The ugly underside of our favorite sport...

[Mulerider]

I would like to preface this post by disclosing that I'm a lifelong hunter, not particularly squeamish but fully committed to the humane dispatch of any animal; I also eat what I kill, and won't kill what I won't eat.

With that out of the way, most of us are aware that racehorses that fail to perform satisfactorily on the track or show a profit to its connections may face unpleasant futures.

Far too many young, healthy thoroughbreds are consigned to the slaughterhouse pipeline daily, guilty of no offense other than low speed figures. The slaughter pipeline begins with the sale of the horse either at auction, where it is purchased by a kill buyer, or directly to the kill buyer himself. Most U.S. tracks have written policies prohibiting the knowing sale of a racehorse to a kill buyer, complete with sanctions for the owner or trainer. Yet many tracks ignore enforcement of their own rules. (Looking straight at you, Delta Downs/Boyd Gaming.)

The second stop in the pipeline is the so-called "kill lot," a holding facility that collects horses until a full trailerload is possible. These kill lots offer inadequate food, shelter, and water, and no attempt is made to segregate the weak from the strong, the grown from the fillies and colts. The stronger horses eat, the weaker ones don't. Often the horses are consigned to stand in mud up to their knees, barely able to move. Stressed-out horses often damage each other, sometimes seriously, through bites or kicks; the victims receive no treatment.

The final step is inside a packed trailer for hundreds of miles to the slaughterhouse itself. There are no active horse slaughterhouses in the U.S., but it is still legal to export horses for slaughter to Canada and Mexico. Canada has regulations in place to help ensure that slaughter methods are humane, to the extent that is possible in such circumstances. Mexico has regulations too, but they are not enforced. And Mexico is where the majority of our discarded racehorses end up.

There is legislation pending in Congress that would prohibit the export of horses for slaughter. The House version is HR 113. The Senate version is S1706. Both bills are designated the SAFE act; officially the purpose of the bill is to prevent horse meat from being used for human consumption due to the drugs typically administered to horses. Regardless of Act's intent, it will serve the dual purpose of shutting down the slaughter pipeline.

I'm fully aware that there are 20,000 thoroughbreds foaled annually, and that only a fraction of them will be successful on the track. Fair enough. But the industry needs to start a conversation about the treatment and ultimate futures of the equine athletes that don't quite measure up.

The following was written by a person who I believe is not a native English-speaking person. I made a couple of punctuation and grammatical corrections, but nothing whatsoever to add or detract from the content.

A brief description of a horse slaughterhouse in Mexico: (https://www.change.org/p/extreme-cruelty-to-horses-at-mercado-san-bernabe-enforce-existing-federal-laws-in-mexico)

“… The horse shakes her head frantically when the door of the killing box is closed and trapped within it. A worker buries, in her back and around her neck, a small, sharp knife, seven, eight, nine times. She, with her eyes wide, frantically lowers and raises her head while the worker stabs her again and again. On the tenth stroke of the knife she falls to the ground, bloodied and paralyzed, but still alive. She lays there for two minutes before being hoisted by her leg and lifted into the air, hung
upside down to be bled, slaughtered in the midst of terrible pain, fully conscious and terrified … “

It is my understanding that the "killing box" is merely a narrow pipe chute, like all horse vets use. And that being an assembly line operation, the next horse in line is watching what is happening in front of him.

Respectfully, I ask your support for the pending legislation, if you're so inclined. A quick email or phone call, asking that the bills be brought to the floor and stating your position, would help.

Congressional contacts by zip code (https://whoismyrepresentative.com/)

Thank you, and sorry for the long post.

Mule

[PaceAdvantage]

Pretty sickening stuff, but something that needs to be presented front and center to everyone involved if successful action is to be taken.

[ultracapper]

Unreal. Just sickening. I want to post something and I don't even know what to say.

[Vinnie]

What a compelling and poignant post. As horrible as it is to read such things, thank you so much for your post Mulerider.

[cutchemist42]

Yep, it is a part of something I struggle with, so I do quite a lot of donations to the various rescues. I would say 60% of my overall charity is towards horse rescues.

Have heard that about 40% of the annual foal crop goes to slaughter, but part of me recognizes not every thoroughbred born is intended for racing. Some are born to be food. i think the stat is that 1-in-8 horses that actually end up racing go to slaughter.

Its also a problem for all horse sports, thoroughbreds aren't the only horses going to slaughter. There are thoroughbreds going to slaughter that come from other disciplines as well.

I also follow a lot of what Alex Brown says about it as well as read his book Missionville which is basically about life at Penn National.

Here's a good interview.

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/why-horse-slaughter-pipeline-vital-so-many-racetracks-and-how-can-change/

them? They end up in the slaughter pipeline. It’s the way it is.

People say, ‘we have all these rescues now, you don’t need to do that.’ But that’s not true. There’s not enough room in a rescue to take all these Thoroughbreds. And, unfortunately, a lot of these Thoroughbreds are broken down because of a claiming system that allowed that to happen. They can’t re-home a lot of them. They need to go to a sanctuary, where they can retire forever, and when they’re 5 or 6 years old, that’s a lot of time.

Yours is an unflinching look at the racing industry, but in many respects, you paint a sympathetic picture of many of the people working in it - especially those scrabbling to make a living within the sport. When I read the book, I was reminded of something owner Maggi Moss once told me, about how racing could be headed back to its ‘Sport of Kings’ roots, when only those with large disposable incomes could afford to own racehorses.

When you live paycheck to paycheck, it encourages bad behavior by some. You’ve got to do right by you and your family. Sometimes, that’s by doing wrong in other things. But that’s an interesting debate: should horse racing be an elitist sport or not? You could argue that’s what it is in this country, in the UK. Here, horseracing is a hobby. The majority of people will not make money out of racing in the UK, not as owners. No way.

[VigorsTheGrey]

All in the pursuit of livelihoods for horsemen. Profits for businessmen. Entertainment for players. Humans are fleshy balls of contradictions...liberty, equality, fraternity, faith, hope and love...and KILL KILL KILL...you see these THINGS (animals) are not really FEELING beings are they...?

Neither are cows, pigs, chickens, fish...Horses are not sentient beings are they...? Horses are not children of god like the rest of mankind....there is a big difference...sure just keep telling ourselves the same ol stories...while we wolf another filet mignon down...the human culture is ANIMAL HELL, face it...and we are their tormentors...slaughterhouses are worse than nazi and soviet concentration camps...

...I personally cannot face the truth of it..I like my steaks as much as the other guy....it’s all about exploitation, not even survival for mankind anymore...man is a vicious animal despite all the culture, the rationalizations...

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Horse racing is a cruel and shrewd business even at its very greatest of levels.

It is a tough business in which very few make money, yet billions are spent annually.

One of my personal favorite tracks to wager upon has been getting lambasted lately due to the sending of numerous horses to these kill lots. Anybody immune to bottom level racing tries to shy away, or shake an angry finger at such practices.

However at these bottom level tracks, there are real people trying to scratch out a living. Most don't make much of a living at all, and have to make tough decisions such as getting what they can from the horses they have.

We'll never hear of the superstars of the sport with such practices, as they simply shelve off their lesser horses by dropping them so far down the claiming ranks that they become somebody elses's problem. And those horses eventually end up at tracks like Delta Downs, Retama Park, Turf Paradise, Fonner Park, what have you.

It isn't cheap to even own, train, feed, and run horses at the very bottom of levels. Vet fees, vaccinations, food, jockey fees, entrance fees, simple day to day costs. What do you do with a barn of 20 horses in which the majority of them are running in $20K or less races? Quit, or try to make ends meet as best you can?

When you have a $4K claimer that can't hit the board and will never be claimed with zero breeding value, what are you supposed to do as an owner? Keep eating the cost? Make him a family pet? You can only have so many horse pets before they break you as well.

As with most problems, it all starts at the top, and then the shit rolls downhill.

[Mulerider]

LDH, I have a strong hunch you're talking about Delta, and the kill lot is Thompson's in Pritkin, La.

Two days ago yet another Delta horse showed up at Thompson's kill lot. It was a 4-year-old named ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY, with two lifetime starts. He last raced at Delta on Jan. 13 and finished 4/10. His last workout was on Jan. 26.

Equibase:
Owner: Ella Williams
Trainer: George Williams

I'm pretty sure that Thompson's gave somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$500 for the horse.

A rescue organization (the same one that rescued 11 Delta horses from Thompson's in January) was made aware of the situation, and contacted Thompson's today to inquire about the "bail" needed to acquire the horse. They were promptly told the horse would cost them $1,250 and that the money must be received by 5 p.m. this Sunday, as that's when ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY is scheduled to ship to slaughter.

I emailed Delta yesterday to notify them about a possible violation of their no-slaughter policy. I do not expect a reply from Delta; they haven't replied to one yet. Which begs the question: why pretend to have a policy if you're not going to attempt to enforce it? Just come right out and say it: we don't give a rat's ass about the horses. I'd respect them more if they were honest about it.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

LDH, I have a strong hunch you're talking about Delta, and the kill lot is Thompson's in Pritkin, La.

Two days ago yet another Delta horse showed up at Thompson's kill lot. It was a 4-year-old named ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY, with two lifetime starts. He last raced at Delta on Jan. 13 and finished 4/10. His last workout was on Jan. 26.

Equibase:
Owner: Ella Williams
Trainer: George Williams

I'm pretty sure that Thompson's gave somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$500 for the horse.

A rescue organization (the same one that rescued 11 Delta horses from Thompson's in January) was made aware of the situation, and contacted Thompson's today to inquire about the "bail" needed to acquire the horse. They were promptly told the horse would cost them $1,250 and that the money must be received by 5 p.m. this Sunday, as that's when ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY is scheduled to ship to slaughter.

I emailed Delta yesterday to notify them about a possible violation of their no-slaughter policy. I do not expect a reply from Delta; they've haven't replied to one yet. Which begs the question: why pretend to have a policy if you're not going to attempt to enforce it? Just come right out and say it: we don't give a rat's ass about the horses. I'd respect them more if they were honest about it.

What would you say if they needed the $300 to buy groceries for their children?

While I'm just making that up, and have no idea who these two are, it is a very real situation at tracks like Delta.

They aren't running on 8, 7, or even 6 figure budgets, many are just trying to make ends meet from month to month.

And no, I don't want to excuse the practice, but lets also realize why it is happening.

[thaskalos]

LDH, I have a strong hunch you're talking about Delta, and the kill lot is Thompson's in Pritkin, La.

Two days ago yet another Delta horse showed up at Thompson's kill lot. It was a 4-year-old named ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY, with two lifetime starts. He last raced at Delta on Jan. 13 and finished 4/10. His last workout was on Jan. 26.

Equibase:
Owner: Ella Williams
Trainer: George Williams

I'm pretty sure that Thompson's gave somewhere in the neighborhood of $300-$500 for the horse.

A rescue organization (the same one that rescued 11 Delta horses from Thompson's in January) was made aware of the situation, and contacted Thompson's today to inquire about the "bail" needed to acquire the horse. They were promptly told the horse would cost them $1,250 and that the money must be received by 5 p.m. this Sunday, as that's when ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY is scheduled to ship to slaughter.

I emailed Delta yesterday to notify them about a possible violation of their no-slaughter policy. I do not expect a reply from Delta; they haven't replied to one yet. Which begs the question: why pretend to have a policy if you're not going to attempt to enforce it? Just come right out and say it: we don't give a rat's ass about the horses. I'd respect them more if they were honest about it.

So...the slaughterhouse paid $300-$500 for the doomed horse...but they wanted $1,250 from the rescue organization. Nice people to do business with. :ThmbUp:

[Mulerider]

What would you say if they needed the $300 to buy groceries for their children?



If they were in such dire straits, I would suggest to them that they contact one of the many rescue organizations directly, and explain their financial situation. The rescues would prefer that they do that. Cut out the a**hole middleman like Thompson, who plays the emotional card on his Facebook page to inflate the price. These rescue organizations do a pretty fine job of finding homes for these horses.

That January cluster was a huge black eye for Delta, as some pretty big names in the industry donated to rescue those horses: Gary Stevens, Mike Smith, Mattress Mack, Ahmed Zayat, etc. One would think Delta would want to prevent another such PR disaster, but that's apparently not the case. The horses just keep showing up at Thompson's, an unpleasant stop on their way to Mexico.

[PointGiven]

I am not justifying races horses at slaughter by saying yearly over 120,00 American horses are sent to slaughter. That's the low end. Quick math tells you even if every one of the 20,000 born each year are sent ( and we know that doesn't happen) it's not 10%. Racing does not keep the slaughter house doors open. Yet every time horse slaughter is mentioned in public life, we are pointed to. We have a perception problem. This hurts new growth/ more money.

We have other problems. Accessibility, availability, to name a few. These hurt growth which in turn means money. And like most problems, it takes money. But those aren't being addressed. Everyone wants their little fiefdoms.

Until they are, horses will keep paying with their lives.

[thaskalos]

If they were in such dire straits, I would suggest to them that they contact one of the many rescue organizations directly, and explain their financial situation. The rescues would prefer that they do that. Cut out the a**hole middleman like Thompson, who plays the emotional card on his Facebook page to inflate the price. These rescue organizations do a pretty fine job of finding homes for these horses.

That January cluster was a huge black eye for Delta, as some pretty big names in the industry donated to rescue those horses: Gary Stevens, Mike Smith, Mattress Mack, Ahmed Zayat, etc. One would think Delta would want to prevent another such PR disaster, but that's apparently not the case. The horses just keep showing up at Thompson's.

It wasn't such a black eye for Delta...because incidents like these seldom get reported. If it weren't for you...we'd never hear about any of this. Very sad...

[VigorsTheGrey]

So...the slaughterhouse paid $300-$500 for the doomed horse...but they wanted $1,250 from the rescue organization. Nice people to do business with. :ThmbUp:
The price might have something to do with how much they get from the slaughterhouse per pound of horse...I wonder what the going rate is on something of this nature, or if it done by the ton/ trailer load...? Once horses are in the kill cue, l’m sure that they are looked upon as one would with other livestock commodity...still $1250 seems like a lot to want/ ask in this situation...agree with you.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I wonder what the actual end-use and end-users are...and how many total per year...it doesn’t seem like something that much money could be made, given the numbers compared to something like cattle meat processing numbers...I wonder if horse meat is considered a delicacy and sold high-end to Asians or something or if the end-product price is lower than beef...?

Is it possible to dry up the demand somehow or just make horse products banned internationally?

[PointGiven]

I don't believe they are treated the same, thus the horrible conditions, and lack of food like say cattle on a feed lot. Simply because they have so little in them, they are not worth spending on feed.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I don't believe they are treated the same, thus the horrible conditions, and lack of food like say cattle on a feed lot. Simply because they have so little in them, they are not worth spending on feed.

So maybe it really is the worst case with horse meat being sold bottom dollar...one old timer at Los Al told me that when horses die at the track, they often become sustenance for wild animals like big cats in zoos...so it would be interesting to know what the end-user path really is after they are processed in Mexico and Canada....? Maybe the meat gets sold back to American Zoos, or other Zoos worldwide...it is probably not wasted in any event...more sad facts of life...

[Lemon Drop Husker]

I wonder what the actual end-use and end-users are...and how many total per year...it doesn’t seem like something that much money could be made, given the numbers compared to something like cattle meat processing numbers...I wonder if horse meat is considered a delicacy and sold high-end to Asians or something or if the end-product price is lower than beef...?

Is it possible to dry up the demand somehow or just make horse products banned internationally?

I'd wager $5,000 that you have eaten horse meat at some point in your life.

While I can't prove it, I feel extremely comfortable making that statement.

[VigorsTheGrey]

I'd wager $5,000 that you have eaten horse meat at some point in your life.

While I can't prove it, I feel extremely comfortable making that statement.

I agree with you...and not making light of things here but I feel certain as well that horse meat is consumed by humans regularly in other countries mainly...there is more than some truth of why ‘burritos” are called that after “burro” no doubt...it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that once horses are slaughtered in Mexico that fresh meat is just sold locally in border towns, would it you...?

[Mulerider]

I...it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that once horses are slaughtered in Mexico that fresh meat is just sold locally in border towns, would it you...?

Vigors, Mexico slaughtered 128,000 horses in 2016, the vast majority for export. The consumption of horse meat is not a normal cultural practice in Mexico, though I'm sure there's some.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Vigors, Mexico slaughtered 128,000 horses in 2016, the vast majority for export. The consumption of horse meat is not a normal cultural practice in Mexico, though I'm sure there's some.

So who are they exporting it to and for what purpose...? A good portion might be for Zoos no...?

[Lemon Drop Husker]

So who are they exporting it to and for what purpose...? A good portion might be for Zoos no...?

Zoos. Pet food. Fast food restaurants.

[Mulerider]

So who are they exporting it to and for what purpose...? A good portion might be for Zoos no...?

No, I think it's for human consumption. I'm no expert on the horse meat business, but there's this:

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/mexican-horse-meat-a-gourmet-product/

The article lists the some of the customers as "Russia, Hong Kong, Egypt, Japan, Vietnam, Kazakhstan and Belgium."

