TwinSpires

[howardjim]

No odds display, anyone else?

[thaskalos]

I thought it was only me. The odds are there on the "Classic" format...which I despise.

[howardjim]

Thanks for the quick feedback.

[thaskalos]

Problem fixed. I guess they were waiting for you to wake them up. :ThmbUp:

[howardjim]

CD is a remarkable template for the sport, they simply don't care.

Have a good week!

[Nutz and Boltz]

Been having trouble with Twinspires for weeks , sometimes the exotics odds don't load or the programs don't. I just sign out and sign back in. most times that works.

[thaskalos]

I tried to log onto Twinspires last night...and it kept saying that I had exceeded my allowed unsuccessful login attempts. Even though I hadn't visited the site for 3 days.

[Parkview_Pirate]

I too have had numerous problems with Twinspires, mostly using the Classic interface (from the old Winticket days). Portions of the menu do not display (ie, the "exotics" button used to bring up that sub menu, and other selections for that whole row - is simply not there to select), the odds don't refresh, the cookies don't "stick" with my selected tracks (and have to be re-selected), etc.

By far the biggest pain for me though is when I selected "Recall Today's Bets" under the "More Options" menu in the lower right hand corner. It works intermittently, with both Chrome and Firefox browsers, often returning "No wagers" displayed for long periods (over an hour) of time.

In those rare cases where I have a pick 3 still alive, and want to verify which ponies I might still be alive to - I get nothing. And since I don't (and shouldn't have to) write down my wagers, I find this rather annoying. I get the same result using the Youbet menu (wager log).

Then, over time, without doing anything, the problems with menu displays or recalling wagers will disappear, and everything works fine.

So I would guess they have multiple problems - looks to me like the display of the menu "times out", and the database server is not providing high enough priority to dish out info on previous wagers. The only other time I've seen that behavior was on very busy days (ie, Ky Derby), when the whole system was stressed, and wagers couldn't even be placed at some times...

Finally, their IT weenies are also getting cheap on the video signal, with quality way down and constant resettings of the stream. If using virtualized and/or "pay as needed" resources, this would explain the drop in service. It's pretty much standard for me to wager through Twinspires and watch the races via Xpressbet.

[PaceAdvantage]

I use nothing but the YouBet interface...love it, except for the absolute crap video feed...I sometimes go back to my amwager account for video...

Also, they cut the video feed as soon as the last race goes off, so if you want to catch the last race after it's gone off but before it's finished...or just to see who won if it just finished, you're shit out of luck...they turn the feed off as soon as they break from the gate for the last race.

What's up with that, TwinSpires?

[thaskalos]

I use nothing but the YouBet interface...love it, except for the absolute crap video feed...I sometimes go back to my amwager account for video...

Also, they cut the video feed as soon as the last race goes off, so if you want to catch the last race after it's gone off but before it's finished...or just to see who won if it just finished, you're shit out of luck...they turn the feed off as soon as they break from the gate for the last race.

What's up with that, TwinSpires?

I was gonna comment on this, but I forgot. I had the winner in the last race at Louisiana Downs yesterday, and a tote delay help up the payoff for about 15 minutes...but I didn't know what was going on because the Twinspires signal on that track had been turned off too early. :ThmbDown:

[PaceAdvantage]

Something needs to be done about that. Hopefully, someone from TS reads this, because this is probably the most annoying thing about using them right now.

That, and the video feed they provide their "express" YouBet interface is terrible by comparison to most everything else (including their own TwinSpiresTV interface, which has better video quality).

[Nutz and Boltz]

Another problem I have is with the video. Always seems that just after they enter the backstretch, the feed freezes and I wind up missing the stretch run and finish. Annoying as hell.

[Ocala Mike]

Not here to plug anything, but I'm a veteran of several on-line betting platforms, and I've found NYRA BETS to be the best all-around.

[trifecta]

I too have had numerous problems with Twinspires, mostly using the Classic interface (from the old Winticket days). Portions of the menu do not display (ie, the "exotics" button used to bring up that sub menu, and other selections for that whole row - is simply not there to select), the odds don't refresh, the cookies don't "stick" with my selected tracks (and have to be re-selected), etc.

By far the biggest pain for me though is when I selected "Recall Today's Bets" under the "More Options" menu in the lower right hand corner. It works intermittently, with both Chrome and Firefox browsers, often returning "No wagers" displayed for long periods (over an hour) of time.

In those rare cases where I have a pick 3 still alive, and want to verify which ponies I might still be alive to - I get nothing. And since I don't (and shouldn't have to) write down my wagers, I find this rather annoying. I get the same result using the Youbet menu (wager log).

Then, over time, without doing anything, the problems with menu displays or recalling wagers will disappear, and everything works fine.

So I would guess they have multiple problems - looks to me like the display of the menu "times out", and the database server is not providing high enough priority to dish out info on previous wagers. The only other time I've seen that behavior was on very busy days (ie, Ky Derby), when the whole system was stressed, and wagers couldn't even be placed at some times...

Finally, their IT weenies are also getting cheap on the video signal, with quality way down and constant resettings of the stream. If using virtualized and/or "pay as needed" resources, this would explain the drop in service. It's pretty much standard for me to wager through Twinspires and watch the races via Xpressbet.

I've experienced the same thing. One thing you can do is this:
1. go to the "express and pro" wagering interface.
2. go to the race number that started the pick 3 by clicking on the "race" drop down menu above the "results" tab; e.g., if the pick 3 started in race 4, click on race 4 in the race drop down menu.
3. click on the "wager list" tab for race 4. It will show your pick 3 selections for races 4, 5 and 6.

Hope this helps.

[castaway01]

I tried to log onto Twinspires last night...and it kept saying that I had exceeded my allowed unsuccessful login attempts. Even though I hadn't visited the site for 3 days.

Not to sidetrack from the overall argument, but that was probably someone trying to hack into your account, not a Twin Spires error.

[thaskalos]

Not to sidetrack from the overall argument, but that was probably someone trying to hack into your account, not a Twin Spires error.

Doubtful...because the message that Twinspires showed me was that I should contact their customer service so I could retrieve my "correct login information". And the problem resolved itself a few hours later...without me having to take any further action at all.

[PaceAdvantage]

I was actually going to mention the thing about attempted hacking...that's what it sounds like to me as well.

If they let you, I would change your username in addition to your password.

[stuball]

That seems like a plug to me - If it walks and looks like a duck - Is it just me???????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????
:confused:

[mikesal57]

Did you guys notice that "conditional betting" has been eliminated???

I called them and they said that they have problems with it and DONT know when it will be fixed...WTF!!!

The only reason why I keep it cause it carries ALL tracks...NYBETS dont carry CHURCHHILL TRACKS AND they dont even have conditional betting....

Might have to go back to AMWAGER

Mike

Went to AMWAGER..is conditional wagering gone their too???

[PaceAdvantage]

Conditional wagering seems to be alive and well at amwager...just logged into my account and was able to set up a conditional wager no problem.

[Ocala Mike]

[QUOTE=mikesal57;2334458

NYBETS dont carry CHURCHHILL TRACKS



[/QUOTE]


They do if you're not in NY! I can bet it.

[mikesal57]

They do if you're not in NY! I can bet it.

OK.....:ThmbUp:

[mikesal57]

Conditional wagering seems to be alive and well at amwager...just logged into my account and was able to set up a conditional wager no problem.

Will try it later....Thxs

How did you do it exactly?

[PaceAdvantage]

Click on a horse # under the 1st column (say for a win bet), then click the word "add" in the COND column and the box will pop up for you to fill out the conditions.

Know that you always have to +1 on the odds if using decimal odds. I found this out the hard way.

Meaning, if your minimum odds are 3-1, you would put a 4 in the Pricing Condition box when using decimal odds.

It's easier to use fractional odds I guess but at the time I was using conditional betting (I don't any longer thanks to all the late odds changes), I liked to set my cutoff in a more precise manner by using decimal odds.

[mikesal57]

Click on a horse # under the 1st column (say for a win bet), then click the word "add" in the COND column and the box will pop up for you to fill out the conditions.

Know that you always have to +1 on the odds if using decimal odds. I found this out the hard way.

Meaning, if your minimum odds are 3-1, you would put a 4 in the Pricing Condition box when using decimal odds.

It's easier to use fractional odds I guess but at the time I was using conditional betting (I don't any longer thanks to all the late odds changes), I liked to set my cutoff in a more precise manner by using decimal odds.

THXS PA ;)

[mikesal57]

So if I'm betting the #4 horse and I want it to be 3-1 or over at post time...

I see this....

[PaceAdvantage]

So if I'm betting the #4 horse and I want it to be 3-1 or over at post time...

I see this....I would actually use fractional odds just to avoid this confusion.

But if you wanted it to be 3-1 or over in the example you posted, you would enter 3.99 in the Greater Than box...since it says "Greater Than" and you want to include the 3-1s

[mikesal57]

GOT IT!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

They should have a "Greater Than or Equal To" choice as well.

[Nutz and Boltz]

Did you guys notice that "conditional betting" has been eliminated???

I called them and they said that they have problems with it and DONT know when it will be fixed...WTF!!!

A little over a week ago conditional betting was back for one day, then disappeared again. I gave up on conditional betting anyway. Recently I had an instance where I set the odds at 8/1 at 0 minutes to post. At 0 minutes to post, the odds dropped on my horse to 6/1 and the bet was cancelled. Unfortunately, with all the late betting ,the odds jumped to 13/1 when the gates opened. I wasn't at home when the race ran. Of course, the horse won . Never again!:bang:

[thaskalos]

I use nothing but the YouBet interface...love it, except for the absolute crap video feed...I sometimes go back to my amwager account for video...

Also, they cut the video feed as soon as the last race goes off, so if you want to catch the last race after it's gone off but before it's finished...or just to see who won if it just finished, you're shit out of luck...they turn the feed off as soon as they break from the gate for the last race.

What's up with that, TwinSpires?

I may be wrong about this...but it seems to me that Twinspires is no longer cutting their video coverage off at the start of the track's last race. For the last couple days, I've actually been able to tune to the day's last race AFTER its start...and I get to see the remainder of the race coverage all the way to the posting of the payoffs. I've seen posters here declare that racing "insiders" visit and read what we write here...but I must admit that I never really believed that. Now I do.

With the recent retirement of our most renowned horseplayer-representatives out there...you might be one of the last independent "movers-and-shakers" left in this game. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

I've seen posters here declare that racing "insiders" visit and read what we write here...but I must admit that I never really believed that. Now I do.Come on G...where else are they going to go? Twitter? :pound:

[PaceAdvantage]

Also, it seems the video quality is a little better on the TwinSpires Express (old YouBet) interface. Thank you.

[Spicemaster]

It may not seem like it all the time, but I think there are a bunch of us that follow up on feedback where we can, both here and via website feedback.

In this case it is not TwinSpires cutting the video off, but rather our provider. It may happen from time to time from our provider, but if you consistently see a particular track getting cut off prior to the feed replays keep hammering us and we'll follow up with them to see if they can extend the time.

We want you to have as good of an experience as possible!


Brant Allen
Sr. Dir of VIP Services
TwinSpires.com

[Poindexter]

It may not seem like it all the time, but I think there are a bunch of us that follow up on feedback where we can, both here and via website feedback.

In this case it is not TwinSpires cutting the video off, but rather our provider. It may happen from time to time from our provider, but if you consistently see a particular track getting cut off prior to the feed replays keep hammering us and we'll follow up with them to see if they can extend the time.

We want you to have as good of an experience as possible!


Brant Allen
Sr. Dir of VIP Services
TwinSpires.com

When exactly can I expect to be able to upload draft wagers again? It has been what a couple of months now. Why is it disabled anyhow? I spent a lot of time programming spreadsheets so I can input pick 4's and pick 5's and pick 6' quickly and your company has just removed the option. Any particular reason why?

[Mechanic]

When exactly can I expect to be able to upload draft wagers again? It has been what a couple of months now. Why is it disabled anyhow? I spent a lot of time programming spreadsheets so I can input pick 4's and pick 5's and pick 6' quickly and your company has just removed the option. Any particular reason why?

Same on my end, had to move my play to Xpressbet, T/S screwed the pooch when they bought out YouBet, which was a far better platform than anything T/S has now! batch wagering was much more user friendly, most other sites that offer conditional and batch wagering don't have the issues T/S has been experiencing, maybe some new hires are in order?
Twinspires does not seem to care if I stay or if I go:puke: bye bye Twinspires:ThmbDown:

[Spicemaster]

Apologies for the trouble - the developers have it in the queue to fix but I don't know the timing.

It was not disabled as a management decision. There are so many moving parts to all these interfaces and sometimes an upgrade/update affects another part of the website.

I will forward the comments upward....

[AltonKelsey]

I haven't used the batch in a while but I know what it is.


It's a simple text file. Nothing can be broken in uploading a text file that can't be fixed in a day.



If there's something wrong with the back end processing, then that's an other issue.



Nothing that was working for years should take months to fix unless there's ineptness or some political reason .

[Spicemaster]

The simple text upload is not the issue. It is as I described, the back-end code and nothing political about it.

There is no reason we wouldn't want to accept wagers.

[PaceAdvantage]

There is no reason we wouldn't want to accept wagers.Now this I can believe. Thanks for taking the time to keep us informed here. Appreciate it!

[mikesal57]

Click on a horse # under the 1st column (say for a win bet), then click the word "add" in the COND column and the box will pop up for you to fill out the conditions.

Know that you always have to +1 on the odds if using decimal odds. I found this out the hard way.

Meaning, if your minimum odds are 3-1, you would put a 4 in the Pricing Condition box when using decimal odds.

It's easier to use fractional odds I guess but at the time I was using conditional betting (I don't any longer thanks to all the late odds changes), I liked to set my cutoff in a more precise manner by using decimal odds.

PA....

Still cant find "CONDITION" Option...

[PaceAdvantage]

What you posted doesn't look like AmWager...not even a little bit.

What site is that?

[mikesal57]

What you posted doesn't look like AmWager...not even a little bit.

What site is that?

O crap.....Its NYRA Bets.....so they dont have it along with Twinspires....dam

Sorry PA

[AltonKelsey]

The simple text upload is not the issue. It is as I described, the back-end code and nothing political about it.

There is no reason we wouldn't want to accept wagers.




How complicated can it be to convert the betting instructions into a wager?


It worked for years, and it's not rocket science.



