Justify retired

[Nutz and Boltz]

https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Triple_Crown_winner_Justify_retired_from_racing#

[cj]

https://twitter.com/DRFInsidePost/status/1022186081670885377

[PhantomOnTour]

At this point, is anyone really surprised ??

[dilanesp]

No Horse of the Year, no Hall of Fame as far as I sm concerned.

[Andy Asaro]

Everyone knows how I feel about the Trainer. He got what he needed out of the Colt and is getting paid.

[Andy Asaro]

https://twitter.com/SjRudy85/status/1022183680880590848

[Nutz and Boltz]

Everyone knows how I feel about the Trainer. He got what he needed out of the Colt and is getting paid.


Isn't that the way of the world ?:rant:

[cj]

CJ just posted it.

Merged the two threads.

[cj]

No Horse of the Year, no Hall of Fame as far as I sm concerned.

He's a lock for HOY.

[DeltaLover]

No Horse of the Year, no Hall of Fame as far as I sm concerned.

Even if voted as either, Justify will always be a questionable super-champion.

Obviously, he will never reach the status of his stable mate AP who went out in glory beating older horses in the top race of the country.

Of course retiring top tier 3y olds in nothing new and has been going on since the days of MoW (we also did not see a 4yo Secretariat either) albeit Justify did not have the chance to justify (!) his greatness and should be viewed as a precocious freak whose mission was limited to the TC and no more.

[dilanesp]

He's a lock for HOY.

I know he is. And that basically shows you a heck of a lot about what is wrong with the sport.

[dilanesp]

Even if voted as either, Justify will always be a questionable super-champion.

Obviously, he will never reach the status of his stable mate AP who went out in glory beating older horses in the top race of the country.

Of course retiring top tier 3y olds in nothing new and has been going on since the days of MoW (we also did not see a 4yo Secretariat either) albeit Justify did not have the chance to justify (!) his greatness and should be viewed as a precocious freak whose mission was limited to the TC and no more.

Both MoW and Secretariat beat some of the best older horses running.

[DeltaLover]

Both MoW and Secretariat beat some of the best older horses running.

Exactly. The same does not apply to Justify, this is part of the point I am trying to make.

[JustRalph]

No Horse of the Year, no Hall of Fame as far as I sm concerned.

You’re kidding right?

[v j stauffer]

No Horse of the Year, no Hall of Fame as far as I sm concerned.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj0lCWqSo1Q

Pick up this video at 4:35

[GMB@BP]

He wasnt all that good...somewhere between Dollar Bill and War Emblem. Caught a weak group, had no heart, wasnt that fast either.

[v j stauffer]

He wasnt all that good...somewhere between Dollar Bill and War Emblem. Caught a weak group, had no heart, wasnt that fast either.

For someone that usually seems to have sharp takes. That's the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever seen written.

Dollar Bill & War Emblem?:lol::lol:

The only other undefeated Triple Crown winner is Seattle Slew.

IMO had he raced in this era he could very well have been retired early too.

I understand if as a fan you're pissed. I'm disappointed too.

But it's not the horse's fault. When you're looking at hundreds of millions of dollars you just can't take a chance of having him get trounced or worse yet pull up bad.

Think of Big Brown. How he's perceived. How would people look at him had he not run in the Belmont for whatever reason?

Scratching would fade away and all that would be left would be crushing victories in the Derby and Preakness.

Being pulled up in the Belmont is his lasting image. And a costly one.

If you owned Justify and were presented with the same decision what would you do?

Would you think it was warranted to call him average because he has filling in his ankle?

[GMB@BP]

You were not around all spring were I had to constantly defend the horse, so most people knew it was pure sarcasm. I have an idea of how good the horse is historically compared to some others over the last say 25 years, at least from the people I trust.

also the Dollar Bill reference was an inside joke to an earlier locked thread.

[Buckeye]

Who is MoW?

Please remind me--

Ok, I got it, Man o' War.

No comparison.

Justify is retired? Nice work.

[Inner Dirt]

Just wondering and I know zero about breeding horses, is retiring horses early for breeding purposes risk passing infirmities into the bloodlines? Does durability get passed on or is it a moot point? Just wondering, I know people are trying to protect their investment, and I am 100% fine with that, just wondering about the long term effects.

[ultracapper]

He's a lock for HOY.

A lock for HOF also.

[ultracapper]

You were not around all spring were I had to constantly defend the horse, so most people knew it was pure sarcasm. I have an idea of how good the horse is historically compared to some others over the last say 25 years, at least from the people I trust.

also the Dollar Bill reference was an inside joke to an earlier locked thread.

You would have left Van Dyke up.

[v j stauffer]

You were not around all spring were I had to constantly defend the horse, so most people knew it was pure sarcasm. I have an idea of how good the horse is historically compared to some others over the last say 25 years, at least from the people I trust.

also the Dollar Bill reference was an inside joke to an earlier locked thread.

Oh shitballs I'm sorry. I had know clue it was an inside joke. Like I said it seemed totally out of character for you.

:blush:

[dilanesp]

A lock for HOF also.

Only in this sport.

Imagine a baseball player who had one great season and retired healthy simply because he didn't want to compete. No way he gets near Cooperstown.

[Tom]

And dammit, Justify should never get into Cooperstown either~!:rant:

[ultracapper]

Only in this sport.

Imagine a baseball player who had one great season and retired healthy simply because he didn't want to compete. No way he gets near Cooperstown.

I think Don Larsen should be in Cooperstown all because of one great afternoon in October 1956. It is the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Statistics, which is exactly what it has become.

[thaskalos]

This used to be a "sport"...but it has now become a "game". And in a game...the money reigns supreme as the ultimate "scorekeeper". Horse ownership is a very risky venture...and the breeding money for the genuine "stars" of the game has gotten too big to pass up. I don't blame the connections for taking the money and running in cases such as this.

[Spalding No!]

I don't blame the connections for taking the money and running in cases such as this.
..."taking the money and NOT running"...

[Grits]

Retiring your horse, yes, I get that. Then, only minutes after this announcement, you begin to hawk on the internet, a tour of your horse farm, starting at $20 per person for one hour, then $30 per person for two hours, etc, etc. Book early, beginning August 16 as there is no guarantee that Justify will be available for viewing as he could move to another farm. Any and all cancellations must be made 48 hours in advance.

And you have a deal for 60+M.

I don't see how Troutt can keep a straight face...what a joke these folks are.

[Andy Asaro]

Retiring your horse, yes, I get that. Then, only minutes after this announcement, you begin to hawk on the internet, a tour of your horse farm, starting at $20 per person for one hour, then $30 per person for two hours, etc, etc. Book early, beginning August 16 as there is no guarantee that Justify will be available for viewing as he could move to another farm. Any and all cancellations must be made 48 hours in advance.

And you have a deal for 60+M.

I don't see how Troutt can keep a straight face...what a joke these folks are.

Amen.

[GMB@BP]

Retiring your horse, yes, I get that. Then, only minutes after this announcement, you begin to hawk on the internet, a tour of your horse farm, starting at $20 per person for one hour, then $30 per person for two hours, etc, etc. Book early, beginning August 16 as there is no guarantee that Justify will be available for viewing as he could move to another farm. Any and all cancellations must be made 48 hours in advance.

And you have a deal for 60+M.

I don't see how Troutt can keep a straight face...what a joke these folks are.

Yea, thats crap. do they require fees to normally tour their stallions?

[Grits]

Yea, thats crap. do they require fees to normally tour their stallions?

I've been to many farms...and have never been asked to pay a dime. I have tipped all of the stallions handlers when at each. Saw Tiznow, Distorted Humor and others just after Tiz was retired to Winstar.

I have to add, regarding champions, one of the greatest sights I've seen in this sport was at the top of the stretch at Keeneland when Pharoah turned it loose and smoked the field in the Classic. And I feel the same way about Gun Runner. These two horses did far more for the sport.

