The Brooklyn Cowboy banned me. Was I wrong?

[whisperlunch]

This Kevin Cox handicapper for mainly NYRA is awesome. I think he’s fantastic at handicaping. I’m being serious. I follow him on twitter and he’s pretty active on all topics even political opinions which is fine because I agree with him. However, he is also active in fundraising for what seems like many causes. It gets old but he’s so good at capping. Any way the tragic death of a top jockey last week Jose Flores at penn started him tweeting away for donations for a go fund me page. Also Paulick was promoting people to donate. I simply questioned why does a jockeys family who won 4500 races with 30,000 mounts and 60 million in purses won ,need money? I get that this is not a popular topic or is it popular to question a go fund me page but come on this just seems ridiculous to me that we need to donate money to everything. So I called him out and he got pissed and blocked me. Was I out of line?
What’s next a go fund me page for johnny v?
This topic will prolly get me banned here.

Anyway I apologize ahead of time
Let’s see if we can have a civil discussion on if what I did was so awful???

[cj]

This Kevin Cox handicapper for mainly NYRA is awesome. I think he’s fantastic at handicaping. I’m being serious. I follow him on twitter and he’s pretty active on all topics even political opinions which is fine because I agree with him. However, he is also active in fundraising for what seems like many causes. It gets old but he’s so good at capping. Any way the tragic death of a top jockey last week Jose Flores at penn started him tweeting away for donations for a go fund me page. Also Paulick was promoting people to donate. I simply questioned why does a jockeys family who won 4500 races with 30,000 mounts and 60 million in purses won ,need money? I get that this is not a popular topic or is it popular to question a go fund me page but come on this just seems ridiculous to me that we need to donate money to everything. So I called him out and he got pissed and blocked me. Was I out of line?
What’s next a go fund me page for johnny v?
This topic will prolly get me banned here.

Anyway I apologize ahead of time
Let’s see if we can have a civil discussion on if what I did was so awful???

My opinion, it is just best to stay out of stuff like that. If people want to donate, good for them. If you choose not to donate, nothing wrong with that either. But arguing about whether a guy that just died tragically left his family in need of donations is never going to be a good look.

[baconswitchfarm]

This Kevin Cox handicapper for mainly NYRA is awesome. I think he’s fantastic at handicaping. I’m being serious. I follow him on twitter and he’s pretty active on all topics even political opinions which is fine because I agree with him. However, he is also active in fundraising for what seems like many causes. It gets old but he’s so good at capping. Any way the tragic death of a top jockey last week Jose Flores at penn started him tweeting away for donations for a go fund me page. Also Paulick was promoting people to donate. I simply questioned why does a jockeys family who won 4500 races with 30,000 mounts and 60 million in purses won ,need money? I get that this is not a popular topic or is it popular to question a go fund me page but come on this just seems ridiculous to me that we need to donate money to everything. So I called him out and he got pissed and blocked me. Was I out of line?
What’s next a go fund me page for johnny v?
This topic will prolly get me banned here.

Anyway I apologize ahead of time
Let’s see if we can have a civil discussion on if what I did was so awful???


I couldn't agree more. In the circles I travel in , I have been ask many times lately to contribute to people who have just went through some difficulty. Many of these people are far better off financially than the people being asked to contribute. It seems the norm now.

[Andy Asaro]

The donation thing can go too far. As far as B.C. I follow him and think he's a good guy. He leans conservative politically which causes some not to like him although I think he's on the right side of many issues.

I donate to people first but I understand those that donate to aftercare and other causes. But, when it comes to aftercare I do sometimes retweet or like some aftercare causes. Additionally I have been for an ADW keep the change option distributed equally between backstretch workers, permanently disabled jockeys and aftercare.

[PaceAdvantage]

I simply questioned why does a jockeys family who won 4500 races with 30,000 mounts and 60 million in purses won ,need money?

Who's to say what financial condition the family is in? OK, so he won $60,000,000 in purses. What's he get? 10%? Maybe more in some cases? How much does he have to pay his agent?

Over how many years was he riding? A whole lot, right?

You start breaking it down like that...and maybe it's not as much money as you thought.

Plus people who have made way more than that haven't exactly been financial geniuses. Look at Mike Tyson. Not saying this family is broke, but just saying, you have no idea whether or not they actually NEED the money.

I would have erred on the side of keeping my mouth shut, especially given the circumstances.

It's his twitter account...he can block anyone he chooses...

