Will Tiger Woods make the cut at the US Open?

[letswastemoney]

Right now he's...+7 after 8 holes...

The cut is at +6, but it could move up. C'MON TIGER!

[letswastemoney]

Bogey. Now at +8.

[letswastemoney]

Double bogey on his 10th hole. Unless a miracle happens, the cut is out of reach.

[metro]

Obviously depends on how the afternoon guys shoot. Weather conditions seem better than yesterday and a couple of the holes were made shorter.

iirc, earlier they were saying cut line around 10 but think it comes down to about 8 when play is done.

[letswastemoney]

Projected cut is at +8. Tiger is at +10.

It would be heartbreaking if it moved to +9 lol.

[ElKabong]

Put a fork in tiger. No more majors. One is an outside possibility, but I seriously doubt it.

Speith's temper is his Achilles heel. He just doesn't seem to be mature enough to maintain what he had going 2 yrs ago. Wouldn't surprise me to see him win only one or two more, tho I hope I'm wrong about that.

[MutuelClerk]

Not a fan of Speith. He plays soooooo slow and can't seem to order breakfast without his caddie there. Was glad he missed the cut.

[ElKabong]

Speith is hard to watch, agreed. In addition to being slow, his tantrums are a turn off. Even tho he's a Longhorn I find myself pulling for him to tank each week. If he matures I'll root for him again but until then....

[jocko699]

Speith is hard to watch, agreed. In addition to being slow, his tantrums are a turn off. Even tho he's a Longhorn I find myself pulling for him to tank each week. If he matures I'll root for him again but until then....

Even more reason not to like him, ROLL TIDE!!!!!

[PhantomOnTour]

Tiger simply cannot play with these guys. They look like he did when he was young. He is physically overmatched, period.
Koepka and Johnson look like Adonis out there.
Tiger won't win another tournament, much less a major.
It's over, and it has been for a long while.

[FakeNameChanged]

Speith is hard to watch, agreed. In addition to being slow, his tantrums are a turn off. If he matures I'll root for him again but until then....
Funny, that sounds like what I used to say about Andre Agassi, and he finally matured to win 8 Grand Slams in tennis. And the competition wasn't exactly light during his career.

[AndyC]

Tiger simply cannot play with these guys. They look like he did when he was young. He is physically overmatched, period.
Koepka and Johnson look like Adonis out there.
Tiger won't win another tournament, much less a major.
It's over, and it has been for a long while.

There is zero evidence that Tiger is over-matched physically. His swing speed is as high as he has ever had. There are many ways to lose a golf tournament and Tiger has tried to use quite a few of the ways during his comeback.

[PhantomOnTour]

There is zero evidence that Tiger is over-matched physically. His swing speed is as high as he has ever had. There are many ways to lose a golf tournament and Tiger has tried to use quite a few of the ways during his comeback.

The results are more than enough evidence for me. Swing speed schwing speed....means nothing to me. Some still believe he's capable of regaining his old form.
I'm not one of them.

[metro]

Tiger simply cannot play with these guys. They look like he did when he was young. He is physically overmatched, period.
Koepka and Johnson look like Adonis out there.
Tiger won't win another tournament, much less a major.
It's over, and it has been for a long while.

Tiger did fine on the physical part last week, driving similar distances as Dustin Johnson and Justin Thomas. It's the approach shots and touch around the green where his game is failing him.

[AndyC]

The results are more than enough evidence for me. Swing speed schwing speed....means nothing to me. Some still believe he's capable of regaining his old form.
I'm not one of them.

You said it was physical. There are plenty of reasons for not shooting low scores but physical isn't one of them for Tiger. Despite his awful performance this year he is in the top 20 for scoring and driving distance. He is 3rd in approach shots into the green. Not Tigeresque but certainly not the performance of some broken down wantabe-good-again golfer. He is no longer one of the elites but he is still a top tier golfer.

I don't believe anybody thinks that Tiger will regain his old form where he won 25%+ of his starts. But I sure wouldn't bet against him winning another tournament.

[thaskalos]

If Tiger's performance problems aren't "physical", then what are they...MENTAL? Wasn't he considered a paragon of "focus" and 'mental strength' in his heyday?

