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View Full Version : Gary Cohn just resigned


lamboguy
03-06-2018, 06:47 PM
this should bring some volatility to the s+p and also the metals markets. gold was tipping its hand today that something big is on the way, not sure if this is the something big though.

Clocker
03-06-2018, 07:14 PM
Wow, no one saw that coming! :rolleyes:

I'm not sure, but he may have been the last reputable economic adviser Trump had left.

Oh, besides Peter Navarro, of course. :pound:

FantasticDan
03-06-2018, 07:39 PM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x4ZFu-NO3pk/VC6K2342ToI/AAAAAAAAAao/Hf2_rMpL58M/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/titanic_emil_besirevic_09.jpg

elysiantraveller
03-06-2018, 07:47 PM
https://i.imgflip.com/1anjib.jpg

PaceAdvantage
03-06-2018, 07:50 PM
Just like the Hollywood Access video, this must mean Trump's done for. :pound:

johnhannibalsmith
03-06-2018, 07:52 PM
thanks 0bama

Tape Reader
03-06-2018, 08:04 PM
Buying opportunity for day trade. Opening will be the low for the day.

Clocker
03-06-2018, 08:22 PM
Just like the Hollywood Access video, this must mean Trump's done for.

Hollywood Access wasn't a credible warning of possible economics troubles.

boxcar
03-06-2018, 08:23 PM
this should bring some volatility to the s+p and also the metals markets. gold was tipping its hand today that something big is on the way, not sure if this is the something big though.

The "something big" is the expected fallout from the audit of the Federal Reserve which is underway. :coffee:

Ocala Mike
03-06-2018, 08:29 PM
Just like the Hollywood Access video, this must mean Trump's done for. :pound:

No effect on Trump, maybe, but that great Trump stock market you've all been clamoring about......:rip::rip::rip::rip::rip::rip:

FantasticDan
03-06-2018, 08:30 PM
Just like the Hollywood Access video, this must mean Trump's done for. :pound:
4

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Chess

Bay

Bee

PaceAdvantage
03-06-2018, 08:50 PM
4

D

Chess

Bay

BeeAwwwww...Gary Cohn resigned.....awwwwwww.....what are we going to do NOW? :lol:

Good, let the market drop...we have finally erased 2018 gains...:lol:

I love how you guys act as if the sky is falling....when we erase all the gains we've made since Trump was elected, let me know.

classhandicapper
03-06-2018, 08:51 PM
Good, another globalist bites the dust.

On second thought let me take that back. Another guy willing to sell 10s of millions of Americans down the toilet and rack up huge debts to foreigners for greater profits for Wall St bites the dust.

elysiantraveller
03-06-2018, 08:56 PM
Awwwww...Gary Cohn resigned.....awwwwwww.....what are we going to do NOW? :lol:

Good, let the market drop...we have finally erased 2018 gains...:lol:

I love how you guys act as if the sky is falling....when we erase all the gains we've made since Trump was elected, let me know.

I don't think anyone says the sky is falling.

I find it funny even Trump's Chief Economic Advisor disagrees with his trade plan so much he's willing to resign over it.

chadk66
03-06-2018, 09:00 PM
couldn't handle all the winning

Clocker
03-06-2018, 09:14 PM
couldn't handle all the winning

He should have stuck around then. He wouldn't have to worry about that in the trade area.

PaceAdvantage
03-06-2018, 09:14 PM
I don't think anyone says the sky is falling.

I find it funny even Trump's Chief Economic Advisor disagrees with his trade plan so much he's willing to resign over it.He was supposedly out the door a few months ago...I'm surprised he stuck around this long

classhandicapper
03-06-2018, 09:19 PM
couldn't handle all the winning

We couldn't get rid of that guy fast enough. IMO, he's an idiot. I may have been wrong for a couple of decades, but at least in the face of overwhelming evidence I finally figured it out. And to be clear, I am in the small subgroup that made out like a bandit over the last 30 years.

Clocker
03-06-2018, 09:20 PM
He was supposedly out the door a few months ago...I'm surprised he stuck around this long

He played a major role in the White House on the tax bill. And he may have stuck around in a last ditch effort to talk Trump out of his tariff plans.

It will certainly be interesting to see what he has to say on that issue.

JustRalph
03-06-2018, 09:53 PM
Never heard of him

Clocker
03-06-2018, 10:11 PM
Never heard of him

From Wiki:

Gary David Cohn (born August 27, 1960) is an American investment banker who served as the 11th Director of the National Economic Council and was chief economic advisor to President Donald Trump. He was formerly the president and chief operating officer of Goldman Sachs from 2006 to 2017. That doesn't say anything about his ability to promote good policy, but it does say that he knows how businesses and the market will react to changes in taxes or tariffs.

The other Trump adviser on trade and tariffs is Peter Navarro, a retired California professor, a liberal and a Democrat. His views on tariffs are generally rejected by economists across the spectrum, liberals and conservatives.

Tape Reader
03-06-2018, 10:24 PM
I would bet that Gary David Cohn is long calls at the opening, if he is so smart.

Tom
03-06-2018, 11:09 PM
Never heard of him

Me neither. :sleeping:

Nutz and Boltz
03-06-2018, 11:22 PM
POTUS Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do if he became POTUS for the past 30 years. Gotta give him credit. He's in charge now . Let the chips fall where they may. Maybe he won't make America great again, but maybe at least he will make America "America" again.

