Whew!!! Bob Graham is making some very serious allegations!!!

[Secretariat]

From the Miami Herald!

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9584265.htm

[Derek2U]

Do you think we will ever know what happened? But maybe its
for the best. Our leaders do need some freedom to move as
they see it. If we watch every move they make ......... I hate
this Iraq war & when we were starting I said so HERE in PA ...
but we are there now so what can/should we do? We really
can't just leave.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'd like an investigation into Kerry and his ties to the conspiracy to assassinate members of the UNITED STATES CONGRESS in 1971. That's what I'd like to learn more about.

[PaceAdvantage]

When will you people get it? Bob Grahm says it was a "deceitful justification for war."

Nevermind that everyone else and their mother-in-laws were saying the same thing. Clinton and his minions, various foreign nations, etc. etc. CIA etc. etc. ALL said IRAQ had and will USE WMDs

But, we were just supposed to ASSUME that all these people saying the same thing, were WRONG.

Yeah, right.

And then if Saddam DID have what EVERYONE was saying HE HAD, and he USED them against either American forces, or Israel, or whomever, THEN you idiots would be clamoring for Bush's head because he IGNORED all this OBVIOUS and IMPORTANT INFORMATION!!!

Go to hell with your dismal BS. You've lost. Game over. Give Michael Moore a box of Kleenex on your way out the door.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I'd like an investigation into Kerry and his ties to the conspiracy to assassinate members of the UNITED STATES CONGRESS in 1971. That's what I'd like to learn more about.

That, and Kerry's criminal behavior in 1992 when on the Senate Select Comittee on Vietnam POWs and MIAs.

I know sec loves links, so here's one for him. The Vice Chairman on that committe in 1992 points a finger (the middle one) at Kerry for destroying documents concerning MIAs....oh, and don't forget his cousin C. Stewart Forbes' company was immediately awarded a contract by the Vietnamese gov't at the end of this "mess" for tens of millions of dollars. Be sure to read the last paragraph!....Let's talk scandal, shall we ;)

http://www.aiipowmia.com/ssc/mccreary.html

2. The attached Memoranda For the Record, one by myself and another by Mr. Jon D. Holstine, describe the relevant facts, which I summarize herein:

a. On 9 April 1992, the Chairman of the Senate Select Committee, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, in response to a protest by other members of the Select Committee, told the Select Committee members that "all copies" would be destroyed. This statement was made in the presence of the undersigned and of the Staff Chief Counsel who offered no protest.

b. Later on 9 April 1992, the Staff Director, Frances Zwenig, an attorney, repeated and insured the execution of Senator Kerry's order for the destruction of the Staff intelligence briefing text. I personally delivered to Mr. Barry Valentine, the Security Manager for SRB-78, the original printed version of the intelligence briefing text. I also verified that the original was destroyed by shredding in the Office of Senate Security on 10 April 1992, along with 14 copies.

c. On 15 April 1992, the Staff Chief Counsel, J. William Codinha of Massachusetts, when advised by members if the Staff about their concerns over the possible criminal consequences of destroying documents, minimized the significance of the act of destruction; ridiculed the Staff members for expressing their concerns; and replied, in response to questions about the potential consequences, "Who's the injured party," and "How are they going to find out because its classified." Mr. Codinha repeatedly defended the destruction of the documents and gave no assurances or indications that any copies of the intelligence briefing text existed.

d. On 16 April, the Chairman of the Senate Select Committee, Senator John Kerry, stated that he gave the order to destroy "extraneous copies of the documents" and that no one objected. Moreover, he stated that the issue was "moot" because the original remained in the Office of Senate Security "all along."

e. I subsequently learned that the Staff Director had deposited a copy of the intelligence briefing text in the Office of Senate Security at 1307 on 16 April.

3. The foregoing facts establish potentially a prima facie violation of criminal law and a pattern of violations of legal ethics by attorneys in acts of commission and omission.

a. It is hornbook law that an attorney may not direct the commission of a crime. In this incident two attorneys, one by his own admission, ordered the destruction of documents, which could be violation of criminal law.

4. I believe that the foregoing facts establish a pattern of grave legal misconduct - possibly including orders to commit a crime, followed by acts to justify and then to cover-up that crime.

