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Poindexter
01-30-2018, 03:36 PM
The Rainbow Six giveaway on Sunday has me thinking out loud.

15 million was bet for a net +6% positive expectation pool. Truth be told I dont think most playing even cared whether the pool was +6% or -6%(nor did they know in advance what it would be). The point is that the 4 million dollars of free money was up or grabs and almost nobody cared that the takeout would eliminate 3 million of it.

Now imagine if every Saturday there was a 5% takeout 20 cent pick six (national pick 6), where you take the 6 of the best (which factors in competitiveness-no bs fields of 6 or less) stakes races from across the country that day. Give out free past performances for those 6 races online. If you could get the public to bet 5 or 10 million on that it would be an incredible betting opportunity on a weekly basis, not a whole lot different than what the Rainbow 6 provided. Also unlike the Rainbow six where you had a bunch of crap races, you can actually showcase racing's best. Tvg and the others can do complete sements on these races each week.

In substance there is not a huge difference between the two, in fact i would argue that the national pick six would be a far superior and appealing bet with -5% on six good stakes races vs +6% on the crap card Gulfstream had on Sunday. Also the promotion for the sport would be huge if they could get this bet to really take off.

It has to be 20 cent because you want it as inclusive as possible.



question 1) would racing even try it? It is more a promotion to help build the sport rather than a money making opportunity for racing.

question 2) if they did how can they sell it? When you throw up the word carryover people get it, but when you throw up the word low takeout, I don't think they get it.

Question 3) How enthused would you a horseplayer be to attack this bet each week? Would this be more or less appealing to you than Sunday's Rainbow 6 and why?

Teach
01-30-2018, 03:42 PM
Poindexter -

I just read your post. I like it. I think it has a lot of merit.

GMB@BP
01-30-2018, 03:55 PM
I think a big reason why the pool was so large was it was 0.20 cents per combo, it let in a lot more mid level players.

MonmouthParkJoe
01-30-2018, 04:34 PM
There are cross country pick 4s now combining stakes races that dont exactly handle a ton, but a cross country 20 cent pick 6 could be interesting.

1-I would think anything is possible and could happen, once you determine who the host of the wager will be or some hybrid arrangement.
2-I think you have to sell not just the low takeout, but the idea of is an all stakes wager. How many times do you look at a pick N sequence and see some horrible maiden claimer stuck in the middle? This would eliminate that.
3-This is the biggest hurdle. Some players simply follow one or two tracks total. For example, if you tossed a delta downs or Canterbury stakes race in the sequence, I would pass.

On the flip side, it would be great exposure for a smaller track to be included in the lineup and get some eyes on their product.

While it most likely will never happen, seed a pool with the outs or breakage, it is really horseplayers money to begin with. I know every state is different, but imagine a super pool say once a month, or two times a year, whatever time frame you want. Frame it in a way to give back to the players, and in turn get the takeout on the new money. :cool:

Redboard
01-30-2018, 08:12 PM
I like your idea, however I would lower it to a 10 cent bet, which is what it was originally at GP when it first started.

Will never happen though. Every track would have their attorneys that would screw everything up.

We need a governing national body with a real commissioner, like every other major sport has, to get something like this to happen.

jay68802
01-30-2018, 08:41 PM
Like the idea. That said I could see where Both Santa Anita and Gulfstream drag their post times out so that the 3rd and 4th leg are run at exactly the same time as the 5th leg and then Santa Anita has a photo finish and can't determine the winner until after the last leg is run.

davew
01-30-2018, 09:14 PM
Stronach tracks had the Magna 5 for $1 and did not last.

http://www.drf.com/news/magna-5-wager-return-few-tweaks

Tom
01-30-2018, 09:42 PM
I can see it now - legs 2,3,and 4 all go off at the same time.
That obstacle, so far has proven insurmountable to the racing game. I am not aware of anything happening to bring more competence to the industry - did I miss something?

jay68802
01-30-2018, 09:49 PM
I can see it now - legs 2,3,and 4 all go off at the same time.
That obstacle, so far has proven insurmountable to the racing game. I am not aware of anything happening to bring more competence to the industry - did I miss something?

New York racing secretary has been let go, it's all good now.:ThmbUp::)

HPFridays
01-30-2018, 11:08 PM
I can see it now - legs 2,3,and 4 all go off at the same time.
That obstacle, so far has proven insurmountable to the racing game. I am not aware of anything happening to bring more competence to the industry - did I miss something?

Tom,

You're right as usual.

Poindexter,

Love the idea of a national Pick 6. Somehow I imagine bickering between tracks/mgmt. about their % due etc. This idea should've happened years ago and without any push back from tracks. I would think, if advertised properly, the handle would be quite nice. It would all be in the details.

Fager Fan
01-30-2018, 11:15 PM
The idea's been floated before. I don't know why they can't get it off the ground. I wonder if it has to do with each entity having different contracts with ADWs and such.

davew
01-30-2018, 11:27 PM
I can see it now - legs 2,3,and 4 all go off at the same time.
That obstacle, so far has proven insurmountable to the racing game. I am not aware of anything happening to bring more competence to the industry - did I miss something?

why would it matter if ticket was bought before leg 1?

Milkshaker
01-30-2018, 11:28 PM
Anyone recall the National Pick Seven, and later the National Pick Six, from the early 90s? This was just after what (I believe) was the first BC National Pick Seven on the '91 BC races.

Excerpt below from 2/1/92 LA Times...(Note the prescient last line).

To fight back, racing has handed Bork and his committee a mandate to take racing into the 1990s. One of their first ideas is a national Pick Six, weekly betting on six races at different tracks. The races would be televised on a one-hour television program.

Six races in an hour?

"Look at the action out there," Bork said, pointing to the race book, which by piling race on top of race at tracks from Aqueduct to Santa Anita has created a fast-pace horseplaying.

Bork believes that that same type of player won't be overwhelmed by six races within 60 minutes on a Saturday afternoon. The Breeders' Cup introduced a national Pick Seven on its $10-million races at Churchill Downs last November, and the handle was $8.5 million.

One of the holes in Bork's idea is the potential lack of full fields. Phil Dunn, the New York racing executive, picked up an overnight entry sheet from his Aqueduct track here the other day, and noted that only six horses were running in the stake.

"Look at that," Dunn said. "That's the future of racing, I'm afraid."

horses4courses
01-31-2018, 01:12 AM
2 legs in each time zone. First post is a constant.
First leg kicks off in either NY, or FL, at 5pm ET (4pm in winter)
Try to run all the legs within an hour.

ultracapper
01-31-2018, 05:54 PM
Every other week. Give players time to lick their wounds and jump back in. Tracks could reschedule stake races in order to make sure there are plenty of good stake races running each Saturday the bet is on. It would be nice to see the Longacres Mile be a leg in a bet like that. Give tracks like Emerald Downs a day in the sun.