Boys from Thai soccer team..

[Nutz and Boltz]

Surprised that there hasn't been a mention here..

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thailand-cave-rescue-no-plans-to-reach-thai-soccer-team-today-2018-07-04/

They actually expect them to swim out?! Jeez !


"The team is trapped about 2.5 miles from the entrance to the cave. To get out they would need to navigate through areas that require full climbing gear, several flooded sections, parts too narrow to wear a scuba tank, and a nearly 100-foot underwater dive. It's a difficult task for even the most experienced divers, let alone a group of boys who don't know how to swim."

[PhantomOnTour]

Praying they get these kids out. Reports saying they could be there for 3-4 months. What an ordeal.
Reminds me of the trapped Chilean miners, but this time it's children 😥

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Honest question.


Why the hell did they navigate 2.5 miles into a cave?

[Nutz and Boltz]

Honest question.


Why the hell did they navigate 2.5 miles into a cave?

There's talk of bringing up criminal charges against the coach.

[098poi]

Honest question.


Why the hell did they navigate 2.5 miles into a cave?


This was what I was wondering. Of course I hope for a good outcome and it appears that will happen.


With only knowing a few of the details on the surface it makes me mad. What the hell was the coach thinking. From the little I know they were exploring the cave when rains came and started flooding. That forced them to move deeper in.



My questions


Is the coach an experienced cave explorer or whatever it is called?
Was this part of their original outing plan to go into the cave?


I may not be the brightest bulb on the tree but it is inconceivable to me that if I were in charge of 13 or 14 boys that I would take them in to a cave to explore.



I don't really know the specifics so it is unfair to convict the coach just yet but the whole thing stinks!!

[Tom]

Horrible situation.
Those kids must be scared to death.
It can't be healthy to be there for a week, let alone months.

Possibly creating anew entrance from another spot?
They are pumping out water, but more rain predicted.

This thing has got to investigated - something very wrong happened here.

[FakeNameChanged]

Honest question.


Why the hell did they navigate 2.5 miles into a cave?
Exactly what I said while watching the report. So the wife explained it to me. It seems that dumbass coach took them into the cave a short distance and rising water from the torrential storm drove them further and further into the cave. She's questioned his intelligence to put it mildly.

[Nutz and Boltz]

The parents of those kids will have his head in a noose !

[davew]

It is called a spelunker.

[metro]

It is called a spelunker.

We had a spelunking club in high school back in the day, best H.S. club I was ever in. Nothing like crawling through a hole in the earth you could barely fit through and wind up in a cave room the size of small gymnasium.

Hope those kids make it out safely.

[davew]

rescue worker dies

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/thai-soccer-team-rescue-former-navy-diver-dies-while-exiting-flooded-caves/ar-AAzE2zD?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCDHP

[Nutz and Boltz]

rescue worker dies

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/thai-soccer-team-rescue-former-navy-diver-dies-while-exiting-flooded-caves/ar-AAzE2zD?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=HPCDHP

That out to put the kaibosh on the idea of the kids swimming out. Jeeez! As it is, all it would take is one of them to panic and they all could die.

[tucker6]

That out to put the kaibosh on the idea of the kids swimming out. Jeeez! As it is, all it would take is one of them to panic and they all could die.

The plan is to sedate the children during any rescue attempt to prevent panic attacks

[TiffaniO]

I have a panic attack just reading about it!

[Inner Dirt]

What is stopping a full blown no holds barred effort to get these kids out? Send in the United States Armed Forces. Fly in hordes of equipment and men to pump that place dry and reshape the terrain to prevent rain runoff from re-filling it. It would be some great PR for everyone that hates us.

[Nutz and Boltz]

What is stopping a full blown no holds barred effort to get these kids out? Send in the United States Armed Forces. Fly in hordes of equipment and men to pump that place dry and reshape the terrain to prevent rain runoff from re-filling it. It would be some great PR for everyone that hates us.


Seems so simple, doesn't it?

[elysiantraveller]

Seems so simple, doesn't it?

Musk's idea of pressurizing the cave the boys are in seems like a smart one for the short run.

A swim-out a last resort.