[PaceAdvantage]

ElKabong,

To quote Sec.....


WHEW!!!

Thanks for that....lots to digest there....

[ElKabong]

PA,

Unfortunately there's tons more on Kerry's 1992 hatchet job on that committee. Here's a little more.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/13/165004.shtml

There's also a FBI document (link, scroll to bottom) on the web that states "Americans" were sighted in Laos and Vietnam. Kerry had no decent reason to rush the process and close the book on POWs/ MIAs.

http://www.paperlessarchives.com/pow.html

If Sec wants anyone to believe Graham's book, I want to see documentation of proof to those accusations, FBI and CIA documents such as is available on Kerry for his past criminal acts. Otherwise, it's just more Michel Moore spittle coming from Graham's mouth.

[Secretariat]

I see Pa....It's dismal BS when 26 pages of information is blacked out regarding 911, and a man who was on the Senate Intelligence Committee and risks arrest for revealing classified comes forward to reveal that information to the public. That's BS?

PA, you used to be open to issues here, but the hard core right guys have totally brainwashed you. And instead of dealing with the merits of this, you attack the messenger.

Why do you dismiss Graham so readily? It's not me you're dismissing?

Graham was on the Senate Intelligence Committee when 911 happened, and when we went into Iraq.

Don't you think it is in the public's interest to "know" what was in those 26 pages if indeed as Graham claims there are Saudi ties to this...

No, I imagine you don't because "protecting Bush" is more important to you than finding out what the truth may have been. Personally, I think Graham has made a very serious allegation, one which borders on criminal libel if he cannot back it up. But if he does indeed have those 26 pages of classified documents, and they indeed indicate that the Bush admin and FBI blocked a congressional investigation then we indeed do have a coverup.


"Two of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers had a support network in the United States that included agents of the Saudi government, and the Bush administration and FBI blocked a congressional investigation into that relationship, Sen. Bob Graham wrote in a book to be released Tuesday.

The discovery of the financial backing of the two hijackers ''would draw a direct line between the terrorists and the government of Saudi Arabia, and trigger an attempted coverup by the Bush administration,'' the Florida Democrat wrote.

And in Graham's book, Intelligence Matters, obtained by The Herald Saturday, he makes clear that some details of that financial support from Saudi Arabia were in the 27 pages of the congressional inquiry's final report that were blocked from release by the administration, despite the pleas of leaders of both parties on the House and Senate intelligence committees"

[PaceAdvantage]

SO, then lets go! Let's get these charges rolling. Let's get them out to the public.

I'm sure a 60 minutes piece on Grahm and the book is forthcoming. Every Bush basher with a book has gotten on 60 minutes...but funny, I don't think any of the anti-Kerry folks with a book have gotten on 60 minutes, have they?

And as for an open mind, you didn't even watch the Republican Convention. At least my mind is open enough that I watched most of the Democratic Convention....

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Secretariat

Why do you dismiss Graham so readily? It's not me you're dismissing?

Graham was on the Senate Intelligence Committee when 911 happened, and when we went into Iraq.




maybe if Graham had come forth with this information immediately, I'd take it more seriously. The fact is, if you want to "get the whole story", you have to BUY HIS BOOK.

"Gray info" for profit, very nice....It's the DNC way apparently. If what he said happened he (and others in the know) should have come forth IMMEDIATELY.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Derek2U
Do you think we will ever know what happened? But maybe its
for the best. Our leaders do need some freedom to move as
they see it. If we watch every move they make ......... I hate
this Iraq war & when we were starting I said so HERE in PA ...
but we are there now so what can/should we do? We really
can't just leave.

We'll never know all of what happened DU? But we can know what was in those 26 pages....

I agree we can't leave now. Kerry isn't proposing leaving right away as Dean and Kuccinnich did. In fact Kerry got grief from his own party for having the courage to say we can't just cut and run.

But DU, there is accountability, and there have been investigations in the past such as Watergate and Iran-Contra. This adminstration outed a CIA agent and there's been no accountability. Atrocities were committed at Abu Gharaib, no administration accountability. No WMD's - "It's a slam dunk" no accountability.

No one denies the admin needs freedom to move as they see it, but if those documents show a deliberate classfiication to prohibit showing the US public, Saudi links to 911, then I think we have a real problem here.

