MTR race8 Aug8...Fix is in!

[Redhook206]

Has anybody here seen this race from last night? Race8, Aug.8, Mountaineer. It's incredible! Bridge jumper on 1-9, gate opens, horse goes up to 4-5. Wrangled back the whole way. Gotta see it. I wish I could post it here.

[WP1981]

Has anybody here seen this race from last night? Race8, Aug.8, Mountaineer. It's incredible! Bridge jumper on 1-9, gate opens, horse goes up to 4-5. Wrangled back the whole way. Gotta see it. I wish I could post it here.

Big buzz about this on the twitters. Equal buzz about Saratoga running a race yesterday at the wrong distance.

[Elkchester Road]

Has anybody here seen this race from last night? Race8, Aug.8, Mountaineer. It's incredible! Bridge jumper on 1-9, gate opens, horse goes up to 4-5. Wrangled back the whole way. Gotta see it. I wish I could post it here.

Saw this race last night. Weird from start to finish. Question is...how does word get to the jockey to rip the horse's face off??? in a sick way...fascinating.

[Peter Berry]

Rider’s explanation @peterberry57.

[cj]

https://youtu.be/1cbf7JlKtDU

[Fox]

Probably should have put "was" instead of "is"

[jimmyb]

Lots of questionables. Oliveros is too good a rider to lose control like that... the shift in odds ... Time to give Mountaineer a wide berth.

[kevb]

i hope the jock made enough off of this race to retire, because he deserves a lifetime ban.

[AltonKelsey]

If they gave him all the money in all the pools, he couldn't retire from it.

[kevb]

If they gave him all the money in all the pools, he couldn't retire from it.
Right. He's not too smart. He jeopardized his livelihood for peanuts.

[Tom]

That looked a lot like the ride the harness driver gave in a Rodney Dangerfield movie!

[PaceAdvantage]

https://youtu.be/1cbf7JlKtDUThis video wasn't good enough quality to see much of anything concerning the rider's actions. I couldn't make out any severe actions by the jockey early on. He was pushing on the horse right after the break, watch Oliveros' hands, he didn't break with a hammerlock on...there was no response from the horse...just went backwards.

I'm not going to be so quick to jump all over the jock. Strange things happen in this game...they are four-legged animals these guys are riding - at MNR no less.

People need to stop throwing out severe allegations as the basis for everything these days.

[cj]

This video wasn't good enough quality to see much of anything concerning the rider's actions. I couldn't make out any severe actions by the jockey early on. He was pushing on the horse right after the break, watch Oliveros' hands, he didn't break with a hammerlock on...there was no response from the horse...just went backwards.

I'm not going to be so quick to jump all over the jock. Strange things happen in this game...they are four-legged animals these guys are riding - at MNR no less.

People need to stop throwing out severe allegations as the basis for everything these days.

There wasn't a lot to see on the head on either so I didn't post it. I agree with you. To my eye it did look like the horse was getting out. Per the rider's explanation, it would be nice to hear why this workout isn't listed.

[jimmyb]

The horse loaded uneventful and calm going into the gate. Horse was calm in the gate. Horse didn't appear rank while being shuffled back or going into the turn. Look at the :7: past performances and see the horse is normally pressing the pace. 1/9 going into the gate, 4/5 after the gates open.

Peter Berry was astonished as well. Oliveros explanation is laughable.

[cj]

This is a fix (that didn't work!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wII4p6JuaYg

Are these idiots in jail yet by the way?

[AltonKelsey]

The ride on the turn was suspect, but could well have been the horse acting badly. Impossible to know. Where is this explanation by the jock?





The odds jumping late means nothing. Happens all the time there.


I'd like to have seen the warmup .

[mountainman]

Guys, if you know Oliveros and are familiar with his rep, then you realize there is zero chance he took money to pull a horse up. You guys know me, and if I wasn't sure, I would simply dodge this thread, NOT defend the jock.

In addition, I saw it coming even as the field banked into the turn. I told Nance: "This horse isn't moving right. Watch, Nance, watch, this #@$%*& is going to pull up."

And, please, don't interpret a perhaps impending form reversal as proof of larceny. Inside word has the issue as minor and very fixable. But I WILL not vouch for that.