They are going to be there for awhile I think.

[Marshall Bennett]

I assume the clearance between them and outside is too narrow for any underwater vehicle. If that's the case swimming could be their only option if they don't have to dive too deep, and of course are able to swim.
I get the impression their chances aren't that good. I pray I'm wrong.

[elysiantraveller]

I assume the clearance between them and outside is too narrow for any underwater vehicle. If that's the case swimming could be their only option if they don't have to dive too deep, and of course are able to swim.
I get the impression their chances aren't that good. I pray I'm wrong.

From what it looks like you're going to have several "legs" on the way out. Which means lots of personnel and staging areas inside in the cave. Then the weather has to cooperate...

First priority would be getting them to where they can at least stay where they are at for awhile.

[Inner Dirt]

There aren't a lot of good pictures on what is going on, but what I see is not a good effort to get the water out. That cave entrance should be stuffed with pump hoses and it isn't.

[elysiantraveller]

There aren't a lot of good pictures on what is going on, but what I see is not a good effort to get the water out. That cave entrance should be stuffed with pump hoses and it isn't.

Yeah... it honestly sounds like a nightmare...

All of those different caverns though are probably under different pressures though so even pumping could pose a problem. Like a silly straw with liquid in random spots where pumping one dry floods another...

[Inner Dirt]

There aren't a lot of good pictures on what is going on, but what I see is not a good effort to get the water out. That cave entrance should be stuffed with pump hoses and it isn't.

Yeah... it honestly sounds like a nightmare...

All of those different caverns though are probably under different pressures though so even pumping could pose a problem. Like a silly straw with liquid in random spots where pumping one dry floods another...




I am just looking at random diagrams that may or not be that accurate. I realize tunneling and moving large amounts of dirt can take forever, but getting the water out should not if done on a large scale. I realize the pressure and seepage issues involved. I just think the local authorities are over their heads and need to call in help from higher powers ASAP.

[elysiantraveller]

I am just looking at random diagrams that may or not be that accurate. I realize tunneling and moving large amounts of dirt can take forever, but getting the water out should not if done on a large scale. I realize the pressure and seepage issues involved. I just think the local authorities are over their heads and need to call in help from higher powers ASAP.

Agreed.

USACE or something like that.

[Marshall Bennett]

The kids used a phone-camera and sent pictures. The one I saw looks bad and shows what lack of food does for two weeks. You would think they could at least run some sort of plumbing snake to them with food. Could be a case of "where it goes nobody knows". They are 2 miles from the opening outside. Hard to imagine taking kids that deep in such a cave. The chief in charge is a fkin idiot.

[Nutz and Boltz]

This looks risky, but if a trained Navy Seal can do it , then a bunch of scrawny teen and pre-teen boys should have no problem. :rolleyes:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/984556/Thai-cave-rescue-Thailand-football-team-latest-update-rescue-options-video

A three hour ordeal for each boy!

[snappit]

The kids used a phone-camera and sent pictures. The one I saw looks bad and shows what lack of food does for two weeks. You would think they could at least run some sort of plumbing snake to them with food. Could be a case of "where it goes nobody knows". They are 2 miles from the opening outside. Hard to imagine taking kids that deep in such a cave. The chief in charge is a fkin idiot.

Divers have reached them and some are staying with them so I have no doubt they will be receiving food and water. They won't look good because it was ten days before they were found.

[snappit]

I am just looking at random diagrams that may or not be that accurate. I realize tunneling and moving large amounts of dirt can take forever, but getting the water out should not if done on a large scale. I realize the pressure and seepage issues involved. I just think the local authorities are over their heads and need to call in help from higher powers ASAP.

I think this is a bit disingenuous. The authorities are receiving expert help with teams from foreign countries including US, Australia, China and expert cave dive rescuers from the UK who first found the kids, as well as many others from other countries. I am sure they are doing everything possible and looking at every option. They have already pumped out 130 million litres of water but it is not an easy task. They are building dams to divert the water flow. They have miles of piping and around 100 industrial water pumps. Air lines have now been established to provide oxygen. They are being well fed and there are doctors with them. It looks like everything possible is being looked at. These children are being incredibly brave and resilient and the guys trying to get them out are heroes risking their own lives as we have already seen.

