Zell Miller

[schweitz]

Wow---so that's why he was the keynote speaker---quite a speech.

[PaceAdvantage]

He was somethin' else, wasn't he? To think, he introduced Bill Clinton at the Democratic National Convention years ago!!!

You gotta love that! His appearance on Hardball right after was almost as good.

You can't make this stuff up....reality is always so much better!

[JustMissed]

How good was that speech.

It's like he hit Kerry in the knee with a pipe and now Bush just has to finish him off.

Man, I think he would have kicked Chris Matthews ass if he had been in the same room.

It don't get much better than this stuff.

If Kerry don't come out swinging he'll be knocked out for sure.

JM;)

[Lance]

http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Lance
http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm


This looks like the same speech Tim Russert rolled out on MEET THE PRESS when Miller was his guest ~ a month ago. Russert asked "why did you give that speech and now feel differently", Miller replied (paraphrased) 'Because that was the speech they had written up for me to give. My speech at the convention will be straight from the heart.'

Also note that the speech Lance linked was pre 9-11. Anyone listening to Miller tonite realizes he thinks of that event as a turning point in the way he views political priorities....His speech was damning as hell, and he'll be another thorn in kerry's hide down the stretch.

[Lance]

"Because that was the speech they had written up for me to give."

Priceless.

[ElKabong]

If you saw his speech tonite, "priceless" was a decent term for it. "Moving" would be another. A transcript won't do it justice, wish I'd taped it.

[schweitz]

Originally posted by ElKabong


Also note that the speech Lance linked was pre 9-11. Anyone listening to Miller tonite realizes he thinks of that event as a turning point in the way he views political priorities....

That says it all---

[ElKabong]

JM,

You're right, Kerry is coming out swinging next week per the radioheads. Hired on a couple of ex Clinton advisors recently, apparently he's not happy the way the Swifts have handed him his ass.

Bring it on johnnie, the POW ads will come out soon. You'll have to carry that baggage around with you till Nov2....kerry's a loser, i would have put the farm on him winning but he's watching it melt right in front of his eyes.

[Lance]

"Moving" is always a good term for Zig Zag Zell. If you saw him on Hardball tonight, "nutjob" is another one.

[ElKabong]

Chris Matthews may never be the same after tonight. Hope he brought his vaseline tonite, Zell worked him over pretty good.

(1) Worked Matthews over for the way he treated Malkin (a woman) on his show 2 weeks ago, (2) told Matthews to 'shut up if you want me to answer your question' (chrissy has a habit of shouting down his repub guests in mid-sentence), (3) "Chris, do you know what an 'analogy' is...do you?

In short, Chris likes to bull over his guests that aren't far left, he ran into a guy tonight that ripped his head off, then spit on his ass.

[ElKabong]

http://www.gopconvention.com/cgi-data/speeches/files/ie65ay1zuai2r6ttb19uj6s2y6q7930j.shtml

Here's a transcript of Miller's speech. I hope lsbets can give this a look after he settles in.

[Lance]

Matthews was asking Miller softball questions. Miller misunderstood them, blew his stack, and made an ass out of himself. This will be clear if anyone can find the transcript. Malkin (sp?) implied that Kerry intentionally shot himself. She, too, made an ass out of herself. Miller is not a Republican. After tonight, it's tempting to accuse him of being a loyal Democrat. Finally, are you putting quotation marks around paraphrases?

[ElKabong]

"miller is not a republican".

Duh!

Here's a transcript. Not official msnbc, but one to chew on.

http://www.nationalreview.com/kerry/kerryspot.asp

Also, here's a video link, scroll down, click on sept1.

http://www.gopconvention.com/cgi-data/speeches/files/ie65ay1zuai2r6ttb19uj6s2y6q7930j.shtml

As for the Malkin interview, he attacked her on the swift issues, yet he readily admitted he hadn't even SEEN the book. Read her blog, at the break he rifled thru the pages of her book she brought to see just how bad he effed himself by lying on his show.

Tonite he got his just desserts. Zell knew what he was dealing with and "took the trash out".

[Lance]

Please tell me exactly where Matthews lied, and please give me your policy on quotation marks. As for the transcript, I want to see the whole thing. National Review left out the best parts, as could be expected.

[PaceAdvantage]

LOL

The Republicans ain't gonna sit around and take shit anymore. They're fightin' back, and I for one approve mightily.

Michael Moore started this thing.....you can thank him if all this stuff ends up deflating Kerry's balloon. Maybe his new staff will be able to pick up the broken pieces of his campaign.

[Equineer]

Zell Miller... the only man to be the keynote speaker at both conventions... here is a nice piece on Zell, who is proud of his hillbilly name.

http://www.slate.com/Default.aspx?id=2105700&

[Lance]

"The Republicans ain't gonna sit around and take shit anymore."

Has NYPD Blue changed its profanity policy?

"Michael Moore started this thing"

Bush started it with his disgusting campaign against McCain in 2000.

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Lance
Please tell me exactly where Matthews lied, and please give me your policy on quotation marks. As for the transcript, I want to see the whole thing. National Review left out the best parts, as could be expected.

Lance,

I was paraphrasing. If that bothers you, it's your problem, not mine. I even linked a transcript and a clip to view.

Quit acting like a liberal dem and go look up the complete transcript for yourself. Stop depending on others to spoon feed you. I linked a clip, go watch it.

I saw it, laughed my ass off. Crissy wanted to play hardball, he wound up on the ass end this time. The look on his face was "priceless".

[PaceAdvantage]

Bullshit is most definitely used on NYPD Blue....not sure if shit is, but is there really a difference? Me thinks not....but probably some suit at ABC does if they in fact do not use the word shit.

Either way, I won't use it again for a long time....just like NYPD Blue, I have a limit to the number of times profanity can be used by an individual poster.

If you'd like all the rules and regulations, send a self addressed, stamped envelope to 10201 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035


Thanks for your support!

[Lance]

"I was paraphrasing. If that bothers you, it's your problem, not mine."

If you paraphrase inside quotation marks, it's your problem.

"Quit acting like a liberal dem and go look up the complete transcript for yourself."

I see. You call someone a liar, and then when I ask you for proof, you tell me to look it up myself. Priceless.

[PaceAdvantage]

Stop quibbling over crap and get to the meat of the matter!

[Lance]

"I have a limit to the number of times profanity can be used by an individual poster."

I don't recall ever using it here. How many free shots do I get?

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Lance
"
I see. You call someone a liar, and then when I ask you for proof, you tell me to look it up myself. Priceless.

I assumed you could look up links....my bad.

[PaceAdvantage]

You'll know it when you see it....and remember, the "NYPD Blue" level of standards and practices is in play here....

Carry on.

[Lance]

"I assumed you could look up links....my bad."

You are trying to prove your case based on a bullshit blog entry? Priceless. You called a man a liar. How about proving it? I'm open to proof. I don't like Matthews.

[JustRalph]

Hey Lance........ I think you have the NYPD standard down pat. Just like Sipowitz, you are starting to show your ass:D


I just had to say that for fun...........not offense intended.....you opened the door, I just walked in.............just having fun with you

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Lance
"I assumed you could look up links....my bad."

You are trying to prove your case based on a bullshit blog entry? Priceless. You called a man a liar. How about proving it? I'm open to proof. I don't like Matthews.

As usual, you need a conservative to do your leg work....you're almost as bad as Sec...

Click on the word "lies" after clicking the link below (Malkin knows how to call them!). Read the whole page before replying.

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/2004_08.htm

Only someone who had not read Unfit for Command would interpret what I was saying the way Matthews did. The book raises questions by vets, many of whom were with Kerry, about whether there was or wasn't enemy fire during the Dec. 1968 incident that led to his first Purple Heart (Patrick Runyon is quoted in a Boston Globe account on p. 35 saying "I can't say for sure that we got return fire or how [Kerry] got nicked. I couldn't say one way or the other. I know he did get nicked, a scrape on the arm.") and whether the injury came from a self-inflicted wound after he caught a tiny piece of shrapnel when he fired a grenade from his M-79 grenade launcher too close (p. 36); whether or not there was "intense rocket and rifle fire" during the Feb. 1969 incident that led to his second Purple Heart (Rocky Hildreth, officer of an accompanying boat on Dam Doi Canal that day, says there was no "intense rocket and rifle fire" on p. 78); and whether the shrapnel wound in his buttocks, which Kerry says he sustained in March 1969 and led to the awarding of his third Purple Heart, was the result of a mine explosion while on a mission or from a wound from his own grenade that he set off too close to a stock of rice he was trying to destroy (p. 87). See also pages 30-31. I was trying to get to these points, but Matthews would not let me finish a sentence.

