That did not go as planned ....

[LoneF]

Ok I could not have been more wrong. Mendelssohn was the horse that got off slow and shuffled back and ended up finishing last ...

I am still not sold on Justify yet. He is obviously a better horse than I gave him credit for , but I don’t think he is a slam dunk for the Preakness. That was a DREAM trip he got in the derby ...

[TiffaniO]

Ok I could not have been more wrong. Mendelssohn was the horse that got off slow and shuffled back and ended up finishing last ...

I am still not sold on Justify yet. He is obviously a better horse than I gave him credit for , but I don’t think he is a slam dunk for the Preakness. That was a DREAM trip he got in the derby ...

22, 45 a dream trip? Lmao

[LoneF]

Ok I could not have been more wrong. Mendelssohn was the horse that got off slow and shuffled back and ended up finishing last ...

I am still not sold on Justify yet. He is obviously a better horse than I gave him credit for , but I don’t think he is a slam dunk for the Preakness. That was a DREAM trip he got in the derby ...

Cmon the racing gods could not have set that up any better for him ...

[TiffaniO]

Cmon the racing gods could not have set that up any better for him ...

Actually it was Good Magic that got the dream scenario and set up and couldn’t close the deal.

However at least Good Magic had the chance unlike Mendy and Moon.

[Grits]

No, LoneF, it did not. But, in horseracing like all of life, "the best laid plans of mice and men, etc, etc."

I bet two horses to win the Derby. Good Magic and Mendelssohn. I included these two with others in an exacta box, posting my choices here. Something I rarely bother with.

Still, I believe Mendelssohn is a very talented colt and I couldn't have more respect for a trainer than I have for Aiden O'Brien. To hear this man speak in interviews about his horses and their races is to listen to honesty, reverence, and grace.

When we can stand up and humbly proclaim a learning experience, we cannot possibly be seen as losing. Not in any way.

https://www.racinguk.com/news/ten-things-that-aidan-o-brien-learnt-from-the-kentucky-derby

[098poi]

LoneF,

You came, you shouted, you got banned. Now that you are unbanned some friendly advice.

When your hand is stuck in the garbage disposal the solution is NOT to try and get it out with your other hand.

[LoneF]

22, 45 a dream trip? Lmao

Thanks for pointing out the early fractions but what was the final time ? lol

[LoneF]

No, LoneF, it did not. But, in horseracing like all of life, "the best laid plans of mice and men, etc, etc."

I bet two horses to win the Derby. Good Magic and Mendelssohn. I included these two with others in an exacta box, posting my choices here. Something I rarely bother with.

Still, I believe Mendelssohn is a very talented colt and I couldn't have more respect for a trainer than I have for Aiden O'Brien. To hear this man speak in interviews about his horses and their races is to listen to honesty, reverence, and grace.

When we can stand up and humbly proclaim a learning experience, we cannot possibly be seen as losing. Not in any way.

https://www.racinguk.com/news/ten-things-that-aidan-o-brien-learnt-from-the-kentucky-derby

Very well said ...

Personally my own learning experience from this derby was to be smarter about buying into hype. I bought it hook, line and sinker about what a strong group of 3 year olds this was, but in reality this years crop of horses is very weak.

[PaceAdvantage]

Thanks for pointing out the early fractions but what was the final time ? lolYou said he had an easy trip.

It wasn't a hard trip. But he went pretty fast early...thus slow late...thus not an EASY trip.

He had exactly the trip any objective minded person would think he would get, which would have led most objective people to at least have him as a top contender...

Horses like Justify are always dangerous, and make their own trips. You probably knew this, but decided trolling would be more fun by telling everyone he has no shot...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

Very well said ...

Personally my own learning experience from this derby was to be smarter about buying into hype. I bought it hook, line and sinker about what a strong group of 3 year olds this was, but in reality this years crop of horses is very weak.The hits just keep on coming...

[LoneF]

LoneF,

You came, you shouted, you got banned. Now that you are unbanned some friendly advice.

When your hand is stuck in the garbage disposal the solution is NOT to try and get it out with your other hand.

That’s a good saying .... I am looking to another saying after this derby ... You got to beak a few eggs to make a omelette .

If Justify at 5/2 offered fantastic betting opportunities than Justify at 1/20 in the Preakness is a dream come true !!!

I plan to get my money back !!!

It may have taken a bit of a detour but I plan on making it to the promised land lol

[LoneF]

I wish there was jockeys like Pincay and Cordero still in the game that wernt afraid to mix it up on the track ...

[AirNate012]

22, 45 a dream trip? Lmao

My thoughts exactly:D:D:D



DVD and Instilled Regard looked like a pulling guard blowing up a linebacker.:headbanger::headbanger::headbanger:

Welcome to American dirt racing in the slop Ryan Moore!

[MadVindication]

No, LoneF, it did not. But, in horseracing like all of life, "the best laid plans of mice and men, etc, etc."

I bet two horses to win the Derby. Good Magic and Mendelssohn. I included these two with others in an exacta box, posting my choices here. Something I rarely bother with.

Still, I believe Mendelssohn is a very talented colt and I couldn't have more respect for a trainer than I have for Aiden O'Brien. To hear this man speak in interviews about his horses and their races is to listen to honesty, reverence, and grace.

When we can stand up and humbly proclaim a learning experience, we cannot possibly be seen as losing. Not in any way.

https://www.racinguk.com/news/ten-things-that-aidan-o-brien-learnt-from-the-kentucky-derby

Someone posted a comment that they'd rather own Thunder Snow than Always Dreaming. I think that's apt. There's more than the derby out there.

Do you think they should have scratched Mendy with the weather how it was? Did the jockey just pull him out of the race at the bad start?

I don't understand while they still ran him, if they could tell he was realy badly affected by the crowd and rain.

[LoneF]

I wish they would pull a Rachel Alexandra and run Monomoy Girl in the Preakness, but will never happen

[TiffaniO]

Very well said ...

Personally my own learning experience from this derby was to be smarter about buying into hype. I bought it hook, line and sinker about what a strong group of 3 year olds this was, but in reality this years crop of horses is very weak.

Soooooo... your $3 million Monster got beat 53 lengths by a weak crop of 3 year olds? Maybe he should be the one who goes to Thistle... oh wait, they don’t have turf at Thistle!

[TiffaniO]

I wish they would pull a Rachel Alexandra and run Monomoy Girl in the Preakness, but will never happen

I was actually sitting beside one of the owners of Monomoy Girl Friday during the race. He’s a good friend of mine and just last weekend we went to Belmont Park together. Anyway they aren’t foolish enough to do that. It’s the Acorn on Belmont weekend.

[Grits]

Someone posted a comment that they'd rather own Thunder Snow than Always Dreaming. I think that's apt. There's more than the derby out there.

Do you think they should have scratched Mendy with the weather how it was? Did the jockey just pull him out of the race at the bad start?

I don't understand while they still ran him, if they could tell he was realy badly affected by the crowd and rain.

If you recall, years ago, Edgar Prado was concerned going to the gate, he felt Barbaro wasn't warming up well. And we know how that ended.

In the Breeders' Cup Classic at Monmouth, years ago, the same connections of Mendelssohn (Magnier, Tabor and Smith-Coolmore) brought over George Washington, who in the past year had failed at stud. He ran in the Classic on a sea of slop. He shattered his leg in the stretch and was euthanized on the track. Aiden O'Brien said at the time "it was one of the worst days of my life."

Ryan Moore, to me, did the right thing for his horse. I would fault no one for scratching on a track like Churchill had on Saturday. I'm sure O'Brien could remember the pain of losing George Washington. .... I would fault no one for scratching on a track like Churchill on Saturday, but this is just me.

[MadVindication]

If you recall, years ago, Edgar Prado was concerned going to the gate, he felt Barbaro wasn't warming up well. And we know how that ended.

In the Breeders' Cup Classic at Monmouth, years ago, the same connections of Mendelssohn (Magnier, Tabor and Smith-Coolmore) brought over George Washington, who in the past year had failed at stud. He ran in the Classic on a sea of slop. He shattered his leg in the stretch and was euthanized on the track. Aiden O'Brien said at the time "it was one of the worst days of my life."

Ryan Moore, to me, did the right thing for his horse. I would fault no one for scratching on a track like Churchill had on Saturday. I'm sure O'Brien could remember the pain of losing George Washington. .... I would fault no one for scratching on a track like Churchill on Saturday, but this is just me.

I think they did the right thing I just think they should have scratched him from the race altogether but I don't know enough to understand how the trainers/owners might assess the risk to the horse of running at all. I wasn't worried so much about the N. American horses but, as exciting as the off conditions can be, I really hated to see the weather play out for them like that. The danger to the people and horses on the track. But I'm not some overzealous animal rights activist so glad that the show always goes on.

They are such tough, tough animals yet tragically vulnerable at the same time.

[Grits]

They are, indeed, tough and vulnerable. Every one of them that ran Saturday qualifies. This includes Mendelssohn who had never experienced anything like it--including the crowd, the track, etc. etc.

Welcome to Pace Advantage! :)

[Tom]

Thanks for pointing out the early fractions but what was the final time ? lol


Slow late - so where were all the other GREAT racehorses behind him?

Sucking air.

[PowerUpPaynter]

Did Magnum Moon finish the race yet?

[wreckless]

lol, another awesome derby week on the forums. seems like every year someone sets themselves up for a beating - good on you for taking it like a man , LoneF.

after reading a ton of posts from the members on here that i hold in high regard/align with, I ended up believing in Justify and got him early at 12-1 to win (Thanks R Fisher).

i then hedged that with a 1-2 prop bet that "the KD winner will not win the Preakness"

looking forward Pimlico

[dilanesp]

Very well said ...

Personally my own learning experience from this derby was to be smarter about buying into hype. I bought it hook, line and sinker about what a strong group of 3 year olds this was, but in reality this years crop of horses is very weak.

You don't know that.

I remember in 1987 thinking "what a slow Derby". Turned out to be an excellent 3 year old class and the Derby winner, who notched his 2nd lifetime win in the race, turned out to be the best American racehorse in 7 years.

[LoneF]

Soooooo... your $3 million Monster got beat 53 lengths by a weak crop of 3 year olds? Maybe he should be the one who goes to Thistle... oh wait, they don’t have turf at Thistle!

LOL ....

Don’t worry Sporting Chance is lying in wait for the Preakness !!!

[LoneF]

I was actually sitting beside one of the owners of Monomoy Girl Friday during the race. He’s a good friend of mine and just last weekend we went to Belmont Park together. Anyway they aren’t foolish enough to do that. It’s the Acorn on Belmont weekend.

I knew it would never happen, but she was much more impressive winning the KY oaks than Justify was winning the derby ...

[LoneF]

Slow late - so where were all the other GREAT racehorses behind him?

Sucking air.

That’s my point ... If there was anything even remotely quality behind him ....

[LoneF]

Did Magnum Moon finish the race yet?

If Justify and Magnum Moon had swapped post positions before the race than you are looking at a very different outcome ...

[PaceAdvantage]

That’s my point ... If there was anything even remotely quality behind him ....You're still...not...getting...it

[LoneF]

You don't know that.

