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JustRalph
01-25-2018, 12:56 AM
Pretty good class this time....I canít argue with any

kingfin66
01-25-2018, 01:51 AM
I am disappointed yet again that Edgar Martinez did not get in. There are arguments to be made both ways. He fell just 20 votes short in a big class of inductees. I believe that he will get in next year on his final year on the ballot. If he does I will be taking my first, and perhaps only, trip to Cooperstown and Saratoga.

ElKabong
01-25-2018, 03:19 AM
Like mad dog said today, when did Trevor Hoffman ever make a profound effect in a big game? I wouldn't have voted him in.

Same for Edgar ( no offense kingpin), the bar for a DH should be incredibly high. Much higher than he's reached imho. Glad he didn't get in, same for schilling. Vlad, I could take him or leave him.

barahona44
01-25-2018, 10:02 AM
Guerrero should have been in the HOF last year.He had three problems:.1)he spent his best years in Montreal, 2) he was very quiet and rarely blew his own horn and 3) he spent his best years in Montreal.:). It's front page news and the lead story on tv here in the Dominican Republic as 'Vladi' is only the third Dominican (and first position player) in the Hall.And if you ask me, he should be in there for this at-bat alone. :cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoAdY3uP9c0

ElKabong
01-25-2018, 02:48 PM
Mostly one dimensional player, IMO..That's not a hall of famed to me. Granted my best recollection of him in the field was near the end of his career as a ranger when he embarrassed himself in the field vs San Fran in the World Series. He was gawd awful. But I do recall him in Anaheim and I wasn't impressed with him in the field then either

Really good hitter though. No doubt

JustRalph
01-25-2018, 04:00 PM
Mostly one dimensional player, IMO..That's not a hall of famed to me. Granted my best recollection of him in the field was near the end of his career as a ranger when he embarrassed himself in the field vs San Fran in the World Series. He was gawd awful. But I do recall him in Anaheim and I wasn't impressed with him in the field then either

Really good hitter though. No doubt

I met him (Vladi) at Camden yards before a game. I think it was 2010 while with the Angels. He was meeting some folks in a suite next to ours and got lured into our suite after. He was very nice and put up with lots of pictures etc. he complained that he wasnít starting anymore and that his body had given out.

Later on we were down near the field and he was in the outfield loosening up. I swear, to watch him run was painful. He obviously had some serious problems but his stick still kept him in the game. He did get to pinch hit that day and hit a ball that got caught above the fence in center robbing him of a homer. I always thought he was a gamer. Always 100%

Marshall Bennett
01-25-2018, 04:31 PM
Hard to understand Roger Clemens getting the number of votes he did. He's a disgrace to the game and always will be. :ThmbDown:

reckless
01-25-2018, 04:33 PM
Hard to understand Roger Clemens getting the number of votes he did. He's a disgrace to the game and always will be. :ThmbDown:

I think it's just a matter of time before the cheaters and druggies wind up in the Cooperstown. Sad to say.

MutuelClerk
01-25-2018, 11:57 PM
If David Ortiz gets in the HOF before Edgar Martinez it's a joke. Not many players in the career .300 .400 .500 club. Edgar is one of them. ( BA OBP% SLG%). I believe Edgar belongs.

Love Vlad. His bat deserves to be there. His arm deserves to be there. Not that great in the field I agree.

I keep reading about the case for Fred McGriff. I'm beginning to buy in. If Chipper would have hit behind him instead of vice versa might of helped the Crime dog's case.

Relievers of this era. I'm not so sure. 55-70 IP's per season. Too specialized for me.

One of the " druggies" " cheaters " I believe deserve it. Barry Bonds. Was HOF material before he cheated. Any guy receiving a IP with the bases loaded is pretty special.

ElKabong
01-27-2018, 02:07 AM
Clemens and bonds were HOF worthy prior to juicing. I'd vote them in, in their last qualifying year just to let em sweat.... Both were despicable people in their own right (bonds off field, roger on the field). The rest of the juicers just don't belong IMO.