Well, guess what? This foaming jerk Matthews, who called me irresponsible and kicked me off the show admitted that a) he himself had not read the damned book, b) he was not interested in asking Kerry about the specific doubts raised by vets about his wounds, and c) he had not and would not question Kerry about these specific allegations................

As the show broke for commercials, Matthews scrambled for his producers to see if what he said was true. And I'm irresponsible? One staffer ran to the office where I had left my copy of the book, and handed it to Matthews, who--for the first time, apparently--started flipping through it. I asked for my book back and politely said thank you. After I left, he trashed me again on the air and his scurrilous charges were repeated by his MSNBC colleague Keith Olbermann, who called me an "idiot."

[Lance]

OK. Where did Matthews lie?

[Lance]

Ralph,

No offense taken.

[ElKabong]

lance, (matthews lie)

Matthews invited Malkin to the show to review *her* book. It turned out to be a butcher job on a book she did NOT write, leaving his guest unprepared (but not as unprepared as Crissy). After one segment on Unfit for Command, she was kicked off the show....Never got to talk about her book (as promised)

If you ask someone on your show to review YOUR book, then make it the topic. Don't throw a curveball by LYING to the guest and run with another topic....(Haven't even touched on teh fact that Matthews doesn't understand the swiftboat issue, he still gets events mixed up.)

>>So, my publicist arranges for me to go on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews on Thursday night to talk about my recent columns on the FBI and national security profiling and my new book.

>>1) Matthews introduces me, says we'll get to the subject of my book "in a minute," and launches into a spiel about how Bush should order the Swift Boat Vets to stop running their ads. Matthews intentionally mischaracterizes me as "speaking on behalf of the Bush campaign," when he knew full well I was there (with special permission from FOX News) to talk about my book, which he had sitting right next to him on the table and which he had chatted with me briefly about before the start of the segment. I correct him. He does not acknowledge his error.

>>Well, guess what? This foaming jerk Matthews, who called me irresponsible and kicked me off the show admitted that a) he himself had not read the damned book, b) he was not interested in asking Kerry about the specific doubts raised by vets about his wounds, and c) he had not and would not question Kerry about these specific allegations.

"Are you saying he shot himself on purpose?" Matthews hammered. I repeated myself again clearly that I was referring to the allegations about self-inflicted wounds in the book. When I tried to explain that the vets who were with Kerry had cast a lot of doubt on whether enemy fire occurred during the first two incidents, Matthews cut me off again. "Why did you say that?" he badgered. Because, I said, I was talking about what was in the book, which he had admitted he hadn't read.

"Don't you wonder?" I asked.

"No, I don't," he bellowed. "It's never occurred to me."

With that, I was kicked off the second segment.

[JustRalph]

I just watched the replay of Zell Miller and his speech. I have to tell you, if I was a Democrat leader, I would feel like I just took a public ass whoopin.

I saw the replay of him on Hard Squall. I didn't think it was that rough an exchange between Mathews and him.

You gotta admit it was kind of funny.

[Lance]

"Matthews invited Malkin to the show to review *her* book. It turned out to be a butcher job on a book she did NOT write, leaving his guest unprepared (but not as unprepared as Crissy). After one segment on Unfit for Command, she was kicked off the show....Never got to talk about her book (as promised) If you ask someone on your show to review YOUR book, then make it the topic. Don't throw a curveball by LYING to the guest and run with another topic...."

Even if you accept this woman's story, there is no lie here. They got into a fight because Matthews kept asking her if she thinks Kerry intentionally shot himself, and she refused to say no. She kept referring to "self-inflicted" (an ambiguous term because it doesn't specify intent) and then back to the book, which would leave people at home thinking maybe Kerry did intentionally shoot himself. This pissed Matthews off. So he kicked her off the show before they could discuss her book. You call this a lie? Please. Moreover, on page one of this string, you wrote:

""As for the Malkin interview, he attacked her on the swift issues, yet he readily admitted he hadn't even SEEN the book. Read her blog, at the break he rifled thru the pages of her book she brought to see just how bad he effed himself by lying on his show."

What lie are you referring to here?

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Lance
[B

Even if you accept this woman's story, there is no lie here. They got into a fight because Matthews kept asking her if she thinks Kerry intentionally shot himself, and she refused to say no. She kept referring to "self-inflicted" (an ambiguous term because it doesn't specify intent) and then back to the book, which would leave people at home thinking maybe Kerry did intentionally shoot himself. This pissed Matthews off. So he kicked her off the show before they could discuss her book. You call this a lie? Please. Moreover, on page one of this string, you wrote:

[/B]


Lance,

You need to read this many times. Move your lips while doing so if it helps.

--Malkin was asked on the show to review her book. She came prepared to do so....Instead, Matthews decided to get her on the show for an entirely different reason, one she wasn't prepared to talk of. Matthews even introduced Malkin as "speaking of behalf of the Bush campaign" on the Kerry Medal Fraud issue. She was no such thing, she was there to discuss her book (per Matthews invitation).

**Matthews lied to Malkin as to why she was coming on the show. ** Do you deny this?

[Lance]

You ignored my second question. I will respond to both parts of this at once. So please answer it.

[ElKabong]

It's right there in black and white, Lance. Can you not read? Does someone have to hold your hand while crossing the street?

Turn in some food stamps for reading lessons....You'll find your answer.

[Lance]

You are all insults, no answers.

[ElKabong]

I just gave you his lie (asking her on for a talk of her book, then ambushing her on a different subject altogether)....You're all repetition, no content.

[PaceAdvantage]

Lance sounds just like Sec, LJB and HCAP....very interesting....

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Lance sounds just like Sec, LJB and HCAP....very interesting....


;)

definition of "is" goes on forever.

[Lance]

This is preposterous, of course. Hardball is not Booknotes. Guests must be prepared to discuss what's in the news in addition to their books. To call Matthews a liar over this is ridiculous, and you know it.

Here we go again:

You wrote:

"As for the Malkin interview, he attacked her on the swift issues, yet he readily admitted he hadn't even SEEN the book. Read her blog, at the break he rifled thru the pages of her book she brought to see just how bad he effed himself by lying on his show."

OK, he rifled through the book to see how bad he hurt himself by lying about WHAT? What "lie" of his could be exposed in this book?

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Lance
This is preposterous, of course. Hardball is not Booknotes. Guests must be prepared to discuss what's in the news in addition to their books. To call Matthews a liar over this is ridiculous, and you know it.

Here we go again:

You wrote:

"As for the Malkin interview, he attacked her on the swift issues, yet he readily admitted he hadn't even SEEN the book. Read her blog, at the break he rifled thru the pages of her book she brought to see just how bad he effed himself by lying on his show."

OK, he rifled through the book to see how bad he hurt himself by lying about WHAT? What "lie" of his could be exposed in this book?


I just gave his lie...You asked, I delivered.

Do you have anything else to discuss about Matthews getting his ass handed to him tonight or are you going into "is" mode again?

[Lance]

"Lance sounds just like Sec, LJB and HCAP....very interesting...."

How so?

[Lance]

"I just gave his lie...You asked, I delivered."

Right, asking his guest a question about what was in the news. You made another allegation about Matthews lying, but you can't support that one, either. Priceless.

[JustMissed]

Lance, I hope all your DemLib buddy's are like you.

Here it is 60 days from the election, you candidates campaign in going down the creek in a hurry and here you are wasting time defending a second rate talking head, Chris Matthews, and attacking a relatively unknown newsperson.

I don't get it but keep it up.