PaceAdvantage
03-06-2018, 11:54 PM
OK.....NOW the world has gone nuts (or at least off-topic). :pound:

lamboguy
03-07-2018, 03:29 AM
With Trump you never know where he is coming from or what you are going to get. He shufflles the deck to no end. Everyone is on a gurss and the media is distracted at all times. I say its a pretty good way to operate and time will prove me right
.

reckless
03-07-2018, 06:07 AM
Wow, no one saw that coming! :rolleyes:

I'm not sure, but he may have been the last reputable economic adviser Trump had left.

Oh, besides Peter Navarro, of course. :pound:

Considering your heretofore 'expert' opinions on what's what and who's who in this country's political and economic world since President Trump's historic Summer of 2015, by you calling Cohn reputable and referring to Navarrro in a snarky manner, I feel quite happy with your assessment. :jump:

reckless
03-07-2018, 06:16 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x4ZFu-NO3pk/VC6K2342ToI/AAAAAAAAAao/Hf2_rMpL58M/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/titanic_emil_besirevic_09.jpg

FanDan, what is really sinking is the Old World Order where Fortune 500 corporations and despicable globalist cabals buy off politicians such as the leaders of both the GOP and Democrat Party, solely for their financial riches and benefits at the expense of working class citizens here and abroad.

reckless
03-07-2018, 06:26 AM
No effect on Trump, maybe, but that great Trump stock market you've all been clamoring about......:rip::rip::rip::rip::rip::rip:

As I have been almost the only one that has consistently been clamoring for a great stock market since a 11-2-16 prediction of mine -- and now,8,000 plus Dow points later -- saying the market rally is dead because of a resignation by Gary Cohn is ridiculous, to put it nicely.

reckless
03-07-2018, 06:30 AM
Buying opportunity for day trade. Opening will be the low for the day.

I am with you Tape Reader. There will probably be a lot of volatility today and maybe the entire week. Opportunity is in front of us and is all for the taking.

Cohn's resignation will not put a halt to the money generating and profit making gold mines of companies such as Apple, Netflix, Master Card, Boeing... and a host of others.

Good luck, Tape Reader.

reckless
03-07-2018, 06:39 AM
I don't think anyone says the sky is falling.

I find it funny even Trump's Chief Economic Advisor disagrees with his trade plan so much he's willing to resign over it.

Aside from knowing what Gary Cohn is all about, I don't have any personal animous towards him.

So, the fact that he resigned over a policy difference with his boss, President Donald J. Trump, was a sign of class. Cohn should be commended for doing the proper, right thing.

And I mean that with no snark at all intended. Too many slugs stay on their jobs because it's an important or well-paying gig even when they are at odds with their superiors, such as clown Jeff Sessions.

reckless
03-07-2018, 07:00 AM
Good, another globalist bites the dust.

On second thought let me take that back. Another guy willing to sell 10s of millions of Americans down the toilet and rack up huge debts to foreigners for greater profits for Wall St bites the dust.

Now, now, that's not what the financial, political and 'free' trade experts on this site say.

Those tens of thousands of manufacturing plants and factories closed in the past 35 years ... and those 700,000 plus blue collar jobs lost ... or the billions of US dollars and wealth transferred from America citizens to China, Mexico and others such as the international cabal of Fortune 500 corporations and their partners-in-crime bankers and paper shufflers ... all mean nothing to them. They're the smartest guys in the room, despite being wrong all the time.

Thanks to those one world/one market international globalists, with the help of the bought and paid for GOP and Democrat elites, this country has not had a trade surplus since 1975 or so! That's OK too, according to the smarty-pants, since steel workers really should learn another trade, such as coding in C+ or python.

Shameful for that thinking and for what's really happened as a result, but then again, it's still all a-OK according to our resident geniuses because they could now buy socks, scarfs and underwear at Dollar General or Wal-Mart cheap.

reckless
03-07-2018, 07:06 AM
He was supposedly out the door a few months ago...I'm surprised he stuck around this long

He would have left months ago but he was pushing to replace Janet Yellen for the job as head of the Federal Reserve.

When he wasn't given the nod, Cohn's leaving clock has been ticking ever since. The President's trade policy, a policy he campaign on and won the election on, gave Cohn a more 'acceptable' reason for quitting yesterday.

reckless
03-07-2018, 07:29 AM
From Wiki:

That doesn't say anything about his ability to promote good policy, but it does say that he knows how businesses and the market will react to changes in taxes or tariffs.

The other Trump adviser on trade and tariffs is Peter Navarro, a retired California professor, a liberal and a Democrat. His views on tariffs are generally rejected by economists across the spectrum, liberals and conservatives.

There is only one or two ways to become a top dog at Goldman Sachs -- one, being a successful trader and money shuffler and I am sure Cohn is one. That's really it in a nutshell. Two, is the ability to corrupt and buy off stupid career politicians to institute the type of economic policy and 'free' trade deals between countries that benefited Cohn and his partners-in-crime bankers at Sachs and elsewhere.

It doesn't matter that all this was a net detriment to the working class and sovereign citizen. Again, it was a job I am sure Gary Cohn was capable of handling and doing well.

As for Peter Navarro --a liberal and a Democrat-- of course his tariff views are rejected by the entire compromised spectrum of elites mentioned.

Many benefited from the 43 years of successive US trade deficits, the transfer of billions and billions of wealth overseas, etc. It is simply a failed and corrupt economic policy they all own up to and still want to continue. It is a PLUS that these crooks reject the likes of Peter Navarro.