[Tom]

You are worried about what you did but question a family who just lost their Father as their financial status?

We are past civil.

[Racetrack Playa]

Cowboy got this one right, a man just died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mj6B4DtNyM

[Mulerider]

I could be wrong, but I don't think Cox was fundraising directly for Mr. Flores's family. From what I saw on Twitter, he was suggesting that people donate to the Permanently Disabled Jockeys Fund in memory of Mr. Flores.

[Robert Fischer]

ultimately it's his forum , his rules

this charity bs has gotten out of hand, and ingrained in our culture.

it's reached the point that there is social pressure against questioning or objecting to solicitation. It's politically incorrect to call bs. It's an exploitation of our social contract as society. Lot's of non-profit businessmen who don't have to worry about meeting their basic needs or wait for needed health care while their credit gets obliterated, not to mention hard work.

there is a place and a market for solicitation, and it is socially accepted, probably go so far as to say socially protected. It's here to stay.

[whisperlunch]

I appreciate the replies. I was was out of line to criticize him. I’ve felt bad afterwards. I definitely made him mad.

[jay68802]

Some times it is just better not to say a word. Like the night I got home late, after drinking, the wife was on the front porch with her hands on her hips and a unpleasant look on her face. I shut up, nodded my head, and never said another word about that night.

[PointGiven]

:pout:My opinion, it is just best to stay out of stuff like that. If people want to donate, good for them. If you choose not to donate, nothing wrong with that either. But arguing about whether a guy that just died tragically left his family in need of donations is never going to be a good look.

This.

[thaskalos]

My opinion, it is just best to stay out of stuff like that. If people want to donate, good for them. If you choose not to donate, nothing wrong with that either. But arguing about whether a guy that just died tragically left his family in need of donations is never going to be a good look.

This says it all...without me needing to add a thing. :ThmbUp:

[Dave Schwartz]

I appreciate the replies. I was was out of line to criticize him. I’ve felt bad afterwards. I definitely made him mad.

Nice.

A guy who admits when he is wrong.

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[Inner Dirt]

My opinion, it is just best to stay out of stuff like that. If people want to donate, good for them. If you choose not to donate, nothing wrong with that either. But arguing about whether a guy that just died tragically left his family in need of donations is never going to be a good look.

Agreed, well said.

[Afleet]

ultimately it's his forum , his rules

this charity bs has gotten out of hand, and ingrained in our culture.

it's reached the point that there is social pressure against questioning or objecting to solicitation. It's politically incorrect to call bs. It's an exploitation of our social contract as society. Lot's of non-profit businessmen who don't have to worry about meeting their basic needs or wait for needed health care while their credit gets obliterated, not to mention hard work.

there is a place and a market for solicitation, and it is socially accepted, probably go so far as to say socially protected. It's here to stay.

I agree. Everywhere you go you are hit up for money: people hanging out on street corners at busy intersections holding their signs, always see beggars in front of the old churches in Europe (I always give them money). Off topic, but anyone who wants a job in the US can get one.

I donated money to Jose Flores.

[judd]

This Kevin Cox handicapper for mainly NYRA is awesome. I think he’s fantastic at handicaping. I’m being serious. I follow him on twitter and he’s pretty active on all topics even political opinions which is fine because I agree with him. However, he is also active in fundraising for what seems like many causes. It gets old but he’s so good at capping. Any way the tragic death of a top jockey last week Jose Flores at penn started him tweeting away for donations for a go fund me page. Also Paulick was promoting people to donate. I simply questioned why does a jockeys family who won 4500 races with 30,000 mounts and 60 million in purses won ,need money? I get that this is not a popular topic or is it popular to question a go fund me page but come on this just seems ridiculous to me that we need to donate money to everything. So I called him out and he got pissed and blocked me. Was I out of line?
What’s next a go fund me page for johnny v?
This topic will prolly get me banned here.

Anyway I apologize ahead of time
Let’s see if we can have a civil discussion on if what I did was so awful???

you might have gotten blocked cause of your photo

[proximity]

first off this is a horrible thing to happen to any jockey, let alone jose, who i always found to be a pretty nice guy. if nothing else, he always had eye contact and a nod of the head for the horseplayer on return trips to Grantville.

so if you want to donate something i wouldn't say it's the worst cause although i agree that financially he should have been well ahead of the average railbird haunting your local track, otb, and (ahem) pace handicapping website.

now whisperlunch? were you out of line?

i would say yes.

did your punishment fit your crime?

probably not because if this Brooklyn cowboy guy is as good of a handicapper as you say then he should have predicted this from a segment of society that (outside of the james bond types here on paceadvantage) isn't the most socially savvy to begin with.

at least you're able to acknowledge that maybe you made a mistake and with or without the Brooklyn cowboy as a "friend" that probably bodes well for you moving forward in life.

good luck!!