Maybe you should get on the Kerry's email list like the other boys so you can keep on point.

I am not sure, and seems like Kerry is not sure, but I think you are suppose to be defending Kerry and attaching Bush?hehehe.

You guys just crack me up.

Keep up the "good work".

JM

[Tom]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Lance sounds just like Sec, LJB and HCAP....very interesting....

I don't think interesting is the right word....I would use.....Amazin!

And I thought it might nice to do a Michale Moore interpretation of the speech Lance so graciously posted a lnk for.....

"...He is married to Teresa Heinz and they have two daughters.
It turns out John is a fellow dog lover....."
MM, can I come work for you? LOL!

[betchatoo]

Flip Flop

http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm

[Lance]

Tom wrote:

"I thought it might nice to do a Michale Moore"

Oh, you thought it "might nice" to do a "Michale Moore," did you? I thought it "might nice" for you to read these things before you send them, Tom, especially if you are going to call President Bush a "POS" and an "idiot" again.

[Lance]

JustMissed wrote:

"I think you are suppose to be defending Kerry and attaching Bush?"

Who I "suppose" to "attach" Bush to, JM? I believe you are in over your head again. You should stick to what you know. Get your scale out. Weigh the speakers at the GOP convention. Then tell us who is too fat to lead the country. When you try to do more than that, the Peter Principle does you in.

[Tom]

Originally posted by Lance
Tom wrote:

"I thought it might nice to do a Michale Moore"

Oh, you thought it "might nice" to do a "Michale Moore," did you? I thought it "might nice" for you to read these things before you send them, Tom, especially if you are going to call President Bush a "POS" and an "idiot" again.


Nice to see you are as totally irrelevant as always, Lance. Sorry your liberal education left you unable to decipher typos and read the actual words. But then, I can see from your post that the only thing you are interested in is arguing with people. Hey, have at it. It's a free country....anyone can be as big an A... as they want to.
Have you run out of real arguments so soon? Nothing intellectual to offer anymore? Have to resort to attacking spelling/typos?
My, Lance, what a very shallow person you are. Are you in office by any chance?
After reading your posts for a few weeks now, I have to ask the obvious....are you James Carvell?:D

[Lance]

Tom wrote:

"I have to ask the obvious....are you James Carvell?"

Carvell? Well, at least you didn't confuse Huey Newton with Huey Lewis today. You did that yesterday.

[Tom]

Thank you for proving my point. :D

[Lance]

Tom wrote:

"Thank you for proving my point."

Tom: Your point was that President Bush is a "POS" and an "idiot." Those are your words. I have been trying for some time to get you to defend your point. But you won't. You are content to call the president names and then run away. I disagree with what you called President Bush. I would like to defend him, but it is hard when you keep running away.

[JustMissed]

Originally posted by Lance
JustMissed wrote:

"I think you are suppose to be defending Kerry and attaching Bush?"

Who I "suppose" to "attach" Bush to, JM? I believe you are in over your head again. You should stick to what you know. Get your scale out. Weigh the speakers at the GOP convention. Then tell us who is too fat to lead the country. When you try to do more than that, the Peter Principle does you in.

Hey Lance, sorry you felt compelled to comment about my typos rather than address the substance of my post.

Let's see, the Peter Principle, doesn't that have to do with reaching one's level of incompetence. Not sure what that has to do with misspelling "supposed" & "attack" but maybe I don't have a superior mind like you do.

JM

[Lance]

"Hey Lance, sorry you felt compelled to comment about my typos rather than address the substance of my post."

Your political posts have no substance. You make fun of how much 50yo women weigh, and you make stupid assumptions about why I defended Matthews. Nice work. Make copies of your "fat wives" posts and hang them on your refrigerator.

[JustRalph]

sorry, I just can't vote for this duo..........

[ponyplayer]

LOL :D :D :D

[JustMissed]

Originally posted by Lance
"Hey Lance, sorry you felt compelled to comment about my typos rather than address the substance of my post."

Your political posts have no substance. You make fun of how much 50yo women weigh, and you make stupid assumptions about why I defended Matthews. Nice work. Make copies of your "fat wives" posts and hang them on your refrigerator.

Hey Lance, Remember a few weeks ago someone posted a photo of John and Teresa Kerry in the window of their Victory Train. John Kerry was holding two ears of corn in his hand and the caption was something like this:"Hey, We need more corn, Mrs. Edwards is hungry". I laughed so hard I fell off my computer chair.

Can you imagine a multimillioniare trial attorney preparing to run for President of the United States and later for Vice President of the United States, not saying "Honey, I'm going to hire you a personal trainer and dietian, ok?. Or at least he could have said "Honey, Don't you think you have had enough Ding Dongs tonight, you know we should show we have some self discipline when we are running for national office".

John Kerry can't control his wife, obliviously John Edwards can't control his wife, and you expect the American people to put their trust in two men who are quite frankly, Pu**y Whipped. I don't think so.

President George Bush works out every day, Mrs. Bush said publically that she has to watch what she eats because she attends so many luncheons and dinners that if she isn't disciplined, she puts on weight.

Hey, can you name one vice president that's wife was bigger than Mamma Cass. I don't think so. Heck, Nancy Reagan, Mrs. Carter and Mrs. Nixon were pencil thin.

You have lost buddy and that is a fact. Go lick your wounds and get over it.

IMO, you would be a lot better off to go ahead and start supporting President George Bush and join the team.

Just my take on things.

JM






















:)

[ElKabong]

Anyone else think they were married to Lance (female type) at one time or another? You answer a question, and Lance comes back with "that's no answer" or "here's what you said years ago"... :D

[Tom]

Come on guys, remeber when you were in the 6th grade, how much fun it was to do stupid, immature little things all the time, just to annoy people? Back when your heads were just full of mush and nobody expected anything intelligent out of you anyway? Must be they coverd spelling in class this month and Lance is proud of his new skills. Wants to show them off.
Let Lance have his childhood. When he grows up, we can expect something of susbtance from him. I assume the internet will still be around in 15-20 years.

Quiz time: Which words are mis-spelled:

Betweene
Interactive
Tantative
Evoltuionary

Mechanacl
Enthrawled

[hcap]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Lance sounds just like Sec, LJB and HCAP....very interesting....
Hi guys, just thought I might bring up some minor points.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5897622/

GOP backs away from Miller's blast

After gauging the harsh reaction from Democrats and Republicans alike to Sen. Zell Miller's keynote address at the Republican National Convention, the Bush campaign - led by the first lady - backed away Thursday from Miller's savage attack on Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, insisting that the estranged Democrat was speaking only for himself.

Asked about Miller's deeply personal denunciation of his own party's nominee, Laura Bush said in an interview with NBC News that "I don't know that we share that point of view." Aides to President Bush and his campaign said Miller was not speaking for all Republicans.

Late Thursday, Miller's name was removed from the list of dignitaries who would be sitting in the first family's box during the president's acceptance speech later in the evening. No explanation was immediately offered.

also a flip floppin wonder...

Three years ago Miller called Kerry one of the "nation's authentic heroes."

Introduction of Senator John Kerry

Democratic Party of Georgia's
Jefferson-Jackson Dinner

March 1, 2001

I'm proud to be Georgia's junior senator and I'm honored to serve with Max Cleland, who is as loved and respected as anyone in that body. One of our very highest priorities must be to make sure this man is re-elected in 2002 so he can continue to serve this state and nation.

I continue to be impressed with all that Governor Barnes and Lieutenant Governor Taylor and the Speaker and the General Assembly are getting done over at the Gold Dome. Georgia is fortunate to have this kind of leadership.

My job tonight is an easy one: to present to you one of this nation's authentic heroes, one of this party's best-known and greatest leaders - and a good friend.

He was once a lieutenant governor - but he didn't stay in that office 16 years, like someone else I know. It just took two years before the people of Massachusetts moved him into the United States Senate in 1984.

In his 16 years in the Senate, John Kerry has fought against government waste and worked hard to bring some accountability to Washington.

Early in his Senate career in 1986, John signed on to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Deficit Reduction Bill, and he fought for balanced budgets before it was considered politically correct for Democrats to do so.