I remember in 1987 thinking "what a slow Derby". Turned out to be an excellent 3 year old class and the Derby winner, who notched his 2nd lifetime win in the race, turned out to be the best American racehorse in 7 years.

It wasn’t just the slow time but it was the fact that nothing came running.

Did you hear Mike Smith comments to the outrider right after the race ?

[LoneF]

You're still...not...getting...it

What am I missing ? The way Justify crawled home somebody should have been able to come with a run ...,

[Fred Mertz]

What am I missing ? The way Justify crawled home somebody should have been able to come with a run ...,

Which horse is your Preakness tout? Folks want to know.

Thanks.

[dilanesp]

It wasn’t just the slow time but it was the fact that nothing came running.

Did you hear Mike Smith comments to the outrider right after the race ?

Sure, but that could have just been the track.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did you hear Mike Smith comments to the outrider right after the race ?No...what were they?

I heard the OUTRIDER commenting...Couldn't really hear what Mike said as a reply...I guess you did?

[LoneF]

No...what were they?

I heard the OUTRIDER commenting...Couldn't really hear what Mike said as a reply...I guess you did?

I got great hearing ...

He said “ I can’t believe it was this easy” It shouldn’t be this easy “

Now let me translate ...

“ I can’t believe the racing gods gifted me with another dream race set up and to top it off not one other horse showed up. “

[PaceAdvantage]

I got great hearing ...

He said “ I can’t believe it was this easy” It shouldn’t be this easy “

Now let me translate ...

“ I can’t believe the racing gods gifted me with another dream race set up and to top it off not one other horse showed up. “You sure that wasn't the outrider who said that?

In any event, it doesn't matter.

Anyone who thought Justify wasn't going to get a good trip to matter what, needs to reexamine themselves as a handicapper. This is the kind of thing that makes good horses GREAT. Talent + Advantageous Running Style. We've seen it time and time again.

And the naysayers always come back with "well, the horse got things its own way."

Yeah...duh!

[SkunkApe]

Very well said ...

Personally my own learning experience from this derby was to be smarter about buying into hype. I bought it hook, line and sinker about what a strong group of 3 year olds this was, but in reality this years crop of horses is very weak.

You bought into the hype, alright...

[SkunkApe]

...

[jay68802]

Thanks for pointing out the early fractions but what was the final time ? lol

With the pace he set the finial is solid.

I wish there was jockeys like Pincay and Cordero still in the game that wernt afraid to mix it up on the track ...

Promises Fulfilled challenged him and he took the challenge, then dusted that runner.

I wish they would pull a Rachel Alexandra and run Monomoy Girl in the Preakness, but will never happen

Monomoy Girl is not Rachel, not by any standards.

That’s my point ... If there was anything even remotely quality behind him ....

Audible and Good Magic are quality horses, and there is three to five others that can be very good.

If Justify and Magnum Moon had swapped post positions before the race than you are looking at a very different outcome ...

If, could have, might have been, the race was ran like it was and those are the facts to look at.

What am I missing ? The way Justify crawled home somebody should have been able to come with a run ...,

Justify showed the ability to set a very high pace and finish well. Maybe the other horses showed that they not only need a high pace, but also need the pacesetters to throw in the towel.

[dilanesp]

You sure that wasn't the outrider who said that?

In any event, it doesn't matter.

Anyone who thought Justify wasn't going to get a good trip to matter what, needs to reexamine themselves as a handicapper. This is the kind of thing that makes good horses GREAT. Talent + Advantageous Running Style. We've seen it time and time again.

And the naysayers always come back with "well, the horse got things its own way."

Yeah...duh!

Yeah.

One of my favorite pieces ever written about horse racing was Andy Beyer's obituary of Affirmed. Like many in the east, Beyer loved Alydar. And he always denigrated Affirmed for getting easy trips against Alydar and Spectacular Bid.

But by the time Affirmed died, Beyer said, he realized that he had completely misunderstood Affirmed. Part of what made him so great was his ability to get himself easy trips with his tactical speed, forcing his opponents to face adversity and beat him.

Tactical speed is a devastating attribute for a good racehorse.

[elysiantraveller]

That was a DREAM trip he got in the derby ...

What are you talking about?

I preferred him underneath in all of my bets.

When I saw the 45 and change I just hoped he wouldn't fold like a tent.

When I saw Good Magic roll up to him I thought I was hitting a couple of my keys.

Just because he made it look easy doesn't mean it was. Talent+Tactical Speed is always lethal.

[LoneF]

Which horse is your Preakness tout? Folks want to know.

Thanks.

I don’t care how many hours of race replay I have to watch I VOW to find the horse that’s going to take him down at 1/20 in the Preakness. Justify will pay me back with interest in the Preakness !!!

[SkunkApe]

I don’t care how many hours of race replay I have to watch I VOW to find the horse that’s going to take him down at 1/20 in the Preakness. Justify will pay me back with interest in the Preakness !!!

Please don't ban him again.

His posts raise my self esteem.

Like they say, if you're ever feeling fat or ugly, go the state fair. If you ever think you have poor handicapping skills, go read LoneF.

[PowerUpPaynter]

Justify makes easy trips. Is this not that hard to grasp? American Pharoah carved out 3 great trips to.

[Mulerider]

You sure that wasn't the outrider who said that?



Pretty sure it was the outrider.

[TheGarMan]

I don’t care how many hours of race replay I have to watch I VOW to find the horse that’s going to take him down at 1/20 in the Preakness. Justify will pay me back with interest in the Preakness !!!

Actually, LoneF if you just sit back and cool your jets and let the hype train gather momentum for another month , the best chance of you getting your money back (with interest as you say) from Justify will be on Belmont day.

It's a little early to tell, but I believe the Preakness will probably be a walk over for Justify.

The Belmont? Now that could be the time to pounce. :headbanger:

Time will tell.

[f2tornado]

The horse and rider make good trips. Yes, Justify had a perfect post but Smith made the most of it. It was obvious the the horse had the natural speed to be at or near the front which is often a good place to be in the slop. Would he have been beat coming out of the 17 hole? Perhaps, but the owner has the trophy. It’s too bad Mendelssohn got smoked at the break but I doubt he would have contended for the win regardless. He’d be interesting in the Preakness or Belmont since he wasn’t used all that much but sounds like he connections have other ideas.

[AskinHaskin]

about buying into hype. I bought it hook, line and sinker



There was no "hype" in the case of Mendelssohn other than what you fabricated on your own.


It wasn't "hype" that created the barn's 1-for-55 lifetime record in American graded stakes on dirt, and that reality was etched in stone long before Mendelssohn was a boil on his grandfather's ass.

You lost your money on someone who is near to an inept fool in American dirt racing as perhaps one of the finest trainers on dirt picked their pockets yet again.


It is akin to backing your favorite celebrity/actress on Dancing with the Stars just because they are your favorite in some other walk of life.

The walk-over for the Kentucky Derby is no place for inept fools.


With regard to the wagering windows there... inept fools line-up in droves to give their money away.

[wisconsin]

The horse and rider make good trips. Yes, Justify had a perfect post but Smith made the most of it.


He only had to put away one horse, who we knew would cave at some point during the race, while nobody else was within striking distance that was not already front runner and we know front runners cannot close, or seldom do, into a fast pace. He simply waltzed after he got the perfect position.

Look for even more lightly raced horses who have talent to be the "in-thing" in the future. No reason to hurry a horse along anymore when foundation means so little. Simply trot out your best in the big preps, get enough points, and you are in.

[cordoba]

Easy Moneys


easy

[coachv30]

It wasn’t just the slow time but it was the fact that nothing came running.

Did you hear Mike Smith comments to the outrider right after the race ?

A SLOPPY track makes it difficult for any deep closer to prevail..A horse like Vino Rosso for instance did not stand a chance on that track coming from the back. Other than Good Magic who had the rail trip down the stretch, NOBODY really gained any ground. I don't necessarily believe it was the lack of ability in this year's field but moe the track condition.

[LoneF]

Please don't ban him again.

His posts raise my self esteem.

Like they say, if you're ever feeling fat or ugly, go the state fair. If you ever think you have poor handicapping skills, go read LoneF.

I didn’t want to bring this up BUT ...

The super paid over 190k .... A .10 super paid over 19k

I posted a .10 super that was a $96 investment. I had the 2-4 horses on my ticket correct. If I would have had the heavy favorite on top I would have hit for over 19k profit so let’s not act like I totally missed the race. Did I anticipate Mendelssohn getting wiped out at the start and Justify getting a fairy tale trip that Walt Disney couldn’t have dreamed up any better ... No I did not ...


I will eat, sleep and dream the Preakness for the next 2 weeks. No missteps this time. I will be like a laser... The Preakness will be the crown jewel of my illustrious handicapping career ...

I know Baffert is probably burning up the phone lines now calling all the glue factories in the local Baltimore area trying to fill the race but I won’t let that stop me lol

[PaceAdvantage]

Now 5-2 (3-1 up until the last minute or so) is a heavy favorite...:pound:

Whatever helps you sleep at night bub.

[elysiantraveller]

A SLOPPY track makes it difficult for any deep closer to prevail..A horse like Vino Rosso for instance did not stand a chance on that track coming from the back. Other than Good Magic who had the rail trip down the stretch, NOBODY really gained any ground. I don't necessarily believe it was the lack of ability in this year's field but moe the track condition.

Good Magic spent the backstretch in the 3 path.

I think the major take away from this race is that you are going to have three very good 3yo's in Good Magic, Audible, and Justify who are all within a length or two of eachother in terms of ability.

[GMB@BP]

I didn’t want to bring this up BUT ...

The super paid over 190k .... A .10 super paid over 19k

I posted a .10 super that was a $96 investment. I had the 2-4 horses on my ticket correct. If I would have had the heavy favorite on top I would have hit for over 19k profit so let’s not act like I totally missed the race. Did I anticipate Mendelssohn getting wiped out at the start and Justify getting a fairy tale trip that Walt Disney couldn’t have dreamed up any better ... No I did not ...


I will eat, sleep and dream the Preakness for the next 2 weeks. No missteps this time. I will be like a laser... The Preakness will be the crown jewel of my illustrious handicapping career ...

I know Baffert is probably burning up the phone lines now calling all the glue factories in the local Baltimore area trying to fill the race but I won’t let that stop me lol

the full super paid 1$ 19k, they dont have a 10 cent.

[LoneF]

the full super paid 1$ 19k, they dont have a 10 cent.

Your right it was 19k for a $1 so just 1.9k for .10

I would have felt dirty cashing the ticket either way. Probably would have needed a shower afterwards lol

Well it doesn’t matter if they have .10 supers or not for the Preakness because I won’t be fooling around with that. When I beat Justify in the Preakness and cash that super I am going for the big bucks lol

[GMB@BP]

Your right it was 19k for a $1 so just 1.9k for .10

I would have felt dirty cashing the ticket either way. Probably would have needed a shower afterwards lol

Well it doesn’t matter if they have .10 supers or not for the Preakness because I won’t be fooling around with that. When I beat Justify in the Preakness and cash that super I am going for the big bucks lol

I bet against Justify as well...but I still can recognize his ability. You dont see to be able to separate the two.