I believe, though, that the EU has banned Mexican horse imports due to the high level of drugs.

[cj]

Horse was definitely on the menu in Belgium when I lived there, restaurants and supermarkets alike.

[VigorsTheGrey]

No, I think it's for human consumption. I'm no expert on the horse meat business, but there's this:

https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/mexican-horse-meat-a-gourmet-product/

The article lists the some of the customers as "Russia, Hong Kong, Egypt, Japan, Vietnam, Kazakhstan and Belgium."

I believe, though, that the EU has banned Mexican horse imports due to the high level of drugs.

This topic has a very deep rabbit hole. The USA in 2017 produced 12 million metric tons of red meat for human consumption, 20% of the world total. This issue is: why should we feel any different about horses than cattle? This has alway been a very difficult issue for me...I’m not a vegetarian, but I can really understand why some folks are...

[PointGiven]

As a society we have decided what is acceptable and what isn't. cows yes, cats no.

Horses are something we have said loud and clear we do not want to see on or menus and in our markets.

The rabbit hole goes the other way as well. Whole isles in stores are devoted to products to rid us of vermin and bugs.

Anyone who has horses usually goes to great lengths to avoid or dispatch opossums.

I to am a meat eater that while it isn't for me, I get vegetarian. Commercial farming leaves a lot to be desired. So does the system in general. Even if you think you are making good choices, you often aren't.

[thaskalos]

This topic has a very deep rabbit hole. The USA in 2017 produced 12 million metric tons of red meat for human consumption, 20% of the world total. This issue is: why should we feel any different about horses than cattle? This has alway been a very difficult issue for me...I’m not a vegetarian, but I can really understand why some folks are...

We want to have our cake...and eat it too. We support the meat-producing industry, even though we know how horribly the animals are treated before and during slaughter...but we like thinking that we are sensitive "animal-lovers". And we patronize the horse racing industry, even though we are well-aware of the plight of the horses during their racing careers and afterwards...but we declare our "admiration" for these majestic animals, and we are enraged whenever we see an article such as the one originating this thread.

We are against the torture of these animals...and we try to ignore the fact that these atrocities wouldn't occur without our "support".

[Mulerider]

This topic has a very deep rabbit hole. The USA in 2017 produced 12 million metric tons of red meat for human consumption, 20% of the world total. This issue is: why should we feel any different about horses than cattle? This has alway been a very difficult issue for me...I’m not a vegetarian, but I can really understand why some folks are...

A cow, pig, or goat in the U.S. is slaughtered much more humanely than a horse in Mexico. And that's the problem I have with this whole business.

I suspect, but have no proof, that Mexican horse slaughterhouses, by their barbaric methods, are simply accommodating their largest customers. Asian horse meat consumers believe that an adrenaline rush before the death of an animal improves the flavor of the meat. You should read how cats are slaughtered in China. It's worse than the horse treatment in Mexico.

[VigorsTheGrey]

We want to have our cake...and eat it too. We support the meat-producing industry, even though we know how horribly the animals are treated before and during slaughter...but we like thinking that we are sensitive "animal-lovers". And we patronize the horse racing industry, even though we are well-aware of the plight of the horses during their racing careers and afterwards...but we declare our "admiration" for these majestic animals, and we are enraged whenever we see an article such as the one originating this thread.

We are against the torture of these animals...and we try to ignore the fact that these atrocities wouldn't occur without our "support".
There is no rational reason for our current treatment of livestock...there REALLY are no existential differences between the species that would warrant denying them the same Bill of Rights that we enjoy...I suspect that our bellies bias our brains in this matter...years from now, maybe centuries, our descendants will view our current actions as atrocious, and will asked themselves “how could THEY ever have thought this way...”

[Mulerider]

UPDATE 2/24/18:

ALECIA'SLITTLEBOY was rescued from Thompson's kill lot this morning, via a donation from a race horse owner named Matt Schera. Mr. Schera was alerted to the situation by Dina Alborano, who runs the rescue organization www.icareihelp.com, and who was responsible for the rescue of the Delta horses in January.

A quick Equibase search reveals that Mr. Schera is a multiple graded stakes winning owner, the last being the 2017 San Marcos Stakes (G2) with his horse Isotherm.

Well done, Mr. Schera.

[thaskalos]

Great News!

Don't organizations like icareihelp deserve a little of that slots-generated money?

[Mulerider]

Great News!

Don't organizations like icareihelp deserve a little of that slots-generated money?

Yes. And if it were done fairly and proportionately, Boyd Gaming would have to reprogram its slots at Delta for a higher "takeout" to cover their rescue obligations.

On her Twitter page Ms. Alborano is advocating a national "de-registration" program for all thoroughbreds coming off the track, saying that policy would help a lot. I confess I don't understand that issue.

https://twitter.com/icareihelp?lang=en

[thaskalos]

Yes. And if it were done fairly and proportionately, Boyd Gaming would have to reprogram its slots at Delta for a higher "takeout" to cover their rescue obligations.

On her Twitter page Ms. Alborano is advocating a national "de-registration" program for all thoroughbreds coming off the track, saying that policy would help a lot. I confess I don't understand that issue.

https://twitter.com/icareihelp?lang=en

How much money goes uncollected by bettors every year at the racetracks across the country? And, how much money in breakage is unfairly collected that rightfully belongs to the bettors? If the horse racing industry really had a conscience...then a petition would be made to allocate all these funds for the benefit of these unfortunate animals. This money isn't the track's, nor the state's. It belongs to the PLAYERS...and it should be put to better use than it is now. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

[Tom]

Great News!

Don't organizations like icareihelp deserve a little of that slots-generated money?


Yes.
Far more so than any track does.
And the tracks should be kicking in too, say, a a 2% fee from every MSW race run, and 5% from every maiden claimer.

[DGroundhog]

How much money goes uncollected by bettors every year at the racetracks across the country? And, how much money in breakage is unfairly collected that rightfully belongs to the bettors? If the horse racing industry really had a conscience...then a petition would be made to allocate all these funds for the benefit of these unfortunate animals. This money isn't the track's, nor the state's. It belongs to the PLAYERS...and it should be put to better use than it is now. :ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

What racing rule or law states it belongs to the PLAYERS?

[Tom]

What racing rule or law states it belongs to the PLAYERS?



The players say so - you know the CUSTOMERS.
The people that put it in the pools in the first place.
You thought it grew on trees?

[thaskalos]

What racing rule or law states it belongs to the PLAYERS?

Yes...you are right. We have great rules and laws in this game. :ThmbUp:

[DGroundhog]

No, I know that there are rules and laws in place that specifically designate who has ownership of those monies.

I was curious what rule or law stated it belonged to the players.

[thaskalos]

No, I know that there are rules and laws in place that specifically designate who has ownership of those monies.

I was curious what rule or law stated it belonged to the players.

Do you know how "those monies" are currently used? Wouldn't it be better if they were used to fund the "retirements" of these horses?

[DGroundhog]

It is different for every track. I know of one track that will honor any outs ticket from the day they opened if it has not been cashed. In that case, it could be argued that all the uncashed money is still available for the players with winning tickets - even though it is very rare a ticket older than a couple of years will ever get brought in for redemption.

Everyone feels bad for the horses who get hurt or don't have what it takes to run. We also feel bad for the jockeys that get hurt and don't have adequate insurance to cover their bills.

It is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'.

[thaskalos]

It is different for every track. I know of one track that will honor any outs ticket from the day they opened if it has not been cashed. In that case, it could be argued that all the uncashed money is still available for the players with winning tickets - even though it is very rare a ticket older than a couple of years will ever get brought in for redemption.

Everyone feels bad for the horses who get hurt or don't have what it takes to run. We also feel bad for the jockeys that get hurt and don't have adequate insurance to cover their bills.

It is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'.

The horseplayer isn't saying "somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me". The horseplayer pays for EVERYTHING!

[Andy Asaro]

If everyone stopped betting on horse racing it seems like a lot of problems would be solved including this one.

[DGroundhog]

The horseplayer isn't saying "somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me". The horseplayer pays for EVERYTHING!

One way of looking at it - but you are using selective reasoning.

Who paid you? Are they then paying for everything? Who paid them?

[cutchemist42]

So...the slaughterhouse paid $300-$500 for the doomed horse...but they wanted $1,250 from the rescue organization. Nice people to do business with. :ThmbUp:

Yeah the kill lots really tug at the heart of the rescue people. Its a scummy practise.

Anyway, even if a horse of any breed is bred from the start to only be food, the actual slaughter and transportation of horses compared to other animals is horrific. I mean, at least design carriers for horses instead of using cattle trailers.

[thaskalos]

One way of looking at it - but you are using selective reasoning.

Who paid you? Are they then paying for everything? Who paid them?

I can't see your point in this thread. If something needs to be done to stop the shameful practice of shipping these racehorses to Mexico by the thousands...then, who in your opinion should initiate this move...and who should PAY for it?

Or do we just leave things as they are?

[DGroundhog]

I can't see your point in this thread. If something needs to be done to stop the shameful practice of shipping these racehorses to Mexico by the thousands...then, who in your opinion should initiate this move...and who should PAY for it?

Or do we just leave things as they are?

I'm not sure there IS a solution to that. There is only a limited number of uses for a race horse. Even if you donate to an organization that rescues race horses they won't all be rescued. You can't just endlessly ship them all off to a nice grassy retirement farm.

If I were forced to present a solution to the problem I would place a limit on the number of horses that can be bred in a given year. Only breed enough horses that can be placed into use and retirement.

Of course, that would significantly harm the industry as a whole - but at least we could potentially eliminate the problem.

[thaskalos]

I'm not sure there IS a solution to that. There is only a limited number of uses for a race horse. Even if you donate to an organization that rescues race horses they won't all be rescued. You can't just endlessly ship them all off to a nice grassy retirement farm.

If I were forced to present a solution to the problem I would place a limit on the number of horses that can be bred in a given year. Only breed enough horses that can be placed into use and retirement.

Of course, that would significantly harm the industry as a whole - but at least we could potentially eliminate the problem.

Fine...but you said earlier that it is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'. All this "new money" has come into this sport via the racinos that the racetracks are now operating...and no move has yet been made to "improve the product" in any way. If something is to be done for the horse-slaughter problem, who should initiate it...and who should pay for it?

I pointed to the breakage and to the uncashed tickets, because these are funds that are WRONGFULLY taken away from the bettors...and you were quick to point out to me that these monies are taken away from the players "legally". Who pays to help with the horse-slaughter problem then? Should the takeout go up a few more points...so the problem could be aleviated without the racing industry having to directly pay for it?

[DGroundhog]

Fine...but you said earlier that it is easy to say 'somebody should pay for that, but it shouldn't be me'. All this "new money" has come into this sport via the racinos that the racetracks are now operating...and no move has yet been made to "improve the product" in any way. If something is to be done for the horse-slaughter problem, who should initiate it...and who should pay for it?

I pointed to the breakage and to the uncashed tickets, because these are funds that are WRONGFULLY taken away from the bettors...and you were quick to point out to me that these monies are taken away from the players "legally". Who pays to help with the horse-slaughter problem then? Should the takeout go up a few more points...so the problem could be aleviated without the racing industry having to directly pay for it?

If I were to institute my example of limiting the breeding you would need to purchase a license to breed a thoroughbred. Most of that money would go to the 'rescue program' (overhead and salaries would be paid - remainder to the rescue program).

Any remaining money needed to cover the expenses would be taken from the money wagered. Takeouts would increase (possibly dramatically).

You might claim that the increased takeout is 'taking money from the horseplayer' - but just like any transaction, when you provide the money in exchange for something it is no longer your money. You have no say in how it should be spent.

You can claim that breakage and uncashed tickets are 'wrongfully' taken from the horseplayer - but if it were to be returned I could just as easily claim the money was being 'wrongfully' distributed to the horse players.

[thaskalos]

If I were to institute my example of limiting the breeding you would need to purchase a license to breed a thoroughbred. Most of that money would go to the 'rescue program' (overhead and salaries would be paid - remainder to the rescue program).

Any remaining money needed to cover the expenses would be taken from the money wagered. Takeouts would increase (possibly dramatically).

You might claim that the increased takeout is 'taking money from the horseplayer' - but just like any transaction, when you provide the money in exchange for something it is no longer your money. You have no say in how it should be spent.

You can claim that breakage and uncashed tickets are 'wrongfully' taken from the horseplayer - but if it were to be returned I could just as easily claim the money was being 'wrongfully' distributed to the horse players.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree here. IMO...the breakage and the confiscation of the uncashed ticket proceeds is an act of outright THIEVERY...and this shameful practice is allowed to go on only because the industry considers its customers to be nothing but addicted fools.

[cutchemist42]

I guess one of my main thoughts is that I feel any owner should be able to afford the $250 or whatever it costs to humanely euthanize a horse after they dont need it.

Selling the horse for $200 and sending them down that excruciating slaugther pipeline not designed for them is sickening. None of the slaughter pipeline is adequte for horses, from transportation down to the actual slaughter.

How can anyone justify that difference in costs?

[cj]

You might claim that the increased takeout is 'taking money from the horseplayer' - but just like any transaction, when you provide the money in exchange for something it is no longer your money. You have no say in how it should be spent.



Horseplayers pay enough. They shouldn't have to pay one more cent to pay for this unless they choose to do so through donations, as many do. Part of being an owner is being responsible for the horse. If you can't do right by the horse, don't own horses.

[woodbinepmi]

Horseplayers pay enough. They shouldn't have to pay one more cent to pay for this unless they choose to do so through donations, as many do. Part of being an owner is being responsible for the horse. If you can't do right by the horse, don't own horses.

HEAR HEAR!

[luisbe]

If everyone stopped betting on horse racing it seems like a lot of problems would be solved including this one.

Unless is an addiction.

[Inner Dirt]

Vigors, Mexico slaughtered 128,000 horses in 2016, the vast majority for export. The consumption of horse meat is not a normal cultural practice in Mexico, though I'm sure there's some.


I am starting to get concerned about what I was eating at the upper level clubhouse buffet at Agua Caliente back when they had live horse races. I used to dump so much hot salsa on my food I could have been eating anything.

[BrentT]

I race at Delta, Evd, and Fair Grounds year round.
I would never, ever, in a million years sale a horse to one of the bums from Thompsons, I don't and most owners over there don't need that 3-500 they are paying..... But some still do it, it's very sad.

Problem is: The racing commission can do nothing about it technically, if someone sales a horse to someone, then they send it to thompsons or another kill buyer the racing commissions hands are tied BECAUSE it(Horse Slaughter) is not Illegal in the U.S...... So complaining to the racing commissions is NEVER going to hel as sad as it is, you have to complain to your local congresmen/women. Perhaps we could get a big petition started and I'm sure we could get millions of signatures for it.

However I did read a good comment in this thread and I will post fliers at the tracks in Louisiana. I will post for them that want to sale to call these horse rescues first and let them buy for the same price so they can re-home these animals. I'm going to get in contact with some of the rescues to see if I can put thier info on the fliers to post at tracks and hopefully this helps.

It's very very nasty what these kill pens are doing.
They are the scum of the earth.

Is anyone interested in writing up or starting a petition that we can get signatures for to present to congress? Electronic signatures somehow as it would go viral then. I just have no idea how to do all this.

[BrentT]

This goes with the comment above, I could not edit.

** Edit **
This is far fetched but I may ask if theres a way that every horse that runs is charged $1 (I mean theres pony & Jock fees on every race thru these accts $20 & $70 min) on the owners account. That would bring in around 1k per week which could be used for rehoming, or paying the owners like $500 to send to certain rescues instead of kill buyers/auctions.

[Fager Fan]

This goes with the comment above, I could not edit.

** Edit **
This is far fetched but I may ask if theres a way that every horse that runs is charged $1 (I mean theres pony & Jock fees on every race thru these accts $20 & $70 min) on the owners account. That would bring in around 1k per week which could be used for rehoming, or paying the owners like $500 to send to certain rescues instead of kill buyers/auctions.

Far fetched? Owners are already having far more than $1 taken out of their accounts for every race they run at a majority of the tracks for this purpose. Trainers and jockeys, and plenty more who make their livings off the horse, are required to pay none.

[Mulerider]

Far fetched? Owners are already having far more than $1 taken out of their accounts for every race they run at a majority of the tracks for this purpose. Trainers and jockeys, and plenty more who make their livings off the horse, are required to pay none.

If Delta owners are having to pay into such a fund, they're getting screwed. Like the horses.

[Fager Fan]

If Delta owners are having to pay into such a fund, they're getting screwed. Like the horses.

The Delta owners aren't. They're not among "most tracks". In any event, the amount you specified is far too little. Much more is needed. If you're paying only $1 a start for this, you should expect as much as $1 gets you, which is a candy bar.

[cutchemist42]

Are owners so desparate they cant afford to euthanize an unwanted horse?