Can't imagine something like this taking months , even if it had low priority. Must be NO priority.



Are you familiar with the real reason for the fail, or are you taking the word of the programmers who claim its 'a massive undertaking'


I've never had a programming problem that I couldn't get fixed in a day or two.


PS I suspect if this was code needed for a whale batch betting operation , there would be ZERO downtime. Just a wild guess.

[mikesal57]

I think we ALL should re-consider looking elsewhere.....
I'm about done there and wont fund anymore...

heres some more stuff...

https://twinspires.pissedconsumer.com/review.html

Mike

[Spicemaster]

Oh brother, did you read through this site? Changing their bets, stealing their money.

TwinSpires.com is the largest and IMO most reliable ADW in the industry. One has to take some of that stuff with a grain of salt. I'm not saying TS is perfect by any means and there is always room to improve and get better.

I have seen a lot of things over the years. Players claiming we are monitoring their bets to reduce their payout to players insisting we know who will win and lose to players saying we should refund their wagers because they didn't like the ride they got.

I don't come here all the time, but if you have a legitimate customer service issue, complaint, or comment I'll do my best to help. If you have other issues with TS we can be thankful we live in a free country and have other (lesser IMO) options.

[PaceAdvantage]

Other than the video quality on the Express interface (which is still pretty crummy), I have no complaints.

I've never experienced a problem with getting paid, payouts or any of the fairly crazy complaints I read about on that other site. Not saying it didn't happen...just that in years and years and years of using TS, I've never had that kind of problem.

[Nutz and Boltz]

I have no real complaints about them. Yeah, the video always seems to crap out as the horses head into the stretch, sometimes things load slowly or not at all. But these things are all minor glitches to be expected. Sh_t happens !
Way back you had to wager a certain amount of money in a time period or you were cut-off from watching video of the races. They stopped that, which is good for me because being retired , I don't have the bankroll , I used to have to throw it in every day.
I was going to leave them a couple of times when other ADWs had money back promotions, but their restrictions seem as bad or worse. You want to see a real bad ADW try MyWinners in Connecticut. I kept a second account with them in case outside of the state ADW restrictions were passed by the state. I closed that account real quick. B-a-a-a-d !

[alydar]

I have had an account with TS for many years. Never had a problem. I wish they paid better rebates, and the site can be slow at times, but some of the stuff I read in the link were just silly nonsense. Never had a problem getting paid.

[thaskalos]

I have had an account with TS for many years. Never had a problem. I wish they paid better rebates, and the site can be slow at times, but some of the stuff I read in the link were just silly nonsense. Never had a problem getting paid.

I've never had a problem getting paid from Twinspires, either. But I wish their "rewards" program amounted to something more than it currently is. When a customer bets $3,000 in a single day, and only gets a $3 "reward", while being "congratulated" for receiving it...that's kinda sad.

[Tom]

What is TS paying your guys for?

[Spicemaster]

It's nice to hear some positive words!

thaskalos, that is part of the story....those are daily points (on non-CDI tracks, CDI tracks pay 4x that), then there are promotions. The real value of the VIP program comes with the monthly bonus. If you averaged a bit more than your $3k example for the month, one earns 18x that, in addition to promotions.

Finally, if one lives in a high value state (meaning the profit margin is there) and wagers at a VIP level, we may be able to provide even more incentives. If you are interested, feel free to contact me.

[thaskalos]

It's nice to hear some positive words!

thaskalos, that is part of the story....those are daily points (on non-CDI tracks, CDI tracks pay 4x that), then there are promotions. The real value of the VIP program comes with the monthly bonus. If you averaged a bit more than your $3k example for the month, one earns 18x that, in addition to promotions.

Finally, if one lives in a high value state (meaning the profit margin is there) and wagers at a VIP level, we may be able to provide even more incentives. If you are interested, feel free to contact me.

Thanks...I'll send you a private message.

[mikesal57]

Have you seen lately that you've been getting multiple Twinspires ads every day??

Why not fix the site first before hitting the masses!!!!!

Conditional betting for start....:bang:

A HD picture for second...

etc,etc,etc

[Spicemaster]

Thanks for the note thaskalos....I replied to you last night. LMK if I can help.

On the HD comment, some may have noticed that Churchill was and Arlington is being streamed in HD.

[sjk]

What is the latest on uploading wagers.

I am a long time customer and my play is down by 70% since the uploading has been disabled.

[thaskalos]

Thanks for the note thaskalos....I replied to you last night. LMK if I can help.

On the HD comment, some may have noticed that Churchill was and Arlington is being streamed in HD.

I saw your message...and I appreciate it. Can I send you my phone number so we could talk by phone? Or...I could always call you, if it's more convenient.

[Spicemaster]

I wish I had an end date for you....all I know is it is in their queue to fix. I don't know the priority.....it doesn't help you, I know and I apologize for the trouble.

[Parkview_Pirate]

I've experienced the same thing. One thing you can do is this:
1. go to the "express and pro" wagering interface.
2. go to the race number that started the pick 3 by clicking on the "race" drop down menu above the "results" tab; e.g., if the pick 3 started in race 4, click on race 4 in the race drop down menu.
3. click on the "wager list" tab for race 4. It will show your pick 3 selections for races 4, 5 and 6.

Hope this helps.

Well, at least I'm not the only one having the problem with recalling wagers.

A couple of times while experiencing the problem, I accessed the "express and pro" interface, aka the old youbet menu, and could not not recall anything under the that wager list either. Nor could I get anything back from the "recall wager" button under the TwinSpires TV interface. I will try those both again the next time I have the problem recalling my bets to confirm it's a problem, err, "across the board", pardon the pun.

Last weekend the behavior of the problem changed - from instantly returning the message "no wagers to display" to hanging with an "accessing" or "recalling" message. While different, it's not any better.

I stand by my earlier comment on video stream quality. When the quality of the stream drops off, I "fix" it by bringing up my Xpressbet video. It's especially annoying when watching Hong Kong, as now TS is the only provider I can sign up with that carries them. And being late at night with fewer bettors, I find it hard to believe the system resources are overloaded. I do not have satellite or cable to fall back on as another source for video.

I've used TS for a long time, having started out with Winticket many moons ago, and overall they've been my favorite ADW. I like the Classic wagering interface more than any other, and the free BRIS PPs (with a very small bet) have been a nice perk. The interface to recall and sort wagers for the past 12 years is very good. I've had mixed results with their support, and the latest recommendation for me to call technical support when I experience a problem their testing should easily reproduce does not make me happy. If their developers want to provide me guidance on capturing the necessary debug output to help them, I'd be happy to do that. God forbid it's because I'm running Linux....:eek:

I do understand Spicemaster's comment on the complexity of supporting the various interfaces and platforms. For those of you who think it's easy and "there's no excuse" for not having something "simple" not work just because it used to, I'd suggest right clicking on a page and selecting "inspect" or "view page source" to get the under-the-hood view on what's going on....

[mikesal57]

Everyday ads like this....

But getting things working is an issue ????

[Hapman]

It's nice to hear some positive words!

thaskalos, that is part of the story....those are daily points (on non-CDI tracks, CDI tracks pay 4x that), then there are promotions. The real value of the VIP program comes with the monthly bonus. If you averaged a bit more than your $3k example for the month, one earns 18x that, in addition to promotions.

Finally, if one lives in a high value state (meaning the profit margin is there) and wagers at a VIP level, we may be able to provide even more incentives. If you are interested, feel free to contact me.

Want to say off the bat I really like TS and it's all I use. Great interface and reliable, easy to use.

I still don't quite think the rewards are what they could be. Putting aside the points, for example, the amount you have to bet just to get to "Bronze" and get the CDI benefits of admission and parking just seems kind of absurd to me.

It would be great if you guys offered something for people below that level, it doesn't have to be anything amazing but for example I am at Arlington many times over the course of the meet and it would be great if you had something like an occasional GA ticket free or even food/drink rewards or something like that. Right now unless you are doing pretty high volume all you have is the points which aren't much of a cash back to be honest with you.

[AltonKelsey]

Someone suggested we look at the underlying html code and see how 'complicated' it is in order to excuse batch betting being 'out of service' for an extended period.



Only problem with that , it has zero to do with the issue.



I'll make it simple.


I send a batch bet that tells them , in simple ascii, to bet $100 to win on the 5.


This completely bypasses any web based coding.


All they have to do is convert it to the same coding that they would use if I went to the web page and clicked 100 win , #5.


Rinse repeat , for 1000 trifecta combinations or exactas.





Since their normal betting platform is in full operation, and parsing the upload is trivial, then I can find no reason for batch being down other than sloth.




There's a 50 cent word for ya.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Someone suggested we look at the underlying html code and see how 'complicated' it is in order to excuse batch betting being 'out of service' for an extended period.



Only problem with that , it has zero to do with the issue.



I'll make it simple.


I send a batch bet that tells them , in simple ascii, to bet $100 to win on the 5.


This completely bypasses any web based coding.


All they have to do is convert it to the same coding that they would use if I went to the web page and clicked 100 win , #5.


Rinse repeat , for 1000 trifecta combinations or exactas.





Since their normal betting platform is in full operation, and parsing the upload is trivial, then I can find no reason for batch being down other than sloth.




There's a 50 cent word for ya.

There's a legitimate gripe for TS failing to test basic functionality across the common platforms. But what you perceive to be a simple click or two, is often many lines of code and interpretative functions underneath the covers. Even "simple" ASCII commands are at the mercy of whatever Google, Microsoft, Mozilla and others are up to when it comes to updates, as well as whatever add-ons you use and how they are configured. Since a web interface is used to upload batch wagers, they are always using web based coding on the front end of the transaction.

On the back end, that simple ASCII file of course has to be parsed, translated to a SQL insert, confirmed with the transaction ID# with the tote, and linked to your account - and probably a few other things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. That functionality needs to be integrated with numerous tools and levels of code, (O/S patches, DB APIs, user ids, permissions and security, network connectivity and ports, etc.). There are many places where the functionality can break.

Even with the batch upload disabled, the web interface in Chrome displays 331 lines of HTML to present the menus to me, including one ginormous line that wraps several dozen times.

As for the batch processing being down because of "sloth", well there's certainly the view (once again) that testing across the functions is coming up short. But I would venture to guess that batch processing is used by a relatively small number of users, and is certainly a subset of the entire Twinspires account holders. Considering web and mobile are probably the big hitters, the priority to repair functionality used by fewer users is of course lower - pretty much like folks up in the hills and hollers of the county are last to get the road out front plowed after a blizzard. Sloth maybe, being lower on the totem pole, most probably.

I'm not making excuses for TS - it's obvious to me they need to upgrade the quality of their IT staff, and the corresponding departments of development and support, if they want to maintain the same or improve the user experience. But as one who works in IT myself, I can tell you the bean counters are firmly in charge - and the trend has definitely been to pay less, staff with fewer people, and keep the stock price up. And I don't see that trend changing.

[howardjim]

Most endeavors of any CD business carry a strong scent of "we don't give a shit".

It's been that way for years and is unlikely to change.

[mikesal57]

Watching the races should be like this....

[mikesal57]

There's a legitimate gripe for TS failing to test basic functionality across the common platforms. But what you perceive to be a simple click or two, is often many lines of code and interpretative functions underneath the covers. Even "simple" ASCII commands are at the mercy of whatever Google, Microsoft, Mozilla and others are up to when it comes to updates, as well as whatever add-ons you use and how they are configured. Since a web interface is used to upload batch wagers, they are always using web based coding on the front end of the transaction.

On the back end, that simple ASCII file of course has to be parsed, translated to a SQL insert, confirmed with the transaction ID# with the tote, and linked to your account - and probably a few other things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. That functionality needs to be integrated with numerous tools and levels of code, (O/S patches, DB APIs, user ids, permissions and security, network connectivity and ports, etc.). There are many places where the functionality can break.

Even with the batch upload disabled, the web interface in Chrome displays 331 lines of HTML to present the menus to me, including one ginormous line that wraps several dozen times.

As for the batch processing being down because of "sloth", well there's certainly the view (once again) that testing across the functions is coming up short. But I would venture to guess that batch processing is used by a relatively small number of users, and is certainly a subset of the entire Twinspires account holders. Considering web and mobile are probably the big hitters, the priority to repair functionality used by fewer users is of course lower - pretty much like folks up in the hills and hollers of the county are last to get the road out front plowed after a blizzard. Sloth maybe, being lower on the totem pole, most probably.

I'm not making excuses for TS - it's obvious to me they need to upgrade the quality of their IT staff, and the corresponding departments of development and support, if they want to maintain the same or improve the user experience. But as one who works in IT myself, I can tell you the bean counters are firmly in charge - and the trend has definitely been to pay less, staff with fewer people, and keep the stock price up. And I don't see that trend changing.

They did update their ADVERTISING STAFF......:puke:

[AltonKelsey]

Parkview_Pirate (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=206789), I'm not sure you're thinking this through.





We're talking about functionality that was already working perfectly for years.


They know all the algos, all the parsing routines already. Not rocket science.



Nothing here, that can't be done in days, not months.



Claiming it's in the queue , without a real reason for the downtime doesn't cut it.

[Spicemaster]

howardjim, I assure you that is not the case when it comes to TwinSpires.com. Not only would that be bad for business but I certainly never would have posted here if that was the case. There are a lot of good people that sincerely care about the job they do that don't deserve to be lumped into that general comment.

altonkelsey, I don't know how else to say it other than you aren't thinking this through. I didn't just ask about the issue, I asked for details. They tried to fix it a couple of times after it stopped operating with new/needed updates to the systems. They were unable to revive it - sometimes there are only so many times one use band-aids before needing to operate.

If it were an easy fix it would have been fixed. Once again, we are in the business of taking wagers, not driving business away. If you don't agree with my sentiment above to howardjim, surely you will agree that CDI cares about the bottom line and wouldn't lose business to an "easy fix"? The decision was made to reconfigure and that is where it stands.

[howardjim]

Spicemaster, I wish you and CD the best of luck with your business model.

The profits will continue, as will client dissatisfaction and placing the sport's best interests as they lie, off the radar.

[AltonKelsey]

With all due respect, as a programmer, I find it inconceivable that your 'people' are unable to take a betting instruction and convert it into a live bet, when that's what the site does all day. Every day. And was able to do for years.



If there's some miraculous problem then I'd like to hear it.



Sounds like nonsense to me.