Justify will always be a flash...a memorable one, yet still, simply that. Though, he was surely handsome and all about business.

[NY BRED]

This incredible thoroughbred won 9 straight races, never ran as a two
year old and beat multiple contenders at various tracks at different
distances and surfaces. Name another horse that has this record.

Does winning the Haskell add to the legend of this incredible horse?
What does winning or losing the Breeders Cup add, at this point
to the accomplishments of this horse?

Anyone connected to this game is aware of the risks facing the horse and
jockey in racing and works. An example is the serious injury to Victor Espinoza and death of a really good horse during a recent workout.


The owners of Justify have the right and duty to protect their
horse, and, btw, their investment.

Wouldn't you?

[dilanesp]

I think Don Larsen should be in Cooperstown all because of one great afternoon in October 1956. It is the Hall of FAME, not the Hall of Statistics, which is exactly what it has become.

I actually agree woth your last statement- Red Grange is in Canton, after all. But Justify doesn't get in on fame either.

[Grits]

The owners of Justify have the right and duty to protect their
horse, and, btw, their investment.

Wouldn't you?

Ahmed Zayat protected his rather nicely. Knowing, too, his horse could possibly lose the Classic. Four words...Keen Ice-Travers Stakes. Victor and Pharoah never even saw him coming.

Still, Zayat had passion for his champion and for this sport. Winstar, et al, no, they're just about the money.

[bobphilo]

This is what can be expected when a sport becomes primarily a business so that, from a strictly business point of view, it was the right decision. The problem is that for racing to continue to exist as a business it must be perceived by the public as a sport whose participants are not solely acting in their own self interest. What is lacking in racing is a powerful central governing body whose primary interest is the protection of the sport. Instead we have the inmates running the asylum.
I'm not sure I remember this correctly but I once read that the German Jockey Club, in addition to never having raced on performance enhancing drugs, a horse must also have raced for 2 full seasons before it can stand at stud. Other sports have powerful central bodies for their own protection. That's why athletes in other sports would never be considered for their Halls of Fame after only playing a few games. In addition, this is what racing needs so we can have uniform drug laws as well.

[dilanesp]

Ahmed Zayat protected his rather nicely. Knowing, too, his horse could possibly lose the Classic. Four words...Keen Ice-Travers Stakes. Victor and Pharoah never even saw him coming.

Still, Zayat had passion for his champion and for this sport. Winstar, et al, no, they're just about the money.

Bear in mind Seattle Slew, who was more valuable as a stallion than either AP or Justify, raced at 4 after sn injury at 3. There's nothing particularly dangerous about a horse racing as a 4 year old..They just get their breeding money one year later.

[soonboomer]

Bear in mind Seattle Slew, who was more valuable as a stallion than either AP or Justify, raced at 4 after sn injury at 3. There's nothing particularly dangerous about a horse racing as a 4 year old..They just get their breeding money one year later.

Slew wasn't thought to be a well bred horse when he was racing. He obviously became one of the all time great sires, but it wasn't because of his pedigree.

[Spalding No!]

This incredible thoroughbred won 9 straight races
The myth and legend begins already...

[Afleet]

This incredible thoroughbred won 9 straight races, never ran as a two
year old and beat multiple contenders at various tracks at different
distances and surfaces. Name another horse that has this record.

Does winning the Haskell add to the legend of this incredible horse?
What does winning or losing the Breeders Cup add, at this point
to the accomplishments of this horse?

Anyone connected to this game is aware of the risks facing the horse and
jockey in racing and works. An example is the serious injury to Victor Espinoza and death of a really good horse during a recent workout.


The owners of Justify have the right and duty to protect their
horse, and, btw, their investment.

Wouldn't you?

I only count 6 wins

[Afleet]

Spectacular Bid would have beaten this horse by a pole

[jimmyb]

A triple crown winner will be a lock.

[papillon]

Yea, thats crap. do they require fees to normally tour their stallions?

The only times I've heard of people paying is if they use one of those multi-farm tour companies.

Spendthrift is great. You can't see her colt any more, but you can go hang out with Beholder every Friday. Shame they gave the little fellow such a crap name: Q B One

Taylor Made may charge for Chrome, not sure, but they had a ton of people descend on them to visit him, so it may have just been to manage the tide, if so. Some of those people go several times a year. Very dedicated fans.

I wouldn't pay. It's not like these farms aren't hard up for cash.

Most of the guys I want to visit are at Old Friends any way. I wanted to go see Game on Dude this summer, but ain't going to happen.

[Someday Silent]

This incredible thoroughbred won 9 straight races, never ran as a two
year old and beat multiple contenders at various tracks at different
distances and surfaces. Name another horse that has this record.

Does winning the Haskell add to the legend of this incredible horse?
What does winning or losing the Breeders Cup add, at this point
to the accomplishments of this horse?

Anyone connected to this game is aware of the risks facing the horse and
jockey in racing and works. An example is the serious injury to Victor Espinoza and death of a really good horse during a recent workout.


The owners of Justify have the right and duty to protect their
horse, and, btw, their investment.

Wouldn't you?
Where in the world do you get 9 races from?

Yes, racing is dangerous, but the life of a breeding stallion can be just as dangerous. Stallions can get kicked by mares, drop dead of heart attacks (like Justify's sire did), or kill themselves in any number of ways out in their paddocks.

[papillon]

The myth and legend begins already...

Heh!

It's like War Admiral's size. He was only 15.2 hands and weighed under 1000lbs. Just a little bigger than MTB. But if you ask most people they'll say 17h.

What's weird to me is that Justify's size is always mentioned, but Quality Road was the same size and I don't remember anyone talking about it like it was a big deal with QR. Same with Hard Spun and Uncle Mo. Rock Hard Ten's size always came up, but he was over 17h and barely fit in the gate.

FWIW, since he's off to the shed--the best sires have tended to be wee fellows 15.2-.3-ish

The two world leaders are only 16h--Tapit and Galelieo.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/108817/pedigree-analysis-is-bigger-always-better

[kinznk]

Both MoW and Secretariat beat some of the best older horses running.

As much as I can figure, MoW only beat one older horse, Sir Barton, in a two horse race. All his races except for 2 were age restricted and the only other one he raced against a 3yo, Damask. MoW may be a very talented horse, but his resume, at least to me, seems to be lacking compared to some of the other greats.

I used this website, http://man-o-war.info/race-record.html

[davew]

This used to be a "sport"...but it has now become a "game". And in a game...the money reigns supreme as the ultimate "scorekeeper". Horse ownership is a very risky venture...and the breeding money for the genuine "stars" of the game has gotten too big to pass up. I don't blame the connections for taking the money and running in cases such as this.

I think it has been a game all of our lives, we just see it clearer now.

[JustRalph]

And dammit, Justify should never get into Cooperstown either~!:rant:

Baaaawaaaa!!! :lol::lol:

Pete Rose could ride him into town!

[dilanesp]

I think it has been a game all of our lives, we just see it clearer now.

Well, it's always had that aspect to it.

But most owners have, in the past, felt some obligation to the sporting aspects of it. Even the ones who have cashed in on the breeding gravy train.

[rastajenk]

The problem is that for racing to continue to exist as a business it must be perceived by the public as a sport whose participants are not solely acting in their own self interest. This strikes me as some special kind of bad logic. If not their own interest, whose interest should they be acting on? Would that be announced, or in the Form, or just something to be divined somehow by the customer? And that's supposed to help somehow?:confused:

[classhandicapper]

The biggest disappointment for me is not getting to see whether the time off to freshen up and get bigger and stronger would have translated into faster and better performances on the racetrack. Now, people are going to form super strong opinions based on a handful of races where figure makers disagreed and subjective opinions on pace were critical to the evaluation.

The best we can do now is see how the rest of the crop develops and performs. At least a few will remain sound, healthy, continue racing, and go through the normal development process. Let's see what happens with Good Magic. I'm not comparing Good Magic to Justify, but at his best he was at least good enough to get some kind of line on Justify. Hopefully, he'll stay sound and develop.

