Today Was The Biggest Day In Horse Racing!

[DerbyJackpot]

Now I know bunch of the members on here are old timers. Whom I respect 100%... But I want to give you a 20 age group opinion on the news today.


They ruled today Banning Sports Betting was unconstitutional. This now gives rights to horse tracks to introduce sports betting at the tracks. To conclude this gives Horse Tracks many routes to improve. I'll explain why....

1.) Youth Bettors like myself see a better percentage ROI on sports betting. You can play a lock on a basketball or football game compared to playing a 5 horse field with likely chances the 4/5 shot wins... So introducing Sports Betting is going to bring youth bettors to the horse track. 100% certain

2.) So how do we get them to play horse races? Its simple! We introduce large horse fields(racing secretaries can do this if they get off there ass), screw the 5 horse fields its a losing money fight.
- Introduce More Jackpot Wagers With A Max of $50 wagered on the bet. This gets rid of the whales. Young bettors will wager on bets they see value in(I and My Drinking Buddies Do This; All 20 to 27yo) Take for example Fantasy Sports, Spend $10 to win $500,000....

3.) Get rid of the Live Odds and Probables 10 to 20 minutes before Post. This will get rid of your $2 to $20 bettors betting on the favorite. This will diversify the odds

4.) Make it where you can buy a voucher at the track. Download a app... Enter in a passcode, and upload that money onto an app and wager on your phone. Youth hate waiting in lines.

5.) Keep beer affordable, free programs, free admission


This is the biggest opportunity for the horse racing industry to revive itself to the gamblers... For a long time we have taken care of the horsemen with a welfare logic. These horsemen have no done a damn thing for horse racing. Screw them is my logic here. Take care of your customers

Thanks for reading guys.

[paddy79]

Potentially but I think the game is just too bent in America to take off. I see so many shady things happen in a lot of races. The stewards seem to be in on some of it too. There just isn't enough regulation. I think youth bettors would rather bet on basketball, hockey, baseball, football etc.

[AlsoEligible]

4.) Make it where you can buy a voucher at the track. Download a app... Enter in a passcode, and upload that money onto an app and wager on your phone. Youth hate waiting in lines.

Just FYI, a lot of tracks already have this under a variety of names - MBet, Digital Link, or FastBet Mobile depending on the tote system being used.

You go to a teller and buy a "day account", and you're given a slip of paper with an account number and PIN. Use that to log into the app (or in most cases, a mobile site with no download needed) and bet throughout the day. When finished, you either take that slip of paper to a teller to cash it out, or put it into a self-serve where it's automatically turned into a voucher.

Tracks generally don't market it much because it does peanuts in handle (even on big days), but it is available. Current patrons simply don't want to use it for whatever reason, but maybe that will change with an influx of younger bettors.

[DerbyJackpot]

I 100% agree with everything you said... But my theory is this... In present tense when i get off work from coal mines on a Friday Night I'll ride up to Ellis Park and bet on simulcasting and have a few beers. Their is two people in my age group that go with me every Friday night...

Now let's say Sports Betting was allowed... Instead of bringing two people I could bring 10 people. In between a game they see a Race with a $100,000 guaranteed Jackpot. These same sports bettors are going to play that race because they see value..... Also these same people are not going to play an exotic in this case an exacta and spend $4 to get $7 on that exacta. Its a losing proposition. Young bettors are smarter then you think they are.


Need to work on decreasing takeouts.... 25% on average on exotics is highway robbery...


Like we have the doors wide open to improve this sport, but instead of talking we need to do something.

[Racetrack Playa]

while we are at it can we Eighty-Six juvenile racing and make the DERBY for 4yo's:ThmbUp:

[DerbyJackpot]

Just FYI, a lot of tracks already have this under a variety of names - MBet, Digital Link, or FastBet Mobile depending on the tote system being used.

You go to a teller and buy a "day account", and you're given a slip of paper with an account number and PIN. Use that to log into the app (or in most cases, a mobile site with no download needed) and bet throughout the day. When finished, you either take that slip of paper to a teller to cash it out, or put it into a self-serve where it's automatically turned into a voucher.

Tracks generally don't market it much because it does peanuts in handle (even on big days), but it is available. Current patrons simply don't want to use it for whatever reason, but maybe that will change with an influx of younger bettors.

Its unpopular because they don't advertise it. And I'm telling you Sports Betting is going to be huge for Horse Racing. Trust me. Its going to inject a new audience that is badly needed into the sport.

[CincyHorseplayer]

"Youth Bettors like myself see a better percentage ROI on sports betting."

That's pretty funny. This game isn't that hard. You have to pick your spots. If sports betting is perceived as valuable that is pathetic!

[Valuist]

Now I know bunch of the members on here are old timers. Whom I respect 100%... But I want to give you a 20 age group opinion on the news today.


They ruled today Banning Sports Betting was unconstitutional. This now gives rights to horse tracks to introduce sports betting at the tracks. To conclude this gives Horse Tracks many routes to improve. I'll explain why....

1.) Youth Bettors like myself see a better percentage ROI on sports betting. You can play a lock on a basketball or football game compared to playing a 5 horse field with likely chances the 4/5 shot wins... So introducing Sports Betting is going to bring youth bettors to the horse track. 100% certain

2.) So how do we get them to play horse races? Its simple! We introduce large horse fields(racing secretaries can do this if they get off there ass), screw the 5 horse fields its a losing money fight.
- Introduce More Jackpot Wagers With A Max of $50 wagered on the bet. This gets rid of the whales. Young bettors will wager on bets they see value in(I and My Drinking Buddies Do This; All 20 to 27yo) Take for example Fantasy Sports, Spend $10 to win $500,000....

3.) Get rid of the Live Odds and Probables 10 to 20 minutes before Post. This will get rid of your $2 to $20 bettors betting on the favorite. This will diversify the odds

4.) Make it where you can buy a voucher at the track. Download a app... Enter in a passcode, and upload that money onto an app and wager on your phone. Youth hate waiting in lines.

5.) Keep beer affordable, free programs, free admission


This is the biggest opportunity for the horse racing industry to revive itself to the gamblers... For a long time we have taken care of the horsemen with a welfare logic. These horsemen have no done a damn thing for horse racing. Screw them is my logic here. Take care of your customers

Thanks for reading guys.