[Mulerider]

The Delta owners aren't. They're not among "most tracks". In any event, the amount you specified is far too little. Much more is needed. If you're paying only $1 a start for this, you should expect as much as $1 gets you, which is a candy bar.

I didn't specify anything. Brent did. If it were up to me, I'd institute a one half of one percent (0.005) transaction fee on every component of the industry. From Tapit's $300,000 stud fee down to the $1,000 stud; from the breeder's initial sale of the foal to the pinhooker; from the pinhooker elsewhere, every time the horse changes hands privately or through a claim; then I'd apply the fee to purses, on-and-off track handle. I'm guessing close to $80 million annually could be raised for aftercare, which, in my neck of the woods, would buy a lot of hay, oats, and vet maintenance for the horses that could not be re-homed or re-purposed.

This, of course, is a pipe dream and could never be accomplished without a central governing body.

Mule

[AltonKelsey]

Not a bad idea. Most (95%? just a wild guess) of the money paid over 100-200k is totally thrown away on horses that will never come close to breaking even, so a small additional tax would hardly be noticed.

Maybe tax only very high priced sales , since those folks seem anxious to toss money away.

[cj]

Are owners so desparate they cant afford to euthanize an unwanted horse?

As sad as that sounds, it is a much better option than sending them to these kill pens.

[Mulerider]

As sad as that sounds, it is a much better option than sending them to these kill pens.

CJ, correct me if I'm wrong (a good possibility), but I've read that some rescue organizations perform what are called "compassion pulls." I take that to mean that the horse is purchased to be humanely euthanized rather than sent to Mexico.

[BrentT]

If Delta owners are having to pay into such a fund, they're getting screwed. Like the horses.


Owners are not paying into any fund like this. Not in Louisiana or Kentucky that I’m aware of and I run in both spots. It would be good if they were

[BrentT]

Far fetched? Owners are already having far more than $1 taken out of their accounts for every race they run at a majority of the tracks for this purpose. Trainers and jockeys, and plenty more who make their livings off the horse, are required to pay none.

Yes, far fetched to get a racing commission on board to do anything, I’m not talking about the amount. And $1 or $2 a start would go a long long way, it’s much better than ZERO that is given now. That’s a lot of races a year, including quarter horses in the state.

It would be a way to get these horses to rescue groups instead of kill pens, I’m not saying for the commission to take care of them for eternity, just the time to get em to the rescues. The rescue groups do a wonderful job of getting them rehomed.

[cutchemist42]

CJ, correct me if I'm wrong (a good possibility), but I've read that some rescue organizations perform what are called "compassion pulls." I take that to mean that the horse is purchased to be humanely euthanized rather than sent to Mexico.

Yep its true. I folliw a few of them on FB and some are pulled knowing they cant be rehabbed.

Just remember these horses are being shipped to facilities and in trailers not designed for them. Also remember that there is a lot of fraid on signing off that these horses are drug free and fit for human consumption. Its scary thinking what other countries are eating trusting the killpens that the horses are drug free.

[cutchemist42]

As sad as that sounds, it is a much better option than sending them to these kill pens.

They are choosing $250 from killbuyers over the $350 for the vet to euthanize them.

Basically, I think if we are going to transport horses for slaughter, at least do it better. Other animals have facilities designed for them. The same should be done for horses.

The pictures of some horses after transportation is sad....

[cj]

If any major network did an investigation on this and it made it to television, it would be a major black eye on the sport. Imagine a 30 for 30 on it. Tracks that do nothing like Delta are playing with fire. The sad thing is the public won't care which track... just that it is horse racing.

[Fager Fan]

If any major network did an investigation on this and it made it to television, it would be a major black eye on the sport. Imagine a 30 for 30 on it. Tracks that do nothing like Delta are playing with fire. The sad thing is the public won't care which track... just that it is horse racing.

Here's some good news:

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/226280/porter-forms-horse-welfare-organization

[Mulerider]

Here's some good news:

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/226280/porter-forms-horse-welfare-organization

Good news, indeed!

The article ended with a classic understatement:

"We're starting one area at a time," Keith said. "Louisiana has the most need, so we're starting there.'


Mule

[PointGiven]

A very big tip of the cap to him.

[Mulerider]

A very good column by Mr. Haskin that goes into greater detail of NTWO's plan of action. A trip by the group has already been made to Louisiana, which is deservedly the focus of their initial efforts.

A few of NTWO's supporters -- including Rosie Napravnik -- made a trip to Dominique's Livestock Auction in Baton Rouge on auction day. Sure enough, they witnessed Delta racehorses, still wearing racing plates, unloaded from trailers. The description of the treatment these horses received is not pleasant to read. The group actually bid on and rescued several of them; not surprisingly, they were bidding against Jacob Thompson, of Thompson's Kill Lot fame.

Haskin: Porter Forms Organization to Save Horses (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2018/02/28/porter-forms-organization-to-save-horses.aspx)

The article is pretty long, but I think this group might actually have a chance to bring about positive change.

Mule

[cutchemist42]

If any major network did an investigation on this and it made it to television, it would be a major black eye on the sport. Imagine a 30 for 30 on it. Tracks that do nothing like Delta are playing with fire. The sad thing is the public won't care which track... just that it is horse racing.

What would be worse publicly, sending them to kill lots or euthanize them?

Anyhow, I actually asked about that idea a while ago in a thread which I couldnt find. I basically asked how a Blackfish-esque documentary would impact horse racing? That movie basically killed an industry.

[cutchemist42]

A very good column by Mr. Haskin that goes into greater detail of NTWO's plan of action. A trip by the group has already been made to Louisiana, which is deservedly the focus of their initial efforts.

A few of NTWO's supporters -- including Rosie Napravnik -- made a trip to Dominique's Livestock Auction in Baton Rouge on auction day. Sure enough, they witnessed Delta racehorses, still wearing racing plates, unloaded from trailers. The description of the treatment these horses received is not pleasant to read. The group actually bid on and rescued several of them; not surprisingly, they were bidding against Jacob Thompson, of Thompson's Kill Lot fame.

Haskin: Porter Forms Organization to Save Horses (http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2018/02/28/porter-forms-organization-to-save-horses.aspx)

The article is pretty long, but I think this group might actually have a chance to bring about positive change.

Mule

Its sad knowing how inflated the kill lots are making the cost of rescue. Capitalism at its ugliest...

[cj]

What would be worse publicly, sending them to kill lots or euthanize them?

Anyhow, I actually asked about that idea a while ago in a thread which I couldnt find. I basically asked how a Blackfish-esque documentary would impact horse racing? That movie basically killed an industry.

Kill lots. At least euthanization is considered humane. Obviously neither is ideal.

[Parson]

Owners are not paying into any fund like this. Not in Louisiana or Kentucky that I’m aware of and I run in both spots. It would be good if they were

Once again, I do not post often, but I would like to clarify. attached is a statement from Churchill Downs on one of our first time starters. She did not hit the board that day, but she did receive some starter money of 120.00 that day. We had to pay Albarado 70.00 in Jockey fees, KHRC 20.00 for the administration of the race day lasix, and 5.00 to the Aftercare Alliance.

We have not ran in LA because of various reasons. There is a chance that we run later this month, so I cannot say about that jurisdiction. Here in KY it is mandatory to contribute with each start to this fund.

[Parson]

Let me correct my statement above, I cannot say it is mandatory in KY. I just know we are charged that fee not only at CDX, but also KEE, ELP and KD. We have not run at TPX because we are either in FL or LA for the winter months.

[BrentT]

Once again, I do not post often, but I would like to clarify. attached is a statement from Churchill Downs on one of our first time starters. She did not hit the board that day, but she did receive some starter money of 120.00 that day. We had to pay Albarado 70.00 in Jockey fees, KHRC 20.00 for the administration of the race day lasix, and 5.00 to the Aftercare Alliance.

We have not ran in LA because of various reasons. There is a chance that we run later this month, so I cannot say about that jurisdiction. Here in KY it is mandatory to contribute with each start to this fund.

You are correct
I do see it on my KY bill now. Just not on La. which does not do it.

I didn't pull up the horsemans account and look, just looked in my booklet I keep everything in and I missed writing that down.

Good for KY.

[Mulerider]

Last weekend of the meet at Delta, and FIFTEEN of their horses were found in Thompson's Kill Lot today.

Delta Downs is a real piece of work.

[thaskalos]

Last weekend of the meet at Delta, and FIFTEEN of their horses were found in Thompson's Kill Lot today.

Delta Downs is a real piece of work.

Is there a place where we can uncover the CONNECTIONS of these unfortunate horses? This type of information shouldn't be kept hidden...IMO; it should be shouted from the RAFTERS.

[thaskalos]

http://cs.bloodhorse.com/blogs/horse-racing-steve-haskin/archive/2018/01/16/to-save-a-life-the-greatest-feeling-in-racing.aspx

[Mulerider]

Is there a place where we can uncover the CONNECTIONS of these unfortunate horses? This type of information shouldn't be kept hidden...IMO; it should be shouted from the RAFTERS.

Thask, that very course of action is being discussed at the icareihelp Twitter page. I think all these Delta horses have lip tattoos, so it should be pretty easy to trace back to the owners.

That said, the owners and trainers of two Delta kill lot horses in recent months were identified and publicly posted on the aforementioned site; to my knowledge Delta took no action even when provided with the names of the connections. Delta certainly never responded to my email politely asking for an update on any punitive action.

I just sent an email to the Investigations division of the Louisiana Racing Commission. We'll see if I get a response. I won't hold my breath.

Mule

[Mulerider]

Thanks for posting that Haskins column, Thask. The "Dina" he mentions, Dina Alborano, runs www.icareihelp.com
(http://www.icareihelp.com)
A few weeks ago I donated a small amount to rescue a Delta horse from Thompson's Kill Lot. His name was Ole Doc.

Equibase: Ole Doc (http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9340041&registry=T&rbt=TB)

Ole Doc is six years old. In his career he earned $102,485. He was perfectly healthy when he was sentenced for slaughter. Dina raised enough money, bought him from Thompson's, and he's doing well and looking good in a new permanent home.

Last recorded connections:

Doris Hebert, trainer
Robert J. Esponge, Jr., owner

[thaskalos]

The thought of 2-year-old horses running around in kill lots sickens me to the point where I am ashamed of myself for having supported this game for the last 37 years. This isn't the "Sport of Kings"...this is an OUTRAGE. These poor horses are being discarded as if they were a worn-out deck of cards in some gruesome poker game...and the tracks don't give a damn even as they sit on the casino profits that these unfortunate horses help them collect...while pretending that they have "anti-slaughter" rules in effect on their premises.

Utterly despicable...IMO. :puke:

[thaskalos]

Thanks for posting that Haskins column, Thask. The "Dina" he mentions, Dina Alborano, runs www.icareihelp.com
(http://www.icareihelp.com)
A few weeks ago I donated a small amount to rescue a Delta horse from Thompson's Kill Lot. His name was Ole Doc.

Equibase: Ole Doc (http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=9340041&registry=T&rbt=TB)

Ole Doc is six years old. In his career he earned $102,485. He was perfectly healthy when he was sentenced for slaughter. Dina raised enough money, bought him from Thompson's, and he's doing well and looking good in a new permanent home.

Last recorded connections:

Doris Hebert, trainer
Robert J. Esponge, Jr., owner

I will contact icareihelp myself...and do what I can to support this great cause. What is a better feeling than to know that you've helped to save a life?

[Mulerider]

Nine more Delta horses found at Thompson's Kill Lot in a separate holding pen, bringing the total there to 24, bound for slaughter in 48 hours. The nine segregated horses are marked "Direct Ship," meaning direct ship to Mexican slaughterhouses without being advertised for sale on Thompson's Facebook page. Whoever sold them to Thompson's doesn't want to be traced.

Delta is simply giving the middle finger to those of us who'd like to see Delta uphold its so-called "no-slaughter" policy.

Despicable management and leadership at Delta and Boyd Gaming. And since the Director of Racing at Delta, Chris Warren, is also the DofR at Evangeline, I expect we will see more of the same when EVD opens.

[cutchemist42]

If you cant afford even proper "putting-down" the horse, you shouldnt be in horse ownership. I wish people would stop betting this track. i have a feeling the connection to the kill lots is well planned there.

[Hambletonian]

We all have to face something. There is more racing then reputable folks to undertake it.

Back in the day, you could do a number of terrible things and only the insiders would know.

Today, the worst of all worlds. The terrible info is out there for all to see, and the authorities by and large do nothing.

Race horse aftercare is a very difficult issue. Few horses that are raced for any length of time are left in a condition for the average future horse owner to deal with. Most have issues which seriously effect what they can be used for. I imagine if we all were aware of what happens t most of them we would be sick to our stomachs. We here the happy story, "sent off to retirement," and hope and pray they will be taken care of. I am guessing that very very few race horses die of old age.

The public will not stand for it much longer.

[Mulerider]

Dina at www.icareihelp.com is $7,600 short of the $22,000 needed to bail out the Delta 24. She was denied help by the newly-created NTWO. She had to pay Jacob Thompson to give her an extension of time. She will also need $350 per horse to cover the 30-day quarantine.

https://twitter.com/icareihelp/status/972909824689299456


https://twitter.com/icareihelp/status/972914585471766533

https://twitter.com/icareihelp/status/972916350300622849

[Denny]

Does anybody know if this occurs with Standardbreds that race at harness tracks???

I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.

[Mulerider]

Does anybody know if this occurs with Standardbreds that race at harness tracks???

I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.

The answer is yes. Scroll down the icareihelp Twitter page and you'll see one recently rescued.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Thankfully Delta Downs racing is over.

That means no more horses will be slaughtered.

[Mulerider]

Thankfully Delta Downs racing is over.

That means no more horses will be slaughtered.

LDH, I had the same thought.

Then it occurred to me that BECAUSE the meet is over, Thompson's Kill Lot will be filling up with Delta horses in the next few weeks. The fall meet doesn't start until October 17. For certain owners, if you've got an unproductive horse it's better to get three or four hundred dollars from Jacob Thompson (a convicted felon who spent a little jail time here in East Texas for livestock theft) now, than to provide hay and oats for the next seven months.

[thaskalos]

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Tragic-Fate-of-Thoroughbreds-Revealed-in-New-Documentary.html?soid=1101655399670&aid=r10gTnR13o0

[Mulerider]

http://myemail.constantcontact.com/Tragic-Fate-of-Thoroughbreds-Revealed-in-New-Documentary.html?soid=1101655399670&aid=r10gTnR13o0

God Almighty.

Let me be blunt. Jacob Thompson is criminal scum. A special place in Hell awaits him. And I have worse things I could say about his live-in girlfriend, Tara Sanders.

THIS is why I appealed in my OP for folks to contact their congressional reps in support of the SAFE act: it will effectively put the kill lot people like Jacob Thompson out of the horse business. I would like to reiterate that plea.

Thask, regarding the current Delta 24, Thompson is not allowing potential buyers to examine the lip tattoos prior to purchase.

Mule

[baconswitchfarm]

Does anybody know if this occurs with Standardbreds that race at harness tracks???

I'd REALLY LIKE TO KNOW.



The answer is yes but not like with thoroughbreds. The horses at kill lots that are standardbreds are mostly very old or have major physical issues. Because of the major rise in population of Amish communities, standardbred demand is at an all time high. Some tracks have had to raise the bottom claiming prices because people would just claim them and put them right on the road. Ten years ago an average trotter that was too slow but sound could be sold for 1500 or so as a road horse. Because of lower breeding numbers and higher demand those same horses sell regularly now for 5 to 10k right off the track.Recently had a friend turn down 15k for a 4 year old maiden gelding. He was large and handsome but slow. So, there are killer type horses but the economics today have really changed the market.

[Mulerider]

The remaining funds were raised last night to rescue the 24 Delta horses from Thompson's Kill Pen. They will now be transported to the horse farm of Hal Parker in Farmerville, La. Veterinary services will be provided by a local vet at greatly discounted rates.

Once these horses clear the 30-day quarantine, they will be available for adoption at no cost to parties that can pass the background check and that have a suitable place to keep a horse.

Thank you to any Pace Advantage members who donated to this effort!

[johnhannibalsmith]

The remaining funds were raised last night to rescue the 24 Delta horses from Thompson's Kill Pen...

Good for everyone involved. Thanks. :ThmbUp:

[PaceAdvantage]

...and the tracks don't give a damn even as they sit on the casino profits that these unfortunate horses help them collect...while pretending that they have "anti-slaughter" rules in effect on their premises.

Utterly despicable...IMO. :puke:Yes, the very fact that Delta Downs is owned and operated by BOYD GAMING (a publicly traded company...and publicly traded companies don't like bad publicity) is the real kicker here. The casino rakes in the money and can't come up with any extra $$$ to see these unwanted horses meet a better end to their racing careers....yeah...right...they just don't give two shits.

People should put the heat on BOYD GAMING ($35.28/share at the moment) if they ever hope to see any sort of action when it comes to DED horses being sent to slaughter...