[AirNate012]

I didn’t want to bring this up BUT ...

The super paid over 190k .... A .10 super paid over 19k

I posted a .10 super that was a $96 investment. I had the 2-4 horses on my ticket correct. If I would have had the heavy favorite on top I would have hit for over 19k profit so let’s not act like I totally missed the race. Did I anticipate Mendelssohn getting wiped out at the start and Justify getting a fairy tale trip that Walt Disney couldn’t have dreamed up any better ... No I did not ...


I will eat, sleep and dream the Preakness for the next 2 weeks. No missteps this time. I will be like a laser... The Preakness will be the crown jewel of my illustrious handicapping career ...

I know Baffert is probably burning up the phone lines now calling all the glue factories in the local Baltimore area trying to fill the race but I won’t let that stop me lol

Dude, you are off your rocker.

First of all....Fairy tale trip!? 22/45 in the slop, pressing the pace at 10 furlongs? Fairly tale trip my ass, and once again, there are no $.10 cent supers on the Derby.

2nd of all, it paid $19,618.20 to $1.00. Wanna know how I know? Because I hit it twice, no shower needed.

[Racetrack Playa]

You can bet a 10cent super @ Preakness:headbanger:

[LoneF]

Dude, you are off your rocker.

First of all....Fairy tale trip!? 22/45 in the slop, pressing the pace at 10 furlongs? Fairly tale trip my ass, and once again, there are no $.10 cent supers on the Derby.

2nd of all, it paid $19,618.20 to $1.00. Wanna know how I know? Because I hit it twice.

I already said I misread the super pay out. All my tickets had Mendelssohn singled on top so I just glanced at the payouts and moved on.

Yeah the fact no horse stepped up and put in any kind of a credible stretch run pretty much means he got a dream trip.

This horse should buy a lottery ticket. All 4 of his races were dream set ups. Once a decent horse gets Justify on the square than the bubble bursts ...

[PaceAdvantage]

Dude, you are off your rocker.

First of all....Fairy tale trip!? 22/45 in the slop, pressing the pace at 10 furlongs? Fairly tale trip my ass, and once again, there are no $.10 cent supers on the Derby.

2nd of all, it paid $19,618.20 to $1.00. Wanna know how I know? Because I hit it twice, no shower needed.I know someone else from this board who hit the super for a $1. This is some board!

[PaceAdvantage]

I already said I misread the super pay out. All my tickets had Mendelssohn singled on top so I just glanced at the payouts and moved on.

Yeah the fact no horse stepped up and put in any kind of a credible stretch run pretty much means he got a dream trip.

This horse should buy a lottery ticket. All 4 of his races were dream set ups. Once a decent horse gets Justify on the square than the bubble bursts ...Let me know when everyone has had their fill of this delusional character...or I might not even wait that long.

[AirNate012]

I know someone else from this board who hit the super for a $1. This is some board!

Sorry I don't post that much but something had to be said about LoneF's posts :D.

[jocko699]

Let me know when everyone has had their fill of this delusional character...or I might not even wait that long.

PA,

I am full, thank you.

[Parkview_Pirate]

...Like they say, if you're ever feeling fat or ugly, go the state fair..

Not to be confused with the old saying, "if want nice pictures from your wedding, get bridesmaids and groomsmen that don't make the covers of celeb magazines....":D

It's the same of s#!t every year. Handicappers, and I use that term loosely, letting their emotions get the best of them and coming to concrete conclusions based on a handful of races early in the 3YO season.

10 furlongs on a sloppy track won by a horse making his fourth lifetime start should obviously bring up some questions, but that doesn't mean the speed figures he's running can be dismissed out of hand. The reality is most likely somewhere in between, and it won't be until after Breeder's Cup next year, IMHO, that we can have a handle on how solid this crop is, and even then it if it doesn't translate to the breeding shed, the class of 2018 may soon be forgotten. I don't recall who American Pharoah even beat, though sometimes I wake up in the mornings and don't remember my own name.

Assuming LoneF gets past the 18 year-old restriction on betting in Maryland, he's setting himself up for disappointment in the Preakness. A suspect Derby winner can best be taken advantage of in the Belmont....

[Parkview_Pirate]

Let me know when everyone has had their fill of this delusional character...or I might not even wait that long.

Restrict him to the Religion II thread in off-topic. That'll learn 'em.

[SkunkApe]

Dude, you are off your rocker.

First of all....Fairy tale trip!? 22/45 in the slop, pressing the pace at 10 furlongs? Fairly tale trip my ass, and once again, there are no $.10 cent supers on the Derby.

2nd of all, it paid $19,618.20 to $1.00. Wanna know how I know? Because I hit it twice, no shower needed.

Nice!

I had 7-5-6-15. (Singled the 7 in all bets.) I thought I hit it, then they put the numbers up.

I'm still in mourning.

I had a big win on 7, though. So that's some small consolation. (Well that, and I didn't get suckered into the Mendelssohn hype. Didn't have him on any ticket. I already fell for that once, with Mubtaahij.)

[AirNate012]

Nice!

I had 7-5-6-15. (Singled the 7 in all bets.) I thought I hit it, then they put the numbers up.

I'm still in mourning.

I had a big win on 7, though. So that's some small consolation. (Well that, and I didn't get suckered into the Mendelssohn hype. Didn't have him on any ticket. I already fell for that once, with Mubtaahij.)

Man...that sucks! It looked like Audible got up on the wire when I first saw it. I do know the feeling though, I had LAL in the 3rd spot and BOM in the 2nd spot last year and missed it :bang:

I included Mend underneath just in case, but I singled Justify on top as well in all tickets, and keyed GM, Audible, and Bolt to hit the super underneath with most of the field. Got lucky, I had honestly not hit a single race on Saturday until the Derby.

[Vinnie]

What people (LoneF) in particular seem to be missing:

1. This horses first race was on Feb. 18th (less than 3 months ago).
2. 2nd Race a few weeks later.
3. Wins the Santa Anita Derby because he literally "stole it"on the front because
no other animal(s) dare I say on the planet could catch him once he was on
the lead on April 7th.
4. In less than a month from there he won the KY Derby at 1 1/4 miles on the
wettest track in Derby History. Apollo Curse my ass! It takes an incredibly
special animal to accomplish the aforementioned. Hell, it may be another
100 to 150 years before you see it happen again. He is just that special a
horse.

[cj]

Let me know when everyone has had their fill of this delusional character...or I might not even wait that long.

Doesn't this remind you of the guy that just couldn't admit American Pharoah was fabulous even after taking the Triple Crown and the BC Classic?

[Parkview_Pirate]

....Apollo Curse my ass! It takes an incredibly special animal to accomplish the aforementioned. Hell, it may be another 100 to 150 years before you see it happen again. He is just that special a horse.

Won't argue the horse is something special, but he's got a bit more to prove before he's crowned "best ever!". The Secretariat, Man of War, Seabiscuit, Seattle Slew (and the like) fans are not shaking in their boots.

Yet.

As for American Pharoah, he may be a fabulous horse, but he never stirred my soul. Horses with the stalk and pounce running styles (like Cigar) never will, unless they're breaking track records right and left.

[Vinnie]

I never stated that he or any other horse was the "Best Ever"! I haven't seen them all run, so, I would never make such a proclamation. He is without a doubt one Incredible Horse however. :)

[cj]

Won't argue the horse is something special, but he's got a bit more to prove before he's crowned "best ever!". The Secretariat, Man of War, Seabiscuit, Seattle Slew (and the like) fans are not shaking in their boots.

Yet.

As for American Pharoah, he may be a fabulous horse, but he never stirred my soul. Horses with the stalk and pounce running styles (like Cigar) never will, unless they're breaking track records right and left.

The way tracks play today you aren't going to see many track records at all unless it is a rarely run distance or a new track just establishing records. They are slower due to safety concerns. It has even spread to SoCal.

[clicknow]

The Preakness will be the crown jewel of my illustrious handicapping career

Preakness isn't usually a money maker. The Belmont is a race that will have better odds, and there are less horses that can successfully run that particular race. If i were you I'd save my $ for the 3rd leg.

[Spalding No!]

Preakness isn't usually a money maker. The Belmont is a race that will have better odds, and there are less horses that can successfully run that particular race. If i were you I'd save my $ for the 3rd leg.

In the last 10 years or so some big prices have come down the pipe in the Preakness. Cloud Computing, Oxbow, Shackleford, and Bernardini were double digit odds. Even Curlin paid out at nearly 7-2.

[GMB@BP]

In the last 10 years or so some big prices have come down the pipe in the Preakness. Cloud Computing, Oxbow, Shackleford, and Bernardini were double digit odds. Even Curlin paid out at nearly 7-2.

I think in every one of those context the Derby win was overrated, or a circumstance that helped the case.

Barbaro broke down, so that race is hard to even gauge .

Always Dreaming obviously relished the off going and was never as good a horse as that race suggested.

Orb did have a dream setup, the pace was insane in that Derby and he was not chasing a Justify setting it. His connections also helped inflate the price.

Curlin, at 7/2, against a 2 year old champion in Street Sense trained by a master horseman, shows just how talented people though of him. In most cases you should have gotten better than 7/2.

I dont recall the Shackelford race other than I dont think Animal Kingdom race was that highly regarded.

[Afleet]

Slow late - so where were all the other GREAT racehorses behind him?

Sucking air.

carrying 40 lbs extra weight in mud

[LoneF]

Preakness isn't usually a money maker. The Belmont is a race that will have better odds, and there are less horses that can successfully run that particular race. If i were you I'd save my $ for the 3rd leg.

Justify will probably be the biggest favorite in the history of the Preakness. I mean that literally. You beat him and it’s big payouts ..

[SkunkApe]

I never stated that he or any other horse was the "Best Ever"! I haven't seen them all run, so, I would never make such a proclamation. He is without a doubt one Incredible Horse however. :)

That, plus he runs like God.:)

[TiffaniO]

I didn’t want to bring this up BUT ...

The super paid over 190k .... A .10 super paid over 19k

I posted a .10 super that was a $96 investment. I had the 2-4 horses on my ticket correct. If I would have had the heavy favorite on top I would have hit for over 19k profit so let’s not act like I totally missed the race. Did I anticipate Mendelssohn getting wiped out at the start and Justify getting a fairy tale trip that Walt Disney couldn’t have dreamed up any better ... No I did not ...


I will eat, sleep and dream the Preakness for the next 2 weeks. No missteps this time. I will be like a laser... The Preakness will be the crown jewel of my illustrious handicapping career ...

I know Baffert is probably burning up the phone lines now calling all the glue factories in the local Baltimore area trying to fill the race but I won’t let that stop me lol

No 10 cent tickets... I had the whole thing

[tucker6]

Justify will probably be the biggest favorite in the history of the Preakness. I mean that literally. You beat him and it’s big payouts ..

you type too much

[Spalding No!]

I think in every one of those context the Derby win was overrated, or a circumstance that helped the case.
Rather than saying they were overrated Derby winners in those years, I would characterize them as "vulnerable" Derby winners--which would allow for the inclusion of Barbaro, whose Derby win was far from overrated.

Barbaro broke down, so that race is hard to even gauge .

