MGM Buys Yonkers

[Denny]

MGM spent $850 million on Yonkers Raceway yesterday. With an extra $50 million if they become a full-scale casino in a few years. Believe end of 2022.

Will this have a major impact on horseracing, Harness and Thoroughbred in the New York metropolitan area including Meadowlands and Belmont/Aqueduct?

I'm thinking Yes, and will be very interesting to follow.

[Denny]

Thought this news would get more attention.

Pandy,
What was it you said in another thread about a possible 1-Mile dirt track in NY for Harness?
Something about a Yonkers at Belmont is what I had read.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Thought this news would get more attention.

Pandy,
What was it you said in another thread about a possible 1-Mile dirt track in NY for Harness?
Something about a Yonkers at Belmont is what I had read.

Here's the speculation...

http://www.drf.com/news/giwner-yonkers-raceway-meet-belmont-park

Basic scenario - Big A closes, BEL is winterized, harness horsemen agree to t'breds running at night at BEL and YR meet takes place at night at BEL (on a new track). Lots of hurdles or potential combo of ideas.

[Tom]

Lots of hurdles

Jumpers too, huh?

[Denny]

Saratoga Mike,

Thanks for putting the link and contributing. Just read it.

Sounds doable, though not easy, and I'd be thrilled if it happens. I'd even cast my vote for Cuomo if he supports it and makes it happen!

I see it as a potential Win Win for both harness and thoroughbred - and a big plus for the NY horse racing industry and the state.

[Denny]

Jumpers too, huh?


Funny.

But, where have you been?
They've done steeplechase at Belmont since way back.

[Denny]

One question about the Yonkers at Belmont idea comes to mind.

If MGM does away with the Harness track at Empire City Casino, they'd also eliminate all the horse stables.

Where would the horses be kept at Belmont?
There's only so much space.
The hockey arena is already going to gobble up a lot of real estate.

[classhandicapper]

I'm sure there will be a lot of resistance, but it makes sense to consolidate racing in NY at one location with Saratoga as the vacation getaway and to allow the casinos to do their own thing elsewhere on a larger scale.

Of course the fact that I live 10 minutes from Belmont makes this idea more appealing to me. ;)

[theiman]

One question about the Yonkers at Belmont idea comes to mind.

If MGM does away with the Harness track at Empire City Casino, they'd also eliminate all the horse stables.

Where would the horses be kept at Belmont?
There's only so much space.
The hockey arena is already going to gobble up a lot of real estate.

I have been out of the harness game for years. However, I thought Yonkers went the route of Freehold and The Meadowlands by eliminating on track stables. I think Yonkers is a ship in race day/night track. All horses race off training centers in NJ or upstate NY.

A google map shows some of the old stables but when I zoomed in on the picture they look empty. The grooms quarters near the barns look in pretty sore shape.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.9171056,-73.8625407,428m/data=!3m1!1e3

[Denny]

IMAN,
You know what, you could be right.
(I do know Meadowlands is ship in only.)

I haven't been there in 20 years and don't play them hardly ever.
Don't like the half-mile racing the way they do it these days.

That's why it would be great to have a mile track other than Meadowlands, who is down to two days a week.

Could somebody who knows comment on whether they still stable at Yonkers?
Thanks

[pandy]

Yonkers could conceivably have the number one track in North America is they get a one mile track. It's a shame to have such high purses and race over a speed biased half mile track where the outside posts rarely win. The racing would be a lot better around two turns, and the handle would be much higher.

Yonkers still has stables.

[Thomas Roulston]

But why does essentially every single harness race have to be at 1 mile? And if you mixed in some 1 1/16-mile or even 1 1/8-mile races, harness races at half-mile tracks wouldn't be so speed-favoring, no?

[Denny]

But why does essentially every single harness race have to be at 1 mile? And if you mixed in some 1 1/16-mile or even 1 1/8-mile races, harness races at half-mile tracks wouldn't be so speed-favoring, no?

Yonkers does 1-1/4-mile races on Sunday matinees with 10-horses (2 trailers).
They're for trotters and are simulcast to France.
Has boosted handle quite a bit.
Not sure how it's affected the bias toward speed and inside posts.
Pandy would most probably be able to answer that for us.
______

My thought on this overall topic is also whether MGM will try to eliminate horses entirely as soon as they can.
Or is thereanything in the condition of the sale that they keep racing alive on-site?