[Spicemaster]

howardjim, I'm sorry that is what you thought my comment conveyed.

altonkelsey, sorry, I have no further details. I take the Development Team at their word they tried multiple times to fix it. I see no reason why they wouldn't have tried...

[sjk]

It worked fine for 10+ years and broke on Derby Day when a lot of other things broke as well and then on another big day shortly after. Other than that it has almost always worked fine.

If the Development Team is setting priorities that are costing business I would hope the business people would redirect them.

[mikesal57]

howardjim, I'm sorry that is what you thought my comment conveyed.

altonkelsey, sorry, I have no further details. I take the Development Team at their word they tried multiple times to fix it. I see no reason why they wouldn't have tried...

Most likely they out-sourced the work to India....get better programmers!!

How come other sites fixes their stuff in a reasonable time?
Condition betting works every where else , but TS has issues.....:confused:

PS- Kudos to your marketing department , I enjoy the 5 emails I get EVERY DAY!!!

[Spicemaster]

Thanks All, I'll go back to lurking...looks like it was a mistake to come with an honest POV. It's not accepted by the majority here, which is fine. I'll leave you to your discussion. L

Like I said in an earlier post, there are lots of options out there if you are unhappy....we'll continue to try to make you happy and work on upgrading the product.

If anyone wants to pass along constructive criticism or has a competitive situation I can fix, feel free to contact me directly. If you are a current VIP and think I can help LMK, after all that is my area. I'll do my best...

[PaceAdvantage]

A shame you are taking this course of action.

I would think you could understand just why certain people, who have been using a function of your website for like, FOREVER, can't understand how something like that could "break" so hard, that it appears unfixable for the time being.

If you are used to using the batch function to upload all of your wagers, and have developed a method of play that revolves around such a function, you're going to be pretty pissed off and not very understanding when days and weeks go by, and it hasn't been fixed.

I've done a pretty fair amount of programming myself, and I know something like this SHOULD be a fairly simple fix.

It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason.

I can guarantee that if there were a MAJOR PLAYER utilizing this function, it would have been fixed pronto.

[mikesal57]

A shame you are taking this course of action.

I would think you could understand just why certain people, who have been using a function of your website for like, FOREVER, can't understand how something like that could "break" so hard, that it appears unfixable for the time being.

If you are used to using the batch function to upload all of your wagers, and have developed a method of play that revolves around such a function, you're going to be pretty pissed off and not very understanding when days and weeks go by, and it hasn't been fixed.

I've done a pretty fair amount of programming myself, and I know something like this SHOULD be a fairly simple fix.

It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason.

I can guarantee that if there were a MAJOR PLAYER utilizing this function, it would have been fixed pronto.

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[ReplayRandall]

The decision was made to reconfigure and that is where it stands.


When there is blowback from longtime customers, you better start "reconfiguring" how much business you're actually going to lose...….Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do.

And that is where it TRULY stands.

[Spicemaster]

I can understand it. I'm a racetracker (worked at four racetracks and two online companies for over 25 years) and lifelong horseplayer. I went to school for racing and have never worked anywhere but horseracing my entire career.

There isn't a reason to continue to engage in conversation when I gave the real reason behind it and it isn't accepted and/or I'm told it isn't genuine or true. From the recent conversation, I see that it's better to let everyone vent. There's nothing I can say that will change minds. Again, that's ok.

I've been on here for 7+ years and really don't need to get involved. It doesn't seem to be helpful and I am not here to provide "lip service" so it is clear my comments aren't wanted.

Plus, the following comments - "we don't give a shit", "Claiming it's in the queue, without a real reason for the downtime doesn't cut it," "profits will continue, as will client dissatisfaction and placing the sport's best interests as they lie, off the radar," "How come other sites fixes their stuff in a reasonable time," "It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason," "Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do" - aren't constructive IMO, so I'll let you all discuss it and keep debating the reason(s) behind it.

I see my peers chime in from time to time to give the industry POV so I thought I'd try, but I was wrong. Just because I'm going back to lurking doesn't mean I won't pay attention and try to help....I will.

If we are losing lots of business, feel free to let me know (with your player details) and I will pass along. Any ammunition I can give will help to get a better priority.

That's my last post - fire away....All the best, hope you have lots of winners!!

[thaskalos]

I can understand it. I'm a racetracker (worked at four racetracks and two online companies for over 25 years) and lifelong horseplayer. I went to school for racing and have never worked anywhere but horseracing my entire career.

There isn't a reason to continue to engage in conversation when I gave the real reason behind it and it isn't accepted and/or I'm told it isn't genuine or true. From the recent conversation, I see that it's better to let everyone vent. There's nothing I can say that will change minds. Again, that's ok.

I've been on here for 7+ years and really don't need to get involved. It doesn't seem to be helpful and I am not here to provide "lip service" so it is clear my comments aren't wanted.

Plus, the following comments - "we don't give a shit", "Claiming it's in the queue, without a real reason for the downtime doesn't cut it," "profits will continue, as will client dissatisfaction and placing the sport's best interests as they lie, off the radar," "How come other sites fixes their stuff in a reasonable time," "It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason," "Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do" - aren't constructive IMO, so I'll let you all discuss it and keep debating the reason(s) behind it.

I see my peers chime in from time to time to give the industry POV so I thought I'd try, but I was wrong. Just because I'm going back to lurking doesn't mean I won't pay attention and try to help....I will.

If we are losing lots of business, feel free to let me know (with your player details) and I will pass along. Any ammunition I can give will help to get a better priority.

That's my last post - fire away....All the best, hope you have lots of winners!!

I, for what it's worth...am sorry to see you go. Twinspires is the biggest ADW out there, and it's nice to have a player-services employee of theirs interacting with us here. All of us have lamented, at one time or another, that our voices are not heard in this game...and it pleases me whenever I see that I can actually converse with an industry "insider"...even if my concerns cannot be readily addressed. In any case...I appreciate the assistance that you have extended to me here...and I will call you directly tomorrow to see if there is something to be done about my own "grievances" with Twinspires. :)

Thanks again.

[highnote]

The Twinspires toteboard has incorrect data for 6 out of 11 Hong Kong races on July 15.

I realize it is a free service, but it actually hurts the twinspires bottom line because there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to risk using the twinspires betting service if the toteboard is incorrect.

For example, six races at Sha Tin today have the wrong win pool bet amounts for one or two horses in each of those six races. The tote shows that eight different horses in six different races each had 8388607 bet on them. That is likely a programming error.

This causes the TS tote to display incorrect odds for those horses.

It is easy to compare the TS odds with the HKJC odds and see the differences. I realize that HK odds equal US odds + 1

Here are the horses that had 8388607 bet on them:

Race #5 - horse #3
Race #6 - horse #2
Race #7 - horse #3
Race #8 - horse #7 and horse #8
Race #10 - horse #13 and horse #14
Race #11 - horse #7

This is one out of a hundred other racetracks that TS handles. How many others have tote errors?

Basically, TS is unusable. TS is too risky to use.

But I kind of hope they don't fix there errors. Other ADWs have correct tote data. It's better to bet with them and get correct information. People who bet with bad totedata will lose. That helps me win.

Thank you, TS! ;)

[highnote]

Note the edit: Changed Twinspires to Twinspires SUPERTOTE.

The Twinspires SUPERTOTE toteboard has incorrect data for 6 out of 11 Hong Kong races on July 15.

I realize it is a free service, but it actually hurts the twinspires bottom line because there is ABSOLUTELY no reason to risk using the twinspires betting service if the toteboard is incorrect.

For example, six races at Sha Tin today have the wrong win pool bet amounts for one or two horses in each of those six races. The tote shows that eight different horses in six different races each had 8388607 bet on them. That is likely a programming error.

This causes the TS tote to display incorrect odds for those horses.

It is easy to compare the TS odds with the HKJC odds and see the differences. I realize that HK odds equal US odds + 1

Here are the horses that had 8388607 bet on them:

Race #5 - horse #3
Race #6 - horse #2
Race #7 - horse #3
Race #8 - horse #7 and horse #8
Race #10 - horse #13 and horse #14
Race #11 - horse #7

This is one out of a hundred other racetracks that TS handles. How many others have tote errors?

Basically, TS is unusable. TS is too risky to use.

But I kind of hope they don't fix there errors. Other ADWs have correct tote data. It's better to bet with them and get correct information. People who bet with bad totedata will lose. That helps me win.

Thank you, TS! ;)

[Poindexter]

I can understand it. I'm a racetracker (worked at four racetracks and two online companies for over 25 years) and lifelong horseplayer. I went to school for racing and have never worked anywhere but horseracing my entire career.

There isn't a reason to continue to engage in conversation when I gave the real reason behind it and it isn't accepted and/or I'm told it isn't genuine or true. From the recent conversation, I see that it's better to let everyone vent. There's nothing I can say that will change minds. Again, that's ok.

I've been on here for 7+ years and really don't need to get involved. It doesn't seem to be helpful and I am not here to provide "lip service" so it is clear my comments aren't wanted.

Plus, the following comments - "we don't give a shit", "Claiming it's in the queue, without a real reason for the downtime doesn't cut it," "profits will continue, as will client dissatisfaction and placing the sport's best interests as they lie, off the radar," "How come other sites fixes their stuff in a reasonable time," "It's obviously not a priority for TwinSpires, for whatever reason," "Lip-service is not required or wanted, just a simple fix will do" - aren't constructive IMO, so I'll let you all discuss it and keep debating the reason(s) behind it.

I see my peers chime in from time to time to give the industry POV so I thought I'd try, but I was wrong. Just because I'm going back to lurking doesn't mean I won't pay attention and try to help....I will.

If we are losing lots of business, feel free to let me know (with your player details) and I will pass along. Any ammunition I can give will help to get a better priority.

That's my last post - fire away....All the best, hope you have lots of winners!!

In the back of my mind I always wonder why people in the industry rarely post. After all, we are customers and we usually are posting about things that are really wrong with the industry. Yet rarely a peep from anyone in the industry. Then this thread comes up, and out of the blue someone from Twinspires starts posting. Then suddenly a few things are posted that he doesn't like and he is out the door. Seriously?

My thoughts on Twinspires. I have used them for a number of years. No issues whatsoever. My sole problem is that I can no longer make my pick 4, pick 5 and pick 6 bets very quickly (now I have to spend about an hour typing in and checking tickets) and if I am too late in my capping or the toteboard alters my opinion, I am sol. In the grand scheme of Twinspires business model, this is probably pretty meaningless. But that being said, we are talking about business. We are talking about a business trying to cater to the needs of it's customer. We are talking about the old school values where companies actually worked to retain customers. By the way I had issues with getting my spreadsheets to function properly(I had to alter the output a bit) and it was not someone from your tech support that figured out what my problem was (they were unable to), it was none other than poster Alton Kelsey that figured out what my problem was.

What would I like to see from Twinspires? How about a bit of concern. "This has been going on too long. We have customers relying on our software for their betting needs, let's fix the problems and let them get back to doing what they do". But if taking care of customers is not in your business model, some customers will take puntitive action against your company. Sort of the theme of this thread. Instead of exiting the thread you should be providing us your assurances that Twinspires cares and that these matters will be resolved quickly("we are committed to get this resolved within the next 30 days). My guess is that Twinspires doesn't care and that the draft/conditional wager issue is very low priority for them. If that is indeed the case, probably best you stay lurking.

[PaceAdvantage]

I heard an executive once from another ADW claim that "hardly anybody uses conditional wagering."

Maybe that's why it is so low on the priority list. Also, I'm thinking conditional/batch wagering uses too many system resources. Especially on big days.

After all, conditional wagering was one of the first things that WENT DOWN on Derby day this year at TS. I know...I was still using conditional wagering back then.

[JerryBoyle]

I heard an executive once from another ADW claim that "hardly anybody uses conditional wagering."

Maybe that's why it is so low on the priority list. Also, I'm thinking conditional/batch wagering uses too many system resources. Especially on big days.

After all, conditional wagering was one of the first things that WENT DOWN on Derby day this year at TS. I know...I was still using conditional wagering back then.

Can't speak to conditional wagering, but wouldn't batch wagering actually decrease resource use? You're not opening up a connection for each wager. As it is with TS, if I want to submit wagers for Tri/Supers programmatically, I call the bet request once per merged ticket. This can mean > 100 requests for a race. Compare that to AmWager, where I send once. Until about a month ago, I wasn't even aware that TS offered batch wagering - wish I had known as looping through wagers one at a time has actually caused me to miss placing some tickets.

On a different note, Spicemaster, thank you for taking the time to engage with the forum, and I hope you continue to do so. Having reps from the various ADWs lurking around here has only up side. BTW, to those questioning his sincerity, it is totally believable that this feature was broken and has not been prioritized to be fixed. My guess is that TS primarily caters to recreational players, given the rebate levels, and that recreational players likely are not huge users of batch wagering. Again, a total guess. But if that's the case, and imagining that they have an active issue list with 100s/1000s of issues, I can see how something - even if it only may take a few hrs to a day to fix - is low priority. Regardless, as a VIP rep, Spicemaster isn't the one prioritizing tech issues...

[PaceAdvantage]

I would think anyone using batch wagering is betting a decent amount of money. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Batch wagering is primarily used by people who want to send in a lot of bets quickly...and a lot of bets usually means a decent amount of money in my book.

The guy betting win/place/show isn't going to use batch wagering. And those are the guys who probably bet the LEAST, because there are a lot of $2 bettors among those folks.

Guys batch betting are probably betting multiple combination vertical wagers (vertical is pick 3, pick 4, etc. right? I always get confused on vertical vs. horizontal).

Anyway, this is a weird issue for me. The programmer in me tends to think something like this shouldn't take long to fix. Curious as to how it "broke" in the first place as well. Seems like it should be a simple connectivity issue, unless they changed a whole bunch of code recently and that isn't compatible with what the batch betting code is used to...

I just don't see this as some huge project, unless, again, they made pretty substantial changes that somehow broke the batch stuff.

[jay68802]

Vertical

1

2 Exacta

3 Tri

4 Super

5 Hi Five


Horizontal

Race #

1......2..........3...........4..........5........ ..6

...Double...Pick 3....Pick 4....Pick 5....Pick 6

[JerryBoyle]

I would think anyone using batch wagering is betting a decent amount of money. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

Batch wagering is primarily used by people who want to send in a lot of bets quickly...and a lot of bets usually means a decent amount of money in my book.

The guy betting win/place/show isn't going to use batch wagering. And those are the guys who probably bet the LEAST, because there are a lot of $2 bettors among those folks.

