Well I will never place a bet at DEL again.....

[cutchemist42]

What a joke....

[PaceAdvantage]

I will bet anywhere I sense value. And I mean ANYWHERE.

[Dave Schwartz]

What a joke....

Why?

[Mulerider]

Why?

I'm just guessing it's because Delaware decided to impose no disciplinary action against the assistant starter that hit a horse in the head multiple times.

[cj]

I'm just guessing it's because Delaware decided to impose no disciplinary action against the assistant starter that hit a horse in the head multiple times.

Holy crap, seriously?

[Mulerider]

Holy crap, seriously?

Yes, it's on Bloodhorse and Paulick this morning.

[horses4courses]

Holy crap, seriously?

https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2018/06/26/delaware-park-starter-who-hit-horse-allowed-return-work/733724002/

[MadVindication]

Wow he is actually punching the horse in the side of the head hard. No need for harsh punishment unless it happens again but to not even suspend for longer that just seems really non-chalant about mistreatment of the horse.

There's no way someone would get such a lenient response to that anywhere in Canada.

[PaceAdvantage]

That right there is total bullshit. That guy should have been immediately dismissed and investigated for possible criminal wrongdoing.

[MadVindication]

https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/No_discipline_for_Delaware_Park_starter_who_hit_ho rse_in_head_123#

" My 14(-year-)old daughter and I travel 50 minutes each weekend to feed Accolade his favorite snack, peeled red delicious apples and baby carrots. She was in tears watching our horse getting beaten over and over and over and over and over again. She didn't sleep Thursday night, as the image of the abuse replayed in her mind."

In a second statement, Fagan said Abel Castellano had indeed been contacted by Delaware Park officials, and that he had issued his initial words when "I was extremely upset over the incident."

"I understand that this man has worked for Delaware Park for some 20 years in an extremely dangerous job and a moment of frustration shouldn't ruin his life," Fagan added. "(Abel) informed me that he is the best and most experienced starter on the team."


It's nice to know that horse is loved.

[PaceAdvantage]

The best and most experienced starter on the team?

That makes it even WORSE.

[MadVindication]

That right there is total bullshit. That guy should have been immediately dismissed and investigated for possible criminal wrongdoing.

I'm glad that the man in question also received a compassionate response from Accolade's owner. I can't justify feeling compassion for the horse and not a person. He shouldn't have his life ruined but as someone who has worked there for 20 years he also has to be an example.

It's the people at the track most in the wrong, as the owner said in HRN article, they didn't declare the horse a non-starter or refund bettors. Because they were trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one would notice.

[clicknow]

That made me stick to my stomach.

The thought that someone like this is even allowed around horses is a tragedy.

When you blow your top like that, to the point where you become an abuser, I sincerely hope his family or friends will hasten him to a full psychological examination. That is true compassion.... Next time it could be worse. Stress, age, who knows....but "he ain't right".


The lack of punishment, consequences and fines for aggregious behaviors is mind-boggling.

[MadVindication]

When you blow your top like that, to the point where you become an abuser, I sincerely hope his family or friends will hasten him to a full psychological examination. That is true compassion


Completely agree.

[cutchemist42]

https://twitter.com/MarkBowers1/status/1007345078921244674

No action was taken....

[GMB@BP]

Probably not popular opinion but I guess I am jaded from my time on farms and the track, I think the punishment fit the over reaction from what everyone says is a very good starter.

I think the DRF article sheds a little more light.

It ended up a 8-day work suspension as it is, I have seen way worse, way more dangerous stuff from riders and yet they might even be asked to explain their actions.

[thaskalos]

Probably not popular opinion but I guess I am jaded from my time on farms and the track, I think the punishment fit the over reaction from what everyone says is a very good starter.

I think the DRF article sheds a little more light.

It ended up a 8-day work suspension as it is, I have seen way worse, way more dangerous stuff from riders and yet they might even be asked to explain their actions.

Very reassuring...:ThmbUp:

[thaskalos]

Probably not popular opinion but I guess I am jaded from my time on farms and the track, I think the punishment fit the over reaction...


If the horse's "overreaction" had caused the starter to actually hurt himself...then, what "action" do you feel that he would have been justified to take against the horse?

[PaceAdvantage]

Wait, I found the assistant starter handbook.

In it, on page 94, it says if a horse is freaking out in the starting gate, the best way to deal with it is to try and punch it as many times as you can in the face/head in order to put it into a semi-comatose state. That should be enough to calm the horse down in order to get the race off.

[GMB@BP]

If the horse's "overreaction" had caused the starter to actually hurt himself...then, what "action" do you feel that he would have been justified to take against the horse?

None of course, the starter was in the wrong.

Dealing with these animals is challenging and for a moment this guy lost his cool.

He was out of a paycheck 8 days.

My view is that is fair in this case, everyone stated he is a good employee who works a very dangerous job.

[Tom]

When you blow your top like that, to the point where you become an abuser, I sincerely hope his family or friends will hasten him to a full psychological examination.

I sincerely hope some "concerned" people meet him in the parking lot and demonstrate why hits to the head are not a good thing.

The man is trash - treat him as such.
Fire his arse and ban him from the grounds forever.
No mercy for scum like this guy.

[thaskalos]

If that was the "best starter" out there...then I would hate to see the WORST. :ThmbDown:

[Dave Schwartz]

Wait, I found the assistant starter handbook.

In it, on page 94, it says if a horse is freaking out in the starting gate, the best way to deal with it is to try and punch it as many times as you can in the face/head in order to put it into a semi-comatose state. That should be enough to calm the horse down in order to get the race off.

:lol::lol:

Of course, were I the horse's owner, I'd be screaming for his head. I'd really like to see this done to a horse trained by somebody like Baffert.

Do you suppose that an 8-day suspension would be the end of it?

[castaway01]

Probably not popular opinion but I guess I am jaded from my time on farms and the track, I think the punishment fit the over reaction from what everyone says is a very good starter.

I think the DRF article sheds a little more light.

It ended up a 8-day work suspension as it is, I have seen way worse, way more dangerous stuff from riders and yet they might even be asked to explain their actions.

You've seen a rider, on camera, punch a horse in the head full force a half-dozen times? Not that if you had seen it it would justify the starter acting insane here, but how do you just excuse this as business as usual?

He should be fired, that's all. So he's been doing the job for 20 years? It appears he can't handle the pressure anymore. I'm sure someone else would like the chance.

[PaceAdvantage]

Horse can't run away...can't turn around and fight back...

As Al Pacino once said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_xf7K0C1k

[lex]

Of course this is the first time this guy punched a horse as far as we know.

If you took your dog to the groomer and it got punched in the face would you take it back because it's one of the best groomers ever?

Too bad the only ones that seem to care are the bettors and fans. If I owned a horse he wouldn't be in the gate with that guy.

Horse racing seems to go out of its way to make it hard to support.

[Afleet]

:lol::lol:

Of course, were I the horse's owner, I'd be screaming for his head. I'd really like to see this done to a horse trained by somebody like Baffert.

Do you suppose that an 8-day suspension would be the end of it?