There aren't too many "locks" in sports betting. That is what the spread is about; it is the factor that evens things out. The guys making the lines aren't stupid. They know if they aren't sharp, the wise guys will bury them.

[DerbyJackpot]

How you figure?

You have a 50/50 shot regardless on a sports bet, and with the edge of stats etc its a much better investment then wagering on a horse race + takeout


I mean a parlay bet is much better wager then a Pick 3, 4, or 5 again + takeout

[DerbyJackpot]

"Youth Bettors like myself see a better percentage ROI on sports betting."

That's pretty funny. This game isn't that hard. You have to pick your spots. If sports betting is perceived as valuable that is pathetic!

All day long on ROI with sports betting over horse racing...


"This Game Isn't That Hard"? Come on now... In regards to the majority of young horse players you are walking out the door a loser

[Denny]

I think the ruling is fantastic.
Can't wait till I'm able to make a sports bet at my OTB in New York.
I think it's going to pump new blood into the sport of horseracing by bringing in a whole new audience - young and old.

edit - I love the prospect of people crowding into the place with a lot more excitement in the air - more than just horses racing around in a circle with so much dead-time between races.

Denny - a senior player of horses for more than 40 years

[DerbyJackpot]

You are thinking outside the box! Thank you...

If there was a sports book in your city or close and your favorite team was about to play. Where would you go?

Would you head to the sports book, includes beer and food, and probably with exciting action around you, stay home, or go to a restaurant or bar(no book)?


I'd be heading to the sports book and lay money and kick back in an awesome atmosphere with others rooting on the game.

First I'd lay my bet. Then head to bar and buy two beers... Shoot over and buy a racing program... Find a seat... Watch the game...During commericals Id look at the program for the upcoming race and run to the teller and place a bet...Watch the horse race...When done...Go back to game...Then wager on a horse race or two during halftime.

This is how young bettors would interact at the horse track with a sports book.

There is nothing but positives with this because you are getting them interested in horse racing.

I think its amazing, and find it perfect to get my age group back into it.

Plus instead of drawing in huge crowds for Derby, Preakness, and Belmont. You'd also draw huge crowds during NFL Playoffs, Super Bowl, NBA Playoffs and Championship, World Series, When The College of Choice in Basketball and Football are playing, NCAA Championships, Daytona 500....

Don't forget to adjust the sports book atmosphere to young bettors, because this would be the majority...

I'd love to be running a track with a sports book coming in because you have so many options of driving in revenue with a little bit of marketing and advertising. Something horse racing sucks at.

[onefast99]

I think the ruling is fantastic.
Can't wait till I'm able to make a sports bet at my OTB in New York.
I think it's going to pump new blood into the sport of horseracing by bringing in a whole new audience - young and old.

edit - I love the prospect of people crowding into the place with a lot more excitement in the air - more than just horses racing around in a circle with so much dead-time between races.

Denny - a senior player of horses for more than 40 years

Bingo! The theory behind sports wagering is many people will come to one area and be rooting for the team they bet on or rooting against the team they bet against and this will cause more people to want to partake. Monmouth Park is looking to create a buffalo wild wings type atmosphere with the ability to wager and offer better food! MP will be rocking once they begin accepting sports wagering.

[DerbyJackpot]

Bingo! The theory behind sports wagering is many people will come to one area and be rooting for the team they bet on or rooting against the team they bet against and this will cause more people to want to partake. Monmouth Park is looking to create a buffalo wild wings type atmosphere with the ability to wager and offer better food! MP will be rocking once they begin accepting sports wagering.

Agreed! I see no negatives with bringing more people to the track... Regardless you are creating a much more exciting atmosphere which wants people to come back...

How many times do you walk into a track to wager on simulcasting? You see 80% white old men, a few young degenerate thugs asking for money cause they have a big winner today, or the couples that bring their kids with them and let them run wild lol.... That atmosphere makes people stay home...


Having a exciting crowd leaves a lasting memory.

[thaskalos]

You guys DO realize that sports betting will be allowed at betting outlets OUTSIDE of the track...RIGHT? I mean...a "normal" guy who just wants to place a bet on his favorite team and gulp down a couple of beers won't have to drive out to a track or an OTB in order to get this done.

[DerbyJackpot]

You guys DO realize that sports betting will be allowed at betting outlets OUTSIDE of the track...RIGHT? I mean...a "normal" guy who just wants to place a bet on his favorite team and gulp down a couple of beers won't have to drive out to a track or an OTB in order to get this done.

Outside of a few liberal states I see majority states putting in regulations to prevent this... I see this being hugely beneficial to states like Kentucky, Indiana, Arkansas, Louisiana, Florida, Texas, Cali(maybe), etc.

The big winner in this is Kentucky. Probably take a year to get the ball rolling, but very excited for things to come in Kentucky Racing.

[thaskalos]

Outside of a few liberal states I see majority states putting in regulations to prevent this... I see this being hugely beneficial to states like Kentucky, Indiana, Arkansas, Louisiana, Florida, Texas, Cali(maybe), etc.

The big winner in this is Kentucky. Probably take a year to get the ball rolling, but very excited for things to come in Kentucky Racing.

If you think that sports betting is doing this just to "partner-up" with the racetracks...then you've lost your mind.

[onefast99]

You guys DO realize that sports betting will be allowed at betting outlets OUTSIDE of the track...RIGHT? I mean...a "normal" guy who just wants to place a bet on his favorite team and gulp down a couple of beers won't have to drive out to a track or an OTB in order to get this done.

Just in case you missed it sports wagering Will only be at the race tracks and casinos in the state of New Jersey please read the post back as far as 2011 as far as other states go I have no idea but the object here was to bring more people in to the race tracks and casinos thats how Governor Christie envisioned it as well as all of those that fought for this. Eventually betfair will get the online wagering platform in NJ but no one knows how long that will take to put into place.

[thaskalos]

Just in case you missed it sports wagering Will only be at the race tracks and casinos in the state of New Jersey please read the post back as far as 2011 as far as other states go I have no idea but the object here was to bring more people in to the race tracks and casinos thats how Governor Christie envisioned it as well as all of those that fought for this. Eventually betfair will get the online wagering platform in NJ but no one knows how long that will take to put into place.