[sonnyp]

it is hard to believe that guys on this thread are questioning the effort being made from half way around the world with no idea of the actual circumstances or physical layout of the scene while the world's best authorities on the topic are actually on hand accessing the situation and risking their lives. seems rather misguided to me

[davew]

it is hard to believe that guys on this thread are questioning the effort being made from half way around the world with no idea of the actual circumstances or physical layout of the scene while the world's best authorities on the topic are actually on hand accessing the situation and risking their lives. seems rather misguided to me

as well as never been underground in a cave that at times is only 6 inches wide with multiple water entry points.

[elysiantraveller]

I'm not demeaning any body.

It looks like a absolute mess to figure out. If they are getting air though and supply runs can be made into the caves keeping them put seems the wisest option while others are explored.

They may wind up there for a couple of months but if they all come out relatively unscathed it's worth the wait.

[Nutz and Boltz]

All we can do here is watch and pray .

[Inner Dirt]

I think this is a bit disingenuous. The authorities are receiving expert help with teams from foreign countries including US, Australia, China and expert cave dive rescuers from the UK who first found the kids, as well as many others from other countries. I am sure they are doing everything possible and looking at every option. They have already pumped out 130 million litres of water but it is not an easy task. They are building dams to divert the water flow. They have miles of piping and around 100 industrial water pumps. Air lines have now been established to provide oxygen. They are being well fed and there are doctors with them. It looks like everything possible is being looked at. These children are being incredibly brave and resilient and the guys trying to get them out are heroes risking their own lives as we have already seen.


All the pictures I have seen look like a 3rd world country operation. That is pretty obvious to most people, obviously not you.

[FakeNameChanged]

All the pictures I have seen look like a 3rd world country operation. That is pretty obvious to most people, obviously not you.
With pics I'm seeing dated yesterday, I have to agree with ID. None of us are on site, so it's all guesswork. As of yesterday, the "Authorities" are still putting their rescue plan together. Air is low in the trapped chamber as of Yesterday's reporting. It looks like the rescue plan is using divers/cavers rather than Miners. When miners get trapped underground in water, Millions of gallons in the 2002 Pa. mine, they brought in Mine drillers, not divers or cave experts. I pray for a good outcome, but experts dying on site is not a good omen.

[Tom]

I think we can safely assume the best and brightest are on the scene or on the job on this. When tragedy strikes, people come together. It is stronger than politics. It is just how most humans are wired.

I heard today they are talking about trying to use a buddy system to get the kids out one at a time with a pro diver at their side. Keep good thoughts.

[Inner Dirt]

I think we can safely assume the best and brightest are on the scene or on the job on this. When tragedy strikes, people come together. It is stronger than politics. It is just how most humans are wired.

I heard today they are talking about trying to use a buddy system to get the kids out one at a time with a pro diver at their side. Keep good thoughts.


I wasn't implying there weren't bright people there. I just don't see enough hands on deck, supplies or equipment. I saw one picture where it looked like water was pumped into a small holding pond and was being removed by buckets. Plenty can be going on while further strategy is discussed.

[Marshall Bennett]

In my opinion pumping water or however they try to remove it is wasting precious time. That time should be used elsewhere. If it rains as much as its suppose to it may not matter anymore anyway. I believe the weather begins to move in starting tonight and just gets worse.

[Tom]

I wasn't implying there weren't bright people there. I just don't see enough hands on deck, supplies or equipment. I saw one picture where it looked like water was pumped into a small holding pond and was being removed by buckets. Plenty can be going on while further strategy is discussed.
I didn't mean to imply you did.
Sorry if I came off that way.

[Inner Dirt]

In my opinion pumping water or however they try to remove it is wasting precious time. That time should be used elsewhere. If it rains as much as its suppose to it may not matter anymore anyway. I believe the weather begins to move in starting tonight and just gets worse.


It isn't like there are a limited amount of man hours bid on this job. People can be pumping water while others are trying to divert water from re-entering. While that is going on rescue plans can be made. You are acting like there are limited resources, there should not be at this stage. All hands on deck! I think if this happened in the USA those kids would have been discovered sooner and out by now. Sorry, but I am a USA homer and think we do everything better.

