So you want to use raw times in handicapping

[jay68802]

Belmont Race #4

Look at the favorite :3: Take Your Guns, his last race is listed as follows:

March 25 Race 11

:23.30 :46.70 1:10.10 1:37.40 in the Brisnet PP.


Same Race by Trackus:

March 25 Race 11:

:25.03 :47.31 1:11.58 1:39.13

I really do not care who the official timer is, the question is can you believe either one of them?

[mikesal57]

Belmont Race #4

Look at the favorite :3: Take Your Guns, his last race is listed as follows:

March 25 Race 11

:23.30 :46.70 1:10.10 1:37.40 in the Brisnet PP.


Same Race by Trackus:

March 25 Race 11:

:25.03 :47.31 1:11.58 1:39.13

I really do not care who the official timer is, the question is can you believe either one of them?

What is the track variant?

Mike

[jay68802]

These are the raw times, neither company lists adjusted times. All other races on that day match.

[mikesal57]

These are the raw times, neither company lists adjusted times. All other races on that day match.

DAMMM!!!

[headhawg]

It would be interesting to see the pace/speed figures from the different vendors for that race.

[jay68802]

Bris has pace and speed figures of:

E1....E2....LP....SF

78....95....94....94

Do not have any others.

One more thing to point out. All the times are nice even numbers according to Bris in their chart. Is that even possible? I do not believe it is.

[cj]

109 Speed Figure from TimeformUS. I do have the race marked with a 't' in our PPs for timing problems.

Beyer gave the race an 88, which equates to about a 108 on my stuff.

That Beyer figure equates to about a 95 BRIS rating.

[Tom]

I was doing some research yesterday, trying to verify that the distance run changes when the temp rail is moved outside, or if it doesn't.
I was looking 8.5 mile turf races at Belmont with the rail at 0 and at 27 feet.

October 8, race #1 - Trakus times are 2-3 seconds slower than the charts or the PPs!

But the really neat one I came across was the Saranac at Saratoga last year - no internal fractions at all, but....Wait! There's MORE!

BRIS has pace figures for the race!
I think I will just not even bother watching races today - maybe forever.

[Tom]

What is the track variant?

Mike


18 and 38.

[cj]

Trakus is the official timer for Gulfstream, so any official times come from them. They obviously adjusted the time after the fact, but I guess they didn't bother to adjust there charts. The 1:37 time is definitely more in line with reality than the 1:39 time. This rang a bell so I looked it up, thought I remembered tweeting about this race:

https://twitter.com/TimeformUSfigs/status/978370057683329024

[jay68802]

Trakus is the official timer for Gulfstream, so any official times come from them. They obviously adjusted the time after the fact, but I guess they didn't bother to adjust there charts. The 1:37 time is definitely more in line with reality than the 1:39 time. This rang a bell so I looked it up, thought I remembered tweeting about this race:

https://twitter.com/TimeformUSfigs/status/978370057683329024

1:39 is a very slow time for GP at the distance. All the times for Bris are in nice even tenths, which tells me that it is probably just a best guess.

[cj]

Trakus is a goat rope on a lot of fronts.

[jay68802]

Trakus is a goat rope on a lot of fronts.

The reason for the company is to be able to watch the little "chicklets" on the TV, and to provide information to "racing insiders".

[cj]

The reason for the company is to be able to watch the little "chicklets" on the TV, and to provide information to "racing insiders".

They certainly shouldn't be the official timer of anything. It simply isn't accurate even when it works. And they have way more malfunctions than the beam system ever does.

[jay68802]

They certainly shouldn't be the official timer of anything. It simply isn't accurate even when it works. And they have way more malfunctions than the beam system ever does.

I recently went to the U of Nebraska for a tour with my son. They had a segment where the seniors were showing their projects to every one. The most interesting one that I saw was a little 1x1 inch square box. You could carry this around any where with you, and at the end of the day you could plug it in to a computer and it would tell you your average walking speed, or how many steps you took. Whatever you programmed this box to record, it would. I thought this is what they should use. Sync it with the starting gate, and the beams they use for fractions. You would not be able to use it for on screen times, but the times would be recorded and at the end of the day or race you could download the info for each horse. The technology is there for horse racing to use, they just refuse to do it.