I was responding to the original poster...who stated that he thinks the majority of the states will try to block the expansion of sports betting outside of the tracks. He wasn't talking just about New Jersey...he was talking about the other states as well.

[DerbyJackpot]

If you think that sports betting is doing this just to "partner-up" with the racetracks...then you've lost your mind.

Can you explain more? I'm not fully grasping what you said sir

[Tom]

So it all boils down to just another source for racing to leech off from? :rolleyes:

I think this time, you will see tracks left out of the model - who needs tracks to be the anchors to this.

What does racing bring to the table? Besides a hand out for hand outs?

It would make more sense to offer sports betting in cigar stores and newsstands than tracks.

[thaskalos]

Can you explain more? I'm not fully grasping what you said sir

Sports betting is too big of an enterprise to be confined to just the existing racetracks and the casinos. It's tailor-made for the internet...and that's where it will flourish, in no time flat. The people will be placing their sports bets from the comfort of their own homes, just as the horseplayers are currently doing...and the tracks and the OTBs will remain as deserted as they currently are.

As they say..."There is no place like home".

[DerbyJackpot]

I was responding to the original poster...who stated that he thinks the majority of the states will try to block the expansion of sports betting outside of the tracks. He wasn't talking just about New Jersey...he was talking about the other states as well.

Like I said states like Kentucky are the big winners, as Kentucky will input regulations to only allow sports wagering at tracks... You'd see this more supported in republican states.


You really think Kentucky is going to allow sports betting outside of tracks? You'd have to be out of your mind to think they'd do that.

[Tom]

It would be extremely stupid not to have betting from home.
I would guess at least half the bets would originate from homes.
NO ONE is going to go to a track every day to make a sports bet.

[thaskalos]

Like I said states like Kentucky are the big winners, as Kentucky will input regulations to only allow sports wagering at tracks... You'd see this more supported in republican states.


You really think Kentucky is going to allow sports betting outside of tracks? You'd have to be out of your mind to think they'd do that.

Horse racing no longer has the political "clout" that it once had. The states now look only at their "bottom line"...and horse racing doesn't currently "pull its weight" in that regard. Do you honestly see the NFL agreeing to offering its "product" only within the confines of our currently deserted RACETRACKS? The professional team franchises have been against sports betting for DECADES, and now that they've changed their minds...you think they'll let the RACETRACKS call the shots?

[TiffaniO]

Horse racing no longer has the political "clout" that it once had. The states now look only at their "bottom line"...and horse racing doesn't currently "pull its weight" in that regard. Do you honestly see the NFL agreeing to offering its "product" only within the confines of our currently deserted RACETRACKS? The professional team franchises have been against sports betting for DECADES, and now that they've changed their minds...you think they'll let the RACETRACKS call the shots?

The NFL and all other sports have no say... it will be up to each state... for example Maryland has to vote on it and it can only be at tracks and casinos... WV doesn’t need voter approval but it has to be at casinos/race tracks. I’m sure some states will be a free for all.

[horses4courses]

Sports books have always pretty much been regarded
as a loss leader inside casinos. I think the initial 5-6%
rise in Caesars World stock price this morning was not
about any potential rise in revenue directly from sports
wagering itself, but everything to do with the marketing
leverage that their casinos will acquire by enticing people
through their doors in order to bet on games.

Casinos are pretty good at marketing to customers,
both existing and potential new ones. Looks like
they will find different environments from state to state.
They will adapt and profit from it.

Racetracks, on the other hand, see this as a life line.
I really don't see much good in the long run for them.
William Hill will use them as a vehicle, at first.
Ultimately, they want their customers betting on phones
and computers. Smartphone apps mean big growth.
Everything else is a means to an end.

[thaskalos]

The NFL and all other sports have no say... it will be up to each state... for example Maryland has to vote on it and it can only be at tracks and casinos... WV doesn’t need voter approval but it has to be at casinos/race tracks. I’m sure some states will be a free for all.

The majority of the states are in dire straits financially...and they will be plenty motivated to milk this cash-cow to its fullest. This cannot be accomplished unless sports betting becomes a convenient wagering option...which it WON'T be if it's confined to the racetracks and the casinos.

[Nitro]

I could really care less about how those who might enjoy sports-betting might impact the horse-racing pools. As far as I’m concerned it would be just more stupid money going to those who take the game more seriously than just a 50/50 proposition.

Maybe more states should also legalize pot and make it available at racetracks. Can you imagine standing on line with some stoned individuals trying to make a bet? Well at least these losers could have a good ole’ laugh after emptying their wallets.

Seriously though, I believe the astute horse-player really isn’t interested in dealing with more distractions like a bunch of groupies cheering for a team that covered by kicking a field goal. These games all have their places among those who wish to gamble. They certainly don’t need to be co-mingled to be appreciated by those who play them for more than just some entertainment value.

I don’t know about anybody else, but I find playing the horses to be a personal thing. I certainly don’t need to surround myself with a group of cheerleaders for any encouragement.

[DerbyJackpot]

I could really care less about how those who might enjoy sports-betting might impact the horse-racing pools. As far as I’m concerned it would be just more stupid money going to those who take the game more seriously than just a 50/50 proposition.

Maybe more states should also legalize pot and make it available at racetracks. Can you imagine standing on line with some stoned individuals trying to make a bet? Well at least these losers could have a good ole’ laugh after emptying their wallets.

Seriously though, I believe the astute horse-player really isn’t interested in dealing with more distractions like a bunch of groupies cheering for a team that covered by kicking a field goal. These games all have their places among those who wish to gamble. They certainly don’t need to be co-mingled to be appreciated by those who play them for more than just some entertainment value.

I don’t know about anybody else, but I find playing the horses to be a personal thing. I certainly don’t need to surround myself with a group of cheerleaders for any encouragement.

Reckon thats why you stay home and bet horses. Which is fine. You take it serious and remove the entertainment aspect out of it
For your average gambler I look at it with "entertainment dollars" I'm going to spend my entertainment dollars on Friday night to have fun and gamble. So introducing Sports Betting at the track is going to give me an added incentive to spend my entertainment dollars at the track.

