School shooting in Parkland Florida

[Tom]

Well...the bible does say that "not a hair falls from our heads without God wishing it so...".

Well the Bible is wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD52OlkKfNs

[barahona44]

Oh,oh, I smell a "Religion III" thread coming up.! ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

Enough then...this thread isn't about religion...

It should be about the societal decay that results in people thinking it's cool to go into a school and murder men, women, children, teenagers, etc.

Oh, that's right...it's the gun's fault...I forgot for a moment.

Get rid of the guns, get rid of the problem.

life is so simple, isn't it?

[thaskalos]

Well the Bible is wrong.


That's what I've been telling Boxcar all along. :ThmbUp:

[boxcar]

Are you suggesting that God is "justified" in his refusal to stop the killings of these kids...when it's in his power to stop such atrocities? If allowing the slaughter of kids is "just"...then, what do you consider UNJUST?

God is justified in fulfilling his curse promise due to sin; for there is no man who does not sin. Not even a righteous man can continue indefinitely in his righteousness and not sin (Eccl 7:20). How much more, then, the unrighteous?

[steveb]

And you are some kind of Constitutional expert, I guess?

i know nothing about it nor care.
i know the guy that wrote the post is fos, and that's the funny bit.

[PaceAdvantage]

You know who's really fos? The people who think the guns are the problem.

[Tom]

i know nothing about it nor care.
i know the guy that wrote the post is fos, and that's the funny bit.

Oh, I see.

Just another big mouthed foreigner trying to make himself seem relevant by getting involved in our affairs.

You aren't.
:sleeping:

[steveb]

Oh, I see.

Just another big mouthed foreigner trying to make himself seem relevant by getting involved in our affairs.

You aren't.
:sleeping:

you forgot scum bag and dickhead and what ever else you are fond of calling people ad nauseum.

involved in your affairs.....seriously???
another giving me a chuckle, thanks
i simply commented nothing more.
now are you going to tell you me that YOU, have NEVER commented on something that has happened in another country????

i may be opinionated, but no more than YOU.
but i don't call names and i don't get personal.

[jocko699]

you forgot scum bag and dickhead and what ever else you are fond of calling people ad nauseum.

involved in your affairs.....seriously???
another giving me a chuckle, thanks
i simply commented nothing more.
now are you going to tell you me that YOU, have NEVER commented on something that has happened in another country????

i may be opinionated, but no more than YOU.
but i don't call names and i don't get personal.


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=7&pictureid=29

[RunForTheRoses]

you forgot scum bag and dickhead and what ever else you are fond of calling people ad nauseum.

involved in your affairs.....seriously???
another giving me a chuckle, thanks
i simply commented nothing more.
now are you going to tell you me that YOU, have NEVER commented on something that has happened in another country????

i may be opinionated, but no more than YOU.
but i don't call names and i don't get personal.

How can you sleep when your Beds Are Burning?
How Can You dance when the earth are turning?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=FVFMeda09RU

[steveb]

How can you sleep when your Beds Are Burning?
How Can You dance when the earth are turning?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=FVFMeda09RU

so enlighten me.
what are you trying to infer?

[RunForTheRoses]

so enlighten me.
what are you trying to infer?

Ya Ain't into The Oils Mate?

Just that Oz has problems too, the glass houses thang, ya know?

[steveb]

Ya Ain't into The Oils Mate?

Just that Oz has problems too, the glass houses thang, ya know?

no, i thought midnight oil was crap personally.
the lead singer though was politically the same as me i guess, and became a politician.

of course we have problems, and what's more they are handled atrociously by politicians of both major parties.
our politicians in the main have one interest only.......themselves, and how deep they can bury their snouts into the trough.
but that is our fault for not holding them to a high enough standard, as we should do.

[PaceAdvantage]

you forgot scum bag and dickhead and what ever else you are fond of calling people ad nauseum.

involved in your affairs.....seriously???
another giving me a chuckle, thanks
i simply commented nothing more.
now are you going to tell you me that YOU, have NEVER commented on something that has happened in another country????

i may be opinionated, but no more than YOU.
but i don't call names and i don't get personal.You got personal with me, didn't you?

Or will your awesome abilities allow you to spin that too?

[steveb]

You got personal with me, didn't you?

Or will your awesome abilities allow you to spin that too?

show me.
1 out of 10 for your sarcasm, perhaps you can have another go at it!

[PaceAdvantage]

show me.
1 out of 10 for your sarcasm, perhaps you can have another go at it!The post I couldn't decipher...except that it sounded personal to me...which is why I was so eager for further translation. :pound:

[steveb]

The post I couldn't decipher...except that it sounded personal to me...which is why I was so eager for further translation. :pound:

so you are admiting that you had it wrong, and that i was not being personal?

the closest i may have come is to boxcar, but even 'god' would likely forgive me my sin in this case!!

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/usblm/status/965412306690682880

[PaceAdvantage]

IMPEACH 45!

[davew]

muslim brotherhood, is that a terrorist organization?

https://shariaunveiled.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/muslim-brotherhood-infiltrators.jpg

[woodtoo]

Obamas fraternity but you forgot the criminal Pakistanis, the Awans.

Why aren't they under arrest for money laundering and theft of top secrets along with hacking of most Dem politicians.

[boxcar]

https://twitter.com/usblm/status/965412306690682880

Did Obama get an Oscar for his performance before the parents?

[FantasticDan]

Did Obama get an Oscar for his performance before the parents?
Despite this ugly comment, I know you're a deeply religious man (:rolleyes:), so I know you'll appreciate this excerpt regarding Obama's visit with Newtown parents written by Joshua Dubois, Obama's Director of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships (the "Chief Pastor"):

It's just too bad Trump's response was so, so much less human.. I mean Oscar worthy. Maybe a Razzie, instead?

The White House is not supposed to be a place for brokenness. Sheer, shattered, brokenness. But that’s what we experienced on the weekend of December 14, 2012.

I was sitting at my desk around midday on Friday the 14th when I saw the images flash on CNN: A school. A gunman. Children fleeing, crying.

It’s sad that we’ve grown so accustomed to these types of scenes that my first thought was I hope there are no deaths, just injuries. I thought, Maybe it’s your run-of-the-mill scare.

And then the news from Sandy Hook Elementary School, a small school in the tiny hamlet of Newtown, Connecticut, began pouring in. The public details were horrific enough: Twenty children murdered. Six staff. Parents searching a gymnasium for signs of their kids.

But the private facts we received in the White House from the FBI were even worse.
How the gunman treated the children like criminals, lining them up to shoot them down. How so many bullets penetrated them that many were left unrecognizable. How the killer went from one classroom to another and would have gone farther if his rifle would’ve let him.

That news began a weekend of prayer and numbness, which I awoke from on Saturday only to receive the word that the president would like me to accompany him to Newtown. He wanted to meet with the families of the victims and then offer words of comfort to the country at an interfaith memorial service.

I left early to help the advance team—the hardworking folks who handle logistics for every event—set things up, and I arrived at the local high school where the meetings and memorial service would take place. We prepared seven or eight classrooms for the families of the slain children and teachers, two or three families to a classroom, placing water and tissues and snacks in each one. Honestly, we didn’t know how to prepare; it was the best we could think of.

The families came in and gathered together, room by room. Many struggled to offer a weak smile when we whispered, “The president will be here soon.” A few were visibly angry—so understandable that it barely needs to be said—and were looking for someone, anyone, to blame. Mostly they sat in silence.

I went downstairs to greet President Obama when he arrived, and I provided an overview of the situation. “Two families per classroom . . . The first is . . . and their child was . . . The second is . . . and their child was . . . We’ll tell you the rest as you go.”

The president took a deep breath and steeled himself, and went into the first classroom. And what happened next I’ll never forget.

Person after person received an engulfing hug from our commander in chief. He’d say, “Tell me about your son. . . . Tell me about your daughter,” and then hold pictures of the lost beloved as their parents described favorite foods, television shows, and the sound of their laughter. For the younger siblings of those who had passed away—many of them two, three, or four years old, too young to understand it all—the president would grab them and toss them, laughing, up into the air, and then hand them a box of White House M&M’s, which were always kept close at hand. In each room, I saw his eyes water, but he did not break.

And then the entire scene would repeat—for hours. Over and over and over again, through well over a hundred relatives of the fallen, each one equally broken, wrecked by the loss. After each classroom, we would go back into those fluorescent hallways and walk through the names of the coming families, and then the president would dive back in, like a soldier returning to a tour of duty in a worthy but wearing war. We spent what felt like a lifetime in those classrooms, and every single person received the same tender treatment. The same hugs. The same looks, directly in their eyes. The same sincere offer of support and prayer.

The staff did the preparation work, but the comfort and healing were all on President Obama. I remember worrying about the toll it was taking on him. And of course, even a president’s comfort was woefully inadequate for these families in the face of this particularly unspeakable loss. But it became some small measure of love, on a weekend when evil reigned.

And the funny thing is—President Obama has never spoken about these meetings. Yes, he addressed the shooting in Newtown and gun violence in general in a subsequent speech, but he did not speak of those private gatherings. In fact, he was nearly silent on Air Force One as we rode back to Washington, and has said very little about his time with these families since. It must have been one of the defining moments of his presidency, quiet hours in solemn classrooms, extending as much healing as was in his power to extend. But he kept it to himself—never seeking to teach a lesson based on those mournful conversations, or opening them up to public view.

Jesus teaches us that some things—the holiest things, the most painful and important and cherished things—we are to do in secret. Not for public consumption and display, but as acts of service to others, and worship to God. For then, “your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you,” perhaps not now, but certainly in eternity. We learned many lessons in Newtown that day; this is one I’ve kept closely at heart.

[Tom]

Excerpt?
I don't think this word means what you think it means. :rolleyes:

[FantasticDan]

Excerpt? I don't think this word means what you think it means. :rolleyes:See? You've been spoiled by all the tweets.. much less work. :p

[Clocker]

See? You've been spoiled by all the tweets.. much less work. :p

Your pithy reposted tweets are what we live for. :popcorn:

[woodtoo]

Younger brother Zachary Cruz who turns 18 next week was committed involuntarily to a mental facility on Friday.
@NYPost

[boxcar]

Despite this ugly comment, I know you're a deeply religious man (:rolleyes:), so I know you'll appreciate this excerpt regarding Obama's visit with Newtown parents written by Joshua Dubois, Obama's Director of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships (the "Chief Pastor"):

It's just too bad Trump's response was so, so much less human.. I mean Oscar worthy. Maybe a Razzie, instead?

The last paragraph in your "excerpt" spoken by our former Muslim-in-Chief says it all and actually lends strong support for my hypothesis . This is another ploy antichrist, antichristian Leftists love to foist on the public in emotional circumstances like these by seizing the opportunity to not only to wax religious but to wax Christian specifically, most especially by quoting Jesus. But invariably these fraudulent, deceptive, manipulative , opportunistic chameleons will betray their phony motives by choosing a text of scripture that was chosen for only its great sound byte appeal that will likely tickle undiscerning ears, since the text will always be quoted out of context, having little or nothing to do with the actual circumstances for which it is being applied. And they use the text because they know fully well that very few people will make the effort to check the context of scripture to see if the text actually applies to the context of the life situation at hand. And so it is with this one.

Obama's former "chief pastor" was immediately alluding to Mat 6:4 but the passage continues on to v. 18. In this passage Jesus gives three examples of "your acts of righteousness" (6:1). The first is charity to the needy. The second is prayer. And the third is fasting.

The last two have to do with religious acts directed to God. While the first one is a voluntary act of kindness to the needy. While I suppose it could be argued that consoling the grieving is an act of kindness, nonetheless it differs in nature in one significant respect from the acts of charity to the needy. The world is filled with needy people but the response of kindness to them by their fellow man is hardly universal; whereas the response to a grieving person due to personal loss is virtually universal. When we meet someone (even people we don't know and we learn of their loss -- even a distant one-- the automatic, universal response is, at minimum, to express our condolences or sympathies. But how often do any of us feel sympathy or empathy for the needy - even though they are all around us? How often do we go out of the way to make someone's life a little better because of their poverty? How many of us are willing to make real sacrifices for the welfare of the needy?

It's also important to understand in the context of this passage that Jesus was addressing Jews -- Israel at that time being the only covenant people (nation) of God on the planet. In fact, Jesus accentuates this point elsewhere in the Sermon on the Mount when he insulted the Jews by comparing them with Gentiles. And how he did this is by giving an example of another universal human experience -- Love (Mat 5:43-48). Just as love is a universal experience among mankind, likewise sympathy for those mourning the dead is also a universal experience. So...we should try to keep Obama's time spent in "secret" with mourners in perspective of this universal experience and response. It's not as though Obama did something unusual, something different, something sacrificial in nature, something over and above "the call of duty". So get this point: He did what any non-Christian would do, with the exception of course of the added photo op! (So why bring Jesus and the bible into this...to prove what exactly?) As the Matthew 5 passage asks, ..."what do you (Jews) do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles (non-believers) do the same".

Finally, don't you find it odd that Obama held these meetings in secret, yet the secret wasn't kept very well, was it? Apparently, Mr. Chief Pastor acted as Obama's mouthpiece. He did get the news out there, didn't he? Why would Mr. Humble Pie Obama have to toot his own horn when he had a willing "surrogate" do it on his behalf? Obama's "chief pastor" let the great secret out of the bottle for public consumption. And knowing the lamestream media who had a lovefest with Obama, this story was very likely in many publications and newscasts, etc.