Guys batch betting are probably betting multiple combination vertical wagers (vertical is pick 3, pick 4, etc. right? I always get confused on vertical vs. horizontal).

Anyway, this is a weird issue for me. The programmer in me tends to think something like this shouldn't take long to fix. Curious as to how it "broke" in the first place as well. Seems like it should be a simple connectivity issue, unless they changed a whole bunch of code recently and that isn't compatible with what the batch betting code is used to...

I just don't see this as some huge project, unless, again, they made pretty substantial changes that somehow broke the batch stuff.

Yep, I agree that it's likely used by those betting exotics which means it's likely larger handle. My point was that idk how much of that business TS actually gets, given that if you're making those kind of wagers, you probably want to bet somewhere with better rebates. Hence, maybe they don't get much business via batch wagering, so it's not as high of a priority.

FWIW, I did notice that their api endpoints have changed recently. Could indicate that there was some larger work going on.

[mikesal57]

Yep, I agree that it's likely used by those betting exotics which means it's likely larger handle. My point was that idk how much of that business TS actually gets, given that if you're making those kind of wagers, you probably want to bet somewhere with better rebates. Hence, maybe they don't get much business via batch wagering, so it's not as high of a priority.

FWIW, I did notice that their api endpoints have changed recently. Could indicate that there was some larger work going on.

Thats the key here....some matrix idiot deemed whats good and whats not good for TS....

And we all know who lost....:ThmbDown:

But we are only a small portion of people that know what we are doing...

Their target is the young and less experience bettors that dont know

[sjk]

I would hope that they would take it into account that anyone using batch betting is likely to be more serious and more persistent than most.

I looked at my records and over the last 20 years I have 70,000+ races online. (I have been at it longer than twinspires with youbet and call-a-bet/xpressbet)

Even if the individual bets don't seem impressive to them they would have to attract an awful lot of casual players to replace my action over the long haul.

You would hope that satisfying long time customers would count for something.

[AltonKelsey]

I'm glad ya'll appreciate how absurd it is for this feature to be out of service for so long. And no, there is zero impact as far as network resources . A single low end pc could probably handle the entire batch universe at twinspires





And how is it that Nyra Bets doesn't even have a batch capability at all?




Programmatically, this is a trivial exercise. No idea why these guys are dropping the ball.


Other parts of the sites show considerable programming chops, so that can't be it.

[highnote]

I'm glad ya'll appreciate how absurd it is for this feature to be out of service for so long. And no, there is zero impact as far as network resources . A single low end pc could probably handle the entire batch universe at twinspires

And how is it that Nyra Bets doesn't even have a batch capability at all?

Programmatically, this is a trivial exercise. No idea why these guys are dropping the ball.

Other parts of the sites show considerable programming chops, so that can't be it.

Considering that TS can't even display the correct win bet amounts on horses that ran at Sha Tin yesterday, how can they do something more complicated like taking batch wagers?

They're actually doing you and me a favor because we will find, or in my case have already found, a better service. Those who use TS to make wagers with bad information help give me an edge.

Plus, other services offer far more generous rebates, which also gives me an advantage over other players.

I hope TS grows their business. Informed players will make even more money from ignorant bettors if that happens.

Like Spice I won't comment anymore. It's not very smart of me to inform people about poorly run services. It kills my edge. But there is a part of me that feels like I have a duty to help my racetrack betting brethren.

That's all I have to say. Caveat Emptor. You've been warned.

[AltonKelsey]

highnote (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=298), I think you're being unfair, a random glitch in a foreign pool is not proof of general problems.



I have seen few data issues with the twinspires feed in general.


What they need is someone with some power to say, "boys, get that batch back up in a week, or look for another employer".

[highnote]

highnote (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=298), I think you're being unfair, a random glitch in a foreign pool is not proof of general problems.

I have seen few data issues with the twinspires feed in general.

What they need is someone with some power to say, "boys, get that batch back up in a week, or look for another employer".

If that's the case, then lack of batch wagering is really not a big deal, either. Right? It doesn't affect me, so why should I care?

Actually, I do care and I disagree with you.

TS having glitches in the tote pool for 6 out of 11 races on Sunday in the largest pari-mutuel pools in the world along with the loss of batch wagering functionality on the TS website sends a very clear message to horseplayers that there are a lot of problems at CD in general, and TS in particular, and those problems are the result of lack of caring about the customer from CD management.

It starts at the top. Management sets the tone.

But they would be wise to remember, it always ends at the bottom when customers seek out better suppliers.

I have had about 10 different ADW suppliers over the years. I can say without hesitation that AMWAGER is far and away the best. It's not even close.

[AltonKelsey]

That's the problem with the internet. Lack of reason.


The batch issue is completely separate from your one time random data issue .


How do you know it wasn't the Hong Kong feed at fault?

[PaceAdvantage]

I have had about 10 different ADW suppliers over the years. I can say without hesitation that AMWAGER is far and away the best. It's not even close.I have an AmWager account as well.

I can say, without a doubt, that I have WAY MORE problems on AmWager than I have had on TS. It's not even close.

For the past two weeks or so, I'd click on the VIDEO button, and get error after error, until I refreshed the page. Then it would work again.

I've had other, countless problems with the user interface that could only be cured with a refresh of the entire page. From the results screens, to data displays getting "stuck"...all sorts of little problems from the start.

In fact, I would say I have had the exact OPPOSITE experience that you have had when pitting TS vs. AmWager in a heads-up battle of who is more reliable.

Now I'm not saying AmWager isn't a good choice for ADW. They do offer some nice rebates for those in certain states and their conditional betting system is the best I've ever seen...plus their batch wagering works ;)

But they certainly are NOT without their glitches and problems.

[highnote]

I have an AmWager account as well.

I can say, without a doubt, that I have WAY MORE problems on AmWager than I have had on TS. It's not even close.

For the past two weeks or so, I'd click on the VIDEO button, and get error after error, until I refreshed the page. Then it would work again.

I've had other, countless problems with the user interface that could only be cured with a refresh of the entire page. From the results screens, to data displays getting "stuck"...all sorts of little problems from the start.

In fact, I would say I have had the exact OPPOSITE experience that you have had when pitting TS vs. AmWager in a heads-up battle of who is more reliable.

Now I'm not saying AmWager isn't a good choice for ADW. They do offer some nice rebates for those in certain states and their conditional betting system is the best I've ever seen...plus their batch wagering works ;)

But they certainly are NOT without their glitches and problems.

I agree with you that they do have their fair share of errors -- especially on the video locking up. Sometimes the bet confirmation box just keeps spinning.

I can overlook all of those because of the rebates. I get your point that you get lower rebates because of source market fees. That's a bummer because the serious players that you have to compete with will set up operations in a jurisdiction where they can get the highest rebates.

I may not be nearly as good of a bettor as you, but I can make more than you at the end of year simply because of rebates.

It is unfair to horseplayers to be treated this way.

It's reasons like these that HANA was started. Unfortunately, these are political problems. In order for HANA to be really successful they will probably have to get more political.

For me, it was easier to stop betting U.S. races and look overseas for better opportunities.

I love the French racing where the jockeys ride on the backs of trotters. It looks ridiculous the first time you see it, but the fields are large and there is so much value. Why would anyone ever want to bet a steady diet of 5 horse races at Beaten Downs on a weekday afternoon when there are 14 horse fields in nearly every race in Hong Kong or steeplechases with 25 or 30 horses in England?

One more thing... as far as there being two threads on TS -- there are more like 7 or 8. The first 3 alone are about TS. 5 out of the first 7 are about TS! That's good and bad. It's good because it means they are a big player. Good for them. It's bad because it shows they have a lot of problems.

[highnote]

That's the problem with the internet. Lack of reason.

The lack of reason on internet is not the problem. The problem is your need to comment on the lack of reason on the internet in the cases when the internet is not lacking reason.

The batch issue is completely separate from your one time random data issue .

Wrong again. The batch issue and the tote data issue is a tote data provider issue. The problems were born in the same place. Each one manifested themselves differently, but they sprouted from the same starting point. No service provider. No problems.

It was not a one time random data issue. It happened 8 times in 6 different races. I am looking around to see if I can find someone with a set of archived HK pool data to see if this has happened before.

It was not just my data issue. It was a data issue for anyone who bets on HK races and relies on the data feed from the aforementioned data provider.


How do you know it wasn't the Hong Kong feed at fault?

Because I checked Amwager's tote and the odds on the HKJC website. Those two sites agree. No horses on the Amwager site had 8388607 bet on them at the end of the betting period.

Also, every horse that had questionable data from aforementioned data provider had the same exact amount bet on them -- 8388607.

Now, I'm not a world class statistician by any stretch of the imagination, but given that there can be over 1 billion HK bet on a single horse the chances of 8 different horses in 6 different races having exactly 8388607 bet on them is incredibly small. Not impossible, but the most likely explanation is that there was an error in the data the tote provider sent out.

[AltonKelsey]

ts provides data for dozens of tracks , hundreds of pools daily, and I have never noticed a pool error. I'd say the accuracy rate is close to 99.99% on a daily basis.




You're distracting from the issue of management priority of a software fix.

[highnote]

ts provides data for dozens of tracks , hundreds of pools daily, and I have never noticed a pool error. I'd say the accuracy rate is close to 99.99% on a daily basis.

You are probably correct that the pools are correct most of the time. I have never seen a problem in their domestic pools, but I have never thought to look for the specific kinds of errors I saw recently. The reason I brought this up in the first place was to remind handicappers to not become complacent and just assume the data is always correct.

It might be worth it to me to write additional code for my software that checks for certain kinds of tote errors. I have some error checking code in my software already, but not for the kind of errors I saw recently. Maybe it is possible to cross-check the pools with other sites or to look for win bet amounts that are repeated over and over?

I have always assumed the liability for any betting errors that happen to me -- even if the fault is not mine. That's part of the game. Things happen that are out of anyone's control. I have probably benefitted from errors that were outside of my control. In the end it all evens out.


You're distracting from the issue of management priority of a software fix.

It sounds like you are saying it is more of a priority to fix batch wagering than to track down the bug that displays incorrect tote data.

I respectfully disagree. Odds are the lifeblood of bettors. If a horse is listed at 4/1 and it's really 4/5 that is a big difference to a bettor. And it could be the difference between making or not making a bet.

If the horse is 4/5 and you think it is 4/1 and send in a big bet because you think you are getting value, then you're in for a rude surprise if the horse wins. People would be screaming about past posting. I can hear them now, "It was 4/1 when I bet at a minute to post and it only paid 4/5!"

Or vice versa, "I would have bet if I would have known it was 4/1. No way would I bet it at 4/5!"

[Spicemaster]

Much respect for you guys/gals (especially altonkelsey and Parkview Pirate).

I looked into highnote's issue and found no other reports of his complaint. It's likely a localized issue (maybe he doesn't log in/log out). First, there is no TwinSpires Supertote, even BRIS supertote was discontinued...there were no reports of bad odds (and there would have been many, if true)...good luck with your betting strategy of better odds versus the worldwide pool. Doesn't sound like we are missing any handle by helping him either way...

Paceadvantage, you are fair and I appreciate that.

Hapman, thx - if you think I can help LMK.

Poindexter, we do care and if I can help LMK. If I can't, I apologize, but we still care. I think we'll fix your issue eventually...

thx, Jerryboyle...you are on point.

If I missed someone, I apologize.

P.S. thaskalos, happy to take your call, anytime.

[highnote]

Much respect for you guys/gals (especially altonkelsey and Parkview Pirate).

I looked into highnote's issue and found no other reports of his complaint. It's likely a localized issue (maybe he doesn't log in/log out). First, there is no TwinSpires Supertote, even BRIS supertote was discontinued...there were no reports of bad odds (and there would have been many, if true)...good luck with your betting strategy of better odds versus the worldwide pool. Doesn't sound like we are missing any handle by helping him either way...



Thanks for looking into it.

I just remembered I saved the XML tote data for the 11th race from Sha Tin on Sunday. Note horses #7 and #9 have the same amount bet on them which makes their odds appear incorrectly. I got to the TS tote by going to BRISNET.com and clicking on "More" and then clicking on "Free Supertote" which explains why I called it TS Supertote. This is the XML data that was displayed.

If you guys would have just kept the old HTML version of Supertote functioning you would have a lot fewer complaints. But I get it. Things change. Unfortunately, for customers, change is not always for the better (and not always for the bettor).

"<?xml version=""1.0"" encoding=""ISO-8859-1"" ?>
- <ApiResponse>
<UTS>1531703741</UTS>
<Debug>off</Debug>
- <PoolTotals>
- <PoolTotal>
<PoolType>WN</PoolType>
<Amount>54999715</Amount>
<Base>1</Base>
<Track>st</Track>
<Type>Thoroughbred</Type>
<Race>11</Race>
</PoolTotal>
- <PoolTotal>
<PoolType>SH</PoolType>
<Amount>34500266</Amount>
<Base>1</Base>
<Track>st</Track>
<Type>Thoroughbred</Type>
<Race>11</Race>
</PoolTotal>
</PoolTotals>
- <PoolTotalsContext>
<Track>st</Track>
<Type>Thoroughbred</Type>
<Race>11</Race>
</PoolTotalsContext>
- <WPSPools>
<Track>st</Track>
<Type>Thoroughbred</Type>
<TotalsRace>11</TotalsRace>
- <Entries>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>1</ProgramNumber>
<Win>1417365</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>1736288</Show>
<WinPct>2.6</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>5.0</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>2</ProgramNumber>
<Win>1381498</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>1586866</Show>
<WinPct>2.5</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>4.6</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>3</ProgramNumber>
<Win>1056914</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>1111494</Show>
<WinPct>1.9</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>3.2</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>4</ProgramNumber>
<Win>1725554</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>1703805</Show>
<WinPct>3.1</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>4.9</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>5</ProgramNumber>
<Win>501949</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>555634</Show>
<WinPct>0.9</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>1.6</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>6</ProgramNumber>
<Win>2615371</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>2387317</Show>
<WinPct>4.8</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>6.9</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>7</ProgramNumber>
<Win>8388607</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>7443107</Show>
<WinPct>15.3</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>21.6</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>8</ProgramNumber>
<Win>3257500</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>3479413</Show>
<WinPct>5.9</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>10.1</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>9</ProgramNumber>
<Win>8388607</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>6139076</Show>
<WinPct>15.3</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>17.8</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>10</ProgramNumber>
<Win>901818</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>1034287</Show>
<WinPct>1.6</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>3.0</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>11</ProgramNumber>
<Win>1928416</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>1775237</Show>
<WinPct>3.5</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>5.1</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>12</ProgramNumber>
<Win>4360084</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>2956420</Show>
<WinPct>7.9</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>8.6</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>13</ProgramNumber>
<Win>186704</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>296833</Show>
<WinPct>0.3</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>0.9</ShowPct>
</Entry>
- <Entry>
<ProgramNumber>14</ProgramNumber>
<Win>2057694</Win>
<Place>0</Place>
<Show>2294489</Show>
<WinPct>3.7</WinPct>
<PlacePct>0.00</PlacePct>
<ShowPct>6.7</ShowPct>
</Entry>
</Entries>
<PctRace>11</PctRace>
</WPSPools>
</ApiResponse>"

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, if BRIS supertote was discontinued (which it was), and you somehow found some still functioning back door to it, maybe that's why you were getting bad data.