Again I'm a 20 age group gambler. I'm not an expert. I'm their for excitement and the best value for my gambling dollars. I just want to provide my way of thinking as a whole.

On a Friday Night I bring $200 to $300 with me. If they introduce Sports Betting I'll wager $50 on a game to keep the action going. And rest on horse racing.
If you come to the horse track with the mindset of betting sports. I see it going $200 on sports and rest on horse racing.

[Poindexter]

Dennis Drazin had a press conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3qbnTyiRoY


It is long but he did touch on some of what they will be doing. They clearly will have internet betting so it is not like you will have to go to Monmouth Park to bet a game. I assume in game betting will be available on line as well. He also mentioned that they will be putting together exotic bets mixing sports betting with horse racing. He did mention how popular in game wagering is, so I think the vision is that a bunch of sports bettors will come to Monmouth to bet sports hang out and watch games, make in game wagers and somewhere in between bet horses, fall in love with betting horses and save the racing industry:lol:. He mentioned that the money pretty much will be used for purses exclusivel to make Jersey more attractive to compete with other states for horses. He made no mention whatsoever of lowering takeout, so that certainly doesn't seem to be in their plans (shocking!). There was also mention of otb, so perhaps otb will be alive and well in Jersey for sports betting and horse betting.


With Jersey so close to Ny, have to imagine that in the interim (until NY comes up with something) this will be hugely popular with NY residents that cannot legally bet currently but can go to Monmouth to watch games and bet in game etc.


I have the feeling that there is a lot they haven't figured out at this point and whatever they decide to do will likely be trial and error and work in progress. They seem to have Jersey locked up, but agree with Tom that racing really brings nothing to the table. Be interesting to see what happens in other states.

[thaskalos]

The obvious fact that most horseplayers don't seem to realize is that a new venture could be very good for the horse racing industry at large...while at the same time being very bad for the racing fan. All the racing industry wants is a more profitable "bottom line", no matter how this is accomplished...while the racing fan wants competitive fields and large betting pools. If a new wave of gamblers storm the racetrack just to bet on sports, and 50% of the existing horseplayer base decides to follow them...then the horse racing industry will be ECSTATIC, even if a large portion of the wagering pool leaves the races in order to join the sportsbook side of the profit ledger. To the racetrack...it will just be a case of money moving from one pocket to the other in the same pair of pants. As far as the track is concerned, the overall profits will be higher, the purses will escalate as a result...and everybody will be as happy as they could be. Everybody, that is, except the remaining HORSEPLAYERS, who would then be left with even smaller fields and mutuel pools to deal with...turning this into a more vicious downward spiral than the one that the racino venture has put us through.

If I am being overly paranoid about this...then I apologize. My long tenure in the game has made me this way.

[Track Phantom]

The obvious fact that most horseplayers don't seem to realize is that a new venture could be very good for the horse racing industry at large...while at the same time being very bad for the racing fan. All the racing industry wants is a more profitable "bottom line", no matter how this is accomplished...while the racing fan wants competitive fields and large betting pools. If a new wave of gamblers storm the racetrack just to bet on sports, and 50% of the existing horseplayer base decides to follow them...then the horse racing industry will be ECSTATIC, even if a large portion of the wagering pool leaves the races in order to join the sportsbook side of the profit ledger. To the racetrack...it will just be a case of money moving from one pocket to the other in the same pair of pants. As far as the track is concerned, the overall profits will be higher, the purses will escalate as a result...and everybody will be as happy as they could be. Everybody, that is, except the remaining HORSEPLAYERS, who would then be left with even smaller fields and mutuel pools to deal with...turning this into a more vicious downward spiral than the one that the racino venture has put us through.

If I am being overly paranoid about this...then I apologize. My long tenure in the game has made me this way.
Not sure I agree with you on this one.

The main reason I couldn't bring "non or casual" racing fans to the track was how boring it was in between races. For guys like you and I, we use that time to either bet on simulcast racing or prepare for bets on the next live race. But for those people that don't really handicap, 25 minutes between races is an absolute showstopper for future visits.

I believe the combination of sports betting, and horses intermixed, would improve the overall experience for the casual fans. Right now, when casual fans leave the track, I'm afraid they remember how only a little bit of action is involved in a 4-5 hour day at the track. That could change with this ruling.

[thaskalos]

Not sure I agree with you on this one.

The main reason I couldn't bring "non or casual" racing fans to the track was how boring it was in between races. For guys like you and I, we use that time to either bet on simulcast racing or prepare for bets on the next live race. But for those people that don't really handicap, 25 minutes between races is an absolute showstopper for future visits.

I believe the combination of sports betting, and horses intermixed, would improve the overall experience for the casual fans. Right now, when casual fans leave the track, I'm afraid they remember how only a little bit of action is involved in a 4-5 hour day at the track. That could change with this ruling.

Those "casual fans" who you say 'don't really handicap'...what's stopping them from betting on the simulcasted races that you and I wager on? Why must they wait 25 minutes in between placing a bet? When I take a "casual fan" to the racetrack on a weekend day...there are so many races going on one after the other that I have trouble keeping my own bets straight.

I can't agree with you on this one Phantom. If you told me that YOU, as a "mature player", get bored because you have trouble finding worthwhile bets in today's short field-infested game...then I wouldn't argue with you. But the "casual fan" who, 'doesn't really handicap', doesn't worry about things like finding "worthwhile bets". He is there just to pick a few winners and have some fun...and there are more than enough races available in today's game for him to do that.

As I've said before...the "boring" aspect of today's game is just a convenient excuse when it's used to explain the disinterest that today's young gamblers have shown towards our game...IMO. Today's game offers more action than any casual fan could ever afford. If there were any more races offered to him on the same day...then we would be saying that he would never again return to the track because he would always go home BROKE.

[sour grapes]

I could really care less about how those who might enjoy sports-betting might impact the horse-racing pools. As far as I’m concerned it would be just more stupid money going to those who take the game more seriously than just a 50/50 proposition.

Maybe more states should also legalize pot and make it available at racetracks. Can you imagine standing on line with some stoned individuals trying to make a bet? Well at least these losers could have a good ole’ laugh after emptying their wallets.