[AndyC]

If Tiger's performance problems aren't "physical", then what are they...MENTAL? Wasn't he considered a paragon of "focus" and 'mental strength' in his heyday?

To steal a line from Yogi, "Ninety percent of the game is half mental". Who could argue with that?

[thaskalos]

To steal a line from Yogi, "Ninety percent of the game is half mental". Who could argue with that?

But Tiger was considered a "mental giant" in his heyday. Why is he a mental "weakling" NOW?

[AndyC]

But Tiger was considered a "mental giant" in his heyday. Why is he a mental "weakling" NOW?

Who said he is a weakling? As a player ages it is very common in competitive golf to lose the ability to hyper focus for a full 18 or 72 holes. As to why, life happens, perspectives change, attitudes change, desires change, etc.

[thaskalos]

Who said he is a weakling? As a player ages it is very common in competitive golf to lose the ability to hyper focus for a full 18 or 72 holes. As to why, life happens, perspectives change, attitudes change, desires change, etc.

Tiger's drastic decline cannot be attributed to the "aging process"...or any other physical "deterioration". His game fell apart once his personal problems befell him...and he is now no-where near the Tiger of old, as far as his mental state is concerned. His self-confidence is gone...and so is any chance of him winning another significant golf tournament. "Mental toughness" is another name for SELF-CONFIDENCE...and Tiger's is no-where to be found. Put a fork in him...

[cj]

Wouldn't shock me if Tiger won another tournament, but it would shock me if he won another major.

[AndyC]

Tiger's drastic decline cannot be attributed to the "aging process"...or any other physical "deterioration". His game fell apart once his personal problems befell him...and he is now no-where near the Tiger of old, as far as his mental state is concerned. His self-confidence is gone...and so is any chance of him winning another significant golf tournament. "Mental toughness" is another name for SELF-CONFIDENCE...and Tiger's is no-where to be found. Put a fork in him...

Tiger's personal problems befell him in late 2009 and forward from there. How is it that he won 8 out of 35 starts in 2012 and 2013 with a game that fell apart? It was in late 2013 when his back became a big problem. From 2014 through 2017 he played a whopping 18 tournaments with only 1 tournament played in 2016-2017. He has played 10 tournaments this year and has 2 top 5 finishes. How is he able to do that with NO SELF CONFIDENCE? Of course he is not the same Tiger of old, but there is a wide spectrum of confidence levels that range from no confidence to old Tiger confidence. I think he is closer to old Tiger than to no confidence.

[burnsy]

To steal a line from Yogi, "Ninety percent of the game is half mental". Who could argue with that?


Those "Yogiisms" are somehow accurate if you figure them out! :lol:

I don't think people (Even Tiger himself) realize how detrimental back issues are. I've had the shots (both kinds) and the surgery. You are never the same, even if it feels better.

[Tee]

Driving distance is fine - accuracy is not. Greens hit in regulation not much better. To top it all off the putter isn't exactly hot either. Not a recipe for winning golf tournaments.

[lansdale]

Rough break for Tiger in the Open, but I think, to be expected -- believe this was his first major in three years. As he said himself, if you haven't played a major in awhile, you tend to lose sight of the reality that the courses are tougher, the setups are tougher, and of course, the competition is tougher.

It's an open question whether he'll win another major, but, as the article I've linked below suggests, his window is closing fast. Only 24 golfers since 1900 have won a major over the age of 40, only two over the age of 45. In the past 25 years, there have been only five. So, a golfer over 40 wins ca. 1/20 of all majors.

The average and median age of a major winner is 32. And, as one would guess ca. 65% of all majors are won by players between 26-35. Since 1960, more than 75% of majors were won by golfers under 35.

All this jibes 100% with some research for a project a couple of years back (when I was younger and better ;-) about age-related human performance. Intellectual abilities peak at 21 (except for judgement) and for most pro athletes their career peak is 26-30. This shouldn't surprise anyone -- we know this from watching sports. What most pro sports fans usually don't notice though, is that there is a very sharp decline at age 37-38, which most seems to affect reflexes, vision, and hand-eye coordination, in general. One researcher pointed out to me the late career stats of two great players as an example -- Babe Ruth and Derek Jeter. Their hitting stats virtually fell off a cliff at about this age -- other examples abound, but it's most noticeable in players of this order.