[Nutz and Boltz]

As of 6 A.M., the attempted rescue is underway.

[snappit]

It isn't like there are a limited amount of man hours bid on this job. People can be pumping water while others are trying to divert water from re-entering. While that is going on rescue plans can be made. You are acting like there are limited resources, there should not be at this stage. All hands on deck! I think if this happened in the USA those kids would have been discovered sooner and out by now. Sorry, but I am a USA homer and think we do everything better.

I think this is an absolutely awful post. Words almost fail me. You've no idea what is actually happening over there, your assumptions are based on the way you've interpreted what you seen in a few pictures with no facts to back up anything you say. You haven't a clue what they are trying or looking at. You haven't a clue about the difficulties they have and the decisions they have to make. There are over a thousand people on site doing everything they can for these children. Your last line says everything, a total insult to the Thai's and the people from many other countries providing expert help and equipment, doing everything they can and risking their lives You're basing everything on the fact that these people don't know what they are doing because they are foreign.Total xenophobia. Just for your information as you are an armchair expert, they are pumping water and building dams. Just because you don't know what is happening doesn't mean things aren't.


I apologise to all the decent people on here for my rant but the post that was made has made me angry.

Anyway, it looks like the operation to get the kids out has begun.

From a reporter on the scene:

Thai government releases graphic about #thamluangcaverescue . Full face masks; 2 divers accompanying 1 boy; guided by rope. When facing a very narrow path, they will release the tank from back and slowly roll tank & guide the boy through. They walk from Chamber 3 to mouth of cave


This requires high-level skills of the divers; the boys should have some diving skills, strong mind and should not be panicking.

The first boy is due out around 2100 (1400 GMT).


Let's hope for a successful outcome and wishing all the best to the boys and the brave people trying to get them out.

[snappit]

Reports are coming in from Reuters, apparently from local officials that two boys have been rescued. We have to take these reports with caution as there has been no official confirmation however, news over here is showing two ambulances leaving the scene. Let's hope this is good news.

[metro]

Reports are coming in from Reuters, apparently from local officials that two boys have been rescued. We have to take these reports with caution as there has been no official confirmation however, news over here is showing two ambulances leaving the scene. Let's hope this is good news.

seeing on Twitter that four boys have now been rescued.

[Tom]

Great news.....

[snappit]

Great news.....

Yes, really good news. The four are all now in hospital and being assessed by doctors. Operations have now been suspended while more preparations are made to get the rest out and to enable the divers to get some rest. There is a concern that it is now raining but they say if water levels rise too much they have an emergency plan to get the others out. Still a long way to go but we have to be optimistic.

[PaceAdvantage]

Your last line says everything, a total insult to the Thai's and the people from many other countries providing expert help and equipment, doing everything they can and risking their lives You're basing everything on the fact that these people don't know what they are doing because they are foreign.Total xenophobia.To be fair, pretty sure he didn't state they don't know what they're doing. Just that he thinks it can be done better.

It's the internet. Happens.

[PhantomOnTour]

It isn't like there are a limited amount of man hours bid on this job. People can be pumping water while others are trying to divert water from re-entering. While that is going on rescue plans can be made. You are acting like there are limited resources, there should not be at this stage. All hands on deck! I think if this happened in the USA those kids would have been discovered sooner and out by now. Sorry, but I am a USA homer and think we do everything better.

You are absolutely brilliant!

[Tom]

I think if this happened in the USA those kids would have been discovered sooner and out by now. Sorry, but I am a USA homer and think we do everything better.

Baby Jessica.
WE got her out in a flash.

[PhantomOnTour]

Yeah man!
If she had fallen down a well in Scotland she surely would have perished!!!

[Tom]

Yeah man!
If she had fallen down a well in Scotland she surely would have perished!!!

Sarcasm.....WE did NOT get her out in a flash. It took a long time.
She could well have perished.

As I posted before, I am sure the best and brightest are already working on this.
WE do not have a monopoly on emergency response.