These guys are still caught in the Vince Foster conspiracies, and SWV wtrash, and now I guess they're saying Kerry wanted to assasinate Congressmen in the 70's. When you step back and read it you realize who the real fanatics are, and who's the mainstream.

Those 26 pages are available. Why not declassify them, as Congress requested?

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm so tired of the "Bush Lied" and the "Deceitful Justification For War" crap. We went to war based on info that was corroborated by just about every intel agency known to man, both in this administration and the prior administration.

If I'm wrong, then prove me wrong.

It's probably one of the reasons Kerry said if he knew what he knows now, he'd STILL have approved going to war with Iraq.....

He did say this, did he not?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
And as for an open mind, you didn't even watch the Republican Convention. At least my mind is open enough that I watched most of the Democratic Convention....

I said I didn't watch the Dem convention either, except for Kerry's speech.

I'm not a big favorite of political advertising in prime time. I'm interested in information, not rhetoric and bombast, and that's what you get on both sides at a convention.

I do watch the debates as I think it demonstrates the contrast between the two, and has a marked affect on the election. The conventions,...political window dressing. On both sides.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I'm so tired of the "Bush Lied" and the "Deceitful Justification For War" crap. We went to war based on info that was corroborated by just about every intel agency known to man, both in this administration and the prior administration.

If I'm wrong, then prove me wrong.

It's probably one of the reasons Kerry said if he knew what he knows now, he'd STILL have approved going to war with Iraq.....

He did say this, did he not?

Of course he did. And I'm not here to prove you wrong. I'm supplying a link from Bob Graham who is talking about Saudi ties to 911. That is the part that interests me.

The Iraq part Graham reinforces is that Iraq was a diversion from getting the real culprits behind 911, not about the WMD issue, and the execitive branch hid info fro mthe public which demonstrates Saudi complicity in 911. That's the big issue.

I am curious to hear more about what Graham has to say on these 26 pages.

[PaceAdvantage]

Classified info is classified for a reason.....

And what if there is a link to Saudi Arabia. Then what? Do we charge in there with troops and take over the joint?

What's the goal here? What happens if there was a link to Saudi Arabia? What's the solution to that problem?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Classified info is classified for a reason.....

And what if there is a link to Saudi Arabia. Then what? Do we charge in there with troops and take over the joint?

What's the goal here? What happens if there was a link to Saudi Arabia? What's the solution to that problem?

Well, if there is a link to Saudi Arabia, the first thing we do is ask why the Bush adminstration hid this information from the public?

The second thing we do is demand an accounting by the Saudi Government on this. Those involved should be extradited to the US for trial just as the Taliban.

If they drag their feet then we have serious decisions to make. Our troops are in Iraq, and the Saudis know they are no match for them. We certainly don't want to invade Saudi Arabia, but if there are 911 connections to the Saudis, and they do not extradite those connections then we may have little choice.

Didn't President Bush say he would hunt down those responsbile and they would be prosecuted? Are you suggesting that we just ignore this information? and allow those complicit in 911 to get away with that complicity?

btw.. I agree..classfied documents are classified for a reason...the question here is was the reason to protect the adminstration, or because the document truly reflects covert information that needs protected...Graham and members of Congress seem to feel it is being classified to protect the administration.

[PaceAdvantage]

Protect the administration from what?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Protect the administration from what?

This is from the article;

"The discovery of the financial backing of the two hijackers ''would draw a direct line between the terrorists and the government of Saudi Arabia, and trigger an attempted coverup by the Bush administration,'' the Florida Democrat wrote"

An attempted cover up by the Bush adminstration. We don't know why they want to cover up this complicity. That's what Graham is saying. Why is the adminstration preventing release of this information if in fact it shows Saudi complicity? What is the administration's motive in this?

[JustRalph]

this was all hashed over before by the 9-11 commision anyway. they refer to some of this stuff if I remember right. Bob Graham is just making a few bucks for retirement and trying to help Kerry out. end of story.............

[schweitz]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I'm interested in information, not rhetoric and bombast, and that's what you get on both sides at a convention.