PS--Gary Cohn is a liberal and a Democrat too.

reckless
03-07-2018, 07:43 AM
Never heard of him

What has been left unsaid so far is ... Gary Cohn would have had a similar position in a Hillary! administration too.

He may have also replaced Janet Yellen if Hillary! won, although in all probability, Yellen might have stayed on under Hillary!

Cohn campaigned Trump for the job as Fed Chief this year and the globalist elites in the media pushed for him too. The country is way better off without Cohn as head of the Fed ... it would be like giving the job of watching over the hens to a wolf.

classhandicapper
03-07-2018, 09:31 AM
Now, now, that's not what the financial, political and 'free' trade experts on this site say.

Those tens of thousands of manufacturing plants and factories closed in the past 35 years ... and those 700,000 plus blue collar jobs lost ... or the billions of US dollars and wealth transferred from America citizens to China, Mexico and others such as the international cabal of Fortune 500 corporations and their partners-in-crime bankers and paper shufflers ... all mean nothing to them. They're the smartest guys in the room, despite being wrong all the time.

Thanks to those one world/one market international globalists, with the help of the bought and paid for GOP and Democrat elites, this country has not had a trade surplus since 1975 or so! That's OK too, according to the smarty-pants, since steel workers really should learn another trade, such as coding in C+ or python.

Shameful for that thinking and for what's really happened as a result, but then again, it's still all a-OK according to our resident geniuses because they could now buy socks, scarfs and underwear at Dollar General or Wal-Mart cheap.

Exactly.

Free trade can work well when both sides have similar salary and cost structures, similar regulations, and everyone has good intentions and is fair. However, when conditions are very different, one side can win and the other side lose.

When you are running a large trade deficit you are losing.

They are getting the jobs and using their trade surplus to buy our stocks, bonds, real estate, and businesses (getting wealthier). We are getting the cheaper but slowly depreciating cars, electronics, clothes etc. and the liabilities for all the bond interest with accompanying political pressure from abroad because they own all our bonds.

The only ones that make out really well in the US are the large US multinational corporations that move their operations overseas to take advantage of cheap labor, lax regulations etc.. and the subset of people that have surplus savings to invest in them (those that didn't lose their job or take a job with lower income)

Why is it that people can understand that businesses will leave California for Texas or other greener pastures when the taxes, regulations, workers comp costs, and salaries etc.. are not similar, but not understand that companies will leave the US when taxes, regulations, and costs are not comparable. At least when they leave CA, it's another group of Americans benefiting from the switch. When it's global trade and you are losing, America is losing just like CA.

Trump is correct on trade. All the free trade economists have been wrong. Maybe they'll be right after another 50 years, but not before the rest of the world extracts so much wealth from the US we have dropped to their level while they were rising to ours.

I'm no fan of tariffs. That's not a solution. It's a risky policy if it gets out of hand. But if they are used as a hammer to try drive fairer trade deals that will allow US companies to export more and bring jobs and companies back to the US, so be it. We have been getting our clock cleaned for decades on free trade. More of the same is a worse solution.

Clocker
03-07-2018, 11:51 AM
by you calling Cohn reputable and referring to Navarrro in a snarky manner, I feel quite happy with your assessment. :jump:

Snarky? Pot, kettle, etc.

How about addressing some facts once in a while, other than just heaping praise on Trump and scorn on anyone that says anything critical about him.

Fact. Bush tried the same steel tariffs in 2002. In short, the country lost a net 200K jobs and Bush backed off. How is repeating the same thing going to have a different outcome this time?

PaceAdvantage
03-07-2018, 11:52 AM
Well, the "Gary Cohn Gap" has been officially filled.

Congrats to all those who followed through and bought at the open...you just made some good money in only 90 minutes time.

AndyC
03-07-2018, 12:59 PM
He would have left months ago but he was pushing to replace Janet Yellen for the job as head of the Federal Reserve.

When he wasn't given the nod, Cohn's leaving clock has been ticking ever since. The President's trade policy, a policy he campaign on and won the election on, gave Cohn a more 'acceptable' reason for quitting yesterday.

Bingo.

PaceAdvantage
03-07-2018, 01:02 PM
Well, the "Gary Cohn Gap" has been officially filled.

Congrats to all those who followed through and bought at the open...you just made some good money in only 90 minutes time.And, as happens as often as not, once the gap was filled, market turns around and starts heading down again...

boxcar
03-07-2018, 01:21 PM
Never heard of him

Big Dem globalist. Why Trump kept him around is beyond me.

JustRalph
03-07-2018, 01:25 PM
Cohn was for a carbon tax? And other Dem policies?

Good riddance!

reckless
03-07-2018, 01:31 PM
Snarky? Pot, kettle, etc.

How about addressing some facts once in a while, other than just heaping praise on Trump and scorn on anyone that says anything critical about him.

Fact. Bush tried the same steel tariffs in 2002. In short, the country lost a net 200K jobs and Bush backed off. How is repeating the same thing going to have a different outcome this time?

... addressing some facts ...?

You must have ignored what I have been posting for years now, much less these past few days ... or you simply don't understand the subjects, which will not surprise anyone any longer.

I posted the net increase of this 'onerous' tariff on steel ... such as a $30,000 car with $500 of steel in it. A 20 % tariff adds $100 .... so on a $30,000 car a whopping $100 increase is little more than dollars and dimes. You never responded to that post either so arithmatic 101 must be a problem for you too.