[castaway01]

Heh!

It's like War Admiral's size. He was only 15.2 hands and weighed under 1000lbs. Just a little bigger than MTB. But if you ask most people they'll say 17h.

What's weird to me is that Justify's size is always mentioned, but Quality Road was the same size and I don't remember anyone talking about it like it was a big deal with QR. Same with Hard Spun and Uncle Mo. Rock Hard Ten's size always came up, but he was over 17h and barely fit in the gate.

FWIW, since he's off to the shed--the best sires have tended to be wee fellows 15.2-.3-ish

The two world leaders are only 16h--Tapit and Galelieo.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/108817/pedigree-analysis-is-bigger-always-better

I think it's like everything else---people like the idea of this giant, incredibly powerful horse crushing all competition. They have the stereotypical image of the small, scrappy underdog. It makes for better marketing, even if the big horse isn't always all that big or fast, and the scrappy underdog might be a speed demon.

As far as Justify, it's a shame we won't see if he could have gotten any better or faster, or beaten older horses. As a racing fan, I couldn't care less if a breeding syndicate makes money, so I regret the races we won't ever get to see.

[dilanesp]

I think it's like everything else---people like the idea of this giant, incredibly powerful horse crushing all competition. They have the stereotypical image of the small, scrappy underdog. It makes for better marketing, even if the big horse isn't always all that big or fast, and the scrappy underdog might be a speed demon.

Yep. See also Secretariat's 22 pound heart (it WAS big, but it wasn't 22 pounds).

[bobphilo]

This strikes me as some special kind of and busines intetestgreed bad logic. If not their own interest, whose interest should they be acting on? Would that be announced, or in the Form, or just something to be divined somehow by the customer? And that's supposed to help somehow?:confused:

My point is that there is a distinction between the short term greed and business interest of individuals involved in racing and the long term interest of the sport as a whole, which includes all these individuals. The popularity, survival and profitability of the sport ends up being hurt by the premature retirement of its champions though profiting a few short term. Racing needs its champions and at this rate we will never see these again when they are whisked off to stud before they can prove their greatness. We are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Racing needs a powerful central authority whose purpose is the survival and long term profitability of the sport - not only short term profits of a few individuals.

[airford1]

https://twitter.com/SjRudy85/status/1022183680880590848

Steve Rudy, I guess you weren't around for Barbaro.

[airford1]

Only so much juice in the Lemon, just depends on when you use it.

[Robert Fischer]

So Firenze Fire is now our fastest 3yo??

or was that just a 1-turn thing?

or was that just a 1-wagering-coup thing?

Justify ran an amazing Kentucky Derby when pace is factored in. He wasn't 100% at the finish either, but I have no idea if that hampered him at all, or if adrenaline and momentum carried home his true peak performance that day. He did hold the margin over a tiring Good Magic.
He was close to scratching from the Preakness, and being pointed to the Classic, following the Derby. Fortunate to have a skillful hoof repair. Have no idea what if any pain-treatments, tranquilizers, etc... that he underwent. He won the Preakness with a sound hoof, but at about 80% condition to my eye. His amazing rebound in health and vitality between the Preakness and the Belmont on a hoof-repair that held well, suggested that a comeback for a prep and the Breeders Cup Classic would have likely been within his scope. His repair may or may not have been a long-term solution, but it could have probably been maintained or re-done if necessary.

Financial interests made the plan a no-brainer.

Was he an all-time great? I have no idea. Great athlete, brought up under the most favorable conditions to develop his talent, injuries prevented him from racing at 2, and threatened his Triple Crown run, and he got the job done.

He is what he is.

[DeltaLover]

My point is that there is a distinction between the short term greed and business interest of individuals involved in racing and the long term interest of the sport as a whole, which includes all these individuals. The popularity, survival and profitability of the sport ends up being hurt by the premature retirement of its champions though profiting a few short term. Racing needs its champions and at this rate we will never see these again when they are whisked off to stud before they can prove their greatness. We are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Racing needs a powerful central authority whose purpose is the survival and long term profitability of the sport - not only short term profits of a few individuals.

:ThmbUp:

Great post!

What is stated here is the obvious truth that none of the racing authorities cares to express publicly and try to do something to improve the sport and the game.

Instead, all of the involved parties, horsemen, owners, race tracks and horse racing journalists seem to be in a silent agreement based on a myopic view of short term profitability.

[bucksboy]

I really was looking forward to see him run in his next start with 7 or 8
weeks rest under his belt. Really nice racehorse.

[GMB@BP]

So Firenze Fire is now our fastest 3yo??

or was that just a 1-turn thing?

or was that just a 1-wagering-coup thing?

Justify ran an amazing Kentucky Derby when pace is factored in. He wasn't 100% at the finish either, but I have no idea if that hampered him at all, or if adrenaline and momentum carried home his true peak performance that day. He did hold the margin over a tiring Good Magic.
He was close to scratching from the Preakness, and being pointed to the Classic, following the Derby. Fortunate to have a skillful hoof repair. Have no idea what if any pain-treatments, tranquilizers, etc... that he underwent. He won the Preakness with a sound hoof, but at about 80% condition to my eye. His amazing rebound in health and vitality between the Preakness and the Belmont on a hoof-repair that held well, suggested that a comeback for a prep and the Breeders Cup Classic would have likely been within his scope. His repair may or may not have been a long-term solution, but it could have probably been maintained or re-done if necessary.

Financial interests made the plan a no-brainer.

Was he an all-time great? I have no idea. Great athlete, brought up under the most favorable conditions to develop his talent, injuries prevented him from racing at 2, and threatened his Triple Crown run, and he got the job done.

He is what he is.

His derby, with the pace factored in, was pretty damn special. I believe it was the fastest half mile run by a winner of the race.

[BMustang]

Justify will always remain a mystery horse to me.


No denying his Triple Crown accomplishments, but I really thought that Audible ran a more complete "package of work" in the Derby. Justify certainly got the golden trip and took advantage.


I was then looking forward to the two meeting in the Belmont, with my expectation being that Audible would get a better trip and perhaps best the Derby and Preakness champ.


Unfortunately, Audible didn't come out of the Derby well and was laid off, and Justify cruised because he was the best horse in the field and has now been retired. We'll never know Justify's true place in history and the subject will forever be disputed.

[dilanesp]

His derby, with the pace factored in, was pretty damn special. I believe it was the fastest half mile run by a winner of the race.

I really like Justify. I really liked him in the Santa Anita Derby. Liked what he did at Churchill. Thought he showed real guts in Maryland. (The Belmont, I have, um, other thoughts about. :) )

But the fact of the matter is, a 6 race career, all against 3 year olds, with the last race in early June of the 3 year old season, when the horse could perfectly well be brought back next year to run at 4, is not something racing should honor, and it is certainly not something that can be compared to all-time greats of the sport. Horses like Spectacular Bid and Swaps accomplished 30 times what this horse accomplished. Among TC winners, Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, and Citation all blow this horse off the track in terms of accomplishments.

Racing should shun Justify. Not because he wasn't any good-- he was good. But because owners should not receive the benefit of any honors from the sport for this sort of shameful act, and a horse with this sort of career should simply not be considered any sort of an all-time great.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Justify....probable HOTY...from the year 2018...which included the likes of...

Audible
Catholic Boy
Analyze It
Good Magic
McKinzie
Mitole
Hofburg
Vino Rossi
....and the interloper...
Gronkowski....

...:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

[NY BRED]

I apologize for the error in the total wins for Justify, six straight is the actual count.


I still maintain this Justify's incredible career will be an extremely tough act to duplicate .

PEACE
:headbanger:

[classhandicapper]

So Firenze Fire is now our fastest 3yo??

or was that just a 1-turn thing?

or was that just a 1-wagering-coup thing?