Something that is discontinued can't be relied upon for accurate data.

[highnote]

Well, if BRIS supertote was discontinued (which it was), and you somehow found some still functioning back door to it, maybe that's why you were getting bad data.

Something that is discontinued can't be relied upon for accurate data.


All I know is that BRISNET.com directed me to a Twinspires website with this URL: https://m.twinspires.com/#liveRaces

It doesn't look discontinued to me and I certainly didn't use a backdoor to get to it. I went through a CD owned property to get to it.

As far as I can tell http://www.brisnet.com/content/ is still a going concern. There is news for the upcoming Del Mar meeting and live tote for tonight's races.

If they don't want to fix the problem there is nothing I can do about it. I'm just putting it out there for other handicappers to make sure they check the data for integrity. And that goes for any tote board -- not just for the TS tote board or whatever they call it.

I'm just the messenger, but I get it people don't like criticism. Maybe if they took care of customers they wouldn't get criticized. And maybe their customers would not leave them to go bet on races in exotic, far away lands.

[Spicemaster]

highnote, you are correct it does say Supertote so I'm wrong. I didn't realize that was on there. The old Supertote was discontinued when the new BRIS site was launched and that link redirects you to the mobile interface (m....).

Again, there were no reports of an issues on that interface. If you are having one I would contact Tech Support for help. Gonna be awhile before you can test the Hong Kong theory though since their last day of the meet was the other night.

[highnote]

highnote, you are correct it does say Supertote so I'm wrong. I didn't realize that was on there. The old Supertote was discontinued when the new BRIS site was launched and that link redirects you to the mobile interface (m....).

Again, there were no reports of an issues on that interface. If you are having one I would contact Tech Support for help. Gonna be awhile before you can test the Hong Kong theory though since their last day of the meet was the other night.

Thanks again.

It occurred to me that since it was the last day of the meeting people let their guard down a little and things slipped through the cracks. It's kind of the like restaurant at the Carousel at Saratoga on closing day. It's pretty laid back compared to the tension there on opening day.

I may have posted this before:

Here are 8 horses that had 8388607 bet on them to win:

Race #5 - horse #3
Race #6 - horse #2
Race #7 - horse #3
Race #8 - horse #7 and horse #8
Race #10 - horse #13 and horse #14
Race #11 - horse #7

It looks like a software glitch. I went back at the end of the day and checked to toteboard in a couple of different browsers. I am trying to figure out a scenario where two different browsers would display the wrong win bet amounts on 8 different horses over 5 races.

Like PA said, maybe it's because I was getting to TS through an typical way that the values in some of the fields did not update properly or were stored in a variable and the variable didn't get cleared?

I'll keep an eye on it. I think I can probably get by with just the odds from the HKJC website and use them to estimate the pool sizes. I like to bet the Dr. Z place and show system -- although, they only have place wagering in HK which is like show wagering here. They give the odds for place -- which I have never seen done anywhere else -- maybe England? I'm not sure how they calculate place odds. And I don't know if the place odds are fixed or if they are pari-mutuel.

I don't think TS shows place odds -- just win odds.

Anyway, lots of questions and lots to learn and investigate.

[highnote]

If anyone tried to PM me I didn't get it because I ran out of space. I deleted all my PMs. Try again to PM me if you want.

[Gorrex]

On the AmWager video issues, if you guys catch that happening can you please send an email to support@amwager.com.

We are currently working on replacing the player we use and that will make it much more resource friendly and also allow us a lot more control of how we use it.

[highnote]

On the AmWager video issues, if you guys catch that happening can you please send an email to support@amwager.com.

We are currently working on replacing the player we use and that will make it much more resource friendly and also allow us a lot more control of how we use it.

The video only stops working and the betting confirmation only freezes after I have had my browser running for a long time with the video playing. Usually, just refreshing the browser solves the problem.

I think the problem is more on my end. I still use IE mostly. I also use a new browser called Brave. I really like it. It works with amwager, but I'm not sure how compatible it actually is.

[Gorrex]

Also wanted to note that searching here today was the first I had heard of any video issues and our support has not had any notices of it as well.

On the submit button lag, that is fixed or largely fixed. Two long standing issues were identified and fixed mid-last week. I have a few other optimizations to make that were found along with that but should only be a few millisecond improvement.

The results not updating when switching races in the UI has also been resolved and is in the next release along with some enhanced odds visualizations. We are also working on a new bet modifier that will be 100% unique to AmWager and should begin to give all levels of players a glance at the power CAW players have been using for years. It is just a beginning on what we have planned going forward.

Due to Saratoga starting we are being cautious on releases though and I do not yet have a firm date.

[Gorrex]

We added Brave to our QA cycles last week. It hasn't been through a full pass yet but so far so good.

Microsoft Edge is supported by us and in our QA cycles.

IE however is NOT in our QA cycles as supporting it fully is extraordinarily problematic and microsoft themselves ended support for all versions. There may be a partial solution coming later this summer but its largely a side effect and not intentional. I would fully recommend anyone still using IE to install any other browser no matter the brand. Since IE is not supported by MS anymore it is not secure.

[PaceAdvantage]

The past day or so I haven't noticed the video error, so hopefully it's fixed. Maybe it wasn't even on your end since you didn't receive any reports about it.

I didn't have any sort of similar issues with another ADW's video...

[AltonKelsey]

No reason to be using IE for the last 10 years or more.


Why cripple your system with under performing software when the alternatives are free?


I use Firefox. Chrome works.

[highnote]

No reason to be using IE for the last 10 years or more.


Why cripple your system with under performing software when the alternatives are free?


I use Firefox. Chrome works.

That's a pretty cocksure statement to say that there is no reason to use IE for the last 10 years or more. I can think of a lot a lot of reasons to use it. The simplest and most important reason is that I like it and it works well.

Your second sentence, a question, pre-supposes the answer.

Why do you assume my system is running under performing software and that it would somehow run better with free software? IE was free.

What are you doing -- still running a computer with a Pentium processor? :D

[molson721]

Not here to plug anything, but I'm a veteran of several on-line betting platforms, and I've found NYRA BETS to be the best all-around.
Not a fan of Twinspires at all but if you think NYRA BETS is the best, I can only assume you are an employee NYRA!

Where do I begin, I can get free programs from Twinspires if I wager on that track which NYRA makes customers pay for! I could go on but I have come to realize, customer service is of little importance to the fans that wager on racing! They are casino companies and they only care about the slots player!

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you play horse racing, the history of treating the fans of the sport like sh*t lives on! I guess that is why I don't try to introduce people to the sport! :bang:

[AltonKelsey]

You wouldn't think folks would go out of their way to advertise their cluelessness, but sure 'nuff, that's what they do .

[highnote]

First, let me say that it is nice to know that Spicer from twinspires looked into fixing the tote errors from Hong Kong races.

The information that follows is a little complicated to explain, but I hope I made it clear enough to be helpful in tracking down and fixing the errors for the upcoming HK meeting that begins early September.

I have spoken with a couple of racing colleagues about the HK tote feed from TS and they verified that there were errors on Sunday. One of my colleagues also confirmed my suspicions that tote errors had been occurring throughout the entire meeting.

FYI:

Attached are two GIFs of the tote data for Hong Kong race #11 at Sha Tin on Sunday, July 15, 2018.

The first GIF shows all the final win pool bets on each horse based on data retrieved from via a commercial tote service one colleague subscribes to. Note that #7 and #9 each have 8388607 bet on them. These amounts are incorrect. It also shows the final win pool total of 38168081. This amount is also incorrect.

The second GIF shows the final win pool total as it appeared on the HKJC.com website. The win pool total was 54999715. The difference between the TS win pool total and the HKJC win pool total is more 16 million dollars.

The odds on #7 on the HKJC site were listed at 2.2-1. This converts to 1.1-1 in U.S. odds. The odds on #9 were 2.4-1 in U.S. odds.

The twinspires tote showed the odds on #7 and #9 both to be 7.55-1 U.S. odds -- much higher than they actually were. Those two horses were the co-favorites, not middling longshots.

Here are the final win pool bets from TS on each horse in Race #11 at Sha Tin on Sunday, July 15, 2018 that I pulled from the XML data in their feed:


# 1 - 1417365
# 2 - 1381498
# 3 - 1056914
# 4 - 1725554
# 5 - 501949
# 6 - 2615371
# 7 - 8388607
# 8 - 3257500
# 9 - 8388607
#10 - 901818
#11 - 1928416
#12 - 4360084
#13 - 186704
#14 - 2057694
--------------
ttl - 38168081
==============


Note the win pool total from the XML data. It matches the win pool total for the TS data from the commercial service shown in the attached spreadsheet in GIF format. The TS win pool totals are wrong because #7 and #9 have incorrect win bet amounts shown for them.

[highnote]

My colleague sent me screen grabs of HK data from TS that showed there were 7 times on 1-31-18 that 8388607 shows up in the final win pool betting.

Then he sent another from 10-14-17 when 8388607 showed up 7 times.

Hopefully, TS IT guys can track it down before Sept 2 and let us know they found it.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Surprised that few have had video streaming issues with TS. Total stuff up right now, with jerky stream from Down Under. Open new window with Xpressbet, with the same browser (Chrome on Linux), stream from Aussie silky smooth.

Sad technical quality from TS the past couple of years.

[Mechanic]

Twinspires:coffee:

Sorry, but file uploading is currently disabled.:bang:

five months and counting:puke:

[highnote]

Twinspires:coffee:

Sorry, but file uploading is currently disabled.:bang:

five months and counting:puke:

It has been explained to me from people in the industry that TS is trying to build a sports betting platform on top of their aging racing platform.

If this is true then it is more likely sports betting issues will get more attention than race betting issues.

[thaskalos]

It has been explained to me from people in the industry that TS is trying to build a sports betting platform on top of their aging racing platform.

If this is true then it is more likely sports betting issues will get more attention than race betting issues.

What these ADWs don't seem to realize is that sports-betting can be a very risky short-term endeavor for the bet-taker. What will Twinspires do with the customers who win consistently at sports-betting? Ban them...and then lose them as horseplaying customers too?

[Parkview_Pirate]

What these ADWs don't seem to realize is that sports-betting can be a very risky short-term endeavor for the bet-taker. What will Twinspires do with the customers who win consistently at sports-betting? Ban them...and then lose them as horseplaying customers too?

You seem to be assuming that Twinspires and other new North American sports books would operate under the principle of wanting to avoid the winning players because they are booking their action directly, and it cuts into their profits. I'm not sure that will be the model they use, which is what numerous offshore establishments did.

I would guess that .gov is going to take a bigger slice of the action, and that the sportsbooks will be content with simply grabbing a slice of the action, and not care whether or not the individual is winning or losing. In this game, it wouldn't surprise me to see them offer a rebate (lower juice) to the larger and winning bettors to pump the handle up. This will especially be true if peer-to-peer wagers are allowed.

At the end of the day, I'm not sure Twinspires will be that big of player. Tonight they can't even get the video from Australia working, though audio is available. Logging into Xpressbet, I get to actually watch the race I'm betting. How nice.:rolleyes:

[Bill F]

Twinspires came out with an updated interface for their site today, and surprise, surprise, the Pro (Youbets) Platform doesn't work.

I'm sure they'll get that working, but as they continue to prove, they are not very good (or considerate) when reinventing the wheel.

Off the top of my head, they've taken away Supertote, made the exotic probables impossible to automate, "disabled" file uploading, and made sure that you can't download simultaneous Race Files from Brisnet.

But I hear that their stock is doing great. Keep up the good work!

[Bill F]

Update... Wager Pro is working again

[highnote]

... made the exotic probables impossible to automate...

Bill -- what do you mean by the exotic probable are impossible to automate?

My software for the Dr. Z Exacta system works well with their tote board.

[Bill F]

"Bill -- what do you mean by the exotic probables are impossible to automate?"

I used to be able to pull the data into Excel and have it auto-refresh at 3 minute intervals. The Twinspires interface now prevents me from doing so.

I'm an intermediate computer user, so if there is still a way to automate it (other than copy & paste), I'd really appreciate knowing how.

[highnote]

"Bill -- what do you mean by the exotic probables are impossible to automate?"

I used to be able to pull the data into Excel and have it auto-refresh at 3 minute intervals. The Twinspires interface now prevents me from doing so.

I'm an intermediate computer user, so if there is still a way to automate it (other than copy & paste), I'd really appreciate knowing how.

I was able to import the exacta grid into excel using this link:

https://m.twinspires.com/php/fw/php_BRIS_BatchAPI/2.3/Tote/ExactaProbables?username=iphone&password=ru13juhyo&ip=10.20.2.248&affid=2800&affiliateId=2800&track=SAR&type=Thoroughbred&race=1

You will manually need to change the track abbreviation. Saratoga -- SAR -- is being used here.

Change Thoroughbred to Greyhound or Harness for whatever race type you are looking at.

Change the race number

Open Excel. Click on "Data" in the menu bar at the top of the screen.

Click "From Web"

Past the link in the Address bar and then click "Go".

It will probably take a few seconds to load the XML data. When the XML data appears click the "yellow and black right arrow" to select the table you want to import. There should only be one table and clicking the arrow should highlight all the XML data in the textbox..

Click "Import". Then click "OK" to put the data in the Column A row 1 or wherever you want it to appear. This might take a moment or so to load.

You can click the "Refresh" button occasionally to update the data.

Don't worry about the userid and password. Those are dummy placeholders. Doesn't seem to matter what you put in there. Those aren't mine.