[Denny]

Thank you Mulerider and baconswitchfarm for responding to my inquiry on Standardbreds. Never would have thought of the Amish.
Good news for lovers of the sport and horses.
It's already much better being a harness fan and not seeing fatal breakdowns like you do at the runners, and this is as good a reason as most, actually better, to follow harness racing instead.
Denny

[cj]

The remaining funds were raised last night to rescue the 24 Delta horses from Thompson's Kill Pen. They will now be transported to the horse farm of Hal Parker in Farmerville, La. Veterinary services will be provided by a local vet at greatly discounted rates.

Once these horses clear the 30-day quarantine, they will be available for adoption at no cost to parties that can pass the background check and that have a suitable place to keep a horse.

Thank you to any Pace Advantage members who donated to this effort!

It really is sad. At some point, and probably sooner rather than later, people are going to run out of money they can donate for horse rescue. We can't let people like Dina keeping doing the heavy lifting. The owners have to be held responsible.

[Mulerider]

People should put the heat on BOYD GAMING ($35.28/share at the moment) if they ever hope to see any sort of action when it comes to DED horses being sent to slaughter...

And let's not forget that BOYD GAMING also owns Evangeline Downs, which opens on April 4, and whose Director of Racing carries the same title at Delta.

An interesting coincidence: Delta Downs and Evangeline are about 120 miles apart. Thompson's Kill Lot, in Pitkin, La., is strategically located 65 miles from Delta Downs, and 78 miles from Evangeline.

Mule

[Denny]

It really is sad. At some point, and probably sooner rather than later, people are going to run out of money they can donate for horse rescue. We can't let people like Dina keeping doing the heavy lifting. The owners have to be held responsible.

Not only owners cj, how about those earning a comfortable living off of horses.
Jockeys, trainers, racetrack executives, breeders, sales companies.....
Some of these people have gotten very rich on horses.

[cj]

Not only owners cj, how about those earning a comfortable living off of horses.
Jockeys, trainers, racetrack executives, breeders, sales companies.....
Some of these people have gotten very rich on horses.

Yes, agreed.

[Mulerider]

Thank you Mulerider and baconswitchfarm for responding to my inquiry on Standardbreds.

Denny -- Thought you might be interested in this:

Tanner Unveils Proposal for Standardbred Transition Alliance (http://xwebapp.ustrotting.com/absolutenm/templates/article.aspx?articleid=79175&zoneid=118)

Relevant excerpt:

“In October, [USTA Director of Registry and Member Services] TC Lane and I attended a meeting of key industry stakeholders at the Red Mile to discuss Standardbred aftercare,” Tanner said. “The meeting was borne out of frustration concerning the plight of a Standardbred named Killean Cut Kid, who was found in poor condition in a sales pen in Louisiana."

Related article on Killean Cut Kid (http://www.harnessracingupdate.com/2017/09/10/rescue-killean-cut-kid/)

Mule

[PaceAdvantage]

Here's the comment page for Boyd Gaming corporate...maybe we should all drop them a line and let them know what we think about the current situation at one of their properties?

https://www.boydgaming.com/contact-us

I know it probably won't matter...but if enough people write, perhaps someone will at least start paying attention...

[Mulerider]

Here's the comment page for Boyd Gaming corporate...maybe we should all drop them a line and let them know what we think about the current situation at one of their properties?

https://www.boydgaming.com/contact-us

I know it probably won't matter...but if enough people write, perhaps someone will at least start paying attention...

Done. Again.

And I was polite, again. Well, except maybe for a subtle, nuanced mention of 60 Minutes. :)

[Mulerider]

Thank you Mulerider and baconswitchfarm for responding to my inquiry on Standardbreds.

Denny -- forgot to send you this. It's a rescue organization for Standardbreds.

https://www.facebook.com/sosspage/

Scroll down a bit and there were 15 Standardbreds that this group was trying to bail out of two pens in Pennsylvania, one in Shippensburg and the other in Lebanon. Yesterday was their deadline, don't know if they got it done in time.

Mule

[bello]

Not sure it still goes on, but my guess is it still does.

Amish truck would pull into Monticello Raceway and pick up the horses many owners did not want to keep. Owners know many will go off to the kill pens and some may actually be put to use on the front of a buggy. Clear conscious ( if you want to call it that) since the owners don't know if they will really live as an Amish horse or sent to slaughter.

Process is known as Amishing.

[baconswitchfarm]

Denny -- forgot to send you this. It's a rescue organization for Standardbreds.

https://www.facebook.com/sosspage/

Scroll down a bit and there were 15 Standardbreds that this group was trying to bail out of two pens in Pennsylvania, one in Shippensburg and the other in Lebanon. Yesterday was their deadline, don't know if they got it done in time.

Mule


If you scroll through that rescues page you will see what I was talking about. Every horse they are trying to rescue is between 13 and 20 something years old. There are no horses that have just come off the track and right to a killer pen. It is still an issue the industry is trying to address with these elder horses who have out lived any use except for a companion pet. But you will never find twenty healthy young horses in a kill lot at the end of the meet like in Louisiana. It is a tough issue to solve as finding a home for thousands of arthritic senior horses that cant be ridden or used is a steep climb. The mass numbers of thoroughbreds that needs to be dealt with seems daunting.

[Cholly]

Here's the comment page for Boyd Gaming corporate...maybe we should all drop them a line and let them know what we think about the current situation at one of their properties?

https://www.boydgaming.com/contact-us

I know it probably won't matter...but if enough people write, perhaps someone will at least start paying attention...

Done, Boss.

like Mule, was polite...though I did suggest some campaign to let their customers know what their gambling dollars were supporting.

[cutchemist42]

What is sad is how hard it is to break the killpen cycle.

-Killbuyer buys at auction/owner for 300.
-Makes rescue pay 800 cause they know they will and prey off the kindness.
-Killbuyer now has more money to buy more horses than before.

You need a solution where rescues can have equal access off the track for a fairprice. If you are an owner getting paid the same, wouldnt you rather get 300 from a rescue vs a killbuyer?

[cutchemist42]

And for education, just look at how bad the trailers and slaughter practices are for Mexico.

At least in Canada, the horse is shot/stunned as accurately as possible.

In Mexico, they are stabbed several times through the spinal cord and than the throat is sliced to further bleed.

On top of that, too many of these trainers are signing fraudulent drug papers. Eating American racehorse meat is not healthy.

[Mulerider]

What is sad is how hard it is to break the killpen cycle.

-Killbuyer buys at auction/owner for 300.
-Makes rescue pay 800 cause they know they will and prey off the kindness.
-Killbuyer now has more money to buy more horses than before.

You need a solution where rescues can have equal access off the track for a fairprice. If you are an owner getting paid the same, wouldnt you rather get 300 from a rescue vs a killbuyer?

This excellent post gets to the heart of the matter. Jacob Thompson was firm in his price to Dina Alborano on the Delta 24, for which she had to pay $945 each. He wouldn't budge. He'd rather send them to slaughter than to show a willingness to negotiate or compromise with a rescue. That's the kind of people you're dealing with.

Best scenario would be to pass the SAFE Act and stop all horse exports for slaughter. Barring that, we've got to put owners and rescues together and cut people like Jacob Thompson out of the equation.

[cutchemist42]

This excellent post gets to the heart of the matter. Jacob Thompson was firm in his price to Dina Alborano on the Delta 24, for which she had to pay $945 each. He wouldn't budge. He'd rather send them to slaughter than to show a willingness to negotiate or compromise with a rescue. That's the kind of people you're dealing with.

Best scenario would be to pass the SAFE Act and stop all horse exports for slaughter. Barring that, we've got to put owners and rescues together and cut people like Jacob Thompson out of the equation.

Yep, theres a special place in hell for someone thats running an operation like that. Im not trying to hide from the fact alot of animals are slaughtered. Given the same price though, I dont understand how any reasonable wouldnt take the rescue money.

I know my track ASD has a group on FB called the Final Furlong where exracers are posted by trainers with their current condition. Some might be just pasture pets, but the ones that can still do other athletics still go for $1500-2000.

There needs to be a fairprice avenue for the rescues. Going straight from track to killpen by these scummy owners is not going to work for the rescues.

[Mulerider]

There needs to be a fairprice avenue for the rescues. Going straight from track to killpen by these scummy owners is not going to work for the rescues.

I have in front of me the 2017-2018 Delta Downs Thoroughbred Stall Application. There are 23 conditions listed that applicants must agree to. Number 23, added, perhaps, as an afterthought, says, "Any trainer or owner based at Delta Downs who sells a horse for slaughter that was previously based at Delta Downs will have their stalls permanently revoked." That's it in its entirety.

Contrast that with Tampa Bay's 2017-2018 stall application, which includes the following on the first page as a separate, distinct notification, segregated from the text of all the other rules:

IMPORTANT NOTICE: All owners or trainers stabled at Tampa Bay Downs (TBD) found to have directly or indirectly sold a horse for slaughter will have his or her stalls permanently revoked. Tampa Bay Downs requires its horsemen to conduct due diligence on those buying horses and encourages them to support rescue and adoption efforts by finding humane ways of dealing with horses unable to continue racing. Any owners or trainers stabled at TBD found to have directly or indirectly sold a horse for slaughter will have his or her stalls permanently revoked. TBD requires its horsemen to conduct due diligence on those buying horses and encourages them to support rescue and adoption efforts by finding humane ways of dealing with horses unable to continue racing


That's a direct cut and paste. You'll notice that the statement repeats itself. Whether by accident or by design, it gets the point across.

(The emphasis on the word "indirectly" above is mine, because that word is key to holding connections accountable. I can't remember the track, but one trainer last year who was being investigated for this issue claimed he sold horses to a buyer who was going to donate them to a children's camp. Right...)

[Cholly]

Here's the lame response I received from Jamie Gaines (JamieGaines@boydgaming.com):

"Thank you for reaching out, Jim

As you’ve probably read in our posts, Delta Downs has an anti-slaughter policy. That policy is posted throughout our stables and in our racing forms and condition books. If a trainer or owner is found to have knowingly sold a horse to slaughter, we will permanently revoke their stall privileges.

But we do not license owners or trainers, and we do not have the authority to revoke – or attempt to revoke – those licenses.

Furthermore, we do not have the legal right to bar licensed owners and trainers from racing at our tracks.

Just to be clear, we are vehemently opposed to this behavior, and we will continue to work with all licensing authorities to do what we are permitted to do under the law to deter this behavior.

Again, we appreciate you reaching out, and we hope we’ve answered your questions."

Following the link provided above by PA, my original submission to Boyd Gaming was forwarded to Jamie Gaines. Not sure if Jamie Gaines is part of the corporate side of Boyd Gaming or part of Delta Downs, so use your own judgement if you want to contact Jamie Gaines directly or route through the corporate website.

But hopefully some others will "reach out"--Jamie will thank you for it.

[Mulerider]

Well, well. Look what Delta just posted on its Twitter page, its first acknowledgement of the issue since the last time a big group of horses was saved from Thompson's Kill Lot in January. I say we stay on 'em.

https://twitter.com/deltaracing/status/973682644692099072

[Mulerider]

Cholly, I never got a response. Guess it was the 60 Minutes thing...

One wonders how Mr. Gaines reconciles his statement to you that "Furthermore, we do not have the legal right to bar licensed owners and trainers from racing at our tracks.." with the VERY FIRST ITEM in their 2017-2018 Thoroughbred Stall Application:

1. Delta Downs reserves the right to refuse the application for stable space in whole or in part or refuse the acceptance of any entry into any race for any reason or cause and without notice to the undersigned.

With all due respect to Mr. Gaines, I call bullshit on his response.

[cj]

Well, well. Look what Delta just posted on its Twitter page, its first acknowledgement of the issue since the last time a big group of horses was saved from Thompson's Kill Lot in January. I say we stay on 'em.

https://twitter.com/deltaracing/status/973682644692099072

Nothing has changed since January when they last posted, don't see why it would now. They can leave that there and try to look good until the next meet I guess.

[Jeff P]

What is sad is how hard it is to break the killpen cycle.

-Killbuyer buys at auction/owner for 300.
-Makes rescue pay 800 cause they know they will and prey off the kindness.
-Killbuyer now has more money to buy more horses than before.

You need a solution where rescues can have equal access off the track for a fairprice. If you are an owner getting paid the same, wouldnt you rather get 300 from a rescue vs a killbuyer?

Was not aware of this. (Very interesting post.)

Please understand that I am a horseplayer - and that the comments/questions I am about to post come from that perspective - and not from that of an owner/trainer/groom, etc. --

I tend to believe horsemen with extra/unwanted horses at the end of a meet would just about universally choose direct sale to a genuine horse rescue vs. an auction sale where a percentage chance exists the horse could end up going to slaughter -- IF such an option existed.

Q. Does such an option exist in Louisiana?... And by that I mean is there a formal program in place so that everybody on the backside knows how to contact the local horse rescue directly (provided there is one) to arrange for a sale. (Making it easy to bypass the local kill buyer entirely.)

Q. Does a similar option (a model program) exist in another racing jurisdiction?

Q. If not: Why not?

Q. Does anyone other than myself think getting a model program like this off the ground would be a good idea? And what would it take to get something like this up and running?



-jp

.

[thaskalos]

Was not aware of this. (Very interesting post.)

Please understand that I am a horseplayer - and that the comments/questions I am about to post come from that perspective - and not from that of an owner/trainer/groom, etc. --

I tend to believe horsemen with extra/unwanted horses at the end of a meet would just about universally choose direct sale to a genuine horse rescue vs. an auction sale where a percentage chance exists the horse could end up going to slaughter -- IF such an option existed.

Q. Does such an option exist in Louisiana?... And by that I mean is there a formal program in place so that everybody on the backside knows how to contact the local horse rescue directly (provided there is one) to arrange for a sale. (Making it easy to bypass the local kill buyer entirely.)

Q. Does a similar option (a model program) exist in another racing jurisdiction?

Q. If not: Why not?

Q. Does anyone other than myself think getting a model program like this off the ground would be a good idea? And what would it take to get something like this up and running?



-jp

.

I think it's safe to assume that the owners of these unwanted horses already know that such rescue organizations exist...but still they choose to take the short money from these unscrupulous kill-buyers. While Thompson is a scumbag for buying these horses for $300 each and then jacking up the price and parading them on Facebook to tug at the heartstrings of a sensitive public...the owners of these horses are also scumbags for aligning themselves with such a shameful "business practice". I understand that continuing to feed an unproductive horse may be too expensive for some owners...but why not donate such a horse to someone with the willingness and the resources to properly care for the animal? I submit that any owner who places $300 ahead of the concern for the welfare of the horse he once supposedly "loved" is exactly the type of owner who needs to be driven out of this game.

It's easy to hate people like Jacob Thompson...but the horse-owners who sell to them are just as despicable...IMO. These scumbags need to be identified...and their names need to be paraded on Facebook, alongside these unfortunate animals that they've marked for an early and senseless death.

[Tom]

Those who would sell horses to a killer have no decency. They probably take the easy way in everything they do, probable doped the horses so much they don't want anyone to find out.
Anyone who sells a horse to a killer is the scum of the earth.

[cj]

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005986582175744

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005313316773888

[Mulerider]

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005986582175744

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974005313316773888

As I told LDH in an earlier post, the end of Delta's meet just made this more likely to occur.

[cutchemist42]

Was not aware of this. (Very interesting post.)

Please understand that I am a horseplayer - and that the comments/questions I am about to post come from that perspective - and not from that of an owner/trainer/groom, etc. --

I tend to believe horsemen with extra/unwanted horses at the end of a meet would just about universally choose direct sale to a genuine horse rescue vs. an auction sale where a percentage chance exists the horse could end up going to slaughter -- IF such an option existed.

Q. Does such an option exist in Louisiana?... And by that I mean is there a formal program in place so that everybody on the backside knows how to contact the local horse rescue directly (provided there is one) to arrange for a sale. (Making it easy to bypass the local kill buyer entirely.)

Q. Does a similar option (a model program) exist in another racing jurisdiction?

Q. If not: Why not?

Q. Does anyone other than myself think getting a model program like this off the ground would be a good idea? And what would it take to get something like this up and running?



-jp

.

If you have Favebook as an example, try looking up Final Furlong for ASD horses. I think that is a start, where its an avenue to post the horses outside of a slaughter environment.

A healthy exracer can still be posted for $1500 -$2000.

I follow thr group and each horse posting has a very active comments section of interest.

[Mulerider]

This was just tweeted. This horse, one of the rescued Delta 24, collapsed and died of a fractured vertebrae just after arriving at Mr Parker's farm this morning. The horse's name is Charlee's Maid.

I mention this because Charlee's Maid was trained by George Williams, the same trainer of Alecia's Little Boy, who was himself rescued from Thompson's just a week or so ago.

https://twitter.com/brooklyncowboy1/status/974039181226897410

[Jeff P]

At the risk of being naive:

Where the hell is the Louisiana Racing Commission on this?



-jp

.

[Mulerider]

At the risk of being naive:

Where the hell is the Louisiana Racing Commission on this?



-jp

.

