What Is This Trainer Thinking???

[Buddha]

This was pointed out to me from a buddy at hte track. Monday night the 23rd there was a horse at Mountaineer named Oliver Mellors that ran for Virginia Demczyk in the third race. Tuesday night in the 8th race, there is a horse trained by Demczyk that is named Oliver Mellors in the 8th race. Why would a trainer enter a horse back to back days, and run in both??? Has a horse ever run in back to back days before? I thought that was very odd.

[BIG RED]

Budda, just checked charts. Didn't see him run Monday, but did Teus. He just entered him in two different races, and was going to be pulled from the other

[Buddha]

Here are teh charts. he ran both days.


Mountaineer Race Track And Gaming Resort - August 23th, 2004 - Race 3
Allowance - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward (NW3 L) One Mile On The Turf (Temp Rail set at 21 feet)
Purse: $32,400
Value of Race: $32,400 1st $18,792, 2nd $6,480, 3rd $3,240, 4th $1,620, 5th $972, 6th $648, 7th $324, 8th $324
Weather: Cloudy Track: Good
Off at: 7:52 Start: Good for all

Pgm HorseName (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP SP 1/4 1/2 3/4 Str Fin Odds
3 The Stalker (Murphy, C.K.) 115 BLA 3 1 1-1 1-1 1-1/2 1-1/2 1-1 1.90*
6 Kilgarten (Pereira, O.M.) 115 BLA 6 2 2-3 2-1 1/2 3-2 2-1 2-3 3/4 8.30
7 Bucyrus (Garcia, J.J.) 111 BLA b 7 3 4-1/2 4-2 2-1/2 3-4 3-3 1/4 4.40
5 Oliver Mellors (Tolentino, P.) 115 BLA bf 5 10 10 10 8-2 6-4 4-Head 31.40
8 Yada Boy (Whitney, D.G.) 110 BL b 8 5 5-4 5-2 4-1 4-1/2 5-3/4 6.90
1 Film Star (Perez, Jr., J.A.) 115 BLA b 1 7 7-4 6-4 6-3 5-3 6-4 1/4 17.20
10 Tippytoebyme (Quinones, L.M.) 118 BLA b 10 9 9-1 8-1/2 7-1 7-3 7-6 5.30
4 Colonial Prospect (Parker, D.L.) 115 BL 4 8 8-Head 7-Head 9-5 8-1 8-1 1/2 17.90
9 Lunar Perigee (Stokes, J.) 115 BLA bf 9 4 3-1 3-1/2 5-Head 9-12 9-15 1/4 10.80
2 J. Harmon (Wilson, B.M.) 118 BL 2 6 6-Head 9-1 10 10 10 13.00
Fractional Times: 22.54, 46.16, 1:10.96, 1:36.52



Mountaineer Race Track And Gaming Resort - August 24th, 2004 - Race 8
Claiming - For Thoroughbred Three Year Old and Upward (NW3 L) Five And One Half Furlongs On The Dirt
Purse: $13,600
Value of Race: $13,600 1st $7,888, 2nd $2,720, 3rd $1,360, 4th $680, 5th $408, 6th $272, 7th $136, 8th $136
Weather: Cloudy Track: Fast
Off at: 10:11 Start: Good for all

Pgm HorseName (Jockey) Wgt M/E PP SP 1/4 3/8 Str Fin Odds
2 Pot Limit (Centeno, D.) 118 BL 2 3 4-Head 2-1/2 1-Head 1-3 1/4 5.80
10 Shocking Speed (Quinones, L.M.) 115 BLA b 10 1 1-1 1-1 2-2 2-1 1/2 4.00
7 Gallant Soldier (LeJeune, Jr., S.P.) 115 BL b 7 10 10 8-1/2 5-Head 3-2 1/2 10.60
5 Angel Aglo (Walker, Jr., B.J.) 113 BLA b 5 6 7-1 6-2 7-1 4-1 1.20*
8 Assets of Luck (Gondron, T.D.) 117 BLA b 8 5 5-1 3-2 4-1 5-Head 15.70
6 Royal Medal (Gonzalez, Jr., S.) 116 BLA bf 6 8 9-2 10 9-1/2 6-3/4 18.20
3 Oliver Mellors (Tolentino, P.) 115 BLA bf 3 9 8-1 7-Head 8-Head 7-Neck 13.50
4 Please Pay Artax (Ramgeet, A.R.) 112 BL b 4 7 6-5 5-4 3-3 8-1 1/4 21.40
1 On the Bay (Whitney, D.G.) 113 BLA b 1 4 3-1 4-Head 6-1/2 9-3 28.20
9 Quick Storm (Stokes, III, R.A.) 115 BLA 9 2 2-1 9-1 10 10 12.80
Fractional Times: 22.47, 46.41, 59.09, 1:05.78

[BIG RED]

I stand corrected, checked 8th race Mon, why I don't know. And to answer your question, NO, never seen this anywhere, myself. A mile race monday is even stranger?

[JustRalph]

I heard Frank Lyons on TVG say that there used to be a trainer in Europe who would bring a horse back off a layoff and run him in a mile and quarter race and two days later enter him in a 6F or the like. He said that he only did it every couple of years.....but always won on the 2nd race..... I have never seen it here

[Pace Cap'n]

Just recently (in the last few weeks) there was a horse in England who ran something like 14 times in 20 days. Won 7 or 8 of them.

Read about it in a link from Equidaily. Sure wish I knew where to find it now.