Or how about the USA having 43 straight years of trade deficits since free trade accelerated in 1975. I posted that and you again said nothing. Or the tens of thousands of factories closed and the 100s of thousands of blue collar job losses ... again I posted that numerous times, usually the only one. Do you dispute any of these facts?

Where were you with a 'fact' disputing anything I previously posted, aside from your those very silly and juvenile emojies, plus your claim that I don't provide facts. :lol::lol:

If you need a George Bush -- either Pappy or his stupid son W -- to promote the benefits of 'free' trade as you say it is or to convince us how expert you are on the subject, it'll truly expose how little you really do know afterall.

porchy44
03-07-2018, 01:38 PM
Now, now, that's not what the financial, political and 'free' trade experts on this site say.

Those tens of thousands of manufacturing plants and factories closed in the past 35 years ... and those 700,000 plus blue collar jobs lost ... or the billions of US dollars and wealth transferred from America citizens to China, Mexico and others such as the international cabal of Fortune 500 corporations and their partners-in-crime bankers and paper shufflers ... all mean nothing to them. They're the smartest guys in the room, despite being wrong all the time.

Thanks to those one world/one market international globalists, with the help of the bought and paid for GOP and Democrat elites, this country has not had a trade surplus since 1975 or so! That's OK too, according to the smarty-pants, since steel workers really should learn another trade, such as coding in C+ or python.

Shameful for that thinking and for what's really happened as a result, but then again, it's still all a-OK according to our resident geniuses because they could now buy socks, scarfs and underwear at Dollar General or Wal-Mart cheap.

Hear, hear. Could not of said it better myself.

reckless
03-07-2018, 01:45 PM
Cohn was for a carbon tax? And other Dem policies?

Good riddance!

Cohn was also the mastermind of the mortgage backed guarantee charade that eventually resulted in the 2007-08 financial meltdown that crippled the economy here and around the world.

He was the one that also went on TV regularly telling the financial community what a wonderful, modern and safe product it was -- all at the same time as his partners and assorted gonifs at Goldman Sachs were shorting the bonds and those institutions that Sachs sold them to.

Then the market crashed Goldman's main 'partner' AIG went nuts, declared bankruptcy and refused to pay back Goldman claiming 'partners' shouldn't be on the opposite side of the same product they sold them and traded on.

Cohn and Sachs later convinced the stupid and corrupt members of Congress to bail out AIG, et al, with US tax payer money - the sucker of last resort.

Cohn became a billionaire and a 'free' trade expert to all the smarty pants and experts here, on Wall Street, and in the media.

Good riddance! is correct.

Clocker
03-07-2018, 01:51 PM
... addressing some facts ...?



Like the simple fact I just brought up, and which you tap danced around with a lot of irrelevant smoke and mirrors.

To repeat, Bush instituted a tariff on steel in 2002 and 200,000 American jobs were lost. Trump's steel tariff is as harsh or harsher. So how is Trump's tariff good while Bush's was a disaster?

RunForTheRoses
03-07-2018, 02:17 PM
Excellent article.

https://mises.org/library/clarifications-case-free-trade

From the article:


Since the time of Ricardo, the key assumption of trade theory remains, in the recent words of trade theorist Roy J. Ruffin, "the inability of factors to move from a country where productivity is low to another where productivity is higher." In a recent article in History of Political Economy (34:4, 2002, pp. 727-748), Ruffin shows that Ricardo’s claim over Robert Torrens as the discoverer of the principle of comparative advantage lies in Ricardo’s realization that comparative advantage, the basis of the case for free trade, lies in "factor immobility between countries." Ruffin notes that "of the 973 words Ricardo devoted to explaining the law of comparative advantage, 485 emphasized the importance of factor immobility."
If factors of production are as mobile as traded goods, the case for free trade--that it benefits all countries--collapses. There is no known case for free trade if factors of production are as mobile as traded goods.

reckless
03-07-2018, 02:21 PM
Like the simple fact I just brought up, and which you tap danced around with a lot of irrelevant smoke and mirrors.

To repeat, Bush instituted a tariff on steel in 2002 and 200,000 American jobs were lost. Trump's steel tariff is as harsh or harsher. So how is Trump's tariff good while Bush's was a disaster?

G.W. Bush and his pappy, Bush I, were unmitigated economic failures so anyone hitching their wagon to these stalwart, 'free' trade Republicans, simply needs their head examined.

The Bushies, true Republican and staunch 'free' traders by the way, both destroyed the US economy during their tenure and as a result, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were eventually elected as a result.

You keep mentioning this silly example of W. imposing steel tariffs ... yet he recinded them and the trade deficit still grew larger, and more blue collar union guys still lost their jobs .... how come? The tariff couldn't have done all that since Bush rescinded them as you tell us.

RunForTheRoses
03-07-2018, 02:22 PM
In a Pic

reckless
03-07-2018, 02:25 PM
Like the simple fact I just brought up, and which you tap danced around with a lot of irrelevant smoke and mirrors.

To repeat, Bush instituted a tariff on steel in 2002 and 200,000 American jobs were lost. Trump's steel tariff is as harsh or harsher. So how is Trump's tariff good while Bush's was a disaster?

Irrelevant smoke and mirrors ... 55,000 factories and manufacturing plants closed, millions upon millions of blue collar jobs lost ... 43 straight years of trade deficits ... and you say I tap dance around irrelevant smoke and mirrors.