I emailed a gentleman with the Investigations Dept. of the LRC on Monday regarding the Delta 24. As with my emails to Delta, there was no response.

Conclusion: the Louisiana Racing Commission is about as worthless as Delta Downs and Boyd Gaming.

Comment on the horse that died this morning: what kind of person would subject a horse with a broken back to days of pain standing in a cramped pen at Thompson's, then in an even worse cramped trailer for two days to a Mexican slaughterhouse? For $300? Are you kidding me?

[cj]

I emailed a gentleman with the Investigations Dept. of the LRC on Monday regarding the Delta 24. As with my emails to Delta, there was no response.

Conclusion: the Louisiana Racing Commission is about as worthless as Delta Downs and Boyd Gaming.

Comment on the horse that died this morning: what kind of person would subject a horse with a broken back to days of pain standing in a cramped pen at Thompson's, then in an even worse cramped trailer for two days to a Mexican slaughterhouse? For $300? Are you kidding me?

Emails don't work for stuff like this, too easy to blow off. You have to try to get somebody on the phone. If you aren't in Louisiana I doubt they'll give the time of day.

[green80]

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

[Tom]

See, now PETA does a role to play in our game.
If we allow scumbags like this to continue,m what the hell if our game worth.

Rather see it destroyed in the public press with lies and cherry picked case than allow it to continue.
Dont complain to the tracks, complain to the press, the TV stations, PETA, your congressional representatives. People looking to make a name by extorting the racing game. People who can destroy it.

I still maintain only Federal Regulation can fix this sick industry.
And that is the absolute last resort.

[Mulerider]

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

Green80, the same economic pressures exist everywhere else in the industry, and yet we're not hearing about similar numbers at tracks anywhere else. Pennsylvania might not be far behind, but it's not yet at La. level.

I live just across the Sabine River, so the Louisiana racing culture is somewhat familiar. You have backyard owners and "trainers", many of whom ship on race day and don't stall. The horses are commodities to be used in their "hobby." And when their hobby gets too expensive, the horses are disposed of as quickly and easily as possible.

Am I wrong?

By the way, have you ever run across Super Trainer George Williams, with his impressive 7 career wins out of 375 career starts record?

[Poindexter]

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

Man this is a hard thread to read. This is some sick shit. The quoted post just illustrates to me that nothing significant is being done to combat the problem. Every dollar of breakage needs to go one place only, to the aftercare or a least humane euthanization of racehorses. I know they would manage to screw that up and some corrupt farm and/or vet will end up bilking the money, but still nothing less is acceptable. As horseplayers we really need to take action and let the powers that be know that is horses are not treated humanely, we aren't betting. Period. If we don't we are culpable.

Since Jeff Platt is posting in this thread, I am insisting that Hana take action on this matter. There should be nothing more important to any horseplayer than the humane treatment of racehorses whether they are racing or in training or unable to race anymore. If racing cannot police that, than they don't deserve a dollar of my money or a dollar of yours. Good ****ing riddance.

[Jeff P]

What if a partnership were formed between the local racing commission/track/horsemens group, etc. and one or more local horse rescues?

What if the local racing commission/track/horsemens group made it widely known that there's a program in place that makes it easy to "sell" your extra/unwanted horses directly to the local horse rescue?

AND THAT IF YOU ARE CAUGHT SELLING TO A KILL BUYER YOU ARE KICKED OUT OF THE GAME PERMANENTLY AND IN ALL RACING JURISDICTIONS.

Imo, such a program could involve printing up notices and posting them conspicuously throughout the plant... on bulletin boards, on stall applications, multiple places throughout the backside, hell print it in the track program, maybe even on the menu in the track kitchen, etc.

The idea being to make it virtually impossible for someone to say afterwards "I didn't know horse rescue was an option."

I hate to say it -- but it needs to be said -- in a state like Louisiana where racing is propped up by a casino/slots subsidy -- funding for the program needs to come out of the slots subsidy itself.

--Edit: Let's hear some feedback on the above. Thanks.


-jp

.

[cj]

What if a partnership were formed between the local racing commission/track/horsemens group, etc. and one or more local horse rescues?

What if the local racing commission/track/horsemens group made it widely known that there's a program in place that makes it easy to "sell" your extra/unwanted horses directly to the local horse rescue?

AND THAT IF YOU ARE CAUGHT SELLING TO A KILL BUYER YOU ARE KICKED OUT OF THE GAME PERMANENTLY AND IN ALL RACING JURISDICTIONS.

Imo, such a program could involve printing up notices and posting them conspicuously throughout the plant... on bulletin boards, on stall applications, multiple places throughout the backside, hell maybe even on the menu in the track kitchen, etc.

The idea being to make it virtually impossible for someone to say afterwards "I didn't know horse rescue was an option."

I hate to say it -- but it needs to be said -- in a state like Louisiana where racing is propped up by a casino/slots subsidy -- funding for the program needs to come out of the slots subsidy itself.


-jp

.

My only question here would be how long can horse rescue groups continue to buy horses? This seems like it would put quite a strain on them pretty quickly. I don't pretend to have the answers, but I think there would need to be a lot more rescue groups that were also getting funding from somewhere other than donations.

[Mulerider]

Jeff -- I agree that the La. racinos should chip in...without the horses they have no racinos.

Rescues can do only so much with their business model as currently structured, relying primarily on small donations from people who actually give a damn about the horses.

I posted my thoughts on permanent funding earlier in the thread. It will take a lot of money; IMO, every component of the industry should contribute to it.

Mule

[cj]

...every component of the industry should contribute to it.

Mule

I agree, other than I don't think bettors should have to be part of this unless they do so voluntarily. The price is too steep already. I'm not saying you think bettors should also pay, just adding my two cents.

[ultracapper]

Instead of throwing all that casino money into purses, a chunk should be designated for retired horses. Drop each casino fueled purse 3%, and you'd have millions annually to take care of these horses. Buy a couple ranches in the northern Rocky Mountain range and take care of literally thousands of horses, paid for by each push of the slot machine button.

[Mulerider]

I agree, other than I don't think bettors should have to be part of this unless they do so voluntarily. The price is too steep already. I'm not saying you think bettors should also pay, just adding my two cents.

CJ, I don't think bettors should have to pay, either, given current take levels.

But I think that any contribution that tracks were required to make would inevitably be passed on to us, anyway.

Without getting political, it's like my take on corporate taxes. Exxon, with its army of economists, accountants, and actuaries, can easily project what its annual corporate income tax will be. It's just an expense, like payroll or rent. Rest assured that Exxon's annual tax obligation is built in to to the price of every gallon you buy. And so it would be with any cost that tracks would be asked to pay.

Or, I suppose the contributions just be imposed upstream from the tracks.

Mule

[green80]

Green80, the same economic pressures exist everywhere else in the industry, and yet we're not hearing about similar numbers at tracks anywhere else. Pennsylvania might not be far behind, but it's not yet at La. level.

I live just across the Sabine River, so the Louisiana racing culture is somewhat familiar. You have backyard owners and "trainers", many of whom ship on race day and don't stall. The horses are commodities to be used in their "hobby." And when their hobby gets too expensive, the horses are disposed of as quickly and easily as possible.

Am I wrong?

By the way, have you ever run across Super Trainer George Williams, with his impressive 7 career wins out of 375 career starts record?

It is most likely these backyard trainers and owners that are going to the kiill pen. They do not have the resources to keep these horses that are non productive. I know the big trainers all have some of these backyard trainers that they give their "bad" horses to.

And no, I have never run across George Williams but I know some that are about as impressive.

[cutchemist42]

As a Louisiana horseman, I can say there are no widely known rescue buyers for ex-racehorses. If an owner has several horses that are non useful anymore as racehorses and a buyer or even a giveaway taker cannot be found, he may have no other option in order to get these horses out of the feed tub. If anyone knows of any rescue buyers that will take all of these horses, post it here. From what I see, most owners would prefer not to send horses to the kill buyers but sometimes they have no other choice. I hear of horses almost weekly that owners want to find a home but no takers other than kill buyers.

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?

[thaskalos]

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?

Because the Louisiana horsemen need the lousy 300-bucks. :rolleyes:

[Mulerider]

Because the Louisiana horsemen need the lousy 300-bucks. :rolleyes:

Don't be too harsh. It might have saved a bass boat from repossession.

[thaskalos]

Don't be too harsh. It might have saved a bass boat from repossession.

Many years ago...I used to share a table at a local OTB with Dave Feldman...who was a long-time thoroughbred owner/trainer, and also a handicapper/columnist for the Chicago Sun Times. In a moment of deep reflection...this is what Feldman solemnly admitted to me:

"Gus, if you met some of the people on the backstretch...then you'd never wager another dollar on a horse for the rest of your life".

It's taken me many years...but I am finally beginning to understand what Feldman meant.

[baconswitchfarm]

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?

In general , a vet will not put down a healthy animal because it is unwanted. I don't know of any rescue that will buy a horse directly from an owner. They only pay to get a horse from a killer buyer. But the killer buyers do now buy extra horses to sell to the rescues as a profit making enterprise. It is a disgusting cycle. By far the easiest solution seems to be to make it illegal to transport horses across the southern border.

[Tom]

What about taxing the breeders.
THEY breed these horses in the first place.
Do they not have a responsibility?

1%of every purse should go to taking care of the mess racing leaves behind.

[Mulerider]

This is Lucky Pierre, a 4-year-old gelded grandson of Unbridled. He is among the 24 horses rescued yesterday from Thompson's Kill Lot. He has a career record of 14: 1-2-2, avg. EPS $1,419.

His last trainer of record is Garrett Gautreaux, with 5 wins in 108 starts.

His last owner of record is Rox G. Pommier.

Here is Lucky Pierre after his win on 2/1/17.

21585

[Mulerider]

Eleven more for Jacob Thompson to use in his extortion business.

https://twitter.com/icareihelp/status/974387984710725633

[Jeff P]

By Frank Angst | March 15, 2018, 3:23 PM
Louisiana Horsemen Aim to Strengthen Aftercare Support:
https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/226515/louisiana-horsemen-aim-to-strengthen-aftercare-support

Lawmakers are considering changes after stories and social media posts showed Thoroughbreds who had raced at Delta Downs in kill pens. Industry groups also are rallying to put additional safety nets in place.

The issues in Louisiana proved a timely topic for a panel on aftercare at the National Horsemen's Benevolent and Protective Association convention March 15 in New Orleans.

Louisiana HBPA president Benard Chatters said his organization supports the proposed legislation, which would have all horsemen participate in a program of financial support for aftercare that could be based on a per-start basis or a commitment from purse earnings.



I guarantee you that industry stakeholders have read every post in this thread - and find the situation every bit as intolerable as I do.



-jp

.

[green80]

Because the Louisiana horsemen need the lousy 300-bucks. :rolleyes:

humane euthanasia -$150, kill buyer +$300, that's a $450 dollar swing on a backside where you couldn't find a $10 bill with a search warrant.

Then you have to pay somebody to haul off a dead horse.

[thaskalos]

humane euthanasia -$150, kill buyer +$300, that's a $450 dollar swing on a backside where you couldn't find a $10 bill with a search warrant.

Then you have to pay somebody to haul off a dead horse.

If a $10 bill is that scarce on the Louisiana backstretch...then the inhabitants thereof should find new hobbies, or new places of employment. Leave the game in the hands of those with some cash in their pockets.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why is humane euthanasia not an option then?Because it costs money...plus the cost of disposing of a rather large carcass.

I'm not excusing what is happening. Just explaining the mindset here...the guys that are dumping these horses probably aren't flush with cash...they are racing horses who can't run...and risking (however small the risk, apparently) getting caught selling to the killers because they probably can't afford to do anything else with these horses...and they aren't going to spend the time and effort they think it will take to find a home for them.

[Mulerider]

Because it costs money...plus the cost of disposing of a rather large carcass.

Just explaining the mindset here...the guys that are dumping these horses probably aren't flush with cash...they are racing horses who can't run...

I used to marvel at how Delta and Evangeline could have full 10-horse fields on a day when Belmont averaged six.

And now I know. It happens only through the most generous definition of "trainer" and "owner."

[Mulerider]

The gray horse you see in post #150, standing in Thompson's Kill Lot waiting for his trailer ride to Mexico three days from now, is Colt's Dream. A six-year-old maiden, this grandson of Secretariat raced at Delta Downs one week ago today. Three days later he went through Dominique's Livestock Auction, a facility widely known to be a favorite shopping facility for kill buyers. The high bidder was Jacob Thompson.

Clearly his connections made no attempt to re-home this horse; neither could these particular connections be considered "backyard." The trainer has over 11,000 starts. The owner has owned multiple horses for many years.

I find it highly unlikely that these connections were unaware that they were running this horse through a dangerous ring; I also think it is highly unlikely that they don't know Jacob Thompson either through reputation or on sight.

If either Jake E. Leger, trainer, or Taminy Doucet, owner, were present at this auction during the bidding then I believe it is likely that they were in violation on Delta's prohibition of selling a horse to slaughter, as defined in Rule 23 of Delta's 2017-2018 Thoroughbred Stall Application.

Not that Delta will investigate it when it's brought to their attention.

[jay68802]

The gray horse you see in post #150, standing in Thompson's Kill Lot waiting for his trailer ride to Mexico three days from now, is Colt's Dream. A six-year-old maiden, this grandson of Secretariat raced at Delta Downs one week ago today. Three days later he went through Dominique's Livestock Auction, a facility widely known to be a favorite shopping facility for kill buyers. The high bidder was Jacob Thompson.

Clearly his connections made no attempt to re-home this horse; neither could these particular connections be considered "backyard." The trainer has over 11,000 starts. The owner has owned multiple horses for many years.

I find it highly unlikely that these connections were unaware that they were running this horse through a dangerous ring; I also think it is highly unlikely that they don't know Jacob Thompson either through reputation or on sight.

If either Jake E. Leger, trainer, or Taminy Doucet, owner, were present at this auction during the bidding then I believe it is likely that they were in violation on Delta's prohibition of selling a horse to slaughter, as defined in Rule 23 of Delta's 2017-2018 Thoroughbred Stall Application.

Not that Delta will investigate it when it's brought to their attention.

Small correction, the horses name is Colt's Secret. And really do not care if they were at the auction or not. Both the owner and trainer have been in this business long enough to know what is happening.

[Mulerider]

Thanks, Jay. Colt's Secret and the other 10 in the kill lot have now been rescued.

You're right about the connections; I would just like confirmation that one or both were at the auction so I can press Delta on the matter.

Mule

[thaskalos]

In a kinder, more thoughtful world...Dina Alborado would be receiving Eclipse awards for the work that she does. :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

[Mulerider]

Small correction, the horses name is Colt's Secret. And really do not care if they were at the auction or not. Both the owner and trainer have been in this business long enough to know what is happening.

The owner of Colt's Secret, Taminy Doucet, apparently sold the horse to a Jesse Wimberly shortly after Colt's last race on Saturday the 10th. A couple of days later Colt's Secret was in Dominique's Livestock Auction in Opelousas, a notorious meat auction. Contacted by phone today, Wimberly said, "Yes, I wish I could have found a good home for him, but I just have too many..."

That statement, of course, begs the question of why he would buy another horse if he already has too many. A cynic might suggest that Doucet conspired with Wimberly to unload the horse for her so she could avoid sanction by Delta's no-slaughter rule, such as it is.

And I'm a cynic.

[jay68802]

Be a cynic, fine by me. I'm sure this probably happened with a lot, if not all the horses. The connections are just doing a end run around the rules in the state. May be the rule should be changed and hold the connections responsible for 90 days after the sale. Make the buyer have some money invested in feed and care, and the quick sale will not be as profitable.

[cj]

If that is what is happening, and I don't doubt it, it makes it even sadder. Surely the middle man is getting a cut, so these people are doing it for even less than $300.

[Mulerider]

One owner/trainer of a filly among the rescued Delta 24 said by phone yesterday, "She wasn't REALLY our racehorse; we were just a paper owner and paper trainer."

I'm not even sure what that means.

But it sounds like it has the potential to violate this:

§501. Fraudulent Registration of Horse: A. Any person or persons fraudulently registering, or attempting to fraudulently register, a thoroughbred with the Jockey Club of New York... shall be denied a license, or have his license revoked - Louisiana Racing Commission

Or am I misunderstanding?

[johnhannibalsmith]

...
Or am I misunderstanding?

Paper trainer meaning they don't really do anything other than lend their name for the sake of getting entered and then likely show up to saddle on race day. The person doing the 'training' has no license and likely isn't even on track. Also known as a 'beard'.

[Mulerider]

Yes, I get the training part... it's the "paper owner" I don't understand. Are they saying they registered the horse in their names with the JC, but the horse actually belongs to someone else? I can't imagine that the JC registration process doesn't require some sort of affidavit in which the applicant must attest to actual ownership, but I really know nothing about the registration procedure.

Mule

[johnhannibalsmith]

Yes, I get the training part... it's the "paper owner" I don't understand. Are they saying they registered the horse in their names with the JC, but the horse actually belongs to someone else? I can't imagine that the JC registration process doesn't require some sort of affidavit in which the applicant must attest to actual ownership, but I really know nothing about the registration procedure.