[Dutch]

Um, the second race was claiming, and there would be no way the first race would show up in the horses PP lines after 24 hrs. Maybe it was some kind of ploy to have him claimed???

[gillenr]

About 15 yrs ago, saw a horse run in England who had run(don't know how well) the night before - both routes.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by gillenr
About 15 yrs ago, saw a horse run in England who had run(don't know how well) the night before - both routes.

Now that is a turn around...........

[breakage]

Years ago (20 or so) a horse ran at Philadelphia Park (then Keystone) in the afternoon and then raced at Penn National that same night. I think it had something to do with the Penn officials not wanting the trainer to scratch the horse even though they knew he had run that afternoon.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I have to post on this!!!

Ok LOOSEHORSE want to hear what you have to say about this, You have seemed to tell EVERYONE at calder about my Don Hector, YOU ARE A COWARD and I DARE to to show your face or give me your name,PEOPLE like you are TRASH..I could SPIT in your face..YOU have NO RIGHT to SLANDER me when you dont even know me or know what I stand for.HOW many winners have you had in the last year??..Would love top know how YOU are being taken at Calder from these so-called trainers.. BAD CLAIM..its very easy to say that AFTER the fact.I guess your a guy that hates to see anyone BUT yourself do good.

[Macdiarmadillo]

Nice to see there are still some horses that can do this! Now if he was in the money in both, I'd be more impressed. Can't knock the $1750 purse money. You go back to the '60s and you'll find horses in the short meets (like Saratoga!) running on 2-3 days rest. Then laid off for some time.

There is a story of some trainer or racing official, once a jockey at some podunk track, being given 3 mounts on one card by one trainer. It was only on the third ride that it dawned on him he was on the same horse each time.

[hurrikane]

I noticed a horse doing this a few month ago. First time I had seen it. Did'nt run well in either race. Think it was at DEL

I'll have to search the db later..maybe it was the same trainer.

I think idiot would be a good classification for him

[Valuist]

There's a filly named Dinah's Pearl who ran last Sunday at Saratoga and came right back to run on Wednesday. I think she was off the board both times.

I remember reading Dave Feldman said a number of years ago a horse won the Illinois Derby, then was put on a train for Latonia (now Turfway) where it won the Latonia Derby the next day. That is amazing.

[so.cal.fan]

Years and years ago they did this Buddha.....I haven't seen this done in over 20 years in Calif.
Used to see it once in a while at the Pomona Fair (Fairplex).

[Jeff P]

Remember years ago reading something called The Methods and Maxims of Pittsburgh Phil, a horseplayer who was reported to have left behind a multi million dollar estate at the time of his death (almost all of it generated from action at the windows.)

One of the things that has always stuck with me from reading that work is this: Phil claimed 'condition' to be the most important factor. One of the quotes I remember went something like this: "A class horse couldn't win a race with a feather on his back unless he is 'in condition.' "

If I remember right, one of Phil's favorite ways of identifying a horse 'in condition' was to look for a race within the past five days. During his time such horses won a lot more than their fair share of races.

[so.cal.fan]

I read that too, Jeff....however that was the turn of the last century, circa 1900. A lot has changed........
One very low percentage trainer here in So. Cal. tried this several years back at Del Mar, if I recall......he sort of became a laughing stock.....it never worked, and he was really knocked. Perhaps they do this in harness racing? I don't know, but nowadays with thoroughbreds....doesn't work.

[Tom]

In the 70's, my friend's horse ran at the Barington Fair curcuit on Wed, Fri, and Mon. 5Fur, 1m16, 5 fur. Won two and placed in the other.

[JohnGalt1]

I view a horse off a 7 day or less layoff a positive factor. I don't bet it blindly, but it's and imprtant sign of trainer intent.

On Sunday October 22 at Retama Cowboy Drifter ran a mile $7500 clm nw3. He won and paid $8.80. His last race was October 19 where he finished third 11 1/2 back at 10.80-1 at the same distance and conditions.

I noticed in the pps that he ran July 1 at Lone Star finishing 5th 6 1/2 back at 27.90-1 then came back on July 3 and won at 8.50-1.

In the 80's at Canterbury Park a mare named Reen Aferd won two turf routes in three days. And she was pregnant!

[RXB]

About 12 years ago, at the now-defunct Playfair (a cheapie track in Eastern Washington), a horse ran on back-to-back days and won both races. Can't remember the name of the horse.

[Buddha]

Originally posted by jgalt1
I view a horse off a 7 day or less layoff a positive factor. I don't bet it blindly, but it's and imprtant sign of trainer intent.

On Sunday October 22 at Retama Cowboy Drifter ran a mile $7500 clm nw3. He won and paid $8.80. His last race was October 19 where he finished third 11 1/2 back at 10.80-1 at the same distance and conditions.

I noticed in the pps that he ran July 1 at Lone Star finishing 5th 6 1/2 back at 27.90-1 then came back on July 3 and won at 8.50-1.

In the 80's at Canterbury Park a mare named Reen Aferd won two turf routes in three days. And she was pregnant!

sure, the 5-7 day rest and run again is a decent angle. I have no problems with that, as to me, most places would have already had the entries taken for the second race, so i dont think that the first race would be an all out effort, have seen horses run like that before, just not back to back nights,.

[Hosshead]

There was a study (I think it was Quirin's book), that showed that when horses return after only a few days, they have a better chance to win if their last race was a sprint. As routes take more out of a horse. In fact, coming back so fast from a route was not a good bet.