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elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 08:18 PM
Breitbarts (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/25/white-house-proposal-extends-amnesty-for-1-8-million-illegals-in-exchange-for-25-billion-for-wall-end-of-chain-migration-visa-lottery/) headline not mine...

:lol::lol:

Didn't see that one coming. :rolleyes:

How are you immigration hawks feeling?

fast4522
01-25-2018, 08:32 PM
Real easy, hundreds of things can go wrong, Chuck Schumer is no longer relevant. Poison pills for the bill are handy, don't expect much here.

woodtoo
01-25-2018, 08:48 PM
Breitbarts (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/25/white-house-proposal-extends-amnesty-for-1-8-million-illegals-in-exchange-for-25-billion-for-wall-end-of-chain-migration-visa-lottery/) headline not mine...

:lol::lol:

Didn't see that one coming. :rolleyes:

How are you immigration hawks feeling?

If it ends daca, forever. I like it. Of course I'm only an observer.:)

fast4522
01-25-2018, 08:52 PM
Meanwhile nothing signed and raids by ICE every day, don't count those chickens yet.

elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 08:53 PM
If it ends daca, forever. I like it. Of course I'm only an observer.:)

He's giving Amnesty to all if then 2x over.

schweitz
01-25-2018, 08:54 PM
End chain migration, end lottery, secure borders.
Works for me.

elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 08:55 PM
Meanwhile nothing signed and raids by ICE every day, don't count those chickens yet.

:confused::confused:

THIS. IS. THE. OFFICIAL. WHITE. HOUSE. POSITION.

davew
01-25-2018, 08:56 PM
He's giving Amnesty to all if then 2x over.

but also building wall, ending chain migration and lottery program..

FantasticDan
01-25-2018, 09:01 PM
End chain migration, end lottery, secure borders.
Works for me.

https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/956605748003459077

Clocker
01-25-2018, 09:02 PM
He's giving Amnesty to all if then 2x over.

The Donald is evolving. :popcorn:

RunForTheRoses
01-25-2018, 09:20 PM
https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/956605748003459077

Wrong you dumb dummy:

http://www.vdare.com/posts/chain-migration-legal-immigration-choking-usa

From the article:

If President Donald Trump stops illegal immigration entirely, it won’t make much of a difference in the long run. “Chain migration” continues to drive record immigration into the United States.

[It’s Time To End Chain Migration (https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/time-end-chain-migration/), December 15, 2017]
Naturally, the way the Left is pushing back against the effort to end chain migration is by pathologizing (http://www.vdare.com/posts/as-trump-moves-against-chain-migration-media-matters-tries-to-ban-the-words-chain-migration) the term itself, making debate impossible.
In response to the White House push to end chain migration, immigration expansionists and the media are doing their best to taint the phrase. Google “so-called chain migration” and you get hits from CNN, The Hill, the New York Daily News, Politico, and plenty of others. The New York Times has labeled the term “pejorative,” while the Wall Street Journal reports (in a news story, just to be clear) that “Mr. Trump and his allies have begun derisively using the term ‘chain migration.’” The Associated Press refers to “what critics and the White House refer to as ‘chain migration,’” while the Washington Post writes about “a practice that critics call ‘chain migration.’”
Immigration expansionists who aren’t reporters, on both the right and left, have also weighed in. Technology immigration lobbyist Stuart Anderson, for instance, writes on “the myth of chain migration,” claiming that it’s “a contrived term that seeks to put a negative light on a phenomenon that has taken place throughout the history of the country.” His allies at People for the American Way call it “the anti-immigration movement’s term for policies that allow immediate families to stay together,” while Media Matters derides the term as “a misleading nativist buzzword.”
Of course, until ten minutes ago, “chain migration” was just the regular term for earlier immigrants’ sponsoring future immigrants.
[Just Don’t Call It ‘Chain Migration!’ (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/454863/chain-migration-politically-incorrect-phrase)by Mark Krikorian, National Review, December 21, 2017]

RunForTheRoses
01-25-2018, 09:26 PM
End chain migration, end lottery, secure borders.
Works for me.