These links have worked for me for about a month. They have worked for others for at least a year. I assume they will keep working until TS decides to change them just to screw with horseplayers. Although, I don't know why they would change the way this works. You have to manually refresh the data, so it's not like you're hitting their servers 500 times per minute trying to get updates. It's no different than refreshing your browser. Actually, because you have to refresh manually, your usage will be even less than a browser because a browser updates automatically.

[Bill F]

WOW! I'll give it a go.
Thank you so much, Bill

[molson721]

Just what I needed, having the ability to change my password or pin, stable alerts, a link to sign up for twinspires and all the other account information taking up 1/3 of my wagering interface. They truly are clueless! :bang:

I am certain the people that thought these changes are good are people who have never wagered on a race!

[highnote]

Just what I needed, having the ability to change my password or pin, stable alerts, a link to sign up for twinspires and all the other account information taking up 1/3 of my wagering interface. They truly are clueless! :bang:

I am certain the people that thought these changes are good are people who have never wagered on a race!

About 20 years ago I saw the need for a horseplayer cooperative that would try to help address the needs of horseplayers. The Paceadvantage platform allowed that to happen. I started posting about the idea on Paceadvantage. When I saw that the idea was gaining traction I asked Mike if he could make a "war room" available for us to use. He agreed to. The Paceadvantage war room was where the Horseplayers Association of North America (HANA) was born.

My vision for HANA was that HANA would have some dialogue with racetrack executives about what horseplayers like/don't like, want/don't want, and use/don't use.

Yavapai Downs executives reached out to HANA. Jeff Platt and I met with them and had a very interesting meeting. Yavapai's troubles were too big and had been going on too long for them to be able to overcome them.

It was a long time ago, but as I recall, at the Yavapai meeting Jeff and I recommended focusing on being extremely horseplayer friendly by lowering takeout, starting a wagering platform, and other horseplayer-friendly actions. Yavapai was constrained by legislation about how much they could raise rates. Agreements with Turf Paradise had them over a barrel. The inability to implement a better account wagering system was a big negative. They needed capital to give them another couple years of runway so that they could attempt to change Arizona policies. The AZ politicians tended to side with Indian casinos who were big political donors and passed legislation favorable to the casinos which were unfavorable to Yavapai. Yavapai ran out of time and money and ceased operations not long after our meeting.

I visited KY Downs and had a very nice meeting with some of the staff there. They were doing the rights things and have had good success.

Keeneland invited to their track Jeff and other HANA members. I did not attend the meeting, but it seemed productive. Keeneland kept takeout rates lower, but eventually raised them much to the chagrin of HANA. We'll see how it turns out for them in the longer run.

Other tracks have not been as receptive to HANA's calls for reduced takeout. Hollywood Park comes to mind. The track no longer exists.

Churchill Downs also raised their rates against the wishes of HANA members. I'm not sure if CD has ever listened to a word from horseplayers about what they want. CD bought BRIS and then closed Supertote. Supertote was a great horseplayer resource. I get that it didn't look like the rest of the twinspires property, but that was not a big deal. Any programmer could have changed the look of it, but kept its functionality the same. Instead, TS closed it down and replaced it with the new TS online toteboard which is much more difficult to navigate and use to import into excel or other software for analysis.

Why is it so difficult to consider what horseplayers want instead of ramming a website or policy change down horseplayers' throats without horseplayer input?

Recently, have any racetracks reached out to HANA for input on how their services could be better?

[hopbet]

I'm having issues with the NEW web page also. I CANNOT access the BRISNET STABLE ALERT. I called and used the ONLINE CHAT with no results. They ( twin spires REP) said they are aware of the problem and working on it.

[trifecta]

I can access the "Recall Today's Bets" page to check on my bets but that's inconvenient. The Xpress/Pro interface used to show "Bet Total", "Pool", and "Selections" in the window next to the odds section on the interface, which was very convenient. Now it's not there.

I emailed them several hours ago... no response. :(

[molson721]

I'm having issues with the NEW web page also. I CANNOT access the BRISNET STABLE ALERT. I called and used the ONLINE CHAT with no results. They ( twin spires REP) said they are aware of the problem and working on it.


Just out of curiosity, did you previously use the MAIN WAGERING PAGE to access your stable alert?



I have used the Twinspires classic page to make my wagers. I didn't use it for, WHAT TAKES UP WAY TOO MUCH SPACE FOR THE FOLLOWING ITEMS I HAVE NO NEED FOR ON MY NEW WAGERING INTERFACE PAGE: Tax reports, players pools, racing results, Smartphone mobile site, horse racing tracks, $100 sign up bonus! I could go on but what seriously annoys me is it takes up too much space and reduces the size wagering interface page that shows me information I WANT WHEN I WANT TO MAKE A WAGER! I don't know who the clown is that thinks this was an improvement but who ever that person is should be fired.

Then again, Twinspires and Churchill are a CASINO COMPANY FIRST and they live by the philosophy that has helped to destroy racing over the last 7 decades. Treat the racing customer like S#!T! Then again, every year I realize why I wager less and NEVER introduce people to the game. You can only S#!t on people for so long.

[hopbet]

YES , I did

[Mdnspecialist]

I agree 100%..What is up with the dark blue margins all around the actual track listings when using the classic interface? I use a 32 inch monitor. The blue area around the track frame takes up at least 40% of the screen. Why do I want to see 32 tabs on the right side of the screen while I'm betting..A total waste of space. If I enlarge the screen so the left and right blue margins are gone..The top margin is still there...And if you hit the program tab or tools tab...you get one or two races listed below without having to scroll down. I opened up the chat box with someone at twinspires today. She said that my display on my monitor needed adjusted. I said..don't think so.. I took a pic and sent it to her. I'm sure many are complaining.

[cnollfan]

I agree 100%..What is up with the dark blue margins all around the actual track listings when using the classic interface? I use a 32 inch monitor. The blue area around the track frame takes up at least 40% of the screen. Why do I want to see 32 tabs on the right side of the screen while I'm betting..A total waste of space. I took a pic and sent it to her. I'm sure many are complaining.

Agree. I'm an old dog, but even so I hate the new look, and told them so with a picture. I use 17 inch laptop. Don't need or want blue margins taking up 40% of the screen. Put that stuff in a drop-down menu and use the space more judiciously.

[highnote]

Is there anything twinspires offers that Amwager.com or xpressbet don't offer?

[olddaddy]

Is there anything twinspires offers that Amwager.com or xpressbet don't offer?

Twinspires has an occasional good offer , cant remember xpressbet having any.
I dont know anything about amwager.

[PaceAdvantage]

Is there anything twinspires offers that Amwager.com or xpressbet don't offer?AmWager doesn't offer some of the tracks that TwinSpires has...like many if not all of the Churchill properties...that's kind of a big deal for starters.

[highnote]

AmWager doesn't offer some of the tracks that TwinSpires has...like many if not all of the Churchill properties...that's kind of a big deal for starters.

Does Churchill refuse to sell their signal to amwager?

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, on the Twinspires Express platform, my wagers aren't appearing under the Wager List tab...if anyone from Twinspires is watching...

Might want to get that fixed. It's kind of handy to know my wagers went through without having to go to ANOTHER page on your website (Recall Today's Bets) for confirmation.

Thanks.

[Mechanic]

Twinspires could not even fix the draft wagering going on months now, what makes anybody think they could redesign a complete website:lol:

my group has moved our play, Twinspires is not the only game in town.

RUN FROM TWINSPIRES IT IS ONLY GETTING WORSE:rant:

[Spicemaster]

Sorry for the trouble - there are a number of items that will hopefully be fixed overnight.

Also, a Beta of the New TwinSpires interface was released this morning. More features will be added to that one in time.

[Light]

Cannot deposit funds into TS after the facelift. Cost me a DD that paid over $100 last night @Pid. Now still can't deposit $.

[PaceAdvantage]

You can't deposit money using the link on the Express page. But you can deposit using the Deposit link on the right side menu of the "new look" home page...and that menu follows you around the site I believe.

[mikesal57]

WHAT A FREAKING SHAME TWINSPIRES IS!!!!!

They were so unprepared for putting out their "NEW" web-site but didn't want to lose the revenue that was coming from Saratoga and Del Mar , but did it anyway.....

[Spicemaster]

Express and Pro, including the wager list and the deposit button are working for me this morning....

[molson721]

WHAT A FREAKING SHAME TWINSPIRES IS!!!!!

They were so unprepared for putting out their "NEW" web-site but didn't want to lose the revenue that was coming from Saratoga and Del Mar , but did it anyway.....


It's been several days since Twinspires decided that their new website was better for the customer. I haven't found anything that makes it better for the customer and think they made it WORSE but if somebody has found something they think makes Twinspires a better ADW, please tell me the benefits of the changes they made????

[Mechanic]

It's been several days since Twinspires decided that their new website was better for the customer. I haven't found anything that makes it better for the customer and think they made it WORSE but if somebody has found something they think makes Twinspires a better ADW, please tell me the benefits of the changes they made????

please tell me the benefits of the changes they made????

they removed the ability to upload draft wagers on the NEW AND IMPROVED website:confused: :puke:

[PaceAdvantage]

Express and Pro, including the wager list and the deposit button are working for me this morning....I found that those functions were once again working today as well.

Thanks.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Is there anything twinspires offers that Amwager.com or xpressbet don't offer?

I've liked Twinspires because of the free BRIS Ultimate PPs and their track selection. But this latest change to the web site is absurd. Didn't any of the User Interface weenies consider for a moment, just a moment now, that the Classic interface still looks like Winticket (after 11 years) and the Express/Pro interface still looks like Youbet (after nine years), even though those sites were acquired long ago?

Horseplayers are old, surly rat bastards, and don't much care for changes in which no new functionality appears.

What's unforgivable in my mind those is the recent spate of cookies issues (causing logouts, recalling wager problems, etc.) and the poor quality of the video signals. I'm moving to another state next week, and I'm hoping to get a chance to try an ADW other than the Big 3.

[Spicemaster]

Don't know them all, but my personal top two are improved video and getting rid of Flash on New TwinSpires Beta...

Conditional wagering is in the queue to be updated on the New TwinSpires Beta. No timeline, but happy to hear it will be there someday.

[highnote]

I'm moving to another state next week, and I'm hoping to get a chance to try an ADW other than the Big 3.

Who are the big three -- xpressbet, twinspires, and TVG?

Where does amwager rank?

If you can let us know who you choose and post some feedback that would be much appreciated!

An ADW rating service provided by HANA would be useful to horseplayers.

[Hapman]

Man, I'm not even an old surly horseplayer I'm young, and I really do not like this new design.

I feel like they got some graphic/web designer to modernize the appearance in terms of aesthetic but forgot about function completely.

[Zydeco]

If you could minimize the big blue box on the right side and then have full screen it would be better. But that would be how it was before. lol

[Spicemaster]

what function(s) are you missing Hapman? Happy to pass along...

[highnote]

An ADW rating service provided by HANA would be useful to horseplayers.

HINT... HINT... HINT...

[Copyroomjim]

#1. Draft wager- it needs to be reinstated.

[sjk]

Agree. Need the draft wagers.

I bet a lot fewer races now than at any time in the last 20 years and I would think Twinspires would have an interest in keeping people like me around.

[Robert Fischer]

sorry if this is likely a repeated question, had little luck in the search;

HD FOR SARATOGA?

Is there a way to access the HD feed in TwinSpires?? (their standard mouseover 'high medium optimized' options all give me low-D feed)

xpressbet= perfect HD at the click of an easy-to-find button, but I use TS, so xpressbet kicks me off once a month after 2 weeks or so, and I end up betting a few token bucks there to use the feature.

NYRA = perfect HD, but my password is on the PC(i'm on my ipad or laptop) and they kick me off after 5 seconds and their password retrieval system isn't working for me.


LOL NYRA should be emailing me INVITATIONS to view them in HD so I can hear about the Dunkin Donuts late daily double and the pretzel bites, but I have to work for it :)

[Tom]

Anyone using this dinosaur of a website today?
No result, no scratches, no nothing works.

Time to withdraw and close my account - they guys are hopeless morons.

[Spicemaster]

I'm on vacation in Florida and had no issues wagering on TwinSpires classic all Travers Day - wagering was fine and NYRA video streamed fine, even if it looks like they put Vaseline on their non-HD feed.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Who are the big three -- xpressbet, twinspires, and TVG?

Where does amwager rank?

If you can let us know who you choose and post some feedback that would be much appreciated!

An ADW rating service provided by HANA would be useful to horseplayers.

Sorry for the delay responding - 2000+ mile move last couple of weeks.

Yes, the big 3 are XB, TS and TVG, IMHO. They are the only choices in states like Washington and Illinois, where the onerous state requirements squeeze out the smaller ADWs - or at least it was that way a few years ago when I last moved. Since I ended up back in Illinois instead of Indiana, I don't think I'll have any new choices to pick from or review. <sigh>

Logged into TS to check to see if Ellis is running today, 'cause it's hot. Very humid, with real feel temp 10 degrees higher than ambient. But nowhere could I find the "schedule" button on the new TS interface. It wasn't until I logged in, selected Ellis for betting, and then saw that '0' MTP for the 9th that I got the first clue it was canceled. Then I checked the more useful PA site to learn a water main break was the cause of the cancellation, and not the heat.

I did notice the new MTP displays for many other tracks I NEVER EVER PLAY do take up much of the real estate on the new menus. A very tablet oriented design, and apparently one engineered for the chronic, degenerate horseplayer who needs action every two minutes. And the video quality is a major problem for me as well.

So, while I'll keep the TS account as long as they are the only ones carrying Hong Kong, I'll just be making the token wagers at other tracks to get the free PPs, and do most of my wagering at XB. Not really in the mood to reward bad behavior and what amounts to customer abuse....

[Mechanic]

Anyone using this dinosaur of a website today?
No result, no scratches, no nothing works.

Time to withdraw and close my account - they guys are hopeless morons.

I stopped using Twinspires when draft wagering was removed, still have an account with T/S as a backup, checked on things today (new and improved) NOTHING ON THE CLASSIC PAGE WORKS! Lol what a joke, X/B along with a few others gets the action now.

[highnote]

Today is the first day of the new season for Hong Kong racing.

Unsurprisingly, twinspires did not fix the toteboard error that I have posted about over the past month or so.

At one point it was claimed by twinspire personnel that the error was on my end. When I pointed out that others spotted the same error there was only silence from twinspires.

