Newbies next question.

[Jaecubed]

Hi All,

My first post/question gave me some very good advice and I thought I would go back to the well for another one. I kind of think I know what the overall answer to this question is going to be but I thought I would ask it and see if there is any advantages.

My question is this:

What is your thought on listening to "track experts" thoughts/picks on the days card? I'm practicing/playing Aqueducts and before each days races they have a 30+/- min. show with their thoughts, replays & picks on the days races. As a beginner I find this educational but is this something I should shy away from at some point? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "experts opinions" and what I should or shouldn't take away from them.

Again thanks in advance for any input on this.

[AstrosFan]

Hi All,

My first post/question gave me some very good advice and I thought I would go back to the well for another one. I kind of think I know what the overall answer to this question is going to be but I thought I would ask it and see if there is any advantages.

My question is this:

What is your thought on listening to "track experts" thoughts/picks on the days card? I'm practicing/playing Aqueducts and before each days races they have a 30+/- min. show with their thoughts, replays & picks on the days races. As a beginner I find this educational but is this something I should shy away from at some point? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "experts opinions" and what I should or shouldn't take away from them.

Again thanks in advance for any input on this.

If I had to pick one, I would go with the Woodbine crew. They have a stellar show from top to bottom and fantastic handicappers.

NYRA's Andy Serling is the biggest joke that racing has on today's public stage based on his on-air arrogance, twitter rants (sounds familiar with a certain someone who lives in a white house in DC) and his overall "I know it all and you don't" attitude. Why he is still getting work, including NBC while Jason Blewitt got the ax at NYRA I will never know.

With that being said, I don't care for most that are on there, especially anything TVG vomits out.

The best handicappers aren't in front of a camera IMO

This web board TOWERS over what you'll see on most TV broadcasts and you'll get better info from this group, than what you will get via an overpaid TV star that probably gives a quarter of the handicapping effort of what these guys on P.A. will tell you.

[GMB@BP]

Hi All,

My first post/question gave me some very good advice and I thought I would go back to the well for another one. I kind of think I know what the overall answer to this question is going to be but I thought I would ask it and see if there is any advantages.

My question is this:

What is your thought on listening to "track experts" thoughts/picks on the days card? I'm practicing/playing Aqueducts and before each days races they have a 30+/- min. show with their thoughts, replays & picks on the days races. As a beginner I find this educational but is this something I should shy away from at some point? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "experts opinions" and what I should or shouldn't take away from them.

Again thanks in advance for any input on this.

If you listen to Andy Serling, not for his picks, but for his breakdown of previous pp/horse efforts you will learn much quicker, his race analysis is on par with the best handicappers.

(let not turn this into an Andy thread)

[Andy Asaro]

You should learn the basics like I wrote in the previous thread. That's how I learned in the late 70's. We only had one daily double and one or two exactas and that was it. You have to learn to isolate winners and not get caught in the math trap of using 5 horses in each leg of a P5.

Industry has to come up with one way to get new people involved and in order to that the Industry has to make it simple.

[AstrosFan]

If you listen to Andy Serling, not for his picks, but for his breakdown of previous pp/horse efforts you will learn much quicker, his race analysis is on par with the best handicappers.

(let not turn this into an Andy thread)

Now that part I will agree with

[thaskalos]

Hi All,

My first post/question gave me some very good advice and I thought I would go back to the well for another one. I kind of think I know what the overall answer to this question is going to be but I thought I would ask it and see if there is any advantages.

My question is this:

What is your thought on listening to "track experts" thoughts/picks on the days card? I'm practicing/playing Aqueducts and before each days races they have a 30+/- min. show with their thoughts, replays & picks on the days races. As a beginner I find this educational but is this something I should shy away from at some point? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "experts opinions" and what I should or shouldn't take away from them.

Again thanks in advance for any input on this.

There are "track experts" everywhere in this game...on the TV screens AND among the crowd. They may on occasion reveal to you a handicapping nugget or two that you might have missed on your own...but the majority of the time their handicapping opinions will conflict with your own, and that will create more confusion for you than you should tolerate in this game. I always shake my head in disbelief when I see grown men betting hard-earned money on the opinions of others.

Develop an opinion that you can trust more than anyone else's...or you've got no shot in this game.

[Immortal6]

As I said in your previous thread, strive to never blind bet a race. I see no harm in getting another's view point of a race, but before you place a wager, handicap the race yourself. You'll discover many folks are blowing a lot of smoke and that others view points may mesh with your own.

[Track Phantom]

My opinion is going to be slightly slanted and bias because I create analysis sheets that others infuse into their own handicapping. The difference with what I do, in my opinion, is I look to augment opinions, not replace them. My goal is to add non-obvious information to my thoughts in the hopes that there is enough meat in what I dig up that it can help someone else who has already done the homework.

I get a good deal of people that thank me for this or that, and I laugh because they make money on my opinions (and think I must have for sure) and more often than not, I don't.