Mule

I don't know either specifically, I just took it to mean that the actual owner (or owner/trainer likely) was unlicensed for whatever reason. Whatever the actual scenario, it says a lot for the enforcement in that jurisdiction that you'd get the impression that the connections aren't even aware that there is a rule violation or two involved in that arrangement. Big fields!

[jay68802]

It means a lot. It means that they do not care about the regulations or the sport in general. It means that they care for only themselves and if they are caught, they are not responsible. It means they are only in it for the money...

[cj]

Louisiana has long been a cesspool for horse racing. This is the just the latest (and worst) in a poor history.

Whatever happened to those jockeys that tried to fix the five horse race, anyway? I really don't remember. One of them was the guy from the Arkansas Derby buzzer incident. I think it was two Patin's and a Conyers.

[Hambletonian]

Let's face it, the hard cold reality is, few equines, wild or not, die of old age.

We breed a ton of horses in this country, and there are only so many farms to retire them to. And how many backyard horse owners treat their horses well? How many backyard owners keep pleasure horses from cradle to grave?Especially when it is often times cheaper to procure a new horse then patch up an injured one.

And then we have racehorses, many of whom are retired with a variety of injuries that a) will require lifetime monitoring if not treatment b) could seriously reduce what they can be used for as a second career.

We all are happy when we hear an old warrior retired, but unless they end up at Old Friends or somewhere like it we rarely here what happens to them.

The only horses here that can expect a somewhat soft landing are the steeplechasers, since they are by and large owned and/or trainer by horse people. Many are used for pleasure riding during their racing career, which in many cases extend past their tenth birthday,and the community as a whole seems to be able to absorb the number of horses that drop out. But keep in mind the number of steeplechasers here is in the hundreds, not thousands.

Racing here is a business, not a sport, as contrasted with the UK, where horses run for low purses and training costs are not cheap.

I think it is disingenuous to pretend their is a solution to this problem that exists today that just isn't being utilized. The scope is just too large.

If we reduced the number of foals per year drastically, then used microchipping and a lifetime health card to keep track of all injuries, medical procedures etc, and most importantly, made that info publicly available, you might be able to get to a point where a decent number of horses could have a soft landing. But we would also need an industry where horses had a decent chance of retiring sound. And would still need a policy to deal with the unsound horses. As many have mentioned, euthanasia would be more humane then slaughter, but their are way to many undercapitalized owners who don't want to pay more to dispose of a horse.

I actually think this will all be moot within our lifetimes, and I am in my early fifties. I fully expect that racing will continue to diminish every year, and we may actually end up with a manageable number of thoroughbreds to deal with.

[cj]

I think most people understand this. The problem is with the slaughter. If you can't afford to humanely dispose of a horse you shouldn't be an owner. Of course tracks don't want to lose owners, but you can't have this kind of stuff going on and expect to survive as a sport in current times.

[owlshead]

Hambletonian (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=25686) - well written post, really made me think! i am around your age, 55. first started following with: Riva Ridge back in the early 70s

[castaway01]

If we reduced the number of foals per year drastically, then used microchipping and a lifetime health card to keep track of all injuries, medical procedures etc, and most importantly, made that info publicly available, you might be able to get to a point where a decent number of horses could have a soft landing. But we would also need an industry where horses had a decent chance of retiring sound. And would still need a policy to deal with the unsound horses. As many have mentioned, euthanasia would be more humane then slaughter, but their are way to many undercapitalized owners who don't want to pay more to dispose of a horse.

I actually think this will all be moot within our lifetimes, and I am in my early fifties. I fully expect that racing will continue to diminish every year, and we may actually end up with a manageable number of thoroughbreds to deal with.

We HAVE reduced the number of foals, very rapidly, in the past decade. It's part of the reason fields are so short everywhere. There is always going to be a percentage of those horses who are not cared for properly. You'll always have irresponsible owners or those who try their best but don't have the funds.

The main differences between now and 30 years ago are that it's easier to find out when animals end up getting treated the way they have in Louisiana (because of Twitter and whatnot) and people are more sensitive to it than they used to be. In this case, I think the fact people actually care is a good thing.

[Frost king]

The real answer to this problem, lies with the Jockey Club. If they wanted, they could fix the problem tomorrow. Just charge the Breeders of the horse an amount that would cover the euthanasia and disposal of the horse, upon the registeration of the papers, and the problem is solved. Then who ever owns the horse at the end, fills out the papers and gets the credit back from the jockey club. This would help to curtail, the guy who happens to own a stallion and a few mares from breeding “Slow Rats” and then running them a few times and sending them off to slaughter.

[jay68802]

Louisiana has long been a cesspool for horse racing. This is the just the latest (and worst) in a poor history.

Whatever happened to those jockeys that tried to fix the five horse race, anyway? I really don't remember. One of them was the guy from the Arkansas Derby buzzer incident. I think it was two Patin's and a Conyers.

Suspended.

[cj]

Suspended.

Yeah, I know they aren't riding, but I believe the were charged with a crime and maybe even indicted. Haven't heard anything in while though.

[Cholly]

The real answer to this problem, lies with the Jockey Club. If they wanted, they could fix the problem tomorrow. Just charge the Breeders of the horse an amount that would cover the euthanasia and disposal of the horse, upon the registeration of the papers, and the problem is solved. Then who ever owns the horse at the end, fills out the papers and gets the credit back from the jockey club. This would help to curtail, the guy who happens to own a stallion and a few mares from breeding “Slow Rats” and then running them a few times and sending them off to slaughter.

Sounds sensible. Get the money up front when, for the Owners of the would-be next Triple Crown winner, all seems promise and possibility.

[Mulerider]

Louisiana has long been a cesspool for horse racing. This is the just the latest (and worst) in a poor history.


Trying to make sense of the registration/ownership in La. is like trying to untangle a backlash on a bait-casting fishing reel.

Three of the first 24 Delta horses rescued this week were bred by Danny Brown, Brown's Thoroughbred Farm.

Equibase shows the owner of one of those, MY REVENGE, as Agular Stables. Equibase shows Agular Stables having only one horse, My Revenge, which last raced in 2013.

However, the horse's most current registration was mailed to Danny Brown...so, if Agular Stables sold the horse back to Danny Brown, why is this not reflected on Equibase?

I'm still trying to understand the "paper owner" deal. And this looks like it might be one, at least to me. Maybe there's a legitimate explanation. I don't know.

[cj]

I'm still trying to understand the "paper owner" deal. And this looks like it might be one, at least to me. Maybe there's a legitimate explanation. I don't know.

I seriously doubt it is on the up and up.

[Mulerider]

I seriously doubt it is on the up and up.

Of course not. Especially when you're dealing with people who would do the following. Ponder that these tattoos are inside the lip.

"As we wait for our group of 11, for those inquiring, Im in the process of organizing a thorough list of all rescues' names, trainers, owners, last race, etc. Sadly, some tattoos have been altered/mutilated (possibly w a cutting instrument) in an attempt to thwart a trail back😢"

[jay68802]

I'm not sure about this, but I think the Jockey Club requires DNA to get registered. If they do, maybe they would be able to help on ID's.

[PaceAdvantage]

I doubt it...it takes money to run DNA tests...

[Mulerider]

I doubt it...it takes money to run DNA tests...

It appears the Jockey Club does require DNA at time of registration (mane hair).

I too figured running DNA tests would be prohibitively expensive, but someone posted on another site last night that the cost was around $90 through the JC. I found an independent service that charges $38.

https://vetdnacenter.com/dna-tests/equine-dna-testing-services/equine-dna-profiling/

Mule

[outofthebox]

Yeah, I know they aren't riding, but I believe the were charged with a crime and maybe even indicted. Haven't heard anything in while though.Haven't seen the Conyers kid around town, but the Patin brothers are galloping at local farms and breaking yearlings. Have no idea what happened with the criminal end of the situation.

[jay68802]

The criminal part of their situation is either still pending or is not being followed up on. The only information that I can find is that they were facing charges.

[jay68802]

I doubt it...it takes money to run DNA tests...

I think that that part of it could be overcome.

[Fager Fan]

Trying to make sense of the registration/ownership in La. is like trying to untangle a backlash on a bait-casting fishing reel.

Three of the first 24 Delta horses rescued this week were bred by Danny Brown, Brown's Thoroughbred Farm.

Equibase shows the owner of one of those, MY REVENGE, as Agular Stables. Equibase shows Agular Stables having only one horse, My Revenge, which last raced in 2013.

However, the horse's most current registration was mailed to Danny Brown...so, if Agular Stables sold the horse back to Danny Brown, why is this not reflected on Equibase?

I'm still trying to understand the "paper owner" deal. And this looks like it might be one, at least to me. Maybe there's a legitimate explanation. I don't know.

What do you mean about the horse's most current registration? There's only one registration, which is at birth. Any notation on who the papers were sent to are for that horse at birth (most often sent to where the mare is boarded as they're usually the ones who pull the hair and fill out the registration forms for themselves or their clients).

[Parson]

as an owner, to the best of my knowledge, none of the horses we have registered have had to have DNA. However, we have only purchased 2 yr olds and yearlings. We have never bred so the registration has been completed when we come into the picture.

Not sure exactly how it works, but the registration must be accurate at time of entry. I just went in on half of a horse that ran yesterday in LA. My name was left out of the program because we bought him privately and there was not enough time to send the papers to me here in KY and send them back to LA in time for the entry date of yesterday's race.

[Fager Fan]

as an owner, to the best of my knowledge, none of the horses we have registered have had to have DNA. However, we have only purchased 2 yr olds and yearlings. We have never bred so the registration has been completed when we come into the picture.

All are DNA tested, which is done to get registration, so yes, it was done by the breeder of the horses you purchased.

[Parson]

I figured as much. I would like to try and breed one or two in a few years, but that will have to wait.

[Mulerider]

What do you mean about the horse's most current registration? There's only one registration, which is at birth. Any notation on who the papers were sent to are for that horse at birth (most often sent to where the mare is boarded as they're usually the ones who pull the hair and fill out the registration forms for themselves or their clients).

Yes, I think it was the original registration that was mailed to Brown. Yet the owner is listed as another party. From what I gather, the breeder is claiming to not be involved with racing, only breeding, yet Equibase lists him as owner of 4 horses that have run 5 races in 2018, 2@DED and 3@FG. Trying to figure that one out.

[Mulerider]

From Rick Porter's new organization:

"It's been a few weeks since the announcement of the formation of our organization, so we want to update on what we've been doing.

First, we are thrilled with the people we are putting into our organization. Ecstatic, really. We weren't looking for just names to plug into a spot, but good people who have a deep passion and desire to be part of this. We'll announce some positions soon, but we couldn't have any better people helping us and we're so grateful and blessed to have them coming on board with us.

As previously noted, we are starting our efforts in Louisiana. Louisiana represents the "perfect storm." They have a state-bred program that results in a substantial number of horses being bred, but they don't have much in the way of resources to rehome these horses at the end of their careers. They are near the Mexican border, and they have two notorious "kill buyers" -- Thompson/Sanders and the Stanleys -- operating in close proximity.

There have been many good people working on the problem in Louisiana for many years. We feel for them as we've seen just a little of what they've been up against. When we make the progress we intend to make in the coming months, it is due to some very smart and savvy and dedicated people who have been fighting the good fight over the past years.

We filed for our 501(c)3 status in January, and are somewhat impatiently awaiting approval. We strongly believe in public accountability and transparency when one obtains public funding. We will not accept any donations until we can guarantee our contributors that their donations are tax-deductible. While we may be "chomping at the bit," the reality is that we've needed this time to put the right people into place, talk to the tracks, racing commission and others, find suitable farms for rehab and layups, get our website ready, and more. We have to have the proper foundation to build upon.

We have tried to respond to all who have reached out to us. If we missed someone, we apologize and ask that you contact us again. We thank you for your support."

[Fager Fan]

Yes, I think it was the original registration that was mailed to Brown. Yet the owner is listed as another party. From what I gather, the breeder is claiming to not be involved with racing, only breeding, yet Equibase lists him as owner of 4 horses that have run 5 races in 2018, 2@DED and 3@FG. Trying to figure that one out.



It sounds like one of two things, either the owner/breeder was a client of Brown's at the time of the birth (and the mare was boarded at Brown's and they were handling the registration), or the breeding entity is another entity or partnership of Brown. The latter isn't uncommon, and it's not illegal. It could be the stable or breeding entity of Brown, or one of a number of partnership stable or breeding entities that includes Brown.

[Mulerider]

It sounds like one of two things, either the owner/breeder was a client of Brown's at the time of the birth (and the mare was boarded at Brown's and they were handling the registration), or the breeding entity is another entity or partnership of Brown. The latter isn't uncommon, and it's not illegal. It could be the stable or breeding entity of Brown, or one of a number of partnership stable or breeding entities that includes Brown.

Thanks. I think if anything it's the former. And may be a boarding deal. Breeder is listed at Equibase as Agular Stables, which appears to have only one horse. At any rate, that one horse, My Revenge, was just pulled from Thompson's Kill Lot.

[green80]

the problem is that once the owner/trainer/breeder sells a horse to a third party, the previous owner has no control as to what this buyer does with the horse. You may sell your horse to someone that convinces you that they have the best of intentions for the horse and then the horse winds up at the kill pen a few days later.

[Mulerider]

the problem is that once the owner/trainer/breeder sells a horse to a third party, the previous owner has no control as to what this buyer does with the horse. You may sell your horse to someone that convinces you that they have the best of intentions for the horse and then the horse winds up at the kill pen a few days later.

Under Tampa Bay's no-slaughter rule the language says an owner can not sell a horse for slaughter either "directly or indirectly." The use of "indirectly" at least should incentivize the owner to do a little due diligence on the buyer.

[Mulerider]

the problem is that once the owner/trainer/breeder sells a horse to a third party, the previous owner has no control as to what this buyer does with the horse. You may sell your horse to someone that convinces you that they have the best of intentions for the horse and then the horse winds up at the kill pen a few days later.

Green80, if Delta/Evangeline won't incorporate Tampa's language into their no-slaughter policy, what do you think of this idea?

1. When any horse is sold, the verified name of the purchaser must be submitted to the track, which maintains a list of sold horses and their buyers.

2. If any such horse appears in a meat auction or kill lot, upon notification the track will add the buyer's name to a publicly posted document readily available to all connections.

3. If any connection subsequently sells a horse to any buyer posted on the aforementioned list, the connections will lose stall and racing privileges.

Will this end horses ending up in kill lots? Of course not. Could it make life more difficult for the backside meat man? Maybe.

[Fager Fan]

Green80, if Delta/Evangeline won't incorporate Tampa's language into their no-slaughter policy, what do you think of this idea?

1. When any horse is sold, the verified name of the purchaser must be submitted to the track, which maintains a list of sold horses and their buyers.

2. If any such horse appears in a meat auction or kill lot, upon notification the track will add the buyer's name to a publicly posted document readily available to all connections.

3. If any connection subsequently sells a horse to any buyer posted on the aforementioned list, the connections will lose stall and racing privileges.

Will this end horses ending up in kill lots? Of course not. Could it make life more difficult for the backside meat man? Maybe.

The track has nothing to do with registrations. Besides, most horses' papers aren't on file at the track when given away or sold.

The auction buyers are somewhat irrelevant given that there's usually a middleman between the owner and auction buyer.

[green80]

There simply has to be a way to get rid of racehorses that are no longer wanted. When I have a horse that is not longer useful as a racehorse I make every effort to sell it or even give it away to someone that will do something with it other than send it to the killer. Sometime it takes months. These rescue buyers will buy one from the killpen but won't even take one from an owner. Unless you have been there you may not know, but there is another side to the story when it comes to cutting your losses on a racehorse.

[Mulerider]

The track has nothing to do with registrations. Besides, most horses' papers aren't on file at the track when given away or sold.

The auction buyers are somewhat irrelevant given that there's usually a middleman between the owner and auction buyer.

I'm not talking about registrations. Example:

Fager Fan races at Delta Downs, has a horse he wants to sell, and finds a buyer, Mulerider. Fager sells the horse to Mulerider, after verifying Mulerider's ID.

Mulerider assures Fager that he will give the horse a nice permanent home, but Mulerider is actually a middleman for Jacob Thompson.

Fager notifies Delta Downs of the sale, including the name of the horse and the buyer. The track keeps a simple log of such sales, each of which takes about two minutes to enter into Excel.

A week later a rescue organization spots the horse at Thompson's Kill Lot and identifies it. The rescue notifies the track of the discovery. The track consults its log, and identifies Mulerider as the purchaser of Fager's horse, which is now in the slaughter pipeline.

The track immediately adds Mulerider's name to a list of buyers that all current owners and trainers are prohibited from selling a horse to, under penalty of losing stall or racing privileges. The track makes that list available to connections at all times on its website, in the racing secretary's office, and prominently posted on the backside.