I'm a Firenze Fire fan, but I think it's more likely he's a miler or won't sustain that jump up than he holds that form and stretches out well.

[classhandicapper]

Justify....probable HOTY...from the year 2018...which included the likes of...

Audible
Catholic Boy
Analyze It
Good Magic
McKinzie
Mitole
Hofburg
Vino Rossi
....and the interloper...
Gronkowski....

...:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

Where's McKinzie when you need him?

[Redboard]

I going to miss him. Maybe we can take bets on how fast he parades around the paddock this Saturday at Delmar? A good performance could clinch HOY.
:cool:

[VigorsTheGrey]

Where's McKinzie when you need him?
Don’t know...McKinzie has been unraced since 3-10-2018...was he retired also...?

[GMB@BP]

Don’t know...McKinzie has been unraced since 3-10-2018...was he retired also...?

he is close to a come back, wouldnt be shocked to see him in the Kings Bishop.

[dilanesp]

I apologize for the error in the total wins for Justify, six straight is the actual count.


I still maintain this Justify's incredible career will be an extremely tough act to duplicate .

PEACE
:headbanger:

You shouldn't be bowled over by undefeated records. Cigar's 16 race winning streak was ridiculously more difficult than this. He eventually lost because Paulson kept entering him in big races.

[Spalding No!]

he is close to a come back, wouldnt be shocked to see him in the Kings Bishop.
McKinzie hasn't worked for over 100 days. Baffert reported he was back tack walking (i.e., not going to the track) back in May. When asked for an update a month later in June, Baffert reported that the horse had just started back...tack walking.

Even if he breezed this weekend, he would have at most 4 works for the Allen Jerkens.

If he's in one piece and the connections were ambitious, they might try and mimic Secret Circle's comeback, where he took a money allowance after a lengthy vacation then wheeled back in 3 weeks and won the BC Sprint (or Dirt Mile).

[GMB@BP]

McKinzie hasn't worked for over 100 days. Baffert reported he was back tack walking (i.e., not going to the track) back in May. When asked for an update a month later in June, Baffert reported that the horse had just started back...tack walking.

Even if he breezed this weekend, he would have at most 4 works for the Allen Jerkens.

If he's in one piece and the connections were ambitious, they might try and mimic Secret Circle's comeback, where he took a money allowance after a lengthy vacation then wheeled back in 3 weeks and won the BC Sprint (or Dirt Mile).

I just knew he was real close to working a couple weeks back, so I assumed that was 4-5 weeks or so to racing...sorry for my misstatement.

[classhandicapper]

I just knew he was real close to working a couple weeks back, so I assumed that was 4-5 weeks or so to racing...sorry for my misstatement.

Same here.

I kept reading things that made it seem like he was getting close to serious training again and then a few weeks would pass and nothing new. I checked the work tab after my last post and still nothing. Something must have set him back a little.

[Afleet]

Justify....probable HOTY...from the year 2018...which included the likes of...

Audible
Catholic Boy
Analyze It
Good Magic
McKinzie
Mitole
Hofburg
Vino Rossi
....and the interloper...
Gronkowski....

...:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

That Mitole has been running BC sprint winning type numbers

[v j stauffer]

That Mitole has been running BC sprint winning type numbers

He's out of training with a splint injury.

[papillon]

So Firenze Fire is now our fastest 3yo??

or was that just a 1-turn thing?

or was that just a 1-wagering-coup thing?

Justify ran an amazing Kentucky Derby when pace is factored in. He wasn't 100% at the finish either, but I have no idea if that hampered him at all, or if adrenaline and momentum carried home his true peak performance that day. He did hold the margin over a tiring Good Magic.
He was close to scratching from the Preakness, and being pointed to the Classic, following the Derby. Fortunate to have a skillful hoof repair. Have no idea what if any pain-treatments, tranquilizers, etc... that he underwent. He won the Preakness with a sound hoof, but at about 80% condition to my eye. His amazing rebound in health and vitality between the Preakness and the Belmont on a hoof-repair that held well, suggested that a comeback for a prep and the Breeders Cup Classic would have likely been within his scope. His repair may or may not have been a long-term solution, but it could have probably been maintained or re-done if necessary.

Financial interests made the plan a no-brainer.

Was he an all-time great? I have no idea. Great athlete, brought up under the most favorable conditions to develop his talent, injuries prevented him from racing at 2, and threatened his Triple Crown run, and he got the job done.

He is what he is.

Close to scratching? From his scratches?

Not 100% at the finish of the derby?

"Amazing rebound in health and vitality" That is the most astute observation about the horse in this thread.

[papillon]

His derby, with the pace factored in, was pretty damn special. I believe it was the fastest half mile run by a winner of the race.

But what time was it really?

Can't go by what the clock said.


Promises Fullfilled set it...maybe we can factor that into the variant.

[GMB@BP]

But what time was it really?

Can't go by what the clock said.


Promises Fullfilled set it...maybe we can factor that into the variant.

I have no clue what you are saying, do you handicap races or just read pedigree pages?

Was the clock broke?

Promises Fulfilled is pretty slow early, I am sure it wasnt much pace :bang::bang:

[burnsy]

So that's the end game? A 6 race career including a Triple Crown. Then to be able to say. "He ran the fastest half mile and held on in the Derby." Wow, I'll hang my hat on that for years. It sure beats seeing the horse race at different tracks.....:lol:

Gee, what a career. Racing will garner tons of traction off of careers like this. Unfortunately, its just happening more and more. The rest of the horses that ran in the Derby? You cant find half of them with a satellite radar either. This game is going great. Five and 6 horse fields are the norm...…….the excitement is unbearable. :p

[castaway01]

I apologize for the error in the total wins for Justify, six straight is the actual count.


I still maintain this Justify's incredible career will be an extremely tough act to duplicate .

PEACE
:headbanger:

An "extremely tough act to duplicate" yet just three years ago AP completed the same "act" and then won the Classic on top of it. So Justify's unprecedented accomplishments were surpassed just in the past few years.

[Tom]

If Firenze Fire is any barometer, the Classic this year will be filled with the
fastest horses ever assembled. I expect a Beyer of at least 145!

Justify would be buried by the late developing GREAT horses of this year's outstanding crop.

[burnsy]

Hofburg is going to run a 146 in the Curlin and then Good Magic is going to run a 147....wait and see. These horses are blazing.

[GMB@BP]

So that's the end game? A 6 race career including a Triple Crown. Then to be able to say. "He ran the fastest half mile and held on in the Derby." Wow, I'll hang my hat on that for years. It sure beats seeing the horse race at different tracks.....:lol:

Gee, what a career. Racing will garner tons of traction off of careers like this. Unfortunately, its just happening more and more. The rest of the horses that ran in the Derby? You cant find half of them with a satellite radar either. This game is going great. Five and 6 horse fields are the norm...…….the excitement is unbearable. :p

its tough to be a horse racing fan in 2018, it sucks in way too many ways.

I get it that its irritating...futbol is getting very popular, maybe less irritating?

[cj]

McKinzie hasn't worked for over 100 days. Baffert reported he was back tack walking (i.e., not going to the track) back in May. When asked for an update a month later in June, Baffert reported that the horse had just started back...tack walking.

Even if he breezed this weekend, he would have at most 4 works for the Allen Jerkens.

If he's in one piece and the connections were ambitious, they might try and mimic Secret Circle's comeback, where he took a money allowance after a lengthy vacation then wheeled back in 3 weeks and won the BC Sprint (or Dirt Mile).


Any word on West Coast? Last I saw (a month ago) he was being put back into serious training on July 1st but I don't see any published workouts yet.

[Ruffian1]

Any word on West Coast? Last I saw (a month ago) he was being put back into serious training on July 1st but I don't see any published workouts yet.