[burnsy]

Some times it is just better not to say a word. Like the night I got home late, after drinking, the wife was on the front porch with her hands on her hips and a unpleasant look on her face. I shut up, nodded my head, and never said another word about that night.

Exactly. Plus, after a tragedy like this just leave condolences and respect. One doesn't have to express a political or economic opinion, just opening the door to crap like this. Don't wanna donate, just shut up and move on. These are the reasons to stay off Twitter and Facebook, it gets bad enough around here, especially in the political board. You would think there's a civil war or something. The idiocy scale on the internet is off the charts. The internet also has reveled how inadequate our education system is. People can't even think for themselves. If someone dies and you have nothing nice to say........for Gods sake just shut up. Half the world is begging for something on here anyway.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

I can attest that the BC looks exactly like his picture on Twitter, big cowboy hat and all

[Robert Fischer]

I agree. Everywhere you go you are hit up for money: people hanging out on street corners at busy intersections holding their signs, always see beggars in front of the old churches in Europe (I always give them money). Off topic, but anyone who wants a job in the US can get one.

I donated money to Jose Flores.

I'd rather give $5 to a bum to buy some booze than give money to some charity after I pay for groceries that the cashier is instructed to solicit each customer, of which $4.50 goes to the businessmen who thought it up, in the name of 'awareness' and 'expenses' and 'non-profit', and 50cents goes to the actual purpose.

Although, I do get pissed if someone approaches me aggressively or starts squeegeeing my window without my go-ahead. I'm not begging people, and I'm trying to fit in with society, but I've lived a harder life than most of the beggars.

I don't have any specific problem with the Jose Flores charity (assuming the money goes to the family). I don't know how it was presented, or what exactly the thread-starter said or did.

The issue I have is the exploitation of the spirit of charity. The abuse of our 'social contract'.

Our 'social contract' is that we are supposed to help out the less fortunate and the sick, and the elderly.

I know... if you have a pessimistic view of society and business, that everything is exploitation. I get that if it makes the donator feel better, than it is in fact offering a value or a service in exchange for the money. An argument could be made that it's no different from many other transactions. I know I should just go with the flow.

It's become a politically correct thing, where if I go to the grocery store and I have $7 to last me until April 3rd and I buy a few bananas and an off-brand packet of chili spice, and the cashier says "Shall I add a donation of $1 to our Children's Charity?" I should be able to say "Go to hell." without looking like a dick. There's a social pressure against speaking up about solicitation. It's become a huge industry and people have a herd mentality and a naive trust in the media and in the marketing of these charities. It's not supposed to be a source of passive income for wealthy corporations. It's supposed to go to the advertised cause. We as citizens are supposed to be making informed decisions. The charities that push the definitions 'charity' to the limit for their own passive income stream in a public, social solicitation are as bad if not worse as the asshole who jumps on my windshield at the red-light with his squeegee and pressures me for money.

[whisperlunch]

Love the replies thanks. I shouldn’t have criticized him. But I stand by my opinion on questioning a fund me for a top earner. Now look I don’t know if that jockey has lots saved. I also don’t know if he had a big insurance policy
I actually met the BC at gulfstream few weeks back and he was very friendly. Looking back I just was in a bad mood and replied without thinking. My bad.

[PaceAdvantage]

I shouldn’t have criticized him. But I stand by my opinion on questioning a fund me for a top earner. Now look I don’t know if that jockey has lots saved. I also don’t know if he had a big insurance policyDoing it again? You obviously can't get enough.

[cj]

Love the replies thanks. I shouldn’t have criticized him. But I stand by my opinion on questioning a fund me for a top earner. Now look I don’t know if that jockey has lots saved. I also don’t know if he had a big insurance policy
I actually met the BC at gulfstream few weeks back and he was very friendly. Looking back I just was in a bad mood and replied without thinking. My bad.

I think if you really dig into it you'll find those earnings don't bring home as much as you think. Agent, valet, insurance (very high), etc.