John has worked to strengthen our military, reform public education, boost the economy and protect the environment. Business Week magazine named him one of the top pro-technology legislators and made him a member of its "Digital Dozen."

......John is a graduate of Yale University and was a gunboat officer in the Navy. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star and three awards of the Purple Heart for combat duty in Vietnam. He later co-founded the Vietnam Veterans of America.


Btw "I continue to be impressed with all that Governor Barnes...are getting done ". Let's see how impressed Ole' Zelly is when Mr Barnes relates how he helped dubya, and other clients.

After Bush graduated from Yale in 1968, his slot in the Texas Air National Guard allowed him to avoid active duty service in Vietnam. The former speaker of the Texas state House, Democrat Ben Barnes, now admits he pulled strings to get Bush his coveted guard slot, and says he's "ashamed" of the deed.

"60 Minutes" will air an interview with Barnes next Wednesday

According to The Washington Post, "A review of Bush's military records shows that Bush enjoyed preferential treatment as the son of a then-congressman, when he walked into a Texas Guard unit in Houston two weeks before his 1968 graduation from Yale and was moved to the top of a long waiting list."

George W. Bush: "They just had an opening for a pilot and I was there at the right time."

[ElKabong]

Yet another liberal kerrybot posting up a pre 9-11 article....It's like they don't leave the house!

Miller stated things changed for him on 9-11. He's right. Kerry's getting his ass handed to him in the polls because he doesn't understand our world changed that day. When we saw people jumping out of 50+ floors from the WTC, "it's the economy, stupid" took a hike. We're at war.

As for Laura's comments, that's a woman's POV. Wouldn't surprise me of she was playing the diplomat. Gaurantee you she was hi fivin GW from afar when Miller was putting his size 11's to Kerry's ass.

Miller was preaching to the choir. He brought the house down. The expression on the crowds faces and their cheers said it all.

Miller rocks.

[Tom]

El.
Some are trying to tell the world the Hollocaust never happened.
Maybe they are trying to deny 9-11-01 now.

Miller had the new republican motto when he said,"Get out of my face!"

Miller is proof that there is hope for the Dems....if they take their medicine (truth) they can be cured. LOL

[ljb]

Zig Zag Zell , the heart and soul of the Republican party. A giant leap back to the eighteenth century. ;)

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
Zig Zag Zell , the heart and soul of the Republican party. A giant leap back to the eighteenth century. ;)


Zell woke up 9-11-2001. He's living in today's world. Catch up to him, you'll be glad you did. Bring Flip Flop with you.

[JustMissed]

Please consider what Senator Miller did and just walk across that aisle.

All DemLibs will be welcomed to join with President Bush in moving our great country forward.

Just think what we can accomplish if all of us work together under the leadership of George Bush.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

JM
:)

[hcap]

Mr Kabong,

Just a friendly reminber- 60 minutes and the Barnes interview coming up

So you guys continue to blow smoke with the Swifties.
Amazin' that the candidate in the hot seat is the one who actually went to Vietnam and was injured in the line of duty, and fought, offically winng medals, rather than the one who used possibly used family connections to do his service at home and then didn't bother to show up for duty.

Barnes has some conflicting testimony to clarify
No contact with the Bushies? Maybe but if that is the case, the preznit still breezed his way ahead of others rightfully before him. Compare that to Kerry who choose to fight.

Of course if Barnes spills some more about Evans and Sid Adger, well the comparison the Swifties pales into silliness.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/04/27/bush_guard/print.html

Jim Moore

"The irony in all of this is that I am largely responsible for reducing access to those records. During the 1994 Texas gubernatorial race between Ann Richards and George W. Bush, I was a panelist on the only televised debate between the two candidates. The question I chose to ask Bush first was about the National Guard. I had lost friends in Vietnam, and many of them had tried to get into the Guard. We were all told that there was a waiting list of up to five years. The Guard was the best method for getting out of combat in Vietnam. You needed connections. George W. Bush had them.

"Mr. Bush," I said. "How did you get into the Guard so easily? One hundred thousand guys our age were on the waiting list, and you say you walked in and signed up to become a pilot. Did your congressman father exercise any influence on your behalf?"

"Not that I know of, Jim," the future president told me. "I certainly didn't ask for any. And I'm sure my father didn't either. They just had an opening for a pilot and I was there at the right time."

Maybe. But it's more likely he was there at the right time with the right name. Col. Buck Staudt, who ran the air wing in which Bush served, had filled his "champagne unit" with the politically connected and wealthy. The sons of U.S. Sens. Lloyd Bentsen and John Tower of Texas were in that unit, along with the son of Texas Gov. John Connally and the two sons of Sidney Adger, George H.W. Bush's closest friend in Houston. I should have let that speak for itself. "

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=861

The 147th, Col. Staudt’s Texas unit, was infamous as a way out of Vietnam combat for the politically well connected and celebrity draft avoiders: Both of Sid Adger’s sons, Democratic Senator Lloyd Bentsen’s son, Republican Senator John Tower’s son, and at least seven players for the Dallas Cowboys had been signed into the unit.

What made Bush’s unfair, favored Guard appointment doubly reprehensible was his total lack of qualifications. Rapid selection into the Guard was reserved for applicants with exceptional experience or skills such as prior Air Force ROTC training, or special engineering, medical, or aviation skills.

Tom Hail, a historian for the Texas Air National Guard, had reviewed the Guard’s records on Bush for a special exhibit on his service after Bush became governor. Asked about Bush’s direct appointment without special skills, Hail said, “I’ve never heard of that. Generally they did that for doctors only, mostly because we needed extra flight surgeons.”


When Bush completed basic training, his commander approved him for a “direct appointment.” That made him a 2nd Lieutenant without having to go through the usual (very difficult) Officer Candidate School. This special procedure also got Bush into flight school, despite his very low scores on aptitude tests: 25% on a pilot aptitude test (the absolute lowest acceptable grade) and 50% for navigator aptitude. Bush did score 95% on the easier and subjectively graded officer quality test, but the class average is generally 88%.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_08_29.php#003369


The Barnes story isn't a new one. And the relevant dates of it and the office Barnes was serving in at the time have never been questioned. It happened during the time Barnes was Speaker of the House in Texas. In the past, he went to great lengths to avoid discussing. But after being forced to discuss it in a civil suit deposition in 1999, he made a brief public announcement.

Houston Chronicle from September 28th 1999 ...

" Austin lobbyist Ben Barnes said Monday that as speaker of the Texas House more than 30 years ago, he recommended George W. Bush for a pilot's position in the Texas Air National Guard at the request of a Bush family friend."

But Barnes, in a statement issued by his lawyer, said he was not contacted by a member of the Bush family and had "no knowledge" that either the future governor or his father, former President Bush, who was then a congressman from Houston, knew of his intervention.

In fact, not only has Barnes been consistent and his account not been questioned, even Bush himself and his campaign have accepted Barnes account. All they have insisted on -- though it is quite improbable -- is that they did not know at the time about his actions and were not involved in any way in requesting it.

The president even went so far as to thank Barnes in a personal note for being clear that he had no direct, personal knowledge that the Bush family had contacted the intermediary who contacted him. Consider this clip from a September 27th, 1999 Associated Press story ...

Barnes testified for several hours Monday in a deposition in the case. Afterwards, his lawyer issued a written statement saying Barnes had been contacted by the now-deceased Sidney Adger, a Houston oilman and friend of the elder Bush.

''Mr. Barnes was contacted by Sid Adger and asked to recommend George W. Bush for a pilot position with the Air National Guard. Barnes called Gen. (James) Rose (Texas Air Guard commander) and did so,'' the statement said.

''Neither Congressman Bush nor any other member of the Bush family asked Barnes' help. Barnes has no knowledge that Governor Bush or President Bush knew of Barnes' recommendation,'' the statement said.

Barnes also said he met in September 1998 with Donald L. Evans, a longtime friend and chief fund-raiser for Governor Bush. Barnes told Evans about Adger's request, and ''Governor Bush wrote Barnes a note thanking him for his candor in acknowledging that Barnes received no call from any member of the Bush family.''