I do not know where he was physically when he was in "light" training but typically he would not have breezed quite yet. If he was galloping lightly and jogging a bit in between gallops he would need about 30 days of solid gallops before you saw a 1/2 mile or less work . Just an educated guess.( A trainer can go 15's early which clockers refuse to publish and finish up nicely so it can and is impossible to rely solely on final posted times as you know but maybe others do not).
Maybe he breezes in a week or so if the reports are correct. Might be a Saturday thing so he walks on Sunday when grooms might be having a day off and others covering for them. Maybe that is Mondays these days IDK. Don't know Baffert's Schedule. Check tomorrow's ledger. Probably be a once a week thing early on.
Hope that helps.

[GMB@BP]

Any word on West Coast? Last I saw (a month ago) he was being put back into serious training on July 1st but I don't see any published workouts yet.

Baffert said he looks awesome but no idea where he is at, needs to get going if he is going to run this year.

I still cant believe Castallano gave Thunder Snow the rail in the DWC.

[Spalding No!]

Any word on West Coast? Last I saw (a month ago) he was being put back into serious training on July 1st but I don't see any published workouts yet.

Per the DRF, both West Coast and Collected returned to the Baffert barn only recently. The key difference is that Collected went to Del Mar while West Coast went to Los Alamitos, so Collected is much more likely to breeze sometime soon (he was at a training center apparently).

At any rate, both are targeting fall campaigns, which basically means the Goodwood and the BC Classic...or maybe a minor prep and the Clark if there are any hiccups for either horse along the way.

[classhandicapper]

Hofburg is going to run a 146 in the Curlin and then Good Magic is going to run a 147....wait and see. These horses are blazing.


Hofburg 100. ;)

[Tom]

Hofburg 100. ;)

Weren't they handing those out at the gate yesterday? :rolleyes:

[Andy Asaro]

Question of the day.

How many Halters will Justify have for Auction during his lifetime?

5K

10K

20K

I think they walk by and touch him with a halter and then toss it in big box and ship them all over the place.

[Ruffian1]

Question of the day.

How many Halters will Justify have for Auction during his lifetime?

5K

10K

20K

I think they walk by and touch him with a halter and then toss it in big box and ship them all over the place.

You mean like Secretariat's race worn shoes? Lol.

[clicknow]

Baffert said

uh-huh.

:lol:

[thespaah]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj0lCWqSo1Q

Pick up this video at 4:35

"Its strictly business".
Damned straight

[thespaah]

https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/Triple_Crown_winner_Justify_retired_from_racing#
Once the horse was syndicated for an amount equal to the national debt of a small country, this was inevitable.

[Steve R]

His derby, with the pace factored in, was pretty damn special. I believe it was the fastest half mile run by a winner of the race.
Spend a Buck went in :45.20, 1:09.60, 1:34.80, 2:00.20 and Justify in :45.77, 1:11.01, 1:37.35, 2:04.20.

[dilanesp]

Spend a Buck went in :45.20, 1:09.60, 1:34.80, 2:00.20 and Justify in :45.77, 1:11.01, 1:37.35, 2:04.20.

Spend a Buck was a better horse than Justify.

[outofthebox]

Spend a Buck was a better horse than Justify.Good thing there wasn't social media when Spend a Buck skipped the Preakness for the Jersey Derby. He was a good one.

[v j stauffer]

Good thing there wasn't social media when Spend a Buck skipped the Preakness for the Jersey Derby. He was a good one.

What would have been different if there was social media when Spend A Buck skipped the Preakness?

[Fager Fan]

Once the horse was syndicated for an amount equal to the national debt of a small country, this was inevitable.

He hasn’t been syndicated. At least not yet, and I wouldn’t think ever. The options appear to be either a sale to Coolmore or stand with multiple ownership.

[Fager Fan]

As others stated, it’s getting harder and harder to find anything to like about this sport.

So now the TC winner retires “due to filling in his ankle.” No one thinks to ask any follow up on that one? Filling isn’t an injury, it’s inflammation caused by an injury. So what’s the injury? it’s not like they haven’t taken X-rays or done nuke scans to find out what’s going on in there. But instead we’re fed with “filling in his ankle” in mid-July means he can’t be ready for a race or two come Oct and Nov. Right.

[GMB@BP]

As others stated, it’s getting harder and harder to find anything to like about this sport.

So now the TC winner retires “due to filling in his ankle.” No one thinks to ask any follow up on that one? Filling isn’t an injury, it’s inflammation caused by an injury. So what’s the injury? it’s not like they haven’t taken X-rays or done nuke scans to find out what’s going on in there. But instead we’re fed with “filling in his ankle” in mid-July means he can’t be ready for a race or two come Oct and Nov. Right.

He didnt retire because of the ankle injury, he retired because he is worth 75 million dollars and has a slight ankle issue, that with time would have been fine, but everyone with half a brain does not risk 75 million dollars to run at 4.

[GMB@BP]

Good thing there wasn't social media when Spend a Buck skipped the Preakness for the Jersey Derby. He was a good one.

wait, this is a joke right? Before my time and did not know this. What is the Jersey Derby?

[dilanesp]

He didnt retire because of the ankle injury, he retired because he is worth 75 million dollars and has a slight ankle issue, that with time would have been fine, but everyone with half a brain does not risk 75 million dollars to run at 4.

How much money were the Hills and Taylors risking when they raced Slew at 4 after he suffered far worse injuries than Justify's filling?

I don't agree with you about anyone with a brain. How about someone who wants to win more races? Heck, Zayat at least took a tiny risk by keeping AP in training, but he wanted to see him run again and wanted to win the BC Classic.

Racing is the point of the sport. Nobody pays admission to watch horses make love. So there are lots of perfectly smart reasons to keep running.

[GMB@BP]

How much money were the Hills and Taylors risking when they raced Slew at 4 after he suffered far worse injuries than Justify's filling?

I don't agree with you about anyone with a brain. How about someone who wants to win more races? Heck, Zayat at least took a tiny risk by keeping AP in training, but he wanted to see him run again and wanted to win the BC Classic.

Racing is the point of the sport. Nobody pays admission to watch horses make love. So there are lots of perfectly smart reasons to keep running.

I have no idea the financial situations of Zayat of those with Justify, which has multiple partnerships.

Racing is a gambling venture, its a sport second.

I dont know how much Slew was worth, well before my time. Was he an expensive yearling? Well bred? Dont know. I know he was a great stallion though (though he was plain looking, at least when I saw him in 92'.

[dilanesp]

I have no idea the financial situations of Zayat of those with Justify, which has multiple partnerships.

Racing is a gambling venture, its a sport second.

I dont know how much Slew was worth, well before my time. Was he an expensive yearling? Well bred? Dont know. I know he was a great stallion though (though he was plain looking, at least when I saw him in 92'.

He wasn't expensive, but he was well bred and was sought after as a stallion from the start. And even assuming his worth wasn't known, they were still gambling with a stallion that actually was worth that much.

The point is they wanted to race, and they ended up beating Affirmed twice AND making a ton breeding.

[Katewerk]

They wanted to race, and they ended up beating Affirmed twice AND making a ton breeding.

It's 2018. Who plays the role of Affirmed?

[outofthebox]

wait, this is a joke right? Before my time and did not know this. What is the Jersey Derby?No joke. Garden State offered a 2million bonus for any horse who won the Cherry Hill , Garden State Stakes, Ky Derby, and Jersey Derby. This bonus lured Spend a Buck out of the Preakness and into the GS Derby nine days after the Preakness on Memorial Day. Regular rider Angel Cordero was unable to ride Spend a Buck because of commitments to Track Baron in the Met Mile. Laffit Pincay picked up the mount. Spend a Buck won the thrilling race by a neck in a three horse battle.

[bobphilo]

Spend a Buck went in :45.20, 1:09.60, 1:34.80, 2:00.20 and Justify in :45.77, 1:11.01, 1:37.35, 2:04.20.

Totally different track speeds. Comparing raw times without a varient is lunacy.

[dilanesp]

It's 2018. Who plays the role of Affirmed?