The way Elitist ET writes you would think there was no win in this. Not saying letting Daca stay is good (and who knows if the fight is really over) but there may be some realpolitik reasons to compromise. The three things you mention above are nothing to sneeze at.

And imagine what we would have under President H Clinton or Sanders or Rubio, or Son of Boosh the sequel. We've done pretty good under Donald even with his flaws.

Clocker
01-25-2018, 09:29 PM
In response to the White House push to end chain migration, immigration expansionists and the media are doing their best to taint the phrase.


And Joe Biden was once again a man ahead of his time.

"He is going to put y'all back in chains."

elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 09:34 PM
And imagine what we would have under President H Clinton or Sanders or Rubio, or Son of Boosh the sequel. We've done pretty good under Donald even with his flaws.

The gang if eight proposal led by Rubio in 2013 was STRONGER than this and Republicans turned it down because it offered... Amnesty.

Tell me again how this is different than basically the entire GOP field in the primaries?

Doesn't matter his base should be furious with him... Breitbart is... but they won't be.

elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 09:39 PM
The Donald is evolving. :popcorn:

Didn't we see this coming when he extended DACA instead of just killing it last fall? :popcorn:

Tom
01-25-2018, 10:02 PM
The Donald is evolving. :popcorn:

Nothing wrong with that.
0bama never evolved. UpChucky has devolved. Pelosi is arguably not evern of our species.

If someone has been here for years, has a job, is not a criminal and speaks the language, I see no upside in deporting them. We need to close the loophole that let them in, but we have also deal with the reality of it as compassionate human beings. The containment phase of problem solving is as critical as the corrective actions.

We have a lot more natural born citizens here that do not deserve to be here by any stretch of the imagination.

Tom
01-25-2018, 10:10 PM
Didn't we see this coming when he extended DACA instead of just killing it last fall? :popcorn:

Not at all. He did the right way. Put the responsibility where it belongs. That is why it is an issue today - he expected the lazy. lying., Good for nothing bastard in Congress to do their jobs. Ha!
Not one them is worth a good dump.

Stop the lottery, stop the chain migration, which has been a common term for a long time despite the outright lies by the bought and paid for media. See, this is what I am talking about when I say suspend the freedom of the press. None of these lying rags deserves to be called news. I can live with that fallout.

Clocker
01-25-2018, 10:12 PM
Nothing wrong with that.


There is for the alt-right voters who took him at his word that he would deport 12 million illegals. ;)

elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 10:22 PM
Not at all. He did the right way. Put the responsibility where it belongs. That is why it is an issue today - he expected the lazy. lying., Good for nothing bastard in Congress to do their jobs. Ha!
Not one them is worth a good dump.

That is not what he did.

The reason why this issue has shot to the front is because he tasked Congress with finding a solution. Then when he asked to see their solutions referred to shithole countries. Then finally, since no one really knows what he will sign off on, Congress begged him to put something out and we have this. He's flipped on this issue a bunch of times going back to his deport them and they're rapists comments that launched his candidacy.

As far as immigration. On the whole you and I agree on basically everything.

Tom
01-25-2018, 10:44 PM
Well then, the thing for congress to do is get off their worthless asses, write a bill they feel is fair and submit it.
He gave them until March.

So far nothing relevant has been put on paper.
Just more double talk by a useless congress and a totally worthless UpChuck Schumer, the liar extraordinaire.

Tom
01-25-2018, 10:47 PM
There is for the alt-right voters who took him at his word that he would deport 12 million illegals. ;)

Then they need to grow up.
Anyone with half a brain ( this leaves out democrats) knows you have to be realistic and not unbending. Truman promised unconditional surrender from Japan and gave in for less than that.

There are still a lot who can be deported.

elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 10:47 PM
Well then, the thing for congress to do is get off their worthless asses, write a bill they feel is fair and submit it.
He gave them until March.

So far nothing relevant has been put on paper.
Just more double talk by a useless congress and a totally worthless UpChuck Schumer, the liar extraordinaire.