As far as Trump is concerned, if you're brutally honest with yourself, we both know that if he had done anything that even remotely resembled Obama's showmanship, the lamestream media would have mercilessly lambasted Trump for cruelly manipulating the parents and exploiting a terrible tragedy. We both know this.

[Tom]

Younger brother Zachary Cruz who turns 18 next week was committed involuntarily to a mental facility on Friday.
@NYPost


Hope it's not this.......

[jk3521]

(So why bring Jesus and the bible into this...to prove what exactly?) As the Matthew 5 passage asks, ..."what do you (Jews) do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles (non-believers) do the same".


Give it a rest! ...Will you! ... Jesus !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA1sx-vyWVk&t=49s

[boxcar]

Give it a rest! ...Will you! ... Jesus !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA1sx-vyWVk&t=49s

Tell it to Fan Dan. He's the one that posted the article that had the Name in it that apparent riles you up so much. Take the issue up with him.

[woodtoo]

Hope it's not this.......

I believe it is as the article stated he was given an ultimatum where he was living "leave your guns at home son or you'll not be living here" not sure if it was the same gun.
Authorities certainly made some major errors with these 2 brothers, I hope a big lesson is learned and it is not all for naught. And I'm not talking about tougher gun laws except if it relates to access for the mentally unstable.

[Tom]

One statistic we will never know is how many shootings have been stopped by getting to the potential shooter early on.

[woodtoo]

Uh oh, this is the same School board as the Treyvon Martin case. If you recall in that case the school was adamant about keeping arrests down....well not really down but not reporting to the police to make everything look better.:blush:

There is a new article by Sundance at "The Last Refuge"

Sundance does real investigative work, seeking the truth through facts. Please check it out.

[woodtoo]

If he had been charged for just one of his prior crimes he would have been denied purchasing a gun.

[Clocker]

Tell it to Fan Dan. He's the one that posted the article that had the Name in it that apparent riles you up so much. Take the issue up with him.

No problem. I, and I am sure many others, did not read either his post or yours.

Anyone that did got what they deserved.

[boxcar]

No problem. I, and I am sure many others, did not read either his post or yours.

Anyone that did got what they deserved.

I don't know why anyone was offended. The post dealt with how the left uses Jesus and waxes Christian when it suits their purpose, and I exposed how one (admittedly with spiritual discernment) can tell, from the biblical text the left uses, when they're up to their old manipulative, exploitive tricks.

[Clocker]

A Florida woman who was named "Teacher of the Year" in her area says that the problem isn't guns. The problem is society in general and parents in particular.

Until we, as a country, are willing to get serious and talk about mental health issues, lack of available care for the mental health issues, lack of discipline in the home, horrendous lack of parental support when the schools are trying to control horrible behavior at school (oh no! Not MY KID. What did YOU do to cause my kid to react that way?), lack of moral values, and yes, I’ll say it - violent video games that take away all sensitivity to ANY compassion for others’ lives, as well as reality TV that makes it commonplace for people to constantly scream up in each others’ faces and not value any other person but themselves, we will have a gun problem in school. https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/teacher-year-blames-parents-modern-culture-school-shootings

[PaceAdvantage]

A Florida woman who was named "Teacher of the Year" in her area says that the problem isn't guns. The problem is society in general and parents in particular.Duh!

[woodtoo]

Duh!

Easy for you to say but what about people that lack common sense.

[BaffertsWig]

A Florida woman who was named "Teacher of the Year" in her area says that the problem isn't guns. The problem is society in general and parents in particular.

https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/teacher-year-blames-parents-modern-culture-school-shootings


Why can't it be a multifaceted problem instead of just "oh, it's the parenting (or lack thereof)?"

[thaskalos]

A Florida woman who was named "Teacher of the Year" in her area says that the problem isn't guns. The problem is society in general and parents in particular.

https://www.truthrevolt.org/news/teacher-year-blames-parents-modern-culture-school-shootings

IMO...the "Teacher of the Year" is full-of-shit. No matter how "disciplined" the kids are raised to be by their parents...there will still be a tiny percentage of them who will grow up to be murderous thugs. And, when these murderous thugs are later arrested...it will hardly be surprising to discover that they were brought up in a super-strict home environment by parents who served in police departments or the military. These killing sprees aren't carried out by kids who would otherwise be "normal", had it not been for their "neglectful" parents; the parents could all be like June and Ward Cleaver...and still there would be a tiny population of "monsters" in our society.

I visited my kid's college on student orientation day last year...and I sat with the other parents during a question-and-answer session orchestrated by the faculty of this "bastion of higher learning". It was there when I discovered that a student could get addicted to drugs or get pregnant while on campus...and the parents wouldn't be told. The parents couldn't even go online and check on their kids' grades without the kids' permission, we were told...because our kids were now 'legal adults'...and they had entered into a "confidentiality agreement" with the school, whereby the parents were to be kept in the dark about their kids' on-campus behavior. I raised my hand, and when I was called...I asked the faculty member: "If our kids are now 'legal adults'...then, why do you guys come to the parents at ALL? Why don't you sit down with these 'legal adults', and work out the tuition-payment agreement with them...while keeping the parents in the dark about that as well?". The faculty member snickered...even though he suspected that I might be dead-serious. This is the college environment in which our kids are raised...and our "Teacher of the Year" is talking to us here about 'discipline and control" :rolleyes:? What good is discipline in middle school...if it's thrown away in COLLEGE?

[PaceAdvantage]

No surprise there. A girl under 18 could get pregnant and have an abortion (even a 13yo) and not need any parental notice before having the medical procedure (at least in certain states...not sure if this is now a nationwide thing).

The "it takes a village to raise a child" meme is now in full effect.

Eventually, parents won't be necessary at all. The state will fill that role completely.

[FantasticDan]

No surprise there. A girl under 18 could get pregnant and have an abortion (even a 13yo) and not need any parental notice before having the medical procedure (at least in certain states...not sure if this is now a nationwide thing).
It's very much not a nationwide thing. 37 states require parental involvement.

https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/parental-involvement-minors-abortions

[Clocker]

Why can't it be a multifaceted problem instead of just "oh, it's the parenting (or lack thereof)?"

It is. It is too easy for crazy people to get guns. But the reality is that no proposed gun legislation would have stopped any recent school shooting. One gun-related proposal that has been shown to work elsewhere is to arm school guards and/or teachers. Liberals insist that the only way to keep schools safe is to make them gun-free zones, a ban that only law-abiding citizens respect.

Why do liberals totally dismiss any hint that society or parents are at least part of the problem? Why do they just keep repeating the same old mantra: the problem is guns, and gun controls aren't working so we need more gun controls?

[FantasticDan]

It is. It is too easy for crazy people to get guns. But the reality is that no proposed gun legislation would have stopped any recent school shooting.National 21 to buy a gun wouldn't have stopped Parkland?

[thaskalos]

It is. It is too easy for crazy people to get guns. But the reality is that no proposed gun legislation would have stopped any recent school shooting. One gun-related proposal that has been shown to work elsewhere is to arm school guards and/or teachers. Liberals insist that the only way to keep schools safe is to make them gun-free zones, a ban that only law-abiding citizens respect.

Why do liberals totally dismiss any hint that society or parents are at least part of the problem? Why do they just keep repeating the same old mantra: the problem is guns, and gun controls aren't working so we need more gun controls?

I am a liberal...and I readily admit that society and the parents are part of the problem. But our "Teacher of the Year" was particularly tough on the parents...who both have to go out and work so they could adequately provide for their kids.

Is it the PARENTS' fault that a rifle was allowed into a school?

[boxcar]

IMO...the "Teacher of the Year" is full-of-shit. No matter how "disciplined" the kids are raised to be by their parents...there will still be a tiny percentage of them who will grow up to be murderous thugs.

So, your solution to all these shootings if to forget about discipline since it is not 100% guaranteed to produce perfect results. Therefore, to get really, really good results, we should outlaw guns to all civilians so that there will be more than a tiny percentage of child thugs who will get their guns from even bigger criminals who specialize in their "black market" or underground sales? This is your solution?



I visited my kid's college on student orientation day last year...and I sat with the other parents during a question-and-answer session orchestrated by the faculty of this "bastion of higher learning". It was there when I discovered that a student could get addicted to drugs or get pregnant while on campus...and the parents wouldn't be told. The parents couldn't even go online and check on their kids' grades without the kids' permission, we were told...because our kids were now 'legal adults'...and they had entered into a "confidentiality agreement" with the school, whereby the parents were to be kept in the dark about their kids' on-campus behavior. I raised my hand, and when I was called...I asked the faculty member: "If our kids are now 'legal adults'...then, why do you guys come to the parents at ALL? Why don't you sit down with these 'legal adults', and work out the tuition-payment agreement with them...while keeping the parents in the dark about that as well?". The faculty member snickered...even though he suspected that I might be dead-serious. This is the college environment in which our kids are raised...and our "Teacher of the Year" is talking to us here about 'discipline and control" :rolleyes:? What good is discipline in middle school...if it's thrown away in COLLEGE?

Wouldn't better disciplined kiddies early in life, who grow up respecting their parents, be more likely to be more transparent and honest with their parents when they reached college? Or should we toss the idea of discipline in this situation, too, because it would not produce perfect results? Should this be the excuse we use to forgo the pursuit of excellence -- to quit striving for perfection?

Is there anything perfect in this world?

[PaceAdvantage]

It's very much not a nationwide thing. 37 states require parental involvement.

https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/parental-involvement-minors-abortionsThanks.

The list of states that don't require any parental involvement reads like a who's who of liberalville:

California (shocking!), Connecticut, D.C., Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Vermont, Washington

[boxcar]

I am a liberal...and I readily admit that society and the parents are part of the problem. But our "Teacher of the Year" was particularly tough on the parents...who both have to go out and work so they could adequately provide for their kids.

Is it the PARENTS' fault that a rifle was allowed into a school?

Errr...the rifle isn't the bad guy here. IT isn't morally culpable.

[thaskalos]

So, your solution to all these shootings if to forget about discipline since it is not 100% guaranteed to produce perfect results. Therefore, to get really, really good results, we should outlaw guns to all civilians so that there will be more than a tiny percentage of child thugs who will get their guns from even bigger criminals who specialize in their "black market" or underground sales? This is your solution?


My friend...you have me confused with someone else. I carry a handgun on my person on a semi-daily basis...and I have no qualms about using it, if the situation demands it. But I know that I carry my weapon for self-protection against the riff-raff of society. I'm not naive enough to believe that, by arming myself, I am protecting myself against the military forces of my own government. :rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

Errr...the rifle isn't the bad guy here. IT isn't morally culpable.

Oh...so keeping rifles out of the schools isn't something that you would recommend?

[boxcar]

My friend...you have me confused with someone else. I carry a handgun on my person on a semi-daily basis...and I have no qualms about using it, if the situation demands it. But I know that I carry my weapon for self-protection against the riff-raff of society. I'm not naive enough to believe that, by arming myself, I am protecting myself against the military forces of my own government. :rolleyes:

Kool! :cool: So...if you feel protected by packin', then wouldn't licensed conceal and carry people in schools feel protected and to be protecting the kids? Frankly, I wouldn't mind teachers packin', if they were so inclined.

[boxcar]

Oh...so keeping rifles out of the schools isn't something that you would recommend?

What I would not recommend is making kids defenseless sitting ducks.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not naive enough to believe that, by arming myself, I am protecting myself against the military forces of my own government. :rolleyes:Tell that to the Vietnamese, or the Afghans...they did pretty well against our military and the Soviet's...

[thaskalos]

Kool! :cool: So...if you feel protected by packin', then wouldn't licensed conceal and carry people in schools feel protected and to be protecting the kids? Frankly, I wouldn't mind teachers packin', if they were so inclined.

My gun-law arguments have always been with the folks who think that it's "normal procedure" to sell military-style assault rifles to anyone who request them.

[Clocker]

This is the college environment in which our kids are raised...and our "Teacher of the Year" is talking to us here about 'discipline and control" :rolleyes:? What good is discipline in middle school...if it's thrown away in COLLEGE?

The child is, or should be, largely "raised" before getting to college. And if the child does have discipline before going to college, he or she can remain so despite the college policies. Or go to a college that maintains an appropriate level of supervision on its students.

The reality is that if a child is attending college on the parent's dime, that child is a dependent and should be subject to certain parental controls. It is still the parent's role to see that those controls are effective, either by raising a child that can be trusted, or by selecting a college that will provide appropriate supervision, or by cutting the cord.

[thaskalos]

The child is, or should be, largely "raised" before getting to college. And if the child does have discipline before going to college, he or she can remain so despite the college policies. Or go to a college that maintains an appropriate level of supervision on its students.

The reality is that if a child is attending college on the parent's dime, that child is a dependent and should be subject to certain parental controls. It is still the parent's role to see that those controls are effective, either by raising a child that can be trusted, or by selecting a college that will provide appropriate supervision, or by cutting the cord.

How about not blaming the parent for the behavior of the "child"...has this ever occurred to you? Do all the "great parents" raise "great kids"? Is our world THAT "simple"...in your experience? Because, to me...our world seems full of "good people", who sometimes do "bad things". And, in some cases...VERY bad things.

[elysiantraveller]

My gun-law arguments have always been with the folks who think that it's "normal procedure" to sell military-style assault rifles to anyone who request them.

Military-style assault rifles? :confused:

This one holds 3 rounds. How many does your carry piece hold?