[whisperlunch]

Pace
What I meant was I should have just stated on twitter my opinion without attacking his opinion on his tweet. Does that make sense. Look we these forums and twitter are for debating and some times it gets really out of hand.

If I came on this site promoting cause after cause asking for money and the causes were good causes would that be allowed? No. But let’s say I started a donation topic and you disagreed with it do you not have a right to say so? Yes

[GMB@BP]

I think if you really dig into it you'll find those earnings don't bring home as much as you think. Agent, valet, insurance (very high), etc.

Its much less than 10% of earnings.

its 5% of all non winning purses, 10% of winners.

30% or so for the agent.

money for the valet

money for insurance

money for pensions if your into that kind of thing, riders dont ride forever



the very best riders who ride for a lot of money do pretty good, the rest, not so much.

[proximity]

don't most tracks have mount fees which would often be significantly greater than 10% of the horse earnings?

[cj]

don't most tracks have mount fees which would often be significantly greater than 10% of the horse earnings?

Here is an example of a mount fee:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-commission-raises-jockey-fees-losing-mounts

I don't think you get both, only if you don't get a share of the purse do you get the mount fee.

Here were his stats for 2017. What do people think he cleared on the year?

2017 429 49 52 44 $1,720,288

I don't know the answer. Would like to hear some educated guesses.

[whisperlunch]

I thought I read where he had over 30,000 mounts, also I think each state is different on jock fees. If you hit the board you get % if worse u get jock fee. Amounts are different.

[cj]

I thought I read where he had over 30,000 mounts

Here is his stat page from Equibase, not quite 30,000.

http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=People&searchType=J&eID=637

Looks like he was in his 32nd year of riding.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can't believe some people are still debating whether a man who lost his very life to racing, "made enough" from the sport...:bang:

[GMB@BP]

Here is an example of a mount fee:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-commission-raises-jockey-fees-losing-mounts

I don't think you get both, only if you don't get a share of the purse do you get the mount fee.

Here were his stats for 2017. What do people think he cleared on the year?

2017 429 49 52 44 $1,720,288

I don't know the answer. Would like to hear some educated guesses.

Maybe 60k

[whisperlunch]

Pace ,

This is where the debate starts getting sideways. This is not an attack on Flores. Not even close. The mans name is irrelevant. The occupation is irrelevant
It’s about some one requesting money on behalf of someone else out of need. When the subject of the request appeared to be very successful in his chosen profession. I was just questioning if I was an asshole for saying wait this guy was at the top of his profession why does he need money donations. That’s all. I wonder why it’s assumed he was broke or why his family needed it ? At what point in life is it okay to say stop. Enough of the asking for money from others. Buy insurance save your money in case of an unexpected death.
The more i think about it I was dead wrong to go after Brooklyn. My apologies. But I have a righ to say let’a get more info on why this family needs help....

[AstrosFan]

Here is an example of a mount fee:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-commission-raises-jockey-fees-losing-mounts

I don't think you get both, only if you don't get a share of the purse do you get the mount fee.

Here were his stats for 2017. What do people think he cleared on the year?

2017 429 49 52 44 $1,720,288

I don't know the answer. Would like to hear some educated guesses.

Highlighted in yellow would be a rough guess after equibase stats

Calculations are 10% of the purse minus 10% agent fee and it doesn't include per mount losing fee or anything else associated with being a rider

[proximity]

Here is an example of a mount fee:

http://www.drf.com/news/kentucky-commission-raises-jockey-fees-losing-mounts

I don't think you get both, only if you don't get a share of the purse do you get the mount fee.

Here were his stats for 2017. What do people think he cleared on the year?

2017 429 49 52 44 $1,720,288

I don't know the answer. Would like to hear some educated guesses.

they don't get both. ten years ago when slots came to lowly PEN, last place horses started getting $200 and the mount fee was like $75.

like I said the bottom line is that top jockeys in Pennsylvania make significantly more than your average railbird and i don't think the op should be piled on for that reason alone.

jmo

[Dave Schwartz]

Pace ,

This is where the debate starts getting sideways. This is not an attack on Flores. Not even close. The mans name is irrelevant. The occupation is irrelevant
It’s about some one requesting money on behalf of someone else out of need. When the subject of the request appeared to be very successful in his chosen profession. I was just questioning if I was an asshole for saying wait this guy was at the top of his profession why does he need money donations. That’s all. I wonder why it’s assumed he was broke or why his family needed it ? At what point in life is it okay to say stop. Enough of the asking for money from others. Buy insurance save your money in case of an unexpected death.
The more i think about it I was dead wrong to go after Brooklyn. My apologies. But I have a righ to say let’a get more info on why this family needs help....


