Ever notice....

[PaceAdvantage]

How many times a horse turns for home and starts looking at the grandstand, and how uncomfortably often the jockey doesn't try all that hard to straighten his head out?

I've noticed this...a lot...I find myself yelling at my PC monitor "straighten his head out!"

The simplest things sometimes...it's uncanny how often the ones that DO straighten the horse's head out go on to kick it into gear...

[cj]

How many times a horse turns for home and starts looking at the grandstand, and how uncomfortably often the jockey doesn't try all that hard to straighten his head out?

I've noticed this...a lot...I find myself yelling at my PC monitor "straighten his head out!"

The simplest things sometimes...it's uncanny how often the ones that DO straighten the horse's head out go on to kick it into gear...

Geez, so obvious you've never ridden a horse or spent a day on the backside. These guys are pros, the best in the world!!!









:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
(sorry, couldn't resist)

[jay68802]

Geez, so obvious you've never ridden a horse or spent a day on the backside. These guys are pros, the best in the world!!!









:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
(sorry, couldn't resist)

This is completely false, I have photographic proof of PA's experience on horses.

[jay68802]

As to what PA is talking about, it also seem's to me that the longer you are telling the jockey to "straighten his head out", or in my case I am saying "Show him his target", the less chance the horse has to win.

[Jeff P]

My pet peeve? Riders who haven't taken the time to develop a left hand.

If you've ever played basketball then you know there's a right way and a wrong way to handle the ball when you drive to the basket for a layup. When you drive to the right side of the basket: Use your right hand. When you drive to the left side of the basket: Use your left hand.

As a general rule that's the correct way to handle the ball because it reduces the likelihood of a defender stealing the ball or blocking your shot.

After watching 10's of 1000's of races over the years I've come to believe something similar exists in thoroughbred horse racing.

Imo, riders who possess the athletic ability to (quickly) switch hands with the whip in the stretch have an advantage over those who lack that ability.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a rider get an early speed type to the wire first after going to the left hand in the stretch --

Wheras I can't tell you how many times I've seen a rider without a left hand get an early speed type caught at the wire.

As someone who learned how to do a left handed layup by the time I was ten, it's mind blowing to me how many of today's riders haven't taken the time to develop a left hand.

Watch a replay of yesterday's Indiana Derby. Imo, the stretch run of that race is a perfect example.



-jp

.

[Suff]

2 things and intentionally burying a Red Board on Gaby Gaudet in here because I like her.

1. When a jockey on the lead, turns around and looks back at the field. I get it on the run-up, and I get it up the backstretch routing. But at the top of the stretch it has to be 100% on the ears. Great jockeys see everything behind them with their ears in the stretch.

2. Manny Franco gets more F'n clipped heals and bounced around in the runup than any jockey I ever seen. I wonder if he has a blindfold on. He runs his horses into trouble crazy style. Kamikaze pilot in his previous life?

GG call out. Pretty and Talks horses as good as anyone. On Stars & Stripes Day she was in beautiful dress with pearl necklace. I had to take an extra blood pressure pill;)

6th at Belmont today, the team filling in for Andy Serling were dissecting the race.

Horse A was 1.90 Horse B was 2.20. Ten Eck and Joe's Smoking Gun But damn didn't the 3 of them spend 10 minutes dissecting razor thin differences in the 2 of them. . They were right, and it ran 4-7. But Gaby had taken the 7 who ran 2nd.


And she then said: "If I had known I was going to get Ten Eck at 2-1, I would of picked him".. Lol. Gaby, you can't say that Girl!

[alhattab]

How many times a horse turns for home and starts looking at the grandstand, and how uncomfortably often the jockey doesn't try all that hard to straighten his head out?

I've noticed this...a lot...I find myself yelling at my PC monitor "straighten his head out!"

The simplest things sometimes...it's uncanny how often the ones that DO straighten the horse's head out go on to kick it into gear...

Did you see on Twitter the Mig’s Criticism of your criticism?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

My rider pet peeve is when you have a 15/1 or so that gets loose at the top of the stretch, and your rider checks between his legs 2 or 3 times, over/under his shoulders a couple of times as if he is completely shocked he has a 6 length lead. :pound:


One of these days when I have one of those (maybe in another year or 10), he'll/she'll actually fall off. :pout:

[Tom]

Did you see on Twitter the Mig’s Criticism of your criticism?

Yeah, "put on your boots...." Ass clown reply.
We could talk about a hell of lot more moron rides that what PA was talking about.