[thaskalos]

Military-style assault rifles? :confused:

When you buy your semi-automatic rifles...is it because you feel that you need protection against whatever U.S. Armed Forces may descend upon you?

[elysiantraveller]

When you buy your semi-automatic rifles...is it because you feel that you need protection against whatever U.S. Armed Forces may descend upon you?

The one pictured in the previous post I certainly wouldn't want to use.

I buy/build my guns for a specific purpose. No different than you. I do have a SHTF gun that I built and have no intention of EVER using for its intended purpose. Much like you with your hand gun which is likely a revolver with a double action in a very comfortable caliber for you because you made a purchase to fill a certain role.

[thaskalos]

This one holds 3 rounds. How many does your carry piece hold?

The difference between us is that I would only consider shooting at something that looks to do me harm.

[boxcar]

My gun-law arguments have always been with the folks who think that it's "normal procedure" to sell military-style assault rifles to anyone who request them.

And if those weapons were outlawed, what makes you think people wouldn't be able to buy them on the black market?

[elysiantraveller]

The difference between us is that I would only consider shooting at something that looks to do me harm.

Then how are you any different than the guy who buys an AR for an emergency?

I never carry FWIW.

[elysiantraveller]

National 21 to buy a gun wouldn't have stopped Parkland?

No.

The gun was purchased a year in advance. Hand guns have a 21 age and the majority of murders occur with them and mostly affect the demographic that legally isn't allowed to own them.

The age thing doesn't work.

[thaskalos]

Then how are you any different than the guy who buys an AR for an emergency?

I never carry FWIW.

If I don't carry...then I don't feel protected. Whatever "danger" I've ever encountered in my life has always been "on the road"...at "home" I feel safe. A weapon would be of no use to me if it sits in my desk drawer.

Am I the same as the guy who buys an AR? Maybe...but I'm still not foolish enough to think that, by doing so, I am somehow protecting myself against a government attack.

[fast4522]

Long guns I would steer you to a Remington 1100, like it because it fits in Trap shooting and home defense. Females love the AR15, less kick and very easy to master in a formal training setting that believe it or not they are all for.

[elysiantraveller]

If I don't carry...then I don't feel protected. Whatever "danger" I've ever encountered in my life has always been "on the road"...at "home" I feel safe. A weapon would be of no use to me if it sits in my desk drawer.

Am I the same as the guy who buys an AR? Maybe...but I'm still not foolish enough to think that, by doing so, I am somehow protecting myself against a government attack.

We are products of our environment.

When I was a child my home was broken in to. I can assure my home is not one you want to break into now as it will not end well. As far as not carrying I've never felt the need to except when I was younger working in a pretty rough area. There is a firearm in my car 95% of the time but that is far more a product of my lifestyle than any desire for protection.

As far as why I have a SHTF weapon the answer is simple... Because I can and preparedness is key. Do I ever plan on slugging it out with Marines or National Guardsmen? No, of course not. The more likely event is a power grid failure, earthquake, race riot, flood, terrorist act, you name it.

[elysiantraveller]

Long guns I would steer you to a Remington 1100, like it because it fits in Trap shooting and home defense. Females love the AR15, less kick and very easy to master in a formal training setting that believe it or not they are all for.

For the house I'd recommend a pump over a gas anything but yes a shotgun is a better home defense weapon than a run of the mill AR.

[PaceAdvantage]

The armed insurrection discussion is also interesting though because I think most vastly underestimate the people's chances. Especially with if a sizeable portion of the population were sympathetic towards them.Plus, not every member of the US armed forces is going to be so gung-ho about going to war against their fellow Americans, whether they be armed or not...which of course is part of your "sizable portion" sympathetic comment.

[elysiantraveller]

Plus, not every member of the US armed forces is going to be so gung-ho about going to war against their fellow Americans, whether they be armed or not...which of course is part of your "sizable portion" sympathetic comment.

If 1 out of every 10 Americans who owns a axe went out one night and cut down a pole you would have nationwide anarchy the next morning.

[jocko699]

The more likely event is a power grid failure, earthquake, race riot, flood, terrorist act, you name it.

I completely agree with this comment. I am also fully prepared if needed. My AR-15's and handguns have only been used at the range. If God forbid one of the above mentioned does happen my family and I are prepared.

[Tom]

Easy for you to say but what about people that lack common sense.

Now you're talking BREEDING control, not GUN control.

[FantasticDan]

If 1 out of every 10 Americans who owns a axe went out one night and cut down a pole you would have nationwide anarchy the next morning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9NMt42il4Q

[elysiantraveller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9NMt42il4Q

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:Ghostbusters References:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

Point still stands though and history is littered with revolutions. Every global hegemon has been undone by revolution. As your boy says;

"Revolution is the locomotive of history."
- Marx

;)

[barahona44]

If 1 out of every 10 Americans who owns a axe went out one night and cut down a pole you would have nationwide anarchy the next morning.

I don't think there's that many Polish people in this country.

[chadk66]

National 21 to buy a gun wouldn't have stopped Parkland?how's it working out in Chicago?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by FantasticDan View Post
National 21 to buy a gun wouldn't have stopped Parkland?

You cannot prove that it would.
There a lot of ways to get a gun besides legally.
You are speculating. He could have gotten one from the obama people - they have handed them out freely in the past.

If a guy is going to break the law against murder, what makes you think he will obey a law about buying a gun? Or show up with worse, like bombs?

You guys are looking at this with blinders on and you already have decided what the solution before even defining the problem.

[RunForTheRoses]

No surprise there. A girl under 18 could get pregnant and have an abortion (even a 13yo) and not need any parental notice before having the medical procedure (at least in certain states...not sure if this is now a nationwide thing).

The "it takes a village to raise a child" meme is now in full effect.

Eventually, parents won't be necessary at all. The state will fill that role completely.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/20/delaware-may-let-students-choose-their-race-gender-without-parental-consent.html

[mrhorseplayer]

I wonder how many of the children that attend the school who were present the day of this shooting want more gun control?

[JustRalph]

I wonder how many of the children that attend the school who were present the day of this shooting want more gun control?

And they would be wrong. They are all over TV today being exploited by the left. They don’t know what they are talking about....

Next up knives!

http://abc27.com/2018/01/22/sentencing-slated-in-stabbing-at-pennsylvania-high-school/

[hcap]

And they would be wrong. They are all over TV today being exploited by the left They don’t know what they are talking about.....

Another tin foil alt right conspiracy theory.
As I said off topic is imploding and you seem to be lighting many of the matches

[hcap]

Next up knives!

http://abc27.com/2018/01/22/sentencing-slated-in-stabbing-at-pennsylvania-high-school/Again with this total nonsense?

Tell you what I'ii see you and raise the disgust level some more points

http://www.jacksonville.com/zz/news/20180220/ohio-middle-schooler-takes-gun-to-school-shoots-himself-in-bathroom

"Ohio middle schooler takes gun to school, shoots himself in bathroom"

[FantasticDan]

.
Another tin foil alt right conspiracy theory.

But it's nice when at least some of the lying a-holes face consequences..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/02/20/a-lawmakers-aide-called-school-shooting-survivors-actors-within-hours-he-was-fired/?utm_term=.708a2944dca6

[PaceAdvantage]

Repeal the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all existing firearms owned by private citizens.

That's the only way the left will be satisfied on this issue.

No reason to debate when this is the only outcome they want. And the only outcome that will guarantee the children of irresponsible parents will have one less way to Darwin themselves.

[FantasticDan]

Repeal the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all existing firearms owned by private citizens. That's the only way the left will be satisfied on this issue. No reason to debate when this is the only outcome they want.
Okay everyone, PA says it's settled. Wrap it up! :ThmbUp:

[hcap]

Okay everyone, PA says it's settled. Wrap it up! :ThmbUp:Ok, stick a knife in it.:)

[Inner Dirt]

How naive do you have to be to think more gun control laws will stop a homicidal maniac from committing premeditated mass murder? A nut like that would just make a bomb if he couldn't get a gun, which ingredients can be purchased at a local hardware store and I am pretty sure you could find instructions on the internet. Guns capable of holding magazines of up to 100 rounds have been around for over a century, they are not responsible for increased mass shootings. Anyone with a lick of common sense should understand that.

[boxcar]

How naive do you have to be to think more gun control laws will stop a homicidal maniac from committing premeditated mass murder? A nut like that would just make a bomb if he couldn't get a gun, which ingredients can be purchased at a local hardware store and I am pretty sure you could find instructions on the internet. Guns capable of holding magazines of up to 100 rounds have been around for over a century, they are not responsible for increased mass shootings. Anyone with a lick of common sense should understand that.

How has making drugs illegal been working out? The laws have done a really great job of keeping the drugs out of the hands (or noses, or veins or where ever else) of those who want them, haven't they?

[JustRalph]

Those kids are being played so badly. They are pawns. There is a reason 15 yr olds don’t set policy in this country. Because they are dumb sacks of shit.

The press is taking advantage of them and their parents are too stupid to realize it.

The more you press for more gun laws, the harder you will get pressed back.

[Inner Dirt]

Those kids are being played so badly. They are pawns. There is a reason 15 yr olds don’t set policy in this country. Because they are dumb sacks of shit.

The press is taking advantage of them and their parents are too stupid to realize it.

The more you press for more gun laws, the harder you will get pressed back.

Not me, I knew everything at that age. Not till I moved out on my own a couple months past my 17 birthday did I realize I wasn't as smart as I thought I was.

[Tom]

Those kids are being played so badly. They are pawns. There is a reason 15 yr olds don’t set policy in this country. Because they are dumb sacks of shit.

The press is taking advantage of them and their parents are too stupid to realize it.

The more you press for more gun laws, the harder you will get pressed back.

It's not like they are there as a result of some big discussion on the topic. They are kids who were traumatized last week. The bottom feeders on the left have no intention of letting that crisis go unused, like they are now using the kids.

No one cares about the dead kids or the living ones.
Just an opportunity being seized.

[Clocker]

Repeal the 2nd Amendment and confiscate all existing firearms owned by private citizens.

That's the only way the left will be satisfied on this issue.



You doubt that would put an end to suicides in this country, especially teens? :eek:

[Clocker]

Not me, I knew everything at that age. Not till I moved out on my own a couple months past my 17 birthday did I realize I wasn't as smart as I thought I was.

I believe it was Mark Twain who said that he left home when he was a young man. When he returned to visit some years later, he was amazed how much smarter his father had gotten in that time.

[Track Collector]

I have not read each and every posting to this thread, so my apologies in advance if this as been discussed before.

I'm sure that improvements can be made in both changes to the existing gun laws and the effective enforcement of whatever laws are in effect, but it seems to me that the one aspect of the discussion that virtually no one wants to talk about is: Why is it that today vs. many years ago, a greater number of the population consider killing as a viable AND ACCEPTABLE means to expressing one's anger and/or dealing with differences we have with one another? And perhaps the answer is irrelevant anyway because to understand the answers would mean to acknowledge some of the causes, to which a significant number of folks would be unwilling agents of change.

[thaskalos]

I have not read each and every posting to this thread, so my apologies in advance if this as been discussed before.

I'm sure that improvements can be made in both changes to the existing gun laws and the effective enforcement of whatever laws are in effect, but it seems to me that the one aspect of the discussion that virtually no one wants to talk about is: Why is it that today vs. many years ago, a greater number of the population consider killing as a viable AND ACCEPTABLE means to expressing one's anger and/or dealing with differences we have with one another? And perhaps the answer is irrelevant anyway because to understand the answers would mean to acknowledge some of the causes, to which a significant number of folks would be unwilling agents of change.

I mustn't be as observant as I thought I was. I haven't noticed that killing innocent people has become a more "accepted" means of venting one's anger. To "accept" something means to condone it after the fact...and I haven't seen any of that taking place.

[chadk66]

The left has no leg to stand on in this discussion given how they couldn't even prosecute Kate's shooter. Screw the left at this point.

[Clocker]

Better late than never. :rolleyes:

Deputies will carry rifles on the grounds of local schools in Broward County in the wake of the Parkland school shooting, Broward Sheriff Scott Israel announced Wednesday.

Israel said that only deputies who are "qualified and trained" will carry the rifles on school grounds.
...

A reporter asked if officers will carry AR-15’s, and Israel said some would.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Broward-Deputies-to-Carry-Rifles-on-School-Grounds-474763143.html

[mrhorseplayer]

seen were those kids are split on gun control however you know the only ones the media cares about.

[Clocker]

Are the schools a big part of the problem?

From The Federalist, "13 Ways Public Schools Incubate Mental Instability In Kids"



But never fear. Although people have been writing for decades about the inability of mammoth government bureaucracies to handle children appropriately, there’s always a new fad to the rescue, always another shade of lipstick to apply to the pig.

The jury should have been in a long time ago. As long as we institutionalize kids into prison-like schools built on a factory model and without any other choices, we’ll get more and more psychic alienation and social dysfunction. In this scenario, gun bans simply mean future mass killings would likely involve more knives, cars plowed into crowds, chemicals, and perhaps more bombs concocted from fertilizer and other household items.

It is well past time we investigate power elites hell-bent on preserving an alienating mass schooling bureaucracy that controls the minds and lives of all children. When will we stop feeding this beast?
http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/21/13-ways-public-schools-incubate-mental-instability-kids/

[Mulerider]

I mustn't be as observant as I thought I was. I haven't noticed that killing innocent people has become a more "accepted" means of venting one's anger. To "accept" something means to condone it after the fact...and I haven't seen any of that taking place.