Now thats PRICELESS---Mr. I Saw Farenheit 9/11 Twice---LOL :rolleyes:

[Secretariat]

Really, Scweitz. Well, at least Moore posts every source for every quote he used on 911 on his website for viewing, rather than redacting any information which might be embarassing to his admin and hiding behind the phrase national security. But this pres has been good at hiding things.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I'm so tired of the "Bush Lied" and the "Deceitful Justification For War" crap. We went to war based on info that was corroborated by just about every intel agency known to man, both in this administration and the prior administration.

If I'm wrong, then prove me wrong.

It's probably one of the reasons Kerry said if he knew what he knows now, he'd STILL have approved going to war with Iraq.....

He did say this, did he not?

Even in absence of any of this information, we had an obligation to take out Saddam because he attempted to assassinate George Bush, Sr. who at the time was a SITTING U.S. PRESIDENT! Of course, it would have been less political if BJ Clinton made that decision but as we all know, he was preoccupied with "other things". So now that George W. Bush has done what BJ should have, all the liberal Democrats are crying deception. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass that no WMD were found. All I care is that Saddam is now in custody and about to pay for all his crimes including his plot to kill Bush Sr. And as for bin Laden, AOL is quoting a U.S. intelligence official who is saying that Osama is about to be captured. Needless to say, the buzz on AOL's liberal message boards is that Bush is going to roll out Osama just before the election to score political points. The desperation of the Democratic party amazes even me. With a 13 point convention "bounce", economy doing fine, the Russia thing, swiftboats etc. etc., Kerry is toast. My only hope is that Republicans gain heavily in both the House and Senate so all this Democratic filibustering crap can be put to an end and our elected officials can get back to what they are paid to do and that is vote on legislation. The images of Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi steaming in their seats will be freakin priceless!

[JustRalph]

Nancy Pelosi and "seat steaming" should never be used in the same sentence ever again.................let that be the first law the new congress passes...........

[Tom]

Isn't it odd that the only time someone comes forward with new information about national security and cover ups and whatever, they do it in a neww book coming out Tuesday?
Where was Bobby-boy last Sunday? Going over scripts with 60- Minutes? LOL

Sec, you guys are reaching so much it is funny. The fact that you still support MM just proves you have no creditbility, are a buffoon and a sucker, and bring nothing to the table.

[Secretariat]

Right back at ya Tom..Feeling is mutual.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Right back at ya Tom..Feeling is mutual.

No, no, I don't believe MM. You are confusing me with someboday else. :D

[hcap]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/08/graham/index.html

Graham's allegations -- supported by the Republican vice chairman of the House-Senate 9/11 investigation, Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama.

"In February 2002, Graham writes, Gen. Tommy Franks, then conducting the war against the Taliban in Afghanistan (and later to speak in prime time on behalf of Bush's candidacy at the Republican National Convention in New York), pulled the senator aside to explain that important resources in the hunt for Osama bin Laden, such as Predator drones, were being quietly redeployed to Iraq. "He told me that the decision to go to war in Iraq had been made at least 14 months before we actually went into Iraq, long before there was authorization from Congress and long before the United Nations was sought out for a resolution of support"

From the interview...

Why do you think the White House is so intent on keeping that information from the public?

I think there are several possible reasons. One is that it did not want the public to be aware of the degree of Saudi involvement in supporting the 9/11 terrorists. Second, it was embarrassing that that support took place literally under the nose of the FBI, to the point where one of the terrorists in San Diego was living at the house of a paid FBI informant. Third, there has been a long-term special relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia, and that relationship has probably reached a new high under the George W. Bush administration, in part because of the long and close family relationship that the Bushes have had with the Saudi royal family.

[Secretariat]

Thanks hcap. Even Franks knew it. Boy...

[lsbets]

yeah, Franks thinks Bush is so bad that he endorsed him

[ljb]

lsbets,
You should know it is not acceptable behaviour to speak ill of the commander in chief. Yes Sir! Sir!

[kenwoodallpromos]

Prove it or shut up, sore loser! You just want to damage the Bush family in case fellow Floridian Jeb runs in 2008.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by kenwoodallpromos
Prove it or shut up, sore loser! You just want to damage the Bush family in case fellow Floridian Jeb runs in 2008.