Hey MIG - buy yourself a board and then YOU can tell people what to talk about! :lol:

[jimmyb]

Did you see on Twitter the Mig’s Criticism of your criticism?
I'm wondering why the Mig didn't have the courtesy or balls to do it here.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did you see on Twitter the Mig’s Criticism of your criticism?No. Feel free to post it. I'd be interested to read it.

I've probably said it more often than anyone on here, that I respect the hell out of jockeys and have written more than a few times that they have balls of steel to do what they do.

I am more often than not the one pushing back against the folks on here who over the years blame everything on the jockey.

But I can't deny what I see with my own eyes watching race after race.

[cj]

No. Feel free to post it. I'd be interested to read it.

I've probably said it more often than anyone on here, that I respect the hell out of jockeys and have written more than a few times that they have balls of steel to do what they do.

I am more often than not the one pushing back against the folks on here who over the years blame everything on the jockey.

But I can't deny what I see with my own eyes watching race after race.

https://twitter.com/RichardMigliore/status/1018664270689644544

[cj]

The "you try it" response is so lame. Why not take the time to educate about why he thinks the post is wrong?

[thaskalos]

Did PA-Mike appoint himself a "steward of racing"...without us noticing? :eek:

[PaceAdvantage]

Did PA-Mike appoint himself a "steward of racing"...without us noticing? :eek:I appointed myself the PA-Steward. It's right under my name...:pound:

I respect Mig. Not going to say a bad word about him.

He has his opinion which obviously holds more weight than mine.

I don't think that what I stated was that insulting to jockeys. It's just an observation. I guess it's not so simple to try and straighten a horse's head while running at top speed.

[RunForTheRoses]

I appointed myself the PA-Steward. It's right under my name...:pound:

I respect Mig. Not going to say a bad word about him.

He has his opinion which obviously holds more weight than mine.

I don't think that what I stated was that insulting to jockeys. It's just an observation. I guess it's not so simple to try and straighten a horse's head while running at top speed.

I respect Mig a lot, I wish he would get an account here and provide a teachable moment. You have actually been one to not allow the immense bashing of jockeys, there are posters who have been banned at least in part for going too far in jockey criticism (see EMD4Me).

So Mig if you are reading...

[Maximillion]

I appointed myself the PA-Steward. It's right under my name...:pound:

I respect Mig. Not going to say a bad word about him.

He has his opinion which obviously holds more weight than mine.

I don't think that what I stated was that insulting to jockeys. It's just an observation. I guess it's not so simple to try and straighten a horse's head while running at top speed.

I bet on a horse a couple of weeks ago at LA downs that appeared to be doing this turning for home and almost the entire length of the stretch (had blinkers)

I wish Mig had said more too,he would know tons more than any of us the possible reasons for this or what can actually be done?

[Tom]

Ed DeRosa added his to cents, too.
Isn't he the guy that sold shared in a pick 6 or something and while HE himself won, his "partners did not?

Yeah, esteem, Eddy.

[MadVindication]

The horses are looking to see if their connections are in the grandstand watching them proudly. Or maybe they have a momentary existential crisis wondering why they are running around in circles with a thin person on their back. I don't think jockeys can do much about it especially if by then they've already whipped the horse x number of times.

[cj]

Ed DeRosa added his to cents, too.
Isn't he the guy that sold shared in a pick 6 or something and while HE himself won, his "partners did not?

Yeah, esteem, Eddy.

It was his partner that won, not Ed. They put a ticket together for the Player's Pool that didn't hit, but his partner (James Scully?) hit a big one.

I got a good laugh out of your pace figures comment. I didn't realize that happened. Sad and funny at the same time.

I like Ed, think he is a good guy. I'm not sure he knew he was knocking PA since he is a member here. I think he was just attempting humor. I could be wrong though.

[Tom]

OK, I will take it back then.
Hard to tell on twitter what people are meaning.

That was my 5th tweet btw!:lol:

[bitkey]

How many times a horse turns for home and starts looking at the grandstand, and how uncomfortably often the jockey doesn't try all that hard to straighten his head out?

I've noticed this...a lot...I find myself yelling at my PC monitor "straighten his head out!"

The simplest things sometimes...it's uncanny how often the ones that DO straighten the horse's head out go on to kick it into gear...

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you have some clips I can look at? Is the horse's ears pricked? Is he looking ahead with inner eye or outside eye? Is his right ear only focused on the crowds? There are so many things might be going on that I would have to see clips to determine what is happening in each case.


There are many reasons why a horse's head may seem tilted outward including eye dominance, soundness,way of going and blinker cup size placement to name a few off the top of my head.