PaceAdvantage
03-07-2018, 04:50 PM
Well, there you go...market looks like it has a chance to finish up for the day...so much for Gary Cohn...

HalvOnHorseracing
03-07-2018, 05:01 PM
First, you couldn't get a new or refurbished steel mill permitted in this country in less than five years, if at all.

Second, if you're talking about fully integrated mills (meaning they make their own sinter and coke) you're talking about a lot of money to build or refurbish one. A lot of the old integrated plants became what they call "mini mills." or mills that melt down scrap metal to make secondary products.

As for aluminum, there is only one sensible option. Drink a lot more beer and recycle the cans.

Tom
03-07-2018, 06:15 PM
As for aluminum, there is only one sensible option. Drink a lot more beer and recycle the cans.

What?! :rant::rant::rant:

Oh, well, I guess someone has to do it.
Send me some......:p

Clocker
03-07-2018, 06:20 PM
Irrelevant smoke and mirrors ... 55,000 factories and manufacturing plants closed, millions upon millions of blue collar jobs lost ... 43 straight years of trade deficits ... and you say I tap dance around irrelevant smoke and mirrors.

Smoke and mirrors like this:

... such as a $30,000 car with $500 of steel in it. A 20 % tariff adds $100 .... so on a $30,000 car a whopping $100 increase is little more than dollars and dimes.It is of little relevance to one consumer if that's all there is, but it affects a lot more consumer purchases. And it is a big deal to Ford Motors. Perhaps enough to build more cars in Mexico.

And like this:

Or the tens of thousands of factories closed and the 100s of thousands of blue collar job losses ... Around 85% of manufacturing jobs lost in the last couple of decades were lost to automation, not to trade. What has that got to do with the issue?

Or this:

how about the USA having 43 straight years of trade deficits since free trade accelerated in 1975.Number one, you, like The Donald, automatically assume that a trade deficit is a bad thing. It isn't. Number two, you assume that all of that comes from free trade. It doesn't.

Clocker
03-07-2018, 06:47 PM
You keep mentioning this silly example of W. imposing steel tariffs ... yet he recinded them and the trade deficit still grew larger, and more blue collar union guys still lost their jobs .... how come? The tariff couldn't have done all that since Bush rescinded them as you tell us.

Bush's tariffs caused the economic problems that killed 200K jobs. The tariffs and the job loss set other economic forces in motion that remained when the tariffs were gone. Like manufacturing jobs moved overseas. You don't get those jobs back by rescinding the tariffs, they are gone and the consequences remain. If you light a candle and it burns down, you don't get the candle back by blowing out the flame.

elysiantraveller
03-07-2018, 07:27 PM
Bush's tariffs caused the economic problems that killed 200K jobs. The tariffs and the job loss set other economic forces in motion that remained when the tariffs were gone. Like manufacturing jobs moved overseas. You don't get those jobs back by rescinding the tariffs, they are gone and the consequences remain. If you light a candle and it burns down, you don't get the candle back by blowing out the flame.

Except now countries with specific trade arrangements and similar national security concerns may be exempt...

FLOP

Clocker
03-07-2018, 07:32 PM
If factors of production are as mobile as traded goods, the case for free trade--that it benefits all countries--collapses. There is no known case for free trade if factors of production are as mobile as traded goods.

But can the factors of production ever become that mobile?

Certainly natural resources are factors of production. We buy coffee from Central America because it grows better there than in Idaho or Vermont.

Another aspect of that is when trade is differentiated into goods and services. While the US is running a YUGE trade deficit in goods, it is running a trade surplus in services. Are the factors of production of US services mobile, or could they ever be in the near future?

fast4522
03-07-2018, 07:42 PM
G.W. Bush and his pappy, Bush I, were unmitigated economic failures so anyone hitching their wagon to these stalwart, 'free' trade Republicans, simply needs their head examined.

The Bushies, true Republican and staunch 'free' traders by the way, both destroyed the US economy during their tenure and as a result, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were eventually elected as a result.

You keep mentioning this silly example of W. imposing steel tariffs ... yet he recinded them and the trade deficit still grew larger, and more blue collar union guys still lost their jobs .... how come? The tariff couldn't have done all that since Bush rescinded them as you tell us.

So much resentment by people who have moneys tucked away that no one can see, unlike the common man who can be dissected in minutes as to what he owns and has with a few keystrokes online. If the Builderburg Group is staunchly opposed to tariffs and fair trade it has to be good.

classhandicapper
03-07-2018, 07:43 PM
From what I gather, the reason for the steel tariffs is that China has been dumping steel into Canada and using NAFTA to get it into the US and bypass regulations that prevented them from dumping it straight into the US to begin with.

That is an example of why Trump is correct that all these deals have to be renegotiated. Everyone is cheating and we are the sucker at the table.

Economic theory is just bullshit.

I have all kinds of logical theories on horses, but if I'm losing my shirt on one of them I stop making the same kind of bets.

We are getting killed on free trade. That's a 100% certainty. We've been running massive trade deficits for decades.

Threatening or imposing tariffs could be a bad idea, but not if the end result is a better deal instead of a trade war. Let's see how it plays out first.

Clocker
03-07-2018, 07:48 PM
FLIP

Except now countries with specific trade arrangements and similar national security concerns may be exempt...