If an owner or trainer fails to notify Delta of a sale that occurs after this rule has gone into effect, and that horse is subsequently found in a slaughter facility, the owner or trainer will be presumed to have directly sold the horse to slaughter, and will face the sanctions mentioned above.

I admit that this is an unconventional approach to reducing the number of backside meat buyers. But it is at least an effort to find a partial solution to a problem that Delta has shown no interest in addressing.

[Fager Fan]

I'm not talking about registrations. Example:

Fager Fan races at Delta Downs, has a horse he wants to sell, and finds a buyer, Mulerider. Fager sells the horse to Mulerider, after verifying Mulerider's ID.

Mulerider assures Fager that he will give the horse a nice permanent home, but Mulerider is actually a middleman for Jacob Thompson.

Fager notifies Delta Downs of the sale, including the name of the horse and the buyer. The track keeps a simple log of such sales, each of which takes about two minutes to enter into Excel.

A week later a rescue organization spots the horse at Thompson's Kill Lot and identifies it. The rescue notifies the track of the discovery. The track consults its log, and identifies Mulerider as the purchaser of Fager's horse, which is now in the slaughter pipeline.

The track immediately adds Mulerider's name to a list of buyers that all current owners and trainers are prohibited from selling a horse to, under penalty of losing stall or racing privileges. The track makes that list available to connections at all times on its website, in the racing secretary's office, and prominently posted on the backside.

If an owner or trainer fails to notify Delta of a sale that occurs after this rule has gone into effect, and that horse is subsequently found in a slaughter facility, the owner or trainer will be presumed to have directly sold the horse to slaughter, and will face the sanctions mentioned above.

I admit that this is an unconventional approach to reducing the number of backside meat buyers. But it is at least an effort to find a partial solution to a problem that Delta has shown no interest in addressing.

Okay, I understand what you're saying, but think there are still a couple problematic spots. Transfer/sales and deaths are completely at the owner's discretion once its racing career is over. The JC doesn't require that it be notified in the event of either. I don't know if the tracks or the JC can require that the owner perform a specific duty (in this case fill out a specific contract and requiring of ID of the buyer) on what is at that point a retired racehorse. The other problem is that there isn't just one track to notify of a slaughter buyer or middle man's identity, but really all tracks.

[Mulerider]

Good read:

24 Pieces of Property (https://thevaulthorseracing.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/24-pieces-of-property/)

Excerpt:

'But the problem here is that some owners, race tracks and trainers don’t play by the rules, as the 24 thoroughbreds filmed in the Thompson kill lot, marked “direct ship,” attest. In their specific case, it is fair to speculate that at least one individual on the Delta Downs backstretch, with the support of owners and trainers and the collusion of Delta Downs, is prepared to get thoroughbreds off the track and out of the country without a single thought to their rehabilitation and re-homing."

"However, for “The 24” in a kill lot in Louisiana on March 9, 2018, none of these arguments mattered. Many were youngsters and most were terrified. Some just hung their heads, sensing that something new and not very good was happening to them."



Mule

(P.S. -- All 24 of these horses were rescued.)

[jay68802]

Good read:

24 Pieces of Property (https://thevaulthorseracing.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/24-pieces-of-property/)

Excerpt:

'But the problem here is that some owners, race tracks and trainers don’t play by the rules, as the 24 thoroughbreds filmed in the Thompson kill lot, marked “direct ship,” attest. In their specific case, it is fair to speculate that at least one individual on the Delta Downs backstretch, with the support of owners and trainers and the collusion of Delta Downs, is prepared to get thoroughbreds off the track and out of the country without a single thought to their rehabilitation and re-homing."

"However, for “The 24” in a kill lot in Louisiana on March 9, 2018, none of these arguments mattered. Many were youngsters and most were terrified. Some just hung their heads, sensing that something new and not very good was happening to them."



Mule

(P.S. -- All 24 of these horses were rescued.)

The problem is, they do follow the rules. It is just the rules, by design, have a hole they can drive a truck through. The reason the rules are wrote the way they are, is so the track, owners and trainers can all say we followed the rules and point the finger elsewhere.

[Mulerider]

The problem is, they do follow the rules. It is just the rules, by design, have a hole they can drive a truck through. The reason the rules are wrote the way they are, is so the track, owners and trainers can all say we followed the rules and point the finger elsewhere.

The problem with Delta is that it makes up the rules at it goes. On Delta's Twitter page is a pinned tweet that promises punishment for any owner or trainer that "knowingly" sells a horse to slaughter. But Delta's slaughter policy as outlined in its current stall agreement does not contain any reference to "knowingly," nor does any other Delta document so far as I can tell.

Delta aside, some tracks have much tougher language. Tampa Bay's policy, for instance, states that connections may not sell a horse to slaughter either directly or INDIRECTLY, and that connections must perform due diligence checks on any person that purchases their horses.

Big difference.

[martini]

The posts and rescue efforts documented here are wonderful. There are so many good people doing good work, and they should be applauded--really, heroes! I get that we cannot retrain and find homes for every horse. But if an owner cannot be held responsible to humanely euthanize an unwanted horse, but sends he/she to slaughter, the owner needs to be banned from the sport in all states.

In terms of public perception, what has happened at Delta Downs is the kind of stuff that makes even horesplayers realize that the sport is headed to the level of whales at SeaWorld or elephants at the circus (i.e., an old, bygone era). I love the game, as well as the sport, but so many of the people in it are garbage. The slaughter issue needs to be cleaned up at every track, so the good apples can help revive the sport's image. And there are many good people in the sport, for sure.

[Mulerider]

Don't have all the details, but one is a filly, not quite four, named APT TO SMILE. She last raced at Evangeline on May 26, 2017.

Her lifetime record was 4:1-2-0.

Here she is on the track:

21642

Here she is at Thomson's Kill Lot last night. Note the eyes. That's Jacob Thompson standing behind her.

21643

[Denny]

Anyone interested in this thread should read Mark Berner's current piece at HorseRaceInsider.

Its part 1 of a planned three part series on this topic.

[Mulerider]

OLE DOC was a Delta/Evangeline workhorse. A 6-year-old gelding, he was last trained, according to Equibase, by Doris Hebert. His last owner was Robert J. Esponge, Jr.

OLE DOC had a lifetime record of 28:5-4-4, with earnings of $102,485. His last race was on Jan. 3 at Delta Downs.

A couple of weeks after that race he was standing in Thompson's Kill Lot. OLE DOC was one of the original Delta 11 rescued this year.

Life is a little better now for OLE DOC. He's a resident of the Secretariat Center (https://www.secretariatcenter.org/) in Kentucky, a re-schooling facilty, and apparently is pretty popular with staff and visitors.

https://twitter.com/mmsc04/status/980135771620470785

[clicknow]

When you have a $4K claimer that can't hit the board and will never be claimed with zero breeding value, what are you supposed to do as an owner? Keep eating the cost? Make him a family pet? l.


A certain amount of $$ is taken out for aftercare, isn't it?.

I have no problem with these being humanely euthanized.

But to ship them to Mexico, in trailers, to the kill lot, where many of them are bitten, injured, terrified on the way, and some arrive at the kill lot in very bad shape or dead.......it doesn't seem the way to treat these beings who have carried humans on their backs and worked hard.


Call the vet and spare these horses the ultimate terror and horrific "end of life" that many of them face.

[Mulerider]

https://twitter.com/mmsc04/status/980177722998771714

[Fager Fan]

Don't have all the details, but one is a filly, not quite four, named APT TO SMILE. She last raced at Evangeline on May 26, 2017.

Her lifetime record was 4:1-2-0.

Here she is on the track:

21642

Here she is at Thomson's Kill Lot last night. Note the eyes. That's Jacob Thompson standing behind her.

21643

In fairness, that's how any horse looks when turning its eyes but not its head. But a horse ending up in Thompson's lot, where he barely feeds them or give minimal care while he plays his extortion game, is not where anyone wants to see a horse end up. I'm glad to see any horse not in his hands, but he uses the bail money to do it all over again. There are a lot of "rescues" that are fronts for Thompson to sell his horses, with the "rescues" putting money into their pockets. It's all a disgusting racket, with the poor horses used as pawns.

[Mulerider]

NYRA teams with TAA to support aftercare (https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/226813/nyra-teams-with-taa-to-support-aftercare)

[Mulerider]

Anyone interested in this thread should read Mark Berner's current piece at HorseRaceInsider.

Its part 1 of a planned three part series on this topic.

Denny, Part 2 was posted today. (http://www.horseraceinsider.com/Inside-New-York/comments/04042018-racehorse-retirement-rehabilitation-retraining-rehoming-and-rescue/)

A short excerpt, and thumbs up to trainer Graham Motion:

"People inside the industry have added to the funds collected via Alborano’s social-media appeals. Some who have contributed are owners Amad Zayat, Rich Papeise, Michael Cannon and Mike Schera, and trainer Graham Motion, who places neon green stickers on the racing papers of his horses that read:

“HERINGSWELL STABLES LTD. If this horse ever needs a home, call 410.398.0090. This horse was not bred for slaughter.”

[Denny]

Mulerider,

Another well done piece by Mark Berner, and getting a lot of comments too!

All here should check it out.

Denny

[cutchemist42]

https://twitter.com/urbanhorsedoc/status/982953867271864320

The only way to stop excessive breeding is to take away the
financial incentive that slaughter provides & then to back rigid enforcement of existing cruelty laws. We cannot wish our way out of abuse and neglect
any more than we can slaughter our way out of it.
John Holland

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/op-ed-whats-it-gonna-be-big-tent-or-elite-circuit/#.WsIpfgBaBQ5.twitter

I don’t think so. I say bigger in this case is better. One of the best things about racing is that any Joe Schmo with a fast horse can beat a hedge fund manager with a purple-pedigreed animal. There is something more egalitarian about this aspect of the game that sets it apart from other sporting ventures.

Aside from my love of the animal itself, this David knocking off Goliath factor is what drove me toward the game, both writing about it and participating in it.

Watching a bunch of horses owned and bred by a bunch of rich people for their own amusement holds very little appeal to me personally. I am certain that I would enjoy the contests, but not the backdrop or the stories behind the horses. I guess that’s why yacht racing never appealed to me.

The problem with involving everybody is the same one America faces in its politics at present. Trying to get the so-called “haves” and “have-nots” on the same page is practically impossible. Most racing in America involves average to marginal athletes.


https://twitter.com/HorseJeff/status/982311949647020032

Though, I'd make the argument, that when Thoroughbred ownership is limited to the wealthy--who don't need to "make a buck" on their animals--trainers will be more patient, not rush the horse along, avoid injuries, etc. Imo the problem...

2/2) is that horse ownership consists of too many small time players, syndicates, etc. When the Whitneys & Vanderbilts & Riddles ran racing the problems were fewer. Respectfully, just my opinion.

1 reply 1 retweet 2 likes

[cutchemist42]

Kinda speaks to Alex Brown's point of there being simply too many tracks.

[Fager Fan]

Kinda speaks to Alex Brown's point of there being simply too many tracks.

Even Stevie Wonder can see this.

Just think of it this way. If you could buy tb racing and you're the new CEO, what would you do immediately? You'd close all the underperforming tracks and consolidate your resources (trainers and horses) to the more successful tracks in order to have larger fields.

Instead, in this disjointed sport, everyone is out for their own survival.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Kinda speaks to Alex Brown's point of there being simply too many tracks.

Say you arbitrarily divide racetracks into A (e.g., Santa Anita, Del Mar, NYRA tracks, winter meet at Gulstream), B (e.g., Laurel, Delaware, Parx) and C tracks (e.g., Arapahoe Park, Rilito, Hazel Park). The C tracks are either racing horses from local owners, or horses that physically can't compete at better tracks. If you closed all the C tracks, there probably aren't more than 5% of the horses that could be successful at an A track. Closing those tracks wouldn't have much of an effect on racing's problems.

Probably more than 50% of the horses at B tracks could be competitive at an A track. As harsh as it sounds, it would be better for racing if some of the B tracks closed. If there were 20-22 tracks distributed by time zone, I'd be willing to bet there would be a lot more races filled with better horses and the sport would prosper.

Just an opinion.

[cutchemist42]

Say you arbitrarily divide racetracks into A (e.g., Santa Anita, Del Mar, NYRA tracks, winter meet at Gulstream), B (e.g., Laurel, Delaware, Parx) and C tracks (e.g., Arapahoe Park, Rilito, Hazel Park). The C tracks are either racing horses from local owners, or horses that physically can't compete at better tracks. If you closed all the C tracks, there probably aren't more than 5% of the horses that could be successful at an A track. Closing those tracks wouldn't have much of an effect on racing's problems.

Probably more than 50% of the horses at B tracks could be competitive at an A track. As harsh as it sounds, it would be better for racing if some of the B tracks closed. If there were 20-22 tracks distributed by time zone, I'd be willing to bet there would be a lot more races filled with better horses and the sport would prosper.

Just an opinion.

When you compare population to amount of tracks, how would the USA compare to Europe/Australia/Japan?

[cutchemist42]

I also simply think that if we are going to slaughter horses, they are just as sentient as other animals that have actually more humane legislation regarding their slaughter. Instead horse slaughter is essentially lawless.

NO human should be eating sport horse meat. The medication is really bad for humans and it sickens Mexico is exporting this meat to places that dont know better.

Horse slaughter in Canada has dropped a lot because we actually require 6 months of the horse living on Canadian agricultural standards before being exported.

Mexican horse slaughter standards is just scum, and no one should be eating that meat.

[Mulerider]

I also simply think that if we are going to slaughter horses, they are just as sentient as other animals that have actually more humane legislation regarding their slaughter. Instead horse slaughter is essentially lawless.

NO human should be eating sport horse meat. The medication is really bad for humans and it sickens Mexico is exporting this meat to places that dont know better.

Horse slaughter in Canada has dropped a lot because we actually require 6 months of the horse living on Canadian agricultural standards before being exported.

Mexican horse slaughter standards is just scum, and no one should be eating that meat.

Well said, cutchemist. I looked through the links you posted. I was particularly struck by this quote:

"Animals are more than ever a test of our character, of mankind's capacity for empathy and for decent, honorable conduct and faithful stewardship. We are called to treat them with kindness, not because they have rights or power or some claim to equality, but in a sense because they don't; because they all stand unequal and powerless before us." -- Matthew Scully

[Fager Fan]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/chicken-houses-and-horse-rescue-a-complicated-tale/

The Dina train just derailed. Lying about being a 501(c)3 is just a part of it.

[Mulerider]

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/chicken-houses-and-horse-rescue-a-complicated-tale/

The Dina train just derailed. Lying about being a 501(c)3 is just a part of it.

I don't think her website ever claimed to be a 501, did it? She would be much better served, in my opinion, to obtain that status, along with the requisite transparency.

At any rate, her critics -- who've been saying "we're working on it" for years -- will need to have better rescue ideas than what they've heretofore proposed, or else the Mexico Express from Delta/Evangeline will continue in perpetuity.

[cutchemist42]

I don't think her website ever claimed to be a 501, did it? She would be much better served, in my opinion, to obtain that status, along with the requisite transparency.

At any rate, her critics -- who've been saying "we're working on it" for years -- will need to have better rescue ideas than what they've heretofore proposed, or else the Mexico Express from Delta/Evangeline will continue in perpetuity.

Yeah Dina responded to this as well.

https://www.icareihelp.com/in-response-to-ray-paulick


I mean, I think are decent points on both sides. I will say that I really think Dina has a point, some of those other organizations dont really seem to show a lot of success stories. It does make me wonder where the money is going.

I at least see the horses Dina has pulled out of the killpens, even if she did pay a markup from a shitty person.

[Mulerider]

I mean, I think are decent points on both sides. I will say that I really think Dina has a point, some of those other organizations dont really seem to show a lot of success stories. It does make me wonder where the money is going.

I at least see the horses Dina has pulled out of the killpens, even if she did pay a markup from a shitty person.

Yes. And the catfighting on social media is beyond ridiculous. I'm still waiting on an industry entity with clout to put the hammer down on Boyd Gaming, whose intransigence on enforcing its own slaughter policy is the source of this mess. Delta management must be thrilled with the Paulick article, since it takes the focus off their own negligence.

[zawaaa]

I will say that I really think Dina has a point, some of those other organizations dont really seem to show a lot of success stories. It does make me wonder where the money is going.

That's ridiculous.

I do think you can say that she's tackling this problem in a much different way; i'm certainly a big supporter of anybody that's making an effort to help horses in need.

I also simply think that if we are going to slaughter horses, they are just as sentient as other animals that have actually more humane legislation regarding their slaughter.

The vast majority of horses end up unwanted; it's the unfortunate nature of this business.

There are no good answers. Contraction's a blessing only in the sense that this not entirely grand-old-game is a little closer to it's demise. Which i suppose is mostly for the best.

[cj]

Yes. And the catfighting on social media is beyond ridiculous. I'm still waiting on an industry entity with clout to put the hammer down on Boyd Gaming, whose intransigence on enforcing its own slaughter policy is the source of this mess. Delta management must be thrilled with the Paulick article, since it takes the focus off their own negligence.

