Man, this is bad

[cj]

https://twitter.com/BH_JBalan/status/983124820605861890

[PaceAdvantage]

Hah! And I thought I had the rant of the day.

[Denny]

These Jackpots are going to be the death of racing one day (if the drugging and cheating doesn't kill it first - or the horse fatalities).

Just one more Fix on a Pick6 Jackpot could do it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey, for those who pay no attention to these jackpot wagers (like me), what's the bottom line on all of this? The person who thought he won $700,000+ didn't actually win?

[GMB@BP]

Hey, for those who pay no attention to these jackpot wagers (like me), what's the bottom line on all of this? The person who thought he won $700,000+ didn't actually win?

I didnt think anyone hit anything, it was a 25/1 shot who won the last....I am confused.

[PaceAdvantage]

I didnt think anyone hit anything, it was a 25/1 shot who won the last....I am confused.I watched the race live.

The 25/1 shot was the only live single ticket, according to track announcer Michael Wrona. He called it down the stretch...and he announced the payout after the race was official. Something like $750,000...

So, since cj entitled the thread "Man, this is bad" I'm assuming the person who thought they won, actually didn't.

Hope they cashed that ticket quickly...

[Denny]

PA, That would look pretty bad.
___

Not for nothing, but I've been concerned with what could happen with these Jackpots.

The money involved is so much that it could provide incentive for a trainer with multiple horses in the sequence to control the outcome. Stiffing the ones that figure, and putting over another one or two that shows nothing in the pp's.

A couple of trainers could even work together on something. It's called collusion, and it does happen.

I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist.

BUT, this is horseracing that were talking about. What sport has a worse reputation than this one? With plenty of real examples of cheating having happened before.

Remember when Boxing was popular.
___

The winner did win. There was just another live horse that wasn't mentioned by the track before the race. At least that's the way I'm reading it.

Still it would have looked really bad.

Goodnight all.

[iamt]

I read it as thought the winner was unaffected. The issue was another horse would also have scooped the jackpot, which would have been quite a surprise post-race to everyone watching.

[cj]

Hey, for those who pay no attention to these jackpot wagers (like me), what's the bottom line on all of this? The person who thought he won $700,000+ didn't actually win?

That is what I thought originally, but in this case, no. It could have been that bad. There were actually two horses that would have swept the jackpot, not the one that was displayed. It could have just as easily been a second ticket on the same horse making it not a jackpot winner if I'm understanding this right.

The one that was displayed happened to win.

[PaceAdvantage]

Makes sense...

Nice glitch though. Wonder what other "glitches" are out there.

[PaceAdvantage]

With the way these tote systems operate, you would have figured Y2K would have ended racing 18 years ago...

[cj]

Makes sense...

Nice glitch though. Wonder what other "glitches" are out there.

Exactly. The tech is so outdated there is no real way to have any faith in it. It is all piece-worked together to try to make it function with the modern game.

[TiffaniO]

I read it as thought the winner was unaffected. The issue was another horse would also have scooped the jackpot, which would have been quite a surprise post-race to everyone watching.

Correct!

[Parkview_Pirate]

These Jackpots are going to be the death of racing one day (if the drugging and cheating doesn't kill it first - or the horse fatalities).

Just one more Fix on a Pick6 Jackpot could do it.

Well, if the Breeder's Cup pick 6 "Drexel" scandal back in 2002 didn't kill the exotic bets, I think that the jackpot pools have some wriggle room. It was only a couple of years ago there was an uproar over the jackpot pick 6 at Louisiana Downs that ended up NOT being a jackpot, because the post time favorite resulted in a second winning ticket from a late scratch. And did that adversely affect the jackpot style wagers? Ummm, no.

Look at the carryovers across the country on a typical day of racing. Jackpots lead the way, and appear to my untrained eye to be gaining in popularity.

I agree that that drugs and cheating are big problems, if not bigger problems, and I would submit the jackpot style pools are a desperate attempt by the parasite to maintain life while the host is dying.

BUT - there is a minimum number of players that will continue to play the horses, short of the Sun going supernova, no matter what.

And as George C. Scott said so eloquently in the movie "Patton", and as paraphrased by Andy Beyer, "God Help Me, but I love it so...."

[HorsemenHeist]

I saw the willpay on the pick 6 on DRF bets to that 7 showing $603k prior to the race. Obviously that would be a single ticket jackpot payout.

The 7 wasn't listed as a carryover horse tho, so I'm not sure how SA glitched on this one. I'm guessing the TV monitors merely did not post that jackpot label next to the number because of that difference in exchange rate.

[upthecreek]

I didnt think anyone hit anything, it was a 25/1 shot who won the last....I am confused.
Jackpot paid out to 1 ticket, $730,315 I was watching live, Wrona referenced it in his call

[JerryBoyle]

Wait, so did something go wrong here, and is this related to the other thread about Sunday's P6. Read the OP to mean that someone thought he was getting the whole jackpot and it was actually split. But the other thread makes it seem that it was hit for the whole pot

[PaceAdvantage]

I believe the only thing that happened was that at the time, everyone thought there was only one horse alive to the single winning ticket jackpot (the horse that actually won at 22/1).

The truth was that there were two horses alive to that jackpot.

[JerryBoyle]

I believe the only thing that happened was that at the time, everyone thought there was only one horse alive to the single winning ticket jackpot (the horse that actually won at 22/1).

The truth was that there were two horses alive to that jackpot.

Interesting. So really this is a win for industry transparency but furthers the idea that, my god, the technology used is awful

[Denny]

PP,
How do we know that someone with computer access isn't Fixing Sixes?

Just doing it more cleverly so as not to get caught like the Catskill idjit. He made it obvious with his all-singles leading up to the last part of the sequence.