Barbaro was vulnerable because it was highly likely he had soundness issues going into the race (based on the fact that he was injured only a few strides out of the gate). That's not something a handicapper should hope for or count on, but it's an inherent risk--perhaps more so for a horse coming off 2 weeks rest and a testing Derby trail campaign than a lightly raced colt.

At any rate, Bernardini registered a higher Beyer figure in the Preakness than Barbaro did in the Derby, so there is some evidence the result was not a foregone conclusion had Barbaro been in good shape.

Always Dreaming obviously relished the off going and was never as good a horse as that race suggested.
Always Dreaming, up until the Preakness, seemed to be a solid horse. He did fine on a fast track in the Florida Derby and did not appear to need an off-track to move up his performance.

So how was he vulnerable? Simple. Todd Pletcher. Pletcher's record in the Derby is horrendous, but what's even more brutal is the record of his 2 winners of the race (albeit a very tiny sample). Both Always Dreaming and Super Saver went from being consistent horses to outright inferior duds after winning the Derby. Suddenly, neither horse could hit the board in a race of consequence.

In short, as could be gleaned from the 2-for-60+ Derby record, Pletcher squeezes his horses to the last drop on Derby day.

Orb did have a dream setup, the pace was insane in that Derby and he was not chasing a Justify setting it. His connections also helped inflate the price.
Orb was a stone one-run closer, a decided disadvantage in the Preakness. He was also a clear post-Derby bust after tearing through the Derby trail. To a lesser degree, the sloppy track may have helped him or hindered Derby also-rans.

Curlin, at 7/2, against a 2 year old champion in Street Sense trained by a master horseman, shows just how talented people though of him. In most cases you should have gotten better than 7/2.
Nevertheless, the odds were a huge reversal from the Derby, where both he and Street Sense were roughly 5-1 co-favorites. In the Preakness, Street Sense was 7-5 or thereabouts.

Street Sense was vulnerable because he was a bit of a hanger (watch him drift in and swap back to his left lead after getting clear in the Derby as well as his subsequent starts later in the year).

However, more importantly, it wasn't so much that Street Sense was vulnerable as it was that Curlin was able to exhibit his true abilities at Pimlico. Considering his rushed campaign to make the Derby, the large field, his relative inexperience, and his lack of (or the failure of his jock to use) positioning speed, one had every right to expect a move up in the Preakness.

I dont recall the Shackelford race other than I dont think Animal Kingdom race was that highly regarded.
Animal Kingdom was another one-run closer at a disadvantage at Pimlico. He also was relatively inexperienced on a dirt surface and was essentially "lucky" to even find his way into the Kentucky Derby (he was an second-string entry/afterthought for his Derby-qualifying run in the Jim Beam) and had a single main track workout for the Derby. Curiously, he only started on dirt one more time in his career (his disastrous Belmont).

If any of this holds water, then the question becomes: Is Justify a vulnerable Derby winner?

I say "yes" for 2 reasons:

(1) his clear discomfort post-race, which may not preclude a start or even a victory, but nonetheless puts him at less than 100% (but at the same time will he need to be 100% against the field that ultimately lines up?)

(2) the sloppy going at Churchill clearly hindered the ability of the other horses to run their true race, somebody might reverse form. But will any of those actually show up (like Curlin) to show their true mettle? Doesn't look like it. I would say Good Magic, if he has an excuse, was a bit too close to the fast opening half 1/2 mile, but probably had no real problems with the slop.

[GMB@BP]

I wonder how Chad Brown does on 14 days rest, I dont have him in a Formulator card to yet.

[Spalding No!]

I wonder how Chad Brown does on 14 days rest, I dont have him in a Formulator card to yet.
That's a clear concern, but he has all but ruled Good Magic out of the Belmont Stakes and so can go all-in at Pimlico...if he enters.

Another horse to consider is Instilled Regard. Post-Derby he was supposed to get 30 days rest, which seems a quick decision from a competitive trainer like Hollendorfer, so perhaps he has an issue himself. But if not, given the buzz about Justify's hind leg, I wouldn't be surprised about a change of plans.

In any other barn, stablemates Audible and Noble Indy would be no-brainers to take a crack at Pimlico. Audible ran on fine and Noble Indy was curiously held under stout restraint to stay off the early pace despite improving with blinkers in the Louisiana Derby. The fact that they are Winstar-controlled (as is Quip) just lessens the possibility of an appearance.

Bolt D'Oro with a new rider would have been a welcome addition. The barn, despite good intentions, continues to make the wrong calls at critical moments.

Looks like longshot central after that. Perhaps Casse will toss in something like Telekinesis or Mississippi. Romans and Dallas Stewart will probably chuck in a no-hoper or two as well.

[PowerUpPaynter]

Justify will cruise in the Preakness. The payouts will be terrible. Worst betting Preakness is a while.

[dilanesp]

No 10 cent tickets... I had the whole thing

Congratulations! Is your name spelled with an "i" or a "y"? :)

[dilanesp]

Justify will cruise in the Preakness. The payouts will be terrible. Worst betting Preakness is a while.

As I recall, Pharoah's Preakness was pretty slim pickings too. :)

[PowerUpPaynter]

As I recall, Pharoah's Preakness was pretty slim pickings too. :)

Phoarah paid almost even money. Justify will be 1-5, Im thinking more like 2014 or 2008 when big brown won a 40-1 came in 2nd and a 22-1 came in 3rd the tri only paid $168

[SecretAgentMan]

Phoarah paid almost even money. Justify will be 1-5, Im thinking more like 2014 or 2008 when big brown won a 40-1 came in 2nd and a 22-1 came in 3rd the tri only paid $168



If Good Magic runs, Justify might be 3/5, if he doesn't, then yes, possibly 1/5......but the way people are talking about Justify being lame, who knows.

[TiffaniO]

Spelled with an I but the cashier typed in Y and printed it out before I noticed

Thank you BTW

[theotherside]

“I had a horse today that was good enough to win several Derbies. Just not this one,” Brown said. “I thought at the eighth pole that Justify might come back to us, given the fractions and the fact he was doing a lot of the heavy lifting up front. But that horse had another gear and found more. He was a deserving winner. He’s a super horse.”

[LoneF]

“I had a horse today that was good enough to win several Derbies. Just not this one,” Brown said. “I thought at the eighth pole that Justify might come back to us, given the fractions and the fact he was doing a lot of the heavy lifting up front. But that horse had another gear and found more. He was a deserving winner. He’s a super horse.”

Chad Brown drinking the Kool Aid lol

[theotherside]

Have you considered your argumentative,combative,non cohesive banter as a Bipolar condition?

[GMB@BP]

Listening to some of the Mendelssohn handicappers in hind sight....kind of funny.

I dont blame them for the pick, and they are right saying this race didnt tell us alot.

But how could anyone be surprised that a EU horse with a EU rider had issues coming out of the gate?

[lured]

Listening to some of the Mendelssohn handicappers in hind sight....kind of funny.

I dont blame them for the pick, and they are right saying this race didnt tell us alot.

But how could anyone be surprised that a EU horse with a EU rider had issues coming out of the gate?

Did Mendelssohn have other issues besides Magnum Moon crashing into him and sweeping him about 10 feet toward the rail? I seriously don't know. But if you are referring to what MM did, then I think you chalk that up to bad luck of post position and gate neighbors rather than being EU.

[LoneF]

Justify 6th slowest SA derby in last 70 years.

Justify 2nd slowest KY derby in last 70 years.

I guess he is on pace to run the slowest Preakness ever.

Super horse .... You betcha !!!

[luisbe]

I got great hearing ...

He said “ I can’t believe it was this easy” It shouldn’t be this easy “

Now let me translate ...

“ I can’t believe the racing gods gifted me with another dream race set up and to top it off not one other horse showed up. “

Those were words of the outrider, Mike asked him "for how much did I win?"
and the guy: "I think 3 or 4 lenghts"

[Afleet]

There was no "hype" in the case of Mendelssohn other than what you fabricated on your own.


It wasn't "hype" that created the barn's 1-for-55 lifetime record in American graded stakes on dirt, and that reality was etched in stone long before Mendelssohn was a boil on his grandfather's ass.

You lost your money on someone who is near to an inept fool in American dirt racing as perhaps one of the finest trainers on dirt picked their pockets yet again.


It is akin to backing your favorite celebrity/actress on Dancing with the Stars just because they are your favorite in some other walk of life.

The walk-over for the Kentucky Derby is no place for inept fools.


With regard to the wagering windows there... inept fools line-up in droves to give their money away.

Pay offs: $2.00 Exacta (7-6) Paid: $69.60 , $.50 Trifecta (7-6-5) Paid: $70.70

nothing like a $70 tri in a 20 horse field. I've hit bigger tri's in 5 horse fields

[Afleet]

A SLOPPY track makes it difficult for any deep closer to prevail..A horse like Vino Rosso for instance did not stand a chance on that track coming from the back. Other than Good Magic who had the rail trip down the stretch, NOBODY really gained any ground. I don't necessarily believe it was the lack of ability in this year's field but moe the track condition.

agree

[mostpost]

No, LoneF, it did not. But, in horseracing like all of life, "the best laid plans of mice and men, etc, etc."

I bet two horses to win the Derby. Good Magic and Mendelssohn. I included these two with others in an exacta box, posting my choices here. Something I rarely bother with.

Still, I believe Mendelssohn is a very talented colt and I couldn't have more respect for a trainer than I have for Aiden O'Brien. To hear this man speak in interviews about his horses and their races is to listen to honesty, reverence, and grace.

When we can stand up and humbly proclaim a learning experience, we cannot possibly be seen as losing. Not in any way.

https://www.racinguk.com/news/ten-things-that-aidan-o-brien-learnt-from-the-kentucky-derby

Thank you for posting that informative article. Mendelssohn was also my choice in the Derby. When I posted that his chances were over when he was banged into at the start and that he was eased when Moore realized he had no chance, I was mocked by a few here. Yet, that is precisely what O’Brien said in that article. Anyway, Itake solace in the fact that, despite all that, I only missed winning the exacta and the trifecta by 73 lengths.

[Parkview_Pirate]

... Anyway, Itake solace in the fact that, despite all that, I only missed winning the exacta and the trifecta by 73 lengths.

I'll be damned. Mostie made me laugh.:D

[Parkview_Pirate]

I never stated that he or any other horse was the "Best Ever"! I haven't seen them all run, so, I would never make such a proclamation. He is without a doubt one Incredible Horse however. :)

Since Saturday was the 144th running of the Derby, when you state we may not see a horse like Justify for the next 150 years, that implies "best ever", at least by my logic.

Dial up 1941 on the Derby Machine and then tell us how Justify would have spanked Whirlaway.

So far, Justify has done nothing wrong, he's done plenty to substantiate he's a solid, good horse with potential for more. But "Incredible Horse"? Ummm, not quite yet.

[1GCFAN]

Thank you for posting that informative article. Mendelssohn was also my choice in the Derby. When I posted that his chances were over when he was banged into at the start and that he was eased when Moore realized he had no chance, I was mocked by a few here. Yet, that is precisely what O’Brien said in that article. Anyway, Itake solace in the fact that, despite all that, I only missed winning the exacta and the trifecta by 73 lengths.