I have ridden a few races and can only recall a handful that paid any attention to the crowd for more than a split second.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's actually quite simple, really.

The horse's head is noticeably turned to its right. It's unmistakable and quite obvious to the naked eye.

I've seen this countless times over the past few months, when I really started to pick up on it. It's odd, because I've been watching races since 1986-1987 and I don't recall picking up on this sort of thing so very often. Maybe it's because I am watching a lot more races lately from "lesser" tracks, and maybe this sort of thing happens more with lower class horses. Or maybe not.

And you can see the horse who ends up straightening things out and looking back ahead running much better...whether that's because it's now running a straighter path, or is more focused, I can not say. But you more often than not see a vast difference in performance from when the head is noticeably turned to the right.

That's all. Nothing too complicated. I'm sure I'm totally wrong and you'll tell me why that is. That would be a good thing. None of us should be operating under myths.

Welcome to the board.

[Fager Fan]

The "you try it" response is so lame. Why not take the time to educate about why he thinks the post is wrong?

What do you reckon happens when you pull a horse's head to the left with the reins?

[Suff]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you have some clips I can look at? Is the horse's ears pricked? Is he looking ahead with inner eye or outside eye? Is his right ear only focused on the crowds? .

This is nice race, quality field, and the winner came out of this with a pre-saratoga hopeful buzz.

June 30th, Belmont, Race 1. Watch the head-on here.

https://www.nyra.com/belmont/racing/results?date=2018-06-30
link on the page.

The 2, Market Bubble. Watch the head on, it looks to my untrained eye as if he wants to look right, while using his left eye? There is plenty of head action.

I bet the 8, PLebe. * also a very nice 2YO.

To my eye, while he's on the turn right about 4 furlong marker, he's trying to look towards the hedges on the outside rail. Slightly. maybe I'm seeing things with him.

Postmaster who runs 2nd also a talent. This is a key race and all these 2YO are going to be bet deep at Saratoga. Thanks.

[PaceAdvantage]

Watch Keiber Coa as the :7: turns for home in the 5th at Delaware today...not that the horse needed it...probably was gonna win anyway...but once head was straightened out, he kicked into another gear almost immediately.

[Ruffian1]

Watch Keiber Coa as the :7: turns for home in the 5th at Delaware today...not that the horse needed it...probably was gonna win anyway...but once head was straightened out, he kicked into another gear almost immediately.

Just watched it.

The horse stayed on his left lead way too long and it looked like the rider was aiming out on purpose so as to have more room for correction if necessary . Once he switched leads to his right leg, he dropped in and took off.

The rider rode the horse with the stick in his left hand all the way. It was like he did not trust the horse enough to go right handed. The horse did lug in once he switched to his right lead and kicked on but the rider had room to correct and a fresh lead that took him past the inside horse that might have hung around to be possibly impeded by the 7 horse.
Maybe that was a thing the horse does frequently. It would seem so.
I also saw a bit that looked like a cross of a Moyers bit, one that has a prong on both sides of the mouth to help control a horse that lugs in or out but it also looked more severe than that. Like it had a button on the outside which would be a button style bit which again, is more severe than a Moyers bit. That was there for a reason no doubt.
I would assume that the horses form would show where he lugged in more than once in the past?
Hope that helps with this one.

[highnote]

What do you reckon happens when you pull a horse's head to the left with the reins?

It might depend on if the horse is "neck-reined" or trained to respond to the reins in some other manner.

I think I remember reading that thoroughbred race horses are NOT neck-reined, but I could be wrong.

Maybe race horses in different countries are trained to respond differently to rein commands?

from the always reliable Wikipedia :liar: :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neck_rein

Head tossing and turning the head to the outside of the turn are clear signs of bad training and/or faulty rider technique...

[pandy]

Interesting thread. I rarely complain about rides because some the questionable rides work both ways. For instance, I like to bet longshots and sometimes when my horse wins it was helped by a bad ride on the favorite.

My main jockey complaint is when the jockey keeps whipping the horse hard after the horse has obviously put away the competition, and when the horse rallies to take the lead by itself and is pulling away and then the jockey starts smashing the horse unnecessarily when he could have hand ridden the horse to an easy win. I find this puzzling.

[castaway01]

I like Mig but he didn't give an opinion or explanation. He just said if you're not a rider, you're not allowed to question the way a horse is ridden. Aside from being idiotic, it's just a way to stifle discussion or anyone questioning anything they see on a racetrack. Par for the course in racing, but disappointing since we all know Migliore is a smart guy and capable of having an actual discussion.

[jay68802]

8/22/2018 Race #4 at Saratoga.