I find it so funny that the Democrats are jumping on Cheney's remark which really boils down to his belief that America is safer under the current administration than it would be under Kerry. Bush will never ask France for a permission slip to go after terrorists. But they say nothing about the lies of Michael Moore, the rants of Al Gore (who just yesterday insulted every Christian in America by comparing President Bush's "brand of Christianity" to militant Islamic radicals) and the wild accusations of Howard Dean. And now the trashy Kitty Kelley is slinging more mud in her new book. These rats know no bounds. Their party is imploding.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
I find it so funny that the Democrats are jumping on Cheney's remark which really boils down to his belief that America is safer under the current administration than it would be under Kerry. Bush will never ask France for a permission slip to go after terrorists. But they say nothing about the lies of Michael Moore, the rants of Al Gore (who just yesterday insulted every Christian in America by comparing President Bush's "brand of Christianity" to militant Islamic radicals) and the wild accusations of Howard Dean. And now the trashy Kitty Kelley is slinging more mud in her new book. These rats know no bounds. Their party is imploding.

What does any of this have to do with Bob Graham's comments?

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
What does any of this have to do with Bob Graham's comments?

Two words: SMEAR CAMPAIGN

[JustMissed]

Just read in today's paper that ole lying Bob Graham's book was 27th on the best seller list, just underneath the South Beach Diet Cookbook. hehehe

Hope the lying DemLibs keep attacking, it just makes them look worse and worse.

I am past the point where I have no concern about Bush's re-election so I am going to just sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

Can't wait til payback day, November 3rd.

JM

P.S. Heard today that President Bush is trying to get out of the second debate. I am not sure but I am hoping that is the Chris Matthews debate.

That would be an early Christmas present for me to see Chrissy get cut off at the knees. Hope they fire his ass and he ends up working for Al Franken.hehehe.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
Two words: SMEAR CAMPAIGN

After Swift Boats, you want to talk Smear. I understand the RNC convention was nothing but smear. Frankly, Graham has been talking about these issues for awhile.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
After Swift Boats, you want to talk Smear. I understand the RNC convention was nothing but smear. Frankly, Graham has been talking about these issues for awhile.

OK, 2 more words: FORM 180

All Kerry has to do is file that form and the close to 100 pages he refused to release will be released and the Swift Boats will go away. IF the papers support his claims. Bush on the other hand directed the Pentagon to release ALL his records back in February. And I don't think you could even put the Swift Boat Vets in the same boat (no pun intended) as Michael Moore, the Hitler comparisons, Whoopie Goldberg, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean and the methodical smearing of this president by NUMEROUS sources. Now even Kitty Kelley (a proven liar) has gotten into the act. The Democratic party has stooped so low this time that I believe they will not recover for decades. They are looked upon as a bunch of angry, foulmouthed, spoiled, America-hating, Christian bashing, ACLU worshipping, truth bending, filibustering, hypocritical liars. The anger alone is a big turnoff for the average "mainstream" American. It borders on comedy watching these people screaming at the top of their lungs on TV. I just hope that Bush takes down names and kicks some ass in his second term since he won't have to worry about any of the polls run by the liberal media.

[PaceAdvantage]

The French? Even Kerry wouldn't go that low, would he?

[Tom]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
The French? Even Kerry wouldn't go that low, would he?

Kerry has already proven that are no depths he would not sink to.
He looks up to snakes. And envies thier credibility.
I seriously think Kerry has some form of mental illness. Not the same kind Ljb has, but some kind for sure.

[Secretariat]

Are ALL of these guys Saudis?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/04/26/wchech26.xml

This is an old 2002 article...How could we tell Putin to negotiate with the Chechen rebels when these are the kind of scum they represent?

[Secretariat]

Hard to beleive that only today was Chechnya put on the terrorist list of countries by this admin, especially in lieu of that 2002 article I just posted.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
After Swift Boats, you want to talk Smear. I understand the RNC convention was nothing but smear.....

But then you didn't watch it did you?

[kenwoodallpromos]

I enlisted for 4 and served 6. Bush and Kerry both were allowed out early. Screw them both.

[Tom]

So then run.
I'll vote for you!:D

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Tom
But then you didn't watch it did you?

No, I didn't Tom, and perhaps I am wrong about Repubs bashing and smearing John Kerry at the convention. If so, I apologize.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
No, I didn't Tom, and perhaps I am wrong about Repubs bashing and smearing John Kerry at the convention. If so, I apologize.