You ever ask a woman what she wants for dinner? That's what happened here. ;)

Tom
01-25-2018, 10:49 PM
It is not politically correct to ask that.
Women are now sexless carbon based units who are 100% our equals and deserve absolutely no special respect, protection, or reward.

Life a collie.

JustRalph
01-25-2018, 11:09 PM
From what I read the so called amnesty comes after 10-12 years of doing a checklist of things right.

How many will do that?

elysiantraveller
01-25-2018, 11:17 PM
From what I read the so called amnesty comes after 10-12 years of doing a checklist of things right.

How many will do that?

That's for citizenship.

The 1.8 million is for illegals who could have registered for DACA and failed to do so. So he expanded it.

OntheRail
01-25-2018, 11:17 PM
I think Trump should address the Birth Right Issue.... No other county grants citizenship to non citizens. That would deter the further on-slot of illegals.

boxcar
01-25-2018, 11:23 PM
From what I read the so called amnesty comes after 10-12 years of doing a checklist of things right.

How many will do that?

Not only that but the ones who are here -- who are squatting in our country as uninvited guests should be very thoroughly vetted. If for no other reason because giving them a free pass is just downright unfair to all the naturalized citizens who played by the rules to attain to that status. Letting in all those illegals is a huge slap in the face to all law-abiding naturalized citizens.
It surely manifests the duplicity and double-mindedness of our government!

zico20
01-26-2018, 12:09 AM
I think Trump should address the Birth Right Issue.... No other county grants citizenship to non citizens. That would deter the further on-slot of illegals.

He can't, it is a constitutional right, based on the 14th amendment. Anyone born here is automatically a citizen. It would take an amendment to the constitution.

U.S. Constitution › 14th Amendment
14th Amendment
The Fourteenth Amendment addresses many aspects of citizenship and the rights of citizens. The most commonly used -- and frequently litigated -- phrase in the amendment is "equal protection of the laws", which figures prominently in a wide variety of landmark cases, including Brown v. Board of Education (racial discrimination), Roe v. Wade (reproductive rights), Bush v. Gore (election recounts), Reed v. Reed (gender discrimination), and University of California v. Bakke (racial quotas in education). See more...

Amendment XIV
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the law.

OntheRail
01-26-2018, 12:44 AM
It would take an amendment to the constitution. Yep it's been done before and Trump could be the only one that could get it done again... on Birth Right to Non Citizens getting rid of the anchor babies in chain immigration. .:coffee:

Clocker
01-26-2018, 01:30 AM
Trump could be the only one that could get it done again

Not a snowflake's chance in hell. Among other problems, it would need 67 Senators to vote for it and 38 states to ratify it. Trump is lucky to get 51 Senators to agree with him what month it is right now. By any count, I'd say at least 20 states are solid blue and would oppose it.

Clocker
01-26-2018, 01:33 AM
You ever ask a woman what she wants for dinner?

She would say she didn't care, anything you pick is fine with her. But if you don't pick the one and only thing she is thinking of, you are dead meat. :faint:

tucker6
01-26-2018, 07:52 AM
She would say she didn't care, anything you pick is fine with her. But if you don't pick the one and only thing she is thinking of, you are dead meat. :faint:

ain't that the freaking truth

chadk66
01-26-2018, 09:30 AM
anything that has been discussed/proposed etc in the past doesn't matter right now. Donald is driving the machine. It'll all be done as Donald sees fit. This isn't obozo in the white house now. Two things that also may come out of this is an end to DACA type wrangling in the future and and end to anchor babies. The anchor baby issue will no doubt surface somewhere along the negotiating line.

Tom
01-26-2018, 10:39 AM
She would say she didn't care, anything you pick is fine with her. But if you don't pick the one and only thing she is thinking of, you are dead meat. :faint:

Waiter: What you like, ma'am?
Her: I guess I'll have the Surf and turf.
Me: Guess again!