Well said. Forgetting all the fighting going on currently, the horses were still cast aside for a nominal fee and were going to be slaughtered.

[Mulerider]

Fourteen days since the end of the Fairgrounds meet, and six FG runners are in Thompson's Kill Lot right now.

[zawaaa]

the ugly underside of our favorite sport, indeed

[Denny]

If you stop to really think.

Between the "Ugly Underside" and the "Ugly Frontside"- like fatal breakdowns right in front of the fans, not to mention all the other stuff going on on the backside, it's somewhat surprising that this "sport" continues to even exist.

[cutchemist42]

If you stop to really think.

Between the "Ugly Underside" and the "Ugly Frontside"- like fatal breakdowns right in front of the fans, not to mention all the other stuff going on on the backside, it's somewhat surprising that this "sport" continues to even exist.

I dont think the sport has a future really despite liking it. The same reasons greyhound racing is being phased out applies as equally to horse racing.

Im surprised there doesnt exist a Blackfish-esque documentary yet.

[Fager Fan]

Fourteen days since the end of the Fairgrounds meet, and six FG runners are in Thompson's Kill Lot right now.

Are you sure they're former FG runners? I looked one up and he didn't race last at FG, and one is a 2yo unraced horse.

This has been the problem with Dina and her fans, a lack of accuracy and accountability. Like Dina tweeting about 3 horses going to some person in Indiana, but no identification of which 3 they are.

What happened to the pretty gray horse that everyone was clamoring over? There is no sign of him, no picture of him in the 29 photos that were supposedly taken of all the horses there just a week or so ago. No announcement of who he went to. Where is the pregnant mare who was supposedly about to give birth in late Feb? The explanation is frankly unbelievable. When pressed on her after the Paulick Report article, she says now that the mare wasn't pregnant after all. Really? How do you possibly confuse a mare about to give birth any day with one not pregnant? What kind of vet care are these horses getting?

Dina really, really needs to post a spreadsheet of every horse she has pulled since she started last November, along with the name (barn name if not registered), and where they currently are.

The lack of proper information from Dina is astounding. Including all money received. And Hal? Why would any rescue who cares about its reputation work with a man who worked with Stanleys, who called them in a FB post "good people" who are "like family?" Hal still posts horses just like he did at Stanleys, that this horse needs someone to bail for X amount else it's going to sale "or worse." So what happened to them? Did he take them to auction for JT or Stanleys to get them or not? Why do none of her fans demand accountability from Dina and Hal?

[Mulerider]

I have spoken to Dina and told her that my best advice to her is to stay on top of things, find good homes for the horses she already has in her possession, and to obtain 501(c)3 status for its requisite transparency.

I intend, barring unforeseen circumstances, to attend the open LRC meeting at Evangeline next Tuesday. I will report back on any discussion of the slaughter issue.

[cutchemist42]

That's ridiculous.

I do think you can say that she's tackling this problem in a much different way; i'm certainly a big supporter of anybody that's making an effort to help horses in need.



The vast majority of horses end up unwanted; it's the unfortunate nature of this business.

There are no good answers. Contraction's a blessing only in the sense that this not entirely grand-old-game is a little closer to it's demise. Which i suppose is mostly for the best.

Yes, but if we are going to slaughter them, should they not have the better humane standards other livestock have? Look up horse slaughter transportation. Its sickening they are transported in cages designed for other animals.

[onefast99]

If you stop to really think.

Between the "Ugly Underside" and the "Ugly Frontside"- like fatal breakdowns right in front of the fans, not to mention all the other stuff going on on the backside, it's somewhat surprising that this "sport" continues to even exist.
Maybe ban NASCAR and NHRA while you are at it! You are good on the kill pens but that one makes no sense at all.

[zawaaa]

Yes, but if we are going to slaughter them, should they not have the better humane standards other livestock have? Look up horse slaughter transportation. Its sickening they are transported in cages designed for other animals.

of course it's a travesty how poorly they're treated. the problem is nobody from the industry wants to even talk about it because the issue of unwanted horses reflects so poorly on the "sport" of horse racing.

that there isn't at least some sort of program to discourage owners from putting horses through the horror of having to go through the process of being sent to a slaughterhouse surely is attributable to that lack of dialogue.

anyway it is fatiguing just talking about it, to be honest; but, surely it can't be that hard to make the situation a little less dire.

[Fager Fan]

I have spoken to Dina and told her that my best advice to her is to stay on top of things, find good homes for the horses she already has in her possession, and to obtain 501(c)3 status for its requisite transparency.

I intend, barring unforeseen circumstances, to attend the open LRC meeting at Evangeline next Tuesday. I will report back on any discussion of the slaughter issue.

Stay on top of things? How about releasing a list of every horse and where it currently is? Why aren't you demanding that? Ask her to account for the gray horse, the pregnant horse? How about the horse that Hal is supposedly raffling off that is one of Dina's. A raffle? Are you kidding me? That's not how you rehome a horse.

And Dina needs to find some competent help. Claudia said she's going to issue "invoices" to everyone who already donated so they can have it be tax deductible. It's a receipt, and it can't be backdated beyond the date the IRS stamps it as received and in process with them. No donation to this point in time is tax deductible and never will be, and it can result in tax fraud if anyone tries. In fact, Dina's in a mess because the $100k or so she raised to her personal account she has to declare as income to the IRS, so what will she owe on that, about $35k?

The more you dig with Dina you find out what a mess her operation really is. She's a smart girl. There can be no explanation of her not releasing the whereabouts of every single horse than she doesn't want to. Now, why would that be? More baffling is anyone who supports her even though she refuses to make this disclosure.

[Denny]

Maybe ban NASCAR and NHRA while you are at it! You are good on the kill pens but that one makes no sense at all.

Horses have no choice.

NASCAR drivers do. They know the risks.

Have you witnessed fatal breakdowns, right in front of you?
It's horrible. Absolutely sickening.

It's one thing I think can turn public sentiment against the sport entirely.

Imagine another one happening in a high profile race like the Kentucky Derby.
Right where everybody sees it.
Captured on camera for for the world to see.

Goodbye Thoroughbred racing.

(Unless people are actually sick enough to be attracted by such a morbid event.)

I think I'm one away from quitting myself.

[Mulerider]

My point in this whole exercise is not to defend Dina, her methods, or her practices. My intent is to expose the utter refusal by Delta/Boyd Gaming to enforce its own policy; its changing of its own policy language via Twitter (!) when the heat is turned up; and its subtle message to Delta connections, by that language change, that essentially warns them that if they're going to dump a horse then they need to have plausible deniability if they're caught.

I have it on pretty good authority today that Delta is now acutely aware that it has been stained by this controversy, and has become more receptive to possible solutions, and I will discuss that with you privately if you wish. If Delta is sincere about that, then I intend to make a couple of suggestions next week at Evangeline.

Say what you will about Dina, good or bad, but it's undeniable that she has brought the slaughter issue to the forefront, where it deserves to be. The older, establishment welfare organizations have been remarkably impotent for years in that regard -- and completely useless to horses already in kill pens.

If Dina is all you say, then she will inevitably crash. But let's hope changes can be made to the Louisiana culture that will make pulling dozens of racehorses from kill pens at a single time unnecessary.

[jay68802]

Stay on top of things? How about releasing a list of every horse and where it currently is? Why aren't you demanding that? Ask her to account for the gray horse, the pregnant horse? How about the horse that Hal is supposedly raffling off that is one of Dina's. A raffle? Are you kidding me? That's not how you rehome a horse.

Along with the last owner. The worst thing that can happen to these people is for this information to be published.

[Mulerider]

Along with the last owner. The worst thing that can happen to these people is for this information to be published.

That's pretty much being done already with Equibase screenshots, Jay. One Delta horse was at Dominique's meat auction in Opelousas three days after her last race. I emailed Delta with the horse's name, along with the names of its owner and trainer. Didn't even receive the courtesy of an acknowledgement. So I posted the same information on Delta's Twitter page. Got a bunch of likes - BFD - but no reply from Delta.

[Fager Fan]

That's pretty much being done already with Equibase screenshots, Jay. One Delta horse was at Dominique's meat auction in Opelousas three days after her last race. I emailed Delta with the horse's name, along with the names of its owner and trainer. Didn't even receive the courtesy of an acknowledgement. So I posted the same information on Delta's Twitter page. Got a bunch of likes - BFD - but no reply from Delta.

It may look bad, but there still needs to be proof before the track takes away their livelihood.

[cutchemist42]

Horses have no choice.

NASCAR drivers do. They know the risks.

Have you witnessed fatal breakdowns, right in front of you?
It's horrible. Absolutely sickening.

It's one thing I think can turn public sentiment against the sport entirely.

Imagine another one happening in a high profile race like the Kentucky Derby.
Right where everybody sees it.
Captured on camera for for the world to see.

Goodbye Thoroughbred racing.

(Unless people are actually sick enough to be attracted by such a morbid event.)

I think I'm one away from quitting myself.

The thing is, breakdowns will always exist. The science of understanding them can hopefully improve.

I actually too for the most part think the public knows horses and jockeys can be injured or die from the sport.

I do wonder though how bad a modern day Kentucky Derby stretch breakdown would be? How bad was the press for Eight Belles (i hope thats the right name) after the finish line?

[Mulerider]

Last week a rescue group (not Dina Alborano) bailed 13 horses from Thompson's Kill Lot. Apparently Thompson agreed to deliver the horses. In the process, two horses fell through the trailer and were dragged; the injuries were too severe for them to be saved, euthanasia was the only option.

One of the horses was Cimarron Rose. She was 5 years old, and she last raced at Evangeline on April 4, Race 3.

This same rescue group bought four thoroughbreds at Dominique's auction in Baton Rouge on February 27. One of those was Red Hot Sensation, who had last raced at Delta Downs on Feb. 8. Here is a short clip of her treatment at Dominique's. You see her fall as she is being winched out of the pen toward the ring. I believe Rosie Napravnik caught this on video.

https://soulhorsetx.com/2018/04/09/the-dominique-four/

As we say in Texas, some people just need killing.

[cutchemist42]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/17/racings-efforts-to-grapple-with-horse-slaughter-not-enough-at-least-for-now


Racing's efforts to grapple with horse slaughter not enough, at least for now

“It’s a food safety issue,” said Brown. Drugs like the painkiller phenylbutazone are ubiquitous in racehorse training, but they’re prohibited for use in animals intended for human consumption. “Livestock like cows and chickens, those animals are highly regulated in terms of their drug intake if they’re going into the human food chain. But the horse seems to slip through the cracks,” he said.

So, why do racehorses “slip through the cracks” as Brown says? “It’s almost a running joke at the auctions: ‘Will somebody sign this paper or that paper?’” Brown said, explaining the holes in the documentation system for horses bound for slaughter in Canada. This is compounded by the lack of a comprehensive national “passport” system that charts each horse’s medical history, he said. “It’s absolutely ridiculous.”

No one should be eating this contaminated meat. Its unethical of us to feed this meat to humans in other countries who are oblivious to the horrible Mexican standards.

In New York, for example, a retirement program called Take the Lead has, over the past three years, facilitated the rehoming of around 375 ex-racehorses. New York racetracks, however, sit among the “elite” echelons of the sport, and owners there tend to be wealthier and more able to fulfill the “ethical responsibilities” to their horses, said trainer Rick Schosberg, Take the Lead’s administrator.

I know Brown has said this, that simply some tracks shouldnt exist if the margins are that thin for some.

“There is a segment of people who make a living humiliating or embarrassing people into buying back a horse that they at one point in their lives owned,” said the TAA’s president, John Phillips, who added that rescuing horses from kill lots isn’t a total deal-breaker when they’re doling out funds. “What we don’t want to get into is with individuals or groups who use the threat of kill buyers to basically hustle business.”

Others also argue that kill buyers have turned this threat into a cottage industry, artificially inflating the prices of the ex-racehorses in their care knowing that they have a ready market in the rescue groups. But by cutting out the kill lots in this way, Dina Alborano said, a large pool of slaughter-bound ex-racehorses are being ignored.

Speaks to the inflated prices killbuyers make people pay. This once again speaks to the need to have better access to the horses off the track before they get to the killots.

[cutchemist42]

http://www.drf.com/news/asian-racing-conference-aftercare-both-equine-and-public-relations-issue

Asian Racing Conference: Aftercare both an equine and public-relations issue

Money is not generally a problem for the Hong Kong Jockey Club, one of the richest racing authorities in the world. Amanda Bond, the executive manager for equestrian affairs for the HKJC, outlined the association’s own aftercare program, which starts with a simple choice for the owner who decides to retire a horse: either provide for the horse’s export from the tiny territory, or donate the horse to the HKJC, which will then take care of the rest, at association expense.

Bond said that the HKJC has a number of options for donated retired horses, including retraining for use in local riding programs, apprentice jockey schools, or other equestrian events; conversion into either a racetrack or stable lead; or designation for overseas export, often as breeding stock. Bond also acknowledged that “in rare cases” veterinarians will recommend that a retired horse be euthanized, an option she said that the industry should continue to consider even in the face of criticism over the choice, as long as it is based on a thorough evaluation of the horse’s post-racing quality of life.

n an interview after her presentation, Bond said that approximately 400 horses are retired from the Hong Kong resident population of 1,200 horses each year, and approximately 150 of those retired horses are donated to the HKJC. Expenses for the aftercare program are $4.6 million, but revenues to the program, which include fees that owners must pay as a condition of importing horses to Hong Kong, reduce the total cost to $1.4 million, Bond said during her presentation.

https://twitter.com/CVFPartnerships/status/996967755739000837
‏

[Mulerider]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/may/17/racings-efforts-to-grapple-with-horse-slaughter-not-enough-at-least-for-now





No one should be eating this contaminated meat. Its unethical of us to feed this meat to humans in other countries who are oblivious to the horrible Mexican standards.



I know Brown has said this, that simply some tracks shouldnt exist if the margins are that thin for some.



Speaks to the inflated prices killbuyers make people pay. This once again speaks to the need to have better access to the horses off the track before they get to the killots.

Daniel Ross called me about a month ago. I think he had as much trouble with my Texas accent as I did with his British one. Or Australian. Whatever. He's a good guy, at any rate.

[Mulerider]

Thompson's now has 11 more scheduled to ship to Mexico today.

[clicknow]

Mulerider,
thank you for posting this.

There's a lot to talk about, but what upsets me the most is that we have the veterinary technology to humanely euthanize horses...

..that trip by trailer that takes them to some miserable place in Mexico, where, once they get there, is utterly horrifying, is certainly NOT the way any horse who has carried a rider, should be treated.

I can't even imagine how terrified they must be, going on that long journey and then ending up in *ell, where they may have been bitten, kicked, starved, and also harboring previous racing injuries, and not receive ANY veterinary care while there......

I can't even IMAGINE a more torturous suffering, or inhumane experience. All so that somebody can get the "last $200" or so $$ from a horse?

It boggles the mind!

Just pay to have your horse put down, and buried if this is what needs to be done.

I can't talk about this further, and probably can't read most of the posts, this stuff keeps me up at night!


We see those ancient paintings from the medieval era where people are wailing and suffering in Hades.....or chained to walls in dungeons......crying out......but this is exactly what the picture is for these horses!!! IN an industry where people are making some serious coin.

The ugly truth is that there really is nowhere for these horses to go, even the rescued ones may live a long time and horse upkeep is expensive. Most people don't live on farms or have farms, you need a lot of acreage to have horses.

WHY aren't there vets at the tracks to just euthanize horses BEFORE they are sent to kill lots? Why would any owner "disappear" a horse like that?

[clicknow]

Maybe ban NASCAR and NHRA while you are at it! You are good on the kill pens but that one makes no sense at all.

oh please. Human beings can think and problem-solve. They have choices. Options. They can make decisions.

Horse don't have any of these luxuries. Do you actually not see this?



A short excerpt, and thumbs up to trainer Graham Motion:

"People inside the industry have added to the funds collected via Alborano’s social-media appeals. Some who have contributed are owners Amad Zayat, Rich Papeise, Michael Cannon and Mike Schera, and trainer Graham Motion, who places neon green stickers on the racing papers of his horses that read:

“HERINGSWELL STABLES LTD. If this horse ever needs a home, call 410.398.0090. This horse was not bred for slaughter.”

Motion has been doing that for decades . The problem is, the problem isn't with people like Graham Motion. it's the usual "responsible people act responsibly". Its all the dishonerables who are the problem and they must be rooted out.

[Mulerider]

...another 16 thoroughbreds pulled from Thompson's Kill Lot.

One is JUST TOO SMART (by Smarty Jones). Eight years old, he earned $178,830 for his owners. Owner and trainer: Elliot Arceneaux. Last race: 10 days ago, Evangeline Race 7, 4/14/18.

Another is MR GREEN GIRL, last race Fairgrounds 12/23/17. Career record 31: 7-2-5, earnings $91,009. Last recorded connections: Norris Greene, owner; Denise Schmidt, trainer. Rescued in emaciated condition.