After "Hollywood Hate-Fest 04", I don't think any Democrat wants to talk about smear.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
After "Hollywood Hate-Fest 04", I don't think any Democrat wants to talk about smear.

DOn't know anything about that. Was that sponsored by the Kerry campaign?

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, he appeared on stage at one of the events....so I guess that sort of means he endorsed it, unless of course he didn't, which is entirely possible given his history.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The difference is, Kerry put himself in for medals after being rejected, and most of the controversial stuff is what came from his mouth so is fair game; with baby Bush it did not originate with him.
This is a loser teying to sell a book with absolutely nothing but a chip on his shoulder. A Bush hater.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
DOn't know anything about that. Was that sponsored by the Kerry campaign?

Of course he sponsored it. This was the famous "mainstream Americans" event.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
Of course he sponsored it. This was the famous "mainstream Americans" event.

I'm not trying to be flippant here, but is there any link you could provide that shows the Kerry campaign was a sponsor of this event. You say it is famous, perhaps I'm ignorant on it, but have never heard of it. I don't live in CA (there ya go JR - only 49 states to go) so I may very well have missed it.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I'm not trying to be flippant here, but is there any link you could provide that shows the Kerry campaign was a sponsor of this event. You say it is famous, perhaps I'm ignorant on it, but have never heard of it. I don't live in CA (there ya go JR - only 49 states to go) so I may very well have missed it.

This was the Whoopie Goldberg incident. A number of Hollywood celebs were there and they all got their little cheap shops in. The funniest I think was Chevy Chase who took about 15 seconds to say "I hate him". It was like "I .... I ..... I just ...... I ..... I just ..... I just hate ..... I just hate him". And they say Bush talks funny. So after all the personal insults about his looks, his intellect, his family, the vulgarity, the mean spirited garbage, Kerry gets on stage and proclaims these people to be "mainstream America". All that shows me is that Kerry is a punk. He gets sleazy people to pile on in a controlled environment and then jumps in at the end putting his stamp of approval on it all. I just hope President Bush takes down names and kicks some ass in his second term.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
This was the Whoopie Goldberg incident. A number of Hollywood celebs were there and they all got their little cheap shops in. The funniest I think was Chevy Chase who took about 15 seconds to say "I hate him". It was like "I .... I ..... I just ...... I ..... I just ..... I just hate ..... I just hate him". And they say Bush talks funny. So after all the personal insults about his looks, his intellect, his family, the vulgarity, the mean spirited garbage, Kerry gets on stage and proclaims these people to be "mainstream America". All that shows me is that Kerry is a punk. He gets sleazy people to pile on in a controlled environment and then jumps in at the end putting his stamp of approval on it all. I just hope President Bush takes down names and kicks some ass in his second term.

Yes, now I remember that. In fact I posted my disdain for Whoopi's remarks. Pretty disgusting.

But that was not a Kerry sponsored event. When people get together to bash Bush that doesn't necessary mean they're sponsored by Kerry, OR even like Kerry, they just hate Bush.

Think you're making a connection that really wasn't there.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Yes, now I remember that. In fact I posted my disdain for Whoopi's remarks. Pretty disgusting.

But that was not a Kerry sponsored event. When people get together to bash Bush that doesn't necessary mean they're sponsored by Kerry, OR even like Kerry, they just hate Bush.

Think you're making a connection that really wasn't there.

The point I am making is that Kerry put his stamp of approval on the whole affair by saying "These are mainstream Americans". Whether or not his official campaign paid for the event doesn't concern me. His statement is what bothers me.

[JustRalph]

these guys have no class at all........Whoopi and the gang were letting go with who they really are..........how about this protest march from NY during the Repub convention.......

[Secretariat]

The analogies you guys make are bizarre.

PA,

Kerry appeared at the event so that means he must endorse it. Well, first, how could he be aware of what Whoopi would say. Also, when Bush goes to Bob Jones University does that say he is endorsing all the beleifs of Bob Jones University. I don't think so.

So there was no Kerry campaign money that went toward that event is what you're saying then Mike. Got it.

Basically, these guys go to where the money is....regardless of party. They go where people will donate to their campaigns.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did Kerry go on stage and say that "this is the heart and soul of America" before or AFTER Whoopi's tirade....