Clocker
01-26-2018, 01:35 PM
The 1.8 million is for illegals who could have registered for DACA and failed to do so. So he expanded it.

Very poor negotiating tactics for the master of the art of the deal. The original estimate was that there were about 800K Dreamers. Now 1.8 million is the floor for future negotiations with the Democrats, and any compromise will have to be well above that number.

woodtoo
01-26-2018, 01:47 PM
The very stable negotiator is busy explaining to Globalgucks in Davos how trade works. When he returns he will have time to explain how immigration will work
to the democrats and rinos, until then the dreamers can continue with their dreams and nightmares. May I suggest they also continue on their path to legal immigrant status. There is no time like the present.

elysiantraveller
01-26-2018, 01:49 PM
The very stable negotiator is busy explaining to Globalgucks in Davos how trade works. When he returns he will have time to explain how immigration will work
to the democrats and rinos, until then the dreamers can continue with their dreams and nightmares. May I suggest they also continue on their path to legal immigrant status. There is no time like the present.

Did you listen to him at Davos?

I did. I thought he sounded fine but he said "free trade" 11x that I counted.

ElKabong
01-26-2018, 01:50 PM
Breitbarts (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/25/white-house-proposal-extends-amnesty-for-1-8-million-illegals-in-exchange-for-25-billion-for-wall-end-of-chain-migration-visa-lottery/) headline not mine...

:lol::lol:

Didn't see that one coming. :rolleyes:

How are you immigration hawks feeling?

Don't like it one bit. This was the biggest issue for me in 2016 and he's walking it back. Hopefully it's a negotiation ploy / tactic somehow, some way. But it looks like he's going to reward people from other countries for break the law.

The issue, to me, in regards to illegal immigration, is they are importing poverty. Every time I tried here to address this point by point, both republican and dems on the board dig in on their talking points. The moment we take politics out of this, we can finally address the illegal immigration problem. Bottom line, Obama was no worse on this issue than Reagan was. And now trump is going down that path.

elysiantraveller
01-26-2018, 01:59 PM
Don't like it one bit. This was the biggest issue for me in 2016 and he's walking it back. Hopefully it's a negotiation ploy / tactic somehow, some way. But it looks like he's going to reward people from other countries for break the law.

The issue, to me, in regards to illegal immigration, is they are importing poverty. Every time I tried here to address this point by point, both republican and dems on the board dig in on their talking points. The moment we take politics out of this, we can finally address the illegal immigration problem. Bottom line, Obama was no worse on this issue than Reagan was. And now trump is going down that path.

:eek::eek::eek:

Oh my god...

A real thought out position on an issue? Get out of here that doesn't belong.

FWIW I don't really disagree with the White House's position here. I would allow chain migration for parents as well but that's about it.

What I don't understand though is how we can have 800,000 dreamers in this country, the White House adds a MILLION to that number, offers them amnesty, and that's not considered a wholesale sellout but the "10ft higher," "Mexico will pay for it," and "bus them up and ship them out" crowd.

woodtoo
01-26-2018, 02:03 PM
Did you listen to him at Davos?

I did. I thought he sounded fine but he said "free trade" 11x that I counted.

HE said free trade 11 times:pound: WOW!!!!

He also said Hilary belongs in jail.:eek:

Clocker
01-26-2018, 02:15 PM
What I don't understand though is how we can have 800,000 dreamers in this country, the White House adds a MILLION to that number, offers them amnesty, and that's not considered a wholesale sellout but the "10ft higher," "Mexico will pay for it," and "bus them up and ship them out" crowd.

Trump's offer also includes "limited" chain migration for all those newly minted Dreamers, supposedly limited to their "nuclear families".

Clocker
01-26-2018, 02:20 PM
HE said free trade 11 times:pound: WOW!!!!



Either ignoring or ignorant of the fact that free trade and protective tariffs are polar opposites.

tucker6
01-26-2018, 02:46 PM
Either ignoring or ignorant of the fact that free trade and protective tariffs are polar opposites.

Wat rump is talking abut is fair trade. Sometimes you need protective tariffs to get to free and fair trade.