I won't speak for Track Collector, but I took his post to mean that it has become more "acceptable" to the perpetrators, not to the population at large; that is to say, where you or I might have settled a dispute with a fistfight, there is a portion of the population that now deems it acceptable to engage in lethal force to settle disputes or grievances, real or perceived.

Mule

[FantasticDan]

https://twitter.com/thedweck/status/966425285552889856

[Track Collector]

I mustn't be as observant as I thought I was. I haven't noticed that killing innocent people has become a more "accepted" means of venting one's anger. To "accept" something means to condone it after the fact...and I haven't seen any of that taking place.

I am talking from the perspective of the killer, and with the assumption that the motive is anger/revenge-based (rather than attention seeking). Somewhere and somehow the idea of committing these terrible acts of violence is conceived, and unfortunately, nothing within that person's internal compass ultimately prevents the idea from morphing into action. Some may have mental illnesses, but others know the difference between right and wrong and deliberately choose to do evil things.

[thaskalos]

I won't speak for Track Collector, but I took his post to mean that it has become more "acceptable" to the perpetrators, not to the population at large; that is to say, where you or I might have settled a dispute with a fistfight, there is a portion of the population that now deems it acceptable to engage in lethal force to settle disputes or grievances, real or perceived.

Mule

I might easily be wrong about this...but I am not seeing people killing each other in order to settle disputes. I see deranged people taking innocent lives...or killing to appease their self-interests. These aren't the spur-of-the-moment crimes that a "dispute" would cause. These are the premeditated actions of evil minds...IMO.

[thaskalos]

I am talking from the perspective of the killer, and with the assumption that the motive is anger/revenge-based (rather than attention seeking). Somewhere and somehow the idea of committing these terrible acts of violence is conceived, and unfortunately, nothing within that person's internal compass ultimately prevents the idea from morphing into action. Some may have mental illnesses, but others know the difference between right and wrong and deliberately choose to do evil things.

Had I seen this post of yours...then I wouldn't have written mine.

[Track Collector]

I won't speak for Track Collector, but I took his post to mean that it has become more "acceptable" to the perpetrators, not to the population at large; that is to say, where you or I might have settled a dispute with a fistfight, there is a portion of the population that now deems it acceptable to engage in lethal force to settle disputes or grievances, real or perceived.

Mule

Yes, and Thanks!

(It often takes me a while to compose my reply, thus your posting before mine.).

[davew]

I have not read each and every posting to this thread, so my apologies in advance if this as been discussed before.

I'm sure that improvements can be made in both changes to the existing gun laws and the effective enforcement of whatever laws are in effect, but it seems to me that the one aspect of the discussion that virtually no one wants to talk about is: Why is it that today vs. many years ago, a greater number of the population consider killing as a viable AND ACCEPTABLE means to expressing one's anger and/or dealing with differences we have with one another? And perhaps the answer is irrelevant anyway because to understand the answers would mean to acknowledge some of the causes, to which a significant number of folks would be unwilling agents of change.

The video games kids played in the 70's and early 80's have progressed from Pong and Space Invaders or Asteroids to the current ones which are heavy in people going around shooting people in a war-like setting.

[Mulerider]

I might easily be wrong about this...but I am not seeing people killing each other in order to settle disputes. I see deranged people taking innocent lives...or killing to appease their self-interests. These aren't the spur-of-the-moment crimes that a "dispute" would cause. These are the premeditated actions of evil minds...IMO.

Well, actually I used two terms: disputes and grievances. Disputes (drugs, turf wars, etc.) are probably responsible for the high number of individual homicides we see in many urban areas. Grievances, on the other hand (bullying, social shunning, etc.) are more likely to trigger a larger scale response in someone suffering from a mental disorder, or whose thinking is compromised by psychotropic drugs that he may be prescribed to treat his mental issues.

Personally, I think the evidence is rapidly accumulating to indict the use of psychotropic drugs as a causal agent in these horrific events.

[thaskalos]

Well, actually I used two terms: disputes and grievances. Disputes (drugs, turf wars, etc.) are probably responsible for the high number of individual homicides we see in many urban areas. Grievances, on the other hand (bullying, social shunning, etc.) are more likely to trigger a larger scale response in someone suffering from a mental disorder, or whose thinking is compromised by psychotropic drugs that he may be prescribed to treat his mental issues.

Personally, I think the evidence is rapidly accumulating to indict the use of psychotropic drugs as a causal agent in these horrific events.

I don't know why people commit the heinous acts that they do...but I do know that man's evil nature has been on full display since ancient times. The ancient Spartans used to throw their infirm infants off a cliff...and they called it "civil duty". And the bible is replete with acts of horrific cruelty, supposedly commanded by a vengeful God. I have a friend who works as a correctional officer in a Chicago maximum-security prison...and he tells me stories about the things that he sees on the job. And it infuriates me because I know that, as many "monsters" as there are locked behind bars...there are probably just as many walking unnoticed among us.

Our world is a dangerous place...and we shouldn't be reminded of that only whenever we hear of another senseless killing spree.

[Inner Dirt]

The video games kids played in the 70's and early 80's have progressed from Pong and Space Invaders or Asteroids to the current ones which are heavy in people going around shooting people in a war-like setting.


I was in High School when the first video arcade games came out, this game created controversy for being too violent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBBtt72aJLA

[Nutz and Boltz]

http://abc7ny.com/politics/sheriff-deputy-on-duty-at-parkland-school-never-went-inside/3125873/

[Nutz and Boltz]

What good is it to have armed protection when the "protector" chickens out ?

[boxcar]

The video games kids played in the 70's and early 80's have progressed from Pong and Space Invaders or Asteroids to the current ones which are heavy in people going around shooting people in a war-like setting.

It appears man has had this perennial fatal attraction to blood shedding from the very beginning (Gen 4:8; 6:11).

[PaceAdvantage]

https://twitter.com/thedweck/status/966425285552889856Oh snap! Where's my Obama mic drop video clip?

[elysiantraveller]

Oh snap! Where's my Obama mic drop video clip?

Honestly that pisses me off to no end...

[JustRalph]

http://abc7ny.com/politics/sheriff-deputy-on-duty-at-parkland-school-never-went-inside/3125873/

Devastating news.........I don’t even know what to think.......

[Clocker]

Devastating news.........I don’t even know what to think.......

For those who have not read the posts on this subject due to lack of any clue as to what they are about, there was an armed sheriff's deputy at the school during the shooting. The deputy never went into the building during the shooting.

The deputy was suspended and then resigned. Other reports say that the officer resigned and retired, indicating it may have been an older person finishing out a career as a "school resource officer".

Two other Broward County officers have been put on administrative duties, but their names were not released. The investigation into those officers has to do with the tips reported about the shooter prior to last week’s massacre.https://www.yahoo.com/news/broward-sheriff-deputy-resigns-video-232603758.html

[JustRalph]

Let me meme

[thaskalos]

For those who have not read the posts on this subject due to lack of any clue as to what they are about, there was an armed sheriff's deputy at the school during the shooting. The deputy never went into the building during the shooting.

The deputy was suspended and then resigned. Other reports say that the officer resigned and retired, indicating it may have been an older person finishing out a career as a "school resource officer".

https://www.yahoo.com/news/broward-sheriff-deputy-resigns-video-232603758.html

Deputy Scot Peterson is 54 years old. Hardly the "older person" who might have been expected to hide from a shooter who was targeting school-children.

[FantasticDan]

Deputy Scot Peterson is 54 years old. Hardly the "older person" who might have been expected to hide from a shooter who was targeting school-children.True, but still an older cop likely on the cusp of retirement. Seems pretty obvious what he was thinking, and why the Sheriff could barely restrain his contempt for his inaction.

[Clocker]

Deputy Scot Peterson is 54 years old. Hardly the "older person" who might have been expected to hide from a shooter who was targeting school-children.

Something I was not aware of. That just makes it look worse for local law enforcement.

[PaceAdvantage]

Honestly that pisses me off to no end...The Obama mic drop? It's a thing of beauty...I can't get enough...

[elysiantraveller]

The Obama mic drop? It's a thing of beauty...I can't get enough...

No.

The fact that a person with the ability, training, and means to put an end to it did nothing...

[PaceAdvantage]

No.

The fact that a person with the ability, training, and means to put an end to it did nothing...The mic drop thing was to the tweet dissing Trump...think our signals are crossing here...

Anyway, yeah, it's pretty jarring to hear that about the deputy who backed off, but it's not a complete shock to hear something like that happened.

[elysiantraveller]

The mic drop thing was to the tweet dissing Trump...think our signals are crossing here...

Anyway, yeah, it's pretty jarring to hear that about the deputy who backed off, but it's not a complete shock to hear something like that happened.

Oh.. yeah... that tweet actually is kinda funny.

The second thing though... Yeah... it's pretty shocking.

Random redneck in Texas stops shooting with his AR truck gun. Trained deputy with 20+ years of experience does nothing... and people wonder why others get firearms for their protection. :faint:

[barahona44]

There were school resource officers in the school system where I taught, usually two at a time.Some were good at engaging with the students, others were outstanding at drinking coffee in the staff room or yakking with their fellow officers who stopped by in the patrol cars in the school parking lot...

[Clocker]

There were school resource officers in the school system where I taught, usually two at a time.Some were good at engaging with the students, others were outstanding at drinking coffee in the staff room or yakking with their fellow officers who stopped by in the patrol cars in the school parking lot...

The officer in question was outside the building at the time. Is that a usual or unusual thing?

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh.. yeah... that tweet actually is kinda funny.

The second thing though... Yeah... it's pretty shocking.

Random redneck in Texas stops shooting with his AR truck gun. Trained deputy with 20+ years of experience does nothing... and people wonder why others get firearms for their protection. :faint:Cop had nothing but his sidearm, right?

Vegas cops didn't immediately storm Paddock's room...and although took heat for that from public and media...apparently it wasn't SOP to do so?

So solo cop, outgunned, was supposed to enter a school building enveloped in chaos with kids and teachers running everywhere, not knowing if there is more than one shooter...sounds kinda like a suicide mission to this civilian...but apparently, that is what he was supposed to do...no backup...according to the sheriff anyway...

Like I said, I'm not all that shocked...

[elysiantraveller]

Cop had nothing but his service revolver, right?

Vegas cops didn't immediately storm Paddock's room...and although took heat for that from public and media...apparently it wasn't SOP to do so?

So solo cop, outgunned, was supposed to enter a school building enveloped in chaos with kids and teachers running everywhere, to go one on one with a guy with an AR-15...sounds kinda like a suicide mission to this civilian...but apparently, that is what he was supposed to do...no backup...according to the sheriff anyway...

Like I said, I'm not all that shocked...

Yes he should have gone in. He's likely carrying a M&P, P226, 1911 or something like that. In a building I'd take my chances with one of those, my 25 years firearm experience, and tens if not hundred of thousands of rounds against a kid whose played too much Call of Duty.

Of course you would go in. I want to be very careful to not shit on people in the uniform, my step brother recently made Captain, but **** yes he should have entered.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes he should have gone in. He's like carrying a M&P, P226, 1911 or something like that.

Of course you would go in.I revised my post and switched to sidearm...service revolver is so old school.

Plus I added that he had no knowledge how many shooters were inside...sounds like a tall order for one cop in that situation.

[elysiantraveller]

I revised my post and switched to sidearm...service revolver is so old school.

Plus I added that he had no knowledge how many shooters were inside...sounds like a tall order for one cop in that situation.

He called in the description of the shooter.

This is not some insurmountable task due to the almighty power of the AR15 (sarcasm implied)... in a building a trained cop should be light years ahead of a kid with his sidearm.

[barahona44]

The officer in question was outside the building at the time. Is that a usual or unusual thing?

They were under the supervision of the police department,not the school administration.Based on what we were told, the department wanted them to be inside the building if there were any problems.The concern wasn't so much outsiders (this program started pre-Colombine)as much as trying to curb gang issues, which was a legitimate concern at the time and also being a backup presence in case things got out of hand.I would also think there might have been an "Officer Friendly" aspect to it but I don't know how official that was.But there was one officer in particular who would go out back a lot (my classroom was one of the few that the parking lot was in view) and he would spend time talking with cops in a patrol car that swung by.My staff would go on their break and inevitably he would be in the staff room drinking coffee."Isn't he supposed to be patrolling the halls"?, they would ask me.Anyway, he was older than the others, who were mostly in their 30's and this may have been giving a veteran officer an easy job in his last years.The officers rotated among the city's 4 high schools and 7 middle schools, so I don't know where he ended up the next year.By the time I retired in 2014, it had pretty much ended due to budget issues.

[JustRalph]

They were under the supervision of the police department,not the school administration.Based on what we were told, the department wanted them to be inside the building if there were any problems.The concern wasn't so much outsiders (this program started pre-Colombine)as much as trying to curb gang issues, which was a legitimate concern at the time and also being a backup presence in case things got out of hand.I would also think there might have been an "Officer Friendly" aspect to it but I don't know how official that was.But there was one officer in particular who would go out back a lot (my classroom was one of the few that the parking lot was in view) and he would spend time talking with cops in a patrol car that swung by.My staff would go on their break and inevitably he would be in the staff room drinking coffee."Isn't he supposed to be patrolling the halls"?, they would ask me.Anyway, he was older than the others, who were mostly in their 30's and this may have been giving a veteran officer an easy job in his last years.The officers rotated among the city's 4 high schools and 7 middle schools, so I don't know where he ended up the next year.By the time I retired in 2014, it had pretty much ended due to budget issues.