Inquiring minds would like to know....if it was after, I'd say it was clearly a ringing endorsement.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Egads! If that drawing is to scale, I wouldn't trust that bush if I were her. That huge growth looks like it'll take over her whole body. Or is that camoflage for her 'Weapon Of Mass Reproduction'?:eek:

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
No, I didn't Tom, and perhaps I am wrong about Repubs bashing and smearing John Kerry at the convention. If so, I apologize.

You aare confusing Kerry bashing with truth. Zel distributed facts in a way unlike I have seen I a long time. I guess if you consider truth to be a smear, though, then yeah it was a smear fest.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Secretariat


Basically, these guys go to where the money is....regardless of party. .


You sure you aren't thinking of Kerry when it comes to wives?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Tom
You aare confusing Kerry bashing with truth. Zel distributed facts in a way unlike I have seen I a long time. I guess if you consider truth to be a smear, though, then yeah it was a smear fest.

Tom,

Is this the Zell speech you are referring to from his own website?

http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Tom,

Is this the Zell speech you are referring to from his own website?

http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm

I think this is the 7th time you and/ or ljb posted the same speech. Congrats!

It's a pre 9-11 speech. He said at the repub convention that his views on nat'l security changed after 9-11 (i do hope it sinks in this time)....Oh yeah, you said you didn't watch the convention, lol.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by ElKabong
I think this is the 7th time you and/ or ljb posted the same speech. Congrats!

It's a pre 9-11 speech. He said at the repub convention that his views on nat'l security changed after 9-11 (i do hope it sinks in this time)....Oh yeah, you said you didn't watch the convention, lol.

El,

Your argument would hold more sway if this speech talked about national security. It doesn't. It mentions Kerry being a hero, a good friend (I don't treat my friends the way he did), someone who worked eliminating government waste, balancing the budget, strengthening our military, reforming public education, boosting the economy and protecting the environment. These are things that wouldn't go away as of 9-11.

Zell Miller is a self-serving egotist who wanted one more day in the spotlight before retiring

[ElKabong]

Bet,

as I replied to sec about this same speech 2-3 weeks ago, Miller was shown this speech's text by Russert on MEET THE PRESS 2 months ago. Miller said 'That's what they (state dems) handed me to say. When I get up in NYC the speech will come directly from my heart'.

I'm sure you can dig up a transcript. Check it out.

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by ElKabong
Bet,

as I replied to sec about this same speech 2-3 weeks ago, Miller was shown this speech's text by Russert on MEET THE PRESS 2 months ago. Miller said 'That's what they (state dems) handed me to say. When I get up in NYC the speech will come directly from my heart'.

I'm sure you can dig up a transcript. Check it out.

El,
I don't doubt that's what he says now. But if you are going to say something publicly you need to take accountability for what you say. My thoughts on Zell stand

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
The analogies you guys make are bizarre.

So there was no Kerry campaign money that went toward that event is what you're saying then Mike. Got it.


Number One - That is NOT what I'm saying. I have no idea who funded Hate Fest 04.
Number Two - Kerry used the term "mainstream Americans" AFTER all the celebrities got their cheap shots and vulgarities in.

The double standards continue to amaze me.

[Derek2U]

I mean Guys take a day off. The USA won't suffer if ELK et al
should Never Post politics again. In looking at the Summer Fling
results I see SQ & KinkDegen with under $100 earned. LOL.
Isn't that telling? Solving all the world's problems exhausted
them I guess. Now that's the real thing: When you tell us HOW
a race will unfold -- handicap a race -- we all know how right your
were very shortly after; but when ALL you do is politics, how EZ
it is to be all-knowing. PS: I'm off to the Jersey Shore for a
wedding & will stay over & be at monmouth park sunday ....
I'll be in the grandstand area with a Bright Red jacket that says
WALL ST SHUFFLE on the back. Please, look us up -- every1 who
meets me in person loves me --- 2nd PS: Don't be fooled by
Ghostzapper's Beyer of 128. It was in the SLOP at MTH and my
proggy adjusted that to 110!! --- Best Fun, djc

[sq764]

OR.. maybe it's because I played 1 card the entire Summer in the contest?