I am waiting for an apology.

Today in races 5, 8, 9, and 10 certain horses have the amount 8388607 bet on them. This is the same amount that I have said previously is incorrect. This causes the sum of win pool total to be incorrect and therefore the odds are incorrect.

It's hard enough to beat this game, but when twinspires sends out incorrect pool data which causes incorrect odds to be displayed it makes super difficult to win.

twinspires, this is unacceptable.

You were notified over a month ago by me here on Paceadvantage.com, by others, as well, and you still let this happen again on the opening day of the Hong Kong meeting? This is unacceptable.

:ThmbDown:

[Spicemaster]

highnote, apologies for whoever told you it was your fault. It most definitely is not.

My understanding is that the random number you (and everyone else) sees is a cap limit number when the pool goes over a certain amount. Apparently when the code was written they didn't anticipate taking pools as large as those in Hong Kong.

However, it is also my understanding the odds and pools totals are unaffected - they are correct. I know they are discussing options for a fix, but no hard plans or timeline...

Will let you know if I hear more.

[highnote]

Thanks for the update!

highnote, apologies for whoever told you it was your fault. It most definitely is not.

My understanding is that the random number you (and everyone else) sees is a cap limit number when the pool goes over a certain amount. Apparently when the code was written they didn't anticipate taking pools as large as those in Hong Kong.

However, it is also my understanding the odds and pools totals are unaffected - they are correct. I know they are discussing options for a fix, but no hard plans or timeline...

Will let you know if I hear more.

From post #100 in this thread by Spicemaster:


I looked into highnote's issue and found no other reports of his complaint. It's likely a localized issue (maybe he doesn't log in/log out). First, there is no TwinSpires Supertote, even BRIS supertote was discontinued...there were no reports of bad odds (and there would have been many, if true)...good luck with your betting strategy of better odds versus the worldwide pool. Doesn't sound like we are missing any handle by helping him either way...

AltonKelsey also asked how in post #94: "How do you know it wasn't the Hong Kong feed at fault? "

I think we can now stop blaming and start fixing.

[Spicemaster]

So the apology is mine - while I told the truth, happy to make the apology.

There were no other reports according to what I was told so not sure of the priority? If the fix was in my wheelhouse I'd do it tonight!

[highnote]

So the apology is mine - while I told the truth, happy to make the apology.

Apology accepted. Thanks for looking into it.

There were no other reports according to what I was told so not sure of the priority? If the fix was in my wheelhouse I'd do it tonight!

I know for a fact that there were several reports made to various members of your staff starting at the end of the prior meeting and they were acknowledged by the staff.

Although, I believe you on both counts -- you may not have been told and you would fix it tonight!

I can tell you care about taking care of the customer :ThmbUp:, even though sometimes it might be hard to do in a bureaucracy.

[Bill F]

Over one month since Twinspires "updated" their website, and the Pro Wager Pad option is still F***ed up.

I'm using Win 7 and I've tried getting it to work with Chrome, IE, and now Firefox. The only way I can get it to open is by refreshing IE, and clicking the Wager Pad link before the webpage finishes loading.

As much as I my dislike for TS has grown, they still have a few worthwhile features that have kept me using their site (although not nearly as much as I used to).

Anybody else having issues with Wager Pad Pro?

Spicemaster or anyone else connected with TS, are there any solutions?

[AltonKelsey]

It was rather obvious that the code wasn't handling the large pool sizes.


Should have been figured out in about 5 minutes.

[highnote]

It was rather obvious that the code wasn't handling the large pool sizes.


Should have been figured out in about 5 minutes.

True, but I think TS is more focused on sports wagering than horse race wagering now that the Supreme Court made betting on sports legal.

The flood gates have been opened.

There could be a lot of money to be made if you buy stock in a company that will benefit from sports wagering. I'm not sure CD would be at the top of my list, but the company might be worth looking into if you're an investor.

[Spicemaster]

Hi Bill F, just seeing your Pro comment...if you are still having an issue there a couple of fixes that may help you.

Feel free to call Tech Support or if you prefer message me with your contact information/account number and I'll get someone to follow up with you.

[OverlayHunter]

Spicemaster - is there any chance of batch file uploads being available by the end of the year or do I (and others?) just have to move on to another ADW?

[Gorrex]

Our next release will support their CSV file structure as well as our own..

Just in case you want to give it a shot...

[Spicemaster]

I know it is being worked on and have spoken to the Product Manager, but he does not know the timing.

[PaceAdvantage]

Our next release will support their CSV file structure as well as our own..

Just in case you want to give it a shot...I must say, it's a bit unseemly seeing a competitor jump into a thread about another service and tout...especially when you aren't even an authorized advertiser...but I'll let it slide this one time because you are VIP....:pound:

[OverlayHunter]

PA, the following comment is in no way meant as a criticism of you or your policies - how you operate this site is totally at your discretion and I, for one, greatly appreciate all that you provide and do for us.

That said, what is clearly unseemly (to me) is the disdain TS shows its customers. I understand the need for a business to produce profits for its shareholders and sometimes make difficult choices and decisions but every time I turn around every CD related company that I do business with just seems to care not a bit (okay, let's be fair and say "hardly at all") for its customers. I am not an Amwager customer but I likely will be shortly (not because they posted in this thread, I've been checking them out for a couple of weeks) because I need to be able to upload files and TS can't or won't get its act together and I'm all out of patience.

[PaceAdvantage]

If indeed they are pissing off enough customers, they will suffer, and hopefully, change their ways.

Other than that, I have my own base to worry about (paying advertisers) who will complain if they see others seemingly get to advertise for free.

This also goes for the TwinSpires rep here, although to be fair, he only seems to jump in to answer questions, which is perfectly OK.

[Light]

Does anyone know why TS is using a star before Keenland's name. I figured maybe because its opening day but Hawthorne also opens today and it has no star.

[Gorrex]

Adding a star moves it to the top of the list alphabetically. Likely to help drive handle as they do more partnerships.

[Zydeco]

Just logged in to TS and couldn't find Keeneland. Came here to PA and found the solution in 5 seconds. Thanks, Gorrex and Pace Advantage!!!

[Mechanic]

twinspires should seriously think about hiring am-wager, maybe they can catch up with the rest of the ADW industry, compare TS to Xressbet or am wager, TS is way behind in the area of wagering tools:ThmbDown:

https://www.amwager.com/how-to/bet-smarter/file-upload

https://www.amwager.com/how-to/bet-smarter/preferences

https://www.amwager.com/how-to/bet-smarter/abc-wagering

TS not even close!

[olddaddy]

Two of the biggest international races of the year, first the Arc and now the Caulfield Cup not being taken by twinspires. Ridiculous

[AltonKelsey]

Any ADW that doesnt support Batch Upload is inept.



Period




You listening NYRA?

[sjk]

I am about ready to give up on them.

My account record shows that I made around 8,000 bets the first part of the year when the uploads were working and only 2,000 since and it is not nearly as enjoyable.

[olddaddy]

Twinspires are accepting minimum $2 bets on dd's today while others are accepting $1 minimum.

[Parkview_Pirate]

For any of you who have tried the new TS "beta" web experience going live on December 10th, you're in for a treat. Not. Just an awful interface for using on a PC. I thought the last update was bad, but this is even worse.

Again, you would think a company that's had to support old interfaces dating back to the Winticket and Youbet days would understand their clientele are not all 11 year olds with a zippy tablet. And you would be wrong.

Change for the sake of change ONLY, introducing no new functionality or capability is pretty pointless. Having to poke around to find the right buttons is a serious waste of time. If the goal is to drive users to other ADWs, I would describe the recent changes as quite successful. In two changes they've taken what I enjoyed as the one of the best interfaces, to easily the worst of the big three (TS, Xpressbet and TVG).

TS will remain an ADW for PPs only for me.....

[djm1959]

i love it so to each his own,less searchin on a pc.....video works with info..like the app on the phone.. bigger print for old eyes......:headbanger::headbanger::headbanger:

[sjk]

The classic wagering menu with its straightforward exacta price display is gone now.

I really have no reason to ever visit Twinspires other than withdrawals.

[Robert Fischer]

today when i signed in, the settings were completely changed to some 'program' looking thing. I was lucky to figure it out to make my bet. Trying now to get it back to what it was...


edit - now figured it out... I am accustomed to 'TV' setting, and for some reason they randomly had me on this giant program thing... I got it now

[TexasDolly]

today when i signed in, the settings were completely changed to some 'program' looking thing. I was lucky to figure it out to make my bet. Trying now to get it back to what it was...


edit - now figured it out... I am accustomed to 'TV' setting, and for some reason they randomly had me on this giant program thing... I got it now

How did you manage to get back to something useful ? I generally use the classic screens,tote etc . This is a catastrophe,and I have been on the phone
waiting for a rep for almost 20 minutes.
TD

edit : I just now got cut off ,it's hard to imagine that a place that relies on convenience and speed to make money could end up like this .

[highnote]

The classic wagering menu with its straightforward exacta price display is gone now.

I really have no reason to ever visit Twinspires other than withdrawals.

Anonymous TS Executive to sjk:

"Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

[sjk]

Actually I spoke with a fellow at Twinspires the other day and I think he was sincere in wanting to help me but I don't think he will be able to.

[Robert Fischer]

How did you manage to get back to something useful ? I generally use the classic screens,tote etc . This is a catastrophe,and I have been on the phone
waiting for a rep for almost 20 minutes.
TD

edit : I just now got cut off ,it's hard to imagine that a place that relies on convenience and speed to make money could end up like this .

I had to click the thing in the top right corner that looks like a person icon (or a pawn in chess), then go to 'preferences' then go to 'use twinspires tv' ...

it still forces me to see a giant program thingy with a 'betslip' when i open 'recall today's bets' in a new window. I liked the simple 'printout' style that used to have, still trying to figure out how to get that back...

[TexasDolly]

I had to click the thing in the top right corner that looks like a person icon (or a pawn in chess), then go to 'preferences' then go to 'use twinspires tv' ...

it still forces me to see a giant program thingy with a 'betslip' when i open 'recall today's bets' in a new window. I liked the simple 'printout' style that used to have, still trying to figure out how to get that back...

Thanks Robert that did the trick for the first part . I'll see how it goes for the other functions I am used to.

TD

[Ray2000]

Thanks Robert Fisher

I clicked that button in top right corner -->preferences and got to the classic interface.

these people (twin) have the worst site in the business.

there's a long wait for live chat right now, 14 people in queue :mad:

[highnote]

Actually I spoke with a fellow at Twinspires the other day and I think he was sincere in wanting to help me but I don't think he will be able to.

The ones who are willing to help are not the ones calling the shots.

TS and CD seem to forget how they got their start -- horse racing. Without horse racing they would not exist.

[Robert Fischer]

can't figure out how to see Daily 'wagers/ret/total +or-' ...

used to be able to hit 'recall today's bets' and see a simple account of today's actions

I know how to find 'detailed account history' after clicking a few menus, but I believe this page currently only updates to the previous day (so I can see action through 12/09 yesterday)...

All the old 'recall today's bets' gives me is their new 'betting slip' interface, but no totals...


I mean, I can figure it out in my head... I know where I was, and where I am now...

and there are some nice things about the new interface... I just don't want to lose features or complicate usability

[Quesmark]

New and improved isn't always better,this new TS format is a Frankenstein monster hybrid platform now.
Sure nowadays having a mobile app is necessary,yet there can be separate but equal needs met for those betting through a phone somewhere,or at home.
My preferred wagering choice has always been the TS "Express Pro" interface which IMO had everything needed to stay informed about one's account.
Clicking on the "wager log" only brings up a few recent bets instead of the whole days activity,and where's the cancel button?
There seem to be so many downgrades,who was this designed for?

[lamboguy]

the people at Twinspires monitor this board. i realize its tough to admit they made such a big mistake with this platform. all they had to do was keep the old one and they would have no beef. but they spent money on this thing and they won't change back so fast. but this one was a major blunder because i see plenty of problems with the interface that is going to cause people making mistakes punching in their bets. if it was me, i would switch back tomorrow and not think any thing of it and put this new platform right on the shelf where it belongs.

[ReplayRandall]

New and improved isn't always better,this new TS format is a Frankenstein monster hybrid platform now.

Remember when Coca-Cola introduced New Coke?...Colossal mistake, went quickly back to the old Coke formula....Same mistake here with TS.

[sjk]

Thanks Robert Fisher

I clicked that button in top right corner -->preferences and got to the classic interface.

these people (twin) have the worst site in the business.

there's a long wait for live chat right now, 14 people in queue :mad:

You would have thought they could have told me about this when I practically begged for a solution.

I just spent an hour building a workflow off the xpressbet page

[JimG]

Only thing I see under preferences is Remember your username.

[acorn54]

if you don't like twinspires take your business elsewhere, it is called CAPITALISM.

[agameofskill]

Only thing I see under preferences is Remember your username.

Apparently some people are seeing that, and others like myself are seeing 3 choices of the old platforms.

[Mechanic]

Apparently some people are seeing that, and others like myself are seeing 3 choices of the old platforms.

you get the old choices ONLY if you are a VIP member, I use T/S as a backup and still qualify as vip, and yes the new wagering interface is bad, I thought we were told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? or was it WE ARE WORKING ON IT (conditional wagers / batch wagers) they must have given up, over their heads. :rip:

[Zydeco]

Thanks Robert Fischer. Found the classic interface.

[lamboguy]

Remember when Coca-Cola introduced New Coke?...Colossal mistake, went quickly back to the old Coke formula....Same mistake here with TS.
i remember that kicked off one of the most successful marketing campaigns of all time. the same thing could happen here! that would be a brilliant move if they happened to have planned this ahead of time.
i can see them say that we listened to our customer's and acted fast.

[agameofskill]

you get the old choices ONLY if you are a VIP member, I use T/S as a backup and still qualify as vip, and yes the new wagering interface is bad, I thought we were told if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor? or was it WE ARE WORKING ON IT (conditional wagers / batch wagers) they must have given up, over their heads. :rip:

Thanks mechanic. That makes sense.