Of course you have the right. Again, I really appreciate anyone who can admit their mistakes.

All that behind us, if someone is holding a sign, "Hungry, please donate," does it really matter HOW they came to be in this situation? Obviously, life went wrong for them somewhere.

In the moment, we will either give or not, as we see fit. But making a judgement call based upon things like:


"Oh, poor guy. He never had a chance in life, so I will give."
"He had the same chance as the rest of us so I will give nothing."


While I certainly cannot speak for anyone but myself, IMHO... both of these are highly judgmental positions.

Just my opinion.

Dave

[cj]

I can't believe some people are still debating whether a man who lost his very life to racing, "made enough" from the sport...:bang:

I know you know this, but in case others don't I'm not debating it. I'm trying to shed some light on some misconceptions out there.

[cj]

Highlighted in yellow would be a rough guess after equibase stats

Calculations are 10% of the purse minus 10% agent fee and it doesn't include per mount losing fee or anything else associated with being a rider

Insurance has to be a small fortune, right? Medical and life.

[whisperlunch]

Dave im not sure if your agreeing with me or disagreeing but I like your input on this forum. Thanks.

I just thought this was an interesting topic/situation . I was curious if any others agreed with me. But apparently not. I hope to run into Brooklyn at the Florida derby. He’s like 7ft tall hard to miss him.

[Track Phantom]

Dave im not sure if your agreeing with me or disagreeing but I like your input on this forum. Thanks.

I just thought this was an interesting topic/situation . I was curious if any others agreed with me. But apparently not. I hope to run into Brooklyn at the Florida derby. He’s like 7ft tall hard to miss him.
Not sure I understand your fascination with this guy. Who is he? Never heard of him.

[PaceAdvantage]

But I have a righ to say let’a get more info on why this family needs help....What the hell business is it of yours? You either donate and help them out or you ignore them and don't. It's very simple. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and stealing money from your wallet.

Move on already and stop obsessing about it and "the Cowboy."

Thanks.

[Dave Schwartz]

Dave im not sure if your agreeing with me or disagreeing

Whisper,

Actually, neither. LOL

As you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And, then you asked for counsel. Finally, you were open to changing your position (in terms of your action).

All that is to be respected.

The other part... best told by a story.

I had a long-time friend. He was a fellow programmer that I'd known since 1991. Not a BFF, but we knew each other for over two decades of literally multiple communications per week.

Although I am somewhat right-of-center politically, compared to him, well... let's just say that he was ultra-right.

He firmly believed that you get what you earn, and you get what you deserve. Period. End of story.

Specifically, he used to lecture everyone on health care not being a right and that everyone should provide for themselves as he had done. (Special note: This is not about a political position.)

Over an 18-month period, his business failed, he lost everything he owned, and he had to start over from scratch. Then his wife left him.

A year after that, he got cancer.

That was when he started a GoFundMe to raise money for his "alternative" cancer therapy.

The hypocrisy of this was just appalling to me, and I did not contribute.

I never told him how I felt.

My point is that we all make judgments and then decisions based upon those judgments. Personally, I did not feel the need to involve him in any of that; either the judgment or the decision. I simply did not contribute.


Dave

[thaskalos]

Some people give freely...and others analyze things to death before dipping their hand in their pocket. Either way, they are right...as long as they don't make an "exhibition" of their choice. Whether one gives or not...the act is cheapened greatly when one feels compelled to make an "announcement" about it. That's how I see it.

[whisperlunch]

I’m a huge horse racing fan. I was I introduced to this site years Ago by one of my dear friends and mentors Jim the Hat Bradshaw
I respect this site and most all of the opinions and content. I thought it was an interesting topic and thought I’d share. Now I mentioned in the first post that I may get banned. Now I may be correct.


I have no fascination with this guy. I think he is as good as I’ve seen in awhile. I’m amazed others don’t question this kind of stuff. Maybe I’m just dead wrong.


Thanks Dave. I’ve followed you quite a bit and respect your take.

Who’s gonna win the Florida deby????

Peace

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's my opinion, since we're slinging them around freely in this thread.

I think it's cold and callous and downright icky to be micro-analyzing this poor dead jockey's estate...trying to figure out if the family really needs/deserves to set up a gofundme page. (I'm talking directly to whisper here, not pointing the finger at anyone else who may have been collateral damage).