FLOP

You don't understand national security. It's not a flip-flop, it's a "carve-out". :D

Our armed forces consume over 3% of the steel used in this country Since only 72.5% of that steel comes from domestic sources, we have to insure that the military will always have the hardware they need. So we desperately need the 25% of our imports that come from Canada and Mexico.

And to get the "carve-out", they have to "cave-in" to The Donald's version of NAFTA.

Clocker
03-07-2018, 07:59 PM
From what I gather, the reason for the steel tariffs is that China has been dumping steel into Canada and using NAFTA to get it into the US and bypass regulations that prevented them from dumping it straight into the US to begin with.

The US domestic steel industry produces 72.5% of the steel we use. Our imports from Canada are 16% of the other 27.5%, or 4.4%. How much of that is proven Chinese dumping? Is it even worth the effort to stop? Don't we have bigger fish to fry than stopping people who are maliciously subsidizing our domestic production of goods?

upthecreek
03-08-2018, 12:37 PM
https://twitter.com/connellmcshane/status/971786648286629888

elysiantraveller
03-08-2018, 12:48 PM
Courtesy of Being Libertarian on Facebook...

Clocker
03-08-2018, 12:52 PM
TRUMP SAYS HE STILL LIKES ECONOMIC ADVISER GARY COHN, HE MIGHT COME BACK TO WHITE HOUSE

And the administration is waffling on the tariffs that Cohn opposed. Yesterday a possible "carve-out" of Canada and Mexico was announced.

CBS News ✔ @CBSNews (https://twitter.com/CBSNews) The White House says if Pres. Trump imposes tariffs on imported steel and aluminum, they “may not” apply to U.S. allies. @POTUS (https://twitter.com/POTUS) is expected to announce new policy as soon as today, even though a growing number of Republicans are urging him to reconsider http://cbsn.ws/2oWPQTg (https://t.co/BvhVFyDj9e)
5:16 AM - Mar 8, 2018 (https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/971721263784873984)

And now an announcement about the tariffs planned for today has been delayed.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/967851813360881664/N_UWDnWh_bigger.jpg TODAY ✔ @TODAYshow (https://twitter.com/TODAYshow)
A senior administration official tells @NBCNews (https://twitter.com/NBCNews) that President Trump’s announcement of a plan to impose new tariffs has been delayed
5:15 AM - Mar 8, 2018 (https://twitter.com/TODAYshow/status/971721070381359104)

Let's slow down here before we do something rational. :rolleyes:

https://hotair.com/archives/2018/03/08/wh-may-waive-tariffs-temporarily-canada-mexico/

PaceAdvantage
03-08-2018, 12:56 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/020/925/4dchesss.JPG

elysiantraveller
03-08-2018, 01:15 PM
Haha good one Mike!

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/trump-executive-order-memes-1-58919d2ad509c__605.gif

classhandicapper
03-08-2018, 01:27 PM
The US domestic steel industry produces 72.5% of the steel we use. Our imports from Canada are 16% of the other 27.5%, or 4.4%. How much of that is proven Chinese dumping? Is it even worth the effort to stop? Don't we have bigger fish to fry than stopping people who are maliciously subsidizing our domestic production of goods?

I don't know the answer. Cheating is never going to be for large amounts, but it can impact prices for an entire industry. In a commodity business you can only be as smart as your dumbest competitor (or in this case the smartest cheater)

Clocker
03-08-2018, 01:47 PM
Trump says Cohn can come back as long as he behaves and doesn't criticize The Donald about his pet projects, like tariffs. :D

The president said Cohn might have to come back in a different role, because “he’s not quite as strong on those tariffs as we want.”http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/377400-trump-cohn-could-return-to-the-white-house

Clocker
03-08-2018, 02:14 PM
To repeat an old saying, insanity is repeating the same action while expecting a different outcome.

The question remains, however, will the new tariffs help decrease the trade deficit? Probably not. So-called trade remedies, like tariffs and duties, seemingly haven’t slowed down imports of steel. Consider, the Commerce report notes that as of February 15, the United States already had 169 antidumping and countervailing duty orders in place on steel, with 25 ongoing investigations.

The proposed Trump tariffs would be applied to all, on top of what is already in place, which from a national security point of view—i.e., the reason for these new tariffs—paints a confusing picture. For example, Russia has an antidumping and a countervailing duty imposed on its exports. That’s a total of two trade sanctions, which compares with 18 for South Korea and 12 for Taiwan and Japan. Appropriately, however, China is facing 29 sanctions, the most of any exporter.

Prior significant actions to address steel imports using quotas and/or tariffs were taken under various statutory authorities by President George W. Bush, President William J. Clinton (three times), President George H. W. Bush, President Ronald W. Reagan (three times), President James E. Carter (twice), and President Richard M. Nixon, all at lower levels of import penetration than the present level, which is greater than 30 percent.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/trumps-tariff-proposal-violates-his-own-trade-doctrine/article/2011844

fast4522
03-08-2018, 02:55 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/020/925/4dchesss.JPG

Yet NO ONE recognizes this is who they are up against if they opposes him.
Unlike any other in modern day history.

elysiantraveller
03-08-2018, 03:43 PM
Yet NO ONE recognizes this is who they are up against if they opposes him.
Unlike any other in modern day history.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Mr. "I love Hispanics"

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/8794569472/hE2B7BD97/

You guys are morons...

fast4522
03-08-2018, 03:49 PM
It is true that Presidents pick winners and losers.

A year from now things will not change as to what column you guys fall into.