When I did it in the mid 90’s the above was my day.

But this was pre Columbine etc. we rotated the duty. I did it 2-3 days a month. Most places have officers who are permanently assigned now

Btw, the latest training is to rush right in and confront these guys because they usually give up immediately or kill themselves.
Good guys with a gun have stopped this before by using those tactics

[Inner Dirt]

He called in the description of the shooter.

This is not some insurmountable task due to the almighty power of the AR15 (sarcasm implied)... in a building a trained cop should be light years ahead of a kid with his sidearm.

Contrary to popular belief, inside a building the way schools are designed the cop who probably has a 9mm pistol with spare loaded magazines is not outgunned by an AR-15. In fact in a confined space you can maneuver and aim the pistol easier than a rifle. Also the cop is professionally trained in marksmanship, tactics and most likely is wearing a bullet proof vest. He is going against a teenager running around randomly shooting people armed with a hard to conceal rifle. He isn't 1/2 mile away from some guy dug in with a 50 cal sniper rifle and a spotter. Advantage cop.

[PaceAdvantage]

Contrary to popular belief, inside a building the way schools are designed the cop who probably has a 9mm pistol with spare loaded magazines is not outgunned by an AR-15. In fact in a confined space you can maneuver and aim the pistol easier than a rifle. Also the cop is professionally trained in marksmanship, tactics and most likely is wearing a bullet proof vest. He is going against a teenager running around randomly shooting people armed with a hard to conceal rifle. He isn't 1/2 mile away from some guy dug in with a 50 cal sniper rifle and a spotter. Advantage cop.Yup...makes total sense to me when put that way.

[boxcar]

Over in the Socialist Union of Western Europe (a/k/a EU) where terrorism abounds, the socialist leaders tell their citizens after a terrorist attack that they should just adapt and move on because this is the new norm. In other words, this is the latest reality in the world.

How come, then, our far left socialist leaders in this country are not singing out of the same hymnal as their EU brethren when it comes to "terror" in our schools? Just tell the parents and kids, this is the new norm and that this new reality is that murderers have abolished gun-free zones in schools a long time ago, so it's a wee bit late to looking for those horses (the good ol' days) that have escaped from the barn quite a while ago. Everyone should just adapt to the new reality and get professional armed good guys into the schools to help mitigate the evil of the bad guys and save lives.

[lamboguy]

you don't hear of to many shooters going into the schools of Vermont and shooting them up because almost everyone there has a gun and the gunman doesn't want to get stopped out.

instead of trying to prohibit guns, they should be encouraging people to keep themselves armed to the hilt. instead of 300 million guns in this country, we need at least double that to keep the peace properly. if the people had the guns that Cruz kid would have never gotten 17 people. he probably would have never walked into that school.

the worst of this ordeal came out that they had a retired cop that was in the school working security, heard the shots and sat on his ass and wouldn't go in the school. he was paid to guard the place and dixied out like a chicken.

[PaceAdvantage]

Three months ago, a gunman shot up a church in rural Texas killing a lot of people...you don't think folks in Texas are carrying firearms?

Your Vermont theory doesn't really hold much water given what happened in Texas recently.

[FantasticDan]

you don't hear of to many shooters going into the schools of Vermont and shooting them up because almost everyone there has a gun and the gunman doesn't want to get stopped out.
He doesn't? What does he "want" after shooting up a school, to go on a Caribbean cruise? :bang:

[Clocker]

Scot Peterson, the deputy working security at the school, had some kind of previous experience involving the shooter. Few details available yet.

Peterson also had a run-in with Cruz prior to the shooting, The Washington Post reports. He is mentioned in a 2016 social services agency investigation into Cruz. The Florida Department of Children and Families report states that Peterson was approached by investigators and “refused to share any information,” with them, “regarding an incident that took place” with Cruz, according to The Post.

The sheriff’s office revealed that in 2016 it received “third hand information” from the son of Cruz’s neighbor that Cruz “planned to shoot up the school.” A deputy contacted the caller, found he had knives and a BB gun and sent the information to the school resource officer, who is not identified in the records but appears to be Peterson. It is not clear if he investigated further.
https://heavy.com/news/2018/02/deputy-sro-scot-scott-peterson/

[PaceAdvantage]

Another mass shooting...another dropped ball by law enforcement...seems to be all too common these days.

Almost every mass killing/terrorist attack lately, we seem to find afterwards that some agency had the person on its radar (FBI, local police, etc).

Then again, we aren't living in the world of Minority Report, so what can LE really do when they encounter someone like Cruz? You can't lock someone up for things they might think, say or write, although I know some people on here would like to see that ability added to LE.

[elysiantraveller]

He doesn't? What does he "want" after shooting up a school, to go on a Caribbean cruise? :bang:

Doesn't matter.

And just like that the gun people have a perfectly legit reason to have guns not take then away...

FBI - dropped the ball
Sheriff Dept. and local LE - dropped the ball
Deputy at school - dropped the ball

[JustRalph]

Three months ago, a gunman shot up a church in rural Texas killing a lot of people...you don't think folks in Texas are carrying firearms?

Your Vermont theory doesn't really hold much water given what happened in Texas recently.

The residents near the church came running with their guns though.......that’s Texas.......

[lamboguy]

Three months ago, a gunman shot up a church in rural Texas killing a lot of people...you don't think folks in Texas are carrying firearms?

Your Vermont theory doesn't really hold much water given what happened in Texas recently.just a different mentality.

[boxcar]

Three months ago, a gunman shot up a church in rural Texas killing a lot of people...you don't think folks in Texas are carrying firearms?

Your Vermont theory doesn't really hold much water given what happened in Texas recently.

Do Texas gun laws require churchgoers to carry guns? Or maybe that particular church taught pacifism to its congregants, which would have discouraged them from arming themselves.

Now for the flip side of the coin: Do you think Russia might have pretty stringent gun control laws? Perhaps as stringent as restricting all or virtually all private gun ownership? But what did all those Russian gun control laws do to prohibit the killing of five Russian innocent churchgoers?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43105171

[Racetrack Playa]

you don't hear of to many shooters going into the schools of Vermont and shooting them up because almost everyone there has a gun and the gunman doesn't want to get stopped out.
.


Vermont has had it fair share of threats

Fair Haven school shooting plot suspect kept journal of plans


https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2018/02/23/fair-haven-school-shooting-plot-suspect-kept-journal-plans/366713002/

[lamboguy]

Vermont has had it fair share of threats

Fair Haven school shooting plot suspect kept journal of plans


https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/news/local/vermont/2018/02/23/fair-haven-school-shooting-plot-suspect-kept-journal-plans/366713002/



planning and doing are 2 different things. i say all the guns in Vermont made this dope think better of it.

[mrhorseplayer]

Three months ago, a gunman shot up a church in rural Texas killing a lot of people...you don't think folks in Texas are carrying firearms?

Your Vermont theory doesn't really hold much water given what happened in Texas recently.


the neighbor to the church shot the gunman who later died from the gunshot wound he recieved from churches neighbor.

[PaceAdvantage]

I know...my only point was to counter lambo's post that places where there is a better chance that the general public is armed, somehow deters people from going on mass rampage shootings.

Texas is gun central...everyone is packing there...didn't deter this guy from killing 26 people...

[boxcar]

I know...my only point was to counter lambo's post that places where there is a better chance that the general public is armed, somehow deters people from going on mass rampage shootings.

Texas is gun central...everyone is packing there...didn't deter this guy from killing 26 people...

"Everyone", huh? And no doubt 24/7, as well?

And Texas is "gun central"? Really? Texas ranks 15 in terms of having the most liberal gun laws. Arizona ranks 1. Alaska ranks 2. These two states must rank gun mania.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-states-for-gun-owners-2015/

Heck...even Swampland ranks ahead of Texax. :lol::lol:

Texas didn't even make it into the top 9 on this site:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/states-loosest-gun-laws.html/?a=viewall

[PaceAdvantage]

"Everyone", huh? And no doubt 24/7, as well?

And Texas is "gun central"? Really? Texas ranks 15 in terms of having the most liberal gun laws. Arizona ranks 1. Alaska ranks 2. These two states must rank gun mania.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-states-for-gun-owners-2015/

Heck...even Swampland ranks ahead of Texax. :lol::lol:

Texas didn't even make it into the top 9 on this site:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/states-loosest-gun-laws.html/?a=viewallNot sure about "gun central," but now I'm pretty sure where "dick central" is...

You're a literalist...I forgot...everything has to be spelled out for you...literary techniques such as hyperbole, to make a point, is lost on you...sorry about that. I'll dumb it down for you in the future. Duly noted.

[lamboguy]

"Everyone", huh? And no doubt 24/7, as well?

And Texas is "gun central"? Really? Texas ranks 15 in terms of having the most liberal gun laws. Arizona ranks 1. Alaska ranks 2. These two states must rank gun mania.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-states-for-gun-owners-2015/

Heck...even Swampland ranks ahead of Texax. :lol::lol:

Texas didn't even make it into the top 9 on this site:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/states-loosest-gun-laws.html/?a=viewall
that survey got to be completely wrong. i have no idea how they could possibly place Vermont 2nd behind Arizona. i have been to both and i would bet you Vermont has at least 10 times more guns than Arizona and Texas put together. those people there are very proficient in shooting their guns as well. mass killers stay away from Vermont because they know they are going down.

i am going to rate Vermont as the safest place to go to school

[boxcar]

Not sure about "gun central," but now I'm pretty sure where "dick central" is...

You're a literalist...I forgot...everything has to be spelled out for you...literary techniques such as hyperbole, to make a point, is lost on you...sorry about that. I'll dumb it down for you in the future. Duly noted.

I'm not so sure you know much of where anything is.

But yes I noticed your hyperbole and chuckled. Pretty desperate straw-clutching to make a very lame point about a state that isn't even in the top 10 of lax gun laws.

I guess it was hyperbole, too, when you said "everyone is packing", heh?

And was it hyperbole, too, when you ASSumed that everyone or maybe even someone was packing heat inside that Texas church, or was that just a pain ol' stupid assumption?

As I recall, you're not too good at analogies, as I had to correct you on one several years ago. Here's a clue for you, Mr. Admin: If you're going to try to draw an analogy between more liberal gun states and very restrictive ones to show that there is little or no difference in tragic outcomes when shootings occur in both types of states, then it would behoove you to make certain that in the specific location of the more liberal state that there were actually armed people in that place. Your analogy, then, would carry a wee bit more credibility. Just sayin'...

Thanks again, for making me look so smart. I'm starting to feel indebted to you. :coffee:

[Tom]

Saw a piece on the news the other night about a school in Colorado where they have a program for teachers to carry concealed after a three day training course in handling/shooing the gun and reacting to a mass shooter in action. The names of the teachers not revealed.

Sounds smart - trained in specifics to a mass shooting.
No matter the gun control laws, as Wayne Lapierre pointed out this week, schools are soft target for shooters. City Hall, football games, malls, all are harder targets.

It is really sad we need to have teachers carry guns to protect out kids, but even sadder to have not carrying.

[boxcar]

Saw a piece on the news the other night about a school in Colorado where they have a program for teachers to carry concealed after a three day training course in handling/shooing the gun and reacting to a mass shooter in action. The names of the teachers not revealed.

Sounds smart - trained in specifics to a mass shooting.
No matter the gun control laws, as Wayne Lapierre pointed out this week, schools are soft target for shooters. City Hall, football games, malls, all are harder targets.

It is really sad we need to have teachers carry guns to protect out kids, but even sadder to have not carrying.

It's very smart! Has been working for the Jews in Israel and it'll work here too. There's a lot of truth in "fighting fire with fire" -- taking a proactive part in preserving life.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not so sure you know much of where anything is.

But yes I noticed your hyperbole and chuckled. Pretty desperate straw-clutching to make a very lame point about a state that isn't even in the top 10 of lax gun laws.

I guess it was hyperbole, too, when you said "everyone is packing", heh?

And was it hyperbole, too, when you ASSumed that everyone or maybe even someone was packing heat inside that Texas church, or was that just a pain ol' stupid assumption?

As I recall, you're not too good at analogies, as I had to correct you on one several years ago. Here's a clue for you, Mr. Admin: If you're going to try to draw an analogy between more liberal gun states and very restrictive ones to show that there is little or no difference in tragic outcomes when shootings occur in both types of states, then it would behoove you to make certain that in the specific location of the more liberal state that there were actually armed people in that place. Your analogy, then, would carry a wee bit more credibility. Just sayin'...

Thanks again, for making me look so smart. I'm starting to feel indebted to you. :coffee:The whole point was that potential killers are DETERRED because of more people carrying. That was lambos point.

Whether or not someone in the church had a gun is a pointless matter.

We're talking about potential whackos plotting to kill - being DETERRED because there are GUNS EVERYWHERE and everyone has one...that was lambo's point about Vermont, correct?

Well, Texas has a lot of guns too...and people like to carry them around...in fact, in that Texas shooting, a citizen with a gun confronted the Texas church shooter outside the church.

But the fact that there is likely to be more people in Texas carrying, as opposed to say, NY, didn't stop him from going to the church and killing 26 people.

Why I have to spell this out is shocking to me.

[PaceAdvantage]

It's very smart! Has been working for the Jews in Israel and it'll work here too. There's a lot of truth in "fighting fire with fire" -- taking a proactive part in preserving life.I would stop teaching in a heartbeat if I felt I had to carry a gun with me to school.