As one poster here observes, Tiger was last playing well in 2013 -- in fact he won five tour events (although no majors) and was named Player of the Year -- and this was years after the disruption of his marriage. That year he also turned 37. Since then he's been plagued by the ongoing complications from his back and knee injuries and barely played at all. He said that last year before his spinal fusion, he thought he'd never play again.

So, since Tiger has played so little in recent years, it's difficult to distinguish between the all factors that might affect his play -- not only the effect of layoff time and his recovery from the spinal fusion, but simply the natural decline of the aging process, which affects him in exactly the same way as it would any other human -- forget about athlete.

Those who chalk up his problems to lack of 'mental toughness', should ask whether Derek Jeter suddenly lost his ability to hit due to lack of 'mental toughness'.



https://www.golfchannel.com/article/joe-posnanski/does-age-really-matter-golf-yes-it-does/

[cj]

He played in the Masters.

[thaskalos]

In post #10 of this thread, it was suggested that Tiger is "physically over-matched" against today's top golfers. But in post #12...AndyC was quick to reply that "there is zero evidence" to suggest that Tiger's problems on the course are of a 'physical' nature. So...I subsequently opined that Tiger's problems are "mental". But now it seems that my friend Lansdale has proven ME to be wrong, as well.

So...I ask: If Tiger's problems are neither "physical", nor "mental"...in which category could they possibly fall?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

In post #10 of this thread, it was suggested that Tiger is "physically over-matched" against today's top golfers. But in post #12...AndyC was quick to reply that "there is zero evidence" to suggest that Tiger's problems on the course are of a 'physical' nature. So...I subsequently opined that Tiger's problems are "mental". But now it seems that my friend Lansdale has proven ME to be wrong, as well.

So...I ask: If Tiger's problems are neither "physical", nor "mental"...in which category could they possibly fall?


Tiger's problems are both physical and mental.


Find a player on tour right now with as serious of surgeries to his knee and back that are still playing. (You won't find one).


His mental issues are self-produced. The whole sex scandal and divorce were not only scandalous but also devastating to his golf career and public acceptance. He only has himself to blame.


He still has the physical skills and mental ability to win on the PGA Tour. Get in position on a Sunday in a Major, and I'm sure nobody would be surprised if he won.


I think he is mentally unsure right now. That will come with practice and more playing. Especially at that high a level. He loses way too many shots and makes too many big numbers right now. I feel confident he'll win again. He has made some major steps forward this year. He'll keep moving forward. Whether it will be good enough again remains to be seen.

[AndyC]

In post #10 of this thread, it was suggested that Tiger is "physically over-matched" against today's top golfers. But in post #12...AndyC was quick to reply that "there is zero evidence" to suggest that Tiger's problems on the course are of a 'physical' nature. So...I subsequently opined that Tiger's problems are "mental". But now it seems that my friend Lansdale has proven ME to be wrong, as well.

So...I ask: If Tiger's problems are neither "physical", nor "mental"...in which category could they possibly fall?

Clearly you haven't competed in golf nor any other athletic events based on your questions. Can you think of a player in baseball, football, golf, basketball, etc. that plays at the highest level every game or event? But let's stick to golf. How can a player go from missing the cut one week to winning a tournament the next? Competing at the highest level requires focus. Some competitors are able to achieve high levels of focus more often than other competitors. Tiger clearly has lost that ability. He has not lost the ability to hit a golf ball as well as anyone playing.

[thaskalos]

Clearly you haven't competed in golf nor any other athletic events based on your questions. Can you think of a player in baseball, football, golf, basketball, etc. that plays at the highest level every game or event? But let's stick to golf. How can a player go from missing the cut one week to winning a tournament the next? Competing at the highest level requires focus. Some competitors are able to achieve high levels of focus more often than other competitors. Tiger clearly has lost that ability. He has not lost the ability to hit a golf ball as well as anyone playing.

