Can someone explain? Lady T N T wins but did not get credit @SAR race 1

[TheOracle]

Hi

Can someone explain why Lady T N T in the 1st race today at Saratoga is listed in the Chart as having won by 5 1/2 lengths but did not get any credit for the win in the payouts?

Can someone explain?

[ReplayRandall]

Hi

Can someone explain why Lady T N T in the 1st race today at Saratoga is listed in the Chart as having won by 5 1/2 lengths but did not get any credit for the win in the payouts?

Can someone explain?

It's the old "part of an entry" rule at 'Toga. Once the horses are on the track for the post parade, if any part of an entry scratches, the other part of entry runs for purse money only, and is no longer included in the pari-mutuel pool.

[horses4courses]

Entries are a joke.

Designed to protect bettors, they do anything but. :ThmbDown:

[TheOracle]

It's the old "part of an entry" rule at 'Toga. Once the horses are on the track for the post parade, if any part of an entry scratches, the other part of entry runs for purse money only, and is no longer included in the pari-mutuel pool.


What???


So do the Trainer and Jockey get credit for the win???

[ReplayRandall]

What???


So do the Trainer and Jockey get credit for the win???

To my knowledge, yes they do....The pari-mutuel pools outcomes shouldn't affect the Trainer, Jockey or Owner standings.

[TheOracle]

To my knowledge, yes they do....The pari-mutuel pools outcomes shouldn't affect the Trainer, Jockey or Owner standings.

So they get credit for the win and the track provides a pay out to the horse than ran 2nd even though he didn't win?

So it's possible to get a win payout even though you don't win?

This sport is like no other on earth

[Tom]

I do believe that this is a law, or regulation of the wagering board, not NYRA.
Horse runs for purse only - but it counts for everything except payouts.

[therussmeister]

So they get credit for the win and the track provides a pay out to the horse than ran 2nd even though he didn't win?

So it's possible to get a win payout even though you don't win?

This sport is like no other on earth

No. It only affects the betting the owner of the winning horse still gets the first place money.

[castaway01]

It's to prevent betting scams where, say, the connections of a favored entry bets on all of the other logical contenders and then scratches the stronger part of their entry with 2 minutes to post, leaving his entry heavily bet with no chance of winning. Or, more likely, just to be fair to those who bet such an entry and don't want to be stuck with the "other" horse after a scratch. There is some logic to it.

[JustRalph]

Not just a Toga rule? I’ve seen it at Belmont too......

[Jeff P]

It's a New York State Gaming Commission Rule:
https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document/I4f9c7b4bcd1711dda432a117e6e0f345?viewType=FullTex t&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)

9 CRR-NY 4122.27
9 CRR-NY 4122.27

4122.27 Coupled entry scratch.

If, after wagering has begun on a race, a horse, programmed to start as part of a coupled entry or field is scratched in such race, all betting upon such coupled entry or field shall cease and all money theretofore wagered upon such coupled entry or field shall be refunded. Notwithstanding the termination of betting upon all horses that are part of such coupled entry or field, the horse or horses in such coupled entry or field that are not scratched shall start in such race as nonbetting interests for the purse and the finish of such horses in the race shall be disregarded for pari-mutuel purposes. Such circumstances shall be announced by public address and explained to the public at the time of such action and thereafter as may be necessary to adequately inform the public.

9 CRR-NY 4122.27
Current through May 20, 2018


-jp

.

[TheOracle]

It's a New York State Gaming Commission Rule:
https://govt.westlaw.com/nycrr/Document/I4f9c7b4bcd1711dda432a117e6e0f345?viewType=FullTex t&originationContext=documenttoc&transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)




-jp

.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for explaining, but to me when I see this in the ruling:

...... horses in such coupled entry or field that are not scratched shall start in such race as nonbetting interests for the purse and the finish of such horses in the race shall be disregarded for pari-mutuel purposes.....

It just complicates the matter, it would make better sense to just scratch the 2nd half of the entry.

To award win, place and show money to horses who finish 2nd, 3rd and 4th due to a nonbetting interest at the last minute that happens to win makes no sense to me.

Sometimes, I feel this sport has rules in place just to complicate situations

[Jeff P]

In no way was I defending the rule. (I was merely pointing out what the rule is in New York.)

I recall what the track signals looked like on TV back in the 1980's and 1990's.

Before they started displaying the 1 and 1A separately it was definitely misleading. Not so much these days.

Personally, I'm against any rule that calls for scratching a horse for betting purposes and letting it run for purse money only --

As a horseplayer, I see such rules as a slap in the face.

I also think such rules are financially harmful to the track's bottom line. As well as harmful to the horsemen's purse account.

When a horse is scratched for betting purposes and allowed to run for purse money only:

The track gets one less runner for that race. (Smaller field size.)

That equates to less money bet on that race. Which in turn equates to a reduction in gross profit for the track's bottom line.

The reduction in handle also equates to a reduction in money going to the horsemens's purse account for that race.

I contend that if you scratch the horse instead of allowing it to run for purse money only:

There's a good chance the trainer runs that horse right back.

In theory the track gets one extra horse in a future race. (Much sooner than if you allow that horse to run for purse money only and it needs another 6 weeks to recover.)

If the trainer runs the horse right back the track gets higher handle and the horsemen get an increase in money going to the purse account.

I contend that if you scratch the horse instead of allowing it to run for purse money only:

Both the track's bottom line and the horsemen's purse account are better off in the long run.


-jp

.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

It's to prevent betting scams where, say, the connections of a favored entry bets on all of the other logical contenders and then scratches the stronger part of their entry with 2 minutes to post, leaving his entry heavily bet with no chance of winning. Or, more likely, just to be fair to those who bet such an entry and don't want to be stuck with the "other" horse after a scratch. There is some logic to it.

I'm doing this from memory, but doesn't a trainer only have until until two hours before the races start to scratch his horse? I think the only person who can scratch a horse at two minutes is the track vet.