It's absurd and sick. And a symptom of our society crumbling under the guidance of liberals...

[lamboguy]

It's very smart! Has been working for the Jews in Israel and it'll work here too. There's a lot of truth in "fighting fire with fire" -- taking a proactive part in preserving life.that part makes sense, a hawk is not going after a lion, he's going after a defenseless squirrel.its the same thing with these shooters.

[Tom]

Adapt or die.

[boxcar]

The whole point was that potential killers are DETERRED because of more people carrying. That was lambos point.

Whether or not someone in the church had a gun is a pointless matter.

We're talking about potential whackos plotting to kill - being DETERRED because there are GUNS EVERYWHERE and everyone has one...that was lambo's point about Vermont, correct?

Well, Texas has a lot of guns too...and people like to carry them around...in fact, in that Texas shooting, a citizen with a gun confronted the Texas church shooter outside the church.

But the fact that there is likely to be more people in Texas carrying, as opposed to say, NY, didn't stop him from going to the church and killing 26 people.

Why I have to spell this out is shocking to me.

But that's the point, PA. Guns are not EVERYWHERE even in the more liberal areas, such as Florida. Heck...I know far more non-gun owners than I do gun owners -- and I know quite a few gun owners.

And my second point is that if there had been armed churchgoers in that Texas church, the outcome might have been very different. It's pretty likely someone would have tried to defend his or her fellow congregants.

And finally, gun ownership, even gun totin', does not guarantee an assault-free life. To deter is to is basically to discourage. But some people just won't be. Some people are willing to roll the dice and take their chances. But that being said, where are most people being killed today in this country? Isn't in places with very restrictive gun laws, i.e. Chicago, Baltimore, etc.? Can we not, then, logically infer from this that gun ownership is, generally, a good deterrent since there are fewer fatalities by violence in the more states with more liberal gun laws?

[boxcar]

that part makes sense, a hawk is not going after a lion, he's going after a defenseless squirrel.its the same thing with these shooters.

Man -- Excellent point! Bravo, Lamby! :ThmbUp::ThmbUp:

The lessons we can learn from Nature are innumerable! Heck...even the flesh-eating predators of the jungle learn early on to learn to spot and stalk the weak, sick, injured, young and otherwise more vulnerable members of a herd -- and to go after them before those animals who are more whole!

If irrational animals know this, how come so many of us don't, and are fearful of taking preventive measures to preserve life?

[boxcar]

I would stop teaching in a heartbeat if I felt I had to carry a gun with me to school.

It's absurd and sick. And a symptom of our society crumbling under the guidance of liberals...

We live in a very sick world. It's a very sad fact of life. As Tom said, "adapt of die". (And the problem goes a lot deeper than mere liberalism. Liberalism is only a symptom.

Also, I would think that the school system, the police, etc. would only want teachers arming themselves who are willing to do so. Anyone who is not comfortable carrying a weapon should not because they would likely do more harm to themselves or even others.

[PaceAdvantage]

But that's the point, PA. Guns are not EVERYWHERE even in the more liberal areas, such as Florida. Heck...I know far more non-gun owners than I do gun owners -- and I know quite a few gun owners.

And my second point is that if there had been armed churchgoers in that Texas church, the outcome might have been very different. It's pretty likely someone would have tried to defend his or her fellow congregants.None of this followed from lambo's original Vermont post and my follow-up.

The whole original point was about deterrence. Lambo's theory was that people in Vermont are deterred from going on shooting sprees because, apparently, Vermont is a well-armed state.

Texas is also considered another well-armed state...whether it's 11th on the list of 50 or wherever it lies, popular culture has most people believing people in Texas are well armed - whether true or not, it should be an equal deterrent if Lambo's theory holds true.

Didn't stop the church shooter from following through with his plan.

That is the one and only point I was discussing.

[lamboguy]

its time for America to wake up. if no one had guns here, gun control would be great. problem is there are over 300 million guns floating around and every one of them can kill innocent people. now i know the 2nd amendment was when people had to protect themselves against the government and lawmen and if you didn't have a gun you were playing on a non level playing field. today you have drug infested deplorable lowlifes running around that want nothing less than seeing as many mothers that have children cry. its time to make the shooters mothers cry. if kids are going to go to school you are going to need the schools armed up and prepared and ready to take out all threats. i promise you that if they had weapons in schools these dastardly cowards would not walk in them.

on another note, i watched the replay of the town hall. what the hell are they teaching these kids in these schools these days? at the end of the show they were singing some kumbaya song. these kids are all fragile, not one ounce of toughness in them. they all probably need to go in the service to get them toughened up before they go to college.

[MONEY]

"Everyone", huh? And no doubt 24/7, as well?

And Texas is "gun central"? Really? Texas ranks 15 in terms of having the most liberal gun laws. Arizona ranks 1. Alaska ranks 2. These two states must rank gun mania.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/culture-politics-network/best-states-for-gun-owners-2015/

Heck...even Swampland ranks ahead of Texax. :lol::lol:

Texas didn't even make it into the top 9 on this site:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/states-loosest-gun-laws.html/?a=viewall

In Texas we have open carry, in Florida you have this

"Once again Florida Carry, Inc. has demonstrated a lack of concern for Concealed Weapons and Firearms License holders. License holders continue to be abused by law enforcement, prosecutors and the courts. When firearms, that are being lawfully carried concealed, accidentally become exposed to the sight of another person, license holders are being arrested for violating the open carry ban."

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/12/robert-farago/nras-marion-hammer-hammers-florida-carry/

[davew]

its time for America to wake up. if no one had guns here, gun control would be great. problem is there are over 300 million guns floating around and every one of them can kill innocent people. now i know the 2nd amendment was when people had to protect themselves against the government and lawmen and if you didn't have a gun you were playing on a non level playing field. today you have drug infested deplorable lowlifes running around that want nothing less than seeing as many mothers that have children cry. its time to make the shooters mothers cry. if kids are going to go to school you are going to need the schools armed up and prepared and ready to take out all threats. i promise you that if they had weapons in schools these dastardly cowards would not walk in them.

on another note, i watched the replay of the town hall. what the hell are they teaching these kids in these schools these days? at the end of the show they were singing some kumbaya song. these kids are all fragile, not one ounce of toughness in them. they all probably need to go in the service to get them toughened up before they go to college.

but, but, but... the country would be much safer if the only people that had guns are the cops, military and crooks - that's what CNN says

[jocko699]

but, but, but... the country would be much safer if the only people that had guns are the cops, military and crooks - that's what CNN says

And if we can only get the criminals to legally register their guns and go through some sort of gun safety class..........

[Tom]

Originally Posted by davew
but, but, but... the country would be much safer if the only people that had guns are the cops, military and crooks - that's what CNN says

FNN sees no difference between the three groups.

[boxcar]

None of this followed from lambo's original Vermont post and my follow-up.

The whole original point was about deterrence. Lambo's theory was that people in Vermont are deterred from going on shooting sprees because, apparently, Vermont is a well-armed state.

Texas is also considered another well-armed state...whether it's 11th on the list of 50 or wherever it lies, popular culture has most people believing people in Texas are well armed - whether true or not, it should be an equal deterrent if Lambo's theory holds true.

Didn't stop the church shooter from following through with his plan.

That is the one and only point I was discussing.

But pointing to anecdotal evidence in one or two states, which by definition would be isolated from the much larger context of the full story of all 50 states, really doesn't prove anything. We'd have to examine the data for all 50 states in order to see which states with what kind of gun laws fare better or worse in gun-related violence.

While Florida ranks ahead of Texas in terms of more liberal gun laws, nonetheless violent crimes appear to be on the increase in both Orlando and Tampa. But again, what does this prove unless studied and evaluated in the context of more data?

And what do we know about the church shooter in Texas? What was his motive? Was he a member of the church or former member? Or did he know someone who knew quite a bit about the church's beliefs? Maybe he has a pretty good idea no one inside would be armed. If this were the case, this wouldn't this actually have the opposite effect of deterrence?

[boxcar]

In Texas we have open carry, in Florida you have this

"Once again Florida Carry, Inc. has demonstrated a lack of concern for Concealed Weapons and Firearms License holders. License holders continue to be abused by law enforcement, prosecutors and the courts. When firearms, that are being lawfully carried concealed, accidentally become exposed to the sight of another person, license holders are being arrested for violating the open carry ban."

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/12/robert-farago/nras-marion-hammer-hammers-florida-carry/

I still hold hope out for Swampland, although I see nothing positive happening with the RINO we currently have for a governor.

[lamboguy]

Boxcar just made the point. when you walk into a church in Texas you know there are no guns, when you go to a school in Vermont you know there are people with plenty of arms there to greet you if you want to hurt their kids. it has nothing to do with any type of gun laws.

there are plenty of legitimate people that don't have gun licenses that have guns and are prepared. when you get to that stage laws mean less than nothing.

[PaceAdvantage]

Boxcar just made the point. when you walk into a church in Texas you know there are no guns, when you go to a school in Vermont you know there are people with plenty of arms there to greet you if you want to hurt their kids. it has nothing to do with any type of gun laws.

there are plenty of legitimate people that don't have gun licenses that have guns and are prepared. when you get to that stage laws mean less than nothing.Why would anyone think, walking into a CHURCH in TEXAS, there wouldn't be someone wearing a gun on their person?

WHY WOULD ANYONE THINK THAT?

I would think there would be a GOOD chance of someone in that church having a gun.

In 2015 TEXAS allowed people to OPEN CARRY their firearms...they are rather lax with their restrictions on guns...

I don't know why anyone would think there is no chance anyone in that church in Texas was armed.

[JustRalph]

In Texas....just assume there is a gun everywhere you go. You won’t be wrong often......

[woodtoo]

Broward Coward County. Three more Broward sheriffs refused to enter the school and engage the shooter even after neighboring Coral Springs police arrived and entered.SMH

[Show Me the Wire]

Broward Coward County. Three more Broward sheriffs refused to enter the school and engage the shooter even after neighboring Coral Springs police arrived and entered.SMH

To paraphrase Peggy Noonan, Americans buy guns to protect themselves, because they cannot depend on the authorities to protect them.

[boxcar]

Why would anyone think, walking into a CHURCH in TEXAS, there wouldn't be someone wearing a gun on their person?

WHY WOULD ANYONE THINK THAT?

I would think there would be a GOOD chance of someone in that church having a gun.

In 2015 TEXAS allowed people to OPEN CARRY their firearms...they are rather lax with their restrictions on guns...

I don't know why anyone would think there is no chance anyone in that church in Texas was armed.

You are aware that many Christians (assuming this was a Christian church) believe in pacifism, don't you? You know...those would be the Christians (and even many non-Christians) who would take, as one example, a text like Mat 5:39 literally.

Again, does anyone know what the shooter knew about his particular church or what his motive was for shooting all those people?

[mrhorseplayer]

You are aware that many Christians (assuming this was a Christian church) believe in pacifism, don't you? You know...those would be the Christians (and even many non-Christians) who would take, as one example, a text like Mat 5:39 literally.

Again, does anyone know what the shooter knew about his particular church or what his motive was for shooting all those people?


No however the neighbor knew he had to take the shooter out and did.

[fast4522]

There are always those who make things harder than things have to be. I do not see how hard it would be to to have a room with several having feeds from cameras across a school campus. I have no idea if this school did or did not or why they paid someone $75K to do nothing. This morning I heard this fellow was all to happy to have pictures of himself and Bernie Sanders and also Hillary Clinton. Why on Gods green earth would we want another union hack to make people proud like this fool did.

[Show Me the Wire]

Broward Coward County. Three more Broward sheriffs refused to enter the school and engage the shooter even after neighboring Coral Springs police arrived and entered.SMH

Becuase they don't have to. Supreme Court declared that the Constitution does not impose a duty on the state and local governments to protect the citizens from criminal harm. DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services

[boxcar]

Broward Coward County. Three more Broward sheriffs refused to enter the school and engage the shooter even after neighboring Coral Springs police arrived and entered.SMH

And yet....sheriffs and their deputies all over this nation have zero problem entering, patrolling and enforcing the law in any number of different kinds of public venues, e.g. sporting events, parades, political rallies, protests, demonstrations, airports, bus terminals, etc., etc., etc. None of these public venues are "gun-free" zones off limits to police. So...the question begging to be asked is: Why did the police hesitate or refuse to enter a public school when a crime is in progress or they are justified in believing that one could take place?

And the second question begging to be asked is: Since police are in virtually all public venues, why not put them in public schools? We have special police patrolling the NYC Transit Authority, so why not have a public school police force?

Another question to be asked: Is why was the cop at Parkland not brought up on charges instead of being allowed to ever-so-quietly and surreptitiously-like allowed to retire and collect his pensions after he chose to not enter the school, even though he knew a crime was in progress? How is it that this guy escapes virtually unscathed by everyone after his cowardly action?

[Show Me the Wire]

.......

Another question to be asked: Is why was the cop at Parkland not brought up on charges instead of being allowed to ever-so-quietly and surreptitiously-like allowed to retire and collect his pensions after he chose to not enter the school, even though he knew a crime was in progress? How is it that this guy escapes virtually unscathed by everyone after his cowardly action?

See above post #430. The officer had no duty to protect the unarmed students.