You are right, I have never competed in any type of athletic event in my life...that's why I am asking an athlete like you: What has caused Tiger to lose the "ability to focus"...in your opinion? The only way I can learn new things is by asking people who are smarter than me. :ThmbUp:

[JerryBoyle]

Clearly you haven't competed in golf nor any other athletic events based on your questions. Can you think of a player in baseball, football, golf, basketball, etc. that plays at the highest level every game or event? But let's stick to golf. How can a player go from missing the cut one week to winning a tournament the next? Competing at the highest level requires focus. Some competitors are able to achieve high levels of focus more often than other competitors. Tiger clearly has lost that ability. He has not lost the ability to hit a golf ball as well as anyone playing.

Isn't it a littler too early to say he has clearly lost it? He is competing on tour. He hasn't won, sure, but he's had a few top 10/20s, right? If the qeustion is, is his problem mental or physical, it seems like a poor question. There are players who make a career out of the comeback he has had, right? Perhaps he is finished and it's physical or mental, but seems to me that it's likely shaking off rust or just a new norm of not standout golf, but still really good golf

[AndyC]

Isn't it a littler too early to say he has clearly lost it? He is competing on tour. He hasn't won, sure, but he's had a few top 10/20s, right? If the qeustion is, is his problem mental or physical, it seems like a poor question. There are players who make a career out of the comeback he has had, right? Perhaps he is finished and it's physical or mental, but seems to me that it's likely shaking off rust or just a new norm of not standout golf, but still really good golf

Absolutely too early. He has lost it for now, but he might get it back. Tiger's mental skill and focus has been honed since he was 10 years old in competitive golf. I certainly will cut him him some slack being that he has had limited competitive rounds in the last 4 years. My point is simply that golf is a blend of physical and mental skills and that Tiger's game is not lacking on the physical side at this point.

[incoming]

Excellent discussion....I just reviewed the long and tedious list of Tiger's records.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_career_achievements_by_Tiger_Woods. I don't ever see Tiger being satisfied with mediocre. This would be his only attainable goal at his age. I think his return to competitive golf can only be answered with the decreasing attenance in golf in recent years.

Golf equipment has evened the competition.

[Tee]

The last time Tiger played what you could possibly call a full schedule was 2013 & that was only 16 events. He happened to win 5 of those starts.

Since that period he has played 91 round of competitive golf. The young guns of the tour play nearly that many rounds in a season.

Time away from the game doesn't do anyone any good especially when it involves back fusion surgery. All the off the course stuff probably hasn't done him any good - to what degree who really knows.

Ask Sang Moon Bae what his mandatory military service did for his golf game.

There's golf & then there's tournament golf. I have hated it when Tiger has said this in the past, but it is true today. He needs the reps & even with that it may not be enough.

[lansdale]

He played in the Masters.


Yes - and he at least made the cut there. I also misremembered the intent of the quote, which was more of a cliche -- he just mentioned all the obvious obstacles of playing in majors, with no reference to his need to reacclimate himself. But as others have said in this thread, that does seem to be the process he's undergoing.

[lansdale]

In post #10 of this thread, it was suggested that Tiger is "physically over-matched" against today's top golfers. But in post #12...AndyC was quick to reply that "there is zero evidence" to suggest that Tiger's problems on the course are of a 'physical' nature. So...I subsequently opined that Tiger's problems are "mental". But now it seems that my friend Lansdale has proven ME to be wrong, as well.

So...I ask: If Tiger's problems are neither "physical", nor "mental"...in which category could they possibly fall?

Hi Thask,

Reading through your posts in this thread, it strikes me that you're look at TW mainly from a gambler's perspective, as people naturally do on this site. When you (or others) ask 'is he back?', you're asking whether he's back in the hunt, whether somebody can bet on him. But i think it's pretty clear, that the answer is 'no' for now, and maybe for the remainder of his career. He's never going to be the player he was 15 years ago. He's just out there trying to play as well as he can -- which is actually the best he's played since 2013. Right now he's 52nd in money-won, but 22nd in money-per-tournament, which is not bad for a guy who was in so much pain he could barely get out of bed 18 months ago. For me this is a human interest thing, rather than a gambling or sports thing -- because TW, who doesn't need more fame or money, is now doing what the great majority of people who were never world class anything do every day -- the best they can.