In an interview with The Associated Press, Evans said he met with Barnes on his own initiative, without informing the governor in advance. At the time, he was Bush's gubernatorial campaign chairman and was concerned only about that contest, Evans said

And there continues to be some doubt about what Bush actually did while Kerry was risking his neck.

http://doonesbury.msn.com/strip/bush_guard.html

In 2000, concerned veterans in both Texas and Alabama offered cash rewards to lure former guardmates of Mr. Bush into stepping forward, to no avail. The problem, in our view, was that these enticements weren't serious enough, that the sums offered were insulting. In contrast, we at the DTH&WP respect how inconvenient it can be to subject yourself to worldwide media scrutiny in general, and Fox News in particular, and are thus prepared to sweeten previous offers by a factor of five. That's right, we're offering $10,000 cash! Yours to either spend or invest in job creation. All you have to do is definitively prove that George W. Bush fulfilled his duty to country.

http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=166

"Payable to Any Texas Air National Guard Airman With Proof of 1st Lt. George W. Bush
“In Person” Performing Any Scheduled Non-Flying Duties at Ellington Air Force Base Between May 1972 to July 30, 1973

$2,000 REWARD

How come nobody collected?

[hcap]

How much damage have the Swifties done?
I'm sure MORE than the dems would like but the election is a few months away, and time for dirt on both sides to get a flingin'.

The bushies have some deeper concerns than Barnes. The latest spy scandal involving Franklyn, the neocons, Chalabi and the outing of Valerie Plame, is going to be bubbling to the top. Yes, it appears all connected.

Get ready for some serious mud slinging.

[PaceAdvantage]

What's it like having a fellow Democrat get up before the country on national television and not only skewer your party, but your presidential candidate all at the same time?

It has to be a little unnerving, right?

[ljb]

Pa,
Zig Zag Zel,
The heart and soul of the Republican Party. You can have him. He has never been a democrat he has always been a dixiecrat. Much like that other racist dude from Mississippi.

[PaceAdvantage]

So the only Democrats who count are from somewhere other than the South? Interesting.

[Tom]

It is no wonder the dems have lost the south...they have turned completely away from thier traditional values and now cater to the lunatic fringe ( I offer the OFF Topic thread and our resident libs as evdidence).
The multitude of Swift Boat Vets, now Zel.....the truth is out there.
And it is nibbling at a few arses. LOL

[ElKabong]

hcap,

Ben Barnes knows all about special concessions. Afterall, he should be sitting in prison today for his shady dealings during the Texas S&L scandal in the mid 1980s. Put him out there, front and center. He'll be like the clown at carnivals sitting on a plank above a pool of water, with people tossing baseballs at an easy target to dunk his worthless, stealing ass.

One thing GWB (and 99.9% of every Vietnam era vet) did NOT do was put our POWs in a more dangerous position than they were already. His 1971 speech was treasonous and self serving.

Run the mud DNC, go ahead. When the POW ads come out, he'll slide even farther down....

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by ljb
Pa,
Zig Zag Zel,
The heart and soul of the Republican Party. You can have him. He has never been a democrat he has always been a dixiecrat. Much like that other racist dude from Mississippi.


Dixiecrat? Is that what Democrat Robert Byrd is? Maybe Byrd can take you to his weekly KKK cross burnings, ljb.

Like Tom says, the Dems lost the south because of OLD thinking. The populace has shifted to the south, people have changed their views. This isn't 1965 anymore.

Two of the top 5 positions in GWB's administration are held by Rice and Powell....As a repub, "I approve of those appointments!".

Take the race card crap to sen. Byrd and run it up *his* flagpole. That stuff won't fly here.

[Secretariat]

I didn't hear Zell's speech, but kn owing Zell I can imagine.

Actually, I hope Zell continues to speak out. He is a perfect representative of the Republican party.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/chitribts/20040903/ts_chicagotrib/mccainmillersattackonkerrycouldhurtbush

[ElKabong]

nice try, Sec...you Dems voted him in for the past 20 years. Take the medicine. Take the hint and get the DNC from the far left.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I didn't hear Zell's speech

Something else I find very hard to believe.....

[hcap]

Elkabong" Ben Barnes knows all about special concessions. Afterall, he should be sitting in prison today for his shady dealings during the Texas S&L scandal in the mid 1980s"Did you say S&L?? The S&L scandal was probably the largest theft in the history of the world. And the bushies are, it seems somewhat connected.

So Mr Kabong, if you think Barnes will be discredited due to some typical political graft, I guess we may have to discredit the entire bush dynasty for some real GRAFT.

Maybe the repugs may NOT wanta open this can of worms?

check this out....
From http://www.rationalrevolution.net/bush_family_and_the_s.htm

The industry was deregulated under the Reagan/Bush administration and restrictions were eased on the industry so that abuse and misuse of funds became real easy.

There are several ways in which the Bush family plays into the Savings and Loan scandal, which involves not only many members of the Bush family but also many other politicians that are still in office and still part of the Bush Jr. administration today.

Between 1981 and 1989, when George Bush finally announced that there was a Savings and Loan Crisis to the world, the Reagan/Bush administration worked to cover up Savings and Loan problems by reducing the number and depth of examinations required of S&Ls as well as attacking political opponents who were sounding early alarms about the S&L industry. Industry insiders were aware of significant S&L problems as early 1986 that they felt would require a bailout. This information was kept from the media until after Bush had won the 1988 elections.

Jeb Bush, George Bush Sr., and his son Neil Bush have all been implicated in the Savings and Loan Scandal, which cost us American tax payers over $1.4 TRILLION dollars.

Jeb Bush defaulted on a $4.56 million loan from Broward Federal Savings in Sunrise, Florida. After federal regulators closed the S&L, the office building that Jeb used the $4.56 million to finance was reappraised by the regulators at $500,000, which Bush and his partners paid. The taxpayers had to pay back the remaining 4 million plus dollars.

Neil Bush was the most widely targeted member of the Bush family by the press in the S&L scandal. Neil became director of Silverado Savings and Loan at the age of 30 in 1985. Three years later the institution was belly up at a cost of $1.6 billion to tax payers to bail out.

The basic actions of Neil Bush in the S&L scandal are as follows:

Neil received a $100,000 "loan" from Ken Good, of Good International, with no obligation to pay any of the money back.

Good was a large shareholder in JNB Explorations, Neil Bush's oil-exploration company.

Neil failed to disclose this conflict-of-interest when loans were given to Good from Silverado, because the money was to be used in joint venture with his own JNB. This was in essence giving himself a loan from Silverado through a third party.

Neil then helped Silverado S&L approve Good International for a $900,000 line of credit.

Good defaulted on a total $32 million in loans from Silverado.

During this time Neil Bush did not disclose that $3 million of the $32 million that Good was defaulting on was actually for investment in JNB, his own company.

Good subsequently raised Bush's JNB salary from $75,000 to $125,000 and granted him a $22,500 bonus.

Neil Bush maintained that he did not see how this constituted a conflict of interest.

Neil approved $106 million in Silverado loans to another JNB investor, Bill Walters.

Neil also never formally disclosed his relationship with Walters and Walters also defaulted on his loans, all $106 million of them.

Neil Bush was charged with criminal wrongdoing in the case and ended up paying $50,000 to settle out of court. The chief of Silverado S&L was sentenced to 3.5 years in jail for pleading guilty to $8.7 million in theft.


By the way, just as a reminder, Mr Kabong, Kerry helped to unravel the Iran-Contra scandal, to the extent that Oliver North actually tried to sic the FBI on Kerry. Kerry also uncovered the BCCI scandal, and followed that up with the S&L scandal. In these three investigations, Kerry helped expose the cream of the GOP

By Sec on the "Another Kerry Lie" thread
I can tell you without equivocation, Kerry is the best man who has run for President since I've been voting. He exposed Iran Contra, exposed the bank scandals of the early 90's.

Hello Mr Kabong from a "Yet another liberal kerrybot "

[hcap]

A message from the patriotic Americans, and MOST of the world......

