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View Full Version : Israel solved school shootings long ago


JustRalph
02-17-2018, 09:37 AM
https://townhall.com/columnists/lawrencemeyers/2018/02/15/president-trump-have-education-department-mandate-active-shooter-protocols-n2449726

Tom
02-17-2018, 10:36 AM
Adapt or die.

Where have I heard that before?

woodtoo
02-17-2018, 10:56 AM
They are always on the leading edge in safety at schools, airports and borders
because they have to be.

boxcar
02-17-2018, 11:37 AM
They are always on the leading edge in safety at schools, airports and borders
because they have to be.

Exactly! They realize they live in a very dangerous world. Apparently, we don't. All libs really want is for everyone to relinquish their guns so that that the arms underground can grow to feed guns to criminals and the mentally unstable so that these two groups can go shoot fish in a barell at will. What a plan! :rolleyes:

pandy
02-17-2018, 03:00 PM
https://townhall.com/columnists/lawrencemeyers/2018/02/15/president-trump-have-education-department-mandate-active-shooter-protocols-n2449726

This is the most logical solution.

horses4courses
02-17-2018, 03:25 PM
Why not just arm all kids and teachers from kindergarten on up? :rolleyes:

PaceAdvantage
02-17-2018, 03:26 PM
Why not just teach your kids not to be murderous scumbags?

Tom
02-17-2018, 03:29 PM
Why not just arm all kids and teachers from kindergarten on up? :rolleyes:

There would be no mass shootings ever again.
Nothing stops a shooter faster than a second shooter.

Gun free zones only benefit the KILLERS, Eintstein, not the victims.

boxcar
02-17-2018, 03:41 PM
Why not just arm all kids and teachers from kindergarten on up? :rolleyes:

Who would stand a better chance of surviving: The above mentioned group or the group you advocate for -- the "fish in the barrel"?

horses4courses
02-17-2018, 03:41 PM
There would be no mass shootings ever again.
Nothing stops a shooter faster than a second shooter.

Gun free zones only benefit the KILLERS, Eintstein, not the victims.

Yeah, real smart.
I can see it now.
Little Johnny shot dead coz he wouldn't
fork over his lunch money to bully Calvin.
Nice.......

chrisl
02-17-2018, 03:53 PM
I ran the construction of a new school near Dutch Harbor AK. The design of the security features this school has, is still, way ahead of itself. The entrance to the school has metal detectors and metal pocket doors, some walk through and set off the alarm the pocket door close and locks the area trapping who ever set off the alarm, Main office secured bullet proof glass,pocket doors, the hall ways had metal pocket doors that the security could activate along with the main office . They could separate that building in so many ways. Every lock set had card readers and were on the FLS system. Entire school video monitored from a secured guard office. They performed weekly drills. This was in 1998 and the school was only for 35, children K-4. School cost to construct 12 million. It can be done very well, If we really wanted to.

FantasticDan
02-17-2018, 03:53 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/us/politics/fact-check-parkland-gun-violence-mental-illness.html

“Israel pretty much eliminated [shootings] by placing highly trained people strategically to spot the one common thread — not the weapon, but a person with intent.” — Former Gov. Mike Huckabee of Arkansas

This is an interpretation that the Israelis reject.

Israeli officials and experts rejected this version of events after a similar claim was made by Wayne LaPierre, the president of the National Rifle Association, after the 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., in which 20 children and six adults were killed.

“Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing. They said, ‘We’re going to stop it,’ and they put armed security in every school, and they have not had a problem since then,” Mr. LaPierre said in December 2012 on NBC.

Yigal Palmor, a spokesman for the Israeli Foreign Ministry, told The New York Daily News at the time that the situations in the United States and Israel were “fundamentally different” and said that the measures that Israel enacted were a response to terrorism.

“What removed the danger was not the armed guards, but an overall antiterror policy and antiterror operations, which brought street terrorism down to nearly zero over a number of years,” Mr. Palmor said.

FantasticDan
02-17-2018, 03:55 PM
There would be no mass shootings ever again.
Nothing stops a shooter faster than a second shooter.
Gun free zones only benefit the KILLERS, Eintstein, not the victims.
But you don't have a gun. Why not?

ElKabong
02-17-2018, 03:58 PM
Why not just arm all kids and teachers from kindergarten on up? :rolleyes:

Was there a point to this particular reply? If you have a workable solution, bring it. Or better yet send it to your representative in DC or your state representative.

