when the feeling to get boosted comes on. So didi AA help this person to get in touch with the driver of the compulsion, or the person simply replaced the compulsion.

Don't be upset that this game finds your personal issues. I'm gald I've found a few of my own and by dealing directly with them, I a better player and person.

But you must remember, it is an ever evolving, ever changing process.

We are all and we always will be sinners. . . . and each and everyone of us has what it takes, inside, to be winners.


Blackgold,

One of the 5 best posts that I have read on this site! Thank you for taking the time to write.
Richie Pizzicara

[JackS]

A quote from Joe Tkach(sp) " Everyone should make at least one bet a day. If you don't, You might be lucky and never know it"

[Dave Schwartz]

JackS,

Actually that quote is very old. Might be Pittsburgh Phil, but certainly someone of that era.

I believe it was more like, "You should make a bet every day. Otherwise, you might be walking around lucky and never no it."


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Fastracehorse]

That's not a gambling problem, that's a "workaholic" problem. Successful gamblers by definition do not have a gambling problem because people that have gambling problems do it complusively and can't control themselves (they crave the action). You can't be successful (consistently) without being in control -- "gambling problem" is really short for "compulsive gambling problem".

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Is it not possible that one could rationalize their gambling by working hard??

Hence, by working hard you justify your gambleing. It is a vicious cycle.

The addictive mind is known as: 'Baffleing, cunning, and, powerful.'

fffastt

BTW,

I am sure that most of us are horse players because of the allure of gambleing - then over time we become somewhat more sophisticated - at least that is my plan.

[Fastracehorse]

The following is a beautiful quote:

He said, "what ever issues you have in life, this game will find it."

================================

You interpreted it as: Your success at the game depends, at least in part, on the current welfare of your life.

I might add: The quote may reveal some character flaws as well.



I would like to add to everyone on this forum that addiction is a disease. It is not something we can smooth over as something the 'guy has to get a grip on.'

Alot of these people have other issues, serious ones, from childhood ( abuse, neglect etc. ). Also, mental illness plays a role in many addicts lives.

fffastt

[Dave Schwartz]

Well, just tonight I enrolled myself in PA-Aholics Anonymous.


"Hi. I'm Dave. And I am a Pace Advantagaholic."

[Speed Figure]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
Well, just tonight I enrolled myself in PA-Aholics Anonymous.


"Hi. I'm Dave. And I am a Pace Advantagaholic." Me Too! I just can't stop checking in 10 to 12 times per day. I go crazy when I can't view the board. I need help!!;)

[JackS]

How about a little positive advantage horse players hold over the rest of the population. I've heard that racing and chess are the two best games to play to possibly avoid alzheimers desease. It seems the particular part of the brain that needs to be stimulated to possibly avoid this desease happens to be these two games. We may go broke and wind up on the street, but at least we'll know what street it is, what day it is, and how we got there.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Blackgold


He said, "what ever issues you have in life, this game will find it."


Funny. They have the same exact line in the stock trading world.

[BIG RED]

I just lost all my beer money, and now that's serious:(

[shanta]

Originally posted by Fastracehorse@DRF
The following is a beautiful quote:

He said, "what ever issues you have in life, this game will find it."

================================

You interpreted it as: Your success at the game depends, at least in part, on the current welfare of your life.

I might add: The quote may reveal some character flaws as well.



I would like to add to everyone on this forum that addiction is a disease. It is not something we can smooth over as something the 'guy has to get a grip on.'

Alot of these people have other issues, serious ones, from childhood ( abuse, neglect etc. ). Also, mental illness plays a role in many addicts lives.

fffastt



Hi FFast,
I understand the points "black" was making all too well. Going on 4 years sobriety after a 20 year battle with addiction(s) is a humbling experience to say the least.

Whatever things are happening in my life ( good and bad) always show themselves when I am at the track wagering. ALWAYS.

Good stuff here! FFast have a great day ok? Please keep posting those "BOMBERS" over in "selections"
Richie

:)