Do you sniff glue a lot, Mr bisexual ad man?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
Tom,

Is this the Zell speech you are referring to from his own website?

http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm
There he goes again.
Living in the past.
I once believed there was a monster in my clsoet.
I grew up, Sec.
So should you.
And your boy, JFKlown.

[ljb]

From Elk,
"I think this is the 7th time you and/ or ljb posted the same speech. Congrats! "
Now you are using old Rove tactics. Just posting lies and hoping some of the less intelligent ones will believe them. Please refrain from attributing things to me that I did not do.
Oh, and I expect an apology for the slanderous statement.

[Tom]

And when will you apolgize for the lies and venom you spread about decent soldiers and a dedcated president?
Don't bother. To paraphrase Tereeze Klown, you would have to be a fool to listen to you.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
Number One - That is NOT what I'm saying. I have no idea who funded Hate Fest 04.
Number Two - Kerry used the term "mainstream Americans" AFTER all the celebrities got their cheap shots and vulgarities in.

The double standards continue to amaze me.

This is what you said in your earlier post:

"Of course he sponsored it. This was the famous "mainstream Americans" event."

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Tom
There he goes again.
Living in the past.
I once believed there was a monster in my clsoet.
I grew up, Sec.
So should you.
And your boy, JFKlown.

It's interesting that when its about Kerry's "past" it's relevant with you, but if its the Rebub POV then the past doesn't matter.

But its ok, you make me laugh once in awhile.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
This is what you said in your earlier post:

"Of course he sponsored it. This was the famous "mainstream Americans" event."

Ok if you want to split hairs, I meant "sponsored" in a non financial context. Let's just say he "rubber stamped" it or he "approved" of it. In any case no decent person would agree with any of the hate that was spewed at that event. But then again, I guess a "decent liberal" may qualify as an oxymoron.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
It's interesting that when its about Kerry's "past" it's relevant with you, but if its the Rebub POV then the past doesn't matter.

But its ok, you make me laugh once in awhile.

Kerry is the one who chose to make it about his past. The only thing about his present that is getting press is were the docs forged and who forged them. Could it be that Kerry is afraid to get into a discussion of the future with Bush? Afraid to have his voting record talked about? Afraid to offer details to all his empty promises?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Tom
Could it be that Kerry is afraid to get into a discussion of the future with Bush? Afraid to have his voting record talked about? Afraid to offer details to all his empty promises?

Afraid...Kerry has offered to debate Bush every month since April. My understanding even now is Bush is trying to get out of the last debate.

I think he welcomes the opportunity to discuss policies head to head with Mr. Bush.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
Ok if you want to split hairs, I meant "sponsored" in a non financial context. Let's just say he "rubber stamped" it or he "approved" of it. In any case no decent person would agree with any of the hate that was spewed at that event. But then again, I guess a "decent liberal" may qualify as an oxymoron.

I'm not sure he rubber stamped it or approved it. He attended it. I don't think he's ever commented on Whoopi's comments at the dinner.

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I'm not sure he rubber stamped it or approved it. He attended it. I don't think he's ever commented on Whoopi's comments at the dinner.

My point is that his "mainstrean Americans" comment came AFTER everyone got their cheap shots in. Again, I don't want to split hairs on this and we've already consumed more bandwidth than it's worth but all I was trying to originally get across was that Kerry's comment offended many Americans who don't consider vulgarity, sexual innuendo and childish personal attacks by drug ingesting, foulmouthed celebrities to be in THEIR "mainstream America". As Bill O'Reilly says, "I'll give you the last word" as I am done trying to explain this to you.

[ljb]

Mike at A+,
Just one question. When you speak of Drug ingesting foul mouthed celebrities, are referring to Rush or Cheney?

[Mike at A+]

Originally posted by ljb
Mike at A+,
Just one question. When you speak of Drug ingesting foul mouthed celebrities, are referring to Rush or Cheney?

Uh no. I am referring to unprescribed drugs that the Hollywood types are known for. And if you are referring to Dick Cheney's overhyped "F*** You" comment said ONE ON ONE IN PRIVATE to another politician (not blurted out on TV in front of millions like Whoopi's disgraceful performance), you have no case. Cheney didn't go on TV in front of an audience that included children to make his comment. Once again, apples and oranges!

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Mike at A+
Once again, apples and oranges!

Perfect analogy........