PaceAdvantage
01-27-2018, 04:33 PM
Clemens and bonds were HOF worthy prior to juicing. I'd vote them in, in their last qualifying year just to let em sweat.... Both were despicable people in their own right (bonds off field, roger on the field). The rest of the juicers just don't belong IMO.I'd probably vote them in too...Clemens definitely...

thaskalos
01-27-2018, 05:28 PM
I can understand a baseball player who resorts to juicing because he is trying to keep his job in the game...but I can't see why a player, who has already reached Hall-Of-Fame status while "clean", would need to start juicing. Why did Bonds need to juice...so he could hit the ball 500 feet instead of 450? IMO...there should be no distinction made for the "pre-juice" accomplishments of a player. Either keep ALL the juicers out of the Hall...or let them all in.

Marshall Bennett
01-27-2018, 06:38 PM
Seems to cheapen the value of the award. Same with gamblers or any other activity unprofessional to the game.

ElKabong
01-28-2018, 03:08 AM
I can understand a baseball player who resorts to juicing because he is trying to keep his job in the game...but I can't see why a player, who has already reached Hall-Of-Fame status while "clean", would need to start juicing. Why did Bonds need to juice...so he could hit the ball 500 feet instead of 450? IMO...there should be no distinction made for the "pre-juice" accomplishments of a player. Either keep ALL the juicers out of the Hall...or let them all in.

My two cents worth... Bonds, it was said, was very jealous of McGwire and Sammy sooser during the 1998 HR race. Bonds was worlds better than those two guys yet he felt he was being ignored. Thus, he juiced

Roger.... Think of sandy Koufax in his farewell to baseball speech in 66. He was taking cortisone shots left and right to ease the pain just to get to the next start. I don't approve, but I can see why pitchers would try to juice if they thought it would ease the pain.... Now that I'm older I see the nonsense in it, but pitchers live start to start.

What roger did was wrong. Plain and simple. But he was as good as any SP I ever saw before juicing. I just can't deny his greatness, or his embarrassing on field behavior at times.

We teach our kids in chess classes not to cheat.... Only desperate, less than competent players cheat, we preach and preach. If only society was as acceptable of the advise....

thaskalos
01-28-2018, 03:43 AM
My two cents worth... Bonds, it was said, was very jealous of McGwire and Sammy sooser during the 1998 HR race. Bonds was worlds better than those two guys yet he felt he was being ignored. Thus, he juiced

Roger.... Think of sandy Koufax in his farewell to baseball speech in 66. He was taking cortisone shots left and right to ease the pain just to get to the next start. I don't approve, but I can see why pitchers would try to juice if they thought it would ease the pain.... Now that I'm older I see the nonsense in it, but pitchers live start to start.

What roger did was wrong. Plain and simple. But he was as good as any SP I ever saw before juicing. I just can't deny his greatness, or his embarrassing on field behavior at times.

We teach our kids in chess classes not to cheat.... Only desperate, less than competent players cheat, we preach and preach. If only society was as acceptable of the advise....

The unfortunate thing is that there is no clear indication of when Roger Clemens started juicing. But there is irrefutable evidence that steroids were a part of MLB long before the drug problem received headline attention. For instance, former MLB pitcher Tom House, who also became an author and pitching coach, admitted that he "used steroids that they wouldn't give to a horse"...during his playing career. Performance-enhancing drug use was RAMPANT during his playing career, House said...and he played from 1971-1978! To quote Tom House:

"At least six or seven pitchers on every team were at least experimental users of steroids and growth hormone. In fact, after losses, the players would frequently joke that they had been out-milligrammed, rather than beaten."

Where is the real proof that Roger was juicing only during the latter part of his playing career?

ElKabong
01-28-2018, 11:27 PM
Thask...When Clemens pitched for the longhorns I thought he was the best pitcher in the game, save Steve Carlton. He was that good. He came from a modest upbringing, he wouldn't have had the expendable cash for PEDs which were quite expensive in the early 80s.

The University wouldn't have funded PEDs for baseball players in that era. Football? Yeah maybe. But not baseball. We led the NCAA in attendance for baseball a few times back then but that program barely covered budget.