Most people who are well off don't bother setting up gofundme sites. I said most...there are always exceptions I suppose. So chances are, they set it up for a good reason.

I haven't thought about banning you (yet), so not sure why there is such paranoia, unless you really are trolling me...which I'm starting to suspect more and more as you continue to pound away mercilessly at this particular topic.

I'm fatigued, and a little bit (well, a lot actually) embarrassed by this thread and how it's evolved. I thought there would be more respect shown for this man (and his family) who died in an absolutely horrific manner doing what he and all of us here love.

[FakeNameChanged]

Not sure I understand your fascination with this guy. Who is he? Never heard of him.
TP, you need to google the Paul Lo Duca Leaving TVG thread to fully understand this thread.

[Kevin Cox]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, as I feel it's embarrassing on it's premise, but as things are inaccurately stated here, I figured I'd put the facts out here. ( Remember those? )

NEVER said that I was collecting for a Go Fund Me Page, and even told him that, but yet he is repeating here that I was. I stated "I am giving 5 times whatever my winners pay over a 3 day span to the PDJF in the MEMORY of Jose Flores --- feel free to match in whole or part." Never did I ever say "Give to Go Fund Me", I donated $497 on my own & followers kicked in an extra $700 for DISABLED RIDERS. You're gonna compare him to Johnny V.? Really ?? And you want to know what a rider REALLY makes before you throw out these numbers ?

He made $64,136,174 over 32 years. That's $2,004,255 of which he gets an estimated 10%.
That gives him $200,425 per year of which the agent gets 25%, leaving him $150, 310.
His valet gets 10% ( off the top # ) which leaves him $130,268, He's likely in the 30% tax bracket, leaving him $91,188.
Now he has to pay for insurance ( not like you or I, but a HIGH liability insurance ( and family ) of likely about $3,000 a month.
That leaves him $55,188. Now he has to pay for whips, boots, helmet covers, pants, winter gear, goggles, and the occasional saddle & helmet.
Toss in gas & tolls for driving all over the mid atlantic circuit and go at the very conservative $500 a month.
That means he CLEARED an average of $49,188 a year.
Give me a break already.

Let the rider rest in peace, and let this thread rest in peace.

[whisperlunch]

Kevin, I apologized for hijacking your twitter response. Everyone commenting on this topic has basically said I was wrong and should have kept quiet. Now Whosonfirts is bringing up old topics I was involved in. I also have been told by more than one person active on this site that be very careful or you will get blocked if you post anything that goes against the main beliefs of the site owner / manager. So that’s why I said I’d probably get banned for starting this.
Look

I sincerely apologize. I like to have a little fun and stir the pot. This site is exactly made for debating and discussing horse racing topics. Obviously i was wrong.

Regards,

Doug

[cj]

Kevin, I apologized for hijacking your twitter response. Everyone commenting on this topic has basically said I was wrong and should have kept quiet. Now Whosonfirts is bringing up old topics I was involved in. I also have been told by more than one person active on this site that be very careful or you will get blocked if you post anything that goes against the main beliefs of the site owner / manager. So that’s why I said I’d probably get banned for starting this.
Look

I sincerely apologize. I like to have a little fun and stir the pot. This site is exactly made for debating and discussing horse racing topics. Obviously i was wrong.

Regards,

Doug

Mike is way lenient when it comes to banning people. I have no idea who would tell you something that foolish. It simply isn't true.

[PaceAdvantage]

I also have been told by more than one person active on this site that be very careful or you will get blocked if you post anything that goes against the main beliefs of the site owner / manager. So that’s why I said I’d probably get banned for starting this. Welp...now I know you're a troll.

Whatever dude...

[PaceAdvantage]

I also have been told by more than one person active on this site that be very careful or you will get blocked if you post anything that goes against the main beliefs of the site owner / manager.And btw DOUG, this is total bullshit.

TONS of people "go against my main beliefs," not only in racing topics, but ESPECIALLY on off-topic, and they don't get banned (unless of course they're trolls).

Just look around. I know you can do that.

[JimG]

I rarely read the off-topic forums. With that said, I have never been more disgusted by a horse racing thread in my almost 20 years here as a member. Hopefully PA will choose to close or delete it.

Jim

[whisperlunch]

What the heck is a troll? My gosh I posted a situation that happened and all sudden it’s the most disgusting thread of all time. Come on. Look I have said I was wrong but why are you guys piling on.