Seriously though, I believe the astute horse-player really isn’t interested in dealing with more distractions like a bunch of groupies cheering for a team that covered by kicking a field goal. These games all have their places among those who wish to gamble. They certainly don’t need to be co-mingled to be appreciated by those who play them for more than just some entertainment value.

I don’t know about anybody else, but I find playing the horses to be a personal thing. I certainly don’t need to surround myself with a group of cheerleaders for any encouragement.

the jamicans at the nyra tracks have been smoking dope at the track for as long as i remember,no one bothers them and the smell is pretty good compared to stale cigerette smoke

[Nitro]

the jamicans at the nyra tracks have been smoking dope at the track for as long as i remember,no one bothers them and the smell is pretty good compared to stale cigerette smokeNo shit, Sherlock! And as I said, “Well at least these losers could have a good ole’ laugh after emptying their wallets.” Any player with half a brain would want to keep their distance.
I’ve been playing NYRA a long time myself and as far as I know the track concession stands haven’t as yet been selling pot to the general public.

[jahura2]

Like I said states like Kentucky are the big winners, as Kentucky will input regulations to only allow sports wagering at tracks... You'd see this more supported in republican states.


You really think Kentucky is going to allow sports betting outside of tracks? You'd have to be out of your mind to think they'd do that.

Derby, I enjoy your enthusiasm its good for racing. However you will just have to count me among those who "are out of their mind" , as a lifelong resident of Ky I feel there is no way the state of Ky. will be able to restrict sports betting to racetracks. When the powers in Eastern Ky. and Western Ky. decide they dont want to drive to their nearest racetrack to place a sports bet that will be the end of that discussion . No, once the flood gates open you should expect to eventually see sports wagering capabilities online, Speedway gas stations and your local sports bar that shows NFL games. Everyone will want to get in on the act in my opinion. Count me as one that sees limited positives on this as it pertains to horse racing. Hope I,m wrong though.

[chiguy]

I wish it to be through track/OTB only but it doesn't make sense. Probably going to end up through the lottery terminals so you can go to your local 7-11 or AM/PM to get down. In the end I don't think this does much for horse racing.

[Tom]

Why should it do anything for the tracks?
Look at what all that big time purse money at NYRA did for winter racing.

[DerbyJackpot]

Why should it do anything for the tracks?
Look at what all that big time purse money at NYRA did for winter racing.

You know what your right. We should keep doing things like were still in the 60s, like we've been doing the whole time. It seems to be working right lol? Like you are not grasping that culture changes in the US every decade.... This is what youth bettors want... You are only looking at this in your point of view only...

[BIG49010]

I could be wrong, but I see it being offered by states as part of the Lottery?

[DerbyJackpot]

Why should it do anything for the tracks?
Look at what all that big time purse money at NYRA did for winter racing.

Horse players like yourself are alot to blame for the decline. You want to b*tch but I guarantee you you seat at home and wager on tvg and never go to the track and support it.

At least they are introducing something or at minimal going to try something to drive in new clientele.. What is wrong with that... Do you want them to just do nothing?

Yes I understand the tracks have ****ed over the players, but if those players went to the track instead you would not have increased takeouts. Its that simple. The way the market is setup now, you got JoeBlow paying JoeBlow2 in which JoeBlow3 pays JoeBlow4 and JoeBlow5 in return paying JoeBlow6,7,8,9,10.... With this logic and decline in revenue it had to be increased.


Just amazes me how you guys want to complain but don't want to try nothing new.

I mean I go to the track 1 or 2 times a week. I try to support my track. Do I use online betting? Yes on occasion.
But I understand its hard to travel to the track everyday and its easier to stay at home. But why not go there once a week or once a month.

[thaskalos]

Horse players like yourself are alot to blame for the decline. You want to b*tch but I guarantee you you seat at home and wager on tvg and never go to the track and support it.

At least they are introducing something or at minimal going to try something to drive in new clientele.. What is wrong with that... Do you want them to just do nothing?

Yes I understand the tracks have ****ed over the players, but if those players went to the track instead you would not have increased takeouts. Its that simple. The way the market is setup now, you got JoeBlow paying JoeBlow2 in which JoeBlow3 pays JoeBlow4 and JoeBlow5 in return paying JoeBlow6,7,8,9,10.... With this logic and decline in revenue it had to be increased.


Just amazes me how you guys want to complain but don't want to try nothing new.

I mean I go to the track 1 or 2 times a week. I try to support my track. Do I use online betting? Yes on occasion.
But I understand its hard to travel to the track everyday and its easier to stay at home. But why not go there once a week or once a month.

I wish you could realize how wrong you are.

[JustRalph]

You know what your right. We should keep doing things like were still in the 60s, like we've been doing the whole time. It seems to be working right lol? Like you are not grasping that culture changes in the US every decade.... This is what youth bettors want... You are only looking at this in your point of view only...

Laughable, they will not go near the horse racing

[DerbyJackpot]

Laughable, they will not go near the horse racing

You literaly just elaborated on my point.

[JustRalph]

I wish you could realize how wrong you are.

Amazing isn’t it........?

Some people don’t know, what they don’t know......

[thaskalos]

2.) So how do we get them to play horse races? Its simple! We introduce large horse fields(racing secretaries can do this if they get off there ass), screw the 5 horse fields its a losing money fight.
- Introduce More Jackpot Wagers With A Max of $50 wagered on the bet. This gets rid of the whales.

3.) Get rid of the Live Odds and Probables 10 to 20 minutes before Post. This will get rid of your $2 to $20 bettors betting on the favorite. This will diversify the odds


He is disillusioned about the game...but you've got to admire his sense of humor. :)

[TheOracle]

Now I know bunch of the members on here are old timers. Whom I respect 100%... But I want to give you a 20 age group opinion on the news today.


They ruled today Banning Sports Betting was unconstitutional. This now gives rights to horse tracks to introduce sports betting at the tracks. To conclude this gives Horse Tracks many routes to improve. I'll explain why....