[boxcar]

Becuase they don't have to. Supreme Court declared that the Constitution does not impose a duty on the state and local governments to protect the citizens from criminal harm. DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services


If this is indeed true, then this decision strongly supports the argument for the need for private citizens to protect themselves. If state and local governments abdicate their sworn duty "to protect and to serve", then what other recourse if left to law-abiding citizens?

[Show Me the Wire]

If this is indeed true, then this decision strongly supports the argument for the need for private citizens to protect themselves. If state and local governments abdicate their sworn duty "to protect and to serve", then what other recourse if left to law-abiding citizens?

Of course it is true. It is the well settled law of the land.

[thaskalos]

Becuase they don't have to. Supreme Court declared that the Constitution does not impose a duty on the state and local governments to protect the citizens from criminal harm. DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services


Why do the state and local government officers carry guns then? Strictly for their OWN protection? Don't the police department vehicles have a "We Protect and Serve" sticker on them?

[Show Me the Wire]

Why do the state and local government officers carry guns then? Strictly for their OWN protection? Don't the police department vehicles have a "We Protect and Serve" sticker on them?

Ask the Courts, I am just the messenger.

Excerpt of majority opinion:

The Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment provides that "[n]o State shall . . . deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." Petitioners [p195] contend that the State [n1] deprived Joshua of his liberty interest in "free[dom] from . . . unjustified intrusions on personal security," see Ingraham v. Wright, 430 U.S. 651, 673 (1977), by failing to provide him with adequate protection against his father's violence. The claim is one invoking the substantive, rather than the procedural, component of the Due Process Clause; petitioners do not claim that the State denied Joshua protection without according him appropriate procedural safeguards, see Morrissey v. Brewer, 408 U.S. 471, 481 (1972), but that it was categorically obligated to protect him in these circumstances, see Youngberg v. Romeo, 457 U.S. 307, 309 (1982). [n2]

But nothing in the language of the Due Process Clause itself requires the State to protect the life, liberty, and property of its citizens against invasion by private actors. The Clause is phrased as a limitation on the State's power to act, not as a guarantee of certain minimal levels of safety and security. It forbids the State itself to deprive individuals of life, liberty, or property without "due process of law," but its language cannot fairly be extended to impose an affirmative obligation on the State to ensure that those interests do not come to harm through other means. Nor does history support such an expansive reading of the constitutional text.[emphasis added]

The State has no affirmative obligation to protect from harm.

[boxcar]

Of course it is true. It is the well settled law of the land.

A total abomination of a decision! That decision is still controversial to this day. And this was Blackmun's scathing dissent:

Blackmun's dissent is famous due to its fourth paragraph which is as follows:

Poor Joshua! Victim of repeated attacks by an irresponsible, bullying, cowardly, and intemperate father, and abandoned by respondents who placed him in a dangerous predicament and who knew or learned what was going on, and yet did essentially nothing except, as the Court revealingly observes, ante, at 193, "dutifully recorded these incidents in [their] files." It is a sad commentary upon American life, and constitutional principles - so full of late of patriotic fervor and proud proclamations about "liberty and justice for all" - that this child, Joshua DeShaney, now is assigned to live out the remainder of his life profoundly retarded. Joshua and his mother, as petitioners here, deserve - but now are denied by this Court - the opportunity to have the facts of their case considered in the light of the constitutional protection that 42 U.S.C. 1983 is meant to provide.[7]

The above taken from Wikipedia.

Thanks for posting that info, by the way. I was not aware of that abominable decision -- decision that is right down there in the gutter with Roe v. Wade.

[Clocker]

Another question to be asked: Is why was the cop at Parkland not brought up on charges instead of being allowed to ever-so-quietly and surreptitiously-like allowed to retire and collect his pensions after he chose to not enter the school, even though he knew a crime was in progress?

What law did he break? What rules or commands did he disobey? I don't see that there is anything they could do to him once he resigned.

[boxcar]

What law did he break? What rules or commands did he disobey? I don't see that there is anything they could do to him once he resigned.

They probably could have done something which is why he beat them to the punch. He probably resigned the same day it happened.

But again...since this is the case and the cops are not obligated to protect the citizens, then this argues very strongly for an armed citizenry, i.e. "militia"!

This country is more screwed up than even I imagined. And mostly everyone here knows how cynical I am of human nature.

[boxcar]

Clocker, this excerpt from Breitbart on the play-it-safe deputy:

On February 22 Breitbart News reported that one deputy resigned after it was learned that he was on scene but failed to control Nikolas Cruz. Sheriff Israel told ABC 13 that video shows the deputy, Scott Peterson, “arrive at the west side of Building 12” and “take a position” outside the school — but never go inside. The sheriff’s office moved to suspend Peterson, who resigned before the suspension could take place.

I'm thinking that if they had suspended him that might have jeopardized his pension. He certainly quit in a hurry because he knew what was coming. And all this raises other questions: If this deputy was in the right -- was in full compliance with the law, why quit so fast and why would the Sheriff want to suspend him? Suspend him for what? Not killing someone?

[fast4522]

The founding fathers knew that ultimately the individual is responsible for their own personal safety. You would be hard pressed to find a sworn person of any law organization in this country to tell you different in any decade of the last ten. The reason for such honesty other than the truth is the fact that all of them have some intention of maybe doing something different.

[Show Me the Wire]

The founding fathers knew that ultimately the individual is responsible for their own personal safety. You would be hard pressed to find a sworn person of any law organization in this country to tell you different in any decade of the last ten. The reason for such honesty other than the truth is the fact that all of them have some intention of maybe doing something different.


Correct. The government cannot protect everyone from every crime. The problem is with our socialist politicians they fully well know the government is under no affirmative duty to protect an individual and logistically cannot protect everyone, yet they limit the indivduals ability to defend themselves. The ultimate responsibility to defend lies with the individual and the government acts like it doesn't.

[jocko699]

Correct. The government cannot protect everyone from every crime. The problem is with our socialist politicians they fully well know the government is under no affirmative duty to protect an individual and logistically cannot protect everyone, yet they limit the indivduals ability to defend themselves. The ultimate responsibility to defend lies with the individual and the government acts like it doesn't.

But, but government is supposed to take care of us at every turn:rolleyes:

[fast4522]

But, but government is supposed to take care of us at every turn:rolleyes:

False:lol: At every turn its intention has been to usurp control of we the people and replace it with self serving pukes of the like that wanted an insurance policy against Donald J. Trump.

[Clocker]

I'm thinking that if they had suspended him that might have jeopardized his pension. He certainly quit in a hurry because he knew what was coming. And all this raises other questions: If this deputy was in the right -- was in full compliance with the law, why quit so fast and why would the Sheriff want to suspend him? Suspend him for what? Not killing someone?

His pension was vested, so it is highly doubtful anything could be done there. If he was ordered to enter the building and refused, there might be a case for internal discipline. But with no supervision on site, tough to prove that he was not acting prudently, especially if he had a union defending him at a hearing. And even more so in retrospect when 4 of his fellow officers took cover behind cars rather than go inside. They might be facing some disciplinary action.

Looks to me like he had nothing to gain but grief if he stayed, and bailing out was the smart thing for him just to get away from it all.

[lamboguy]

its like everything else these days, most cops are in business for themselves. its all about the handouts they get and the huge paychecks they receive on friday.

for the better part of my youth, i was a ticket scalper on the streets. the way the game worked is that you are either with the law or against them. if you are with them the cops would arrest the scalpers that didn't pay off, take their tickets away from them, then give the scalpers that were with the police those tickets to sell and you had to split the money with the cop. there could be some madman running around with a machine gun in some other part of town, but if they were working the streets arresting scalpers the central office couldn't find that cop with a search warrant.

i grew up in one of the wealthiest towns in America at the time, the people that lived there were the Hershey's, Dupont's, Rockefella's and everyone else that was loaded. (my little family rented an apartment and we were as broke as anyone could be). there was an entrance to the town that black people coming from what was called a "ghetto" would enter the town, some went to the doctors and hospitals. the police would hang out in that spot and tail all those people. pull them over and sometimes plant fake evidence and arrest those people to scare them away from entering the town. i believe its somewhat the same today and that police force is very highly national rated.

this is just or was the way THE WORLD TURNED. and you had to get used to it because you weren't changing anything. the cops in Broward that turned their backs is only par for the course. its better that you live your life not needing the assistance of the government, the cops, the lawyers and the doctors. because if you do, you are in a heap of trouble.

[Nutz and Boltz]

Looks to me like he had nothing to gain but grief if he stayed, and bailing out was the smart thing for him just to get away from it all.

If a trained law enforcement officer would react that way, how might a teacher, even with weapon training, react in the same situation?
I doubt many teachers would opt in, anyway. Don't forget, as some say here, they most likely went to colleges where they were taught by liberal leaning professors so would probably be gun control advocates anyway. Just sayin'.

[Nutz and Boltz]

its like everything else these days, most cops are in business for themselves. its all about the handouts they get and the huge paychecks they receive on friday.



this is just or was the way THE WORLD TURNED. and you had to get used to it because you weren't changing anything. the cops in Broward that turned their backs is only par for the course. its better that you live your life not needing the assistance of the government, the cops, the lawyers and the doctors. because if you do, you are in a heap of trouble.

That's the way it is. Good post. I respect the "law" one-hundred percent, but as for "law enforcement officers" in general, not so much. I feel for the young officers who join the force to make a difference, and then find out in time that there is much more to being a "cop".

[Tom]

Becuase they don't have to. Supreme Court declared that the Constitution does not impose a duty on the state and local governments to protect the citizens from criminal harm. DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services


The flip side of that coin is that the state and local governments do have to provide outright cowards jobs - fire them all and be done with them.

And mark ther addresses in police files as - DO NOT respond.

Useless bastards. Hope the townsfolk take out vengeance on them. The deserve whatever hell they get.

[JustRalph]

its like everything else these days, most cops are in business for themselves. its all about the handouts they get and the huge paychecks they receive on friday.

for the better part of my youth, i was a ticket scalper on the streets. the way the game worked is that you are either with the law or against them. if you are with them the cops would arrest the scalpers that didn't pay off, take their tickets away from them, then give the scalpers that were with the police those tickets to sell and you had to split the money with the cop. there could be some madman running around with a machine gun in some other part of town, but if they were working the streets arresting scalpers the central office couldn't find that cop with a search warrant.

i grew up in one of the wealthiest towns in America at the time, the people that lived there were the Hershey's, Dupont's, Rockefella's and everyone else that was loaded. (my little family rented an apartment and we were as broke as anyone could be). there was an entrance to the town that black people coming from what was called a "ghetto" would enter the town, some went to the doctors and hospitals. the police would hang out in that spot and tail all those people. pull them over and sometimes plant fake evidence and arrest those people to scare them away from entering the town. i believe its somewhat the same today and that police force is very highly national rated.

this is just or was the way THE WORLD TURNED. and you had to get used to it because you weren't changing anything. the cops in Broward that turned their backs is only par for the course. its better that you live your life not needing the assistance of the government, the cops, the lawyers and the doctors. because if you do, you are in a heap of trouble.

How many people post on this account?

Just for the record. What you describe is a big city problem. Chicago, NY and Baltimore, New Orleans etc. the majority of Police Depts in other states, especially the Midwest, are free of corruption. When I worked in SoCal and Ohio the closest extra benefit I ever got was a free Big Mac or a 50% discount at the donut shop. In 15 yrs I was offered cash only a few times and both times those were people from Chicago. They wanted to pay their traffic ticket “up front” they said.

I was doing a telephone interview in the mid 80’s with the New Orleans Police Dept when the recruiter told me I would make 17k while in the Academy and a little over 20k after graduation. I told him the interview was over. He told me I had to understand that I would make another 20k on the street and maybe more, depending on where I was posted. He was serious, but told me that was “off the record” I passed on the 2nd interview

[boxcar]

But, but government is supposed to take care of us at every turn:rolleyes:

Only if you're a Democrat.

[JustRalph]

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/nation-world/police-sources-disagreement-to-confront-active-parkland-gunman

This is starting to look real bad.......

When do they start calling for the Sheriff and police Chief to resign?

[boxcar]

His pension was vested, so it is highly doubtful anything could be done there. If he was ordered to enter the building and refused, there might be a case for internal discipline. But with no supervision on site, tough to prove that he was not acting prudently, especially if he had a union defending him at a hearing. And even more so in retrospect when 4 of his fellow officers took cover behind cars rather than go inside. They might be facing some disciplinary action.

Looks to me like he had nothing to gain but grief if he stayed, and bailing out was the smart thing for him just to get away from it all.

But why would the four face charges when they were acting in compliance with that Supreme Court decision ShowMe shared with us?

[Tom]

Hats off to Coral Springs, where obviously, the people are of much higher character and the man have balls.

Who these these chicken-shit excuses of cops?

[boxcar]

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/nation-world/police-sources-disagreement-to-confront-active-parkland-gunman

This is starting to look real bad.......

When do they start calling for the Sheriff and police Chief to resign?

As most of us know Broward County is a liberal bastion. One is led to wonder if the Broward County Sheriff's department received orders to stand down -- and just let the tragic drama unfold until the shooter ran out of ammo, offed himself or surrendered.

[barahona44]

Hats off to Coral Springs, where obviously, the people are of much higher character and the man have balls.

Who these these chicken-shit excuses of cops?
A Coral Springs firefighter (Ralph's link) without a gun or a vest went into the building and rendered first aid.Some people just show guts.