[098poi]

OMG I just got home and opened TS. AHHHH. Thanks to you guys (and gals) I was able to return to my familiar interface which is like the old YouBet. Please don't lose that option!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dahoss2002]

Thanks Robert Fisher

I clicked that button in top right corner -->preferences and got to the classic interface.

these people (twin) have the worst site in the business.

there's a long wait for live chat right now, 14 people in queue :mad:

another thanks Robert!. I like the express interface personally. One thing for sure, the new one sucks. I emailed them and told them it sucks also. Im sure they give a rats ass too

[mikesal57]

Thank God Classic is still there ...all other new stuff there is too cumbersome


the only thing I suggest is a link to the FREE PP's on Classic Page

[Tom]

This is the worst garbage I have ever seen.
How do I get to a menu to find anything???
I log in, after hunting through ridiculously huge fonts, I go to PARX R1.

Xpressbet just became my new ADW - canceling this ridiculous POG today.

[mikesal57]

This is the worst garbage I have ever seen.
How do I get to a menu to find anything???
I log in, after hunting through ridiculously huge fonts, I go to PARX R1.

Xpressbet just became my new ADW - canceling this ridiculous POG today.

AGREE!!!

PIECE OF SHIT SITE....

Took me 30 mins to find 'race replays"

Mike

[Robert Fischer]

Give them some credit, they did fix this. Feature is back:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

used to be able to hit 'recall today's bets' and see a simple account of today's actions

[Tom]

Remember when Coca-Cola introduced New Coke?...Colossal mistake, went quickly back to the old Coke formula....Same mistake here with TS.

I'd rather drive my Edsel to but NEW Coke than use the new TS site!

[thaskalos]

When I go to a movie theater and watch a terrible movie, I ask myself if the creators of this movie ever sat down and watched this film before they released it. I asked myself a similar question when I first saw the new Twinspires interface. Which executive there considers this to be an "improvement"?

[PaceAdvantage]

I suppose it's geared towards tablets and smartphones?

And why in the world would they limit the ol' reliable YouBet interface to VIPs?

They really need to change that policy, and pronto....

[JimG]

I put this in another thread but thought it might help some here:

I don't really use the website much, but there is a workaround even if you are not a vip. First, sign in to the current crappy site, then immediately go to classic or old youbet view by typing the address in your browser.

The classic site is:

https://www.twinspires.com/wager/go

The express site is:

https://www.twinspires.com/php/tsexpress/2.3/index.php

Works for me even though I rarely use it. Thought it would help some of you.

Jim

[mikesal57]

I put this in another thread but thought it might help some here:

I don't really use the website much, but there is a workaround even if you are not a vip. First, sign in to the current crappy site, then immediately go to classic or old youbet view by typing the address in your browser.

The classic site is:

https://www.twinspires.com/wager/go

The express site is:

https://www.twinspires.com/php/tsexpress/2.3/index.php

Works for me even though I rarely use it. Thought it would help some of you.

Jim

Thxs Jim...I'll set this up as my bookmark
most likely , you'll have to log-in each day
and who knows where that will lead me

:lol:

[mikesal57]

Thxs Jim...I'll set this up as my bookmark
most likely , you'll have to log-in each day
and who knows where that will lead me

:lol:

NO-GOOD


I closed browser....

Used the Classic Link

Logged in

BACK TO FU&*^%$G crap page again...


PS- I'm sure Spicemaster is back hiding under his rock
Once again , they change things without asking ...

[JimG]

NO-GOOD


I closed browser....

Used the Classic Link

Logged in

BACK TO FU&*^%$G crap page again...


PS- I'm sure Spicemaster is back hiding under his rock
Once again , they change things without asking ...

It is good. Read my directions carefully Mike.

[mikesal57]

It is good. Read my directions carefully Mike.

You cant go directly to Classic site from link...

When you first log-in ...the crap site aLWAYS comes up FIRST
THEN YOU CAN USE YOUR LINK

THATS HOW MY BROWSER IS...MAYBE YOURS DIFFERENT

[JimG]

You cant go directly to Classic site from link...

When you first log-in ...the crap site aLWAYS comes up FIRST
THEN YOU CAN USE YOUR LINK

THATS HOW MY BROWSER IS...MAYBE YOURS DIFFERENT

Mike, As I stated earlier:

1) Sign into the crappy site first.

2) After you are signed in, then go directly to one of the 2 links.

3)As I stated, it is a workaround. You will have to do this each time you sign in.

[Tom]

Jim, I tried your link - it still takes me to a race coming up instead of the Classic.
I did find it funny - and it goes to the intelligence of the those idiots who run TS - the first screen I get to says WELCOME, please sign in using the form on the left.......and the form is on the RIGHT! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Morons!

Apparently, selecting a preference is only for the current session.
Maybe TS will hire some high school kid to clean up their incompetent programming that is not capable of setting a preference that works.

[mikesal57]

This is the best part.....

It asks you what your "preference" is.....

Turned it on....select "Classic"


Guess where it goes when you log in again.....


You got it.....CRAP

So what does it remember?

I know...That we are axxholes...for coming back

[JimG]

My workaround was for people that did not have that option Mike. You are evidently a vip member, so my post was not directed to you. I was trying to help, and caused confusion. No good deed goes unpunished. :lol:

Jim

[mikesal57]

Mike, As I stated earlier:

1) Sign into the crappy site first.

2) After you are signed in, then go directly to one of the 2 links.

3)As I stated, it is a workaround. You will have to do this each time you sign in.

OOOOOO...so sorry...I thought it was a DIRECT Link that we can bookmark...


See what TS is doing to me....making me do stupid things too


I WAS a VIP?????


What does it say for me....

Now I'm taking my $20 and going
elsewhere..

[JimG]

Jim, I tried your link - it still takes me to a race coming up instead of the Classic.
I did find it funny - and it goes to the intelligence of the those idiots who run TS - the first screen I get to says WELCOME, please sign in using the form on the left.......and the form is on the RIGHT! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Morons!

Apparently, selecting a preference is only for the current session.
Maybe TS will hire some high school kid to clean up their incompetent programming that is not capable of setting a preference that works.

Tom,

My workaround was for those of us that do not even have the preference. I have no idea how it works for VIP members with that preference.

Jim

[098poi]

I have the option and am surprised I am a VIP. My current balance is $.80 and when I do deposit it is $100 at a time usually with a gap of a month or more between. I had a YouBet account for a long time and maybe that carried over. Don't tell them though! I don't want to lose my options!!

[mikesal57]

I have the option and am surprised I am a VIP. My current balance is $.80 and when I do deposit it is $100 at a time usually with a gap of a month or more between. I had a YouBet account for a long time and maybe that carried over. Don't tell them though! I don't want to lose my options!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[summersquall]

/QUOTE]The express site is:

https://www.twinspires.com/php/tsexpress/2.3/index.php

Works for me even though I rarely use it. Thought it would help some of you.

Jim [QUOTE] Thank you for providing this workaround. Once logged in the URL loads directly to the previous unaltered express site bypassing the nonsense. Zero balance since migrating from YouBet as State law mandates on-track wagering exclusively. Still enjoy watching them run.

[JerryBoyle]

Call me crazy, but the new interface isn't that bad. Everything is on one page, which is great and modern, it's fairly intuitive, it's easy to see which bets I've made/have queued up. All the probables/will pay info is there if you want to scroll down. I was using the interface which loaded up an entirely diff site (forget what it's called, maybe Twin Spires TV?), but that required an ungodly amount of clicking. This gives me everything on one page.

I understand that it's a time honored tradition for horse players to complain but give it a shot. We constantly harp on the industry for not changing, then when they try to change, we brutally slaughter them for going away from what's comfortable. Maybe take a day or 2 betting thru the site, getting used to it, *with an open mind*, then file complaints.

[mikesal57]

Call me crazy, but the new interface isn't that bad. Everything is on one page, which is great and modern, it's fairly intuitive, it's easy to see which bets I've made/have queued up. All the probables/will pay info is there if you want to scroll down. I was using the interface which loaded up an entirely diff site (forget what it's called, maybe Twin Spires TV?), but that required an ungodly amount of clicking. This gives me everything on one page.

I understand that it's a time honored tradition for horse players to complain but give it a shot. We constantly harp on the industry for not changing, then when they try to change, we brutally slaughter them for going away from what's comfortable. Maybe take a day or 2 betting thru the site, getting used to it, *with an open mind*, then file complaints.

"Everything is on one page"

Only one race is on there...if your a multi-track player ......you lose a lot...and the clicking is more...

Also

They took away "conditional" and "multi-bets" options long ago and said it was going to be fixed...and this is what we get

[Tom]

I am going to place a bet with a dope who doesn't know his left from his right? :lol:

What are you using to view the site, Jerry?
On my desktop, I have to reduce the screen so much in order to get it all on the screen that when I go to other sites, they are so small I can't read them at all.

[JerryBoyle]

I am going to place a bet with a dope who doesn't know his left from his right? :lol:

What are you using to view the site, Jerry?
On my desktop, I have to reduce the screen so much in order to get it all on the screen that when I go to other sites, they are so small I can't read them at all.

Using a 13" macbook pro to view, so my screen is very small. I assumed it would get better when I viewed it on a monitor but haven't tried.

[JerryBoyle]

"Everything is on one page"

Only one race is on there...if your a multi-track player ......you lose a lot...and the clicking is more...

Also

They took away "conditional" and "multi-bets" options long ago and said it was going to be fixed...and this is what we get

Point taken - never used an interface where I had multiple tracks up for viewing/betting at one look. I find switching between tracks with this layout to be easier than the old layout I was using on TS.

[mikesal57]

Point taken - never used an interface where I had multiple tracks up for viewing/betting at one look. I find switching between tracks with this layout to be easier than the old layout I was using on TS.


I wouldn't take a poll to see how many players bet more than one track at a time :confused:

Mike

[mikesal57]

Jerry....


do me a favor.....


go to yesterday replays with-in 10 seconds like I was able to do it before...

if you can find it....:lol::lol::lol:

[Parkview_Pirate]

It's nice to be able to navigate back to the Classic, err, Winticket interface. If being a VIP is a requirement, I wonder how long that will last when I have $2 bets per card to "pay" for my BRIS PPs?

I don't know what the details are in their decision to go down this path, but it has to be about trying to save a nickel or two. Which would mean that eventually they'll sunset the interfaces other than the new one to save support dollars.

Since TS doesn't seem interested in providing an interface that actually adjusts to the device display being used (ie, mobile vs. desktop), they are going to lose a lot of customers like me that mainly use a 24 inch monitor.

I have no clue to whether their IT staff is just this incompetent, or if their management is just this callous, but regardless - a business that treats their customers with repeated changes for the worse is not going to survive much longer...

[098poi]

This is the screen I use. I love it. It feels active. I can see the odds, exactas, will pays, everything. If I want another track boom just click. Those other interfaces make me feel disconnected from the track and the races. i hope they don't lose this.

[Tom]

If I use that page, I have to set the size so small to get it to fit the screen that I can't read any of the text.

TS TV is out because I will not use FLash player.

Classic is my choice - it barely fits the screen now.

What I am trying to figure out is, what was wrong with the old website? Everything was there, it all fit......there was a homepage with links to all the various sections of the site.

btw, the new BRIS site STILL sucks.:lol:

And while we are at it, the NYRA site, what is that hat stupid banner along the bottom third or so of the screen? IT serve no purpose and you can't get of it. Why is it there?

It just throws the proportions of everything else off.
Why waste 30% of your screen size for bulshit stuff?

[KyRacer]

If I use that page, I have to set the size so small to get it to fit the screen that I can't read any of the text.

TS TV is out because I will not use FLash player.

Classic is my choice - it barely fits the screen now.



Hi Tom,

I like and use TwinSpires TV. I will be very sad and mad if they drop it later. You can set your browser to run flash only on that site. Never had any security problems that way. I also have the Classic site running at the same time. I don't mind them adding the new stuff as long as they don't get rid of the old ones and make it easy to get to them.

[JohnGalt1]

All I want from an ADW is a teller or SAM in my room to make quick and easy bets.


My data I get from the pp's that I download to the pp generator.


Twin Spires Classic is easy for me to use.


I'm 64 and just bought my first cell phone in 2017.
Comcast/Xfinty had a deal where I paid $175 for the phone and got a $150 debit card. If I make only phone call or text messages I only pay $2.50 a month for the taxes. So I'm also cheap.

Technology is useful to me as long as it's not too technological.

[mikesal57]

All I want from an ADW is a teller or SAM in my room to make quick and easy bets.


My data I get from the pp's that I download to the pp generator.


Twin Spires Classic is easy for me to use.


I'm 64 and just bought my first cell phone in 2017.
Comcast/Xfinty had a deal where I paid $175 for the phone and got a $150 debit card. If I make only phone call or text messages I only pay $2.50 a month for the taxes. So I'm also cheap.

Technology is useful to me as long as it's not too technological.

Question: who was the first one you called?

[JohnGalt1]

Question: who was the first one you called?

My brother.

Still haven't texted anyone yet.

When my power went out this summer, knocking out the power to my land line due to underground line problem, my cell phone came in handy.

[Tom]

Technology is useful to me as long as it's not too technological.

The trouble with technology is that idiots use ti fix things that are not broken.

New and different are not always better.
Most times, it is worse.

[Hosshead]

Mike, As I stated earlier:

1) Sign into the crappy site first.

2) After you are signed in, then go directly to one of the 2 links.

3)As I stated, it is a workaround. You will have to do this each time you sign in.

Thanks a bunch Jim.
All I get also is "remember your username". And I have been with them since "YouBet".
Your link Works !!
I would NEVER bet with TS again unless I can get the express look. Something they better fix FAST !
Since you can't go directly there until logging in etc.....
Is there an easier way than putting your link on MS Word and copying
before pasting?

With this much trouble, I can see a withdrawal and ExpressBet on the horizon.
Looks like TwinSpires doesn't really care anyway.

And someone mentioned the race replays.
When I finally found the page, there was ONE little Word in the paragraph that linked to the replays.
Very Hidden. :ThmbDown:

I haven't posted here in a very long time, but this awful site change, (where my money is, soon WAS), has made me very angry.:mad:

_______

[KenP]

I shouldn't complain since the last year has been a very quiet year for me wager wise, but I am not a fan of the new interface. It appears designed to make it easier to buy products and deposit money, rather than betting utility. When Twinspires acquired Youbet, I was relieved they kept most of the things I liked about Youbet. The TV page is also a nice wagering utility. I'm not sure what I will do if they totally eliminate the interfaces I like. AmWager is not available, TVG looks a little like the new Twinspires, and Expressbet had improved the last time I looked at it, but not enough to make me switch at the time. I'll adjust, but I don't have to be happy about it.