Wow, Mr. O.Brien is just now learning about American dirt races compared to the start and relax Euros. Now after 50+ races he is going to change his blueprint. It's not that hard! As most have have said, "ship early, enter at least one prep, use a top US rider and stay here until after the derby"!

His owners have all the money in the world and and Mr. O'Brien prefers to ship in a few days before the race. Success in the classic American turf races doesn't equal success in the American Triple Crown.

[Parkview_Pirate]

The way tracks play today you aren't going to see many track records at all unless it is a rarely run distance or a new track just establishing records. They are slower due to safety concerns. It has even spread to SoCal.

Fair enough. Good point. I guess I could add that "eye-catching moves" give me a thrill, sort of like Arazi in the BC Juvenile, Easy Goer's Gotham and Belmont, and Very Subtle in the BC Sprint. Top performances, in both speed and visually, in top races get the blood going.

If Justify stays healthy, we'll get a better read on how good he really is.

If Justify gets hurts and retires, "the body of work" as the ESPN talking heads would say, is gonna make him easier to forget (unless you had the super).

[Parkview_Pirate]

Justify 6th slowest SA derby in last 70 years.

Justify 2nd slowest KY derby in last 70 years.

I guess he is on pace to run the slowest Preakness ever.

Super horse .... You betcha !!!

A couple of old sayings apply here:

"It's not how fast they run, it's how they run fast." (??)

"Time only counts when you're in jail." (Carl Nafgzer)

[A. Pineda]

Rather than saying they were overrated Derby winners in those years, I would characterize them as "vulnerable" Derby winners...

...Animal Kingdom was another one-run closer at a disadvantage at Pimlico. He also was relatively inexperienced on a dirt surface and was essentially "lucky" to even find his way into the Kentucky Derby (he was an second-string entry/afterthought for his Derby-qualifying run in the Jim Beam) and had a single main track workout for the Derby. Curiously, he only started on dirt one more time in his career (his disastrous Belmont).

If any of this holds water, then the question becomes: Is Justify a vulnerable Derby winner?

Yes, not only is there a question of Justify's condition in the minds of many fans, but also because he will be facing a predominantly new cast of fresh horses.

Regarding AK, his story is one of thousands that many racing fans find fascinating. As you stated, he wasn't the barn's 1st choice to run in the Derby, but Toby's Corner injured his leg after winning the Wood, so AK's Spiral win was sufficient to earn him a gate.

The 20/1 ML was deserved, as AK had raced on turf and AW, but never on dirt. He was bred for the grass; his sire Leroidesanimaux, and damsire Acatenango were turf champions, and he was 4X4 to Lyphard. However, he may have tipped his hand with a 1:13.17 CD work a week before the Derby.

Robby Albarado had worked him that day, and was scheduled to have the mount in the Derby, but it was not to be. Three days before the Derby Robby was thrown from a horse and kicked in the face, breaking his nose. Although Robby said that he was ready to ride, Team Valor manager Barry Irwin decided to find another rider. (An irate Robby proved he was right by winning a $345,600 stakes race on the Derby undercard.)

John Velazquez had a Derby mount the three previous years, only to have each horse withdrawn. This year fate struck again, as Uncle Mo had a stomach problem, and was withdrawn, leaving J.V once again without a horse to ride in the Derby. Enter Barry Irwin and J.V. picks up the mount on AK the day before the Derby. Previously 0/12, J.V. is victorious with AK the following afternoon.

Two weeks later in the Preakness, AK broke slowly and was 14 lengths back at the half-mile pole, but closed steadily to miss by a half length. As you said, his Belmont was disastrous, when he was bumped, stumbled, and J.V. lost the left iron until they reached the turn.

While he never raced on dirt again, his next five races were an ALW win, two seconds in Gr. I's, and a win in the Dubai World Cup before he retired. He stands at Darley (America) along with Nyquist, Bernardini, Frosted, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and Medaglia d'Oro, and already has a Gr. II winner (Untamed Domain) from his first crop.

Isn't this sport great?

[Spalding No!]

Regarding AK, his story is one of thousands that many racing fans find fascinating. As you stated, he wasn't the barn's 1st choice to run in the Derby, but Toby's Corner injured his leg after winning the Wood, so AK's Spiral win was sufficient to earn him a gate.
Actually, what I meant was that Animal Kingdom was not the barn's first choice to run in the Spiral Stakes.

The original plan was to start a horse called Crimson China in the Spiral, with Animal Kingdom spotted on the undercard in the Rushaway Stakes. However, Crimson China--a Euro import--had less career earnings than the majority of the Spiral nominees and thus was at risk of not getting into the body of the race. This was not the case with Animal Kingdom, so the colt's swapped places even though the barn thought more of Crimson China's chances.

Had Animal Kingdom not run, obviously he would not have had any graded stakes earnings crucial to get a spot in the Kentucky Derby...another amazing detail in his story that highlights how improbable his win was as his connections were essentially clueless with respect to his status as a Derby horse (at least until he had that fast dirt work).

As far as Albarado losing the mount goes, I wouldn't shed a tear. He was in hot water just weeks before for choking out his wife and a year later lost all his Derby Day mounts after bruising up his girlfriend (who might have been the cause for the altercation with his wife the year before).

[boys at tosconova]

That’s my point ... If there was anything even remotely quality behind him ....


http://www.nairaland.com/attachments/4007697_57287447_jpegc591494e6eb2680ff4cb446d21678 cf8

[PowerUpPaynter]

Justify 6th slowest SA derby in last 70 years.

Justify 2nd slowest KY derby in last 70 years.

I guess he is on pace to run the slowest Preakness ever.

Super horse .... You betcha !!!

fastest half to ever win the derby. EVER.

[castaway01]

Justify will probably be the biggest favorite in the history of the Preakness. I mean that literally. You beat him and it’s big payouts ..

Every year there's someone here who says the Derby favorite sucks over and over and over (sometimes it's even the SAME person, hint hint). Since there's only been one TC winner in the last 40 years, they eventually get to tell everyone "I told you so".

Guess you're the guy this year, but Justify could finish 13th out of 12 in the Preakness and it won't make your last 300 posts sound any smarter.

[LoneF]

Looking at the horses who are being talked about as possible Preakness runners this field is going to be the biggest joke this race has ever seen.

Who is going to be the second choice ? I am guessing Bravazo who went off at 80-1 in the derby but based on the fact that he finished in the first half of the field he’s the second choice in the Preakness and who is the big new shooter ? Diamond King LOL

The racing gods have given me a monumental task in trying to wade through these sub par horses to find the one that will be the beneficery of the Justify bubble bursting but challenge accepted ..

[LoneF]

fastest half to ever win the derby. EVER.

Well that’s because this was the first derby without one legit closer !!

[PowerUpPaynter]

Looking at the horses who are being talked about as possible Preakness runners this field is going to be the biggest joke this race has ever seen.

Who is going to be the second choice ? I am guessing Bravazo who went off at 80-1 in the derby but based on the fact that he finished in the first half of the field he’s the second choice in the Preakness and who is the big new shooter ? Diamond King LOL

The racing gods have given me a monumental task in trying to wade through these sub par horses to find the one that will be the beneficery of the Justify bubble bursting but challenge accepted ..

dude your just digging your hole deeper. wait til Belmont.

and lets face it after that Mendelssohn, Magnum Moon 19 & 20 exacta you hit there is no coming back from that even if Justify finished dead last in the Preakness.

[LoneF]

dude your just digging your hole deeper. wait til Belmont.

and lets face it after that Mendelssohn, Magnum Moon 19 & 20 exacta you hit there is no coming back from that even if Justify finished dead last in the Preakness.

Mendelssohn got wiped out at the start and than assaulted again for good measure .... If your trying to say Justify outran Mendelssohn lol

Bob Baffert “ Hey Mick is everyone on board ? You know we NEED that dream trip to keep the hype train rolling. “

Mick Ruis “ Bob we may have a troublemaker. Word is Mendelssohn is not going to lay down for us . “

Bob Baffert “ What !!! Someone needs to explain to O’Brien how things work around here. We will go as fast as we possibly can for the first half and than when we are crawling home nobody comes running except for Good Magic who will make the token run. “

Mick Ruis “ They are not going along with the plan . “

Bob Baffert : “ Ok you know what to do. Tell that 15 horse to make a immediate left turn and take him out.”

Mick Ruis “ but boss are you sure that will be enough ? That Mendelssohn is a beast. Even if he spots us 10 lengths it’s no sure thing. “

Bob Baffert “ Your right. After the 15 horse wipes him out right after the break. Than have some of the other boys wipe him out again just to make sure “

Mick Ruis “ Ok boss. Hope it’s enough. “

[TiffaniO]

Looking at the horses who are being talked about as possible Preakness runners this field is going to be the biggest joke this race has ever seen.

Who is going to be the second choice ? I am guessing Bravazo who went off at 80-1 in the derby but based on the fact that he finished in the first half of the field he’s the second choice in the Preakness and who is the big new shooter ? Diamond King LOL

The racing gods have given me a monumental task in trying to wade through these sub par horses to find the one that will be the beneficery of the Justify bubble bursting but challenge accepted ..

Why isn’t your precious Mendy running? It would be a perfect spot for a one on one duel?

[GMB@BP]

Every year there's someone here who says the Derby favorite sucks over and over and over (sometimes it's even the SAME person, hint hint). Since there's only been one TC winner in the last 40 years, they eventually get to tell everyone "I told you so".

Guess you're the guy this year, but Justify could finish 13th out of 12 in the Preakness and it won't make your last 300 posts sound any smarter.

:headbanger::headbanger::headbanger::headbanger::h eadbanger::headbanger::headbanger::headbanger::hea dbanger::headbanger::headbanger::headbanger:

[LoneF]

Why isn’t your precious Mendy running? It would be a perfect spot for a one on one duel?

Bob Baffert “ Hey Mick I got a 12500 claiming race at Will Rogers I want you to scout for some potential Preakness runners.”

Mick “ Bob are you sure ? Those 12500 claimers can be a salty bunch. Sure Justify can handle it ? “

Bob “ way ahead of you mick. The racing secretary wrote a special condition for the race . Must have been a vet scratch at least 3 times in the last 4 months.”

Mick “ ok I’m on it boss ! “

[LoneF]

Why isn’t your precious Mendy running? It would be a perfect spot for a one on one duel?

A match race between Justify and Mendelssohn lol

One word .... EXPOSED

[TiffaniO]

A match race between Justify and Mendelssohn lol

One word .... EXPOSED

Two words, Mendelssohn eased.

If they truly aren’t scared, and think it was a bad start that created the debacle, he surely shouldn’t be knocked out from a race where he lost by 53 lengths...

You think justify 2:04 was slow... mendy’s 2:14 3/5 was literally walking lol

[LoneF]

Two words, Mendelssohn eased.

If they truly aren’t scared, and think it was a bad start that created the debacle, he surely shouldn’t be knocked out from a race where he lost by 53 lengths...

You think justify 2:04 was slow... mendy’s 2:14 3/5 was literally walking lol

Think it was a bad start that created the debacle LOL

Don’t say I never did anything for you. I got one of my best Preakness handicapping angles I will share with you ...