Clocker
03-08-2018, 03:55 PM
It is true that Presidents pick winners and losers.



And the winners are always his cronies and the losers are always the consumers.

Winners of the week look like Big Steel.

PaceAdvantage
03-08-2018, 03:57 PM
You guys are morons...Oh look..now you're one with mostpost and hcap...that's cool.

Love it when folks hurl the big general insult bomb at everyone...

Guess I should have called you a moron after Trump won.

elysiantraveller
03-08-2018, 04:03 PM
Oh look..now you're one with mostpost and hcap...that's cool.

Love it when folks hurl the big general insult bomb at everyone...

Guess I should have called you a moron after Trump won.

You could have... I took way worse around these parts.

Since then, with all the stuff I said way back... I kinda feel like a prophet. :cool:

PaceAdvantage
03-08-2018, 04:09 PM
You could have... I took way worse around these parts.

Since then, with all the stuff I said way back... I kinda feel like a prophet. :cool:Yeah, I don't know about that last part...me thinks you toot your own horn way too much and things don't always end up as you predict.

Someone needs to go back over your soothsaying with a fine tooth comb.

Clocker
03-08-2018, 04:15 PM
Yesterday, Peter Navarro, the mad scientist behind Trump's tariffs, announced that he was not interested in taking over Garry Cohn's job. Apparently in response to Navarro's statement, stocks spiked to session highs

Today it was reported that Navarro is running a stealth campaign for the job, and stocks took a hit.

It turns out that he is after all, and a report from Axios (https://www.axios.com/peter-navarro-wants-gary-cohns-job-terrifying-dc-9b8dbd4b-ba44-436a-a615-668405150ed0.html) claiming that Navarro is running a stealthy campaign to fill Cohn's old job had the opposite effect, helping spook stocks.

According to Axios, (https://www.axios.com/peter-navarro-wants-gary-cohns-job-terrifying-dc-9b8dbd4b-ba44-436a-a615-668405150ed0.html) "publicly, Navarro has been coy, telling Bloomberg TV he's not in the running for the job. But privately, the hardcore trade adviser is all in for the job" which in turn has "terrified" D.C.As reported yesterday (https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/navarro-says-not-list-replace-gary-cohn-stocks-jump), stocks spiked in the middle of the day when BBG first reported that Navarro had no "Cohn" career intentions.

"Sources familiar with Navarro's thinking" told Axios (https://www.axios.com/peter-navarro-wants-gary-cohns-job-terrifying-dc-9b8dbd4b-ba44-436a-a615-668405150ed0.html) there are too many people inside the White House who oppose the president's agenda - especially on trade, and the president would like to remedy this.

Cohn reportedly tried to undercut Navarro at every turn, telling colleagues that Navarro "had no idea what he was doing, no grasp of economics, and constantly "lied to the president."
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/washington-terrified-navarro-said-want-gary-cohns-job-after-all

PaceAdvantage
03-08-2018, 04:55 PM
Yesterday, Peter Navarro, the mad scientist behind Trump's tariffs, announced that he was not interested in taking over Garry Cohn's job. Apparently in response to Navarro's statement, stocks spiked to session highs

Today it was reported that Navarro is running a stealth campaign for the job, and stocks took a hit.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-08/washington-terrified-navarro-said-want-gary-cohns-job-after-allOn my screen the S&P is a good 10 points or so higher than the close of yesterday....I guess "the word" has changed again...:eek:

Clocker
03-08-2018, 05:12 PM
On my screen the S&P is a good 10 points or so higher than the close of yesterday....I guess "the word" has changed again...:eek:

The article was written today at 1PM Eastern. The Word changes often these days. It's fun to see how little it takes to change it.

elysiantraveller
03-08-2018, 05:21 PM
Yeah, I don't know about that last part...me thinks you toot your own horn way too much and things don't always end up as you predict.

Someone needs to go back over your soothsaying with a fine tooth comb.

Feel free...

I was "Mr. Never Right" remember?

classhandicapper
03-08-2018, 08:59 PM
Elon Musk has more or less taken the same position I have. He's against tariffs in a general sense but in favor of using them now to try to pressure countries that are not trading with us in a fair manner into leveling an unfair playing field.

Free trade has been an abomination for the US. We don't even have free and fair trade. We are getting screwed. The solution cannot be more of the same. That's the definition of insanity.


http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/03/08/elon-musk-goes-on-twitter-tirade-over-trump-tariffs.html

reckless
03-08-2018, 09:09 PM
Dow Jones up 94 today and approaching 25,000.

Three straight days on how Trump's tariffs will derail the economy and the Trump bull market.

All the networks, even Fox Business, reported how Trump's mistaken trade policy and steel tariffs are bad, bad, bad... and how it will destroy the economy.

Some jerk even mentioned W. Bush and his tariffs -- anyone on TV that mentions W. in an serious discussion is a nitwit. But then, all the Trump haters in the GOP advisor world are Bushies -- and nitwits.

Add to this is the Cohn quitting non-issue and how Trump's White House is in shambles.

YET despite all the experts denouncing Trump and his steel tariffs, the Dow Jones was up 94 today, kissing up to 25,000, which this market will run right through it, especially after the Jobs Report coming out.

Gary Cohn ...?? Who was that dilettante again?

Tom
03-08-2018, 09:22 PM
All this jiberish about the Dow tanking was nonsense coming from pure desperation on the part of dems who have nothing of substance anymore. The lowest under Trump is how much higher than the highest under 0bama?:pound:

elysiantraveller
03-08-2018, 09:31 PM
Dow Jones up 94 today and approaching 25,000.