Has any of Bafferts horses died in his care?

[Elliott Sidewater]

Just read about this incident today. Two thoughts: 1. if I owned the horse that the assistant starter hit, I would not have taken it well, and probably would have done or said something that would get me fined or suspended. 2. Different strokes for different folks.....isn't this the same track that gave Juan Vazquez a 60 day vacation for slugging Trevor McCarthy?

But the assistant starter gets nothing; why should anyone still following racing be surprised when 'making it up as we go' is the new normal?

Maybe it's time for a #me too movement for race horses, who until now have only the glimmering memory of Mr. Ed as a spokesman for the breed.

OK, now I'm over it, so when is first post for the Wednesday card?:popcorn:

[turfnsport]

I have written about this incident and somewhat surprised by some of the people defending his actions.

I have been doing this for a very long time and have run a few horses at Delaware Park back in the day.

This incident was disgusting. I have seen horses act up in the gate thousands of times. This was the first time I can recall something like this.

I saw not one, not two, not three but FOUR punches. The he slammed the horse's head against the gate.

I think I could have lived with a statement like "Hey we have suspended this guy for eight days without pay already, put him in anger management, he has made an apology to the connections and his fellow workers and he is coming back to work. "

Instead we get this:
“The Delaware Thoroughbred Racing Commission (DTRC) has advised Delaware Park that the Stewards have completed a thorough investigation of the incident that occurred in the starting gate before the fifth race at the racetrack on Thursday, June 14th and that no disciplinary action will be taken against the Assistant Starter. Based upon this determination, the Assistant Starter, who has been on suspension since the incident occurred, will be allowed to return to his position.”

Here is a response from Vic Stauffer to one of my tweets:

"Thought the situation was handled properly by both the track and the Delaware Commission. They followed due process and made a ruling. Didn't saying anything about appropriateness. I did say, given the TOTALITY of the entire situation I agree with the decision #cmonmikeyouknowme"

Ugh.

[PaceAdvantage]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/248/081/7d1.jpg

[biggestal99]

Glad my wife didnt see this. she's freaks when they "ear" a horse.

she hates mistreatment of animals. this is glaring example.

Allan

[clicknow]

I have written about this incident and somewhat surprised by some of the people defending his actions.


It's mind-boggling how anyone can defend this behavior.

OTOH, maybe it's attitudes like that which continue the cycle that makes horse racing a sport that fewer and fewer people want to get involved in.

He should be fired, that's all. So he's been doing the job for 20 years? It appears he can't handle the pressure anymore.

This.

Nobody who did what he did to a horse should be allowed to continue to be around horses.

[Fager Fan]

That right there is total bullshit. That guy should have been immediately dismissed and investigated for possible criminal wrongdoing.

Ok, big eyeroll here. Good luck with pressing criminal charges against someone for slapping a horse in the face. Geez, people.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ok, big eyeroll here. Good luck with pressing criminal charges against someone for slapping a horse in the face. Geez, people.#nicetrollingdude

[JustRalph]

John Kerry is pissed

[Benni]

If the assistant starter has been working for the past 20 years and has a good reputation, why, this one time, did he overreact? It was violent, it was ugly, I feel the penalty should have been more than just a suspension and a slap on the hand. Yet I'm kind of on the fence in regards to firing him. Find him a new position that doesn't require the direct handling of horses.

Accolade has had eight starts. Does he always act up in the gate? I don't know. However there is never, ever, any excuse whatsoever as to punch any horse and abuse him/her. I have to wonder, in his future races, will he now approach the gate with anxiety and/or fear remembering...that's a bad place, that's a painful place. It's bad enough some horses get claustrophobic in that tiny space but then to have been beaten in the head that's a frightening experience. I wonder how it will affect him going forward.

So very sad in all ways.

[thespaah]

Another black mark on our sport

[Franco Santiago]

:lol::lol:

Of course, were I the horse's owner, I'd be screaming for his head. I'd really like to see this done to a horse trained by somebody like Baffert.

Do you suppose that an 8-day suspension would be the end of it?


Verrry good point. Or a horse owned by the Ramseys.


This is the kind of thing that gives our game a, uhmmmm....a black eye.

[Tom]

And yet when the people who run this S***hole track get interviewed by the racing press, it will never be mentioned. Jstu more of the SOSO crap, like what's was it like to win a race? What's your favorite color....

[Fager Fan]

#nicetrollingdude

You posted a stupid comment. Criminal charges? They couldn’t get more than probation for two lowlifes who slit a dog’s throat on Snapchat video, and you think a DA is going to go after an asst starter for this action? And it’d be a criminal charge?

[PaceAdvantage]

You posted a stupid comment. Criminal charges? They couldn’t get more than probation for two lowlifes who slit a dog’s throat on Snapchat video, and you think a DA is going to go after an asst starter for this action? And it’d be a criminal charge?I said investigated for criminal charges.

But then again, you said he SLAPPED the horse...who's stupid again?

[Tom]

They made a big deal over Jack the Ripper "poking" ladies at night. :rolleyes:

[FakeNameChanged]

Does anybody think this is first time incident with this starter? This was the maybe the first one that got recorded for everyone to see.

[Jeff P]

Imo, what the Delaware Park asst starter did is inexcusable.

A grown man whose chosen profession involves interacting with and gaining the trust of horses, ought to know better.

My gut reaction after watching the video? Pretty much the same as seeing a grown man punching out a woman or a child.

The 8 day suspension rubber stamped by the stewards?

Imo, equally inexcusable.



-jp

.

[jimmyb]

Pulling ears, yanking tails and whipping are not abuse?

[thaskalos]

Imo, what the Delaware Park asst starter did is inexcusable.

A grown man whose chosen profession involves interacting with and gaining the trust of horses, ought to know better.

My gut reaction after watching the video? Pretty much the same as seeing a grown man punching out a woman or a child.

The 8 day suspension rubber stamped by the stewards?

Imo, equally inexcusable.



-jp

.

And yet...both Nick (the Sarge) Hines and Vic Stauffer thought that it was no big deal...when the incident was brought to their attention. So...I guess there are TWO ways of looking at that video. :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

Pulling ears, yanking tails and whipping are not abuse?No, they are not. Just like putting a bit in the mouth to control a horse isn't abuse.

But punching a horse repeatedly in the head/face...maybe he misses by an inch and punches the horse square in the eye and blinds it?

Far different from pulling an ear or whipping on the flank or holding a tail (have never really seen a starter that I can remember YANKING a tail)...all three of which have pretty much zero chance of doing any damage.

As opposed to repeated punches to the face and head, where one can do permanent damage to the eye, lips, teeth...I will rule out concussion although who knows...maybe he hits in just the right spot to cause a concussion...

I feel stupid just for having to type all of this. It should be obvious.

[jimmyb]

No, they are not. Just like putting a bit in the mouth to control a horse isn't abuse.

But punching a horse repeatedly in the head/face...maybe he misses by an inch and punches the horse square in the eye and blinds it?

Far different from pulling an ear or whipping on the flank or holding a tail (have never really seen a starter that I can remember YANKING a tail)...all three of which have pretty much zero chance of doing any damage.