Cheers,

lansdale

[Inner Dirt]

There is zero evidence that Tiger is over-matched physically. His swing speed is as high as he has ever had. There are many ways to lose a golf tournament and Tiger has tried to use quite a few of the ways during his comeback.


He is playing golf with a fused lower spine, those things go together like oil and water. playing golf is hard on someone with back issues. I played once a week average from the age of 10 till I had my spine fused at the age of 39. No one ever says "I used to have a bad back".

The fusion just takes away the extreme issues, you are not good as new. Pretty sure Tiger battles various levels of discomfort and stiffness on a daily and sometimes hourly basis. It has to effect his game. I tried playing after surgery, for a guy who shot in the low 80's, the extra back problems from playing golf were not worth it. All the meds and physical therapy help, but life after that operation is not a bowl of cherries.

[rastajenk]

Whether Woods is back, on his way back, capable of winning...however you want to put it, it will depend on improving his putting. When he was winning consistently, everything inside 10 feet was going in the hole; now, most of them don't. Until that changes, I still see a gap between "in contention on Sunday" and "winning."

Personally, I think he would be a good candidate for shortening to a small-ball strategy instead of trying to keep up with the big-hitting young lads. It's a lot easier to shape a shot from the fairway than it is from the weeds. So I'm told. :cool:

[AndyC]

He is playing golf with a fused lower spine, those things go together like oil and water. playing golf is hard on someone with back issues. I played once a week average from the age of 10 till I had my spine fused at the age of 39. No one ever says "I used to have a bad back".

The fusion just takes away the extreme issues, you are not good as new. Pretty sure Tiger battles various levels of discomfort and stiffness on a daily and sometimes hourly basis. It has to effect his game. I tried playing after surgery, for a guy who shot in the low 80's, the extra back problems from playing golf were not worth it. All the meds and physical therapy help, but life after that operation is not a bowl of cherries.

What you wrote above may be true but it doesn't provide any evidence that Tiger is currently over-matched physically. His history of back issues may result in him being over-matched in the future.

[AndyC]

I think Jack believes that Tiger is swinging better than ever. https://www.golfchannel.com/video/nicklaus-tigers-golf-swing-best-it-has-ever-been/?cid=Email_WednesdayNL_20180627

[Inner Dirt]

He is playing golf with a fused lower spine, those things go together like oil and water. playing golf is hard on someone with back issues. I played once a week average from the age of 10 till I had my spine fused at the age of 39. No one ever says "I used to have a bad back".

The fusion just takes away the extreme issues, you are not good as new. Pretty sure Tiger battles various levels of discomfort and stiffness on a daily and sometimes hourly basis. It has to effect his game. I tried playing after surgery, for a guy who shot in the low 80's, the extra back problems from playing golf were not worth it. All the meds and physical therapy help, but life after that operation is not a bowl of cherries.

What you wrote above may be true but it doesn't provide any evidence that Tiger is currently over-matched physically. His history of back issues may result in him being over-matched in the future.


Maybe I should have said he will never be as physically good as he once was, even without the father time factor. Tiger obviously used to have a very high level of fitness and athleticism for a golfer, so it could be 75% of Tiger still matches 100% physically of the average PGA tour golfer.

[AndyC]

Maybe I should have said he will never be as physically good as he once was, even without the father time factor. Tiger obviously used to have a very high level of fitness and athleticism for a golfer, so it could be 75% of Tiger still matches 100% physically of the average PGA tour golfer.

I would say that physically Tiger matches or exceeds the top level PGA tour golfer at the present time. Of course, one swing could change everything for the worse at any time. His ongoing durability is certainly in question.

[letswastemoney]

He shot even par today, with a new Taylor Made mallet putter.

[AndyC]

He shot even par today, with a new Taylor Made mallet putter.

It sure didn't help his putting.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I'll never stop cheering for the greatest player I've ever seen in my lifetime.