[metro]

Jockey on the :1: horse, the other favorite, wasn't exactly putting on a riding clinic either.

[thaskalos]

And, please, don't interpret a perhaps impending form reversal as proof of larceny. Inside word has the issue as minor and very fixable. But I WILL not vouch for that.

But isn't that a big part of the problem right there, Mountainman? In such cases...should the "inside word" remain secretive? Doesn't the track feel that the customers deserve a reasonable explanation after a race like this...or should the jockey's post-race comments be enough?

[PaceAdvantage]

I would also think, if someone wants to put one over on the public in racing, there are way more subtle ways to go about it...

[jay68802]

Jockey on the :1: horse, the other favorite, wasn't exactly putting on a riding clinic either.

If your looking for riders putting on a "riding clinic", then the Mountain is probably not where you want to be. Nothing against the jockeys there, just that there are much better at other venues. Did not see much to make me think the jockey was doing anything wrong.

[metro]

If your looking for riders putting on a "riding clinic", then the Mountain is probably not where you want to be. Nothing against the jockeys there, just that there are much better at other venues. Did not see much to make me think the jockey was doing anything wrong.

Just taking the jockey's effort, or lack thereof, into to context with the ride on the other favorite.

[AltonKelsey]

Be grateful these 'locks' run out once in a while, else the show bettors would have all the money in the world in short order.



imo , they run in more often than they should, given the incentive to bust those guys out.

[jimmyb]

Race under investigation by the West Virginia Racing Commission (WVRC)

"At the midway point on the turn, Utana began drifting too, and the head-on replay showed Oliveros remaining mostly still with his upper body as the mare fanned ever wider while still in last place."

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/no-show-fave-at-mountaineer-under-investigation/

[FlintAtTheFetlock]

https://youtu.be/1cbf7JlKtDU

Unrelated technical question. Every time I see what looks like a posted video I get a BLACK square window. I click on, under, right click, never get anything to happen. Is there something I need to be able to view video attachments? I notice QUOTE'ing this post I see a LINK that I did not see in normal reading pane. I click and still get nothing. Suggestions? THX

[cj]

Unrelated technical question. Every time I see what looks like a posted video I get a BLACK square window. I click on, under, right click, never get anything to happen. Is there something I need to be able to view video attachments? I notice QUOTE'ing this post I see a LINK that I did not see in normal reading pane. I click and still get nothing. Suggestions? THX

Have to ask PA about this one.

[mountainman]

But isn't that a big part of the problem right there, Mountainman? In such cases...should the "inside word" remain secretive? Doesn't the track feel that the customers deserve a reasonable explanation after a race like this...or should the jockey's post-race comments be enough?

Gus, this issue is not unique to mnr. No trainer ANYWHERE will publicly divulge that sort of info. It's a lose/ lose proposition for the horseman. You're an extremely sharp guy and realize the degree of transparency we may BOTH wish for is just not in the cards.

And "inside" is a very, very (and purposely, in this case) vague term on my part. Look. The trainer in this case is one of my best pals on earth...my brother is an official who overheard a well-respected state vet discussing the incident...that same brother used to hustle Oliveros book...and I have excellent pipelines to Olivero's current agent...and have thus heard details of his post-race account.

So I speak with authority here, and feel like I bent over backwards-and came dangerously close to violating a few confidences- in trying to enlighten you guys on this incident. And I know, my good and respected friend, that you are certainly not seeking a "gotcha" moment at my expense. But when I enter territory this tricky, SOMEbody usually does.

So let me simply give my OWN opinion and say that I wonder . now in the aftermath of her cruising win first time here at Mnr , if Oliveros was merely THAT confident so as to wrap up on her by the 5/16 pole..or if, just maybe, he was a bit leery of asking her to extend??? And I DID exclaim to Nance 300 yards into this controversial outing that I thought the horse was moving oddly and WOULD be pulled up.

And as far as inside dope goes...I WILL amend my original post and disclose that the horse's true condition has now become a topic of dispute among those in the know. And, I will say that Craig Cox was shocked by the pull-up. There is nothing else I can say that would be appropriate on my part.