What if there is another TC winner next year?

[dilanesp]

Totally different track speeds. Comparing raw times without a varient is lunacy.

Sure, but Spend a Buck's Derby was incredibly fast and was visually impressive- he got clear by 6 or 7 on the backstretch.

[cj]

No joke. Garden State offered a 2million bonus for any horse who won the Cherry Hill , Garden State Stakes, Ky Derby, and Jersey Derby. This bonus lured Spend a Buck out of the Preakness and into the GS Derby nine days after the Preakness on Memorial Day. Regular rider Angel Cordero was unable to ride Spend a Buck because of commitments to Track Baron in the Met Mile. Laffit Pincay picked up the mount. Spend a Buck won the thrilling race by a neck in a three horse battle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgtwbJk7auM

Depsite the close finish Spend A Buck was miles the best that day. Creme Fraiche went on to win the Belmont in his next start.

Side note, I had no idea Howard Cosell did horse racing.

[Katewerk]

What if there is another TC winner next year?

I picked this horse for my Derby choice after his first start. Nobody wanted to see him go on to race again more than I did.

But otoh, I'm old enough to remember when we were being told this was a "stallion making" crop -- and now they're just a buncha bums.

I don't know who Justify can meet and beat in the older horse ranks that enhances his resume at this point. It's all risk and little reward, especially given the injury and the very good chance of regression due to that.

Kind of like Secretariat after the Belmont. He continued to race, yes, but the triple crown was the peak of his racing achievement.

[dilanesp]

I picked this horse for my Derby choice after his first start. Nobody wanted to see him go on to race again more than I did.

But otoh, I'm old enough to remember when we were being told this was a "stallion making" crop -- and now they're just a buncha bums.

I don't know who Justify can meet and beat in the older horse ranks that enhances his resume at this point. It's all risk and little reward, especially given the injury and the very good chance of regression due to that.

Kind of like Secretariat after the Belmont. He continued to race, yes, but the triple crown was the peak of his racing achievement.

Secretariat set some track and world records after the TC.

[dilanesp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgtwbJk7auM

Depsite the close finish Spend A Buck was miles the best that day. Creme Fraiche went on to win the Belmont in his next start.

Side note, I had no idea Howard Cosell did horse racing.

Cosell was on ABC's Derby and Preakness telecasts for 10 years. Andy Beyer used to routinely complain about him not knowing anything.

[cj]

Cosell was on ABC's Derby and Preakness telecasts for 10 years. Andy Beyer used to routinely complain about him not knowing anything.

I just started getting into racing during the early 80s, probably 83 or so. I remember Spend A Buck well. I didn't remember Cosell doing racing at all.

[GMB@BP]

I just started getting into racing during the early 80s, probably 83 or so. I remember Spend A Buck well. I didn't remember Cosell doing racing at all.

wasnt it Jim McKay on all the telecasts for ABC?

[dilanesp]

wasnt it Jim McKay on all the telecasts for ABC?

It was both for the first ten years. Cosell was a much bigger celebrity than McKay; he was like Bob Costas on NBC (who also insists on doing the TC despite knowing nothing about the sport), only bigger. When Cosell finally left ABC, they used Al Michaels, who did know the sport, in his place. McKay, of course, knew the sport very well.

[Mulerider]

Depsite the close finish Spend A Buck was miles the best that day. Creme Fraiche went on to win the Belmont in his next start.



Have to plug my home track a little (even though I live across the border in Texas)...

After winning the $350,000 Belmont Stakes, Creme Fraiche traveled to Louisiana Downs three months later and won the $500,000 Super Derby with Eddie Maple up. The next four successive winners were Wise Times, Alysheba, Seeking the Gold, and Sunday Silence. The Super Derby increased the purse to $1 million in 1987. I could be wrong but I think that was the first graded stakes to offer a $1 million purse.

[Fager Fan]

He didnt retire because of the ankle injury, he retired because he is worth 75 million dollars and has a slight ankle issue, that with time would have been fine, but everyone with half a brain does not risk 75 million dollars to run at 4.

He isn't worth $75m. That's just another case of how people inflate the supposed value of big horses. It's closer to $50m. In any event, your point furthers my case while at the same time avoiding my point that no one even asks what his supposed injury is and why he can't get a race in by Oct. They just take and print the excuse, just as they printed that the horse was "just great!" when he was limping on 3 legs.

[Tom]

The point is they wanted to race, and they ended up beating Affirmed twice AND making a ton breeding.

No matter what Justify might do if he ran again, what significant difference do you thing it would make to his worth? What could they possibly gain from racing him again, as opposed to what could the lose by doing so?

Smart business decision.
Bad for us, but we aren't paying the bills.

[Ruffian1]

Cosell was on ABC's Derby and Preakness telecasts for 10 years. Andy Beyer used to routinely complain about him not knowing anything.

Cosell did the ABC roving reporter on the ground stuff in 1977. He came into the paddock at Pimlico the day of the Preakness while I am saddling my horse and waiting for Shoemaker so I could tell him about my horse who he was going to ride and started interviewing him about the Preakness. Then I hear riders up. Hardly got to say anything to Shoe. He tried to apologize for Cosell. It was something like "he doesn't know what the hell he's doing".

I was only 21 so I just watched it happen and didn't say what I was thinking.

What an pushy arrogant jerk Cosell was.

[Delta Cone]

Have to plug my home track a little (even though I live across the border in Texas)...

After winning the $350,000 Belmont Stakes, Creme Fraiche traveled to Louisiana Downs three months later and won the $500,000 Super Derby with Eddie Maple up. The next four successive winners were Wise Times, Alysheba, Seeking the Gold, and Sunday Silence. The Super Derby increased the purse to $1 million in 1987. I could be wrong but I think that was the first graded stakes to offer a $1 million purse.

I thought that was the Arlington Million, first run in 1981.

[Fager Fan]

How much money were the Hills and Taylors risking when they raced Slew at 4 after he suffered far worse injuries than Justify's filling?

I don't agree with you about anyone with a brain. How about someone who wants to win more races? Heck, Zayat at least took a tiny risk by keeping AP in training, but he wanted to see him run again and wanted to win the BC Classic.

Racing is the point of the sport. Nobody pays admission to watch horses make love. So there are lots of perfectly smart reasons to keep running.

Zayat was taking zero risk. He'd already sold the horse's breeding rights so it was actually to his benefit given he got to pocket any purse earnings to keep him racing.

But otherwise I agree with you. The only risk anyone takes with a horse of stature is that the horse could lose it's "hotness." This horse is already worth $50m or so. What's the worst that could happen? He cools down with a loss or two and becomes worth $40m? So these owners aren't actually risking $50m or such, but instead they're betting whether the horse stays even or gets even hotter, or if he cools down. When they pull the plug so easily, then we can assume that they're betting he cools down.

[Mulerider]

I thought that was the Arlington Million, first run in 1981.

Thanks. You're absolutely right. Maybe the Super Derby was the first million dollar dirt stakes? I'll have to research that.

[devilsbag]

The Arlington Million was the first million dollar thoroughbred race in the United States, but did not receive Grade I status until 1983.

When the Breeders' Cup began in 1984, the graded stakes committee did not enforce the same delay and assigned Grade I status to all seven of the inaugural races, each with a purse of $1 million or more.

Thus a number of Grade I million dollar races had been run on both surfaces long before the Super Derby boosted its purse to $1 million in 1987.