[vito1270]

Hey HCAP

I'm surprised that you had Miss Liberty using that language to George Bush. She looks like a a beautiful innocent young thing that wouldn/t hurt a fly. "UNLESS IT WAS OPEN"

Those medals you showed went into the garbage.
The empty beer cans were recycled.

So my message to you is "UPPA U ESS"

[Tom]

Originally posted by vito1270
So my message to you is "UPPA U ESS"

LOL! LOL!
That may be the only part of America tha supports Kerry!

[Tom]

Hcap,
Were you in NY? You act like some of the idiot protestors out there, spreading the word as Kerry supporters.
I can see someone with your anger being in the mob that kicked that cop. Real class people, you Kerry guys.

[Secretariat]

I would think you guys would hate Lady Liberty. After all the "French" gave her to us.

Good article Hcap. Poor old Neil. He had his share of troubles with China as well recently. But I am not going to denigrate Jeb or Neil for their S&L complicity. In all fairness, it is GW that is running. I can't imagine the Right Wing would ever attack family members such as Billy Carter or Clinton's brother or Hilary Clinton to impugn the actual candidate. After all I wouldn't want to be responsible for my brother's behavior, or my wife's for that matter.

People forget North was convicted during Iran Contra, and it was only overturned, not on the merits of the case, but because of a technicality on immunity. This is one of the right wing's definitions of "hero". I guess Cheney qualifies as "hero" too for managing to get all those deferments out of Nam. Didn't he say "I had better things to do during those times." And of course GW who managed to get Ben Barnes to save his butt from having to go as his student deferrment was running out. I am continually amazed that these are what the right wing chooses to represent as their "heros".

And PA...I know you have a hard time beleiving I didn't watch the convention, but alas, there were some old reruns of Lassie I was trying to catch up on. I don't watch this crap. I omly watched Kerry's speech during the Dem convention, because I think so highly of him. I didn't watch the others then, so why would I ever choose to watch a bunch of right wing wackos.

[boxcar]

ElKabong counsels Lance:[/i]

Turn in some food stamps for reading lessons....You'll find your answer.

He can't! He depleted his supply by using his FS card as a debit card to buy drugs. Can't you tell he's out of his gord?

Boxcar

[Tom]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I would think you guys would hate Lady Liberty. After all the "French" gave her to us.


You just cannot grasp the idea of a new world order, can you. You live in the past, Sec. French supporters were a major influnce in our winning our liberty from the Brittish. WE liked them, they were our friends. We went to their aid in WWII bvecasue they were our friends, and they needed our help. It is the new generation of french that suc, that deserted us in our time of need for thier own monetary gains. Take your history book out and tear out all the pages from 9-11-01 and back. We are re-writting history while Kerry is reliving it. Why, I do not know...he was a disgusting pice of history best forgotten.
Get on the bus, Sec, Zel Miller is our driver today! :D

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Tom
Get on the bus, Sec, Zel Miller is our driver today! :D

lol...uh no...with Zell as driver...I prefer to walk...be careful..that bus might just go over a cliff

[hcap]

Sec,

Barnes will probably up the level of the Swifties nonsense attacks. But since they brought it up and bush has not denounced this bull as he should have, it is Kerrys' turn.

Once dubyas' so called service is rehashed, Kerry will look like GI Joe vs. a "french pansy" surrendering while bending over.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm

" Among the questions Bush had to answer on his application forms was whether he wanted to go overseas. Bush checked the box that said: "do not volunteer."
Bush said in an interview that he did not recall checking the box. Two weeks later, his office provided a statement from a former, state-level Air Guard personnel officer, asserting that since Bush "was applying for a specific position with the 147th Fighter Group, it would have been inappropriate for him to have volunteered for an overseas assignment and he probably was so advised by the military personnel clerk assisting him in completing the form."

During a second interview, Bush himself raised the issue.

"Had my unit been called up, I'd have gone . . . to Vietnam," Bush said. "I was prepared to go."

But there was no chance Bush's unit would be ordered overseas. Bush says that toward the end of his training in 1970, he tried to volunteer for overseas duty, asking a commander to put his name on the list for a "Palace Alert" program, which dispatched qualified F-102 pilots in the Guard to the Europe and the Far East, occasionally to Vietnam, on three- to six-month assignments.

He was turned down on the spot. "I did [ask] – and I was told, 'You're not going,' " Bush said.

Only pilots with extensive flying time – at the outset, 1,000 hours were required – were sent overseas under the voluntary program. The Air Force, moreover, was retiring the aging F-102s and had ordered all overseas F-102 units closed down as of June 30, 1970.


Is this a flip-flop or a flop of character?
Defending Texas from the vietcong COULD have seemed noble to bush at the time???? Or something like that? Maybe he missunderestimated the distance from Hanoi to Dalllas?


I remind you gentlemen of this...

" Barnes testified for several hours Monday in a deposition in the case. Afterwards, his lawyer issued a written statement saying Barnes had been contacted by the now-deceased Sidney Adger, a Houston oilman and friend of the elder Bush.

''Mr. Barnes was contacted by Sid Adger and asked to recommend George W. Bush for a pilot position with the Air National Guard. Barnes called Gen. (James) Rose (Texas Air Guard commander) and did so,'' the statement said.


After all, dubya is the "War Preznit", and smoke and mirrors is the only thing that can camoflauge his service versus Kerrys' Unless ya thunk maybe parading around in a flightsuit on an aircraft carrier proclaiming "mission accomplished"

Funny no one ever collected on the 2 offers of rewards for anyone who could...." definitively prove that George W. Bush fulfilled his duty to country."

1-http://doonesbury.msn.com/strip/bush_guard.html
2-http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=166

Maybe 12 grand is still not enough? How about Mr Kabong et al on this board, could up the ante? Howsabout it guys?
Might be the only way other than the swifties garbage to re-inflate the "War Peznits' bio. Remember they started this dumb direction in the run for the president, and all's fair in a dirty campaign.

As far as this man is concerned, as vito1270 says

So my message to you is "UPPA U ESS"

[linrom1]

This guy Zel should put on a towel and head to Najaf. He'll fit right in with the rest of the towel heads.

[Tom]

Hcap lies again by posting:
"Barnes will probably up the level of the Swifties nonsense attacks. But since they brought it up and bush has not denounced this bull as he should have, it is Kerrys' turn."

He has said he respect's Kerry's brief career in Nam and suggested the ads stop. It is not his place to tell vets what they can and cannot say.

And here you are, still harping on Bush 30 years ago, which is not relevant. The only reason Kerry's past is relevant is becasue it is all he is running on.

[hcap]

Tom,

No I was only there in spirit. As far as thinking protestors are all guilty of violence, well I have to remind you that 99.999% of the folks who marched were peaceful, and acting as true enlightened citizens. But there may be issues still unresolved that still stick in New Yorkers gullet

Hey Tom, remember we actually agreed on this. You even, correct me if I am wrong, started calling the preznit a "pos" after this. After 911, brave New Yorkers having to deal with the worst tradgedy in the city and countrys recent history also had to endure this ...

"Immediately after the destruction of the Twin Towers, Bush's Environmental Protection Agency tested the air in and around Ground Zero. Anxious Lower Manhattan residents, worried about possible airborne toxic particles affecting them and especially their children, were assured by the EPA on September 18 that the tests indicated it was safe for them to return to and live normal lives in their homes and apartments and businesses. It wasn't until two years later that the EPA admitted that they had lied to New Yorkers: The Bush Administration knew from their own test results that the toxicity revealed was WAY over the safe levels. Typical Bush&Co. pattern: secrecy, lies, denial, coverup."

[hcap]

As soon as Kerrys' service becomes relevant, so does the "WAR PREZNITs" shoddy record. It was relevant in 2000, and so is how HE lied about it. Character is relevant on both sides.

I would rather discuss the failure to find WMDs, the continuing fiasco in Iraq, the failure of the bush foreign policy, or the huge net loss in jobs, but your swift swiftys changed the focus.