We already know ahead of time what Justify final time will be. Just research the slowest Preakness time ever in the last 70 years and Justify will be right around that just like he was in the SA derby and KY derby.

So find ANY horse that’s capable of beating that time . The tricky part will be getting ahold of the trainers cell phone records to make sure they haven’t gotten a call from Bob or his lackey Mick lately but if you can do that than your golden !!!

[LoneF]

Two words, Mendelssohn eased.

If they truly aren’t scared, and think it was a bad start that created the debacle, he surely shouldn’t be knocked out from a race where he lost by 53 lengths...

You think justify 2:04 was slow... mendy’s 2:14 3/5 was literally walking lol

I am surprised he was even able to walk after getting knee capped TWICE by the Baffert thugs !!!

[PaceAdvantage]

Everybody had their fill?

I know I have.

[TiffaniO]

Think it was a bad start that created the debacle LOL

Don’t say I never did anything for you. I got one of my best Preakness handicapping angles I will share with you ...

We already know ahead of time what Justify final time will be. Just research the slowest Preakness time ever in the last 70 years and Justify will be right around that just like he was in the SA derby and KY derby.

So find ANY horse that’s capable of beating that time . The tricky part will be getting ahold of the trainers cell phone records to make sure they haven’t gotten a call from Bob or his lackey Mick lately but if you can do that than your golden !!!

Well my Preakness angle is going to be... not bet a dime, sit in the infield, get drunk and see how many times I need to pull my shirt up to get a beer.

[TiffaniO]

Everybody had their fill?

I know I have.

Haha it’s actually quite humorous now that Mendy was exposed as a fraud lol

However, Pace, do whatever you deem fit, it’s your site and him getting banned 2x is actually humorous too!

[PowerUpPaynter]

Well my Preakness angle is going to be... not bet a dime, sit in the infield, get drunk and see how many times I need to pull my shirt up to get a beer.

i like how your thinking... first beer on me. see you there! :lol:

[PowerUpPaynter]

Haha it’s actually quite humorous now that Mendy was exposed as a fraud lol

However, Pace, do whatever you deem fit, it’s your site and him getting banned 2x is actually humorous too!

if you ban him again can we have him back for a couple of days after the preakness to laugh at this dude?

[LoneF]

if you ban him again can we have him back for a couple of days after the preakness to laugh at this dude?

Laughing while your tearing up your Justify tickets at 1/20 muttering something about diaper rash lol !!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

It never gets old to you...odd

[TiffaniO]

if you ban him again can we have him back for a couple of days after the preakness to laugh at this dude?

He can do it after the Belmont, travers and BC Classic too lol

[Grits]

Everybody had their fill?

I know I have.

It has been old!!

Tiffani, LoneF, the RACE IS OVER!! Take it to private messaging.

Please, put us out of your misery. :faint:

[MadVindication]

LoneF isn't as crazy as this poster I saw on horse race nation insisting Justify was ran as a two-year old and Baffert is a tool of the devil ("Baffermet", he called him). Or maybe that was his alter ego.

[dilanesp]

Well my Preakness angle is going to be... not bet a dime, sit in the infield, get drunk and see how many times I need to pull my shirt up to get a beer.

That's a winning angle every year, Tiffani.

[TiffaniO]

It has been old!!

Tiffani, LoneF, the RACE IS OVER!! Take it to private messaging.

Please, put us out of your misery. :faint:

You don’t need to read it honey.

[TiffaniO]

LoneF isn't as crazy as this poster I saw on horse race nation insisting Justify was ran as a two-year old and Baffert is a tool of the devil ("Baffermet", he called him). Or maybe that was his alter ego.

Oh my that is hilarious

[LoneF]

LoneF isn't as crazy as this poster I saw on horse race nation insisting Justify was ran as a two-year old and Baffert is a tool of the devil ("Baffermet", he called him). Or maybe that was his alter ego.

That’s not me, but it sounds like that very intelligent person could be on to something lol !!!

[LoneF]

Common Sense 101

Hype : This is the strongest group of 3 year olds ever

Reality : Justify has won the SA derby and KY derby with the sone of the slowest times ever recorded in the history of mankind. There have been reports of a tomb discovered in Egypt that had some drawings of UFO’s and also the words KY 2:03 4/5. The great Stumpy the 1832 KY derby winner who was 23 years old and only had 3 legs covered the distance in 2:04 2/5.

Conclusion:

A. This is the weakest crop of 3 year olds ever ( except for Mendelssohn which is why the hit was put out on him in the derby ).

B. The fix is in

C. Both

[TMQ]

Not only are you bad at handicapping, but you are a liar.......

[Grits]

You don’t need to read it honey.

You're right, Sugar Britches, I sure don't.

Though I was glad to see a new female posting here that knew handicapping. It seems, unfortunately, you're more interested in being combative. I'm sorry I spoke up.

[mostpost]

You're right, Sugar Britches, I sure don't.

Though I was glad to see a new female posting here that knew handicapping. It seems, unfortunately, you're more interested in being combative. I'm sorry I spoke up.
I’ve figured it out, LoneF and TiffaniO are an ex married couple who now (not surprisingly) hate each other. They now live only to aggravate and annoy death other and we are the collateral damage.

[TiffaniO]

You're right, Sugar Britches, I sure don't.

Though I was glad to see a new female posting here that knew handicapping. It seems, unfortunately, you're more interested in being combative. I'm sorry I spoke up.

I’m not combative til I’m provoked

[TMQ]

Common Sense 101

Hype : This is the strongest group of 3 year olds ever

Reality : Justify has won the SA derby and KY derby with the sone of the slowest times ever recorded in the history of mankind. There have been reports of a tomb discovered in Egypt that had some drawings of UFO’s and also the words KY 2:03 4/5. The great Stumpy the 1832 KY derby winner who was 23 years old and only had 3 legs covered the distance in 2:04 2/5.

Conclusion:

A. This is the weakest crop of 3 year olds ever ( except for Mendelssohn which is why the hit was put out on him in the derby ).

B. The fix is in

C. Both

I'm curious as to why you think Mendelssohn is such a good horse? I had him as a second tier horse, that is until I watched the Oak' on Friday. The 2nd place horse from the UAE Derby has a lot in common with the winner Mendelssohn. Neither one of them can run. Between them they beat 1 horse on Friday and Saturday. :lol:

[Grits]

I’m not combative til I’m provoked

You have a mighty short fuse then because all I asked was that the two of you take your arguing to private messaging.

[dilanesp]

You're right, Sugar Britches, I sure don't.

Though I was glad to see a new female posting here that knew handicapping. It seems, unfortunately, you're more interested in being combative. I'm sorry I spoke up.

This comment is really sexist.

If you don't like Tiffani's posting style, that's a matter of opinion, and you can certainly call her out if you wish to. (Personally, I think she's a breath of fresh air. But YMMV.) But leave the "Sugar Britches" stuff out of it.

This after we had a couple of days of homophobic comments on the board about Johnnie Weir and Tara Lipinski. I feel like we've lost basic respect for people.

[LoneF]

i like how your thinking... first beer on me. see you there! :lol:

What a cheapskate ... At least buy the lady a beer and a shot !!

[TiffaniO]

I’ve figured it out, LoneF and TiffaniO are an ex married couple who now (not surprisingly) hate each other. They now live only to aggravate and annoy death other and we are the collateral damage.

I’ve been happily married for 24 years to someone who would and has given me the world. Trust me, LoneF can’t hold a candle to my Babes.

[TiffaniO]

This comment is really sexist.

If you don't like Tiffani's posting style, that's a matter of opinion, and you can certainly call her out if you wish to. (Personally, I think she's a breath of fresh air. But YMMV.) But leave the "Sugar Britches" stuff out of it.

This after we had a couple of days of homophobic comments on the board about Johnnie Weir and Tara Lipinski. I feel like we've lost basic respect for people.

Dilane, thank you, I appreciate it... and I agree about the name calling, especially about Johnnie And Tara.

Calling me Sugar Britches is what I find combative and actually worse than anything LoneF deluisionally spews.

[PaceAdvantage]

This comment is really sexist.

If you don't like Tiffani's posting style, that's a matter of opinion, and you can certainly call her out if you wish to. (Personally, I think she's a breath of fresh air. But YMMV.) But leave the "Sugar Britches" stuff out of it.

This after we had a couple of days of homophobic comments on the board about Johnnie Weir and Tara Lipinski. I feel like we've lost basic respect for people.But you had no problem with TiffaniO calling Grits "HONEY?"

Interesting...

BTW, in case you couldn't comprehend, the ONLY reason Grits called her Sugar Britches is because Tiff called Grits HONEY.

Now, how much more ridiculous can this thread get before I shut it down?

[PaceAdvantage]

Dilane, thank you, I appreciate it... and I agree about the name calling, especially about Johnnie And Tara.

Calling me Sugar Britches is what I find combative and actually worse than anything LoneF deluisionally spews.But you calling her Honey was cool. :pound:

I guess I'm the only one on here who can read.

[TiffaniO]

You have a mighty short fuse then because all I asked was that the two of you take your arguing to private messaging.

Well just remember who called who what when you talk about short fuses.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well just remember who called who what when you talk about short fuses.OK Honey

[LoneF]

You're right, Sugar Britches, I sure don't.

Though I was glad to see a new female posting here that knew handicapping. It seems, unfortunately, you're more interested in being combative. I'm sorry I spoke up.



Oh the “ sugar britches “ comment was meant for Tiffini ? I thought she was referring to PowerUpPaynter. My mistake ..

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh the “ sugar britches “ comment was meant for Tiffini ? I thought she was referring to PowerUpPaynter. My mistake ..Bye bye asshole. Again.

[dilanesp]

But you had no problem with TiffaniO calling Grits "HONEY?"

Interesting...

BTW, in case you couldn't comprehend, the ONLY reason Grits called her Sugar Britches is because Tiff called Grits HONEY.

Now, how much more ridiculous can this thread get before I shut it down?

A woman calling a stranger "honey" (which is very standard in the South-- I have heard it all the time when I am down there) is not nearly the same as "Sugar Britches".

One is just an expression-- the other is both gendered and carries implications about argumentative females. It's basically like calling women the b-word.

[PaceAdvantage]

A woman calling a stranger "honey" (which is very standard in the South-- I have heard it all the time when I am down there) is not nearly the same as "Sugar Britches".

One is just an expression-- the other is both gendered and carries implications about argumentative females. It's basically like calling women the b-word.Dude, you're out of your depth here...trust me.

[dilanesp]

Dude, you're out of your depths here...trust me.

PA, I am not.

I mean, I have litigated sex harassment cases. I studied feminism in college and law school.

Equating Tiffani's use of the regionalism "honey" with a man calling her "sugar britches" is a classic false equivalence, which is a rhetorical strategy to prevent serious discussion of discriminatory language. It's "whataboutism", and it implies that as long as a woman doesn't comply with a just-made-up standard of rhetorical restraint, she's fair game to gendered insults.

PA, I'm not the one out of my depths here. :) And honestly, you should want to foster a positive environment for female handicapping talent on this board, lest it become or remain a sausage fest.