[Jeff P]

When you back up from the finish line by the posted final time, the horses are still inside the closed gate.

Imo, that's just embarrassing.

Some small part of me wants to believe somebody in the industry --

Track management at NYRA, The Stronach Group, CDI, Keeneland, or Woodbine...

Leadership at one of the many horsemen's alphabet groups...

Racing commissioners...

Stewards, etc...

The Jockey Club/Equibase...

Some small part of me wants to believe somebody in the industry CARES ENOUGH ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF TIMING THE RACES to take corrective action.

What the hell is wrong with me?


-jp

.

[jay68802]

Imo, that's just embarrassing.

Some small part of me wants to believe somebody in the industry --

Track management at NYRA, The Stronach Group, CDI, Keeneland, or Woodbine...

Leadership at one of the many horsemen's alphabet groups...

Racing commissioners...

Stewards, etc...

The Jockey Club/Equibase...

Some small part of me wants to believe somebody in the industry CARES ENOUGH ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF TIMING THE RACES to take corrective action.

What the hell is wrong with me?


-jp

.

Nothing.

[Tom]

Jeff, NO NOE in racings gives a rat's ass about the customers.
I bet you could not ind three people who even know who the customers are.That is three people from ALL the tracks out there.

[AltonKelsey]

It should be against FEDERAL law to supply information to the betting public that is inaccurate and misleading.

If a company reports fake earnings, people go to jail .

[lamboguy]

this thread boils down to simplicity: IF YOU CAN'T TRUST THE TIMER, HOW CAN YOU TRUST THE TIME?

this is nothing new either, i remember years ago people going to dog tracks timing their own schooling races and live ones as well with stop watches.

[Denny]

I do like the chiclets. Wish everyone had it, just for that.

[cj]

I do like the chiclets. Wish everyone had it, just for that.

They charge a pretty steep price for that. There are better alternatives out there. Believe GG is using a newer one now.

[jk3521]

Jeff, NO NOE in racings gives a rat's ass about the customers.
I bet you could not ind three people who even know who the customers are.That is three people from ALL the tracks out there.

I believe that nobody in racing is trying do anything to save the industry. They don't care that it is dying. They are just going to continue to milk it until it just withers away. You know, right now I don't give a crap either ! :rant:

[dlivery]

I recently went to the U of Nebraska for a tour with my son. They had a segment where the seniors were showing their projects to every one. The most interesting one that I saw was a little 1x1 inch square box. You could carry this around any where with you, and at the end of the day you could plug it in to a computer and it would tell you your average walking speed, or how many steps you took. Whatever you programmed this box to record, it would. I thought this is what they should use. Sync it with the starting gate, and the beams they use for fractions. You would not be able to use it for on screen times, but the times would be recorded and at the end of the day or race you could download the info for each horse. The technology is there for horse racing to use, they just refuse to do it.

I did 13 steps from the chair.
The only time I stepped was for a beverage:lol:

[Tom]

I believe that nobody in racing is trying do anything to save the industry. They don't care that it is dying. They are just going to continue to milk it until it just withers away. You know, right now I don't give a crap either ! :rant:

Today was my best day in a long time - hit the 6~!
That and a Gunsmoke marathon.....didn't miss the races a bit.

[dansan]

You didnt much to many favorites today

[FakeNameChanged]

This week I watched a couple of races from Chile & Brazil, via Laurel's feed. It appears that they time digitally in hundredths from the gate? It just made a lot of sense. Not that I can pick any more winners south of the Border.

[cj]

This week I watched a couple of races from Chile & Brazil, via Laurel's feed. It appears that they time digitally in hundredths from the gate? It just made a lot of sense. Not that I can pick any more winners south of the Border.

Those countries are a lot more technically advanced than we are, obviously.

[Tom]

Sadly, we have the technology but not the desire to obtain it.
So next time ANY track tells you there are Major League or the "best racing" out there, laugh in their faces. NO USA track is major league.

Except maybe in the minor league minds of their management.