[hcap]

It is fair game, During the repug convention...

from http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/090404.html

"As Bush stayed in the background maintaining his “deniability,” his Republican allies continued to hammer home the “theme” of Kerry’s supposed cowardice, distributing band-aids with purple hearts at the Republican National Convention. Republican delegates wore these band-aids on their chins, cheeks and hands as a way to mock Kerry’s wounds. The band-aids were handed out by Morton Blackwell, who runs a Virginia training school for Republicans called the Leadership Institute."

Ok, why didn't our War Peznit denounce this implicit support of the sh*t ass swifties--during the televised, national official REPUBLICAN CONVENTION?

Tom You said "It is not his place to tell vets what they can and cannot say.". Isn't His place to control lies, and unsubstandited bull by his own party on national television?

Or maybe he ain't the "WAR PRESNIT", but the figurehead preznit?

[JustMissed]

Originally posted by hcap

Ok, why didn't our War Peznit denounce this implicit support of the sh*t ass swifties--during the televised, national official REPUBLICAN CONVENTION?



Why would Predident Bush denounce the support of a group that may very well have handed him re-election on a silver plater.

Let's face it. Lying John Kerry might have as well laid down and invited President Bush to kick him in the 'nards.

Lying Kerry chose to run on his Nam record and so opened himself up to any and all questions.

I can just hear in my mind slickster John Edwards' convention speech:"Send John, Send John, Send John".

I can also see lying John Kerry with that s**t eating grin on his face, saluting and saying:"John F. Kerry, reporting for duty".

I'm sure political science prefessors will be teaching their students for years to come that lying John Kerry's decision to run on his war record was the "most stupid" political strategy of modern times. But hey, if that's all you got, that's all you got.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

JM

[kenwoodallpromos]

WOW! YOU ARE LOUD!
AND HELPING BUSH BY CONTINUING TO DISTRACT THE PUBLIC FROM THE REAL ISSUES! THANKS FOR HELPING ELECT BUSH!LOL!

[hcap]

Ken
AND HELPING BUSH BY CONTINUING TO DISTRACT THE PUBLIC FROM THE REAL ISSUES! THANKS FOR HELPING ELECT BUSH!LOL!
Huh? On an off topic horse racing bbs?
I don't think too many undecided PUBLIC voters are following this thread. It seems the overwhelming majority here, have already made up their minds.

[Tom]

Hcap, you deaf and blind? Bush DID come out against the ads and praised KErry's wartime service. What the hell more do you want from him?
Let me point out that there are many of us out here still waiting for the apology from the Kerry fgor calling our troops murderers in 1971...while not offering one ioata of evidence to the stories he told congress for his opwn political gains.
Frankly, Bush should have let Chenney address Kerry. He has such a way with words that gutter-dwellers like Kerry understand.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Secretariat
And PA...I know you have a hard time beleiving I didn't watch the convention, but alas, there were some old reruns of Lassie I was trying to catch up on. I don't watch this crap. I omly watched Kerry's speech during the Dem convention, because I think so highly of him. I didn't watch the others then, so why would I ever choose to watch a bunch of right wing wackos.

Well then, I guess I thought a little bit more highly of you than I should have. I watched plenty of the Dem convention, just to make sure that I get to see the whole picture, not just the side that I am currently supporting.

Oh well.

[Tom]

PA = loose cannon!
Looking at the whole picture? Getting both sides of the story?
What are you, some outside agitator?????

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ;) :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[ElKabong]

hcap,

Go ahead and run out Barnes. It's all you have from here on out, and he ain't much. A failed politician who ought to be in prison for the S&L scandals he was knee deep in.

The country doesn't care if GWB served in Vietnam or not. We want to know if he can lead. He can, and is. I know that bites you in the ass, otherwise you wouldn't try every Junior Varsity trick in the book (sneak into convention & TRY to disrupt proceedings, moveon.com and them trying to compare GWB to hitler, etc).

Double digit lead, baby! And when the POW ads come out later, it'll damn Kerry to hell.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I didn't hear Zell's speech, but kn owing Zell I can imagine.

Actually, I hope Zell continues to speak out. He is a perfect representative of the Republican party.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/chitribts/20040903/ts_chicagotrib/mccainmillersattackonkerrycouldhurtbush

You guys are obviously out of touch with mainstream America:

KIRTLAND, United States (AFP) - US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) found strong support among voters in key states for Democratic Senator Zell Miller, who has broken with his party and raised eyebrows with attacks on Democratic White House hopeful John Kerry (news - web sites).

"Finally, a Democrat is speaking the truth," Jerry Jacobson, a Vietnam war veteran who served five years in the US Air Force, told AFP after Bush energized thousands in a sun-baked football stadium here.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040905/pl_afp/us_vote_bush_miller

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
You guys are obviously out of touch with mainstream America:



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040905/pl_afp/us_vote_bush_miller


lol...I love it...You quote a vet who was at a Bush rally as mainstream America. I don't know if you're aware of it or not, but you have to meet certain criteria to even be at a Bush rally. Ant dissenters must go to the Free Speech Zones. Only those who are supporters are allowed to attend. Please don't call this mainstream America...If Zell Miller is mainstream America then we got many more problesm than I coudl have ever imagined.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Secretariat
...we got many more problesm than I coudl have ever imagined.

You can say that again!

[ElKabong]

Originally posted by Secretariat
I know you have a hard time beleiving I didn't watch the convention, but alas, there were some old reruns of Lassie I was trying to catch up on. .

Very smart of you, Sec....Latest polls show that Kerry right now is passing for GW's bitch, so you weren't too far off the Convention's theme by watching Lassie.

[JustRalph]

Hey Sec

The problem with you commenting about mainstream America is a little odd coming from someone who refuses to tell us where they are located..............we might understand your point a little better if we knew what region of the country you are in. I am still skeptical whether or not you are in the U.S.

[hcap]

BUSH=FLIP
MILLER=FLOP

Leave it to The Daily Show to point this out.

" I've told the Iraqi people this, and I mean it; we will transfer sovereignty to the Iraqi people on June the 30th. Of course, I know I'm -- American citizens hear, well, maybe the Iraqis don't want us to occupy them. Who wants to be occupied? Nobody wants to be occupied. People do want to be liberated."
- President Bush, May 7, 2004

"Finally, the attitude of the Iraqis toward the American people -- it's an interesting question. They're really pleased we got rid of Saddam Hussein. And you can understand why. This is a guy who was a torturer, a killer, a maimer; there's mass graves. I mean, he was a horrible individual that really shocked the country in many ways, shocked it into a kind of -- a fear of making decisions toward liberty. That's what we've seen recently. Some citizens are fearful of stepping up. And they were happy -- they're not happy they're occupied. I wouldn't be happy if I were occupied either."
- President Bush, April 13, 2004

"Motivated more by partisan politics than by national security, today's Democratic leaders see America as an occupier, not a liberator. And nothing makes this Marine madder than someone calling American troops occupiers rather than liberators."
- Zell Miller, September 1, 2004


Eh? Zelly, then your glorious leader should really piss you off!

[ElKabong]

If they didn't like our kicking their ass and forcing their hand, they should have removed Saddam themselves. GWB gave them months to clean house. Made it easier all the way around if they got off their asses and took him out, but that didn't happen.

Rooting out Saddam HAD to happen. Roll out all the tired slogans and whines you like, it HAD to happen.

I'm just glad we have a prez that has the stones to step up and take care of business. Kerry would be a UN puppett waiting for Kofi's or Cherac's que....Screw that. I don't want them setting US policy now or ever.

[Tom]

Originally posted by JustRalph
Hey Sec

The problem with you commenting about mainstream America is a little odd coming from someone who refuses to tell us where they are located..............we might understand your point a little better if we knew what region of the country you are in. I am still skeptical whether or not you are in the U.S.




Falluja!

[hcap]

Mr Kabong says.. The country doesn't care if GWB served in Vietnam or not. We want to know if he can lead. He can, and is. I know that bites you in the ass, otherwise you wouldn't try every Junior Varsity trick in the book (sneak into convention & TRY to disrupt proceedings, moveon.com and them trying to compare GWB to hitler, etc).Well I wasn't even in the city during the convention. I did Not Sneak into the convention. Besides, why would I wanna be seen with guys like this. Were you at the convention?