[devilsbag]

From the New York Times recap of the 1983 Kentucky Derby coverage:

Given the working conditions, it would be difficult, otherwise, to nitpick about the coverage. McKay, Jack Whitaker, Howard Cosell and Bill Hartack were damp but poised throughout. McKay, at one point, demonstrated the wind velocity by extending his umbrella, which was promptly blown inside out. Cosell, perhaps feeling vulnerable, told the audience he was concentrating on holding down his hairpiece. Hartack, a former jockey, stood alongside Cosell, trying to shelter both with a golf umbrella. Hartack picked the winner, Sunny's Halo, which may have been a stroke of luck but only adds to the reputation of an analyst.Howard Cosell's network appearances were were becoming fewer and far between around this time, but he was a staple on ABC's Triple Crown coverage for a number of years. He had an incredible career and some very famous moments. If some of you kids want to take a look back, start here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UKx4FVjHPw

[bobphilo]

Sure, but Spend a Buck's Derby was incredibly fast and was visually impressive- he got clear by 6 or 7 on the backstretch.

I remember Spend A Buck's Derby and it was indeed impressive. However, it takes nothing away from from Justify's tremendous Derby performance where he contested a hot pace on a tiring swamp like track that destroyed everyone else that tried to stay with it except for him while he maintained his lead throughout the stretch. Both were great performances.

[dilanesp]

Have to plug my home track a little (even though I live across the border in Texas)...

After winning the $350,000 Belmont Stakes, Creme Fraiche traveled to Louisiana Downs three months later and won the $500,000 Super Derby with Eddie Maple up. The next four successive winners were Wise Times, Alysheba, Seeking the Gold, and Sunday Silence. The Super Derby increased the purse to $1 million in 1987. I could be wrong but I think that was the first graded stakes to offer a $1 million purse.

The Arlington Million, 1981.

The All American Futurity got there even earlier if you count quarter horses.

[dilanesp]

From the New York Times recap of the 1983 Kentucky Derby coverage:

Howard Cosell's network appearances were were becoming fewer and far between around this time, but he was a staple on ABC's Triple Crown coverage for a number of years. He had an incredible career and some very famous moments. If some of you kids want to take a look back, start here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UKx4FVjHPw

That's incredibly charitable.

He could be wonderful on boxing- his bombast fit a bombastic sport. "Down goes Frazier!"

But he really didn't know diddley about racing, and others at ABC, especially McKay and Michaels, were big racing fans.

[v j stauffer]

The Arlington Million, 1981.

The All American Futurity got there even earlier if you count quarter horses.

Back in those days the condition book listed the purse of the All American as $10,000 added.

LOTS of added $$$

[RunForTheRoses]

I just started getting into racing during the early 80s, probably 83 or so. I remember Spend A Buck well. I didn't remember Cosell doing racing at all.

This was the year I really got in to horse racing. Jim, Howard and Arcaro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZWw7_u3RGk

[RunForTheRoses]

From the New York Times recap of the 1983 Kentucky Derby coverage:

Howard Cosell's network appearances were were becoming fewer and far between around this time, but he was a staple on ABC's Triple Crown coverage for a number of years. He had an incredible career and some very famous moments. If some of you kids want to take a look back, start here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UKx4FVjHPw

Great post, great race, mean ole Angel.

[v j stauffer]

I remember Spend A Buck's Derby and it was indeed impressive. However, it takes nothing away from from Justify's tremendous Derby performance where he contested a hot pace on a tiring swamp like track that destroyed everyone else that tried to stay with it except for him while he maintained his lead throughout the stretch. Both were great performances.

The Spend A Buck controversy changed the face of the Triple Crown forever. He was alive for a $2,000,000 bonus for winning the Cherry Hill Mile, Garden State Stakes, Kentucky Derby and New Jersey Derby.

When Dennis Diaz and Cam Gambolati decided to skip the Preakness Chick Lang who ran Pimlico went ballistic.

He called Bob Brennan who was running Garden State Park a "Snake Oil Salesman"

Not surprisingly the next year was the first year of the Visa $5,000,000 Triple Crown bonus.

I was the back up announcer to Ralph Siraco that season at GSP.

We opened the meet before the facility was completely ready. That made for a terrifying situation for me.

ESPN had brought Dave Johnson in to call the race. Ralph was going to be part of the broadcast team stationed in the paddock. The plan was to have Dave call the race both on track and for ESPN.

Turns out they couldn't get the ESPN wiring all the way to the announcers booth on the 7th floor. They came up with a plan to get the wiring to the ledge near the photo finish camera and then use a wireless for the on track sound.

Steve Nagler who was the Director of Publicity sent me down to try the hookup a couple of times. I called the 4th and 7th races as a test. The Jersey Derby was the 11th I think. Everything went fine for both dry runs.

Fast forward to about 10 minutes to the big race. The plan was for me to introduce the field in the post parade as well as say 5 minutes, 3 minutes and they're approaching the gate 1 minute. Then Dave would come on for the final horses to load and make the call.

When the field got to the gate and started to load the phone rang. It was Nagler who said " Dave's mic is dead. When the field breaks wait a couple of seconds. If you don't hear anything. Turn on your mic and call the race"

What? I hadn't even memorized the silks!

Needless to say I was very happy and VERY relieved when Dave said " And they're off" for the whole world to hear.

That might have ended my career before it ever got started.

Another interesting note about that race was although Angel Cordero rode Spend A Buck to win the Derby he couldn't ride him that day. So they flew Laffit in to ride him.

Greatest finish by a jock that I've ever seen. He literally picked that horse up and MADE him win. It was against a darn good field too. I Am The Game was in there as was Creme Fraiche who won the Belmont. And Skip Trial.

When you watch the race listen to the long delay between the TV feed and the speakers in the infield. That was a testament to what a consummate pro Dave Johnson was. Is. As if he needed any other distractions besides standing outside on a ledge that wasn't designed for people.

Great job Dave!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgtwbJk7auM

[bobphilo]

This was the year I really got in to horse racing. Jim, Howard and Arcaro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZWw7_u3RGk

I remember that race fondly. I had her in the Derby. She would have won the Preakness if dirty Cordero hadn't whipped her in the face when she was going to pass him on Codex. He should have been DQed.

[Spalding No!]

When they pull the plug so easily, then we can assume that they're betting he cools down.
Or he's actually injured.

[Fager Fan]

Or he's actually injured.

Then tell us what the injury is, release the vet report, show us why an extremely fit horse is being said of in mid-July that he can’t get back to the races in October.

[Fager Fan]

No matter what Justify might do if he ran again, what significant difference do you thing it would make to his worth? What could they possibly gain from racing him again, as opposed to what could the lose by doing so?

Smart business decision.
Bad for us, but we aren't paying the bills.

There’s a saying about killing the golden goose.

[Tom]

Who says it is any of our business?
It's not like they owe us an explanation.

[Tom]

There’s a saying about killing the golden goose.

I'd say Justify is the Golden Goose and they are protecting him! :lol:

[bobphilo]

There’s a saying about killing the golden goose.

I've used the same expression about killing the goose that laid the golden eggs earlier in this thread. They're going for the quick big golden eggs by retiring him early. The goose they are killing is racing itself by retiring its heroes prematurely before they can build a fan base.

[cj]

It would be nice if our really good horses stuck around, but I'm not sure it would really help racing all that much if they did. For example, how many of the Zenyatta fans (the new ones, not long time racing fans) do people think stuck around and are bettors now? The game needs to figure out a way to make the gambling part attractive. That will grow the game.

Horses come and go and in the grand scheme of things a few stars sticking around for another year or two isn't going to matter much IMO, especially given how little they race when kept in training anyway.

[bobphilo]

True, not all fans become bettors but they represent a pool from which many bettors come. In addition any sport needs to maintain it's fan base to survive and maintain its image as a sport.

[bobphilo]

Or he's actually injured.

True, he might really be injured but in cases like this one has to look at the credibility of the sources and, lacking supporting evidence, I'd say Baffert's word is suspect. Remember how he denied any shady tactics in the Belmont, the 2016 Awesome Again and other cases.

[ReplayRandall]

It would be nice if our really good horses stuck around, but I'm not sure it would really help racing all that much if they did. For example, how many of the Zenyatta fans (the new ones, not long time racing fans) do people think stuck around and are bettors now? The game needs to figure out a way to make the gambling part attractive. That will grow the game.