As opposed to repeated punches to the face and head, where one can do permanent damage to the eye, lips, teeth...I will rule out concussion although who knows...maybe he hits in just the right spot to cause a concussion...

I feel stupid just for having to type all of this. It should be obvious.
I'll pull your ears and whip your ass, then tell me how you feel. I feel stupid having to type this, it should be obvious.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'll pull your ears and whip your ass, then tell me how you feel. I feel stupid having to type this, it should be obvious.So then you're against breaking a horse in general.

How about I put a bit in your mouth and rip it apart with my ham-handed style of riding? Right Jimmy?

[jimmyb]

So then you're against breaking a horse in general.

How about I put a bit in your mouth and rip it apart with my ham-handed style of riding? Right Jimmy?
More playing the Devils Advocate here. Sometimes you have to hit a jackass on the head with a two by four to get it's attention.

You're free to put a bit in my mouth, but suppression of thought is unlike you.

[turfnsport]

I'll pull your ears and whip your ass, then tell me how you feel.




How about I put a bit in your mouth and rip it apart with my ham-handed style of riding?

.

You're free to put a bit in my mouth

This thread has taken an odd turn.

[v j stauffer]

And yet...both Nick (the Sarge) Hines and Vic Stauffer thought that it was no big deal...when the incident was brought to their attention. So...I guess there are TWO ways of looking at that video. :rolleyes:

I didn't say it was no big deal.

What I did say was I thought the process of addressing the incident was handled properly.

He was immediately suspended pending a review and hearing.

That hearing was conducted before the Delaware Racing Commission, Delaware Park Stewards and a representative of the State office of animal cruelty.

Also heard at the hearing were the GM of the racetrack. As well as the owner and trainer of the horse.

IMO due process had been properly supported and I respected the decision that was made.

I also made it VERY clear that I do not condone abuse of any animal by any one at any time.

I didn't see or hear anything the Sarge said. But would be very interested to hear his take. He was a trainer on the So. Cal circuit for over 20 years.

If anyone can post what he said it would be appreciated.

[GMB@BP]

I don't want to freak people out but the discipline of these race horses has a pretty broad spectrum, this is definitely no where near the top of the spectrum from my personal witness and experience, which wasnt even that long on the track, sales and farms.

If we fired everyone for getting after horses at this level of physicality then I think there would be many jobs available.

Guy was in the wrong as he crossed the line no doubt, and the days served without pay seems appropriate.

[PaceAdvantage]

I don't want to freak people out but the discipline of these race horses has a pretty broad spectrum, this is definitely no where near the top of the spectrum from my personal witness and experience, which wasnt even that long on the track, sales and farms.

If we fired everyone for getting after horses at this level of physicality then I think there would be many jobs available.

Guy was in the wrong as he crossed the line no doubt, and the days served without pay seems appropriate.There are a LOT of horse people on this board. You know, people who actually are AROUND racehorses quite a bit.

I would be shocked if any of those horse people were to say to me...yup...sometimes you have to punch these ****ers in the head 5-6 times in order to get them to pay attention.

I've been around racehorses. I've been around people who have been around racehorses. Been around people who were training some pretty unruly TBreds who had just come off the track.

Nobody would ever dream of punching a horse in the face, HARD, 5-6 times for ANY reason.

[thaskalos]

I didn't say it was no big deal.

What I did say was I thought the process of addressing the incident was handled properly.

He was immediately suspended pending a review and hearing.

That hearing was conducted before the Delaware Racing Commission, Delaware Park Stewards and a representative of the State office of animal cruelty.

Also heard at the hearing were the GM of the racetrack. As well as the owner and trainer of the horse.

IMO due process had been properly supported and I respected the decision that was made.

I also made it VERY clear that I do not condone abuse of any animal by any one at any time.

I didn't see or hear anything the Sarge said. But would be very interested to hear his take. He was a trainer on the So. Cal circuit for over 20 years.

If anyone can post what he said it would be appreciated.

I don't know how to post what the Sarge said...but I happened to be listening to him when he said it. And what he said was that the assistant starter took an understandable approach to the horse's restlessness problem...given the "danger" element that the starting crew is faced with in the performance of their duties. But I have seen this restlessness problem many times before...without that particular human reaction. That was a shameless exhibition, IMO...and it was worse that it took place out in the open. One can only wonder what happens during the "schooling" of these horses...when the camera isn't rolling.

[v j stauffer]

There are a LOT of horse people on this board. You know, people who actually are AROUND racehorses quite a bit.

I would be shocked if any of those horse people were to say to me...yup...sometimes you have to punch these ****ers in the head 5-6 times in order to get them to pay attention.

I've been around racehorses. I've been around people who have been around racehorses. Been around people who were training some pretty unruly TBreds who had just come off the track.

Nobody would ever dream of punching a horse in the face, HARD, 5-6 times for ANY reason.

In response. Of all the people on this board who have, like myself, been around horses quite a bit. Or even longer than that.

The starting gate is an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS place.

Jockeys, assistants and horses have all DIED as a result of incidents in the starting gate.

[v j stauffer]

I don't know how to post what the Sarge said...but I happened to be listening to him when he said it. And what he said was that the assistant starter took an understandable approach to the horse's restlessness problem...given the "danger" element that the starting crew is faced with in the performance of their duties. But I have seen this restlessness problem many times before...without that particular human reaction. That was a shameless exhibition, IMO...and it was worse that it took place out in the open. One can only wonder what happens during the "schooling" of these horses...when the camera isn't rolling.

The majority of racing fans agree with you.

The Commission, Stewards and Animal Cruelty person exonerated the assistant of any other sanctions except the days he missed while awaiting his hearing.

What do you make of the fact the owner and trainer of the horse have stated they didn't have a problem with the assistant's actions?

[thaskalos]

In response. Of all the people on this board who have, like myself, been around horses quite a bit. Or even longer than that.

The starting gate is an EXTREMELY DANGEROUS place.

Jockeys, assistants and horses have all DIED as a result of incidents in the starting gate.

Has it been proven that the possibility of a life-threatening starting-gate accident LESSENS if the starting-crew member punches the restless horse a few times on the side of the head?

[thaskalos]

The majority of racing fans agree with you.

The Commission, Stewards and Animal Cruelty person exonerated the assistant of any other sanctions except the days he missed while awaiting his hearing.

What do you make of the fact the owner and trainer of the horse have stated they didn't have a problem with the assistant's actions?

As I said before...it makes me shake my head at the thought of what other "schooling techniques" the owners and the trainers of these horses have 'no problem with'...away from the camera's prying eye. Clearly...this is no sport for the squeamish.

[GMB@BP]

There are a LOT of horse people on this board. You know, people who actually are AROUND racehorses quite a bit.

I would be shocked if any of those horse people were to say to me...yup...sometimes you have to punch these ****ers in the head 5-6 times in order to get them to pay attention.

I've been around racehorses. I've been around people who have been around racehorses. Been around people who were training some pretty unruly TBreds who had just come off the track.