PaceAdvantage
02-17-2018, 04:00 PM
I ran the construction of a new school near Dutch Harbor AK. The design of the security features this school has, is still, way ahead of itself. The entrance to the school has metal detectors and metal pocket doors, some walk through and set off the alarm the pocket door close and locks the area trapping who ever set off the alarm, Main office secured bullet proof glass,pocket doors, the hall ways had metal pocket doors that the security could activate along with the main office . They could separate that building in so many ways. Every lock set had card readers and were on the FLS system. Entire school video monitored from a secured guard office. They performed weekly drills. This was in 1998 and the school was only for 35, children K-4. School cost to construct 12 million. It can be done very well, If we really wanted to.Schools are like prisons these days. Even old schools have been refitted with all these security mechanisms, locked entrances where you need to be buzzed in during school hours...

It's all very sad...and has NOTHING to do with guns...

Guns have been around well before these school massacres started happening with frightening regularity...

But liberals should just keep putting their heads in the sand and crying out about the guns being the problem...

And they call Republicans rednecks and dopes?

FantasticDan
02-17-2018, 04:13 PM
Guns have been around well before these school massacres started happening with frightening regularity...

But liberals should just keep putting their heads in the sand and crying out about the guns being the problem...
You pulled this logic out of your butt today and have mentioned it at least three times..

The truth is you don't know anything about how many guns kids had access to years and years ago. Sure, in rural communities there were lots of rifles and shotguns, but if some kid brought his rifle to his Nebraska school house in 1937 and shot a couple people, do you think you would know about it?

PaceAdvantage
02-17-2018, 04:26 PM
You pulled this logic out of your butt today and have mentioned it at least three times..

The truth is you don't know anything about how many guns kids had access to years and years ago. Sure, in rural communities there were lots of rifles and shotguns, but if some kid brought his rifle to his Nebraska school house in 1937 and shot a couple people, do you think you would know about it?So you're saying the news is the problem now? That we're more aware and this kind of thing has always been going on?

Yeah, you're right...that Bath School massacre in the 20s which is the deadliest school massacre in US history (carried out by an adult male with bombs and not guns, by the way) never made the news...:rolleyes:

Tom
02-17-2018, 05:01 PM
But you don't have a gun. Why not?

I don't want one.
Too much work - have to clean them, lock them up, not leave them behind or on your car seat......can't find a snazzy holster, just more to worry about. Beside, I might run into a liberal on the street on day and, as Clocker says, a man's got to know his limitations! :eek: Bang Bang!

I don't smoke pot either, but I support legalizing it for those who want to.

Clocker
02-17-2018, 06:07 PM
Guns have been around well before these school massacres started happening with frightening regularity...

But liberals should just keep putting their heads in the sand and crying out about the guns being the problem...



Let me plant the seeds of unfounded speculation. How many of those shooters are the children of liberals?

MutuelClerk
02-17-2018, 06:39 PM
This seems to be a perfect middle ground. Which is why it will never work. Party before country and now before school kids. Sweet.

HalvOnHorseracing
02-17-2018, 11:23 PM
I couldn't begin to count the number of high school basketball games I've officiated, and all the schools I've been in. I walk into the school with a sizable bag containing my uniform and toiletries and I've never been checked or gone through a metal detector. I just say, I'm here to referee the varsity game, and they say, fine, I'll show you the dressing room.

Obviously I am no threat, but it's occurred to me more than once that someone with bad intentions could walk into the school on a basketball night, pretend to be an official and start shooting.

I understand school budgets are stretched, but the safety of the students should be a top priority. I put the onus on the school board, not the general government.

PaceAdvantage
02-17-2018, 11:27 PM
There's a whole bunch of stuff people could just do if they had evil intentions and not be stopped. Things a lot of you probably have never even thought of...

woodtoo
02-18-2018, 03:09 AM
I couldn't begin to count the number of high school basketball games I've officiated, and all the schools I've been in. I walk into the school with a sizable bag containing my uniform and toiletries and I've never been checked or gone through a metal detector. I just say, I'm here to referee the varsity game, and they say, fine, I'll show you the dressing room.

Obviously I am no threat, but it's occurred to me more than once that someone with bad intentions could walk into the school on a basketball night, pretend to be an official and start shooting.

I understand school budgets are stretched, but the safety of the students should be a top priority. I put the onus on the school board, not the general government.

You could take this up with the schools involved it may be a start.

highnote
02-18-2018, 06:40 AM
First, start with the premise that the world is a dangerous place.

Therefore, it behioves everyone to practice situational awareness.