Someone good could past post a ticket that includes more losers along the way - on purpose - so as not to get caught.

I'd do it if i knew i'd get away with it.

Jackpots are too tempting for someone not to.

Remember what I posted once before. The computer room has the highest security access at the track. But, SOMEONE has access to the computer system.

[It doesn't even have to be a jackpot. There was a single winning ticket on a big Pick 5 last year at Saratoga. it was a high 6 digit payoff. that would very tempting to someone with access]

[cj]

Interesting. So really this is a win for industry transparency but furthers the idea that, my god, the technology used is awful

The technology is awful. You should read Mike Maloney's book if you haven't already. The next to last chapter deals with a bunch of this stuff.

[Denny]

Then there's the old-fashioned way.

Fixing individual races in the sequence by trainers with multiple horses entered and covering enough combinations in other races.

Who's going to stop that?

[PaceAdvantage]

PP,
How do we know that someone with computer access isn't Fixing Sixes?

Just doing it more cleverly so as not to get caught like the Catskill idjit. He made it obvious with his all-singles leading up to the last part of the sequence.

Someone good could past post a ticket that includes more losers along the way - on purpose - so as not to get caught.

I'd do it if i knew i'd get away with it.

Jackpots are too tempting for someone not to.

Remember what I posted once before. The computer room has the highest security access at the track. But, SOMEONE has access to the computer system.

[It doesn't even have to be a jackpot. There was a single winning ticket on a big Pick 5 last year at Saratoga. it was a high 6 digit payoff. that would very tempting to someone with access]If you're one of the few winning players in this world, and you play via ADW, what's to stop someone at the ADW from piggybacking on your bets? What's to stop some programmer from creating a script to automatically duplicate your bets for his own account?

An ADW can find out in two seconds who all their long term winning players are...

You could go on and on with scenarios where someone or something is ripping you off at the track, and EVERYWHERE ELSE in this world.

[jay68802]

I watched the race live.

The 25/1 shot was the only live single ticket, according to track announcer Michael Wrona. He called it down the stretch...and he announced the payout after the race was official. Something like $750,000...

So, since cj entitled the thread "Man, this is bad" I'm assuming the person who thought they won, actually didn't.

Hope they cashed that ticket quickly...

I believe the only thing that happened was that at the time, everyone thought there was only one horse alive to the single winning ticket jackpot (the horse that actually won at 22/1).

The truth was that there were two horses alive to that jackpot.

Oh, crap, the odds are even dropping in this thread.:D

[JerryBoyle]

If you're one of the few winning players in this world, and you play via ADW, what's to stop someone at the ADW from piggybacking on your bets? What's to stop some programmer from creating a script to automatically duplicate your bets for his own account?

An ADW can find out in two seconds who all their long term winning players are...

You could go on and on with scenarios where someone or something is ripping you off at the track, and EVERYWHERE ELSE in this world.

This is one of of my biggest, if not the biggest, fear I have with betting.

Though hopefully, whoever they're mimicking would be betting their runners to the point that any further betting results in negative edge.

[burnsy]

Look at the carryovers across the country on a typical day of racing. Jackpots lead the way, and appear to my untrained eye to be gaining in popularity.

I agree that that drugs and cheating are big problems, if not bigger problems, and I would submit the jackpot style pools are a desperate attempt by the parasite to maintain life while the host is dying.

BUT - there is a minimum number of players that will continue to play the horses, short of the Sun going supernova, no matter what.


So true, they push those things to the moon and back. When I rarely watch TVG that's all they do......pick sequences. The guy on Capital OTB picks 6 out of 8 horses for a leg......and the 7th one usually wins. These guys have trouble picking one! Let alone, 3, 4, 5 or 6!

If you don't watch the track prattle shows its about 75% pick talk. Not that I'm against it, they are the biggest scores. But its clear the industry is pushing these bets to stay afloat. That's fine too, but at least have the technology to back these bets. Things like this should not happen and if one group got caught rigging it...........it does not take a giant leap to believe others have pulled it off. The guys that got caught were greedy and not very bright and they even got away with it a couple times before they got popped.

Just the fact that things like this get through shows that all they really care about is counting the money......the host is damn near dead.......probably on life support.

[castaway01]

PP,
How do we know that someone with computer access isn't Fixing Sixes?

Just doing it more cleverly so as not to get caught like the Catskill idjit. He made it obvious with his all-singles leading up to the last part of the sequence.

Someone good could past post a ticket that includes more losers along the way - on purpose - so as not to get caught.

I'd do it if i knew i'd get away with it.

Jackpots are too tempting for someone not to.

Remember what I posted once before. The computer room has the highest security access at the track. But, SOMEONE has access to the computer system.

[It doesn't even have to be a jackpot. There was a single winning ticket on a big Pick 5 last year at Saratoga. it was a high 6 digit payoff. that would very tempting to someone with access]

Because you can't control what everyone else is betting. With the Fix 6, they put in a ticket that could not lose and got caught because a huge longshot blew up the prices. With jackpot bets you have to be the only one with the ticket---you can put in all the crazy tickets you want but you can't control what every other bettor in the country does. In other words, not an ideal situation to run a scam.

[Tom]

This is exactly why I am advocating Federal regulation of racing.

Racing is advertising a price for a product that that will not be determined until well after the race is won. It is no different than a store advertising $100 freezers until you get inside and they are "out" of them.

Had it ended up not being a jackpot race after Wrona stupidly gloated about it in his call, I would say ehe guy would have a damn good law suit against SA for this.

Tracks need to get their shit together, and tell their announces to keep their mouths shut about thing they really know nothing about.

Just another example of the incompetence of the game to run itself.

Did they ever hear of risk analysis?