Nobody would ever dream of punching a horse in the face, HARD, 5-6 times for ANY reason.

I had one guy, young farm manager at the time, maybe 20's, get kicked by this weanling maybe approaching yearling.

He didnt punch him, he kicked him in the belly/balls a few times.

He now is head of one of the larger farms in Ky. I was very young and new to the game, I thought it was rough but the other guys who were more generational just kinda took it as it is what it is.

I will say, seemed to me they were a bit rougher on the farms than on the tracks.

Though I can recall a incident similar at the Keeneland July sales (they used to have that) where a horse got real stupid walking and man, they let that horse have it when he got back to the stall.

I dont agree with any of it, just my personal experience. You can call me a liar, dont really care.

[thaskalos]

I had one guy, young farm manager at the time, maybe 20's, get kicked by this weanling maybe approaching yearling.

He didnt punch him, he kicked him in the belly/balls a few times.

He now is head of one of the larger farms in Ky. I was very young and new to the game, I thought it was rough but the other guys who were more generational just kinda took it as it is what it is.

I will say, seemed to me they were a bit rougher on the farms than on the tracks.

Though I can recall a incident similar at the Keeneland July sales (they used to have that) where a horse got real stupid walking and man, they let that horse have it when he got back to the stall.

I dont agree with any of it, just my personal experience. You can call me a liar, dont really care.

Yup...this definitely isn't a sport for the squeamish.

[v j stauffer]

Has it been proven that the possibility of a life-threatening starting-gate accident LESSENS if the starting-crew member punches the restless horse a few times on the side of the head?

It is believed that assistant starters with 20 years experience who are respected and appreciated by jockey's & horsemen LESSENS the danger of catastrophic injuries.

[v j stauffer]

As I said before...it makes me shake my head at the thought of what other "schooling techniques" the owners and the trainers of these horses have 'no problem with'...away from the camera's prying eye. Clearly...this is no sport for the squeamish.

I've been around gate schooling hundreds of times. These sessions can often times be even more dangerous than the starts in the afternoon.

In my 45 years of observing this work I have NEVER witnessed animal abuse in any shape form or manner.

I have seen multiple instances and examples of just how dangerous "schooling" can be in the form of horrible injuries to horses, exercise riders and assistants.

However the work goes on so the bettors can be afforded the cleanest and fairest possible starts to the races in the afternoon.

[cj]

I've been around gate schooling hundreds of times. These sessions can often times be even more dangerous than the starts in the afternoon.

In my 45 years of observing this work I have NEVER witnessed animal abuse in any shape form or manner.

I have seen multiple instances and examples of just how dangerous "schooling" can be in the form of horrible injuries to horses, exercise riders and assistants.

However the work goes on so the bettors can be afforded the cleanest and fairest possible starts to the races in the afternoon.

Off topic so apologies in advance, but sure seems like in 2018 we could develop a safer starting gate than the current model.

[thaskalos]

I've been around gate schooling hundreds of times. These sessions can often times be even more dangerous than the starts in the afternoon.

In my 45 years of observing this work I have NEVER witnessed animal abuse in any shape form or manner.

I have seen multiple instances and examples of just how dangerous "schooling" can be in the form of horrible injuries to horses, exercise riders and assistants.

However the work goes on so the bettors can be afforded the cleanest and fairest possible starts to the races in the afternoon.

I believe you...but after reading post #60 of this thread, am I forgiven for getting a little queasy in the stomach area? Look...I've been a horseplayer for almost as long as you've been...and I have no delusions about the "realities" of the sport, in front or BEHIND the scenes. It's a cruel sport...and these horses are bred solely as "money-making mechanisms". But when we see a sorry spectacle such as this one here, the stark reality of the game slaps us right in the face...and a sour taste forms in our mouth. How could it be otherwise?

[v j stauffer]

I believe you...but after reading post #60 of this thread, am I forgiven for getting a little queasy in the stomach area? Look...I've been a horseplayer for almost as long as you've been...and I have no delusions about the "realities" of the sport, in front or BEHIND the scenes. It's a cruel sport...and these horses are bred solely as a "money-making mechanisms". But when we see a sorry spectacle such as this, the stark reality of the game slaps us right in the face...and a sour taste forms in our mouth. How could it be otherwise?

I've NEVER seen a horse that was being broke kicked in the balls. It would take a very foolish version of Bruce Lee to attempt such a thing. It could also prove to be very damaging to a young horse that's supposedly being readied for a career at the races.

The great preponderance of people who work with race horse's do so because of a love of the animal. It certainly isn't for glory or monetary gain.

Are there people who cross the line and mistreat the animals? Yes. It happens. But the backstretch has a very strong ethic of self policing and those miscreants are always weeded out very quickly.

[v j stauffer]

Off topic so apologies in advance, but sure seems like in 2018 we could develop a safer starting gate than the current model.

I know it's been on the mind of racing administrators for quite some time. Absent some sort of additional padding, which has been looked into, I don't see what could be done.

The starting gate is and unfortunately will always be extremely dangerous.

Talented people work on schooling every day.

[thaskalos]

I've NEVER seen a horse that was being broke kicked in the balls. It would take a very foolish version of Bruce Lee to attempt such a thing. It could also prove to be very damaging to a young horse that's supposedly being readied for a career at the races.

The great preponderance of people who work with race horse's do so because of a love of the animal. It certainly isn't for glory or monetary gain.

Are there people who cross the line and mistreat the animals? Yes. It happens. But the backstretch has a very strong ethic of self policing and those miscreants are always weeded out very quickly.

That's nice to hear...because we horseplayers have a love for these animals too. WE haven't come to this game strictly for the "monetary gain" either. :ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

That's nice to hear...because we horseplayers have a love for these animals too. WE haven't come to this game strictly for the "monetary gain" either. :ThmbUp:

Of course

[v j stauffer]

That's nice to hear...because we horseplayers have a love for these animals too. WE haven't come to this game strictly for the "monetary gain" either. :ThmbUp:

I prove everyday I'm not in it for monetary gain.:rolleyes:

[chiguy]

There is a different style which I had seen on some racing from NZ. I guess the jocks there are saying they are not better. They are an old style from what this article states. I would think the top half of the gate could be made of something other than steel. Today's starting gates look dangerous before you put a horse in them.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/74668745/another-racing-starting-gates-fiasco--at-avondale-again

[thaskalos]

I prove everyday I'm not in it for monetary gain.:rolleyes:

You and I both.

[Fager Fan]

I believe you...but after reading post #60 of this thread, am I forgiven for getting a little queasy in the stomach area? Look...I've been a horseplayer for almost as long as you've been...and I have no delusions about the "realities" of the sport, in front or BEHIND the scenes. It's a cruel sport...and these horses are bred solely as "money-making mechanisms". But when we see a sorry spectacle such as this one here, the stark reality of the game slaps us right in the face...and a sour taste forms in our mouth. How could it be otherwise?

Respectfully, I think you’re not grasping the reality of dealing with horses. Particularly high-strung horses. What you might look at as shocking may ultimately save that horse’s life. Not just human’s lives, but the horse’s.