[cj]

Everybody had their fill?

I know I have.

https://assets-auto.rbl.ms/81211a1c2d0209a1032a72396adfecd05a5302adeaac940f4f 144731570cd43d

[PaceAdvantage]

PA, I am not.

I mean, I have litigated sex harassment cases. I studied feminism in college and law school.

Equating Tiffani's use of the regionalism "honey" with a man calling her "sugar britches" is a classic false equivalence, which is a rhetorical strategy to prevent serious discussion of discriminatory language. It's "whataboutism", and it implies that as long as a woman doesn't comply with a just-made-up standard of rhetorical restraint, she's fair game to gendered insults.

PA, I'm not the one out of my depths here. :) And honestly, you should want to foster a positive environment for female handicapping talent on this board, lest it become or remain a sausage fest.GRITS ISN'T A ****ING MAN.

I told you that you were out of your ****ING DEPTH.

Now who is the sexist?

[TMQ]

What is it about the Kentucky Derby and it bringing all the trolls out from their caves?:confused:

[Spalding No!]

Equating Tiffani's use of the regionalism "honey" with a man calling her "sugar britches" is a classic false equivalence, which is a rhetorical strategy to prevent serious discussion of discriminatory language.

What do you call it when you assume a woman is a man?

[dilanesp]

GRITS ISN'T A ****ING MAN.

I told you that you were out of your ****ING DEPTH.

Now who is the sexist?

Ok, PA.

Now why does that make "honey" the same as "sugar britches"?

[PaceAdvantage]

You should quit while you're far behind.

[dilanesp]

What do you call it when you assume a woman is a man?

Where did I do that? I don't believe I ever referred to Grits' gender.

EDIT: OK, I did in the last post. I apologize to Grits for that.

Sugar britches is still sexist language though

[PaceAdvantage]

Where did I do that? I don't believe I ever referred to Grits' gender.WHAT?

Equating Tiffani's use of the regionalism "honey" with a man calling her "sugar britches" is a classic false equivalence

Like I said...I'm one of the few in this thread who can actually read, apparently.

[Grits]

Dilane, thank you, I appreciate it... and I agree about the name calling, especially about Johnnie And Tara.

Calling me Sugar Britches is what I find combative and actually worse than anything LoneF deluisionallu spews.

Then, don't call me honey again, Tiffani. Thank you!

Honey has long been as sexist as any other derogatory comment directed at women. Not to mention, condescending when said by another women.

And, Dilane, I've said nothing whatsoever about Tiffani's style. This is the only thing that I've spoken up about. The arguing.

ME??? A MAN?????????????????????

I'm a Southern woman, and I still live here, Dilane. Decades. I just travel to NY a lot watching horses run. With 4,700 posts here at PA, you don't know yet I'm a female? People pay you to represent them in legal proceedings? Lord, you suck at discovery. :lol:

I'm gonna be honest with you. What you know about southerners wouldn't span the head of a pin!!!

Mike is right, you are way, way out of your depths.

Again, I'm sorry Tiffani for having provoked you.

[PaceAdvantage]

Mike is right, you are way, way out of your depths.Some more discovery for dilane...I'm the Mike she's referring to here. :popcorn:

[RunForTheRoses]

This thread isnt exactly uninteresting. Jus sayin.

[Spalding No!]

Sugar britches is still sexist language though
"Sugar" and it's multiple variations is just as common a Southern regionalism as "honey" and is not gendered...

[thaskalos]

I’ve been happily married for 24 years to someone who would and has given me the world. Trust me, LoneF can’t hold a candle to my Babes.

Is Tiffani the "most interesting gal* in the world"...or what? :ThmbUp:

*My apologies in advance if "gal" is considered to be a sexist expression.

[jocko699]

What a truly pathetic thread this turned into.

[dilanesp]

"Sugar" and it's multiple variations is just as common a Southern regionalism as "honey" and is not gendered...

Sugar britches is though.

[Grits]

What a truly pathetic thread this turned into.

Nah, Jocko. Have a sense of humor. It's all working out. You've never been to Saratoga in August handicapping with us. Anyone would tell you...."If Grits is anything, she's sporty. Never boring."

It's good to see a new female here. I welcome Tiffani and many more. ;)

[Mulerider]

Is Tiffani the "most interesting gal* in the world"...or what? :ThmbUp:

*My apologies in advance if "gal" is considered to be a sexist expression.

Perhaps we can car pool to the sensitivity training classes.

[Grits]

Dilane, I want to thank you 'cause for the last few hours, since you figured I'm a guy, all the advertisements I'm getting now here at the site are for Italian loafers and elite call girls!!!!

I don't have any use for either. I wear a womens size 5 1/2 shoe. And I've never had a penchant for girls.

:lol::lol::lol:

Oh Lord, now I'm getting Fixed Mount CB Radios. Who in the hell has a CB Radio anymore???? These people think I'm Burt Reynolds or what. Ain't he almost dead? He looks like it!!!

Breaker, Breaker, One Nine

[dilanesp]

Dilane, I want to thank you 'cause for the last few hours, since you figured I'm a guy, all the advertisements I'm getting now here at the site are for Italian loafers and elite call girls!!!!

I don't have any use for either. I wear a womens size 5 1/2 shoe. And I've never had a penchant for girls.

:lol::lol::lol:

Oh Lord, now I'm getting Fixed Mount CB Radios. Who in the hell has a CB Radio anymore???? These people think I'm Burt Reynolds or what. Ain't he almost dead? He looks like it!!!

Breaker, Breaker, One Nine

Hopefully southern culture has advanced somewhat since Jackie Gleason's performance Smokey And the Bandit.

Although, true story, when I was in Louisville in 1988 for the Breeders' Cup, I personally witnessed a white manager at a McDonald's call his black subordinate the n-word after the subordinate messed up an order. So you never know.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hopefully southern culture has advanced somewhat since Jackie Gleason's performance Smokey And the Bandit.

Although, true story, when I was in Louisville in 1988 for the Breeders' Cup, I personally witnessed a white manager at a McDonald's call his black subordinate the n-word after the subordinate messed up an order. So you never know.Now you've gone and done it.

[clicknow]

You're right, Sugar Britches, I sure don't.

Though I was glad to see a new female posting here that knew handicapping. It seems, unfortunately, you're more interested in being combative. I'm sorry I spoke up.

:ThmbUp:

[Mulerider]

Now you've gone and done it.

Nah, we're used to the stereotyping.

[thaskalos]

Dilane, I want to thank you 'cause for the last few hours, since you figured I'm a guy, all the advertisements I'm getting now here at the site are for Italian loafers and elite call girls!!!!

I don't have any use for either. I wear a womens size 5 1/2 shoe. And I've never had a penchant for girls.


It could be worse. Whenever I log onto this site...I only see bathing suit ads for over-sized women.

[Grits]

Oh Thask, that's a bad visual....:lol: It's the equivalent of fat dudes in speedos. I have a story I could share....but I best not.

Dilane, Mulerider is right, we're used to the stereotyping. We have a high tolerance for the less informed. Which, in this particular moment, would be you. :lol:

Honestly, gentleman, y'all have given me the best day. I have laughed myself silly. I adore all of you.

[dilanesp]

Oh Thask, that's a bad visual....:lol: It's the equivalent of fat dudes in speedos. I have a story I could share....but I best not.

Dilane, Mulerider is right, we're used to the stereotyping. We have a high tolerance for the less informed. Which, in this particular moment, would be you. :lol:

Honestly, gentleman, y'all have given me the best day. I have laughed myself silly. I adore all of you.

The south stereotypes other regions just as much as we stereotype y'all, Grits. Don't you know we are a bunch of godless humorless politically correct discourteous libertines out on the coasts?

It's not all moonlight and magnolias, as one author (from the South) once observed.....

[Afleet]

What do you call it when you assume a woman is a man?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgOIEGz7o_s

[Grits]

I know, Dilane. I don't care where we are located...we know someone is thinking, WHY would they choose there? If I ever get to Delmar on opening day, I'll look for you.

Winston Churchill said "the most beautiful voice in the world is that of an educated Southern woman."

He was correct. ;)

[Mulerider]

It's not all moonlight and magnolias, as one author (from the South) once observed.....

You're the one who brought race into it.

"I have never seen, even in Mississippi and Alabama, mobs as hateful as I've seen here in Chicago." - Dr. Martin Luther King, August 5, 1966

We can play this as long as you'd like. Off Topic would be more appropriate.

[GaryG]

Winston Churchill said "the most beautiful voice in the world is that of an educated Southern woman."

He was correct. ;)Amen....I'm married to one.

[cj]

Let's keep this at least mildly related to horse racing or it is time to close.

[BlueChip@DRF]

The topic? I always say that to myself after the race I bet on has ended.

[dilanesp]

I know, Dilane. I don't care where we are located...we know someone is thinking, WHY would they choose there? If I ever get to Delmar on opening day, I'll look for you.

Winston Churchill said "the most beautiful voice in the world is that of an educated Southern woman."

He was correct. ;)

I will get you a hat and happily take you to Del Mar. :)

[papillon]

Think it was a bad start that created the debacle LOL

Don’t say I never did anything for you. I got one of my best Preakness handicapping angles I will share with you ...

We already know ahead of time what Justify final time will be. Just research the slowest Preakness time ever in the last 70 years and Justify will be right around that just like he was in the SA derby and KY derby.



I lol'd

FWIW, Moore indicated it was it was an incident on the far turn that is what caused him to finally pull Mendelssohn up. Noble Indy was causing trouble up there, almost knocked Bravazo off his feet, so it may have involved him. Given that Noble Indy's jock was obsessed with Mendelssohn's whereabouts between the break and the first turn, and then bedside him until he was pulled up, it's plausible. Moore also said Mendelssohn had no trouble with track or the kick back, neither did Seahenge in the Pat Day Mile.

The still photos at Bloodhorse are worth a gander. The ones showing Nobel Indy's jock standing up looking back at Mendelssohn being squeezed between Magnum Moon and Audible are priceless. Someone here mentioned how odd it was that Noble Indy was on a tight hold...

Mendelssohn didn't miss the break. He broke well, but unfortunately right into Instilled Regard who had been pushed over by Magnum Moon. Mendelssohn cleared Instilled Regard only to be caged in by Magnum Moon, who would lay on him half way down the stretch, Nobel Indy (in front), and Enticed, who would be physically pressed into Mendelssohn by Audible. Mendelssohn kicked free of all of them with Noble Indy on the first turn. Given his start, the position he was able to take up going into the far turn was respectable.

Aiden O'Brien is one of the most soft spoken, self depricating people in racing. Calling the KY derby on Saturday "savage," was not hyperbole I don't think. I think he was disgusted by the whole spectacle, including "people covered in plastic" (that line was so funny!) I think both he and Moore were disturbed by an apparent disregard for the safety of riders and horses all around. He's a man who brings Ballydoyle water with him for the horses, after all, and like a true horseman, had on a proper rain jacket and cap, unlike Bob Baffert's haute coture clear plastic garbage bag.

To the blondy--if you do not think Justify is a turf horse, then it is illogical for you to insist his brother, Beholder's brother, is a turf horse. Mendelssohn appears, like his brother Flameaway, to be an all surface horse.