A good place to start is by reading this series of articles from Stratford about how situational awareness can prevent you from being a victim:

https://worldview.stratfor.com/article/primer-situational-awareness

highnote
02-18-2018, 08:43 AM
https://townhall.com/columnists/lawrencemeyers/2018/02/15/president-trump-have-education-department-mandate-active-shooter-protocols-n2449726

Good points. I flew to Israel a few years before 911. No metal detectors or scanners. The israel's understood security very well. Highly trained. US relies on technology rather than training. I would rather have highly trained security personnel than relying on technology.

Tom
02-18-2018, 11:10 AM
I understand school budgets are stretched, but the safety of the students should be a top priority. I put the onus on the school board, not the general government.

But the kids all have parents who could do something to help out protecting their own kids. Maybe some of them could become the "they" that should do something.

highnote
02-18-2018, 12:25 PM
But the kids all have parents who could do something to help out protecting their own kids. Maybe some of them could become the "they" that should do something.

Not to shortchange women, but I'm not sure soccer mom's should be the first line of defense. Come to think of it, having soccer dads as the first line of defense would be a mistake, too.

Raising property taxes would probably be the first thing that local politicians would want to do in order to pay for professional security.

lamboguy
02-18-2018, 12:31 PM
i happen to have breakfast every sunday at a restaurant across the street from Boston University. BU has their own police force, every shift has at least 80 officers that carry weapons and they patrol the whole campus. i asked one of them that i have been pretty friendly with for years what they do to stop attacks. he tells me that they are trained to anticipate bad actors walking around and have caught a few of them before they had their chance to do damage. he said the FBI flat out didn't do their jobs on this one. i wonder why we pay these guys the money that they take down every year with all their bullshit.

JustRalph
02-18-2018, 12:35 PM
Not to shortchange women, but I'm not sure soccer mom's should be the first line of defense. Come to think of it, having soccer dads as the first line of defense would be a mistake, too.

Raising property taxes would probably be the first thing that local politicians would want to do in order to pay for professional security.

Bury your kid or pay a little to ensure you never have to worry? Public schools created this environment, a few bucks more for something tangible even passes my anti tax stance. I can name a hundred parents right now who wishes they could go back and pay a little..........

I spent my entire adult life dealing with Security issues and the after the fact preventative discussions are always painful. Rarely is anybody ahead of the game....always behind due to $$$

In the 80’s and 90’s we used to do threat assessments. Until lawyers starting using them in lawsuits against those who ignored them. Now, most organizations are guessing.....

highnote
02-18-2018, 12:52 PM
It's all very sad...and has NOTHING to do with guns...

Guns have been around well before these school massacres started happening with frightening regularity...

But liberals should just keep putting their heads in the sand and crying out about the guns being the problem...

And they call Republicans rednecks and dopes?

We have all heard the argument that "guns don't kill people, people kill people". It's a stupid argument, otherwise, every country in the world would have nuclear weapons and the U.S. would do nothing to deter the proliferation of nukes.

This is from the Department of Homeland Security:

"The Ammonium Nitrate Security Program is a proposed regulation developed by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) in response to direction from Congress to "regulate the sale and transfer of ammonium nitrate by an ammonium nitrate facility ... to prevent the misappropriation or use of ammonium nitrate in an act of terrorism."

If people kill people then why is the sale of ammonium nitrate regulated? Ammonium nitrate is as harmless as an assault rifle, right? Ammonium nitrate doesn't kill people, right?

Recently, a military veteran engaged in a standoff with police in Houston and managed to fire 212 shots from an AR-15 before he was killed by a SWAT sniper. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/06/01/army-vet-suspected-killing-one-person-in-houston-mass-shooting-fired-212-rounds.html

Imagine if some guy like that opens up fire during rush hour on a Wall Street sidewalk some morning. Or maybe pulls a fire alarm at a school and shoots kids as they exit the building. You can't kill as many people with a knife or a shotgun as you can with a high capacity assault rifle.

Weapons like grenades, tanks, and hand-held ground-to-air missles are regulated for a reason.

There is no reason to own a military-style assault rifle with a high capacity clip. A shotgun is a better weapon for self-protection in the home than an AR-15. I'd even prefer a shotgun over a pistol for self-protection in the home.

Hunters argue that even the best hunters need more than one shot. I argue that if you're real hunter you only need one shot because you don't take the shot unless you are 100% sure you can hit your target. I was raised to shoot a single shot, bolt-action, 22 caliber rifle. By the way... my mom taught me how to shoot. When I hunted rabbits, I never needed a second shot because I never missed. I also never took a shot I knew I couldn't make. I also practiced, practiced, and practiced.

Robert Fischer
02-18-2018, 12:54 PM
We need some better video games.

How about WALMART VIGILANTE

Set in a Walmart in some Florida or Texas hell-hole?