If the horse is not taught to respect humans, that they are subservient to them, the horse can very easily become dangerous. The dangerous horse becomes a truly mistreated horse, or one that ends up with a bad fate.

A horse turns its rear to you when you walk in the stall. You better smack that ass and get him turned around instead of allowing an aggressive action that was precipitating a kick that could kill you.

A horse doesn’t respect your space and will walk over you. You better push that horse off you, or even carry a crop or something to ward him off until he understands to respect your space.

There are plenty of times where man-handling a horse is entirely appropriate and ultimately teaches the horse manners and makes him and the humans around him safe. You know abuse when you see it, but it’s difficult to qualify abuse in words unless you are talking extremes. No one advises hitting a horse in the face yet probably everyone has popped the nose of a horse who bit them.

What no one in this thread has pointed out is that this horse nearly pulled the assistant down on his head, then almost bucked the rider off. A few hard jerks on the halter is probably the normal reaction. This guy lost his cool with the horse and struck him open-handed 4 times on the side of his face. No one who deals with horses wouldn’t acknowledge that he lost his cool, but they also would understand it and not think it deserving of losing a job he’s apparently done well at for many years.

[v j stauffer]

Respectfully, I think you’re not grasping the reality of dealing with horses. Particularly high-strung horses. What you might look at as shocking may ultimately save that horse’s life. Not just human’s lives, but the horse’s.

If the horse is not taught to respect humans, that they are subservient to them, the horse can very easily become dangerous. The dangerous horse becomes a truly mistreated horse, or one that ends up with a bad fate.

A horse turns its rear to you when you walk in the stall. You better smack that ass and get him turned around instead of allowing an aggressive action that was precipitating a kick that could kill you.

A horse doesn’t respect your space and will walk over you. You better push that horse off you, or even carry a crop or something to ward him off until he understands to respect your space.

There are plenty of times where man-handling a horse is entirely appropriate and ultimately teaches the horse manners and makes him and the humans around him safe. You know abuse when you see it, but it’s difficult to qualify abuse in words unless you are talking extremes. No one advises hitting a horse in the face yet probably everyone has popped the nose of a horse who bit them.

What no one in this thread has pointed out is that this horse nearly pulled the assistant down on his head, then almost bucked the rider off. A few hard jerks on the halter is probably the normal reaction. This guy lost his cool with the horse and struck him open-handed 4 times on the side of his face. No one who deals with horses wouldn’t acknowledge that he lost his cool, but they also would understand it and not think it deserving of losing a job he’s apparently done well at for many years.

BRILLIANT POST:ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey, then why not GO ALL THE WAY.

Bring a pistol into the starting gate and blow the ****ing horse's brains out if it acts up.

After all, it's dangerous in there.

Are you people for ****ing real?

Someone should forward that video to PETA.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm sorry for that last reply.

I forgot to look at my "Assistant Starter's Handbook," where on page 94, once again, as I read the other day (but forgot - probably due to that punch in the head I took):

"If a horse becomes unruly in the starting gate, the recommended approach is to punch the horse 5-6 times in the face and head, thereby inducing momentary confusion, dizziness, and hopefully a semi-comatose state, which will enable you to regain control and get the race underway."

I mean, it's right there on page 94!

Who knew?

Again, sorry for my last reply.

PS. Bettors LOVE seeing their horse punched in the head a few times right before the race. It really gets the horse's juices flowing and makes them even more competitive! :ThmbUp:

I know Vic loves it when they punch his selections squaw in the jaw. Maybe bloody up the lip a little to make the horse appear even tougher to the other competitors in the race. "I'm not ****ing with that one...he can really take a punch!"

[v j stauffer]

Hey, then why not GO ALL THE WAY.

Bring a pistol into the starting gate and blow the ****ing horse's brains out if it acts up.

After all, it's dangerous in there.

Are you people for ****ing real?

Someone should forward that video to PETA.

There is a strict protocol in a strict order for the handling of unruly horses in this type incident.

1) Protect the Jockey

2) Protect yourself and other assistant starters

3) Protect the horse

In this case none of the three were injured.

[PaceAdvantage]

There is a strict protocol in a strict order for the handling of unruly horses in this type incident.

1) Protect the Jockey

2) Protect yourself and other assistant starters

3) Protect the horse

In this case none of the three were injured.Get the hell outta here.

Never in my 31 years of watching races have I **EVER** seen that happen, NO MATTER how unruly the horse gets. NOT ONE SINGLE TIME.

So don't try and tell me this is standard procedure.

And watch the video again, That horse wasn't doing anything lots of horses do every single day in the gate. In fact, the horse was already SETTLED down BEFORE the guy started punching him. The incident was OVER. He wasn't trying to SAVE anybody.

The lengths people are going to normalize what happened is incredible to me.

Shocking, actually.

[v j stauffer]

Get the hell outta here.

Never in my 31 years of watching races have I **EVER** seen that happen, NO MATTER how unruly the horse gets. NOT ONE SINGLE TIME.

So don't try and tell me this is standard procedure.

And watch the video again, That horse wasn't doing anything lots of horses do every single day in the gate.

The lengths people are going to normalize what happened is incredible to me.

Shocking, actually.

I didn't say anything about this incident being "standard" procedure.

What I said is in ANY dangerous starting gate situation.

The rule is protect the jockey 1st. Protect yourself and your co-workers 2nd. Protect the horse 3rd.

Fortunately for all involved no-one was injured.

[v j stauffer]

Get the hell outta here.

Never in my 31 years of watching races have I **EVER** seen that happen, NO MATTER how unruly the horse gets. NOT ONE SINGLE TIME.

So don't try and tell me this is standard procedure.

And watch the video again, That horse wasn't doing anything lots of horses do every single day in the gate. In fact, the horse was already SETTLED down BEFORE the guy started punching him. The incident was OVER. He wasn't trying to SAVE anybody.

The lengths people are going to normalize what happened is incredible to me.

Shocking, actually.

What does it mean to you that both the owner and trainer of the horse had no problem with the actions of the assistant starter?

[turfnsport]

What do you make of the fact the owner and trainer of the horse have stated they didn't have a problem with the assistant's actions?

Vic, for someone with so much "experience" in this industry, your responses in this thread make me want to ****ing puke.

Here are the owners two statements.

“To whom it may concern,

As the owner of ACCOLADE, the 3yr old gelding that was beaten in the head by the assistant starter on Thursday in the gate, I am disgusted at what I witnessed. I am bothered by the fact that the head starter after witnessing this attack didn’t pull my horse from the race or at the very least make him a non starter for all the people that had wagered on him. The time, effort and patience needed to have your horse ready to compete at a top level on a specific day and race is difficult, not to mention expensive. The one factor that people can’t handicap, is an employee of Delaware Park taking his frustrations out on your horse. I am happy to see the outrage and indignation that this matter has received on social media. My 14 yr old daughter and I travel 50 minutes each weekend to feed Accolade his favorite snack, peeled red delicious apples and baby carrots. She was in tears watching our horse getting beaten over and over and over and over and over again. She didn’t sleep Thursday night, as the image of the abuse replayed in her mind.