The two path is def where you wanted to be. You sure didn't want to be in the path 1 or the 4 or wider. If Good Magic's jock had kept him in the 2 path until the last moment he would have won. If Audible had swung back into the 2 path he may have caught him too. The golden 2 path.

[1GCFAN]

Mendelssohn broke out and was slammed by the 15 and others breaking in. It seemed to me he was roughed up pretty good and again in the turn. Not a fan of Mendy but he didn't get to show his stuff. Hope he comes back as Mr. O'Brien said and gives it another go.

[Spalding No!]

FWIW, Moore indicated it was it was an incident on the far turn that is what caused him to finally pull Mendelssohn up. Noble Indy was causing trouble up there, almost knocked Bravazo off his feet, so it may have involved him. Given that Noble Indy's jock was obsessed with Mendelssohn's whereabouts between the break and the first turn, and then bedside him until he was pulled up, it's plausible.
I don't think Noble Indy's jockey was concerned with Mendelssohn. He was looking to his left because he was looking to tuck in behind Good Magic. Unfortunately, when he did come over, Moore was pushing on Mendelssohn to get into the same spot and nearly ran up his heels.

I was the one who noted that Noble Indy was under a hard hold, but after reviewing it, it looks like his jock gave up the ghost of heading to the front end once the Derby genius Espinoza decided to blast Bolt D'Oro near the lead. It was either engage that kamikaze pilot and go very wide into the first turn, or try and save some ground and hope for the best from the second flight.

After that, Noble Indy was always in front of Mendelssohn and never beside him. Both quit early, but Mendelssohn gave way much more readily and Noble Indy was well clear of him as he throttled down through the stretch.

[clicknow]

Mendelssohn broke out and was slammed by the 15 and others breaking in. It seemed to me he was roughed up pretty good and again in the turn. Not a fan of Mendy but he didn't get to show his stuff.

That's what I saw.

[clicknow]

Aiden O'Brien is one of the most soft spoken, self depricating people in racing.

Indeed, nobody would accuse AOB of not having a lot of class. I don't even know anybody who would say anything bad about him.

Perhaps "free for all" racing isn't what everybody wants or likes for their horses.

Horses coming back to stable bloody isn't necessarily good racing. The track was a mess, and I was just very happy to see everyone make it out safely. For a while there I thought the horses that careened into each other at the start could have been a very bad situation.....

[MadVindication]

Perhaps we can car pool to the sensitivity training classes.

I'm riding Justify to the sensitivity training classes. It will be the slowest ride to sensitivity training classes in the 70 year history of riding to classes. Justify just doesn't have a high enough horse power rating, he's all hype.

[MadVindication]

You should quit while you're far behind.

You mean "pull a Mendelsohn"

I can't resist jokes.

[dilanesp]

Indeed, nobody would accuse AOB of not having a lot of class. I don't even know anybody who would say anything bad about him.

Perhaps "free for all" racing isn't what everybody wants or likes for their horses.

Horses coming back to stable bloody isn't necessarily good racing. The track was a mess, and I was just very happy to see everyone make it out safely. For a while there I thought the horses that careened into each other at the start could have been a very bad situation.....

AOB may be personally charming, but I think he is very arrogant in assuming he can ship in and win these big dirt races. I remember when George Washington died in front of me on the Monmouth track.

If AOB wants to win the biggest American dirt races, he needs to stop trying to do it his way and take a page from the methods of successful American trainers.

[clicknow]

I remember when George Washington died in front of me on the Monmouth track.

Let's not go to the trainer's "dead horses" angle.

(That opens up a pretty big can o' worms....like comparing fatalities of horses by trainers.....)

Besides, it's a low blow.


I know of nobody who would call AOB "arrogant". Well, besides you. As for taking a clue from american dirt trainers, I believe AOB last year set the new World Record for most G1 races won on the flat, beating Bobby Frankel's 2003 world record. No not on dirt but still. An incredibly capable horseman.

[AskinHaskin]

Mendelssohn got wiped out at the start and than assaulted again for good measure ....


Uh, McCracken got wiped-out at the start of the Derby in worse fashion but he still had enough in the tank to beat twelve of’em. Mendelssohn ran dead ass last (again) with no excuse other than predictably-inept preparation.

That you couldn’t predict what was obvious to most is on you, not on others.

So give it up already!

[thaskalos]

AOB may be personally charming, but I think he is very arrogant in assuming he can ship in and win these big dirt races. I remember when George Washington died in front of me on the Monmouth track.

If AOB wants to win the biggest American dirt races, he needs to stop trying to do it his way and take a page from the methods of successful American trainers.

In my opinion...AOB has earned the right to do things "his way" in this game. He needn't resort to the advice of horseplayers who, oddly enough, insist upon doing things "their way" themselves.

[RunForTheRoses]

AOB did train Giants Causeway so its not like he's a total incompetent on dirt.

[dilanesp]

Let's not go to the trainer's "dead horses" angle.

(That opens up a pretty big can o' worms....like comparing fatalities of horses by trainers.....)

Besides, it's a low blow.


I know of nobody who would call AOB "arrogant". Well, besides you. As for taking a clue from american dirt trainers, I believe AOB last year set the new World Record for most G1 races won on the flat, beating Bobby Frankel's 2003 world record. No not on dirt but still. An incredibly capable horseman.

I would never say he isn't a good horsemen. Arrogant people usually have reason to be arrogant.

But I don't care how charming he is with members of the media, his CONDUCT (refusing to properly prepare his horses for American dirt racing) is arrogant. And yes, his arrogance killed George Washington. Right in front of me.

[biggestal99]

22, 45 a dream trip? Lmao

and came home....what was that final quarter?

Allan

[cj]

and came home....what was that final quarter?

Allan

Faster than every other horse within 8 lengths after the opening half...much faster actually.

[f2tornado]

and came home....what was that final quarter?

Allan

How the FQ split in 2018 compares to other sloppy years..

2018: 26.85
2013: 26.73
2010: 26.80

The half mile clock was pretty quick in all three as well...
2018: 45.77
2013: 45.33
2010: 46.16

Pretty average sloppy Derby from a clock perspective.

[Afleet]

and came home....what was that final quarter?

Allan

I read he ran the last 6F in 1:18-haven't verified this

[Afleet]

Uh, McCracken got wiped-out at the start of the Derby in worse fashion but he still had enough in the tank to beat twelve of’em. Mendelssohn ran dead ass last (again) with no excuse other than predictably-inept preparation.

That you couldn’t predict what was obvious to most is on you, not on others.

So give it up already!

Why did you have him ranked 7th in your derby poll if you hated him so much?

[Raider]

:bang::ThmbUp:What a truly pathetic thread this turned into.

[f2tornado]

I read he ran the last 6F in 1:18-haven't verified this

It is accurate, at least based on the official clock.

Final 6F race splits in the Derby slop:

2018 - 1:18.43
2013 - 1:17.56
2010 - 1:18.29

Again, 2018 approximated previous slop sessions. It was a very average race on many metrics aside from what was half a length behind from a wire job.

[dilanesp]

It is accurate, at least based on the official clock.

Final 6F race splits in the Derby slop:

2018 - 1:18.43
2013 - 1:17.56
2010 - 1:18.29

Again, 2018 approximated previous slop sessions. It was a very average race on many metrics aside from what was half a length behind from a wire job.

In Sunday Silence's Derby it was 1:18 2/5.

[Spalding No!]

In Sunday Silence's Derby it was 1:18 2/5.
Sunday Silence was nearly 7 lengths off the lead after the first 1/2 mile.

[dilanesp]

Sunday Silence was nearly 7 lengths off the lead after the first 1/2 mile.

I thought we were discussing the fractions, not where the winner was.

EDIT: And it looks like it was closer to 5 lengths. No Trakus back then LOL.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ogv_jkBS3AM

[GMB@BP]

That track looked nothing like this weekends track condition, hard to even compare numbers.

[dilanesp]

That track looked nothing like this weekends track condition, hard to even compare numbers.

They didn't seal it in those days

[AskinHaskin]

Why did you have him ranked 7th in your derby poll if you hated him so much?


What kind of drugs are you on??

[Afleet]

What kind of drugs are you on??

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/kentucky-derby-dozen/archive/2018/05/01/derby-dozen-may-1-2018-presented-by-shadwell-farm.aspx

alzheimers?

[GMB@BP]

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/kentucky-derby-dozen/archive/2018/05/01/derby-dozen-may-1-2018-presented-by-shadwell-farm.aspx

alzheimers?

you realize thats not the same person, right?

[Afleet]

you realize thats not the same person, right?

definitely seemed more combative than the author, but isn't that his blog?

[cj]

definitely seemed more combative than the author, but isn't that his blog?

No. He just pirated the name for some reason.

[PaceAdvantage]

What's even better is his complete bafflement as to why I would dare to ask him to change his name...:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Maybe he'll treat us to the reasons why it's completely unnecessary and how dare I be as stupid to think someone would ever consider he might be THE Steve Haskin.

[AskinHaskin]

What's even better is his complete bafflement as to why I would dare to ask him to change his name...:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Maybe he'll treat us to the reasons why it's completely unnecessary and how dare I be as stupid to think someone would ever consider he might be THE Steve Haskin.


ROFL - this from the person who first attempted to state that he " (pondered the chance that it really was )" Haskin, bothering to sign-up at this website...

and yet, despite this feigned excitement, approval to post somehow took an entire week.


I think we all know that someone presenting himself as Steve Haskin, Steve Cauthen, Steve Asmussen or Steve Crist would be put on the fast track toward posting privileges around here. So your own actions long ago underscored your full awareness, despite what you would have anyone believe.

[PaceAdvantage]

ROFL - this from the person who first attempted to state that he " (pondered the chance that it really was )" Haskin, bothering to sign-up at this website...

and yet, despite this feigned excitement, approval to post somehow took an entire week.


I think we all know that someone presenting himself as Steve Haskin, Steve Cauthen, Steve Asmussen or Steve Crist would be put on the fast track toward posting privileges around here. So your own actions long ago underscored your full awareness, despite what you would have anyone believe.First off, I have no idea what you're talking about re: feigned excitement.

Secondly, I specifically ASKED YOU to change your name, knowing full well you weren't him, and your explanation was ridiculous...which is fitting considering your posting history here.

[PowerUpPaynter]

Ok I could not have been more wrong. Mendelssohn was the horse that got off slow and shuffled back and ended up finishing last ...

I am still not sold on Justify yet. He is obviously a better horse than I gave him credit for , but I don’t think he is a slam dunk for the Preakness. That was a DREAM trip he got in the derby ...

sold yet? :lol:

[TheGarMan]

sold yet? :lol:

:D:D:D

Actually, LoneF is home in his basement working under a bare incandescent light bulb into the wee hours of the morning plotting Mendelsohns revenge against Justify in the Breeders Cup Classic.... :lol:

[PowerUpPaynter]

:D:D:D

Actually, LoneF is home in his basement working under a bare incandescent light bulb into the wee hours of the morning plotting Mendelsohns revenge against Justify in the Breeders Cup Classic.... :lol:

yeah he still aint sold