What I'd say is this, "listen" don't "look". When others are talking about a race, and especially if it is someone who's opinion you trust, listen to the "why" and not the "what". Us handicappers don't create the data points, we find them. Nothing shameful about stealing someone else's homework in this game. It is up to you to weigh the data and make a decision. Never make that decision without your own handicapping involvement.

[PaceAdvantage]

NYRA's Andy Serling is the biggest joke that racing has on today's public stage based on his on-air arrogance, twitter rants (sounds familiar with a certain someone who lives in a white house in DC) and his overall "I know it all and you don't" attitude. Why he is still getting work, including NBC while Jason Blewitt got the ax at NYRA I will never know.You're out of your mind. Either that, or you're nothing but a retread of a previously banned grade 1 asshole.

Whether or not he suits your tastes personality-wise, any serious handicapper who's not a troll realizes there isn't a better analyst working in the industry today than Andy Serling.

And as for twitter rants, if you actually followed him, you'd know that's a complete lie.

Stay far away from here in the future if this is the crap you're going to pull.

[PointGiven]

For me it's what was mentioned above about listening to on air people.
Listen to what they say, but decide its weight for yourself. There can be bits of information from someone who is there everyday and knows all the players.

I didn't respond in the other thread but will but this here. One of the best things that has helped me is at some point learning to handicap me.

What am I constantly doing wrong/ right. Do I have proper time management. Bankroll management. Am I wasting those resources in unproductive areas. We have tendencies just like horses.

Ticket construction was a big problem for me. Things like that.

I know you starting out, and learning. Just make it a habit to review what you are doing from time to time.

[Prioress Ply]

You're out of your mind. Either that, or you're nothing but a retread of a previously banned grade 1 asshole.

Whether or not he suits your tastes personality-wise, any serious handicapper who's not a troll realizes there isn't a better analyst working in the industry today than Andy Serling.

And as for twitter rants, if you actually followed him, you'd know that's a complete lie.

Stay far away from here in the future if this is the crap you're going to pull.

"I welcome opposing points of view."

[Seabiscuit@AR]

When I first started out playing this game I noted down all the tips from the most hyped up tipsters in the racing media (mostly radio in those days). I then tracked on paper how their tips did if you had placed money on them. In my case I found after a few weeks or months that their results were terrible in ROI terms and no better than picking your horses with a pin. I have never paid any attention to public tipsters since

So my advice is note their tips and track them yourself. You will learn quickly if their tips have any value or not

[biggestal99]

Hi All,

My first post/question gave me some very good advice and I thought I would go back to the well for another one. I kind of think I know what the overall answer to this question is going to be but I thought I would ask it and see if there is any advantages.

My question is this:

What is your thought on listening to "track experts" thoughts/picks on the days card? I'm practicing/playing Aqueducts and before each days races they have a 30+/- min. show with their thoughts, replays & picks on the days races. As a beginner I find this educational but is this something I should shy away from at some point? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "experts opinions" and what I should or shouldn't take away from them.

Again thanks in advance for any input on this.

Here,s my piece of advice. Everyone on tv is not an expert handicapper.

There are some worthy of a listen, some just fluff, some downright terrible.

Some of the best experts are not in the us but overseas. They know their stuff backwards and forwards.

Allan

[Jaecubed]

Thanks all!

This is what I kind of figured but I wanted to validate it with the masses. One thing everyone seems to agree on is not to blindly bet on a race off of someone else. I can see you learn absolutely nothing doing this. At least if I "handicap" (I use that term loosely as a beginner) my own race and lose I can at least go back and look for things. What did I miss... what did I misunderstand... what might I look for next time. Seems you can learn a lot from losing on your own and you learn nothing losing from someone else's picks.

Sorry for stirring the pot with the Andy Serling topic, sounds like this isn't the first time there have been debates on him. I actually find him and the show entertaining. To each his own tho.

As always thanks for taking the time to give your advice.

[TheGarMan]

My two cents for what it is worth.

Invest the time in your own picks. No one else's picks or info will be as satisfying as yours. Build confidence in your system, and you will be miles ahead of listening to any talking head.

That said, there are two guys on television that I would listen to in a pinch.

1) Eddie Olczyk on the NBC broadcasts is a good guy.

2) Simon Bray on TVG seems to know the So Cal horses (but don't get caught up in all the other BS that the TVG team seems to toss around)

There are also a few good guys floating around on Twitter.

Late Edit: I would be remiss for not saying that some of my more enjoyable picks have come right here at PA, during "big days" of racing we have fun with semi "live threads" and the guys here are first rate. (PA picking Take Charge Brandi comes to mind) :headbanger:

Good luck!

[Jaecubed]

Late Edit: I would be remiss for not saying that some of my more enjoyable picks have come right here at PA, during "big days" of racing we have fun with semi "live threads" and the guys here are first rate. (PA picking Take Charge Brandi comes to mind) :headbanger:Good luck!