I am surprised that no representative from Delaware Park had the decency to reach out to either Able Castellano (my trainer) or myself. If this type of behavior is routine in the racing business, then I must rethink my participation in the sport of kings. I am not a litigious person, but the lack of empathy on the behalf of Delaware Park is intolerable.

Sincerely,

Glenn A. Fagan”

However, Fagan released another statement where he changed his tune:

When I made my statement to you I was extremely upset over the incident that occurred at Delaware Park on Thursday. My trainer, Abel Castellano had not informed me that upper management, John Mooney, had not only reached out to him, but had sent the State Veterinarian to check on the welfare of Accolade as well. Though I personally have not heard anything from Delaware Park, I’m glad to know that they were concerned for the safety of my horse.

Abel had also informed me that the assistant starter involved in the incident, someone that he had known well and respected, had apologized to him as well. I understand that this man has worked for Delaware Park for some 20 years in an extremely dangerous job and a moment of frustration shouldn’t ruin his life. Able informed me that he is the best and most experienced starter on the team.

My daughter and I, went on our Saturday morning pilgrimage to visit with Accolade yesterday to feed him his beloved Apples and carrots. He seems to be in good spirits and we hope that he will be able to compete in the near future.

[PaceAdvantage]

I didn't say anything about this incident being "standard" procedure.

What I said is in ANY dangerous starting gate situation.

The rule is protect the jockey 1st. Protect yourself and your co-workers 2nd. Protect the horse 3rd.

Fortunately for all involved no-one was injured.So you don't have a problem with the fact that the asst starter didn't begin punching the horse until AFTER the horse was settled again? Was that a prophylactic move against any further unruliness? Why did he punch the horse after and not during the moments when the horse was acting up?

Oh, that's right. He couldn't punch him WHILE he was acting up because he was trying to keep his balance and keep the horse from flipping...in other words, DOING HIS JOB and trying to protect himself and the jockey.

He punched the horse AFTER the horse was settled because why? He wanted to teach the horse a lesson? I guess that's how he protected himself and the jockey? By preventing a future incident?

"This will teach him....BAM...BAM...BAM BAM...BAM"

[thaskalos]

What does it mean to you that both the owner and trainer of the horse had no problem with the actions of the assistant starter?

I was at the mall the other day...and witnessed a parent who was beating up her little kid in front of the gathered crowd. The parent obviously had no problem with the act that she was committing...but did this mean that the rest of the crowd wasn't repulsed by the parent's violent outburst?

[thaskalos]

So you don't have a problem with the fact that the asst starter didn't begin punching the horse until AFTER the horse was settled again? Was that a prophylactic move against any further unruliness? Why did he punch the horse after and not during the moments when the horse was acting up?

Oh, that's right. He couldn't punch him WHILE he was acting up because he was trying to keep his balance and keep the horse from flipping...in other words, DOING HIS JOB and trying to protect himself and the jockey.

He punched the horse AFTER the horse was settled because why? He wanted to teach the horse a lesson? I guess that's how he protected himself and the jockey? By preventing a future incident?

"This will teach him....BAM...BAM...BAM BAM...BAM"

BRILLIANT POST! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[v j stauffer]

In response to the last three posts.

1st and most important by far.

I THINK ANIMAL ABUSE BY ANY PERSON ON ANY ANIMAL IS REPREHENSIBLE AND INTOLERABLE

I've commented on the process of the investigation. Not my personal feelings about what happened.

I've tried to lend insight into the protocol in such instances based on my experiences.

I feel terrible this incident took place.

I am very happy nobody was hurt.

Period.

[PaceAdvantage]

Understood. No further questions.

[clicknow]

Also heard at the hearing were the GM of the racetrack. As well as the owner and trainer of the horse.

IMO due process had been properly supported and I respected the decision that was made.

"Due process" may have been supported, but ethical behavior was not. :ThmbDown:

If it's okay w/the GM and the owner and trainer, so what? Then they are all guilty of condoning horse abuse. Sounds like they relied on rationalizations to justify misconduct and none of them seem to know where the boundary line is or should be.

And, if that is the case, they shouldn't be working with live animals.

Intelligent, responsible, compassionate leadership doesn't make decisions like this.

Repeatedly punching a horse in the face oversteps the boundaries of what any rational person would consider okay. And any protocol that minimizes this kind of abuse is BS. Keeping the employee because "he was fine in the past"?

It also leaves everyone to wonder what is being done to these horses behind closed doors, when nobody is looking. (god help us.)

A strict ethics policy is the cornerstone for any industry that wants to maintain a good reputation.

[thaskalos]

"The Sport of Kings"...:rolleyes:

[v j stauffer]

"Due process" may have been supported, but ethical behavior was not. :ThmbDown:

If it's okay w/the GM and the owner and trainer, so what? Then they are all guilty of condoning horse abuse. Sounds like they relied on rationalizations to justify misconduct and none of them seem to know where the boundary line is or should be.

Intelligent, responsible, compassionate leadership doesn't make decisions like this.

Repeatedly punching a horse in the face oversteps the boundaries of what any rational person would consider okay. And any protocol that minimizes this kind of abuse is BS.

It also leaves everyone to wonder what is being done to these horses behind closed doors, when nobody is looking. (god help us.)

A strict ethics policy is the cornerstone for any industry that wants to maintain a good reputation.

I don't have any dispute with anything you've written here. Not sure why you felt a need to quote me then write it?

[clicknow]

I don't have any dispute with anything you've written here. Not sure why you felt a need to quote me then write it?

I quoted you because you introduced the concept of "due process" and observed how it was carried out.

I made no personal attacks on you nor said you condoned what the starter did.

I am merely pointing out that due process means jack sometimes. There will always be those who exploit due process and protocol for their own ends. And IMHO, that is what happened here w/the trainer, owner, officials and the GM.

[lex]

What does it mean to you that both the owner and trainer of the horse had no problem with the actions of the assistant starter?

Not sure who the connections are in this case but there are plenty of garbage owners and trainers out there so it doesn't mean much.

Can't believe there's even a debate on a horse getting punched in the face multiple times.

[Fager Fan]

No, they are not. Just like putting a bit in the mouth to control a horse isn't abuse.

But punching a horse repeatedly in the head/face...maybe he misses by an inch and punches the horse square in the eye and blinds it?

Far different from pulling an ear or whipping on the flank or holding a tail (have never really seen a starter that I can remember YANKING a tail)...all three of which have pretty much zero chance of doing any damage.

As opposed to repeated punches to the face and head, where one can do permanent damage to the eye, lips, teeth...I will rule out concussion although who knows...maybe he hits in just the right spot to cause a concussion...

I feel stupid just for having to type all of this. It should be obvious.

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.

[Mulerider]

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.


Ok, forgive a stupid question. Are twitches ever used in these situations, or is it presumed the visuals would be too negative?

[Fager Fan]

Ok, forgive a stupid question. Are twitches ever used in these situations, or is it presumed the visuals would be too negative?