Clocker
01-26-2018, 03:13 PM
Sometimes you need protective tariffs to get to free and fair trade.

Let's at least be honest about the facts. Free trade means without restrictions. Protective tariffs are restrictions imposed to get a result that one party defines as "fair".

Consumers who have to pay those tariffs might argue about how "fair" they are. As would workers who lose their jobs because of those tariffs.

tucker6
01-26-2018, 03:24 PM
Let's at least be honest about the facts. Free trade means without restrictions. Protective tariffs are restrictions imposed to get a result that one party defines as "fair".

Consumers who have to pay those tariffs might argue about how "fair" they are. As would workers who lose their jobs because of those tariffs.

It's called breaking a few eggs to make an omelet. Sometimes an innocent bystander (American worker) must suffer in order for the greater good to be achieved. There is nothing wrong with punitive tariffs if there has been unfair trade. If you can't protect yourself, what need do we have for laws and national sovereignty? I've read the articles on washing machines and solar panels. To my economist eyes, there was a fair amount of unfair trade going on. I am a proponent of free trade, but the other side needs to conform to trade laws.

zico20
01-26-2018, 04:08 PM
Let's at least be honest about the facts. Free trade means without restrictions. Protective tariffs are restrictions imposed to get a result that one party defines as "fair".

Consumers who have to pay those tariffs might argue about how "fair" they are. As would workers who lose their jobs because of those tariffs.

Trump will bring back more manufacturing jobs that will offset the job losses in those fields. NAFTA must be redone, we have a 68 billion dollar deficit with Mexico.

elysiantraveller
01-26-2018, 05:13 PM
Trump will bring back more manufacturing jobs that will offset the job losses in those fields. NAFTA must be redone, we have a 68 billion dollar deficit with Mexico.

So? Explain to me how that's a bad thing?

Just gonna leave this here..

https://youtu.be/zv5SiQpG6sg

HalvOnHorseracing
01-26-2018, 05:44 PM
Putting tariffs on goods from Mexico is a bad idea for lots of reasons, most of which have been mentioned. The first three things I'd worry about are, (1) losing some of the imported fresh fruits and vegetables we get from Mexico in the winter, (2) losing oil from Mexico, our third biggest source of imported oil, and (3) prices for goods assembled in the maquiladora plants will rise, stressing consumer budgets in the U.S. I'm not convinced manufacturing plants would board up the Mexico plant and move to Texas. It's more likely the price of cars will just go up.

The tariff thing reminds me of how CHRB (and other tracks) do business. Let's raise the take and assume handle will stay the same.

I don't know if this is true or not, but one of my friends who lives in Mexico said all the Mexican eggplants are grown for export because Mexicans don't use them in their cooking. I don't think I ever saw anything with eggplant on a restaurant menu, and I ate at a lot of restaurants so he might be right.

It's also the case that Mexico will allow USDA to inspect farms that ship to the U.S., which I think is a pretty big deal. I see a lot more stuff from Chile coming north during the winter months, but I don't know how much I trust their produce, especially since USDA isn't as prominent in Chile.

Clocker
01-26-2018, 07:14 PM
Putting tariffs on goods from Mexico is a bad idea for lots of reasons, most of which have been mentioned. The first three things I'd worry about are, (1) losing some of the imported fresh fruits and vegetables we get from Mexico in the winter, (2) losing oil from Mexico, our third biggest source of imported oil, and (3) prices for goods assembled in the maquiladora plants will rise, stressing consumer budgets in the U.S. I'm not convinced manufacturing plants would board up the Mexico plant and move to Texas. It's more likely the price of cars will just go up.


A lot of the US brand cars made in Mexico are not aimed at the US market. They tend to be smaller than most Americans want, and they are also aimed at the non-North American export market. Many other countries have lower tariffs on cars made in Mexico than would be the case for the same car made in the US.

Tom
01-26-2018, 10:51 PM
Trump's offer also includes "limited" chain migration for all those newly minted Dreamers, supposedly limited to their "nuclear families".