And I have NO intention of exposing myself to the slightest job-risk. Heck, I can think of at least one (extremely sneaky and passively aggressive) Mnr employee right NOW who I guarantee is combing through this post in eager pursuit of a "gotcha" slip.

Hope all is well, Gus. It's my pleasure to return your post.

[PaceAdvantage]

Unrelated technical question. Every time I see what looks like a posted video I get a BLACK square window. I click on, under, right click, never get anything to happen. Is there something I need to be able to view video attachments? I notice QUOTE'ing this post I see a LINK that I did not see in normal reading pane. I click and still get nothing. Suggestions? THXNo idea...must be browser related...are you blocking pop-ups on PA? Are you blocking ads? That may be it...

[thaskalos]

Gus, this issue is not unique to mnr. No trainer ANYWHERE will publicly divulge that sort of info. It's a lose/ lose proposition for the horseman. You're an extremely sharp guy and realize the degree of transparency we may BOTH wish for is just not in the cards.

And "inside" is a very, very (and purposely, in this case) vague term on my part. Look. The trainer in this case is one of my best pals on earth...my brother is an official who overheard a well-respected state vet discussing the incident...that same brother used to hustle Oliveros book...and I have excellent pipelines to Olivero's current agent...and have thus heard details of his post-race account.

So I speak with authority here, and feel like I bent over backwards-and came dangerously close to violating a few confidences- in trying to enlighten you guys on this incident. And I know, my good and respected friend, that you are certainly not seeking a "gotcha" moment at my expense. But when I enter territory this tricky, SOMEbody usually does.

So let me simply give my OWN opinion and say that I wonder . now in the aftermath of her cruising win first time here at Mnr , if Oliveros was merely THAT confident so as to wrap up on her by the 5/16 pole..or if, just maybe, he was a bit leery of asking her to extend??? And I DID exclaim to Nance 300 yards into this controversial outing that I thought the horse was moving oddly and WOULD be pulled up.

And as far as inside dope goes...I WILL amend my original post and disclose that the horse's true condition has now become a topic of dispute among those in the know. And, I will say that Craig Cox was shocked by the pull-up. There is nothing else I can say that would be appropriate on my part.

And I have NO intention of exposing myself to the slightest job-risk. Heck, I can think of at least one (extremely sneaky and passively aggressive) Mnr employee right NOW who I guarantee is combing through this post in eager pursuit of a "gotcha" slip.

Hope all is well, Gus. It's my pleasure to return your post.

Mark...I sincerely hope that you know how highly I regard you as a person, and how much respect I have for your point of view. OF COURSE I'm not seeking any "gotcha" moments at your expense...and I apologize if my post even HINTED of such a thing. Nor am I suggesting that you endanger your position by divulging information that others have confided in you. I know full-well that this "secrecy" business isn't strictly a Mountaineer phenomenon; my use of the word "track" was meant in a general sense.

Here is where I stand on this matter:

I initially suspected Oliveros of wrongdoing...and it took the personal knowledge that you have conveyed to us here to change my mind. But the betting public at large has no access to your personal knowledge of this matter...and, they can't be blamed for continuing to harbor dark suspicions about that particular race. There was bridgejumping going on, the horse finished the race with good energy...and the race-call left certain doubts in the public's mind about the authenticity of the race's outcome. These three things grouped together warrant an explanation from the track, IMO...to dispel the controversy that will surely arise if this horse happens to cruise to a victory in its next start. In special cases like these, the tracks cannot proceed with their "business-as-usual" attitude. And I am talking about ALL the tracks when I say this. Time must be taken, and an effort must be made, to explain certain things to the wagering public...lest the game's "integrity problem" continue to snowball in the future. Some cases are commonplace and can be safely ignored...while other cases are of a "special" nature, and warrant an explanation. And, IMO...this particular case is of the latter variety.

My best regards go out to you...and I assure you that the pleasure is all mine whenever we interact here.

[chenoa]

Mark...I sincerely hope that you know how highly I regard you as a person, and how much respect I have for your point of view. OF COURSE I'm not seeking any "gotcha" moments at your expense...and I apologize if my post even HINTED of such a thing. Nor am I suggesting that you endanger your position by divulging information that others have confided in you. I know full-well that this "secrecy" business isn't strictly a Mountaineer phenomenon; my use of the word "track" was meant in a general sense.