Used in the gate? No, and wouldn't be helpful. There's too much involved with using a twitch to make them practical, plus that'd be completely disrupting to the horse's mind of what he's about to do in just a few seconds. Plus disengaging the twitch before breaking? No, a twitch couldn't be an option in the gate.

[Mulerider]

Used in the gate? No, and wouldn't be helpful. There's too much involved with using a twitch to make them practical, plus that'd be completely disrupting to the horse's mind of what he's about to do in just a few seconds. Plus disengaging the twitch before breaking? No, a twitch couldn't be an option in the gate.

Yes, obviously in the gate it would be problematic. I could see it used outside the gate, though. But that's where visuals might come into play even more. (By the way, have you seen the one-man, "EZ" twitches? Only way to go, IMO.)

Edit: let me expand on that a second. I have a horse that a couple of years ago developed an eye infection. The vet instructed me to apply ointment under the upper eyelid daily for 14 days. The horse wasn't fond of that treatment AT ALL, so I bought one of the EZ twitches. Piece of cake. Old chain twitch went into the trash.

[turfnsport]

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.

As someone who is clueless, I have seen literally thousands of horses act up in the gate, both in the mornings and in the afternoons. Yet I have never seen one punched in the face four times and had his head slammed into the gate.

Is this a new procedure I am just learning about now that we should all expect to see used more often in the future?

Us clueless guys would like to know.

[Fager Fan]

As someone who is clueless, I have seen literally thousands of horses act up in the gate, both in the mornings and in the afternoons. Yet I have never seen one punched in the face four times and had his head slammed into the gate.

Is this a new procedure I am just learning about now that we should all expect to see used more often in the future?

Us clueless guys would like to know.

When a guy says "punch" for an open-hand slap, then I call him disingenuous.

[turfnsport]

When a guy says "punch" for an open-hand slap, then I call him disingenuous.

Yes, punches 3 and 4 were just a couple of open handed light slaps. I'm clueless I guess.

Looking forward to seeing this new "open handed slap" method used more often.

Give me a ****ing break.

[Fager Fan]

Yes, punches 3 and 4 were just a couple of open handed light slaps. I'm clueless I guess.

Looking forward to seeing this new "open handed slap" method used more often.

Give me a ****ing break.

Give me one. A punch is a hit with a closed fist.

Exaggeration has no place here, nor does the lack of acknowledging that the horse nearly jerked him down head-first, and then he tried to buck the rider.

[clicknow]

Give me one. A punch is a hit with a closed fist.

Exaggeration has no place here, nor does the lack of acknowledging that the horse nearly jerked him down head-first, and then he tried to buck the rider.


...but horse was not slapped/punched until AFTER he settled.

So this wasn't for safety, it was punishment, right?

[Fager Fan]

...but horse was not slapped/punched until AFTER he settled.

So this wasn't for safety, it was punishment, right?

Yeah, so settled that after all was quiet, the horse proceeded to act up again and tried to toss his rider right before the gate opened.

The assistant with his hands on the horse knew far better than any of you what was going on with this horse and his dangerous behavior.

I don't mind someone disagreeing with the way this was handled, but the exaggeration of what happened (they were not punches), the lack of acknowledgement of what the horse was doing wrong and the danger it was to the assistant starter and rider, and the extreme calls of punishment (criminal charges, give me an f'n break) are too much to let slide.

[PaceAdvantage]

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.I already said it needs actual horsemen.

I'm NOT A HORSEMAN. NEVER CLAIMED TO BE.

But I am a gambler and a ****ing customer of the racetracks, and I don't want to see a horse *I* bet on PUNCHED with a CLOSED FIST or "OPEN HANDED STRIKES" which in turn SLAMS THE HORSE'S HEAD INTO THE SIDE OF THE STARTING GATE, as you can CLEARLY SEE IN THE VIDEO.

So instead of ****ING ARGUING WITH ME OVER NONSENSE, get with the general story...and that is, people who BET REAL MONEY don't want to SEE their HORSE'S HEAD either PUNCHED or SLAMMED INTO THE STARTING gate by a CLUELESS assistant starter just prior to a race.

And people in GENERAL (talk about the image of the game), CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO SEE an EMPLOYEE of the RACETRACK punching or "OPEN HANDED STRIKING" a horse, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE HORSE HAD SETTLED DOWN from whatever was agitating it.

But I get it. You condone abusing race horses. You're awesome dude. You wanna buy this website?

[PaceAdvantage]

There's too much involved with using a twitch to make them practical, plus that'd be completely disrupting to the horse's mind of what he's about to do in just a few seconds.But open handed striking which in turn slams the horse's head into the side of the gate isn't disrupting at all. Good to know.

[v j stauffer]

I already said it needs actual horsemen.

I'm NOT A HORSEMAN. NEVER CLAIMED TO BE.

But I am a gambler and a ****ing customer of the racetracks, and I don't want to see a horse *I* bet on PUNCHED with a CLOSED FIST or "OPEN HANDED STRIKES" which in turn SLAMS THE HORSE'S HEAD INTO THE SIDE OF THE STARTING GATE, as you can CLEARLY SEE IN THE VIDEO.

So instead of ****ING ARGUING WITH ME OVER NONSENSE, get with the general story...and that is, people who BET REAL MONEY don't want to SEE their HORSE'S HEAD either PUNCHED or SLAMMED INTO THE STARTING gate by a CLUELESS assistant starter just prior to a race.

And people in GENERAL (talk about the image of the game), CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO SEE an EMPLOYEE of the RACETRACK punching or "OPEN HANDED STRIKING" a horse, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE HORSE HAD SETTLED DOWN from whatever was agitating it.

But I get it. You condone abusing race horses. You're awesome dude. You wanna buy this website?

Many qualified, caring people who were involved in both the investigation and subsequent hearing have emphatically stated they don't believe believe the assistant starter was CLUELESS. In fact it's been pretty much universally agreed upon that he is a talented, well respected member of the starting gate team. Included in that list are more than a few who 100% meet the criteria of being called horsemen.

I DO NOT CONDONE ABUSE OF ANY ANIMAL BY ANY PERSON AT ANY TIME.

[castaway01]

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.

Anyone watching the video can see the starter hit the horse hard enough to twist a 1000-pound animal's head sideways, and he did it numerous times. The idea that you want to analyze exactly how many times the guy's fist was closed or open when you can SEE THE IMPACT shows how desperate you are to defend your cousin, er, the starter.

I do know that if someone hit you hard enough to bounce your fat head off that gate a few times, you wouldn't be getting up. Based on the quality of your posts (Vic's posts are to be expected because while he's a great handicapper but has zero integrity) someone may have already done it.

[castaway01]

The majority of racing fans agree with you.

The Commission, Stewards and Animal Cruelty person exonerated the assistant of any other sanctions except the days he missed while awaiting his hearing.

What do you make of the fact the owner and trainer of the horse have stated they didn't have a problem with the assistant's actions?

I make of it that none of them want to criticize one of their "brothers" and that they're all blinded from being stuck inside the racing bubble for 40 years. They don't get how clueless they sound to the rest of the world or why racing is viewed as a joke of a sport. Incidents like this show how out of touch you and some other racing "lifers" are.