[ElKabong]

Nope, but I saw them drag out 2 screaming misfits from MSG while GWB was giving his speech. They were dems, but I guess you'll try to say they were repubs eh?

Just like the shot fired at the repub hq in WVA last Thursday where some lib here on the forum tried to play Judd for the Defense and say 'how do you know it was a dem that fired the shot.?' ROTFLMAO

"IS".

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
Well then, I guess I thought a little bit more highly of you than I should have. I watched plenty of the Dem convention, just to make sure that I get to see the whole picture, not just the side that I am currently supporting.

Oh well.

Well, gee thanks PA, I didn't know ya cared. Thought highly of me, huh? Darn, if I knew watching the Repub Convention or the Dem one for that matter would have kept me in your good graces then I may have tuned in.

If anyone, Dem or Repub, honestly thinks they're getting to see the whole picture from watching conventions, then you most likely still beleive we're gonna find those stockpiles of WMD's in Iraq.

And JR, you are obsessed with knowing where I am from. I suppose like M you want to report me to John Ashcroft. Roll over James Madison.

btw.. JR, I am married, and not available. Try the Log Cabin Repubs.

[Tom]

Sec,
It's not where you are from that bugs us, it is that you are HERE!
:D :D :D

[ponyplayer]

Bingo! :D :D :D

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by Tom
Sec,
It's not where you are from that bugs us, it is that you are HERE!
:D :D :D

Well, I realize that Tom, but for JR...he wants to know where I'm from. Not sure if he's looking for a date or what...I told him I'm already taken.

[Secretariat]

Below is a speech Zell Miller gave (from Zell's own Senate website) introducing John kerry only a couple of years ago.

Was this similar to the speech he gave about Kerry at the RNC? I am curious.

http://miller.senate.gov/speeches/030101jjdinner.htm

[PaceAdvantage]

How many times are you guys going to post this?

Like most good Dems, I guess Zell flip flopped on his opinion of John Kerry. I'm sure Kerry understands how this sort of thing happens.

[Steve 'StatMan']

Yup! Pre 9-11-2001. Ancient History. The Old World. Pre-Presidential Candiate Kerry. Now he knows what Kerry is all about.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
How many times are you guys going to post this?

Like most good Dems, I guess Zell flip flopped on his opinion of John Kerry. I'm sure Kerry understands how this sort of thing happens.

This article from Zell's site doesn't appear to be posted in this thread.

Bush opened this whole issue of flip flopping, so I think you're going to start seeing a lot about the flip flops of Zell, as well as the flip flops of this administration...

[Derek2U]

Guys STOP being armchair generals. 1,000 US DEAD from this
Iraq War & what to show for it. Forget the 250 BILLION blown
so far --- and many, many more to come --- but I just don't see
how WE in the USA are even remotely SAFER now. So tell me,
HOW.

[ljb]

From Sec,
" Well, I realize that Tom, but for JR...he wants to know where I'm from. Not sure if he's looking for a date or what...I told him I'm already taken. "
LOL
Jr had asked me to let him know next time I did some campaign work in the Columbus area. I also told him I was busy. Don't want to make you feel bad Sec, but I think JR asked me first. ;)

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by ljb
From Sec,
" Well, I realize that Tom, but for JR...he wants to know where I'm from. Not sure if he's looking for a date or what...I told him I'm already taken. "
LOL
Jr had asked me to let him know next time I did some campaign work in the Columbus area. I also told him I was busy. Don't want to make you feel bad Sec, but I think JR asked me first. ;)

You boys can fight over me all you want.....

[betchatoo]

Originally posted by JustRalph
You boys can fight over me all you want.....

Well Ralph, with that cute picture you have up, who can resist you?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Derek2U
Guys STOP being armchair generals. 1,000 US DEAD from this
Iraq War & what to show for it. Forget the 250 BILLION blown
so far --- and many, many more to come --- but I just don't see
how WE in the USA are even remotely SAFER now. So tell me,
HOW.

So, we were safer with Saddam there? Say he was there right now, and we hadn't invaded Iraq. Say he hands Al-Queda a couple million to fund the next big terror attack against the US.

You're telling me we're NOT REMOTELY safer?

Please....

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
So, we were safer with Saddam there? Say he was there right now, and we hadn't invaded Iraq. Say he hands Al-Queda a couple million to fund the next big terror attack against the US.

You're telling me we're NOT REMOTELY safer?

Please....

Can you link any previous direct funding from Hussein to Al Queda?

Can you link any previous direct funding from the Saudis to Al Queda?

[PaceAdvantage]

The whole point is to be PROACTIVE....not REACTIVE like Mr. Kerry plans to run the defense of this country POST 9/11.

Get it?

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
The whole point is to be PROACTIVE....not REACTIVE like Mr. Kerry plans to run the defense of this country POST 9/11.

Get it?

One can be PROACTIVE without committing 100,000 + American soliders based on intelligence from Chalabi with no direct linakge to Al Queda. PROACTIVE doesn't mean defying the rest of the world, and bombing the hell out a country to capture a guy who had no connection to 911.

Pre-emption is a doctrine that Bush began, and now we see the results when intelligence is flawed. Working with our allies pressuring Iraq would have been PROACTIVE and may have avoided the loss of a lot less lives.

I was always taught war was a last resort, not a first one. This Prez has turned that on its ear. Had Bush PROACTIVELY sought out Al Queda in Pakistan, Iran, Chechnya, and Syria he would have had more leverage with his argument, but attacking Iraq brought us no closer to dealing with Al Queda. I don't consider that PROACTIVE, but REGRESSIVE to our purpose after 911 which was to bring those killers to justice. Now we're in an apparent quagmire over there with the Secy. of Defense stating that insurgents now control parts of the country we once held. How'd that happen, and where has the news been on that?

What terrorism have we prevented by invading Iraq? According to Powell worldwide terrorism has increased, and the invasion of Iraq has not lead to the caputure of Bin Laden, Omar and his associates.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally posted by Secretariat
What terrorism have we prevented by invading Iraq?

What a silly question. It's a question without an answer. What terrorism have we prevented? Ummm...all the terrorism that never got a chance to happen because of the actions of Bush? If they never got a chance to see the light of day because of our actions in Iraq, you'll never know about them, but you'll be DAMN THANKFUL they never got a chance to occur.

If you must have a clear cut answer (because I like giving answers to your questions, even though you rarely answer any direct questions put to yourself):

Every single day that goes by without an American being killed inside of the United States of America because of a terror attack can be considered potential terrorism prevented. And so far, Bush has a perfect record.

You don't mess with success.

[Secretariat]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
What a silly question. It's a question without an answer. What terrorism have we prevented? Ummm...all the terrorism that never got a chance to happen because of the actions of Bush? If they never got a chance to see the light of day because of our actions in Iraq, you'll never know about them, but you'll be DAMN THANKFUL they never got a chance to occur.

If you must have a clear cut answer (because I like giving answers to your questions, even though you rarely answer any direct questions put to yourself):

Every single day that goes by without an American being killed inside of the United States of America because of a terror attack can be considered potential terrorism prevented. And so far, Bush has a perfect record.

You don't mess with success.

But terrorism is happening wordlwide at a larger rate than before Bush according to Powell. And our soldiers (Americans) are constantly being victimized by insurgents committing terrorist acts Car bombings and suicide bombings within Iraq) and our Homeland Security has stated that a terorrist act is imminent in the US in the very near future...and our ports have been proven to be vulnerable to terrorist act, and our borders are completly open accoridng to a Texas Congressmen from Harlingen who said on C-Span that 20,000 illegals came across the border and because there was not enough room for detention, they were released and given a ticket to show up for immigration hearings rather than immedaite deportation. 90% never showed up for the hearings.

How has any of those policies made us safer? To assume because we have not had another 911 that we and the world are safer from terrorism is not borne out simply because we have not had a US attack in three years. Al Queda is known for long term planning and plans for big events, such as elections, and often look for soft targets as the Chechens event proved.

Could we stop such an event here? I'm not so sure as you. I hope so, but I am not so sure. I do agee we have a larger beaucracy now, but not sure it has been fully tested yet. Hope you're right.