Horses come and go and in the grand scheme of things a few stars sticking around for another year or two isn't going to matter much IMO, especially given how little they race when kept in training anyway.
So CJ, if we continue to go down the road of making the gambling part more attractive and the horses less of a draw to the game, we end up here:


The late Perry Tunks AKA Robert Goren, had as his signature, the following:

"Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will be betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here"."

[Tom]

One Zenyatta fan remains.....

[bobphilo]

The press coverage of the 1980 Belmont was hilarious. Temperance Hill was described as "a lay-about who fell asleep in the paddock before the race". Another wrote that Genuine Risk got her revenge on "that evil little imp Cordero" when she left him and Codex back in the slop. The funniest was when one chauvinistic writer said he swore that he saw Genuine Risks "breasts heaving" as she tried to hold off Temperance Hill". Bobby Riggs would have loved that one.

[Spalding No!]

True, he might really be injured but in cases like this one has to look at the credibility of the sources and, lacking supporting evidence, I'd say Baffert's word is suspect. Remember how he denied any shady tactics in the Belmont, the 2016 Awesome Again and other cases.
I wouldn't believe anything he said either.

But at the same time look at the circumstances surrounding the horse throughout his career (surgical lesion as a yearling, injured and unstarted as a 2yo, grueling schedule to make and win the Triple Crown, distinctly lame after the Kentucky Derby, intermittent training following Belmont) and you cannot simply dismiss the possibility of a career-ending injury with a wave of the hand.

[dilanesp]

It would be nice if our really good horses stuck around, but I'm not sure it would really help racing all that much if they did. For example, how many of the Zenyatta fans (the new ones, not long time racing fans) do people think stuck around and are bettors now? The game needs to figure out a way to make the gambling part attractive. That will grow the game.

Horses come and go and in the grand scheme of things a few stars sticking around for another year or two isn't going to matter much IMO, especially given how little they race when kept in training anyway.

If it regularly happened it would help a lot, because star horses generate a ton of sustained press coverage.

Since it only happens these days as a one-off, it doesn't help as much.

[Wiley]

Another interesting note about that race was although Angel Cordero rode Spend A Buck to win the Derby he couldn't ride him that day. So they flew Laffit in to ride him.

Greatest finish by a jock that I've ever seen. He literally picked that horse up and MADE him win. It was against a darn good field too. I Am The Game was in there as was Creme Fraiche who won the Belmont. And Skip Trial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgtwbJk7auM

Cool story. Thanks.

If I remember correctly, all of the jocks share bonus money went to Laffit which Cordero had a real beef with, since he had won the three prior races on the colt. I think Cordero was committed to ride Track Barron that day in New York.

Agree that somehow Laffit carried the Buck home in that race as he was spent from hooking Huddle Up early, then out gaming Creme Fraiche to the wire.

Funny, Sharon Smith says, even though the fractions were "slow" in the telecast.

Back to the thread theme,
Justify retiring is no shock and overall think it's never good for the game when the top horses only race 6 races for a career.

I saw a video of Justify's parade around the paddock on the 28th, walking better than he did with Baffert days after the Derby, when he was listed as "fine".

Not to worry, I am sure Baffert will pull another crazy good one out of his barn soon...

[cj]

So CJ, if we continue to go down the road of making the gambling part more attractive and the horses less of a draw to the game, we end up here:


The late Perry Tunks AKA Robert Goren, had as his signature, the following:

"Some day in the not too distant future, horse players will be betting on computer generated races over the net. Race tracks will become casinos and shopping centers. And some crooner will be belting out "there used to be a race track here"."

The draw is both and in varying levels for each individual. The horses are still important, they just change more often than people would like. I think the horse is still important, just doesn't matter if we have old stars sticking around or new ones arising to take their place IMO.

[classhandicapper]

I wouldn't believe anything he said either.

But at the same time look at the circumstances surrounding the horse throughout his career (surgical lesion as a yearling, injured and unstarted as a 2yo, grueling schedule to make and win the Triple Crown, distinctly lame after the Kentucky Derby, intermittent training following Belmont) and you cannot simply dismiss the possibility of a career-ending injury with a wave of the hand.

I would not dismiss the possibility that he was less than 100% for the Preakness and Belmont. I don't mean that they took a risk in any way. I think if it wasn't the Triple Crown and they didn't have a big shot to sweep it he would have been rested THEN.

Through the Derby I ranked him similar to American Pharoah at the same stage. But imo, instead of going forward he took a step back in the Preakness and Belmont.

[bobphilo]

The draw is both and in varying levels for each individual. The horses are still important, they just change more often than people would like. I think the horse is still important, just doesn't matter if we have old stars sticking around or new ones arising to take their place IMO.

You are correct when you say the horses change "more often than people would like". Sports do better when the fans get what they like. This quick turnover of stars cannot help the sport. Sports fans love to follow their heroes through the years. Imagine how interest would wane in any other major sport if every player on a team retired every couple of seasons?

[dilanesp]

The Spend A Buck controversy changed the face of the Triple Crown forever. He was alive for a $2,000,000 bonus for winning the Cherry Hill Mile, Garden State Stakes, Kentucky Derby and New Jersey Derby.

When Dennis Diaz and Cam Gambolati decided to skip the Preakness Chick Lang who ran Pimlico went ballistic.

He called Bob Brennan who was running Garden State Park a "Snake Oil Salesman"

Not surprisingly the next year was the first year of the Visa $5,000,000 Triple Crown bonus.

I was the back up announcer to Ralph Siraco that season at GSP.

We opened the meet before the facility was completely ready. That made for a terrifying situation for me.

ESPN had brought Dave Johnson in to call the race. Ralph was going to be part of the broadcast team stationed in the paddock. The plan was to have Dave call the race both on track and for ESPN.

Turns out they couldn't get the ESPN wiring all the way to the announcers booth on the 7th floor. They came up with a plan to get the wiring to the ledge near the photo finish camera and then use a wireless for the on track sound.

Steve Nagler who was the Director of Publicity sent me down to try the hookup a couple of times. I called the 4th and 7th races as a test. The Jersey Derby was the 11th I think. Everything went fine for both dry runs.

Fast forward to about 10 minutes to the big race. The plan was for me to introduce the field in the post parade as well as say 5 minutes, 3 minutes and they're approaching the gate 1 minute. Then Dave would come on for the final horses to load and make the call.

When the field got to the gate and started to load the phone rang. It was Nagler who said " Dave's mic is dead. When the field breaks wait a couple of seconds. If you don't hear anything. Turn on your mic and call the race"

What? I hadn't even memorized the silks!

Needless to say I was very happy and VERY relieved when Dave said " And they're off" for the whole world to hear.

That might have ended my career before it ever got started.

Another interesting note about that race was although Angel Cordero rode Spend A Buck to win the Derby he couldn't ride him that day. So they flew Laffit in to ride him.

Greatest finish by a jock that I've ever seen. He literally picked that horse up and MADE him win. It was against a darn good field too. I Am The Game was in there as was Creme Fraiche who won the Belmont. And Skip Trial.

When you watch the race listen to the long delay between the TV feed and the speakers in the infield. That was a testament to what a consummate pro Dave Johnson was. Is. As if he needed any other distractions besides standing outside on a ledge that wasn't designed for people.

Great job Dave!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgtwbJk7auM

Mike Battaglia is on that telecast too. So Garden State Park was teeming with race callers that day.

[devilsbag]

As this discussion continues, another side note is that LeRoy Jolley trained Genuine Risk, who had her famous incident with Codex and Cordero in the 1980 Preakness. Memories were short in this instance, as Cordero rode Track Barron for Jolley and was forced to honor his call in the Met Mile, where he finished third.

Regarding that Jersey Derby, a helicopter ride between the two tracks wasn't out of the question, but apparently NYRA wasn't too excited about helping Bob Brennan or Garden State Park and they wouldn't coordinate any sort of scheduling or even allow a place to land.