[thaskalos]

I DO NOT CONDONE ABUSE OF ANY ANIMAL BY ANY PERSON AT ANY TIME.

Fine. But...how do we convince the bewildered public that what they saw in that disturbing video does not constitute "animal abuse"? Do we tell them what Fager Fan previously said...that the racehorse needs to be manhandled into becoming subservient to the humans, for its "own protection"? How will that play out with a public that considers this to be an overly cruel sport already?

Fager Fan may be right when he says that the "actual horseman's" input should be respected here...but does he realize that the long-term future of this sport depends upon the image that it portrays to the "clueless public"?

[Fager Fan]

Fine. But...how do we convince the bewildered public that what they saw in that disturbing video does not constitute "animal abuse"? Do we tell them what Fager Fan previously said...that the racehorse needs to be manhandled into becoming subservient to the humans, for its "own protection"? How will that play out with a public that considers this to be an overly cruel sport already?

Fager Fan may be right when he says that the "actual horseman's" input should be respected here...but does he realize that the long-term future of this sport depends upon the image that it portrays to the "clueless public"?

Come on. Is THIS really going to be the catalyst that drives you from racing?

Yes, it's bad optics. I'll agree that we shouldn't have things put in front of our audience that are bad optics. But you can't always cave to optics, or cave to it completely. Sometimes it's good to try to explain. Other than you, most are having none of the explaining. I doubt there's a single horseman who got real worked up over that video. They understand.

[v j stauffer]

Anyone watching the video can see the starter hit the horse hard enough to twist a 1000-pound animal's head sideways, and he did it numerous times. The idea that you want to analyze exactly how many times the guy's fist was closed or open when you can SEE THE IMPACT shows how desperate you are to defend your cousin, er, the starter.

I do know that if someone hit you hard enough to bounce your fat head off that gate a few times, you wouldn't be getting up. Based on the quality of your posts (Vic's posts are to be expected because while he's a great handicapper but has zero integrity) someone may have already done it.

Why does my integrity or lack thereof have any place in your post? You don't know me. You don't know anything about me.

[thaskalos]

Come on. Is THIS really going to be the catalyst that drives you from racing?

Yes, it's bad optics. I'll agree that we shouldn't have things put in front of our audience that are bad optics. But you can't always cave to optics, or cave to it completely. Sometimes it's good to try to explain. Other than you, most are having none of the explaining. I doubt there's a single horseman who got real worked up over that video. They understand.

It isn't just this video that people find disturbing. The fact that this took place in full view, along with the nonchalant reaction of the "industry"...makes reasonable people wonder about what might be taking place beyond the camera's prying eye. Couple this with the shameless "disposal" practices by which the game deals with its unwanted horses...and there isn't much left that we could really hang our hat on in this "sport".

[Maximillion]

People are fired every day for (imo) lesser stuff than what this guys doing...in the real world.
I understand its a dangerous job,but do you want someone back there losing his s*** like this?

[PaceAdvantage]

I doubt there's a single horseman who got real worked up over that video. They understand.Yes, they understand they can do whatever the hell they want to a horse and get away with it, or maybe just be handed a slap on the wrist at most (unless your name is Dutrow).

That's what they've come to understand after decades of nonsense.

Keep defending the indefensible. It looks good on you, as always.

Very few of us here care what conclusion the stewards or whomever investigated this thinks. We don't care what the horsemen think. They've never cared about us anyway, for the most part, so why should we care what they think?

We all have two eyes and one brain. And the vast majority of folks in this thread think what they saw was way beyond reasonable. Even the ones that know the difference between a flank and a hind quarter.

The fact that I can't recall ever seeing something like this in over 30 years of watching and betting on races also tells you it's way beyond reasonable.

[coachv30]

One problem here is the "eye of the beholder". Everyone on here (people involved in the sport in some way, shape or form) with the exception of a few seem to be bothered by the behavior of this asst. starter (including myself) ...therefore, this bothered response is legit.

However, there are people who are bothered by the sport itself such and the everyday behaviors that take place such as tugging on reins, the whip, etc...

PETA would no doubt have a blast with this incident, simply because they are against the sport totally. When an incident like this occurs, it gives them a "told you so" moment for them to defend their stance. So...personally I don't believe PETA needs to be bought into this matter at all, since it didn't go on blind eyes and deaf ears...the incident was recognized and a consequences were dealt out.

It was obviously a knee-jerk reaction by the asst. starter. Maybe he was injured in some way during the jostling (such as pinching his finger, or banging his elbow) and he acted out upon instinct without thinking.

Again, I'm not defending the behavior. I just making a case that it could have been the first time this individual acted on impulse resulting in this incident.

[Tom]

It should certainly be his last time.
He should be selling tip sheets at the entrance.
At least if he wacks a customer,they can wack him back.

[clicknow]

Again, I'm not defending the behavior. I just making a case that it could have been the first time this individual acted on impulse resulting in this incident.


I don't think ANYONE is defending the behavior. It is indefensible.

What I think the problem is that the starter is given his job back w/out serious strings attached (counselling, anger management, demotion to job on premises that does not involve live animals, etc.)

In the long run, this kind of poor decision making by GM, trainer, owner..... not doing him or anyone else any favors. When somebody goes off like that--- whether it be in a marriage or a job---- it's time to address that there is a PROBLEM.

Problems with impulse control don't always show up until they show up. Its just that they do tend to repeat, and you can't take that chance.

[Robert Fischer]

Delaware and racing as a whole did a poor job of presenting the story through the media.

Most of what I can find is a from the perspective of a triggering shocking story. The only positive that I can find is that they got the owner to recant his complaint.

The official statement that was issued was lacking.


This is all before actually considering the incident itself.

[Fager Fan]

I don't think ANYONE is defending the behavior. It is indefensible.

What I think the problem is that the starter is given his job back w/out serious strings attached (counselling, anger management, demotion to job on premises that does not involve live animals, etc.)

In the long run, this kind of poor decision making by GM, trainer, owner..... not doing him or anyone else any favors. When somebody goes off like that--- whether it be in a marriage or a job---- it's time to address that there is a PROBLEM.

Problems with impulse control don't always show up until they show up. Its just that they do tend to repeat, and you can't take that chance.

Overreaction.

Again, a ton of old guys with no hands-on horse experience making ill-informed opinions.

Counseling? Demotion? Good grief.

You all act as though your mama never spanked ya. Is she still your mom, or was she put up on criminal charges or demoted?

[PaceAdvantage]

Overreaction.

Again, a ton of old guys with no hands-on horse experience making ill-informed opinions.

Counseling? Demotion? Good grief.

You all act as though your mama never spanked ya. Is she still your mom, or was she put up on criminal charges or demoted?Go **** yourself. You only keep posting because you're getting off on pushing buttons.

You don't know shit...you've displayed that time and again on MULTIPLE TOPICS all over this board.

Except for flanks and hind quarters of course.

Genius.

[PaceAdvantage]

This entire message board is INFESTED with nothing but assholes lately.