This sounds interesting... this is the kind of thing I miss about the good old days of poker and the poker forum... comradely and having fun with like minded people. I'm hopeful I might actually be able to meet up with some of the PA people at Saratoga this year. Maybe see how things are done. I know I'm new but maybe by then I'll have made a friend or two. Worst case I can bribe someone with a beer or two. :D

[jk3521]

There have been times when I was so hopped up on playing a certain longshot that I overlooked something in the PP's. Listening to the track handicappers can bring you back to earth on the real chances of your horse scoring.
(It's when those guys pick a longshot, that I don't listen.):D

[Tom]

Andy Serling is a treasure to this game.
You will learn a lot about raing that you will never find in the PPs. Pay attention to his comments.

And go to NYRA.com and look under racing, then Resources, then Track Trends to get his track bias reports that go back over a year and cover all the NYRA tracks.

https://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/racing/track-trends

Listen to Steve Byks's radio program - you will get a lot of general information from trainers and jockeys and handicappers that will give your foundation a boost.

Go to Horseplayernow for a beginners's guide for a lot of basics:

http://www.horseplayernow.com/uploads/6/9/9/3/69937291/beginner.pdf

Go to night school here - several years of archived classes - pick the topics that you are interested in and listen in.

http://www.horseplayernow.com/archives.html

They also have weekly sessions where they handicap a track live using FREE BRIS PPs. Follow along, not so much to bet other tracks, but to get a look at the thought processes used by other. Jeremy Plonk is a good capper. You can learn stuff just enjoying a night at the track!

[jay68802]

If you like the show, watch it, grab your form and go through the races with them. Where and how you learn is up to you. There are going to be some races where you say, I see what they are saying. There are going to be some races where you say, are we looking at the same race? I learned from a guy named J.P. Miller. No one on this forum, unless you happen to be in Nebraska in the early 80's, will know who he is. One thing that I think everybody will agree on is you will never stop learning about this game.

[PaceAdvantage]

"I welcome opposing points of view."Then I need to revise the TOS to add "but I don't welcome assholes."

[jay68802]

Then I need to revise the TOS to add "but I don't welcome assholes."

But I tolerate them in a New York way.

[castaway01]

This sounds interesting... this is the kind of thing I miss about the good old days of poker and the poker forum... comradely and having fun with like minded people. I'm hopeful I might actually be able to meet up with some of the PA people at Saratoga this year. Maybe see how things are done. I know I'm new but maybe by then I'll have made a friend or two. Worst case I can bribe someone with a beer or two. :D

Right, and that's the good thing about listening to track analysts like Andy Serling and others who know what they're talking about---it makes the game more fun, especially when you're learning. In the long run, sure you want to handicap on your own and come up with strong opinions, but when you're learning it never hurts to hear someone else's ideas. They might have considered things from an angle that you didn't. In the "old days" we did this on track with a bunch of guys; now a lot of it is done on great sites like this one. Those discussions and analysis are part of the fun and what makes horse racing interesting.

[PaceAdvantage]

But I tolerate them in a New York way.You guys are good. :headbanger:

[deathandgravity]

The first book I read on Thoroughbred racing is the one I still consider the best: Ainslie's Complete Guide to Thoroughbred Racing.

Yep, it's old & a little outdated, but it helped me cut-my-teeth @ Turf Paradise in it's 1980's glamour years. (that was a joke)


https://www.amazon.com/Ainslies-Complete-Guide-Thoroughbred-Racing/dp/0671656554

[GMB@BP]

The first book I read on Thoroughbred racing is the one I still consider the best: Ainslie's Complete Guide to Thoroughbred Racing.

Yep, it's old & a little outdated, but it helped me cut-my-teeth @ Turf Paradise in it's 1980's glamour years. (that was a joke)


https://www.amazon.com/Ainslies-Complete-Guide-Thoroughbred-Racing/dp/0671656554

Me too, lol

[Robert Fischer]

Hi All,

My first post/question gave me some very good advice and I thought I would go back to the well for another one. I kind of think I know what the overall answer to this question is going to be but I thought I would ask it and see if there is any advantages.

My question is this:

What is your thought on listening to "track experts" thoughts/picks on the days card? I'm practicing/playing Aqueducts and before each days races they have a 30+/- min. show with their thoughts, replays & picks on the days races. As a beginner I find this educational but is this something I should shy away from at some point? I'd like to hear your thoughts on the "experts opinions" and what I should or shouldn't take away from them.

Again thanks in advance for any input on this.

Think of yourself as an attorney. Ideally, a good one is going to know the case so well that you could be prosecution or defense. You've employed critical thinking, and know both sides of the story.

Watching a track expert, it's like getting a chance to see how another top attorney would try the case.

They may shed light on some insights that you hadn't noticed. Maybe you disagree with them.

Realistically, there are also times when you are considering a wager because of one angle on one horse, and you may not know that specific local circuit as well as a specialist. They can help fill in the blanks, and sometimes they give you a feel beyond the morning line, of how the public views the race.