Does everything have to be politics?

[PhantomOnTour]

Ask InnerDirt that question 😂😂

[Inner Dirt]

Ask InnerDirt that question ����


What is political about anything I said? It looks like a 3rd world country operation to me. I saw pictures of people moving water with 5 gallon buckets, a bucket loader that looked one size up from a law tractor, soldiers riding in the back of a two wheel drive mini truck. I looked at a couple hundred pictures.


My comments were directed at the lack of equipment and man power.

[horses4courses]

What is political about anything I said? It looks like a 3rd world country operation to me. I saw pictures of people moving water with 5 gallon buckets, a bucket loader that looked one size up from a law tractor, soldiers riding in the back of a two wheel drive mini truck. I looked at a couple hundred pictures.


My comments were directed at the lack of equipment and man power.

A team of 90 expert divers are working here - 40 from Thailand, 50 from abroad.
Not sure how that makes it a third world operation. :confused:

[davew]

What is political about anything I said? It looks like a 3rd world country operation to me. I saw pictures of people moving water with 5 gallon buckets, a bucket loader that looked one size up from a law tractor, soldiers riding in the back of a two wheel drive mini truck. I looked at a couple hundred pictures.


My comments were directed at the lack of equipment and man power.

I have seen picture where they have built stairs with handrail, are piping in air, and have electric lights - not sure where your pictures are coming from.

[098poi]

This is from 2007. There was a story about this woman recently and what she went through. I'm not sure if it was the same caves but still horrific.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1566266/Briton-drowns-in-Thai-cave-saving-girlfriend.html

[barahona44]

This is from 2007. There was a story about this woman recently and what she went through. I'm not sure if it was the same caves but still horrific.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1566266/Briton-drowns-in-Thai-cave-saving-girlfriend.html

Different caves, the boys are in the Tham Guang caves in northern Thailand, this cave was Nam Talu in southern Thailand.But still that was a scary story.
BTW, it was reported 12 minutes ago as I write this ,that 2 more boys have been rescued:ThmbUp:.That still leaves 6 kids and the coach.
.

[Inner Dirt]

I have seen picture where they have built stairs with handrail, are piping in air, and have electric lights - not sure where your pictures are coming from.


Linked off the first page of MSN, they even had a picture of what looked like 100 guys with shovels in a small area repairing a road. Something a bucket loader would have made quick work of. It makes it look like the mass of humanity on site is sorely lacking in equipment and supplies. Who knows, could be MSN was putting their spin on it, they are good at promoting an agenda and telling half the story. I don't see how their politics and bias could affect coverage, but you never know these days.

[Nutz and Boltz]

.... and the coach.
.

The coach is probably dreading the reception he'll be getting when he exits the cave.

[Inner Dirt]

The coach is probably dreading the reception he'll be getting when he exits the cave.


He got them into the mess, but probably also is a big reason they are still all alive, so who knows what the reaction would be.

[Marshall Bennett]

This region is prone to earthquakes and tremors. They were taken 2 1/2 miles into a cave. A lot of distance for a random cave-in.
Its my belief this coach didn't have the kid's safety in mind the least bit what-so-ever. Different culture than ours entirely. This wouldn't have ever happened in this country, especially where earth movements are common.

[Inner Dirt]

This region is prone to earthquakes and tremors. They were taken 2 1/2 miles into a cave. A lot of distance for a random cave-in.
Its my belief this coach didn't have the kid's safety in mind the least bit what-so-ever. Different culture than ours entirely. This wouldn't have ever happened in this country, especially where earth movements are common.


I thought they just kept going deeper to escape incoming water, it will be interesting when the real story of what happens comes out.

[Tom]

Ask InnerDirt that question 😂😂

I was replying to him. :rolleyes:

[Tom]

BTW, it was reported 12 minutes ago as I write this ,that 2 more boys have been rescued.That still leaves 6 kids and the coach.

More good news. Parents must be going through
Coach has risen to the occasion down there. Hope others see it that way.
And hope a lot more people learn from his stupidity in the first place.