Three straight days on how Trump's tariffs will derail the economy and the Trump bull market.

All the networks, even Fox Business, reported how Trump's mistaken trade policy and steel tariffs are bad, bad, bad... and how it will destroy the economy.

Some jerk even mentioned W. Bush and his tariffs -- anyone on TV that mentions W. in an serious discussion is a nitwit. But then, all the Trump haters in the GOP advisor world are Bushies -- and nitwits.

Add to this is the Cohn quitting non-issue and how Trump's White House is in shambles.

YET despite all the experts denouncing Trump and his steel tariffs, the Dow Jones was up 94 today, kissing up to 25,000, which this market will run right through it, especially after the Jobs Report coming out.

Gary Cohn ...?? Who was that dilettante again?

Who here said the Dow would tank?

Clocker
03-08-2018, 09:47 PM
Who here said the Dow would tank?

Let's not spoil a good rant with facts. :rolleyes:

elysiantraveller
03-08-2018, 10:34 PM
Let's not spoil a good rant with facts. :rolleyes:

A week ago it was across the board. Then it was exemptions for our leading importers. Now it's them as well as allies that apply for exemption.

So I have this vice of drinking Monster energy drinks. I drink one or two a day and that's the only form of caffeine I get. If I put a ban on all caffeine in my house but gave Monster Energy an exemption... did I really do anything? :confused:

A Trump supporter would say yes...

Clocker
03-08-2018, 10:43 PM
A week ago it was across the board. Then it was exemptions for our leading importers. Now it's them as well as allies that apply for exemption.

So I have this vice of drinking Monster energy drinks. I drink one or two a day and that's the only form of caffeine I get. If I put a ban on all caffeine in my house but gave Monster Energy an exemption... did I really do anything? :confused:

A Trump supporter would say yes...

There you go with that reality thing again. This is show business, baby, image is everything. :popcorn:

mrhorseplayer
03-08-2018, 10:48 PM
could we (USA) use the exemption to get other countries to lower our tariffs?

reckless
03-08-2018, 11:58 PM
Who here said the Dow would tank?

I know of 2-3 times people on PA have said as much.

You need to get out of the hate reality closet more often and venture into other rooms on PA.

You just might learn a thing or two but then again you might not considering all that time you spend convincing yourself that you actually contribute something useful around here.

elysiantraveller
03-09-2018, 12:09 AM
I know of 2-3 times people on PA have said as much.

You need to get out of the hate reality closet more often and venture into other rooms on PA.

You just might learn a thing or two but then again you might not considering all that time you spend convincing yourself that you actually contribute something useful around here.

If we put a tariff on steel imports but then give an exemption to our largest importers did we really do anything? Yes or no?

Was this really about #MAGA or giving lip service to a campaign promise?

reckless
03-09-2018, 12:10 AM
Let's not spoil a good rant with facts. :rolleyes:

Ah, another juvenile snark coming from someone whose contribution stock these past few years has cratered from being a simple know-nothing who hid out in the deep dark corners of PA shooting spit-balls while not adding a single original thought to someone who has become a laughingstock with empty analysis and 'thought'(?).

But, oh those rolling eyes ... very becoming I may say.

I can't wait until tomorrow because Trump gets better every day.

Tom
03-09-2018, 12:11 AM
Let's not spoil a good rant with facts. :rolleyes:

H4C brought that up with one of his cartoons.
I believe FanDan alluded to it as well.

Tom
03-09-2018, 12:12 AM
could we (USA) use the exemption to get other countries to lower our tariffs?

Ah...the Art of the Deal?

mrhorseplayer
03-09-2018, 12:30 AM
Ah, another juvenile snark coming from someone whose contribution stock these past few years has cratered from being a simple know-nothing who hid out in the deep dark corners of PA shooting spit-balls while not adding a single original thought to someone who has become a laughingstock with empty analysis and 'thought'(?).

But, oh those rolling eyes ... very becoming I may say.

I can't wait until tomorrow because Trump gets better every day.



LOL oh those rolling eyes

these eyesthese eyes are rolling
these eyes have seen a lot of post
now they've seen a lot of posted facts in here
these eyes are rolling
like the guess who lol

reckless
03-09-2018, 01:03 PM
WSJ has story that Goldman Sachs chair, Lloyd Blankfein, may leave that post at the end of the year.

There's a paywall on this site so I won't provide the link.

Maybe Gary Cohn ... remember him?? ... will be the one to replace him. Quite possible.

Clocker
03-10-2018, 11:49 PM
Ah, another juvenile snark coming from someone whose contribution stock these past few years has cratered from being a simple know-nothing who hid out in the deep dark corners of PA shooting spit-balls while not adding a single original thought to someone who has become a laughingstock with empty analysis and 'thought'(?).



A post The Donald would approve of, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

Try for at least a little objective content next time. :cool:

reckless
03-14-2018, 07:13 PM
A post The Donald would approve of, "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing".

Try for at least a little objective content next time. :cool:


Missed this the first time. Why should I be objective?

Oh yeah, there are not enough Trump haters on here, I guess.

reckless
03-14-2018, 07:15 PM
Looks like Larry Kudlow will replace the now forgotten Gary cohn.

Not a good choice, imo. Kudlow loudly called for China to be granted favored nation status.