1.) Youth Bettors like myself see a better percentage ROI on sports betting. You can play a lock on a basketball or football game compared to playing a 5 horse field with likely chances the 4/5 shot wins... So introducing Sports Betting is going to bring youth bettors to the horse track. 100% certain

2.) So how do we get them to play horse races? Its simple! We introduce large horse fields(racing secretaries can do this if they get off there ass), screw the 5 horse fields its a losing money fight.
- Introduce More Jackpot Wagers With A Max of $50 wagered on the bet. This gets rid of the whales. Young bettors will wager on bets they see value in(I and My Drinking Buddies Do This; All 20 to 27yo) Take for example Fantasy Sports, Spend $10 to win $500,000....

3.) Get rid of the Live Odds and Probables 10 to 20 minutes before Post. This will get rid of your $2 to $20 bettors betting on the favorite. This will diversify the odds

4.) Make it where you can buy a voucher at the track. Download a app... Enter in a passcode, and upload that money onto an app and wager on your phone. Youth hate waiting in lines.

5.) Keep beer affordable, free programs, free admission


This is the biggest opportunity for the horse racing industry to revive itself to the gamblers... For a long time we have taken care of the horsemen with a welfare logic. These horsemen have no done a damn thing for horse racing. Screw them is my logic here. Take care of your customers

Thanks for reading guys.

Hey Derby

It would be great if they could make some tie in or a teaser with an actual horse race

Say someone bets on the Jets to cover against the Dolphins and if they win that bet they’re automatically entered into a win bet with the Favorite or whatever horse they choose in a Stakes race for that day

If they hit both bets they win twice as much or even more this way they now have an interest in the horse race and may venture into the dynamics of handicapping if they so chose

I think the blending of both games would make it attractive for a younger or novice player to get into the game

[Poindexter]

Horse players like yourself are alot to blame for the decline. You want to b*tch but I guarantee you you seat at home and wager on tvg and never go to the track and support it.

At least they are introducing something or at minimal going to try something to drive in new clientele.. What is wrong with that... Do you want them to just do nothing?

Yes I understand the tracks have ****ed over the players, but if those players went to the track instead you would not have increased takeouts. Its that simple. The way the market is setup now, you got JoeBlow paying JoeBlow2 in which JoeBlow3 pays JoeBlow4 and JoeBlow5 in return paying JoeBlow6,7,8,9,10.... With this logic and decline in revenue it had to be increased.


Just amazes me how you guys want to complain but don't want to try nothing new.

I mean I go to the track 1 or 2 times a week. I try to support my track. Do I use online betting? Yes on occasion.
But I understand its hard to travel to the track everyday and its easier to stay at home. But why not go there once a week or once a month.

What do you want us to say. We have seen this movie before. There will be an influx of cash, new people will be introduced to the sport. All the revenues will go to one thing exclusively, purses. Owners will have a ball. Racetracks executives will have bright smiles on their faces, there might even be a short term handle increase of 20% or more. But when all is said and done, you and your younger generation associates will get tired of losing 30 to 40% (unless you are the 1 of 100 that is able to climb the mountain) of each dollar bet on horses and will realize that the sports book is a much better deal. Sure places like Jersey will see some better stock and fuller fields for a while but the game is still broken and cannot sustain any growth for that reason. I don't subscribe to the theory that full fields make higher takeout okay. For a few it might, but for the masses they will just be making lower probability bets, losing their money faster and give up sooner.

I don't subscribe to the theory that racing has an exposure problem. I subscribe to the theory that racing has a retention problem. You cannot retain a customer long term when you are charging them over 30% in takeout and sportsbetting will charge them 4.5% to 6.5%(if they go to -115). They have to be excessively wealthy or extremely irrational to stay in this game. Now there are exceptions, carryover situations etc. but for the most part most people playing this game are hemorrhaging money (and no I am not talking about whales or sharps or those getting huge rebates).

Do I have a problem with what Jersey did. Hell no. Sportsbetting should have been legal for at least the last 20 years. About time. Do I have a problem with them having the state legislators giving them this hand out. Not at all. But I do think if they blow it this time and they likely will, this will be the last lifeline they will ever see. Sports betting certainly doesn't need Monmouth Park, but Monmouth Park certainly needs sports betting.

I cannot speak for others, but I am not bitching. I have a vision for this sport that it can go toe to toe with sports betting and any other gambling game. It can be a far superior game. As I always state, eliminate rebates, and make the takeout 8% wps, 10% exacta, 12% exotics. That will put racing on a level field with all of them. Everybody will have their preferences, but ultimately racing will succeed. The more mainstream gambling becomes, the more people that gamble., the more people will find horse racing. Give them a price they can afford and they stay in the game, but rip them off and they had for the exits really quickly. It really is that simple.

So I would like to ask you as a young person that likes to gamble on horses, what in this post do you disagree with and why.

[DerbyJackpot]

What do you want us to say. We have seen this movie before. There will be an influx of cash, new people will be introduced to the sport. All the revenues will go to one thing exclusively, purses. Owners will have a ball. Racetracks executives will have bright smiles on their faces, there might even be a short term handle increase of 20% or more. But when all is said and done, you and your younger generation associates will get tired of losing 30 to 40% (unless you are the 1 of 100 that is able to climb the mountain) of each dollar bet on horses and will realize that the sports book is a much better deal. Sure places like Jersey will see some better stock and fuller fields for a while but the game is still broken and cannot sustain any growth for that reason. I don't subscribe to the theory that full fields make higher takeout okay. For a few it might, but for the masses they will just be making lower probability bets, losing their money faster and give up sooner.

I don't subscribe to the theory that racing has an exposure problem. I subscribe to the theory that racing has a retention problem. You cannot retain a customer long term when you are charging them over 30% in takeout and sportsbetting will charge them 4.5% to 6.5%(if they go to -115). They have to be excessively wealthy or extremely irrational to stay in this game. Now there are exceptions, carryover situations etc. but for the most part most people playing this game are hemorrhaging money (and no I am not talking about whales or sharps or those getting huge rebates).

Do I have a problem with what Jersey did. Hell no. Sportsbetting should have been legal for at least the last 20 years. About time. Do I have a problem with them having the state legislators giving them this hand out. Not at all. But I do think if they blow it this time and they likely will, this will be the last lifeline they will ever see. Sports betting certainly doesn't need Monmouth Park, but Monmouth Park certainly needs sports betting.