[Marshall Bennett]

I thought they just kept going deeper to escape incoming water, it will be interesting when the real story of what happens comes out.I really didn't consider that. May be the case, I just can't imagine taking a bunch of kids that deep into the unknown. I assume this was their first trip there. If not I'd bet this one will be.

[elysiantraveller]

We can judge the coach for his actions leading up to their entrapment but keeping those boys calm and alive for 10 days before being found is pretty remarkable as well.

[highnote]

We can judge the coach for his actions leading up to their entrapment but keeping those boys calm and alive for 10 days before being found is pretty remarkable as well.

I read that he was weak because he gave the kids his ration of food. I also read that he was a former monk, but left the monastery. He taught the kids to meditate to conserve energy.

[Tom]

Anyone can F-up.
It's how you react to it.
This guy has done fantastic.

[woodtoo]

Mission accomplished!!:ThmbUp:

[barahona44]

Mission accomplished!!:ThmbUp:

Great news indeed.

[Inner Dirt]

Mission accomplished!!:ThmbUp:


Great news, hopefully the boys will not have any lingering effects, physically or mentally.

[Tom]

:headbanger: Yes!!

Hopefully, all will be well and get past this horrific experience.

[snappit]

Absolutely superb news. All rescue divers and the doctor have also left the cave.

Well done to all the boys and their coach for surviving this horrible ordeal.

Huge praise for every single person, both rescuers and back up workers, involved in this, an extraordinary effort.

So sad that one brave Thai Navy Seal died during the rescue, thoughts are with him, his family and friends.

[elysiantraveller]

Absolutely superb news. All rescue divers and the doctor have also left the cave.

Well done to all the boys and their coach for surviving this horrible ordeal.

Huge praise for every single person, both rescuers and back up workers, involved in this, an extraordinary effort.

So sad that one brave Thai Navy Seal died during the rescue, thoughts are with him, his family and friends.

Honestly its remarkable how quickly they were able to get them out...

Simply remarkable.

[snappit]

News now coming out about how the boys were rescued. It seems they were strapped onto stretchers and winched out on a system of ropes and pulleys. When they had to dive they were strapped to a diver and taken through the underwater sections. Absolutely amazing work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44695232

[elysiantraveller]

News now coming out about how the boys were rescued. It seems they were strapped onto stretchers and winched out on a system of ropes and pulleys. When they had to dive they were strapped to a diver and taken through the underwater sections. Absolutely amazing work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-44695232

Smart.

That way even if they panic they can't do much.

[davew]

I read they were given ketamine to lower panic attacks while underwater.

[snappit]

Fascinating audio interview with a Belgian diver who worked with the British divers to find the boys. He describes that when they first dived they thought it was too dangerous and madness to continue so they decided not to go any further. When they got back they found that the Thai SEALS were going to continue anyway. They realised that the SEALS did not have the skills, or proper cave diving equipment so they decided to go back in again and then found the boys alive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-44822177/thai-cave-diver-relives-the-extraordinary-rescue

[NJ Stinks]

Fascinating audio interview with a Belgian diver who worked with the British divers to find the boys. He describes that when they first dived they thought it was too dangerous and madness to continue so they decided not to go any further. When they got back they found that the Thai SEALS were going to continue anyway. They realised that the SEALS did not have the skills, or proper cave diving equipment so they decided to go back in again and then found the boys alive.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-44822177/thai-cave-diver-relives-the-extraordinary-rescue

WOW!

Thanks for the link.

[Tom]

Science Channel has an hour long program about covering the whole deal.
Must see TV :ThmbUp:


That way out with the kids was far worse than we knew.
Those were brave and dedicated men who saved them.
The world owes them all.

[snappit]

Agree with this. I'm sure we'll get documentaries over here but just seeing videos with interviews of the divers shows the task they had. The amazing thing is how humble and modest they all. Oddly the divers that found them, one comes from my home city of Bristol and the other comes from the city I live in now, Coventry. This fills me with pride and I'm sure the same feeling is felt by many people across the world. Also, shows what can be achieved when people from around the world come together in a common cause. Incredible people.

[snappit]

Superb documentary from ABC in Australia. Mainly interviews with the rescuers telling the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-esjQLvsgTs