Here is where I stand on this matter:

I initially suspected Oliveros of wrongdoing...and it took the personal knowledge that you have conveyed to us here to change my mind. But the betting public at large has no access to your personal knowledge of this matter...and, they can't be blamed for continuing to harbor dark suspicions about that particular race. There was bridgejumping going on, the horse finished the race with good energy...and the race-call left certain doubts in the public's mind about the authenticity of the race's outcome. These three things grouped together warrant an explanation from the track, IMO...to dispel the controversy that will surely arise if this horse happens to cruise to a victory in its next start. In special cases like these, the tracks cannot proceed with their "business-as-usual" attitude. And I am talking about ALL the tracks when I say this. Time must be taken, and an effort must be made, to explain certain things to the wagering public...lest the game's "integrity problem" continue to snowball in the future. Some cases are commonplace and can be safely ignored...while other cases are of a "special" nature, and warrant an explanation. And, IMO...this particular case is of the latter variety.

My best regards go out to you...and I assure you that the pleasure is all mine whenever we interact here.

There lays another problem, the next start. I doubt that any of the connections want to see the horse cruise home and confidently clobber a field next out. Wouldn't that add more questions and problems to the mix?

[kevb]

That horse would've finished third with a 120 lb bag of sand on her back. She broke alertly and was second shortly after the break. The jock eases her back 12 lengths last-behind where the horse with a 120 bag of sand would be running. Coming out of the turn, if, as he claims, the mare wants to get out (no evidence of that in watching any of her replays), then the 120 bag of sand gets carried to the outside rail, losing 4 or 5 lengths of ground- but still running at speed. The jock on the other hand throttles her down, and still lets the horse drift out. They both run through the stretch with interest, and the 120 lb bag of sand handily beats the jockey. Crooked, stupid or lazy. I'd say it's time to find a job you're good at, or move back to your parent's basement.

[devilsbag]

Until racing has some kind of national office to handle such issues, or local tracks step up and responsibly handle these situations, you are going to continue to erode the fan base and lose whatever credibility is left in the game. It's an unfortunate set of circumstances that this happens, but money is being wagered and the people that are pumping money into pools deserve to feel they are getting a fair shake. Other countries are much more sensitive to public perception, but we allow this to go on with minimal or no explanation. We cannot be sure what happened here, but the circumstances warrant a thorough investigation and the details made available as soon as possible. In the event wrongdoing is uncovered, clearly the time has come for jockeys to be gelded, which will go a long way to bring integrity back to the game.

[AltonKelsey]

I don't see the rider doing enough to make the horse back up so quickly after the start.


Seriously doubt it was anything but soreness.


All he had to do was EASE her at the top of the stretch and jump off, and that would have been the end of the kerfuffle.




Love these incidents, as it gives Mark a reason to post in his inimitable style :p

[outofthebox]

This is a fix (that didn't work!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wII4p6JuaYg

Are these idiots in jail yet by the way?Nothing happened to the Patin brothers. They will never hold state licenses but are working at various raining farms.

[Tom]

I would also think, if someone wants to put one over on the public in racing, there are way more subtle ways to go about it...

What if a tack just changed the distance of a race by, say, a half a furlong, to favor one horse over the favorite. Just set the gate in the wrong place and let it go - who would ever notice it in the heat of the action?

Aw, wait, the is just too far-fetched - no reputable race track would EVER allow a stupid thing like that to happen.


:rolleyes:

[jimmyb]

Utana worked 3f 35.8 B at Mountaineer today Wednesday 8-22. 1st of 16 at the distance. No mention of veering out.

[jimmyb]

The infamous bridge jumper, utana, in at Mountaineer's 8th race tonight.

[bello]

tHIS IS ACTUALLY A MUCH TOUGHER FIELD.

lAST WAS RESTRICTED WV breds.

Still opened with 1k win on her nose. Needs to beat 3 and 5. I'm Not touching Utana

[bello]

tHIS IS ACTUALLY A MUCH TOUGHER FIELD.

lAST WAS RESTRICTED WV breds.

Still opened with 1k win on her nose. Needs to beat 3 and 5. I'm Not touching Utana

3-5 exacta good for $51.00 Thanks Utana