[ldiatone]

Did the Rooney(steelers) family sell to MGM? just asking. of was it sold b4

[pandy]

But why does essentially every single harness race have to be at 1 mile? And if you mixed in some 1 1/16-mile or even 1 1/8-mile races, harness races at half-mile tracks wouldn't be so speed-favoring, no?

Yes, you're right, but whenever a harness track tries longer distances they get complaints because so many harness fans are used to the one mile. Part of the complaints is that they can't figure out the last quarter. If the past performances are adjusted accordingly for the changes, that would help.

But, theoretically, you're right, longer distances are not as speed favoring, especially if you go a mile and an eighth or a mile and a quarter. Plus, the outside posts will win far more often than they do now.

But basically the tracks are run by people that are not really trying hard enough to put out a good product.

[pandy]

Did the Rooney(steelers) family sell to MGM? just asking. of was it sold b4

Yes, Tim Rooney was still in charge and they owned it and sold it.

[pandy]

Yonkers does 1-1/4-mile races on Sunday matinees with 10-horses (2 trailers).
They're for trotters and are simulcast to France.
Has boosted handle quite a bit.
Not sure how it's affected the bias toward speed and inside posts.
Pandy would most probably be able to answer that for us.
______

My thought on this overall topic is also whether MGM will try to eliminate horses entirely as soon as they can.
Or is thereanything in the condition of the sale that they keep racing alive on-site?


I don't have the stats on the post positions for the mile and a quarter trot races, but they are definitely much less speed biased. And, I'm pretty sure that posts 6, 7, and 8 do a little better. At the mile and a quarter distance, the driver who has sharp horse inside, for instance, post 1, can't just gun hard to the lead because he won't have anything left, since the race is longer. So consequently, it makes it easier for an outside post leaver to leave and get the top.

Another big difference in the mile and a quarter trot races, in many of them, they go with 10 horse fields instead of 8, with two in the second tier. So the outside flow starts immediately. Overall, it's a much more competitive race from start to finish, when compared to the one mile races.

[coachv30]

Yes, you're right, but whenever a harness track tries longer distances they get complaints because so many harness fans are used to the one mile. Part of the complaints is that they can't figure out the last quarter. If the past performances are adjusted accordingly for the changes, that would help.

But, theoretically, you're right, longer distances are not as speed favoring, especially if you go a mile and an eighth or a mile and a quarter. Plus, the outside posts will win far more often than they do now.

But basically the tracks are run by people that are not really trying hard enough to put out a good product.

If a particular brand of PP's were to do the math for you on those final 1/4's, that may indeed bring revenue to that brand. Although it would be difficult to identify where a horse stood time-wise for the final 1/4 in a 1 1/16 race.

[ldiatone]

Yes, Tim Rooney was still in charge and they owned it and sold it.

thanks Pandy

[Denny]

If a particular brand of PP's were to do the math for you on those final 1/4's, that may indeed bring revenue to that brand. Although it would be difficult to identify where a horse stood time-wise for the final 1/4 in a 1 1/16 race.

Track Master PP's have a speed figure for the different distances.

Harness Eye (DRF owned now) does not have speed figures for 1-1/4, making it tough to compare horses running at different distances.
Needs a major upgrade IMO.
They've got other issues too (too few pp lines is one), but, don't know if they intend to do anything about it.

[Denny]

"But basically the tracks are run by people that are not really trying hard enough to put out a good product." - Pandy

That pretty much sums it up.:ThmbUp:

[coachv30]

Track Master PP's have a speed figure for the different distances.

Harness Eye (DRF owned now) does not have speed figures for 1-1/4, making it tough to compare horses running at different distances.
Needs a major upgrade IMO.
They've got other issues too (too few pp lines is one), but, don't know if they intend to do anything about it.

A lot of people like to look at the raw data (such as a fractional time) so they can do whatever they do with it like adjust it based on the trip, or focus just on a particular part of a race....speed figures in a way tell the whole story in one number that everyone sees in front of them.