My strong suggestion is he didn't juice until he had a few MLB paycheck under his belt. Can I prove it? No. I can't prove a lot of things either but once in awhile I can add two and two.

I may also add, his hyper aggressive (on the mound and in the dugout ) temperament didn't go sour until he was in the league for a couple of years. Back then, that was a good indicator of roid use

PaceAdvantage
02-01-2018, 05:16 PM
The unfortunate thing is that there is no clear indication of when Roger Clemens started juicing. But there is irrefutable evidence that steroids were a part of MLB long before the drug problem received headline attention. For instance, former MLB pitcher Tom House, who also became an author and pitching coach, admitted that he "used steroids that they wouldn't give to a horse"...during his playing career. Performance-enhancing drug use was RAMPANT during his playing career, House said...and he played from 1971-1978! To quote Tom House:

"At least six or seven pitchers on every team were at least experimental users of steroids and growth hormone. In fact, after losses, the players would frequently joke that they had been out-milligrammed, rather than beaten."

Where is the real proof that Roger was juicing only during the latter part of his playing career?Why this surprises anyone, I don't know.

Steroids have been around since the 50s and 60s....that's why I have written in the past the things I have about horses in the 70s...you know, the year we had three TC winners...and Secretariat...could it be PE drugs were starting to find their way into racing during the 70s?

A lot of people refuse to believe it...but I think it's not only entirely possible, but quite probable...

So baseball players in the 70s experimenting with it...totally believable...

thaskalos
02-01-2018, 05:33 PM
Thask...When Clemens pitched for the longhorns I thought he was the best pitcher in the game, save Steve Carlton. He was that good. He came from a modest upbringing, he wouldn't have had the expendable cash for PEDs which were quite expensive in the early 80s.

The University wouldn't have funded PEDs for baseball players in that era. Football? Yeah maybe. But not baseball. We led the NCAA in attendance for baseball a few times back then but that program barely covered budget.

My strong suggestion is he didn't juice until he had a few MLB paycheck under his belt. Can I prove it? No. I can't prove a lot of things either but once in awhile I can add two and two.

I may also add, his hyper aggressive (on the mound and in the dugout ) temperament didn't go sour until he was in the league for a couple of years. Back then, that was a good indicator of roid use

ElKabong...I honestly can't see the pro-Clemens point that you are trying to make. If, as you state above, you feel that there indeed was a "good indication" that Clemens was using steroids after being in the league for "a couple of years", then...how can you say that he was HOF-worthy before his steroid use? Do a couple of great years make for a Hall-Of-Fame career?

lamboguy
02-02-2018, 08:57 AM
my mother was in the hospital in the oncology wing and Roger Clemons was in the very next room. his kids came to visit him when he was in the hospital and i saw him with an elbow the size of a football. 2 weeks later he was pitching a game as an over 2-1 favorite. i bet the other team and Clemons got belted around in the 3 innings he pitched. i won my bet! but the opposite side of the coin happened to me years before with Dennis Eckersly. i saw him on a Saturday night in a bar called Daisy Buchannon's. at 2:00 a.m. the man was completely smashed and he is listed to pitch against the Twins (who could hit a baseball back then) at 1:00 p.m. Sunday. i bet on the Twins, the Eck pitched the whole game and won 2-1.

Valuist
02-05-2018, 01:37 PM
Why this surprises anyone, I don't know.

Steroids have been around since the 50s and 60s....that's why I have written in the past the things I have about horses in the 70s...you know, the year we had three TC winners...and Secretariat...could it be PE drugs were starting to find their way into racing during the 70s?

A lot of people refuse to believe it...but I think it's not only entirely possible, but quite probable...

So baseball players in the 70s experimenting with it...totally believable...

Steroids were around but nowhere near mainstream. It was basically bodybuilders and some Olympic athletes. You didn't see MLB players with legs the size of tree trunks in the 1970s. I wasn't following racing in the 70s so I can't really comment, but I know we used to see horses run on 10-14 days rest frequently, and some horses would run 20 times in a year during the eighties. With drugs far more rampant, we don't see that anymore.