You play as a good guy with a gun, and you try to shoot the bad guy with a gun, while not getting killed by other heroes who mistakenly believe you are the bad guy due to their limited vantage and their nature.

If you survive the level, you have to survive a surrender to the police.

Increasing difficulty levels;

Level 1 = you are a cop

Level 2 = you are an armed citizen

Level 3 = you are an armed black citizen

highnote
02-18-2018, 01:02 PM
Bury your kid or pay a little to ensure you never have to worry? Public schools created this environment, a few bucks more for something tangible even passes my anti tax stance. I can name a hundred parents right now who wishes they could go back and pay a little..........

I spent my entire adult life dealing with Security issues and the after the fact preventative discussions are always painful. Rarely is anybody ahead of the game....always behind due to $$$

In the 80’s and 90’s we used to do threat assessments. Until lawyers starting using them in lawsuits against those who ignored them. Now, most organizations are guessing.....

I would pay extra taxes for professional security personnel to be on public school campuses in our town.

School shootings don't only happen at public schools. Remember the Amish school shootings... :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting

I don't know if there is any way to stop every shooting.

Probably the first place to start is by understanding and practicing good situational awareness. The FBI was notified of the Florida shooter. Government agencies cannot always protect you. You have to protect yourself.

Clocker
02-18-2018, 01:14 PM
School shootings don't only happen at public schools. Remember the Amish school shootings... :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting



School shootings by current or former students seem to happen only in public schools. This is clearly not a case of a student taking revenge for what he sees as past offenses against him.

woodtoo
02-18-2018, 01:20 PM
School shootings by current or former students seem to happen only in public schools. This is clearly not a case of a student taking revenge for what he sees as past offenses against him.

I don't think we clearly or otherwise yet know why he did what he did. Do we?

highnote
02-18-2018, 01:33 PM
School shootings by current or former students seem to happen only in public schools.

That may be the case. I read or heard that armed security personnel should only be mandatory at schools with 100 or more students. That leaves smaller schools unprotected which is what my point is about. It is probably impossible for every threat to be thwarted.

This is why situational awareness is important. Criminals leave clues that can be detected beforehand.

There were certainly some red flags that were ignored in the Florida school shootings.

boxcar
02-18-2018, 02:28 PM
I would pay extra taxes for professional security personnel to be on public school campuses in our town.

School shootings don't only happen at public schools. Remember the Amish school shootings... :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nickel_Mines_School_shooting

I don't know if there is any way to stop every shooting.

Probably the first place to start is by understanding and practicing good situational awareness. The FBI was notified of the Florida shooter. Government agencies cannot always protect you. You have to protect yourself.

An exception never nullifies a general rule.

barahona44
02-18-2018, 03:20 PM
School shootings by current or former students seem to happen only in public schools. This is clearly not a case of a student taking revenge for what he sees as past offenses against him.

He had been expelled from this school and was attending a different one at the time of the shooting.So it looks as if he indeed had felt wronged by the school, otherwise why not shoot up the school he was attending.Or maybe the local mall if he just wanted innocent victims.

highnote
02-18-2018, 04:24 PM
An exception never nullifies a general rule.

Exceptions are tail risks and have to be accounted for -- black swans.

Robert Fischer
02-18-2018, 05:05 PM
Exceptions are tail risks and have to be accounted for -- black swans.

"Black Swan" won in a photo-finish over "Thanksgiving Turkey" when naming the theory. #interestingfact

Clocker
02-18-2018, 05:53 PM
He had been expelled from this school and was attending a different one at the time of the shooting.So it looks as if he indeed had felt wronged by the school, otherwise why not shoot up the school he was attending.Or maybe the local mall if he just wanted innocent victims.

I was talking about the adult who committed a mass shooting at an Amish school.

boxcar
02-19-2018, 05:31 PM
Exceptions are tail risks and have to be accounted for -- black swans.

Time would be better spent accounting for all the "white swans", which outnumber their counterparts by a huge ratio, and how to deal with them.

highnote
02-19-2018, 06:54 PM
Time would be better spent accounting for all the "white swans", which outnumber their counterparts by a huge ratio, and how to deal with them.

The thing people do not understand about the concept of Black Swans is that they happen more often than expected. People assume they are rarer than they actually are. People overbet or underestimate their frequency. That is why the losses are so big. Black Swans are where the big losses come from -- Long Term Capital, Amaranth and others.


There are thousands of schools in the U.S. that will never experience a school shooting, but shootings will happen more often than people think. And when they do happen the losses are horrific. Same with domestic terrorist attacks.