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Driver8
02-20-2018, 03:49 PM
Off the top of your head do any of you follow some current horses that come from the back of the pack? Four Leaf Chief is one I can think of.

Afleet
02-20-2018, 08:14 PM
watch the Razorback and Southwest

Tom
02-20-2018, 09:36 PM
Most depp closers don't win races, they inherit them.
The have no control over their destiny and have to rely on those up front going too fast.

CincyHorseplayer
02-20-2018, 09:45 PM
Best way to evaluate is best finish vs fastest pace. Some closers vs a fast pace get stranded at the drive in. Labeled a fool.

GMB@BP
02-21-2018, 07:37 AM
Most depp closers don't win races, they inherit them.
The have no control over their destiny and have to rely on those up front going too fast.

:ThmbUp: Cant really say it better.

Also they are notoriously overbet.

Useful to me in verticals as Tri Keys underneath.

A horse that comes from way back, that can crack any pace scenario, is very very rare. I can only think of 1 or 2 in my lifetime.

ultracapper
02-21-2018, 01:54 PM
Megahertz

GMB@BP
02-21-2018, 01:55 PM
Megahertz

turf is a different animal

ultracapper
02-21-2018, 01:57 PM
Too true.

biggestal99
02-21-2018, 02:14 PM
:ThmbUp: Cant really say it better.

Also they are notoriously overbet.

Useful to me in verticals as Tri Keys underneath.

A horse that comes from way back, that can crack any pace scenario, is very very rare. I can only think of 1 or 2 in my lifetime.

Zenyatta and Forego.

Fast. slow. didn't matter.

Allan

lex
02-21-2018, 02:41 PM
No current ones but my favorite Evening Attire was pretty good at it. Even left the gate late to give them a head start. :)

Dave Schwartz
02-21-2018, 02:42 PM
Most depp closers don't win races, they inherit them.
The have no control over their destiny and have to rely on those up front going too fast.


THIS^^^^:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:
Tom,

That is precisely what I have found.

cj
02-21-2018, 09:29 PM
THIS^^^^:ThmbUp::ThmbUp:
Tom,

That is precisely what I have found.

I'll piggyback on this with a slightly different take. When deep closers win, the pace also is usually fast or even very fast. Those pace scenarios tend to lead to the fastest final times. So not only do they inherit the wins, they do so in a way that tends to give them inflated speed figures.

You can say any type horse runs its best races when it gets the best trips of course. But only with closers does the best set up also usually ensure a fast final time, something that is highly factored in to the betting odds in this country.

PhantomOnTour
02-22-2018, 01:51 AM
All this deep closer talk reminded me of one of my favorites from about 15-20yrs ago...

Chindi

JustRalph
02-22-2018, 12:59 PM
I once found that the ones that did win from time to time were helped by having an inside post or a very wide one.

Tom said it all

ultracapper
02-22-2018, 01:05 PM
From an entertainment standpoint, however, there is nothing more exciting to the casual fan than a horse that comes from outer space to gobble them up. The buzz on the apron after a race like that is always fun.

Fred Mertz
02-22-2018, 02:49 PM
From an entertainment standpoint, however, there is nothing more exciting to the casual fan than a horse that comes from outer space to gobble them up.

That's what I told my buddy about Zenyatta when we watched her race on TV. The rookies don't get why the 3/5 fave is usually last going into the clubhouse turn. Yes, very exciting to watch.

classhandicapper
02-22-2018, 03:16 PM
One of the things that makes it so tough for deep closers to win is how inefficiently they distribute their energy. They often go so slow early, whatever they are gaining by relaxing off the real action is less than they are losing in position. Then when they make that huge middle move to get back into contention they are spent in the stretch and hang. Of course, if the rider chooses to wait longer he can finish better, but he'll never make up all the ground. It'd kind of hopeless unless the race falls apart or the horse is really special and has 2 big moves.