Now that I disagree with. Dream on.
You get one scoop of ice cream, and that is all.
Who do you thing you are?

HalvOnHorseracing
01-27-2018, 04:35 PM
Now that I disagree with. Dream on.
You get one scoop of ice cream, and that is all.
Who do you thing you are?

That can't be a real picture.

boxcar
01-27-2018, 04:41 PM
That can't be a real picture.

Never been to Wally World to take in some of the wonderful sights, eh? :coffee:

Clocker
01-27-2018, 07:24 PM
Trump will bring back more manufacturing jobs that will offset the job losses in those fields.

The tariffs decline annually and go away in 4 years. Who is going to build a new factory in the US based on that?

A green-technology research firm estimates that tariffs could cost up to 88,000 U.S. jobs related to installing solar-power systems.


U.S. manufacturing of solar cells employed only about 1,300 people at its recent peak in 2012, according to the trade commission. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-approves-tariffs-solar-panels/

Lemon Drop Husker
01-27-2018, 07:35 PM
https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/956605748003459077


It is officially called Family Reunification according to the worthless left.

Get in step with your own crapdom.

Lemon Drop Husker
01-27-2018, 07:38 PM
That can't be a real picture.

Yes. It is.

It is actually Chuck Schumer holding a golden staff beating children.

reckless
01-27-2018, 09:18 PM
A lot of the US brand cars made in Mexico are not aimed at the US market. They tend to be smaller than most Americans want, and they are also aimed at the non-North American export market. Many other countries have lower tariffs on cars made in Mexico than would be the case for the same car made in the US.

If these US branded cars made in Mexico are not aimed for the US consumer what's your point? Not built for the American market, not made for the American market but you say Trump is clueless because of his position on ... tariffs? ... NAFTA?

If it's either of those two reasons, then there should be no big deal where they make and sell the cars now does it? The car manufacturer could also make any deal they want with any country they wish to do business with. Once again, that's simply eco 101.

Ford, GM, and others could sell all these cars to whomever they wish wherever they are. No one is stopping them, but you know that already.

reckless
01-27-2018, 09:25 PM
That can't be a real picture.

It wasn't a real picture, halvy ... there were only 4 scoops of ice cream. :lol::lol:

Tom
01-27-2018, 10:20 PM
That can't be a real picture.

Honest - it is!!!

Clocker
01-27-2018, 10:50 PM
If these US branded cars made in Mexico are not aimed for the US consumer what's your point? Not built for the American market, not made for the American market but you say Trump is clueless because of his position on ... tariffs? ... NAFTA?

I don't have a clue what this or the rest of your post means. I would point out that I said nothing about Trump or NAFTA in my post.

What I said was one reason companies like Ford build cars in Mexico for export outside of North America is because in most countries overseas the import duties on a Ford built in Mexico are lower than the import duties would be on the same car built in the US.

elysiantraveller
01-27-2018, 11:37 PM
I don't have a clue what this or the rest of your post means. I would point out that I said nothing about Trump or NAFTA in my post.

What I said was one reason companies like Ford build cars in Mexico for export outside of North America is because in most countries overseas the import duties on a Ford built in Mexico are lower than the import duties would be on the same car built in the US.

How is it that all these Trump supporters missed his comments on NAFTA and the TPP at Davos?

Suddenly he's way more open to these agreements. :eek:

Clocker
01-27-2018, 11:59 PM
How is it that all these Trump supporters missed his comments on NAFTA and the TPP at Davos?

Suddenly he's way more open to these agreements. :eek:

Word is he stayed on script in Davos. We will have to see what happens when he gets back to tweeting regularly.

woodtoo
01-28-2018, 01:41 PM
How is it that all these Trump supporters missed his comments on NAFTA and the TPP at Davos?

Suddenly he's way more open to these agreements. :eek:
You are not capable(yet) of understanding President Trump (this is why you asks so many questions)
Once the Canadians drop the 67 genders rule and Trudeau changes his socks we can get down to business in meeting #7 set to resume about now.