I cannot speak for others, but I am not bitching. I have a vision for this sport that it can go toe to toe with sports betting and any other gambling game. It can be a far superior game. As I always state, eliminate rebates, and make the takeout 8% wps, 10% exacta, 12% exotics. That will put racing on a level field with all of them. Everybody will have their preferences, but ultimately racing will succeed. The more mainstream gambling becomes, the more people that gamble., the more people will find horse racing. Give them a price they can afford and they stay in the game, but rip them off and they had for the exits really quickly. It really is that simple.

So I would like to ask you as a young person that likes to gamble on horses, what in this post do you disagree with and why.

I'm for lowering takeouts.... If states don't lower takeouts for at least a year after injecting more outside revenue into the game, they are giving the biggest "**** You" I've ever seen. At this point I will never bet another dollar on American Racing.... I'll go 100% Hong Kong and Japan.

But anyway you look at it the first year a sports book is available at the track there revenue is going to be up at least 25%.

But like you said horse racing is a far superior game and has unlimited opportunities which have been screwed up time and time again. Better yet they have made it almost impossible to make a buck at the track. You are literally donating almost $3 of your entertainment or gambling dollars for every $10 spent. Thats ****ing ridiculous ayy! The customers at this point are there bitches. Excuse my french but thats how the industry looks at there customers right now... So I'm hoping positive things are attempted here. If not I'm done with them.

[AskinHaskin]

Now I know bunch of the members on here are old timers. Whom I respect 100%... But I want to give you a 20 age group opinion on the news today.


They ruled today Banning Sports Betting was unconstitutional. This now gives rights to horse tracks to introduce sports betting at the tracks. To conclude this gives Horse Tracks many routes to improve. I'll explain why....

1.) Youth Bettors like myself see a better percentage ROI on sports betting. You can play a lock on a basketball or football game compared to playing a 5 horse field with likely chances the 4/5 shot wins... So introducing Sports Betting is going to bring youth bettors to the horse track. 100% certain

2.) So how do we get them to play horse races? Its simple! We introduce large horse fields(racing secretaries can do this if they get off there ass), screw the 5 horse fields its a losing money fight.
- Introduce More Jackpot Wagers With A Max of $50 wagered on the bet. This gets rid of the whales. Young bettors will wager on bets they see value in(I and My Drinking Buddies Do This; All 20 to 27yo) Take for example Fantasy Sports, Spend $10 to win $500,000....

3.) Get rid of the Live Odds and Probables 10 to 20 minutes before Post. This will get rid of your $2 to $20 bettors betting on the favorite. This will diversify the odds

4.) Make it where you can buy a voucher at the track. Download a app... Enter in a passcode, and upload that money onto an app and wager on your phone. Youth hate waiting in lines.

5.) Keep beer affordable, free programs, free admission


This is the biggest opportunity for the horse racing industry to revive itself to the gamblers... For a long time we have taken care of the horsemen with a welfare logic. These horsemen have no done a damn thing for horse racing. Screw them is my logic here. Take care of your customers

Thanks for reading guys.


Even if you were a real entity, and not merely an ad for a pointless website, your logic is conceptually flawed.


Horse racing is to sports betting what slot machines are to horse racing - people want fast action, and the idea of sitting around for 3 hours awaiting one result is a relative snooze-fest.

"More jackpot wagers" are what have just about buried horse racing over the last few decades - so that is a complete step in the wrong direction.


And now, the granddaddy of 'em all:

If you don't post the odds after 15 or 20 minutes to post, no one wagering less than $21 will wager on the favorite (from that moment on??) ????

It sounds as if you needed the entire bunch of drunks to come up with that monumental absurdity.

Either that, or you don't understand parimutuel wagering.



I'm dying to know whether "Get rid of the live odds and probables" means we keep displaying the odds as they were with 16 or 21 mtp, or do we leave the screen blank?

Your silly post surely had no purpose beyond advertising that useless website given that you seem wholly unaware of modern day racing venues already utilizing technology which lets you wager on your phone or on a provided, hand-held device for that purpose.

Affordable beer, free programs, and free admission have long been available to the vast majority of players who play the horses every day, online.


You seem woefully out of touch with all things horse racing.

Those horsemen ARE "horse racing" - they are the ones putting on the show (thus the reason they get to approve or deny simulcast contracts, etc.). Track Management is the middleman with no product and no service to sell, they instead are just standing around with their hands out each and every day, at each and every track in North America.

The group that hasn't done a damn thing for horse racing includes track management teams from every track in the land.


There is simply no way that events of chance which go start-to-finish in 3 hours could possibly revive anything in a setting where events of chance already go start-to-finish in 90 seconds. That would be akin to expecting horse racing to somehow revive slot machine gambling in any way.

Now it is true that state lawmakers may initially decide that only pre-existing dens of iniquity may adopt this new form of gambling, and that may artificially support some factions which optimize all that is left on either side. Eventually, though, the logic will mirror that of casino gaming, where governing bodies will say: "well why should this grand new opportunity be limited to race tracks, which no longer pay the government much of anything? Instead why don't we approve it for every cigar shop and gin joint in our state, and screw horse racing?"


Just how many *hits* to that junky website did you anticipate drawing with your sudden flashes of brilliance shared above?

[cato]

we just need to find the DNA of Pete Rozelle, get it cloned ASAP and put him/it in charge of racing as the commissionser/czar of racing. Failing that - hire any strong creative business person as the commissioner/czar of racing with complete power.

That's pretty much why the NFL and NBA are where they are and why racing is wher it is from a popularity and economic perspective + why it has been virtually impossible to make positive, universal changes in racing....

[JustRalph]

we just need to find the DNA of Pete Rozelle, get it cloned ASAP and put him/it in charge of racing as the commissionser/czar of racing. Failing that - hire any strong creative business person as the commissioner/czar of racing with complete power.

That's pretty much why the NFL and NBA are where they are and why racing is wher it is from a popularity and economic perspective + why it has been virtually impossible to make positive, universal changes in racing....

Racing is ruled by state governments. Individual entities with their own interests at heart.

Federal oversight will probably never happen because the states would fight it, and probably win in court. Then of course even if you could survive Federal over-sight the Feds would want so much money it could never work.