Parkland doesn't have its own full service police force per se, back in 2004 they instead "merged" it with the Broward County sheriff's department, contracting out the heavy lifting law enforcement responsibilities to the county. (Parkland's police force is for nonemergency duties;traffic and parking violations, code enforcement, etc.). My point is maybe the deputies don't feel the same connection to a certain community that they might if they worked for it directly.Peterson lives in Boynton Beach, (he has police guarding his home) which according to Google Maps is 26 miles from Parkland.Without knowing how the county assigns deputies, maybe he could devolp an "I just work here" attitude.Of course, the Coral Springs P.D. doesn't work for the town of Parkland either and that didn't stop them from entering the school..
.

[RunForTheRoses]

http://abc6onyourside.com/news/nation-world/police-sources-disagreement-to-confront-active-parkland-gunman

This is starting to look real bad.......

When do they start calling for the Sheriff and police Chief to resign?

https://twitter.com/NRA/status/967170545228898305



https://www.mediaite.com/online/resignsheriffisrael-dominates-twitter-after-damning-parkland-reports-surface/

[Clocker]

There are allegations that sheriffs department in Florida, including Broward and Miami-Dade, essentially stopped arresting students for crimes some years ago. This lowered the juvenile delinquent rates, and the improved statistics got them a lot of state and federal money.

That may explain why 39 visits by deputies to the shooter's house resulted in no arrest.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html

[RunForTheRoses]

https://twitter.com/thedweck/status/966425285552889856

Jesse Dreck could have added Community Organizer.

[RunForTheRoses]

Kids, always have been a problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wFVpKYNvRU

[Clocker]

Jesse Dreck could have added Community Organizer.

Looks like the sheriff had a lot of community organizers on the payroll. But what else would you expect from a Democrat?

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel—the man whose agency failed to prevent the Parkland massacre despite having received a tip last November that Nikolas Cruz was plotting a mass shooting—has been accused of public corruption.

Two years ago, the Sun Sentinel reported that Israel was rewarding top political supporters by giving them and their family members cushy jobs doing public relations and community outreach for the Broward County Sheriff's Office. One such position, outreach manager, paid out a salary of $78,489. The person who got that job was the husband of Israel's campaign manager.

Israel had been a Republican but ran for office as a Democrat. He was first elected sheriff in 2012, then re-elected in 2016.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-accu

[Tom]

Why would a sane person vote for a democrat for a police office?????

That's like asking Joey Chestnut to watch your Hot Dog Cart while you run to the store!

[boxcar]

There are allegations that sheriffs department in Florida, including Broward and Miami-Dade, essentially stopped arresting students for crimes some years ago. This lowered the juvenile delinquent rates, and the improved statistics got them a lot of state and federal money.

That may explain why 39 visits by deputies to the shooter's house resulted in no arrest.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html

So it was for the love of the money for which all those youngsters died? What a comforting, consoling message for all the survivors, family members and all the other kids alike.

You see...the really, really huge question that is just screaming out and begging to be asked is this one: Why is virtually all this gun violence restricted to our public schools?. But this kind of question will never be asked -- it won't even enter the minds of most people. This kind of deep, penetrating, soul-searching question is analogous to asking, "Why are our prisons filled with an inordinate number of minorities?" When these kinds of questions are asked, they lead to a host of secondary questions or subsets of questions. And when we start drilling down this deep, the answers become excruciatingly painful. We start to find out things about how the federal government uses money to manipulate and control states, counties, municipalities and public school systems, for starters. But this is just the beginning of woes.

Then we find out things like how this country has a legal drug culture that is apparently blessed by all levels of government. One gent on this thread recently mentioned two very prominent and popular drugs that our youth are on.

Then we start to learn about the learning culture in our public schools. What kids are taught and what is altogether taboo to teach. One could easily start to contrast public school curricular with private school's curricular. Wow...could these differences possibly have anything to do why virtually all this violence has been restricted to public schools? Assuredly, neither the unions or most teachers would not want to go here!

And then we cannot ignore the home environment where these children are raised and taught....well, taught what exactly? The secular humanistic values that were also rammed down the throats of the kids' parents, perhaps? These are the values that were built upon the ever-moving, sifting sands of moral relativism. Not a real solid foundation -- but hey, we gotta move with the flow to make "progress", right?

But fear not, we'll never drill down to anywhere near this depth. Instead, we'll keep it simple, [for the] stupid. We'll make amoral, inanimate guns the scapegoat. Guns are the real villains in this society. But the leftists are shrewd and wily; they know they have to put a real face on those guns. Enter scapegoat Number Two: The NRA. It's much easier and so less painful to just apply a few band aids to those raw, festering, puss-filled, infected wounds that are slowly killing the moral sensibilities our society.

The really tough question of all questions, therefore, will never be asked. Everyone can relax and continue in the deception.

[Clocker]

You see...the really, really huge question that is just screaming out and begging to be asked is this one: Why is virtually all this gun violence restricted to our public schools?.

I asked this question a while back and was largely ignored.

My response is simple: discipline, both in the private school and in the home. The kids are brought up right.

[boxcar]

Looks like the sheriff had a lot of community organizers on the payroll. But what else would you expect from a Democrat?

https://reason.com/blog/2018/02/23/broward-county-sheriff-scott-israel-accu

Hmm...time to connect some dots. Democrat + community organizers + big bucks to cronies + sheriff's lecture to NRA = golden opportunity for a crisis too good to squander by sending in deputies to stop the mayhem and bloodshed.

And we all know one of the golden rules of socialism, right? The sacrifice of a few is always acceptable for the benefit of the many. This kind of mentality demands that the good of the collective always outweighs any individual(s) considerations. So what several kids are killed? Gotta look at the really big picture and see how their [sacrificial] death is going to benefit society on the long run.

Would not surprise me at all if this sheriff gave the order to his deputies to stand down and let it all play out.

[lamboguy]

How many people post on this account?

Just for the record. What you describe is a big city problem. Chicago, NY and Baltimore, New Orleans etc. the majority of Police Depts in other states, especially the Midwest, are free of corruption. When I worked in SoCal and Ohio the closest extra benefit I ever got was a free Big Mac or a 50% discount at the donut shop. In 15 yrs I was offered cash only a few times and both times those were people from Chicago. They wanted to pay their traffic ticket “up front” they said.

I was doing a telephone interview in the mid 80’s with the New Orleans Police Dept when the recruiter told me I would make 17k while in the Academy and a little over 20k after graduation. I told him the interview was over. He told me I had to understand that I would make another 20k on the street and maybe more, depending on where I was posted. He was serious, but told me that was “off the record” I passed on the 2nd interviewwake up Ralph! cops are making $250,000 a year with the right detail work. guys i grew up with all retired early as millionaires.

for the record the New York police force is excellent and for the most part so isn't Boston these days. but it took all the money to get them to the top. the people that run those cities pay the cops big money now and don't put up with all the prior bull shit.

[boxcar]

I asked this question a while back and was largely ignored.

My response is simple: discipline, both in the private school and in the home. The kids are brought up right.

Kudos to you! I didn't see it, but it shows that you're thinking through things.

But I do think the solution is much more complex than just discipline. Again, this is the kind of question that spawns a large number of secondary questions, causing us to drill deep down -- to the soul-searching of this society, to family to ourselves.

[lamboguy]

Hats off to Coral Springs, where obviously, the people are of much higher character and the man have balls.

Who these these chicken-shit excuses of cops?i don't understand, the mayor of Coral Springs is a lifetime Democrat and he sent the help.

[boxcar]

i don't understand, the mayor of Coral Springs is a lifetime Democrat and he sent the help.

Maybe he's a Blue Dog Dem. Very different from the extremists of today. :coffee:

[bigjohna]

Iam tired of left and right debate I dont mean to stir the pot the metal health issue has be look at Iam for gun rights but having said that ibelive in strong backgrould checks

[Inner Dirt]

Iam tired of left and right debate I dont mean to stir the pot the metal health issue has be look at Iam for gun rights but having said that ibelive in strong backgrould checks

Are you drunk, high or illiterate?

[RunForTheRoses]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/02/23/police-student-shotgun-threatens-east-high/368691002/

[boxcar]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2018/02/23/police-student-shotgun-threatens-east-high/368691002/

No biggie. This gal just has a little assimilation issue. The Dems will you tell you they feel as though they have won the lottery when she came here.

[steveb]

Maybe he's a Blue Dog Dem. Very different from the extremists of today. :coffee:

if you want to see an extremist go find a mirror.

[boxcar]

if you want to see an extremist go find a mirror.

What else is new? Everyone has been telling forever me how extremely handsome I am. :coffee:

[Tom]

DACA at work.
Deport her ass - no need to waste time on a trial - take out the trash.

[steveb]

Are you drunk, high or illiterate?

i was thinking of asking if you were either/both of the first two mentioned above when i read this gem from you.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2278924#post2278924

i quickly called my wife to read it, and she was soon having the same fits of laughter as i was!

[thaskalos]

i was thinking of asking if you were either/both of the first two mentioned above when i read this gem from you.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2278924#post2278924

i quickly called my wife to read it, and she was soon having the same fits of laughter as i was!

Come on...you DO use sarcasm in Australia, right? :)

[steveb]

Come on...you DO use sarcasm in Australia, right? :)

yes and probably much better at it too.

[MONEY]

i was thinking of asking if you were either/both of the first two mentioned above when i read this gem from you.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2278924#post2278924

i quickly called my wife to read it, and she was soon having the same fits of laughter as i was!
That post was a funny and sarcastic.

You should have laughed.

[steveb]

That post was a funny and sarcastic.

You should have laughed.

i guess that's why it received no responses when it was made.
do you reckon everybody was too busy with their mirth fits to say something?

[MONEY]

i guess that's why it received no responses when it was made.
do you reckon everybody was too busy with their mirth fits to say something?
It was on a Sunday evening, I was out with the family as usual.
Thanks for posting the link, without your help I would have never seen the post.

[steveb]

It was on a Sunday evening, I was out with the family as usual.
Thanks for posting the link, without your help I would have never seen the post.

and funny it was.
very much doubt he was trying to be sarcastic.
i have read too many others from that poster to think otherwise.

[Clocker]

very much doubt he was trying to be sarcastic.

Are you trying to be sarcastic? :rolleyes:

[PaceAdvantage]

and funny it was.
very much doubt he was trying to be sarcastic.
i have read too many others from that poster to think otherwise.Wow.

[steveb]

Wow.

thanks.

i get the same from reading yours too very very often.

[thaskalos]

Are you trying to be sarcastic? :rolleyes:

Doubtful. I've read enough of his posts to know that sarcasm isn't a part of his repertoire. :)

[PaceAdvantage]

thanks.

i get the same from reading yours too very very often.Oh, I doubt that.

[Clocker]

Doubtful. I've read enough of his posts to know that sarcasm isn't a part of his repertoire. :)

I was being sarcastic. ;)

[steveb]

Doubtful. I've read enough of his posts to know that sarcasm isn't a part of his repertoire. :)

and here was me thinking that you were logically very fluent!
one of the better ones on this board in that regard.

[PaceAdvantage]

and here was me thinking that you were logically very fluent!
one of the better ones on this board in that regard.You have a lot of opinions about a lot of different people and aspects of this board.

That's what I like to see. An active participant! :ThmbUp:

[steveb]

You have a lot of opinions about a lot of different people and aspects of this board.

That's what I like to see. An active participant! :ThmbUp:

i certainly do, but most of them are best kept to myself.
racing wise it's very good.
not so good and balanced here though
too many wingnuts is my opinion.
whoops should have kept that to myself!

[thaskalos]

and here was me thinking that you were logically very fluent!
one of the better ones on this board in that regard.

Come on, I was only kidding...as my smiley face clearly indicated. :)

[Clocker]

To paraphrase Peggy Noonan, Americans buy guns to protect themselves, because they cannot depend on the authorities to protect them.

When every second counts, the police are only minutes away.

Maybe. :rolleyes:

[thaskalos]

When every second counts, the police are only minutes away.

Maybe. :rolleyes:

And when they get there...they wait outside until the shooting stops. :ThmbUp:

[Clocker]

And when they get there...they wait outside until the shooting stops. :ThmbUp:

Which makes the argument for civilians arming themselves for self-defense all that much stronger.

[thaskalos]

Which makes the argument for civilians arming themselves for self-defense all that much stronger.

Of course the civilians should arm themselves. WHO cares about us more than WE do?

[Clocker]

Some folks still don't get it. Like John Harwood of CNBC.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/868178337859911680/GJ8zcy-z_bigger.jpg John Harwood ✔ @JohnJHarwood (https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood)
so it turns out a good guy with a gun was there, with sheriff’s dept training no teacher will ever have, and he didn’t stop the bad guy with a gun
4:34 PM - Feb 22, 2018

No, there wasn't a good guy with a gun there, only an illusion of one.

That's why it is better to not rely on the promises of others, and take responsibility for yourself.

[JustRalph]

John Harwood should have his ass kicked for being that snarky

[chadk66]

Some folks still don't get it. Like John Harwood of CNBC.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/868178337859911680/GJ8zcy-z_bigger.jpg John Harwood ✔ @JohnJHarwood (https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood)
so it turns out a good guy with a gun was there, with sheriff’s dept training no teacher will ever have, and he didn’t stop the bad guy with a gun
4:34 PM - Feb 22, 2018 (https://twitter.com/JohnJHarwood/status/966818504803586054)

No, there wasn't a good guy with a gun there, only an illusion of one.

That's why it is better to not rely on the promises of others, and take responsibility for yourself.yea pussies with guns showed up.