There is no way to save racing. Government, as usual, is the albatross around the neck of the game.

What’s left of The game is filled with scoundrels and crooks. The good guys have left or passed on.

[castaway01]

I'm for lowering takeouts.... If states don't lower takeouts for at least a year after injecting more outside revenue into the game, they are giving the biggest "**** You" I've ever seen. At this point I will never bet another dollar on American Racing.... I'll go 100% Hong Kong and Japan.



But again, we've seen this before. When tracks got casinos, they got billions of dollars in revenue. Billions. Which of those tracks cut takeout? None of them.

And Hong Kong takeout is just as high as takeout here, so you're not saving anything by making that move.

I'm also with the group who says this is all going to go online sooner rather than later. Talking about liberal states, conservative states---it's GREEN that matters, not red or blue. Once one state starts online sports betting and increases revenue, the others will follow. That's simple logic.

The one positive of this is that it will enable people to go to a track and bet on sports and racing at the same time. If you find that fun, that's awesome, good for you. But improving the product for those of us who want to bet on horses? There's no reason to believe it.

[castaway01]

we just need to find the DNA of Pete Rozelle, get it cloned ASAP and put him/it in charge of racing as the commissionser/czar of racing. Failing that - hire any strong creative business person as the commissioner/czar of racing with complete power.

That's pretty much why the NFL and NBA are where they are and why racing is wher it is from a popularity and economic perspective + why it has been virtually impossible to make positive, universal changes in racing....

NFL teams need each other to play against, and to share in that billion-dollar TV contract. Racetracks are independent entities. What you're saying is like asking for the fast food czar to come in and control how McDonald's, Burger King, and Wendy's do business and get them to work together. Do you think McDonald's is going to give the fast food czar power over them?

[Tom]

we just need to find the DNA of Pete Rozelle, get it cloned ASAP and put him/it in charge of racing as the commissionser/czar of racing. Failing that - hire any strong creative business person as the commissioner/czar of racing with complete power.

That's pretty much why the NFL and NBA are where they are and why racing is wher it is from a popularity and economic perspective + why it has been virtually impossible to make positive, universal changes in racing....


The heck with Rozelle, we need Pete ROSE!
Who else knows more about sports betting than Pete~! :lol:

[Tom]

He is disillusioned about the game...but you've got to admire his sense of humor. :)

Can't wait for the UNICORN races! :p

[DerbyJackpot]

But again, we've seen this before. When tracks got casinos, they got billions of dollars in revenue. Billions. Which of those tracks cut takeout? None of them.

And Hong Kong takeout is just as high as takeout here, so you're not saving anything by making that move.

I'm also with the group who says this is all going to go online sooner rather than later. Talking about liberal states, conservative states---it's GREEN that matters, not red or blue. Once one state starts online sports betting and increases revenue, the others will follow. That's simple logic.

The one positive of this is that it will enable people to go to a track and bet on sports and racing at the same time. If you find that fun, that's awesome, good for you. But improving the product for those of us who want to bet on horses? There's no reason to believe it.

Referencing full fields in Hong Kong not takeouts. They are lower than US tracks I do believe though

[DerbyJackpot]

Hey Derby

It would be great if they could make some tie in or a teaser with an actual horse race

Say someone bets on the Jets to cover against the Dolphins and if they win that bet they’re automatically entered into a win bet with the Favorite or whatever horse they choose in a Stakes race for that day

If they hit both bets they win twice as much or even more this way they now have an interest in the horse race and may venture into the dynamics of handicapping if they so chose

I think the blending of both games would make it attractive for a younger or novice player to get into the game
I love the idea! I actually though Jersey was going to experiment with this? Could of sworn i read an article with something similar to what you said.

[Tom]

Finger LAkes used to have Pick the PRos and Ponies on Sunday.
You pick two races and two games.

Nothing was close to the chicken wings and Sunday racing died.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

If racetracks were smart, they would fully embrace this change once it is available in their state.


It really has nothing to do with horse racing, as much as they already have more than enough physical space and the hardware in place to make it happen.



Why not have Super Bowl and March Madness parties with food and drink specials along with all the wagers any sports junkie can handle including all the prop bets and craziness that goes along with these events. And as a sideshow, you still have the ponies that people can play as well.



Football Saturday's and Sunday's could be major events for them in which they can offer any and all action any degenerate within the U.S. borders would ever want or need, just like if they were in a Vegas sportsbook. And for the Jet fan watching his 3 hour wager circle down the drain in the 4th quarter, he can make a last ditch effort wager on the 6th at Aqueduct to get it all back while watching the race live as a railbird.



But..., that probably makes too much sense.

[castaway01]

If racetracks were smart, they would fully embrace this change once it is available in their state.


It really has nothing to do with horse racing, as much as they already have more than enough physical space and the hardware in place to make it happen.



Why not have Super Bowl and March Madness parties with food and drink specials along with all the wagers any sports junkie can handle including all the prop bets and craziness that goes along with these events. And as a sideshow, you still have the ponies that people can play as well.



Football Saturday's and Sunday's could be major events for them in which they can offer any and all action any degenerate within the U.S. borders would ever want or need, just like if they were in a Vegas sportsbook. And for the Jet fan watching his 3 hour wager circle down the drain in the 4th quarter, he can make a last ditch effort wager on the 6th at Aqueduct to get it all back while watching the race live as a railbird.



But..., that probably makes too much sense.

Any location that has sports wagering is going to have massive Super Bowl parties. Racetracks will have no problem fully embracing sports wagering. It's a shame they don't bother embracing horse racing anymore though. You can do both.

[castaway01]

Referencing full fields in Hong Kong not takeouts. They are lower than US tracks I do believe though

Hong Kong win/place/show takeout is 17.5% and exotics is 25%. There are rebates there but there are rebates here too.

[alydar]

The NFL and all other sports have no say... it will be up to each state... for example Maryland has to vote on it and it can only be at tracks and casinos... WV doesn’t need voter approval but it has to be at casinos/race tracks. I’m sure some states will be a free for all.

WV law as it is now says that the casinos will run the sports betting. Betting will only be required to run through them, not necessarily at their physical locations. Most in the state see betting through their phones as being a big part of the action.